In March 2004, tens of thousands of Albanians rampaged across Kosovo, the occupied Serbian province then still nominally under UN and NATO authority. After three days of murder, arson, pillage, and ethnic cleansing, the 1999 myth of the noble "Kosovar" victims looked to be in tatters. Within weeks, however, the media machine was in overdrive and working the spin. From being initially described as a modern-day Kristallnacht and unmistakable ethnic cleansing, the pogrom was first sanitized into "ethnic clashes" (implying it was a two-sided affair), and eventually not mentioned at all — except as an argument why Kosovo should become an independent Albanian state (!).
Outfits like the IWPR, a government-funded NGO, gave ample space to KLA partisans to make the case about the pogrom really not being the Albanians’ fault. They even published a piece by KLA boss Hashim "Snake" Thaci, who argued that the real culprits were those evil Serbs, and the "international community" for denying his "Kosovars" their statehood.
The support for Thaci and the KLA was bipartisan; though renewed engagement in the Balkans looked like a Kerry policy in 2004, it was adopted as the Bush II platform in early 2005. The end result was the February 2008 "declaration of independence" by the Albanians.
If this sounds like a cautionary tale concerning the possible ramifications of the December 2010 Marty report, well, it should be. A month after the Swiss investigator made public the allegations that Thaci and the KLA were not only terrorists, but also murderers, drug and slave traffickers and dealers in stolen human body parts, the damage control is already in full swing.
The Art of Deflection
"Americans should feel betrayed" by the contents of the Marty report, began a January 8 op-ed in the Washington Post, written by Chuck Sudetic. Once a glory-hound reporter in the Balkans, then from 2001-2005 an employee of the Hague Inquisition (ICTY), Sudetic is noted as the "co-author" of ICTY prosecutor Carla Del Ponte’s famous memoir, where the charges of Albanian organ trafficking were first mentioned in the West.
That introductory sentence, however, is the strongest sentiment in the entire article. When it comes to what should actually be done about the hideous atrocities attributed to Thaci, Sudetic calls only for a "forceful public statement and … tough closed-door diplomacy." The Empire should examine Marty’s evidence, he argues, then set up yet another para-judicial body (or leave it to the ICTY, perhaps?) to put the suspects on trial. If any witnesses survive by then, of course. If the Albanians stall, the Empire should "force the resignation from public office of those responsible for the lack of cooperation." Scary!
Eventually, however, Sudetic flips all his cards over: "Washington should also ensure that Serbia, Russia and other countries do not misuse the Council of Europe report to undermine Kosovo’s legitimacy."
For something to be undermined, it first has to exist. That is not the case with the legitimacy of "Kosovo." There simply isn’t any, Empire’s pathetic word games aside.
BBC’s Manufactured Dissent
During the 1999 attack on what was then Yugoslavia, the BBC was one of the vocal NATO cheerleaders (its correspondent from the NATO HQ later got the job as Alliance spokesman). So it is both amazing and infuriating to hear Alistair Burnett, editor of BBC’s The World Tonight, talk about "reassessing Kosovo" today.
On one hand, Burnett is refreshingly frank when he says:
"The offensive against Serbia in 1999 was presented by western leaders as a humanitarian act to prevent widespread ethnic cleansing of Kosovo’s Albanian population by Slobodan Milosevic’s forces. This was widely accepted by western commentators at the time and since then reporting of the conflict in western media has been largely been framed as a story of Albanian victims and Serb aggressors."
Notice he doesn’t mention that every word of this reasoning, and the ensuing media coverage, was a lie. What he says is merely that "some of the recent commentary… has challenged this account and questioned whether the intervention and support for independence were misguided."
Oddly enough, one of the examples he quotes is Sudetic’s WaPo op-ed. Yet as his own words show, Sudetic emphatically did not challenge the notion of "independent Kosovo"; quite the contrary. Burnett’s other example, Neil Clark, has actually been arguing against the Kosovo war for a decade, and that without using euphemisms such as "misguided."
Burnett then had former UN administrator Gerard Galucci on his show, as yet another critic of the current situation.
Wishful Thinking
Galucci, an American, used to be the UN administrator in the city of Mitrovica. South of Mitrovica, the occupied province is dominated not just by Albanians, but by the KLA. The few non-Albanians that survive there live in ghettos, where the only thing between them and brutal death are barbed-wire enclosures and NATO "peacekeepers" — the very troops responsible for their predicament. In Mitrovica, though, the local Serbs made a stand on the bridge across the Ibar river and stopped the KLA in 1999. In that small strip of land in the north of the occupied province, Serbs actually survive — and other communities live unharmed. Thaci’s thugs have been trying to "reintegrate" Mitrovica ever since.
In May 2009, Galucci started a blog dedicated to Kosovo issues, "Outside the Walls." His position has been that of a reasonable individual seeking peace through splitting the difference. Since anything short of unequivocal endorsement of the KLA is taken for radical dissent, the KLA have labeled him a "Serb propagandist."
In a recent essay for TransConflict, Galucci argued that Kosovo was a "mess" that needed to be "cleaned up." But what does he suggest? That the "quint" of KLA sponsors should work with Russia to "clean up the mess." Had they been inclined to do so, they would not have endorsed the KLA’s declaration of independence in the first place! And he seems to believe that in return for Serbian recognition of KLA’s state, the Empire would recognize "Serbian interests, including economic and commercial and vis-à-vis the Church and the Serbian-majority north."
Even the current quislingocracy in Belgrade, absolutely obedient to Empire’s every whim, has not dared recognize the "Republic of Kosova." As for the Empire, its policy towards the Serbs has been rather consistent since the early 1990s: they are not allowed to have any interests at all.
Power and Right
Insofar as there is any dissent among the mainstream Western media concerning Kosovo, it falls in the range between Sudetic and Galucci. Both consider the "independent state of Kosovo" as an established, irreversible, legitimate fact, and have said as much, openly.
Hashim Thaci and his supporters have dismissed Marty’s report the same way they lashed out at the coverage of the March 2004 pogrom: it was all "Serbian propaganda," aimed at "tarnishing the image" of the KLA and its glorious war. Though not in the way he intended, Thaci is right. The argument is a gigantic Freudian slip, a glimpse of the KLA leader’s understanding what his "republic" is really based on.
Everything about the 1999 war was a lie. The alleged atrocities that NATO was allegedly responding to, the alleged plan for mass ethnic cleansing, the alleged mass murder of Albanians — fiction, all. That fiction was used to commit a crime against peace, seize a portion of a country by force, and turn it over to a criminal enterprise that actually committed atrocities and ethnic cleansing, actually trafficked in drugs, sex slaves, and human body parts.
Thaci’s claim to statehood is simple: Albanians deserve a state because the Serbs targeted them for genocide, they are a majority in the province, and they have effective control. The first claim is absolutely false. The second is a consequence of ethnic cleansing and abuse alternately encouraged and tolerated by the post-1945 Communist government in Yugoslavia. And the latter amounts to the "right" of conquest — by Imperial force, at that.
But force can only settle the matters of power, not right. In 1999, NATO’s force put the KLA into power. What happens when that power is diminished?
The truly damning part of Marty’s report is not the sordid list of KLA’s atrocities. It is the revelation that the Empire and European powers backing the KLA have been fully aware of Thaci’s crimes, yet chose for years to not just turn a blind eye, but suppress any knowledge of them in general. They may now be willing to throw Thaci under the proverbial bus to get rid of the major inconvenience the Marty report represents, but they are nowhere near abandoning their lethal fantasy of an "independent Kosovo."
Read more by Nebojsa Malic
- The Serbian Job – May 18th, 2012
- Tyranny of Good Intentions – May 3rd, 2012
- Between Hope and Despair – April 20th, 2012
- Hunger Games – March 29th, 2012
- Reality Rift – March 9th, 2012





@gresakg
January 14th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
I think west isn't ready to understand the south Balkan. West want's bad guys and good guys. They are, of course, but on both sides equally divided.
