If there was any doubt about why the United States is involved in an increasingly messy military engagement in Libya, President Barack Obama cleared the air in his speech on March 29th. The US has no vital interest at stake but is involved in a humanitarian mission, to save innocent lives, akin to the Balkan enterprise of the 1990s. Other evidence provided by top administration officials suggests that the ultimate intention is to replace Muammar Gadhafi, in other words regime change, similar to the military action that removed Saddam Hussein from Iraq.
Obama could have made a plausible case for removing Gadhafi based on imminent threat. Gadhafi has been a major state supporter of terrorism, no doubt about it, and he did down both American and French commercial airliners in 1988 and 1989, resulting in major loss of life. He also ordered his agents to bomb a club frequented by American soldiers in Berlin in 1986, killing three, and resulting in a punitive attack by US military aircraft on Tripoli. Though the United States has come to terms with Libya and its regime it is indisputable that Gadhafi is a murderous thug and he is eminently capable of resorting to the terrorism card if he feels his interests demand it. Now that he has been condemned by the UN and attacked by NATO, he almost certainly will again exploit his considerable financial resources to fund terrorism. But President Barack Obama did not cite the danger posed by Gadhafi and instead chose to emphasize the humanitarian aspect of a US military intervention.
Recall for a moment that when Iraq occupied Kuwait in 1991 there were tales of Iraqi soldiers hurling infants out of incubators. Additional atrocities were described tearfully by a young woman who turned out to be the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. Almost everything being reported about the bloodthirsty Iraqis turned out to be false, deliberately so, to make the case for war. In light of the deliberate deception that has been part and parcel of every American intervention anywhere since the end of the Second World War, how can anyone believe the official narrative? Why should anyone assume that Muammar Gadhafi will decide to slaughter his own people, particularly since he has a major interest in making the rebellion to his rule go away, an unlikely outcome if he engages in wholesale massacres.
Most Americans would accept that there will be times when our country must use its armed forces as an instrument of foreign policy, but this is not one of those moments. Gadhafi posed no imminent threat to anyone but his own people and it is far from clear whether he was in fact poised to kill large numbers of them in some kind of paroxysm of revenge for the rebellion against his authority. And the problem with humanitarian intervention as a concept is that it opens the door to more of the same wherever there are violations of fundamental rights. It is perhaps necessary to step back and establish some sort of metric for intervention, but attempting to do so produces some odd results. When should one intervene on humanitarian grounds and what are the numbers of deaths required to trigger some kind of United States response?
Many countries are not shy about massacring civilians. The United States has itself killed tens of thousands of them in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even accepting that Gadhafi might have killed some hundreds of Libyans, he is not exactly unique. Protesters have recently been met by force in a number of countries in the Arab world, to include Algeria, Yemen, Bahrain, and Syria and there have been large numbers of fatalities. How does the United States make a decision whether or not to intervene in those places to save lives? Is the decision based on the number of deaths, the types of deaths, or, one suspects, the relationship of Washington with whoever is in charge in the respective countries? Gadhafi was a convenient fall guy and it now appears that President Bashar Assad of Syria is possibly also being set up, but is there any chance that Washington will pull the plug on its support of the Kings of Bahrain and Saudi Arabia?
And then there are other non-Arab friends of the United States like Israel. By any metric Israel should be attacked first to prevent massacres of civilians as it has killed thousands of Arabs in internationally recognized war crimes carried out in Lebanon and Gaza. That Israel is untouchable on humanitarian grounds raises the inevitable question about Washington’s hypocrisy. A friendly Saudi Arabia too has demonstrated that it is more than willing to use force to maintain its autarchic rule. It sent troops to aid neighboring Bahrain, which exacerbated the problem in that nation rather than mitigating the unrest, and has indicated that it is prepared to use force to continue its dominance in the oil producing eastern parts of the country, which are predominantly Shi’ite. And then there are countries like Burma, where repression is so regular that it is hardly remarked upon, and the Ivory Coast, which is currently going through its own brand of bloodletting with more than 1,000 bodies discovered over the weekend.
