In what could well be a premonitory moment, they evacuated the Pentagon when the Richmond earthquake hit. The Capitol was also cleared out, for fear its pylons would crash down upon the heads of our shaken solons. Perhaps it was His way of deflating the hubris of our Washington elite, as they giddily proclaim of the “victory in Libya” narrative that has taken hold in the Imperial City even before America’s housebroken “rebels” take power.
As the rebels march into Tripoli, and Gadhafi is nowhere to be found, the unelected National Transitional Council (NTC), which claims to be the only legitimate government, has already issued a draft “constitution,” one replete with references to all sorts of “rights” – free speech, assembly, democratic elections, etc. There’s just one little provision – stated right up front, in Part 1, Article 1 – that could throw a monkey-wrench into the new regime’s public relations campaign. It reads: “Islam is the Religion of the State, and the principal source of legislation is Islamic Jurisprudence (Sharia).”
As Lachlan Markay, over at the Heritage Foundation, notes:
“Under this constitution, in other words, Islam is law. That makes other phrases such as ‘there shall be no crime or penalty except by virtue of the law’ and ‘Judges shall be independent, subject to no other authority but law and conscience’ a bit more ominous.”
That isn’t the only thing that’s ominous about the rebel “victory.” You’ll recall that little matter of the murder of their commander-in-chief, Gen. Abdel Fatah Younes, who was pulled out of his tent, along with two aides, and shot – no, not by Gadhafi loyalists, but by the rebels, who claimed he was a “double agent” and a “traitor.” Oddly enough – or, perhaps, not so oddly – his “mysterious” death was prematurely announced by the rebel media outlet al-Bawaba a few days before it actually happened: Younes denied he was dead, but his fate was apparently sealed from that point. A few days later he was arrested and detained, and shortly after that he really was dead. While the NTC denies it had anything to do with it, and now even claim the judges who issued the arrest warrant had no authority to do so, what happened is clear enough: the real rebel leadership – not the NTC Potemkin village of civilian and Western-oriented “intellectuals” – ordered his execution, and their orders were carried out.
The question is now: who will be their next victims? The NTC established an “internal security” force long before reaching the gates of Tripoli: their thugs took care of Younes, and they’ll take care of whomever gets in the way of the NATO-crats’ Benghazi-based sock puppets. The Islamists with links to al-Qaeda – they are, in effect, al-Qaeda’s Libyan franchise – are concentrated in the NTC’s “military wing.” In any revolutionary situation, it’s the “military wing” that usually has the most clout.
Next on the outs: Libya’s monarchists, who want to restore one of two pretenders to the “throne,” The one with the most support, Crown Prince Sayyid Muhammad al-Rida bin Sayyid Hasan ar-Rida al-Mahdi al-Senoussi, is active in Libyan exile circles and says he’s ready to serve. A rival claim is being pursued by Prince Idris bin Abdullah al-Senussi, who has the advantage of a shorter name – although maybe in Libya size matters in more areas than we might imagine.
Be that as it may, the monarchists are calling for a return to Libya’s 1951 Constitution, which differs from the current draft on a crucial point – religion. While both state “Islam is the religion of the state,” the NTC draft goes much further, institutionalizing Sharia law as “the principal source of legislation.”
No doubt the Libyans will go through the sham of “democratic” elections, although you can bet there’ll be no Green Party on the ballot. In reality, however, the outcome is being decided in advance. After all, why bother having elections to a legislative body if the laws have already been written?
The resemblance of all this to what happened in Iraq is eerie: the first public face of the Iraqi opposition was Ahmad Chalabi, the trickster-embezzler and “hero-in-error,” who funneled fake “intelligence” to the Bush White House and was paid to lie us into war. Chalabi never talked religion, but only about “democracy” and “liberty.” Chalabi’s group, the Iraqi National Congress (INC), was swept aside in the elections, in which the Islamist parties divided up the vast majority of votes. Chalabi made his peace with them and was appointed to high office: today Iraq is Iran’s best friend in the region, and is making sympathetic noises at poor beleaguered Bashar al-Assad of Syria, an Iranian ally, while Washington demands his ouster.