The only place on both sides where you will not find good guys is the governement. Reverse the governement and you'll get other corrupted people comming in. Normal people are working people and rare intelectuals.
While serbs are munch like normal south-european nation that just hates neighbours and have megalomaniac dreams, there are strong tribal bounds among Kosovars.
Serbian intelectuals aren't rare and are normal independent thinking people. Kosovar intelectuals stil depend on their tribes expectations and risk assassination in case of ignoring tribal interests. Their situation is problematic unless they immigrate.
I don't see an appropriate solution for the region, taking constant foreign military presence as no appropriate solution. I'm affraid no one can save them, maybe a lot of education and years of mediation politics to learn people to live together and a strong independent police to prevent criminality …
bozh
January 15th, 2011 at 7:55 am
a democracy, such as one in u.s., serbia, kosova, bosnia, croatia, et al appear as best fascist states imaginable.
govts in such governances [systems of rule] r not governed nor do such govts govern– they just impose their will [via deception] on their respective pops.
a govt may be sufficiently governed only via referendums, right to recall politicians, etc.
so to expect thachi, tadic, mesic, milosevic, tudjman, obama to behave timocraticly apears over-roseate. tnx
bozh
January 15th, 2011 at 8:12 am
"The second is a consequence of ethnic cleansing and abuse alternately encouraged and tolerated by the post-1945 Communist government in Yugoslavia. And the latter amounts to the "right" of conquest — by Imperial force, at that."
however, even NYT had reported violence post-tito against kosovo serbs. and i sure believe it????
the fact is, noncommunist and some communist serbs hated magyars, albanians, bosniaks, croats, germans [volsdeutscher of vojvodina].
these serbs were willing even to sacrifice thousands of serbs in croatia and bosnia in order to unite all serb 'holy' lands. tnx
bozh
January 15th, 2011 at 8:39 am
let's face it: what is taken in war can be returned only via a war. we thus see that Srpkska Krajina obtained by serb army in a soft war against croatia had been returned by a war.
serbs may have conquered kosovo centuries ago. be it as it may, kosova can be [re]conquered only thru a war.
this fact wld pertain to Republika Srpska of bosnia if u.n. wld recognize de jure RS as a second serbia.
i think that the world wld not ever allow setup of another serbia. de jure recognition of a second or third serbia wld most likely lead to more wars.
as i have said, history can generally be called or deemed a mystory and when it comes to bosnia, a fortiori so.
however, that bosnia had been peaceful in tito's yugoslavia; peoples [voelken] living there in relative harmony is not a mystory.
i see the signs that europe wld not allow another war in the balkans. it did allow serb aggressions starting '91. or even rooted from them. nearly all or maybe all leftists, along with most rightists,
in canada, have blamed the victims of serb aggressions. tnx
Emilyrose
January 15th, 2011 at 8:42 am
This expose of the criminal and terrorist activity has come at an interesting time.
Not only are many people in the west starting to reassess the ilegal attack on Yugoslavia as the realization of Blalr/Bush/Clinton war crimes become ever more obvious but the mood in, especially Europe, is moving into a new phrase.
Anyone with real knowledge knows how the majority in Kosovo was acheived.
Let us say migration and birth rate caused much of the situation and now these same two issues are causing consternation in much of Europe and some sympathy for what happened to the hapless Serbs.
We in Britain will be majority islamic in little more than a generation – and this is being repeated across the continent.
With the current birthrate in ten years ethnic minorities, fast becoming the majority as we give them benefits to help them breed, will be able to use our democracy against us.
Christian Europe is facing its Waterloo (or should I write Tours, Lepanto, Vienna) and with demands for Sharia and other islamic dogma there is slow panic and anger at what is coming.
How long before Britain, Belgian, Holland start facing demands for 'independence' within areas of fast growing islamicand ethnic enclaves which in Britains case include some of our major cities?.
The future looks grim.
MichaelKenny
January 15th, 2011 at 10:54 am
As usual, the author actually says nothing. It's as if he was flogging a dead propaganda horse in the hope of keeping it alive. In Switzerland, Marty's party has announced its strategy for the forthcoming federal election. They're focusing on immigration (!!!), which, in Switzerland, means primarily people from ex-Yugoslavia! What a surprise!
Hacklheber
January 15th, 2011 at 11:02 am
Well, then Europe will give up eating pork. It will take a century or two.
So what's the problem?
Jovan Milojevich
January 15th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
What are you talking about? You actually make no sense what-so-ever! No wonder you don't understand this article. And what is the "dead propaganda horse" you are referring to? Are you referring to this passage perhaps:
"Everything about the 1999 war was a lie. The alleged atrocities that NATO was allegedly responding to, the alleged plan for mass ethnic cleansing, the alleged mass murder of Albanians — fiction, all. That fiction was used to commit a crime against peace, seize a portion of a country by force, and turn it over to a criminal enterprise that actually committed atrocities and ethnic cleansing, actually trafficked in drugs, sex slaves, and human body parts."
Please, I would like to know (since you seem like the expert here), what part of this statement, or anything else from this article for that matter, is "dead propaganda"? Especially when it's completely supported by evidence and facts. Also, in case you haven't realized, Marty's report is a new revelation that is turning the (Western) view of Kosovo on its head. Yes, we knew about this before (Del Ponte) but it has finally been recognized by a prestigious and well-respected Western body (the Council of Europe). So I would hardly describe something that has only just became "officially" public a little over a month ago as "dead propaganda".
It is very easy to sit back and claim that something is a "lie" or "propaganda" and not give actual evidence to back it up. This tactic has been used time and again vis-à-vis Yugoslavia and, frankly, its time has passed. The general public has finally had enough of it and is ready for the truth…. so, as the saying goes, it's either time to put-up or shut-up!!!
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 15th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Grega, I would have been in wonder to agree with a Slovenian. But you saved my day with Serbs "hating neighbours and having megalomaniac dreams".
We don't hate neighbours. We want back what belongs to us. Serbs owned 63-64% of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Now large swaths of land are no more cultivated because there's no one left to cultivate them. The legitimate owners have been cleansed. And the citizenry prefers to live at foreign taxpayer's expense than to work.
The same goes in Kosovo. Why a land that definitely has enough natural resources to sustain itself is incapable of doing so. Density in Kosovo is lower than in the Netherlands or in Belgium. The soil is fertile. The underground is loaded with ore.
When Slovenians wanted their independent state, it wasn't a problem at all for Serbs, believe me. Actually, most were like me, too happy to get rid of you. All we wanted is to have the parts of Yugoslavia we inhabited as natives remain in one state. Because we fought for it and paid a steep price to have it.
And I'll remind you that no other country in the region provides minorities with as much rights as we do. Do Hungarians or Italians in Slovenia have the same rights as Hungarians in Serbia have for instance? How many remain actually?