In short, there are a whole lot of countries that are ripe for a little humanitarian intervention and even regime change in the more obdurate cases, but there are a couple of good reasons not to do so. First is the ethical consideration that interventions might be grounded in good intentions but they are generally based on inaccurate or even false information about the situation on the ground, which renders suspect the humanitarian aspect itself. Second, whenever a humanitarian intervention takes place it often produces a bad result. America’s assistance to the mujahedin in Afghanistan certainly did remove an occupying Russian army but it also led to the Taliban and al-Qaeda. The often cited massacres in the Balkans in the 1990s turned out to be mostly fictional and the result of the intervention has been a Kosovar state that has become a center for drug trafficking, organ sales, and Islamic radicalism in Europe.
And then there is Iraq. Iraq is a poster child for the collateral damage that goes hand in hand with interventions. It is called mission creep, which happens every time a humanitarian mission is launched. The neocon fantasy of a short, surgical invasion of Iraq to topple a tyrant and free the people, all paid for by oil revenue, and a quick exit turned out to be anything but. To be sure, Saddam fell on schedule but he was succeeded by an eight year occupation and still counting, a multiple trillion dollar accounts due, hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions displaced, and a corrupt government in Baghdad that is closer to Tehran than it is to Washington. Somalia likewise started as a UN program to feed Mogadishu and wound up as Blackhawk Down. Libya is already beginning to look a lot like Uncle Remus’ tar baby. Easy to take hold of but hard to release.
The Democratic Party’s undying affection for humanitarian gestures is more than regrettable. Watching President Obama’s half smirk as he explains in the most honest and truthful terms how he is doing something wonderful for the Libyan people is reminiscent of Bill Clinton’s similar unctuously sincere performances as he ordered the bombing of Serbia. Neither should be any more acceptable than the truly awful Bush Doctrine that gave the United States carte blanche to invade any country in the world for reasons of security. Both Republican and Democratic doctrines should be rejected because experience suggests that they do not save lives anywhere, quite the contrary, and each unfortunate overseas adventure only represents a new burden that has to be borne with no discernible gain for the American people.
Read more by Philip Giraldi
- AIPAC Declares War – February 22nd, 2012
- Bipartisan Support for World War III – February 15th, 2012
- The World Turned Upside Down – February 8th, 2012
- Another War on the Cheap – February 1st, 2012
- Avoiding a ‘Dumb War’ With Iran – January 25th, 2012





epppie
April 6th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
And even IF our motivations for intervention were ever good, which they NEVER are, it still wouldn't justify the US or even Nato or even the UN appointing itself judge, jury and executioner over other governments.
Bodkin
April 6th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
"By any metric Israel should be attacked first to prevent massacres of civilians as it has killed thousands of Arabs in internationally recognized war crimes carried out in Lebanon and Gaza."
Internationally recognized? Perhaps you didn't get the memo: Goldstone confirmed that Israel did NOT commit war crimes (as if a UN report was ever required). What should be "internationally recognized" is that there's a double standard at work when judging Israel, along with endless malice and dishonesty. Goldstone also confirmed that Hamas did indeed commit war crimes, but of course Giraldi makes no mention of that because of his blatant prejudice. I suppose Giraldi thinks it's fine and dandy when Hamas and Hezbollah draw Israeli fire toward civilian areas.
Hamas, Hezbollah and their Iranian backers are the real war criminals. Giraldi is one of their most persistent apologists. Henceforth, let these be the facts that are "internationally recognized".
P.S. It would be rather amusing to see a military force attempt to establish a no-fly zone in Israel.
sherban
April 6th, 2011 at 10:20 pm
If i were Gadaffi i would close "the rebels"in Benghazi disconnect them from the world and provide food according with a mathematical formula which it give them the minimum need,namely i remake the situation of 1.5 millions people in Gaza.Of course "the free world"will act differently.
Chas
April 6th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
"the free world will act differently", how ? and it that before or after the "Samson Option" ?
Avi of Mondoweiss
April 6th, 2011 at 11:25 pm
***********The often cited massacres in the Balkans in the 1990s turned out to be mostly fictional and the result of the intervention has been a Kosovar state that has become a center for drug trafficking, organ sales, and Islamic radicalism in Europe. **************
Dr. Giraldi,
There was no genocide in the former Yugoslavia? "Fictional"?
