The Houla Hoaxsters
Another “Benghazi moment” – this time in Syria
It was supposed to be another “Benghazi moment” – an incident so horrific that it would spark Western military intervention in Syria’s increasingly violent civil war. The massacre at Houla was reported to be just such a moment: Syria’s security forces stand accused of killing 32 children under ten years of age, and more than 60 adults, by bombing the rebel-held village of Houla. Photos of the massacre soon appeared on Twitter: and on YouTube, videos of the slaughter, uploaded by anonymous “activists,” appeared on cue. There was just one problem with this “evidence” of a massacre committed by the Syrian government – much of it was completely made up.
Take the photo the BBC used to illustrate the atrocity: it showed a young boy jumping over piles of corpses neatly laid out in preparation for burial. Very dramatic, and very disturbing – except it wasn’t a photo of anything that happened in Houla. Instead, it was a photo taken by Marco Di Lauro in Iraq, in 2003, and appropriated from his web site. The stolen photo was accompanied by a caption that read:
“Photo from Activist. This image – which cannot be independently verified – is believed to show bodies of children in Houla awaiting funeral.”
“Somebody is using illegally one of my images for anti [S]yrian propaganda on the BBC web site front page,” Di Lauro says, “I almost fell off my chair when I saw it.” When confronted by Di Franco, BBC editors took it down, and, by way of explanation, pointed to the caption as somehow exonerating.
Yet it is the very phrasing of that caption that condemns them out of their own mouths, the key word being believed. Why was it believed by the BBC when they received it from some anonymous “activist”? Because it suited their propagandistic purposes – that is, the purposes of the British government, which runs and funds the BBC, just as the Syrian government runs and funds their own state-controlled media. The photo was believed to be an accurate representation of events taking place in Houla because the editors wanted to believe it.
It isn’t just the photos purporting to show the massacre, it’s the “reporting” that is also thrown into doubt: after all, these accounts are all coming from the very same “activists” who have no compunctions about supplying fake photos to the very same media who report their every word as gospel. It is claimed the Syrian army bombarded Houla, and yet the photos shows people with their throats cut, and shot in the head at very close range: this seeming contradiction required a revision of the “activist”-supplied narrative, which was duly changed to depict government-controlled “militias” coming into the village after the bombardment. Yet even this hasty revisionist version didn’t cover all the bases: for example, one of the victims was a candidate in Syria’s recent elections who had refused to stand down at the demand of opposition “activists.” He, too, was brutally murdered, and the question is – by whom?
The BBC’s falling for – or enabling – “activist” fakery is hardly the only such incident: there was the case of “Syria Danny,” whose on-camera antics were exposed in flagrante delicto as he staged a Syrian army “attack” for the benefit of CNN. And don’t forget the fake “blogger” who purported to be “Amina Abdallah Araf al Omari,” a 35-year-old lesbian living in Damascus, supposedly kidnapped by the Syrian regime and abused. “Amina” turned out to be a middle-aged married American schmuck and “Middle Eastern activist,” one Tom MacMaster, studying for a degree at the University of Edinburgh, in Scotland. The cause of “Amina” was taken up by those ubiquitous Syrian “activists” and trumpeted by their online propaganda apparatus – which has sprung up with weed-like rapidity. That’s what a healthy infusion of money from Western governments will buy you.
Yet even all that money apparently can’t buy competent sock-puppets, with amateurs like MacMaster, “Syria Danny,” and whoever supplied the BBC with Di Lauro’s photo running wild.
Speaking of running wild with enormous amounts of taxpayer dollars, the rebels – already receiving cash, arms, and other emoluments from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the Gulf sheikdoms – have already handed a $12 billion bill for “post-Assad development” to the Western “Friends Group,” led by Germany. That, you can be sure, is just the beginning. With the Eurozone going down into the economic abyss, and the Germans berating their Greek (and now Spanish and Italian) partners as unproductive free riders, one has to wonder about German priorities. The British, too, are on the hook, having just upped the amount they’re sending – at a time when government subsidies to the very needy are on the chopping block. And of course there’s no telling how many American tax dollars have been funneled in “non-lethal” aid to the rebels-who-couldn’t-get-their-lies-straight, but one thing is clear: their American trainers and advisers have their work cut out for them.
The US State Department has posted aerial photos of Syrian troops massed near the village, which purportedly show the government was in control of the area when the massacre occurred. The Syrians, for their part, claim they were in a defensive posture, and “activist”-supplied videos are unreliable for all the reasons detailed above. We will probably never know the truth about what happened at Houla – at least, not before the regime-changers in Western capitals and their Saudi allies kick the propaganda ball over the goal post.
Remember that the aim of war propaganda is to create a general impression, not to establish the truth (or falsehood) of any particular disputed fact. The idea is to hurl as many accusations against the target as rapidly as possible, without regard for their source, so as to generate the kind of murkiness where the truth can be created, rather than merely reported. It’s all about establishing a narrative, and any bothersome facts cropping up and getting in the way are hurriedly kicked aside.