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 15th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
About Kosovo, I forgot to mention, density is also lower than in Germany or England. When there were Serbs, there was a semblance of a legitimate economy, at least we were trying. Now that the West is in charge…
bozh
January 15th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
i am not sure that kosovars from '95 had not expected about the same treatment that muslims of bosnia received from '92. according to bosnian sources, 142k muslims were slain, 700k expelled and thousands of women raped.
note that this all happened after tito's death and when bosnia had been peaceful and prosperous.
croatia also attacked muslims, but got burned badly. present croat'n govt calls for wholeness of bosnia. how about serbia? well, i don't know.
i am sure that nato wld not allow two serbias. nato just had much power over serbs. and not to mention croatia, half of bosnia, much of vojvodina, kosovo, and albania on its side.
if tadic sees it as i do, he may lead serbs out of their century-old nightmare and belief in a fictive reality.
if that is the case, we can see that vele-serbs wld hate tadic. tnx
and according reporters on the scene close to one million kosovars have been expelled.
obviously with a purpose and vengeance. what was serb hope? we can only guess. was it mischievous a lark? or did they hope kosovars wld not dare return and thus undergoing the bombardment was the price to pay for getting rid of hated albanians and rightful owners of the land. tnx
Jovan Milojevich
January 15th, 2011 at 6:29 pm
meant to say "that has only just become" not "became". sorry for the typo
bozh
January 15th, 2011 at 7:01 pm
i am not sure that kosovars from '95 had not expected about the same treatment that muslims of bosnia received from '92. according to bosnian sources, 142k muslim had been slain, 700k expelled fro serb 'holy' land and thousands of women raped.
the harvest was indeed huge and makes every vele-serb very
happy.
the problem for serbs: while harvest was great, stiil no greater or better serbia.
in fact, it is smaller now and much poorer than in tito's days.
and nato wld never reward serbs with another serbia or the two serbia merging in one.
tnx
ps, this is my third try to post these facts!
bozh
January 15th, 2011 at 7:04 pm
so, smbody is preventing my posts from appearing. i posted 3 times the same or similar facts and each post had ben put on hold and not after many hrs published! tnx
but u still want my mnoney??
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 15th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
There's no way to make Serbians stop eating pork except… And I think the same applies to our arch-enemies, the German. Except… they're a bit more numerous than we are.
Btw, http://www.google.fr/search?as_q=which+is+healthi…
In short, the fact that I'm against criminal loons killing innocent Muslims doesn't mean that I'm willing to accept loon Muslims alter my way of life or turn blind eyes on them murdering a mother of five because she happens to be a dhimmi in Muslim land.
http://www.google.fr/search?as_q=&as_epq=Asia…
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 15th, 2011 at 7:42 pm
If my two comments in reply to Hacklheber bear more than a semblance of resemblance, it is because the first one was initially censored, like one I made in reply to @gresakg and that will probably never appear.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 15th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
And the last sentence is missing. It was "bozh the Macedonian-Croat whiner, stop whining, Serbs get sworded too on Antiwar".
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 15th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
Your money? They're an USA based NGO. Contrary to your country and mine, they're conscious over there about who contributes.
And, if I haven't contributed thus far it is because I don't want them to be labelled with a "foreign agent" etiquette, because I don't want them to contribute to NGOs in Serbia either. They definitely don't need your money. They need to convince their fellow "sheeple" Americans that the money they give for taxes would be far better used if deduced from their revenue declaration.
That's what, if you are truly Antiwar, you can help them achieve. Not making them pass for something they aren't, a fifth column servicing a foreign country.
Aleksandar
January 16th, 2011 at 5:21 am
No other country in the region provides minorities with as much rights? How about Macedonia in which the minorities are even mentioned in its constitution as constitutive people, i.e. Macedonia is no longer a national state of the Macedonian people. The same Macedonia in which Albanian is an official language in some parts, in which the parliament is bilingual… I am not approving this, nor I believe that it is a coincidence w.r.t. the Albanian strategy which seems supported by the powers that be. But people from Serbia, Croatia, etc. rarely take into account Macedonia and the happenings therein.
B..
January 16th, 2011 at 7:04 am
Jovan, don't sweat it. Kenny's reputation on this thread has been long-established (and confirmed countless number of times since) as a creepy cross-over between Stephen King's Misery (ie., his nauseating obsession with EVERYTHING that Malic writes on ANYTHING, despite Kenny's complete ignorance on the Balkans) and an average, all-too-familiar type of atrocity-denier, in case they've been committed against the Serbs (yet again evident in this disgusting comment of his, which, basically, says that Dick Marty is an evil immigration-skeptic, so he must be making the whole story up against that peace-loving, Kumbaya-chanting, Woodstock-kind-a-fellow Hashim Thaci).
B..
January 16th, 2011 at 7:07 am
Bozh,
you're boring as hell.
A LOT of comments gets lost/censored/removed (happened to me on AWC dozens of times). Either put up with the editing policy, or look for the greener pastures. But, stop whining in every other post, man. I mean, for crying out loud.
bozh
January 16th, 2011 at 7:26 am
if people get personal, i am only to glad for it. for peace for serbs, bosniaks, and croats of bosnia, a few insults are more that worth it. in add'n only i can insult self– nobody else can!
i see my posts in question appeared. i still don't see why this site ?randomly censors posts. many sites do not.
i post on truthidg. not a single post had ever been held back or deleted. tnx
bozh
January 16th, 2011 at 8:04 am
let me be clear on one issue: i deem islam, orthodoxy, and catholicism as sciences and as such can be analyzed for veracity, protreptics, usefulness or lack thereof or even their vitiating effects on ivan, jovan, or emir.
unlike catholics and orthodox serbs, i in no way blame catholics or orthodox who accepted islam some centuries ago.
however i do hold imams-ulema [body of mullahs], priests responsible for what happened in ww1, ww2, and '91-95.
all three of these sciences propagate hatred, intolerance, nescience, etc.
we can gather knowledge only thru our five senses– never by methodology which sacerdotal class uses: first u believe, then u prove existence of what u believe exists.
this reverses the natural order of evaluation: u first see, touch, smell, hear, taste and only thereafter draw any conclusion or guess about what had been seen-etc.
and god, allah, yahweh cannot be seen! thus, it cannot ever be known what these imaginary entities
want us to do, think, etc.
best one cld do is to consider nature inifinitely-valued and on level of believing conclude that we have a duopoly: god-devil.
in any case, we have tried god, and look where we r or had been! and still ruled with iron fist by masters of warfare-healthcare-education-infromation- people.
yes foks, we r owned, so change that even a bit by bit and we wld have seen the change one cld hope for!
however, serbs, croats, albanians r still living in very dark ages and ruled by the worst people among them!
so greater croatia or greater serbia, still nothing changes for emir, jovan, or ivo. tnx
bozh
January 16th, 2011 at 9:50 am
l have already noted that serbs, after either conquering or even peacefully settling kosovo, did not, cld not, or didn't want to serbianize albanians.
as i have said, serb nat'l church had been over a millennium selling serbs a myth: kosovo is serbian.
once serbs discover that 90% of kosovo pop is albanian or illyrian, it had to be 'explained' : albanians immigrated into kosovo ove the last c. or so.
meanwhile catholic priests waged own ignorance against croatians: bosnia had always been croat'n; muslims r croatians; serbs fled from turks and settled bosnia.
ok, there is some truth that some serbs have fled from occupied serbia. but does it really matter–relevant to state making– what happened centuries ago?
do we need to orient selves by segniority rights at all?
i say no; it shld not matter. what mattered [and what matters in some aspects today also] is how the citizens of bosnia felt about their ethnic origin in, say, '80!
of course, never ever it be a factor in waging wars but waging peace!
natch, veliko-croats, glorying in kings tomislav, tvrtko; veliko-serbs, glorifying also their own as dark and oppresive past as that of croats, cannot espy or admit this truth.
even i had been deluded by veliko-croats; however, around '80 i began to delve into these matters.
and discovered that structure of rule and society in its abcds had not changed an iota since the first ever priestly rule emerged in sumer.
vele-croats and vele-serbs were smwhat more deluded than, say, slovaks or czechs, but because of circumstances beyond our control.
i can see now some croats reading this post going ballistic over the facts, conclusions i have posited. but ur jig is up! give it up and work for a much more egalitarian and timocratic society!
tnx
AngelaKeaton
January 16th, 2011 at 9:52 am
Bozh,
No one is censoring your posts. We have a small staff that works constantly. Approving all the comments is not the highest priority. Combine that with the fact that most of us aren't from the left, and you get a bad attitude.
You would have a bad attitude too if you saw the violence all around you and you are paying for it.