So, Slobodan Milosevic — for example — was framed?
Thomas L. Knapp
April 6th, 2011 at 11:48 pm
Bodkin,
The IDF's Military Advocate General charged several Israeli troops with war crimes and convicted at least some of them, including two staff NCOs who were convicted of using a nine-year-old as a human shield.
In some other cases, actions which would likely have been treated as war crimes by an international court — a hospital hit with white phosphorous rounds was one of those, IIRC — were instead treated as mistakes; the difference, of course, being evaluation of intent.
So, Goldstone may have "confirmed" that Israel didn't commit war crimes — but Israel itself insists that it did.
Not surprising — states are criminal enterprises, and Israel is a state. Hamas is a criminal enterprise aspiring to statehood, just as every street gang dreams of becoming the next Mafia.
Bodkin
April 7th, 2011 at 12:29 am
Israel is portrayed as a monster while the crimes of its enemies are ignored, as Giraldi has done here in his zeal to establish that Israel deserves to be attacked. Does he believe Israel is guilty of a Rwanda-esque mass slaughter? That was the ostensible reason the UN attacked Libya: to prevent a genocide. For Giraldi to claim that Israel deserves to be attacked long before a truly genocidal regime suggests that he believes Israel is guilty of an even greater genocide than the one initially feared in Libya. It's that ludicrous premise which prompted me to write, not the excesses committed by a few soldiers, which Goldstone exonerated but Israel didn't.
Why do you think a state is a criminal enterprise? Wouldn't that mean the vast majority of citizens are criminals too, for participating in statehood by voting and paying taxes and serving in the military and generally believing they need a government to perform certain functions?
Doug_in_Indiana
April 7th, 2011 at 1:38 am
In 2001 a UN supervised court in Pristina ruled that there was no genocide in Kosovo.
( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1530781.stm ) There were surely massacres as the Milosevic forces attempted to control the province, probably on both sides, but there was nothing like the hysterical claims in British and US lamestream news articles screaming about a hundred thousand civilians in mass graves. Obomber lies, Bushlet lied, Clintoon lied and you can keep regressing where war is concerned. Remember at that time Clinton was seriously concerned about where his member had been and a diversion via war was just the ticket.
I wouldn't say Slobo was framed, but the scale was exaggerated
bogi666
April 7th, 2011 at 2:21 am
The purpose of these invasions, especially NATO, is to establish extra-governmental administrations in accordance with the One World System, globalization of capital, which is the Beast of Revelations.
bogi666
April 7th, 2011 at 2:26 am
Using children as human shields, you mean like Bush did on 9/11at thew Florida classroom as he was running from Osama.
Phil Giraldi
April 7th, 2011 at 4:31 am
Avi – I did not say there were no massacres in the Balkans, only that they were mostly exaggerated to support a political agenda.
liveload
April 7th, 2011 at 4:54 am
We're spending tons of money and the only thing we have to show for it at the end of the day is a trail of bodies and new enemies. If we wait till we're bankrupt to stop intervening, we will be in even greater danger of terrorist attack than we are now. Quitting because you have to, and not because you chose to, is quite a distinction. One not likely to be lost on the enemies we create with our orgies of violence. Being bankrupt and unable to intervene, but still beholden by militaristic and antagonistic attitudes, will leave us at our most vulnerable. Put it this way: A much bigger and more powerful person is chasing you and wants to kill you. If the pursuer stops and declares the chase to be fruitless and a waste, then walks away; you will be much less likely to turn around and strike knowing that they could still easily kill you. If they chase you until they have collapsed from exhaustion, you will be much more likely to turn and stike them while they are down, eliminate future threats to your existence.
Die Wahrheit zählt
April 7th, 2011 at 5:20 am
Phil,
I don't disagree with your analysis. What is most disappointing is the collusion of the Europeans in all this warmongering. They should know better, particularly Germany, which 'apologized' for it's 'mistake' in not aiding the air war against Libya by sending additional forces to Afghanistan, purely for "humanitarian" purposes of course.