Amid all the loud lamentations over the Syrian regime’s brutality, one fact downplayed by Western media outlets is that there are over 60 different rebel militias operating in Syria, whose activities are indistinguishable from the shabihas, or pro-government militias, which are getting the brunt of the blame. As the Washington Post reports:
“As the shabiha’s ranks and violence have grown and widened, groups have sprung up to counter them. Analysts say shabiha-style militias made up of the Sunni Muslims who represent the majority of the population have also started to emerge in regions such as Homs province, where Houla is located and where Sunni and Alawite communities sit side by side, increasing the potential for sectarian violence.”
In funding and arming rebel groups, whose violence is now being unleashed on civilians caught in the middle, the US and its allies are actively undermining Kofi Annan’s peace plan, which the Syrians have accepted. The rebels are determined to destroy the plan, which leaves them out of power: they won’t be happy until they’ve given the West a pretext to intervene militarily. As Hillary Clinton’s public pronouncements acquire a certain shrillness, that prospect is becoming increasingly likely.
By supporting the “Free Syrian Army,” the US and its allies are openly engaged in another Libya-style intervention, with the same radical Islamists as their armed wing, while a supposedly “secular” and “democracy”-oriented “youth movement” serves as the public face of a deeply reactionary rebel army.
Imagine, for the moment, that some group of foreign powers were involved in financing and arming a “Free American Army,” which launched attacks on US army bases and carried out terrorist acts – car bombings, as have occurred in Damascus, for example – in Washington, D.C. Imagine this rebel army had acquired footholds in key areas, and called for the overthrow of the “regime” in Washington. Do we even have to ask what would be the reaction of the US government?
The Western powers are intent on establishing international rules of governance they have no intention of applying to themselves, and, in this instance, are utilizing the United Nations as their chosen instrument. However, it is by no means certain the UN will go along with the game plan, as Annan’s peace plan – which calls for mutual disarmament and an end to hostilities – would indicate. In which case, the West will do everything it can to undermine the Annan plan and destabilize Syria to the point where they can declare it a “failed state” – and move in for the kill.
The “activist”-authored narrative of a ruthless dictator slaughtering his own people – complete with fake photos, phony videos, and tall tales legitimized as “news” – is aimed at a Western audience. In Syria – where the majority fears the opposition as much, or more, than the dictator Assad – they know better. Unfortunately for them, they have no power to stop the Western-initiated juggernaut headed in their direction.
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
Today’s column brings to mind Wesley Clark’s 2007 revelation, proffered in a speech to the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco, that he was privy to a classified US government plan to overthrow seven governments – Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, and Iran. Gen. Clark told his audience this was prefigured by a 1991 conversation he had with Paul Wolfowitz, in which the then-Undersecretary of Defense gave the project a timeline of five years. While they may be a bit behind schedule, it looks like the War Party is today on the brink of success.
Which brings us to the question of how this is playing out in this country. Where is the opposition? Nowhere to be found, apparently – except right here in the pages of Antiwar.com. That’s our job, and it’s a full-time one: exposing the lies of the interventionists as they lead us into one disastrous war after another. Their trail of deception and destruction is many miles long, and just as wide: and we’ve been following it doggedly for the past fifteen years or so.
Our readers have been supporting our efforts for just as long, but recently – with the economic downturn, in part caused by the very policies we’ve been opposing – the stream of contributions has begun to dry up. People just don’t have the money anymore, it’s as simple as that. Our most recent fundraiser has been one long scary ride, and up until recently it looked as if we might not make it. However, a last-minute flurry of donations, in response to a special urgent appeal, has brought us closer to our goal. Now we just need $10,000 more to put us over the top. That’s not a lot of money by the standards of your normal Washington think tank, which takes in hundreds of thousands from arms manufacturers and other special interests on a regular basis. From our very different perspective, however, it is a great deal of money, without which we’ll find ourselves having to make noticeable cutbacks in our coverage. So please – help us fill in the $10,000 gap. Make your tax-deductible contribution to Antiwar.com today.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013





eric siverson
June 3rd, 2012 at 9:40 pm
After learning what happend in Yugoslavia, Iraq Libyia and Egypt . You should Know NATO would take the sameside the nazi's would have taken . Very perceptive artile Justin
another guest
June 3rd, 2012 at 9:58 pm
This is a solid commentary from Raimondo…the first in many a moon…
However it is too little too late…for months as the Syria rebels gained traction on the Western PR front…thanks to nonstop demonization of Assad and praise for the "democratic" opposition in the mainstream media…
All the while antiwar.com was marching in lockstep with this MSM garbage…daily articles from Jason Ditz repeated word for word the MSM narrative of government forces firing on unarmed pro-democracy demonstrators…
Clearly this narrative was 100 percent fiction as is quite plain now that the rebels and their Western sponsors have come out in the open with their campaign of violence…but now predictably the storyline is… "well, after months of unarmed demonstrations thaty only resulted in point-blank massacres by Syrian troops…is it any wonder that the opposition is now taking the fight to an armed stage of conflict…?…"
another guest
June 3rd, 2012 at 9:59 pm
All the while well informed readers of this website gasped in disbelief as Raimondo sat silent…not once chiming in to debunk the lies coming from his own website…
I remember there was one lukewarm Raimondo column that basically heaped scorn on Assad the dictator while averring that intervention is not a good thing…well whoppee…!…
All the while the comments section of this website have been filling up with disgruntled readers who are sick and tired of seeing this "antiwar" website serving in the role of pro-interventionist propaganda…
And now the usual appeal for money…well many aforementioned readers have already said they are turning off the taps…how can we support a website that for months has been creating the fake news on which a possible Syria intervention will be based…?