Peace,
Keaton
andy
January 16th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
Why did America get involved in this mess?
bozh
January 16th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
dear angela, some of my posts do not appear. the three posts i sent to antiwar did appear after i complained of being held up.
however, many hrs after i actually posted them. did they appear because i complained? and some people then decided to read or read-post them?
nobody's complaining on this site that his/her post does not appear! privatization of this site cannot be a justifiable cause for not allowing posts to appear. there r many site which r ran by individuals, yet do not ban any post unless it is flagged. tnx
3oka
January 16th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
Why?
1. Natural resource:
– biggest deposits of zinc, lead and silver in Europe.
– billions of tones of coal
– fertile land that can feed half of Europe (Monsanto everyone)
– plenty of pure water
2. Strategic position
– free pasage for NATO from Croatia, Montenegro and Macedonia to Bulgario and Black sea
3. Cash
– Albanians from Kosovo already hold 80% of Europe's drug trade (import from Afganistan)
4. Muslims
– as Albanians are predominantly muslim any support to them looks good in islamic world
5. And so on…
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 16th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
Also indications of presence of uranium and of big reserves of underground water.
One damper to your post: Monsanto. If they get there, hardly anyone will be fed by crops grown in Kosovo. For instance, http://www.google.fr/search?num=50&hl=fr&…
Yet, Kosovo Albanians can't sustain themselves but they need foreign taxpayers' help just as they were literally fed by Serbs before the NATO aggression. Isn't that ironic?
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 16th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Stop whining. I get sworded too. Sometimes I do complain to the moderator, sometimes I don't, simply because I'm modest enough to admit that my censored comments were 1) unlikely to change the world any way 2) unlikely to better mutual understanding.
And btw, and for God's sake, if you have so much to say, start a blog. It really is a waste of time to have to scroll down your comments in order to get to read an informed opinion.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 16th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
Spreading proven falsehoods again. Where do you get your numbers? According to you, the ICTY in the Hague acts as an appeaser for Serbs, given that their numbers are far lower than yours. Even Mirsad Tokaca is an appeaser, since his numbers too are lower than yours.
"Rightful owners"? Ever heard of the notion of "private property"?
Eric Siverson
January 17th, 2011 at 1:03 am
Becuase Russia was not in a position to respond . Russia was weak and bankrupt , The new United socialist Germany always wanted to control the Balkans , This was the 3rd German attack on Yugoslavia in the last century . Russia maybe would even come now , but Serbia has to ask them , but this quizling Serb goverenment won't ask Russia for help . It seems they would rather lose the whole country . Aleksander Solhenitsyn went home to his beloved Russia and his Orthadox Church he said after the bombing of the orthadox christians in Yugoslavia " NATO was the same as Hitler "
The Russian Orthadox Church and Solhenitsyn Replaced Yelsin's new democratic liberal party , with thier strong man Putin the United Russian party . Becuase Yelsin failed to protect the Orthadox Serbian Christians . Putin immediately set out to restablish Russia historic Judo Christian roots by encouraging christian churches throughout Russia . He also remodeled and expanded weapon manufactoring plants , To make money selling arms all over the world .
Emilyrose
January 17th, 2011 at 4:45 am
Why did America get involved in this mess?
Drugs and oil.
Kosovo is the conduit state for the forwarding of heroin from its Afghani source.
Why are the Yanks in Afghanistan. Same reasons.
Their islamic puppets the Taliban (shades of the KLA, Chechens?) were stopping the poppies.
Thanks to the deaths of thousands of Afghans, Americans and Brits the poppies are thriving once again. So thats alright then!
Check the internet, the CIA are the biggest drug smugglers on the planet – funds all their unpleasant little black ops.
They needed a secure Kosovo for transit. Milosevich wouldn't play ball.
Then of course there was the planned US/Israeli effort to literally steal Caspian oil.
The pipelines were planned across Serbia etc. Again Milosevich wouldn't play the great game.
I really get annoyed that so many of us defend and support the Serbs in every way we can but they have chosen to roll over and get stamped on in the phony dream of the EU.
Who wants it? We in Britain just want out and we are imprisoned like a former Soviet satellite in the new EUSSR.
Get over it Serbs!
The new strong man, and one who commands great respect everywhere, is PM Putin. Count your lucky stars he is there and wake up your ideas.
Russia is the coming country. Get your running shoes on and back this winner. The west has been sold down the drain by greedy bankers, not least many of the same kind as the Russian Oligarchs, and treasonous politicians. We are the past.
Putin has proved he can and will deal with these parasites. City of London and Wall Street could do with a tadge of Putinism, believe me.
paleo
January 17th, 2011 at 7:13 am
Your figure for refugees is quite a bit off, your victor of casualties is at least 2X the established number of all (military and civilian) and more than 4X greater than the established number of civilian casualties.
bozh
January 17th, 2011 at 7:46 am
the bottom line? anyone interested in finding what it is today for serbia and croatia?
may i tell what i found out? no greater-better serbia nor croatia.
so, go on serbs hating-owning serbs and croats hating-owning croats.
sow ur hatred, intolerance, nescience, etc., against a person on the street all u want, but monopolic [or duopolic, if u will] god-devil or devilgod will come for u.
as of absolute certain and desirable truth! tnx
Eric Siverson
January 17th, 2011 at 10:10 pm
Yelsin's new liberal democracy was just to corrupt and bankrupt to accomplish what Solzhenitsyn thought should be done . No one dares to demonize Aleksander Solzhenitsyn . It was he that supported Putin .even after Putin over turned many of Yelsin's liberal democratic ideas . Solzhenitsyn goal was to strengthen Russia fast . So fast that NATO would not dare to do to Russia what they did to Yugoslavia . I believe Putin accomplished Aleksanders Solzhenisyn's goal before Solzhenitsyn died . IF NATO was right in Yugoslavia Hitler was also right . Solzhenitsyn said NATO and Hitler were the same . I dont think Solzhenistyn was foolish and wrong in selecting Putin .Nor do I think Putin made a bad decision in backing Medvedev for Russia's next president . . Milosevic tried to make peace evreyway possible and he actually secured a couple of agreements in Bosnia and Kosovo , that protected most Serbs . But NATO has done evreything possible to renege on these agreed upon agreements . Sad but I have to agree with Solzhenitsyn" NATO is the same as Hitler ".
Eric Siverson
January 17th, 2011 at 10:31 pm
Yes Bozh ,Hate is very hard on the person owning or having the hate . It truley is of the devil .
3oka
January 18th, 2011 at 6:39 am
Can somebody tell me how to put this idiot and spammer on ignore?
Does this script have such a feature?
Rad
January 18th, 2011 at 10:41 am
Just one reminder to you: i If Krajina Serbs should return Krajina to Croatia
what do you think about the Croats to return Dalmatia to their rightful owners
Italians or Greeks. You got Dalmatia, Istria and more grace to the Serbs.
You are from Sibenik and I suspect that you are one of these converts
trying very hard to malign your own ancestry.
Just to remind the some of the readers to read about the F, Schiller's
"The Wallensteins "and to get a real picture about the Croats.
You started much before 'Jasenovac'. You are kind of 'war dogs' always
fighting on behalf of your masters. At least you should not be heard.