Then again, Britain, Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium etc. are all former imperial powers, but act as though they still are. The imperialists have so much blood on their hands. Yet what are we told to fear? Islamism of course! A nice little circle.
blowback
April 7th, 2011 at 6:17 am
Bodkin – you are being disingenuous (economical with the truth) here – all Goldstone stated recently was that there now appeared to be no evidence that the Israeli forces intentionally targeted civilians but that he backed the rest of the report. While there may be no "smoking gun" in the form of a direct written order from the Israeli government to intentionally target civilians, it is likely through suggestions and omissions that the Israeli government was very happy to see civilians targeted (which has been Israeli policy in the past). The same can be said of the Holocaust as there really is no direct evidence that Hitler ordered the Final Solution; there is only circumstantial evidence.
Terrance&Philip
April 7th, 2011 at 6:23 am
"And the problem with humanitarian intervention as a concept is that it opens the door to more of the same wherever there are violations of fundamental rights. "
Precisely. Today Libya, tomorrow Mexico?
Terrance&Philip
April 7th, 2011 at 6:27 am
Yes, but "true" patriots know that Afghani, Iraqi and Libyan peasants killed by US forces die with the satisfaction of knowing they're being dispatched for "truth" and "justice" and the American way and not because they got in the way of some mean old dictator.
blowback
April 7th, 2011 at 7:55 am
"Today Libya, tomorrow Mexico"
How about Today Libya, tomorrow Mexico and the day after tomorrow the United States"
Next time there is a race riot in the United States, I hope the UNSC passes a resolution creating a no-fly-zone over the United States to protect the civilians.
Die Wahrheit zählt
April 7th, 2011 at 8:36 am
blowback – what Goldstone says is irrelevant. You cannot argue against the fact of 1400 deaths, many more injured, and such destruction, caused by overwhelming military superiority against a largely defenceless civilian population. How many tanks, helicopters, warships etc. do Hamas have? Israel knew from the outset that there would be a large toll of civilian casualties. That didn't stop them. The timimg of the attack was the height of cynicism, with the Israeli lackey Bush having just days remaining in office. I wouldn't be too bothered about Bodkin, a paid 'Talkbacker' probably. Really, the Israeli embassy gets very poor value for money these days. But hey, aren't the Americans paying for it all? Why should Israel care how much it costs?
Avi of Mondoweiss
April 7th, 2011 at 10:26 am
"""""""""""Crimes against humanity and war crimes did take place, it said, but "the exactions committed by Milosevic's regime cannot be qualified as criminal acts of genocide, since their purpose was not the destruction of the Albanian ethnic group… but its forceful departure from Kosovo".""""""""""
Doug,
The BBC article shows that the distinction was a technical one; genocide vs. ethnic cleansing (i.e. massacres and/or expulsion).
But, that does not constitute: """The often cited massacres in the Balkans in the 1990s turned out to be mostly fictional""""
RickR30
April 7th, 2011 at 10:50 am
How about that other country that murders its own people, as in Ruby Ridge, Waco, and countless daily pointless police shootings?
And what if the direct "humanitarian" intervention kills more people than the alleged massacre would have? Is anyone keeping track of how many innocent Libyan civilians have been killed by Baruch Obama and Sarkoshlitz?
Who elected the US anyway to monitor possible crimes-against-his-own-people-type activity? When did Congress or the American people vote to be punisher of the criminals-against-their-own-people?
The political underclass of inbreds is doing far too much that no one other than a handful of deranged necrophiliac nihilist neocons would agree to, let alone choose in an election. Aren't we supposed to be the democracy of all democracies?
baz
April 7th, 2011 at 11:49 am
Bodkin,
Perhaps you didnt get this memo…
Israel is a racist apartheid state run by a fascist military regime synonymous to 1940's german reich, with, ironically, the same strategic genocidal agenda of wiping out "inferior" races and annexing their land. The only difference between germany in the 40's and Israel today is that the germans were native to the land where they were committing genocide, The Israelis, by contrast, are immigrants from europe and are exterminating a the native population of palestine.
andy
April 7th, 2011 at 11:56 am
Unfortunately, they REALLY DO run the U.S.
baz
April 7th, 2011 at 11:59 am
Bodkin,
Last i heard, Neither Iran, hezbollah, nor hamas were rounding people up according to their race and imprisoning them in warsaw ghettos and systematically exterminating them.