Can we expect a repeat in Libya, where – as in Iraq – a secular “socialist” authoritarian regime is overthrown, and the ostensibly secular elements of the opposition quickly go over to the Islamists? Such a question must surely have occurred to our all-wise policymakers in Washington: no doubt it was quickly brushed aside in order to facilitate the Obama administration’s harebrained scheme to hijack the “Arab Spring” and turn it into the engine of Western imperialism in the region.
This seems to have “succeeded” only in the most superficial sense: the Egyptians are already at loggerheads with the Israelis, and it isn’t over in Bahrain – although perhaps giving Cairo something to worry about on Egypt’s Western frontier is Washington’s way of reducing pressure on its most important regional ally. (It works out that way, regardless of Washington’s intention.)
As many have noted, we are facing yet another “Mission Accomplished!” moment, with a “victory” hailed, this time, by the more rabid Obama-ites. War fever blows particularly hot over at MSNBC, whose full-throated cheerleading is surely a major embarrassment for “progressives” who still cling to their anti-interventionist principles. Rachel Maddow declaring that war skeptics have been “proven wrong” by the apparent taking of Tripoli is like Jonah Goldberg hailing Iraqis “dancing for joy” at the “liberation” of their country by the US. You’ll have to dig way back in the Antiwar.com archives to find that one, but isn’t it downright weird how a Maddow can turn into a Goldberg?
Get ready for the downing-of-the-statue moment US psy-war strategists no doubt have been planning for months.
Surely there’s a suitably gargantuan statue of Gadhafi readily available,
the toppling of which will provide a suitable level of drama for the
cameras. The parallels with Iraq are coming fast and furious: soon we’ll
have photos of Gadhafi in chains, or perhaps being dragged before the
International Criminal Court in the Hague, for a dose of victor’s “justice.”
Although I rather doubt they’ll risk keeping him alive long enough
to stand trial: the old monster knows too much about his fellow monsters
in the capitals of Europe and the Americas to spare him a fate similar
to that visited upon at least one of his sons. Kangaroo
When Gadhafi took power in a 1969 military coup, the treatment he handed out to the Libyan royal family is quite different from what he and his family can expect at the hands of the NATO-crats and their rebel proxies. King Idris was in Turkey at the time, and was sentenced to death by the “People’s Revolutionary Court” in absentia, but the Crown Prince, who was left behind with the rest of the Libyan royals, was merely placed under house arrest. As one pro-royalist account reports:
“In 1984 Qaddafi released the Royal Family from house arrest and tossed them onto the street. The family lived for a period in a cabin on a public beach. Crown Prince Sayyid Hassan, suffering from poor health, was allowed to travel with most of the family to London for medical treatment, where they settled. The Crown Prince died in 1992, and was succeeded by his son, Prince Sayyid Muhammad bin Sayyid Hasan ar-Rida al-Mahdi as-Senussi.”
One wonders if the Prince and his supporters will call for the same merciful treatment to be granted to Gadhafi’s family as was given to his.
Somehow, I doubt it.
With Western “private military contractors,” i.e. the US government’s international network of spooks and thugs-for-hire, crawling all over that country, Libya is already under military occupation by the West. Now we’ll have to see what kind of an “international” façade they can manage to put on it. Meanwhile, it’s only a matter of time before Maddow’s victory lap seems more than a bit premature.
How long before the goals of the NATO-crats and the Islamist radicals they’ve unleashed explode in violence? How long before the rebels take out another one of their own top officials? How long before we get the real bill – not the measly $1 billion being touted as the cost. Mind you, that’s just the initial bill, and doesn’t include the other costs buried deep in the “black budget” we aren’t allowed to even know about, let alone question. America owns Libya now, and you can be sure we’ll be paying top dollar for it. Empires cost money, and most of us ordinary folk will wind up getting the check, while others feast on the spoils.
Juan Cole derides the oil angle as a “conspiracy theory”: funny, he didn’t hesitate in blaming Greedy Capitalists for the plundering of Iraq’s oil, now did he? But of course the Libyan rebels are already threatening Chinese, Russian, and Brazilian oil concerns with expulsion from the country for not recognizing the new government in advance of their still-to-be-confirmed victory. Whom does Professor Cole expect will take their places?