I wonder about the patience of A/W in posting anything from you.
bozh
January 18th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
of course, present dalmatia, or even one since, say, 15th c. is not dalmatia, when it and its walled towns belonged to byzantium.
until a point of time, say, 12th c. there was no croats in the dalmatian towns. however, they slowly migrated into towns and eventually completely croatianized its largely illyrian pop.
not the roman pop, tho.
roman pop constituted about ten% of towns folk. they left dalmatia for italy sept '43 after italy's capitulation.
most of them collaborated with fascist italy or even informing italians of communist youths who were organizing partisan resistance.
my dad had been interned. he was not executed because he had wife and three children. about 200 sibenik youths had been executed! the town lost another 800 lives as resistance fighters.
i am not, along at least 70% of dalmatians, purely slavic. we are an admixture of who knows what: goths, avars, romans, serbs, thracians, illyrians, wallachs, and croats.
this is only a curioso. today's dalmatians look to zagreb. dalmatia is our land and had been for millennia.
as for krajina, it is as much part of croatia as sumadija is part of serbia. if u'd look at some serbs of croatia, u'd see there is nothing slavic about them. such people came from wallachia [in present day romania] to serbia and bosnia and from there to croatia in 16th and 17th c.
i do have nothing against serbs and wallachs who came to croatia. however, once they opted for dismemberment of croatia, i am glad most of them are forever gone.
never again can serbia, or 50-70% of its pop, use and abuse the serb minority of croatia in order to expand its territory.
the state of SHS protected also serbia from bulgaria, hungary, and albania. slovenes feared germanization, croats had problems with italy and hungary
creating that state was a good deal for all of its peoples. it was not ever good enough for chetniks. tnx
bozh
January 18th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
i too wonder why antiwar publishes most of my posts. but why do serbs read my posts, when they get so upset over what we know and say we know?
i seldom read serb posts! tnx
Eric Siverson
January 18th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
Croatia is like Kosovo . It has never before been a independant country , accept under Hitler .Croatia was the land of the Croats and Serbs while part of Yugoslavia . Croatia seperated from Yugoslavia to a new independant country the land of the Croats . No mention of the Serbs , They could just leave if they did not like it . The NAZIs that had fled after ww2 returned and persecuted the Serbs . by blowing up thier houses , and firing them from thier jobs . Both Croats and Serbs are the same Slavic people even speak the same language , Croats are Roman Catholics with very strong warm feelings for nazis . Serbs are Orthadox christians with very cold feelings for the nazis .
Eric Siverson
January 18th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
I really havent been upset with you . I just think the Serbs got a bad deal all the way around . If Croatia wanted to be independant and The Serbs did not , but wanted to stay in Yugolsvia , The Majority Serb Areas should have been allowed to stay in Yugoslavia . If a election would have been held in all of Yugoslavia , Croatia would not have been allowed to leave . If outsde forces with thier sanctions had kept thier noses out of Yugslavia's buisness . Yugoslavia would most likely still be a good powerfull european country with considerabley more influence than any of these little republics could ever dream of having again . Russia is very upset about what happend to Yugoslavia and the Orthadox Christians . If they find out that some Russian citizens were captured so thier body parts could be sold by that new country of Kosovo you recognized so quickly . Any thing could happend . You know you live in the Balkans ,
Eric Siverson
January 18th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Germany has already been warned on what will happend to them . Oh ! I believe NATO could lick Russia , but Russia could sure make them wish they had not done it . becuase afterwards Liberia or Israel or Norway might be the most powerfull counties left on the earth .
Aleksander Solhenitsyn the famous Russian dissident that the communists kicked out of Russia said '" NATO is the same as Hitler " I hope you remember what the Russians done to Hitler .
Come to think of It Bozh . Nazi is one of Croatia's main problems isnt it , I think your first president or prime minister Trudgman was a former nazi in Hitlers Army . seems to me Croatia built a Memorial for the nazi croats that were killed in the second ww just recently , you are Also flying pretty much the same flag you first flew with Hitler . No doubt that wonderfull singer Thompson is a glorious NAZI himself . Could it be that Croatia dosen't want to join the E.U. , becuase the EU wont accept NAZIs , and you people want to be nazis ?
B..
January 19th, 2011 at 4:29 am
Eric, as we speak, the kids in Croatia are REQUIRED to read (as a part of the FORMAL education in Croatian literature in schools) a novel written by none other than the notorious Ustasha war criminal Mile Budak (one of Pavelic's ministers and the author of the Holocaust motto in Nazi croatia in 1941, "Kill one third of Serbs, expel another third, and convert the last third"). The novel was written in the 1930s, and it's titled "Opanci dida Vidurine" (Grandpa Vidurina's Shoes). I repeat, the novel written by that monster is a part of the curriculum in STATE SCHOOLS in today's (allegedly de-Tudjmanized, democratic and tolerant, but also heavily de-Serbicized) Croatia. Unthinkable.
And, yes, Jasenovac (and the whole genocide against Serbs, Jews and Roma in Croatia 1941-45) is being routinely minimized while Ustashas are being treated as just another warring side, their crimes obscured and rarely mentioned.
B..
January 19th, 2011 at 4:47 am
@bozh
You are confusing the Vlachs from Wallachia (Vlaska) in today's Rumania with the old stock of Dinaric Vlach tribes (Starovlasi), present in the area since (at least) the early Slavic settlements. Graduaslly mixed with Slavs, the Old Vlachs (starovlasi) were the key ingrediantduring the formation of today's Stokavian-dialect-speaking South Slavic peoples (mainly Serrbs, Croats and today's Bosniacs ie Bosnian Muslims). There are many families in(or hailing from) Dalmatian coast (or Dinaric littoral in its surroundings) still bearing the same family names, but belonging to different nations (Serbs, Croats, also some Muslim families). So, you're basically repating the whole Croatian wishful-thinking nationalist agenda about the Serbs being some "intruders" from beyond Balkans. Not to mention this ugly racial-profiling business of yours ("they don't even look like Slavs", I mean, c'mon, man).
As for Rumanian Vlachs, they have a long history of relations with Serbs, though mostly in the areas belonging to the eastern parts of today's Serbia (or the west of Rumania), hundreds of miles eastward from Adriatic coast.
Besides, there would be NOTHING wrong with Krajina Serbs even if they ALL have moved from Rumania, Bulgaria, Madagascar, Scotland or Australia. They haven't STOLEN the Krajina from the Croats (as your chauvinist historians fueled by ustasha lingo are dreamin' up), but fought for that area against the Turks (and sometimes Venetians or Austrians for centuries. We're talking the mid-to-late Middle Ages here, and the Balkans have been reshaped and mixed-up aat least DOZEN times since. You cannot expect that ANYONE would seriously go along with Croatian (or Kosovo Albanian) fairy-tales which are, basically, saying, "we claim this or that land the part of our ancestry, based of some chauvinist blood-&-soil- agenda thought up in late XIX-century and clouded in racist mythology".
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 19th, 2011 at 5:31 am
bozh knows zilch about History. I don't know who fed him with so much ignorance but that one was successful too in putting blinds on the sides of our guy.
Don't bother answer his derogatory remarks. Croatian "culture" is a Yugoslav myth. His lack of culture is more than bulletproof, it is nuclear bomb resistant evidence of it.
Deign answer him only when he starts dealing with numbers because to Westerners numbers are more important than ethics. And our former "brothers" have both numbers and ethics all wrong.
paleo
January 19th, 2011 at 7:25 am
Thanks for pointing this out to people who may not know. The Wlach/Woloch designation is an ancient Slavic name for all Romance speakers, just like Germanic tribes were called Nemci ("mute ones") and Germans are still called Nemci. To this day in Polish Italy is called Wlochy. The fact that many Serbs may have Vlach origins is nothing new, but I fail to see the point. Many Romanians, Hungarians, and Greeks have Slav blood. Many Russians have Norse blood. Who cares and what does that have to do with anything?