However, Israeli is doing this.
In fact, there are as many as 50 thousand jews living in tehran and , unlike arabs in israel who are basically treated as sub-humans, have full rights and are massively over-represented in Iranian parliament. Jews in Iran are extremely successful and enjoy a much higher standard of living than jews in Israel.
Perhaps we need to re-visit your definition of "war crimes"
or is it just part of your job description as a mossad blogger to spew this nonsensical racist propaganda on the internet?
Bodkin
April 7th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
Comparing the Gaza operation to the Final Solution is indescribably ludicrous and insane.
More people were killed at one death camp in one hour than in the whole Gaza operation. And the death camps INTENTIONALLY targeted innocents, whereas Israel was targeting Hamas operatives who had triggered Cast Lead by launching rockets on south Israel for YEARS. The only provocation of death camp victims was their inescapable ethnic heritage. The Final Solution went on for YEARS, aiming to exterminate a people, while Cast Lead lasted a few weeks, aiming to end terrorist rockets.
For you to equate a relative handful of terrorists with 6 million innocent people would mean your permanent removal from any sort of serious debate anywhere else. In the alternate universe known as antiwar.com, however, your views are perfectly in the mainstream of acceptability.
Bodkin
April 7th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
Another preposterous post from yet another madman in the loony bin. Giraldi must be grinning from ear to ear at the effects his relentless propaganda has on the deranged brains of his readers.
"the same strategic genocidal agenda of wiping out "inferior" races"
Get this through your thick little head: The population of Palestinians is GROWING!!! Therefore, there is NO GENOCIDE TAKING PLACE!!!
And Israelis are not "immigrants from europe". You conveniently forget about all the Middle Eastern Jews who were expelled from Arab lands in 1948. And you forget that, by now, most Jews in Israel were BORN THERE and are now just as NATIVE to the land.
james
April 7th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
No matterr what, Goldstone on any other Zionist criminal says about the "intent", the civilians are still dead and will never come back. Deploying heavy artilery on civilian targets needs no intent, it is very clear what will hapen.
Take your logic somewhere else Bodkin, nobody is buying it here.
John_Muhammad
April 7th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Hypocrisy of the West- this is news…why? Same old story, new VOTW (Villain of the Week), nothing to see, move along.
But what happens when it happens to YOU? I daresay the vast majority of Americans are too politically timid to get in the streets to demand change a la Tahrir Square- and what happens when some yahoo in the National Guard (shades of Kent State) gets scared and gives the order to fire on the crowd that does get the nerve to show up? Think about it.
SmashZionism
April 7th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
"Comparing the Gaza operation to the Final Solution is indescribably ludicrous and insane."
You're right, even at the height of the 2nd World War there weren't any German citizens engaging in war tourism like this lovely young woman named Keren Levey, who describes herself as "a little bit fascist":
youtube ( DOT ) com ( SLASH ) watch?v=Tjw8U0AcH4Q
"More people were killed at one death camp in one hour than in the whole Gaza operation."
Source, site, dates, hand them over.
"the death camps INTENTIONALLY targeted innocents"
Yes, the death camps of Sabra, Shatila, Jenin and the giant death camp of Gaza were subjected to being targeted indiscriminately and intentionally. Pissy Livni proudly said "we behaved as hooligans and that's a good thing!"
"The only provocation of death camp victims was their inescapable ethnic heritage."
Yup, those arabs happened to be born brown and muslim or christian, had they been hebrews they could have avoided the slaughter or participated in it with glee.
"The Final Solution went on for YEARS, aiming to exterminate a people."
Yup, it's been going steadily with periodic outbursts of violence every now and again since about 1947-48.
"For you to equate a relative handful of terrorists with 6 million innocent people…"
Always with the 6 million exactly, no more, no less right? If it's 5,999,999 and I say so in Germany I goto jail though, and my lawyer might join me. Free speech for all! Except those who question Israel and it's holocaust begging bowl, amirite?
Bodkin
April 7th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
It's great to see that psychiatric inpatients are allowed some time on the internet to relax.