This is “progressive” politics, Juan Cole-style: an international campaign to install crony capitalism by force. Cole once made the mistake of citing me as a source, and had to do penance by allowing some incredibly pretentious fellow professor to post a long screed on his blog explaining just why Justin Raimondo is a reactionary tool of the capitalist class and no one should ever listen to a thing he says. Look who’s the reactionary tool of the capitalist class now!
To see Professor Cole on Maddow’s war-fest – smirking as he exulted in the advance of the rebel army – was to see, super-imposed on the television screen, the ghostly figure of Bill Kristol smirking his way through an interview on Fox News, hailing the “great victory” of the “Iraqi people.”
This is really one of the most interesting aspects of this whole story, aside from the geopolitics: what motivates ideologues of one sort or another to take this or that position when it comes to war. For most of these groups, except the neocons and the pacifists, there is no principled reason for their stance either for or against. While the neocons are always for war all the time, and pacifists are opposed, most other groups are positioned according to their prejudices and the political opportunities of the moment.
Will a war “unite” the nation, and make people forget how miserable they are – even if only for a few moments? Will it keep the pressure on the Federal Reserve to keep printing that funny-money? That’s enough for war cheerleaders Maddow and Cole, and their dwindling fan club on the left. Besides, they’re having fun getting back at their Republican rivals by playing the “patriot” card to their advantage for once: Maddow’s obsession with gays in the military turns out to be have real practical application here. Let’s hear it for equal opportunity imperialism.
Let the pro-war “progressives” have their moment of faux-glory: let them celebrate their Pyrrhic “victory” to their heart’s content. If history is any indication, it’s going to be a very short-lived party.
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
I want to thank all those who sent letters of support in response to my column on the FBI’s absurd contention that Antiwar.com is “a threat to National Security” and that webmaster Eric Garris and I are “agents of a foreign power.” There’s just one foreign power involved here, as we libertarians know, and it’s in Washington D.C., –where they’ve usurped the Constitution, taken over the government, and are using law enforcement agencies as their political police.
I have to say, however, that I am quite shaken by this pronouncement on the FBI’s part, so shaken that I have decided to abjure traveling by plane, or on any government-run train, after having been so accused. After all, can you imagine the following conversation:
“Hi, I’m a Threat to National Security and an agent of a foreign power – do you mind if I sit here?”
“Well, uh, gee – I don’t know …”
Under the circumstances, I am forced to cancel my Antiwar.com Autumn Campus Tour, which I’ve had in the works for a while: just like last year, I planned to take our message to campuses and other venues all across the country. Until the FBI issues an official retraction, however, the risk of being hauled off an airplane and subjected to god knows what kind of treatment by the infamous TSA, is too great. Therefore, all speaking engagements which require me to travel any great distance are now cancelled. Please keep in touch, though: if we can force the FBI to issue a retraction, I’ll be back on the road again.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013
- Boycott Israel? – May 9th, 2013
- Carla del Ponte’s Faux Pas – May 7th, 2013





Disappointed reader
August 23rd, 2011 at 9:07 pm
Why should a Libyan constitution based upon an Islamic moral and legal framework be "ominous," Justin?
Try to think outside the Zionist Narrative please.
JLS
August 23rd, 2011 at 9:14 pm
Damn Justin that was awesome! The Juan Cole/Bill Krystal comparison was spot on and another confirmation that the ridiculous team red/team blue distinction just serves to mask the fact that they're all one and the same.
JLS
August 23rd, 2011 at 9:18 pm
"I have to say, however, that I am quite shaken by this pronouncement on the FBI’s part, so shaken that I have decided to abjure traveling by plane, or on any government-run train, after having been so accused."
I always thought Glenn Greenwald was wise to move outside the United States when he started writing on political topics. Anyway this very real threat is why you need to get that FBI spying on antiwar.com story on as many media outlets as possible. Make sure it's heavily covered so that everybody knows who you are if, God forbid, the government should do something like that.