And you are correct. Following the Roman period in the Balkans, the area was devastated by barbaric tribes including Goths and later on Avars. Slavs settled a bit later and assimilated native populations, who were mostly Latin or Greek speaking at the time (depending on the Jiricek line, which demarcates Latin vs. Greek influence). After Slavicization, the Latin speakers could be broken up into those speaking Eastern/Balkan Romance, which is the ancestor of modern Romanian; and Dalmatian Romance, which has died out. Balkan Romance would have been spoken in Romania, the Morava valley, and perhaps a bit further west, but certainly had nothing to do with the Vlachs that may have contributed to Krajina Serb ancestry (as bozh incorrectly alludes to). Dalmatian Vlachs survived in the coastal towns of Dalmatia and in more isolated mountainous terrain in the Dinaric alps; these may have contributed to the Krajina Serbs. At any rate, these people would have been native to that mountain range that runs from Slovenia to Albania, and have nothing to do with Romania. They were, at least in relation to Croats, autochthonous. It seems to me that many Croats are trying to use the alleged Vlach origins of some Serbs as a sort of insult; this is probably rooted in more ancient prejudices Slavs (primarily peasants, very much tied to the land) had against Vlachs (primarily livestock herders, more mobile). I'm wondering what their modern conception of the whole things is (being that modern Nazi Croats are ashamed of their Slav blood), since Vlachs preceded Slavs in the Dinaric Alps and thus this would weaken Croatian claims to historical precedence over Serbs in the area. But then again, Croat fascists were never good at history, or logic.
bozh
January 19th, 2011 at 9:36 am
eric,
not all croats fought for fascist italy and nazi germany in ww2. in add'n, croatia just like now afgh'n and iraq had been puppetized by italy and germany.
northern croatians and bosnian croats, broadly, strongly supported the fantom state– croats along the adriatic coast strongly opposed and by military resistance.
as for tudjman, he was also a partisan fighter. i do think he did eventually abandoned socialism and even he or croat'n govt attacked bosniaks [muslims] in early '93 in order to create a greater croatia.
as for other of ur statements, i have adequately-accurately refuted by in my numerous posts.
balkan voelken have been denigraded by West an du'r continuing to that self.
these peoples r just like all other peoples. circumstances beyond our control brought us lots of warfare, loss of population, hatred, nescience, bad religions, etc. tnx
bozh
January 19th, 2011 at 10:29 am
croat'n historians nor croats speak of old wallachs. we only know of wallachs or vlasi. thracians, now living in n.e.greece, were the first inhabitants in the area known as yugoslavia.
then came illyrians, followed by kelts, goths, avars, and slavs.
wallachia did exist, but in s.w. rumania. after turkish invasions of also wallachia, they began migrating to the west.
even my own dad looked like an illyrian. so, am i looking dwn on him because of his skin?
most serbs and wallachs came to croatia at the invitation of emperor ferdinand in 17thc. but long after battle of krbava 1493 in which almost entire croat'n nobility perished and after suleiman the great decided to focus on vienna.
as historians say, it had been germans, czechs, slovaks, rumanians, poles [led by sobieski 1683] austrians, slovenes, magyars, and croats who bled for 3c in order to defend their lands from turkish invaders.
serbia slept like a baby thrughout that time. in fact, it expanded its territory during that time while hungary entirely disappeared and of croatia only remnants of remnants left.
even my birhttown had been besieged by turks on three occasions in 16th c. but were repelled. even women and children were involved in the battles.
all this is a curioso. and does not suggest one draw any conclusions regarding serb recent aggressions against slovenia-et al, or serbo-wallachian wish to wrest a piece of croatia and add it to the other three or for serbias.
however, serb expansion has come to an end!
btw? age of churches in bosnia and croatia tell who inhabited their environ at the time they were built.
some muslims assert that there had not been a single othodox church in bosnia [sans herzegovina] until bosnia had been conquered by turks in 1463.
it shld be obvious what the serbs intend: by all means draw attention to mysterious history, mute and trivial details that cannot be proven or disproved, but always remain silent about recent serb aggressions and enorm crimes.
it aint gonna work! not on me. i am quite aware of the ancient ruse!
bozh
January 19th, 2011 at 10:54 am
paleo,
no croatian or any croat historians has asserted to date that wallachs inhabited bosnia and croatia prior to turkish invasions of the two regions.
once again i say, i am an egalitarian; i.e. nonsupremacistic on all levels: personal, ethnic, or religious level.
in fact, i think of all religions as the greatest bane that befell us humans.
ur conclusions, from what i say, is urs. so, conclude, but own them or stop concluding and then ascribing them to s'mone else.
i have never said wallachs r inferior or meaner people that any other!
btw? italians r wallachs to some poles??? tnx
EPP
January 19th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
This page lists all of the Hindu and Christian MPs in Pakistan's National assembly: http://www.na.gov.pk/nonmuslim.html
Pakistan has had a Catholic Supreme Court Chief Justice, from 1960-1968; Alvin Robert Cornelius: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Robert_Corneli…
Also a Hindu Supreme court judge recently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rana_Bhagwandas
Pakistani Christians are also some of the best fighter pilots in the Pakistani Air force: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_Chaudhry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Christy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_MiddlecoaT
epp
January 19th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Pakistan's top female fashion models are also Christian, such as Suneeta Marsha, Gia Ali, and Rachel Gill. If you check out their video clips on youtube, you will find them wearing not-so-conservative clothing such as skin tight jeans and leggings. They also act in our drama serials on TV. Pakistan's top fashion designer, Deepak Perwani is a Hindu.
CNN did a story on Karachi's Fashion Week, but neglected to mention the minority presence in Pakistan's fashion and entertainment industry.
If Pakistani female models, who believe Jesus is their lord and savior, can strut around in provocative clothing, their condition cannot be thatbad, at least not as bad as any other regular Pakistani.
bozh
January 19th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
i too wonder why antiwar publishes most of my posts. but why do serbs read my posts
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 19th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
I don't give a darn f*ck about fashion models anywhere. And I don't think that Jesus is the lord and saviour of ordinary whores. Of course fundamentalist Islam tolerates them, they're living proof of the infidels' depravity. Asia Bibi is an ordinary hard working, not douche fucking, Christian mother of five. That you don't see the difference demonstrates only the level of your idiocy.
As for morons doing all they can to prove their loyalty to any state they happen to be submitted, especially when they're members of a minority within, that too is a non-argument.
R........
January 19th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
They don't. They just go around you. You wasting your energy here.
bozh
January 19th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
serbs on this site and all serbs who still dream about a greater serbia ought to be aware that what croats do in croatia today is none of their business and that they will never again use serb minorities with the aim to create a bigger serbia.
if serbs maximize serb victims, we will minimize them and there is nothing serbs can do about it except seek a scientific inquiry in all deaths of former yugoslavia. tnx
we will never ever make any deals with serbs with serb threats hanging over us.
serbia is no longer a military threat to macedonia, kosovo, bosnia, or croatia. serbia is also surrounded by enemies: hungarians, bulgars, albanians, macedonians, and croatians.
and there is always nato willing to attack serbs if the'd attack anyone!
i think tadic know this.
i also think that no croat'n war criminal wld ever be extradited to serbia and answer to any serb for his aleged crimes.
he'l only answer to icty and croatia. get over it, u r no longer in charge of nations. even ur staunchest friends such as u.k. and france had enough of some serbs.
paleo
January 19th, 2011 at 9:16 pm
I thought about responding to bozh, but then I realized that he's just a spammer and not worth my time. Most of what he's said is either incoherent rambling with no logical structure or outright lies. (If someone wants more clarification on these issues because he's ill-acquainted with how things stand, feel free to say so and I will try to explain the truth as I understand it. For your sake, not bozh's.)
Remember what God says about lies, bozh:
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
and
Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
and
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
It's up to you whether you will repent and tell the truth, or will continue saying things you know to be falsehoods and ignominiously spitting venom on the victims of a genocide your people perpetrated less than 70 years ago and replayed less than 20 years ago. Continue thus and you, the other Ustasa (the dead ones and the living ones and the ones that have yet to be born), and this shameless Croat nation of murderers, thieves, and liars to which you belong will give an account to God some day.
Emilyrose
January 20th, 2011 at 4:21 am
What amazes me is the international outrage at the mass murder of Jasenovac.
No international commemoration there.
A bit like the 30 million Russians who died in unmentionable circumstances, many suffering deaths worse than that meeted out to any 'official victims' that are remembered year in and year out and paid enormous never ending reparations.
It was these Russians who turned back the Germans with their real blood sacrifice.
Jasenovac?
Nil. Zero, written out of history like the lies told to initiate the illegal attack on Serbia. LIke the truth of Racak. Like the mass graves that weren't.