Unfortunately, the nice men in white coats are coming to take you back to your padded room now, as it's time for your meds again. Keep listening to those voices in your head, Smashy!
baz
April 7th, 2011 at 8:31 pm
Bodkin,
why should it have come as a surprise that jews were kicked out of arab lands in 1948. Before 1948 Jews were welcome in arab land and were given refuge against anti-semitism in europe. Unfortunately, the jews living in arab countries were betrayed by the zionists who, in 1948, took the opportunity to massacre hundreds of thousands of arabs in palestine and destroy their villages, afterwards, claiming that those villages never existed. I suggest you read the book "the ethnic cleansing of palestine", a book by jewish israeli historian Ilan pappe. He documents zionists' massacres of helpless unarmed arab women and children after Israel established itself as a racist apartheid jewish state in 1948.
Do you think the arab world should have welcomed the ensuing war crimes committed by jews in palestine and thanks the jews for butchering the same arabs who had given them refuge during the holocaust??
Bodkin
April 7th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
How can you criticize Israel so self-righteously for its "crimes", yet justify the ethnic cleansing committed by the Arabs!? Answer: You must be a bigot, operating with one standard for Jews, and a different one for everyone else. If Jews in Israel were at fault, why brutalize Jews in Arab lands who did absolutely nothing? A man named Hitler once used the same "logic".
You practise guilt by association, something you have in common with all bigots, especially antisemitic ones. The fact that you think you have any credibility to give moral lectures while taking such an immoral position is despicable and only serves to confirm the very negative impression you've given me. You, like most of your vicious brethren here, are morally bankrupt.
Repeat this a thousand times until it sinks in:
If Jew "A" does something you don't like, Jew "B" is NOT TO BLAME!!!
baz
April 8th, 2011 at 9:55 am
fyi, there was no ethnic cleansing by Arabs. read a book once in a while. Jews arrived to Arab countries by the boatload between 1900 and 1945 and were graciously welcome before they started making claims of owning the land they were guests on.
history is your own worst enemy mr bodkin
(Edited.)
baz
April 8th, 2011 at 9:58 am
ahh yes, the bigot accusation. Always enters the picture after the facts and history discount the racist propaganda spewed by zionists.
Have never heard that one before…
Do you guys have anything REAL to counter with or is that it?….
Bodkin
April 8th, 2011 at 10:16 pm
You contradict yourself. You're in no position to recommend I go read a book when you can't even proofread your own post. This is what you wrote:
"why should it have come as a surprise that jews were kicked out of arab lands in 1948"
So there. You said it yourself. "Jews were kicked out of Arab lands". So how the hell can you say "there was no ethnic cleansing by Arabs"??? Were they kicked out or not? Make up your damn mind!!!
But I don't really need you to, of course. I know they were kicked out, and I know you just tried to justify it, and THAT is why I called you a bigot. I didn't say it out of thin air. I passed judgment on you based on WHAT YOU WROTE. And now, after you've contradicted yourself so embarrasingly, I'll pass judgment again:
You don't have a clue what you're talking about. It's time to concede you're wrong about absolutely everything. Try it. You'll feel better. I know I will.
baz
April 9th, 2011 at 9:07 am
Sorry, what i meant to say was that it should not come as a surprise IF Jews were kicked out of Arab lands in 1948. ..
I actually don’t have any information on this because there is no record of Arab governments deporting Jews. Certainly not exterminating them like you suggest.
I was merely setting a hypothetical example..
Think about it
(Edited.)
Bodkin
April 9th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Even if you truly forgot to write "IF" (and I have my doubts), it still sounds like you're justifying a mass expulsion of innocents. And when did I suggest that Arab countries exterminated Jews? Expulsion is one thing, but I said nothing of extermination.
And yet, now that you mention it, al-Husseini did in fact participate in the Nazi genocide. And considering that Arabs kicked Jews out only to attack them once they resettled in Israel, one could make a case that it was indeed an attempt at extermination using a kind of two-step strategy.
baz
April 9th, 2011 at 8:47 pm
you are confused dude…
fact – Israel is a racist apartheid state and is committing genocide against arabs
fact – there was never an arab genocide or expulsion of jews
this is all documented by historical evidence
David
April 10th, 2011 at 7:20 pm
Plus, they're not nearly as dead as they would be if the Bad Guys had killed them.