Justn Raimondo
August 23rd, 2011 at 9:35 pm
Why bother having an election if the ideological basis of all legislation is decided in advance? And then there's that little matter of freedom of religion, but then again that would be asking you to think outside the totalitarian narrative.
skulz fontaine
August 23rd, 2011 at 9:38 pm
The "downing-of-the-statue" moment is already on the front pages of al-Jazeera. Problem is, dude hanging off the Qadaffi monument is decidedly un-Libyan in appearance. Dang, I can just see Juanito Cole shaking his professorial finger at me for being rude.
Libya will be unmanageable. Especially for the Obama crowd and that is EXACTLY how it should be.
RickR30
August 23rd, 2011 at 9:42 pm
For the neo-cons left and right, war isn't just the means, it's also and end unto itself. What happens to the Libyan people now? Who cares, the establishment war lords are moving on, Syria on the sights. (Anyone interested what's going on with the Egyptian people? Thought so.) We'll probably hear more about Libya until they find poor ol' Gaddafi and hang him, or whatever bloody plans they have for him. And this is supposed to represent victory? And the Obama cultists want to declare this a victory for Obama? Laughable. At best this is a "victory" for the creep of Sarkoshlitz. Out of nowhere he became an EuroBush. Is the end of the era of secular Arab governments somehow good? And the dawn of Islamist governments, probably with the inevitable Shia/Sunni infighting better? It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Libya's oil production and who gets what portion of the pie. Not that the mediocre media will investigate that. They'll just print whatever cheap propaganda comes out of Washington. Well, good luck to the Libyan people. Hopefully they won't have to live through the change of years of stability to years of chaos a la Iraq and Afghanistan courtesy of the US/NATO.
BINSAFI
August 23rd, 2011 at 10:40 pm
"…in order to facilitate the Obama administration’s harebrained scheme to hijack the “Arab Spring” and turn it into the engine of Western imperialism in the region….."
Here are a a few Radical-Thoughts, from the Far-West:
As far as Libya is concerned, these Wise Words (by Justin), say it ALL!
This Fiasco, is their Last-Ditch Attempt to Desperately DeFuse & DeFlect this Real Revolution that's Raging!!
Tripoli & Green Square (now Re-Branded & Re-Named), can NOT be Compared to Tahrir Square!!!
The Tide is Turning, and even the Fall of Tripoli-West will NOT Stem this Tide!!!!
P.S. Thank you Justin & Stay STRONG…………………………………………………….
Peace, Love & Respect.
Strider55
August 24th, 2011 at 3:05 am
Justin, if you don't want to fly or ride the train (and I certainly don't blame you), then conduct your Autumn Campus Tour via videoconference. You'll avoid the jackbooted goons and save money at the same time.
Oswaldwasalefty
August 24th, 2011 at 4:12 am
The Empire Strikes Back! This is a major setback for the Arab Spring. Libya is being recolonized and its simply impossible for the Obmabots to understand why that is nothing to celebrate. Their Dear Leader is leading the Humanitarian charge into Libya and they don't want to hear and criticism of U.S. imperialism under Obama.
General Juan Cole for new ambassador to Libya! Hey, he got the snub for his Ivy League job back during Bush time, so this could help take some of the pain of that snubbing away.
Gosh, look at all these hairy chested liberals, who we were once on our side when it was politically convenient to be circa 2001-2008. Unfortunately, Al-Jazeera has sprouted quite a hairy chest in its coverage of the Western imperialist intervention in Libya (No, I will not refer to it as "NATO" intervention). Go figure, the channel is based in the absolute Gulf monarchy of Qatar. Suddenly the lovely Lebanese presenter Ghida Fakhry looks like a hairy man with a machine gun. I'm truly heartbroken.
It looks like the Western imperialists are going to have their way, for the moment. Now it is up to Ghaddafi to live up to all the anti-imperialist bluster he has spouted over the years, and refuse to be taken alive, a la Saddam. If he really meant what he has said over the years, then he will go down in a blaze of glory, standing up and shooting back. He won't head for a comfortable life in exile, or allow himself to be captured and taken before a kangaroo court in Switzerland.