Most people have never heard of Jasenovac. Unaware of its existence and its historical significance in the Serbo/Croat relationship.
Why ?
Could it be that the majority of the brutalised and murdered victims happened to be of the wrong sort of faith and ethnicity.
Just more inconvenient and collatoral damage to the new political reality of drugs and oil.
bozh
January 20th, 2011 at 10:36 am
monopolic power goddevil or devilgod has been with us [or rather in some societies, starting with sumerian one] fro possibly 15 k yrs.
to priests, there exist two powers: god and devil. this, folks, cld be called the greatest and most vitiating lie ever told
which led to untold number of priestly wars; slavery, ownership of land-people by sacerdotal or clerico-noble people.
and the more this class of people wage their 'civilization', the greater their evildoings. also spricht bozhidarevski, son of a peasant; totally unschooled [thanks devilshgodly monopolic powers], unmeritocratic, fierecly pro the weakest members in any society. tnx
epp
January 20th, 2011 at 10:50 am
Why are fashion models now whores? They are all married women and married to Christian husbands in Pakistan. I don't think these models are depraved, but maybe you do, because you are intolerant. The point I am making is that in Pakistan, discrimination happens on many levels such as ethnic and socio-economic. If Asia Bibi was a rich woman, she never would have been charged. Muslims too have been charged under this law because of family feuds. I don't agree with this particular law that Pakistan has, which was instituted by the US supported dictator Zia Haq.
Have you ever talked to any of these "morons"? Why are you against them working and earning an living?
epp
January 20th, 2011 at 10:52 am
It also doesn't matter what you think at all. It doesn't matter if you don't think Jesus is the lord and saviour of these Pakistani Christians. What matters is that these Pakistani Christians believe that Jesus is their lord and saviour.
epp
January 20th, 2011 at 10:54 am
And no, Islamic groups in Pakistan are very much against the fashion and entertainment industry in Pakistan.
bozh
January 20th, 2011 at 11:16 am
to me, it is of utmost import what nato wants in the balkans. and more particularly, what nato [seems u.n.'s wishes don't matter an iota] want in BH.
it seems we have available three setups or 'solutions': splitting BH in three parts, recognizing dejure each part as an independent state, or setting up a greater serbia or even croatia.
it seems to me that most croats wld go for that 'solution'. i put the word "solution" under single quotes to indicate that such a setup cannot be done humanely.
i think an overwhelming number of serbs wld be overjoyed if Srpska wld join serbia.
however, turkey, albania, croatia, hungary, muslim BH, slovenia, bulgaria, montenegro wld be, i expect, at least annoyed about such a setup.
so, go or not? i say, no go! that option cld even lead to more wars and not just to widespread fears and disturbances.
this site is dominated by serbs. they obviously avoid talking about these issues. to malic and these velikoserbs on this site and in the world, there is only one option: wage wars [and thus sacrifice own people] in order to conquer parts of croatia, bosnia, s.serbia [macedonia] and whole of kosovo even tho it had never been serb– only obtained thru warfare.
and they have no shame of leading mns of people to death, injury, or dispersement!
what puzzzles me is, how an antiwar site publishes such horrifying posts and maliches call to arms and more terror, and mostly for serbs, just so that they cld obtain their dream? tnx
Alban
January 20th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Dear Eric! Kosova IS an independent country as we speak. It has been so formally for over two years now, and it will continue to be for centuries to come. Kosova and kosovar albanians have always been independent people, knowing they lived in their ancestors land, weather that land was occupied by turks or serbs or others before them. To all hatemongers in this forum: Nobody lost Kosova! Kosova is really its people. These people, albanians, serbs, turks etc…. lived there for centuries. They want to leave in peace in their own land. They certainly do not miss the times when serbs took their (very limited) autonomy away, closed their university, forbid the use of their language in public institutions, got killed in buried in massive graves, and mass ex-pulsed several times in genocide. These people want to leave free of their tormentors! Weather this website agrees or not, the whole world saw what Serbs did to Kosovars and will never forget this again. Like it or not, but Serbs are isolated in the region, due to their own actions! It is time serbs start looking to build bridges and live peacefully with their neighbors. People in this forum would do a great service to each other and to the region by fostering understanding and reconciliation. Please, Mr.Malic, for the n….th time, I urge you to stop spreading hate!!!!! Stop dragging and feeding the hatemongers. As a person that writes well, you can contribute a lot to peace. Better late than never!
bozh
January 20th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
most serbs never wanted to live in any yugoslavia. they had since their emancipation in 19th c. always wanted to live in serbia only.
it is true, that croatia lost its independence in 1102. however, a people always lived there. so, please no confusion about, say, irish not being independent and their right to become independent.
such a view that u espouse is an imperialistic one: denying and denigrading healthy nationalism, while blessing imperialism.
imperialism is much greater an evil than nationalism.
in regards to this, i wrote '90 to 96 hundreds of letters to canadian, u.s., german, french, and u.k. govts.
in many lands u'l find minorities. slovakia, rumania, and serbia have hungarian minorities. germans lived in serbia, rumania, russia, czechland, slovakia, hungary, poland.
however, only germany [under hitler] and serbia declared: either u willingly surrender the lands in which we respectively form a majority, or there is gonna be bloodshed, for the lands we want r respectively german and serb holy lands.
we know what happened to nazi germany. and we know what happened to serbia in '95 and '99.
belief that parts of croatia, bosnia r serb holy lands had gone to serb bones and every cell of their bodies.
how that happens, pavlov's experiment elucidates. a conditioning occurs in which the dog eventually identifies a bell with actual food; i.e., poor dog salivates at mere bell even tho there is no food there.
similarly, a serb salivates at mere mention of serb 'holy' lands, serb flags, other emblems even tho such symbols represent fancies or even stark reality, like serbia living under a turkish yoke for over four c. and r mad as hell at people who bled for that many c. to enable them to get rid of turks.
as refugees, hungary, bosnia, and croatia accepted these people only to bitterly regret it since ca end of 19th c.
it was ok by them when germans, austrians bled for serb emancipation, but when austria said no to serb annexation of croatia and bosnia, the began to hate their liberators.
and that had been the reason why serbia– by assassinating archduke ferdinand– helped start the ww1; in which over 20mn youths died.
i recall that even canadian govt in the '90's was taken aback at this revelation. tnx
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 20th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
Three replies to a single one. I happen to have worked in a luxury hotel in Paris when I was a student. And I happen to have serviced quite a few top models. All I can say about them, they're anorexic nymphomaniac drug addicts. I wont' quote names, but quite a few of those I've seen have made it into the tabloids anyway for precisely the reasons I just mentioned. So I consider top models to be just as Christian as paedophile Roman Catholic priests.
As for the morons, well maybe it's because of the US and stuff like "Top Gun" or "Officer and Gentleman", but I do consider them to be… morons. Making a living by murdering people from thousands of feet above is not exactly what I call a decent way to earn a living.
The only point we agree about is Asia Bibi's fate. But, however hard I look, I see no mention of her in the posts I've replied to, but I do see a lot of glorifying of the most futile profession on planet Earth and of the most murderous profession on planet Earth.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 20th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
After a second reading, your posts are so full of contradictions that one doesn't know where to start to dispel your confusion.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 20th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
"Also spracht Zarathustra"?
Get your paraphrases right before using them. And a bit modesty wouldn't hurt either.
Eric Siverson
January 20th, 2011 at 8:53 pm
Alban We have to understand who is telling the most Truth and who is telling the most lies . I know there was fine people on both sides , and of course bad people on both sides . I decided The KLA terrorists were the worste in Kosovo . Yes there were criminals on both sides . I recall a Serb family that protected thier Albanian neighbors evreytime the Serb Criminals attacked and robbed the Albanians . The Albanian family also protected the Serb family . Finaly the Albanian family told the Serbs you have to run becuase we can't protect you any more . They gave the Serbs thier best guns and helped them . You have to realize there are always a lot of lies in evrey war . The main reason I turned against the KLA was they actually killed more Albanians than Serbs . This might have been becuase AlQaida was fighting on the KLA side . I also found the Albanians to be not very honest in court . This again maybe becuase anybody testifieing , saying things that might not portrey the KLA in a good way , did not have a very good life expectancy .