Raashid
August 24th, 2011 at 4:36 am
I'm inclined to beleive, based on evidence of Somalia, Afghanistan (and possibly Pakistan) and Iraq, that no Arab or Muslim society can run an effective civil society, when a strong central leadership is toppled. And I say that as Muslim myself. Libyans will kill each other for the next 30 years along tribal lines and eventually some sort of Al-Qaeda type group may findsanctuary there to plot there nefarious activities
Emilyrose
August 24th, 2011 at 4:39 am
This destruction of Libya, the murder of its people, the bombing of its infrastructure and the theft of its sovereignty is so outrageous, so grievious, so wrong I cannot find the words to adequately describe it.
Only was the destruction of Serbia comparable.
The similarities exact.
One for oil and gold and probably another chinese funded US military base.
The other for Chinese funded US military base, Oil pipelines and the better trans shipping of Afghani heroin by the worlds biggest traffickers the CIA.
Raashid
August 24th, 2011 at 4:41 am
You may have a point, but I don't think the Islamic government in itself is an issue for Justin, given he believes in the US not concerning itself with the internal workings of a foreign state, but more the creation of one at American taxpayers expense.
SeriousCitizen
August 24th, 2011 at 4:45 am
Most video clips of the rebels in Libya show fully bearded men singing praises to Allah. It should be obvious that Islamists have guns and power in Libya. There are also Islamists in neighboring Algeria and Egypt. There will be mutual support flowing in all directions. What makes Libya a much worse situation than Iraq is that it borders the same lake as Spain, France, Italy and Greece. A failed state in Libya, or an Islamist state in Libya, is going to set the gongs ringing in Europe. On the one hand, we can expect more Breivik militias to be waging domestic war on Islam. On the other hand, we can expect more Islamists to be enacting revenge. And this is not a handy time for Europe to have another set of domestic crises (plural). I dread the revenge that Gaddafi has in store for France, the UK, Italy and the other NATO nations that have attacked Libya. I cannot guess what it will be, nor if it will succeed, but I think it is a sure bet that he has something horrific en route to Europe.
O'Raiffeartaigh
August 24th, 2011 at 4:47 am
Let me get this straight:if Libya did not have huge oil reserves, and it's major export was Libyan turnips, the US would still have bombed and invaded Libya….so Juan Cole wants everyone to participate in one really big lie. Rachel Maddow recieves a nice paycheck for endorsing the war crimes of the bull-dyke Hilarly Clinton. And don't forget, for the testosterone flushed bull-dyke Maddow, these war crimes are done in the name of legalized homosexual marriage.
Left-liberal types such as Cole and the repellant Maddow have given that other testosterone flushed bull-dyke-Hilary-a blank check to commit war crimes on a scale that may end up making Donald Rumsfeld look like a peacenick.
Susan
August 24th, 2011 at 5:35 am
"bull-dyke Hilarly Clinton" That was unnecessary. How old are you…..
JLS
August 24th, 2011 at 6:05 am
Very well said!
San Fernando Curt
August 24th, 2011 at 7:24 am
You should go on tour and dare them to haul you off a plane.
RickR30
August 24th, 2011 at 7:28 am
Agreed, for many underdeveloped countries that is the case. The choice is between a strong man or anarchy. And even in developed democracies we see something similar e.g. Cheney. Political nature abhors a power vacuum.
John V. Walsh
August 24th, 2011 at 7:29 am
Here is a report from China Daily's running coverage of Libya – hourly accounts at least:
"The Damascus-based Islamic Hamas movement congratulated Wednesday the Libyan people on the success of popular uprising, saying it hopes the Palestinian question would as usual remain among the top priorities of the Libyan people."
This bolsters Justin's contention that things are about to get very complicated for the West. On the other hand the cruelty of the neo-colonialists knows no bounds when it comes to ensuring obedience of installed regimes.
andy
August 24th, 2011 at 8:02 am
I agree with you. And your comment is candid and brave.
andy
August 24th, 2011 at 8:06 am
I predict chaos, violence, instability and no real social or economic progress. As for freedom we may end up with a Taliban style regime – and right on the shores of the Medirterranean sea. There is a lot to be said for the devil you know. I still think we should have stayed out of the matter altogether.
Mike402
August 24th, 2011 at 8:13 am
Iran is one of the few that probably could. Their government is tryannical but there is a long history of civic involvement there and an understanding of democracy. The U.S. would be wise to not do anything to screw that up as it is one one hope for the future.