Eric Siverson
January 20th, 2011 at 9:24 pm
Kosovo is not a independant country they get more foreign aid per person than any country . They would more correctly be called a dependant country .
Eric Siverson
January 20th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
NATO bombed Yugoslavia when I dont think Yugoslavia did anything wrong . Aleksander Solhenisyn said " NATO is the same as Hitler " I had to agree with him . NATO bombed the Orthadox christians in Croatia ,Bosnia and finally Serbia . United States partnered again with Osama bin Ladens AlQaida , and Germany and trained KLA terrorists to be freedom fighters in Albania . I followed presidents Milosvic's trail In the Hague court again I was forced to side with the Serbs against the NATO court . The Hague court came up very short of my expectations , but than maybe not if you look at the court as a Hitler court . We installed two former NAZIs as presidents of both Bosnia and Croatia ". NATO was the same as Hitler "
Eric Siverson
January 20th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
It was kinda a let down for me to learn that my country restablished the borders in Yugoslavia about where Hitler had them before he was defeated . If NATO was right in the 90s Hitler must have been right in the 40s . The only real difference between Hitler and Nato is NATO has better propaganda machinery . Its kinda sad that western propaganda could be that complete that Malic is one of the few good writters telling the truth . Please Mr Alban Please don't hate the Truth . Now we learn that there really was a butcher of the Balkans . Only it was not president Milosevic but the new president of Kosovo
epp
January 21st, 2011 at 6:48 am
Ok fair enough. I must say that as a Pakistani Muslim, I have nothing against Serbs, I think Kosovo should not have created. I think its interesting how most Muslim countries have not recognized Kosovo either. There is a struggle in Pakistan right now, I'm sure you heard about Gov. Taseer who was killed for speaking out against this blasphemy law. Anyways it was nice talking with you.
Alban
January 21st, 2011 at 7:33 am
Kosovar albanians are DOCUMENTED by reputable historians to have been there well before any slavic (read also serb) settlers. This is not "shovinist" or "fairy tale" propaganda but serious and academic work done by non-albanian historians. Please, Mr. B, do not spread malignant and megalo-serbian propaganda! It is really cheap and nobody, even serbs, ever believe this anymore. It does not help anyone, including the serbs. You are still sleeping in the dark and old ages of serbian racism and anti-albanian propaganda, in the same bed with Mr.Malic. Wake up to the new times! You too can live alongside the Albanians if you are really committed to be a respectful neighbor and look forward to a peaceful coexistence. Otherwise, stay where you are and enjoy the old times! Nobody needs you and certainly nobody will ever allow you to mess with Kosovars any more!!! Your genocide party is over!
bozh
January 21st, 2011 at 9:53 am
also sprach hitler or zarathustra is a past tense of zu sprechen [to talk]. also spricht karadzich in den hague is a present tense of same word.
and now i'l try to reconstruct the post that had been deleted!
it had been germans, austrians, czechs, rumanians, slovaks, slovenians, hungarians, croat'ns, and poles [1683, vienna siege] which bled four 4 c. in order to emancipate slovenia, hungary, rumania, and croatia from turks.
at first, turks were unstoppable; they hardly lost a major battle. however, at vienna 1683, suleiman the great's siege of vienna was broken and his army defeated.
that had been the turning point. from now on we began to beat them and push them out austro-hungarian lands.
we also bled for serb emancipation. guess how serbs responded? i have said more in the deleted post i better stop for now! tnx
B..
January 21st, 2011 at 11:18 am
bozh said:
"we also bled for serb emancipation."
Which must be a greatest hit on ANY comment board since the beginnings of the Internet :). Please, man, whatever you're on, don't stop now.
B..
January 21st, 2011 at 11:27 am
Oh yeah, noble "Kosovan" fighters, always there to flagwave the Turks/Austrians/Nazis/NATO in, and show their brave heroism on unarmed Serb civilians (including newborn babies and octogenarian men), guarded by some Big Daddy from Istambul/Vienna/Berlin/Washington.
"This is not "shovinist" or "fairy tale" propaganda but serious and academic work done by non-albanian historians."
Name one. ONE non-Albanian historian of ANY credentials who is ready to side with your primitive blood-and-soil agenda, based on scary fairytales about 'Albanian nation' having been 'present' in its current form since the Neolithic times, 'cause that EXACTLY what your tribal lords have been propagating (patted along by none other than Nazis who readily used your bloodthirsty primitive hysteria in "final solution" against Serbs and Jews in Kosovo-Metohija 1941-1944). You despicable fascist apologist. Your organ-harvesting monsters hardly deserve any more suitable posterboy than you
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 21st, 2011 at 12:17 pm
I'm doing my best to encourage him, he really is great. Please, Antiwar, don't ever ban him. He's our greatest asset here. Which really makes me wonder if he isn't Serb after all. Nah, we ain't that smart :)))
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 21st, 2011 at 12:22 pm
You'll notice that he has equated Hitler with Zarathustra. Now, if he had written "also spracht hitler oder nietzsche", maybe it would have been possible to suppose that he actually had a bit of culture. But "thus speaks bozh" :)))
Vojkan Milosavljevic
January 21st, 2011 at 12:50 pm
And I must say that as a Christian Orthodox from Serbia, I have nothing against Pakistanis. As a matter of fact, I've grown up in a very mixed environment, made of (real) Roman Catholics, Muslims from Maghreb, Jews and virulently atheist/infidel/goyim leftists. The latter were the most prone to relativize moral issues and stab people in the back in order to advance their agenda. Speaking from experience.
I've heard about Gov. Taseer. Unfortunately, there are fanatics everywhere, ready to do anything in order to ensure that their beliefs don't get challenged by dialogue and reason. Even if it means to sacrifice love, gratitude, respect and compassion.
And if I don't like the world of fashion and the military world, it is precisely because the values I just mentioned are completely absent there.
B..
January 22nd, 2011 at 5:52 am
Alban wrote:
"Please, Mr.Malic, for the n….th time, I urge you to stop spreading hate!!!!! Stop dragging and feeding the hatemongers. As a person that writes well, you can contribute a lot to peace. Better late than never! "
Basically, you're saying that Malic's (fact-based!) reporting about your criminal regime's unthinkable atrocities (we're talking about Thaci's ORGAN HARVESTING, man!) amounts to "feeding the hatemongers"? Interesting. Yet, dismally unsurprising. I guess that the remaining Kosovo Serbs should voluntarily give up their lungs and kidneys in order to support your heinous "state-building" further, so the 'Albans' of this world could safely preach the famous Albanian 'tolerance' by their dead bodies, having finished with the monstrous business of organ-harvesting.
You twisted psychopath.
B..
January 22nd, 2011 at 5:56 am
Yes, it's some bizarre Dr. Jackyll-Mr. Hyde-kinda-thing. First he's preaching some New Age mumbo-jumbo, then he's back to the old Croatian chauvinistic hooray-we've-got-rid-of-those-nasty-Serbs basics
bozh
January 22nd, 2011 at 4:59 pm
yes, folks, i am the only one [as far as i know] who had espied the end of history. i am talking about the end of our only civilization we ever had and the end of it in sumer, say, 10-15 k yrs ago.
the civilization, tho still extant as late as 3c. ago in americas, had been destroyed by clergy first. some time later maintained by terror by 'nobles' and to this day.
and ever since then, the darkest dark, the cruelest cruelty, torture, slavery, great fear decended upon us.
and the same clergy is now with us murdering 'aliens', stealing their lands, etc. tnx