Jaime
August 24th, 2011 at 8:35 am
It is indeed sad to read the news regarding Libya. Gaddafi may not have been an angel, but, as a Peruvian student in a Canadian university in the 80s, I saw the investment he made on his citizens. I took English in Vancouver and then I traveled to Toronto to take Pol Sc. I also traveled the country widely, and everywhere I went, there were Libyan students, especially in the science fields. I made friends among some of these kind people. Now I can only think of their fate and how their families are faring. May God damn those who have brought suffering and destruction upon the lives of the Libyans (and all the others in other parts of the world) all in the name of the basest ambition and self-interest.
ML3
August 24th, 2011 at 9:24 am
Hey Justin, does the we break it we bought it rule apply?
Will this be another country we will be obligated to keep spending money on, regardless of their oil wealth?
At least they never had their hand out, unlike Israel, whose graft on America is an embedded way of life. Practically in the Constitution, ya know.
.
ML3
August 24th, 2011 at 9:30 am
You can say that again!!! All those who were against Republican neocon-led regime change (we wanted to make Iraqis "free" since there was no al-Qaeda link or WMD) given the Bill Kristol blessing, now have their very own war they can cheer and feel good about, blessed by Juan Cole, because this is "humanitarian intervention" that just so happened to lead to regime change.
They were so unhappy they should have gotten rid of Gadhafi themselves; this way they wouldn't owe any outside powers a damn thing.
Emilyrose
August 24th, 2011 at 10:54 am
They will be very happy with a Taliban style government.
The repressive the better as long as it signs the right oil contracts.
THey created the Taliban.
It was when the Taliban got a dose of the wrong religious doctrine, became a little too pure, and started irradicating the Poppies NATO moved in.
The heroin trade is run largely by the CIA.
Google = tons of evidence.
What really happened`shows graphic photos of the American military tending the poppies, protecting and shipping them out.
What about the fundamentalist terrorist group the KLA on whose behalf they destroyed Serbia.
Created – again tons of evidence – by the CIA and British and German intel directly with Bin Laden imput.
They illegally stripped Serbia of Kosovo which they handed to these ialamic terrorist in return for a military base and free run of heroin.
Their favoorite son Thaci has been fingered by the EU looking at war crimes in Kosovo and he stands reliably accused of organ trading.
That is kidnapping many Serbs, keeping them in pens and killing them as the orders came in for their body parts.
About as vile a trade as you can conceive but OK by NATO.
Take a look at Bosnia. The darling in the Balkans.
There best friend was a radical islamic Izetbegovic. They destroyed the Christian Bosnian Serbs and drove them into the present enclave and refuse to allow them their religious and political freedom. They are dominated by islam and the western toadies in Bosnia to enforce it.
This war as with the attack on Serbia is the meeting of the criminal and insane minds of the neocons and neolibs.
Both an insult to humanity itself.
moe7
August 24th, 2011 at 11:06 am
Why would you need to cancel your flights? Doesn't this discovery go back to 2004? If you were good to go last year, you would think nothing has changed?
Oswaldwasalefty
August 24th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
The rush to "rebuild" Libya is underway, so let the hog wallow begin:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/08/…
Yeah, it will be "different" this time around. France and Italy will be better positioned to get in on more the loot of this robbery than in Iraq. They were both quite naughty when it came to Iraq, but they've learned their lesson and helped out as best they could with this latest imperial crusade.
Of course, this new rag tag outfit, the NTC, they're now calling a "government" will be an incorruptible model of honest and transparency. No need to worry about foreign contractor thievery, a la Iraq.
dink
August 24th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Once Obama acted like a King and did not get congressional authorization was the decisive factor. Either you are for the Republic of the United States or not. His credibility is ZERO. Juan Cole and other apologists for Cult-Obama are zero also.
John_Muhammad
August 24th, 2011 at 7:27 pm
While I, as a Muslim, am delighted to know a nation is to use the shari'a as a basis for its legal system, I have grave doubts if those in Libya who now seek to do this are in any way capable of applying shari'a in a moral, ethical, and responsible manner. Given the track record and connections of the 'Rebels' I have my doubts about their ability to govern anything, much less govern with an even hand under shari'a laws.
If applied with moral and ethical prudence, shari'a can be a powerful and just force for social action and decency- applied with personal and political agendas (not to mention ingrained social and/or gender oppression masked as law) and it can be a terrible system of governance. Just as for most any legal system (even though shari'a encompasses far more than just civil law) it has to be applied thoughtfully by learned jurists, and not used for petty worldly gain.
In short, from my Muslim point of view: They talk the talk- but can they walk the walk? We shall see.
Tom Mauel
August 24th, 2011 at 9:28 pm
Why is Juan Cole listed as a contributor to AntiWar? In what capacity? Is he a contributor to the pro war side so they get equal time?
Hrebeljanovic
August 25th, 2011 at 12:19 am
Oh, puhlease. Hitlery bragged so many times about how she urged deBill to bomb Serbia. Allow me to remind you that a four year old Milica Rakic was killed, in her bathroom, going potty before her bedtime by a bomb shrapnel. I shiver to think how many more children are killed around the world thanks to the creatures like she is. Would ti please you that O'Raiffeartaigh called her a murderer? How old are you Susan?
Raashid
August 25th, 2011 at 4:58 am
That's the problem with Muslims though isn't it? Most don't really understand their religion properly but based on a few quotes from the Prophet (SAW) they want to start telling everyone else exactly what to do. I've been experiencing it all Ramadan from busy-bodies that insist I pray incorrectly because their beloved mullah has told them something. Imagine that implemented on a national scale, backed up with rifles, and it's how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
Jaime
August 25th, 2011 at 7:55 am
Do Christians understand Christianity? If we were to compare the monstrosities Muslim and Christian religions have committed throughout time, I think Christianity would take top place. What about the things our beloved priests, pastors, bishops etc. tell us about the important things in life, war, for example? Don't all armies in the "civilized" west have chaplains that tell the soldiers how christian it is to kill their fellow man? Man's nature is evil (I am Hobbesian in that sense). So "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
SeriousCitizen
August 25th, 2011 at 8:36 am
Henry David Thoreau, in his book "A Week on the Concord and Merrimack Rivers", commented that if it ever were to happen that the parishioners in a church understood a Gospel reading, then the whole building would fall down. So, yes, it is very, very, very common that Christians do not understand Christianity. The most common example being soldiers praying before battle, often under command to do so, not noticing that there is a Commandment "Thou shalt not kill." When I am being hit upon by Christian evangelists intent on bringing me into their group, I usually put them off with a Diogenes-esque comment, "I have been looking to find a Christian, but I have never met one yet."
Jaime
August 25th, 2011 at 11:43 am
Excellent reply SeriousCitizen, but the one who has given us a thumbsdown doesn't agree, and that's an excellent thing too.
Raashid
August 25th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
I wouldn't presume to comment on someone else's faith, it being that mysterious intangible part of the human condition that seems innate within us, so I wouldn't go down the path of a "my religions better then yours" type. The point I was making to John's coment was more that given recent examples of Muslims trying to implement their vision of an Islamic state, it would seem that at this time at least, such groups cannot be trusted with implmenting the idea to any good. And when I say trusted, I mean by the Muslims themselves, as opposed to the Western governments, whom it should have nothing to do with.
John_Muhammad
August 26th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
ASA, Raashid- and thank you for your thoughtful replies. I am glad to see another Muslim who doesn't just automatically take a knee-jerk reactionary position opposite that of the posts we see on here; you are very correct that a little knowledge is dangerous and it's apparent that when religion is concerned- and religion- that this is all the more an important point to drive home. All over the world we see passages from religious works taken out of context and distorted and deliberately mistranslated to suit whatever is needed to pursue some personal or political agenda. It is indeed sad that within our own ummah there are many who don't know what to do or worse, make up things they THINK they're supposed to do, and call that Islam. I am the first to admit my own knowledge and practice isn't perfect, but every day I strive to be better and I wish this for all religious communities- if we work together instead of against each other, perhaps some of the world's unrest would be solved. Thank you again for your thoughts, Raashid, and Ramadan Mubarak- Jezekallah khayr