Here is my idea…get rid of your so-called news department which is doing more harm than good anyway…get rid of some of the useless commentators like Eland…and get back to your roots as a small and lean operation that is not afraid to hit hard when the truth is being inverted by the MSM…
Then we can talk asbout supporting this website…not a moment before…
maidhc
June 3rd, 2012 at 10:02 pm
It’s far too easy to grandstand about “Western” machinations toward Syria. A few minutes research, however, on websites such as WINEP’s Fikra Forum, Foreign Policy Initiative or Foundation for Defense of Democracies leaves little doubt as to which Middle Eastern country is driving the Western powers to intervene in, i.e. destroy, yet another neighbouring country.
RickR30
June 3rd, 2012 at 10:10 pm
Thanks for keeping track of all these (would it sound silly if I say One World Government's) shenanigans. Is anyone surprised though? It's the same script over and over. Is anyone falling for this crap? The cheap propaganda is supposed to be aimed at the West, for what though? To get the American, German, British, French people all riled up against Assad? Because then the respective governments would listen to the clamoring of the people and against it's own will invade Syria? Who over the age of 17 believes that's how the world works? Should we feel honored that whoever is pulling the strings still values the hoi polloi's opinion? After all we all know where this is headed and what the outcome will be. Why the delay playing silly games that do nothing but embarrass the world's emperors? Everyone knows they couldn't care less what the people need or want and that they relish doing exactly the opposite.
june8642
June 3rd, 2012 at 10:31 pm
The staff at antiwar.com are part of the problem with raising funds. There is harrassment in writing comments such as an editor request that 10 written lines contain too many words; therefore, comments must be broken into two separate comments. Once the comments have been divided as requested, the message is sent that comments must be broken into three segments. This is "game playing" with Antiwar respondents. Also, are articles by Antiwar staff presenting AIPAC's propaganda that "Israel is not pressuring the U.S. concerning Iran" really news? Actually, the offending comments which the editor would not allow were concerns voiced by Senator Fulbright in Senate hearings held before he lost his seat to Dale Bumpers.
Antiwar.com yet again obscures Israel’s role in Syria « The Passionate Attachment
June 3rd, 2012 at 10:36 pm
[...] far too easy to grandstand about “Western” machinations toward Syria, as Antiwar.com’s Justin Raimondo does in his “The Houla Hoaxsters” piece. A little research, however, on websites such [...]
El Tonno
June 3rd, 2012 at 11:03 pm
WTF are the Nazis doing in this story? None the entities-to-be-destabilized are "ancestral german/aryan homeland" or has been split off the Wilhelmian Reich after WWI.
El Tonno
June 3rd, 2012 at 11:06 pm
Well, once you have the tap to TOTAL TRUTH come back.
Tom Mauel
June 3rd, 2012 at 11:40 pm
Corporate media needed the phony Houla lead story to cover up the mounting losses in Afghanistan over Memorial Day weekend and civilian deaths from U.S. drone strikes.
Justin Raimondo
June 4th, 2012 at 12:00 am
You are full of it. Your objection to Jason's articles is that they refuse to whitewash the horridic role Assad and his Ba'athists are playing — one just as murderous as the paid assassins of the "Free Syrian Army." We don't support Assad, and simply oppose US intervention — because supporting dictators is not what we're about. We leave that to you.
Furthermore, I have written countless articles on the Syrian situation, and if you can find anything in them to criticize, please do so — with quotes. You might also want to cite quotations from Jason's articles, something you neglected to do in the critique above.
Justin Raimondo
June 4th, 2012 at 12:08 am
That the comments from "another guest" are all you is ridiculously apparent: you're a joke made even funnier by the fact that you don't seem to realize it. Anti-semites such as yourself are boring: your monomania, if it ever gained a foothold on this web site, would turn it into a one-dimensional caricature. Why don't you take your concerns to Stormfront, where your obsession with Jewish conspiracies will receive a better reception? Get off this web site, and stay off.
AngelaKeaton
June 4th, 2012 at 12:29 am
June,
I'm sorry. You have crossed a line here. I want no further communication from you. The animus toward Jews in the antiwar movement is evident. I have defended you in the past but no longer.
Peace,
Angela
John_Muhammad
June 4th, 2012 at 1:09 am
I have said from the day the Houla story broke that everyone should step back and first, wait for the investigation (and investigative reporting) to run its course, and then to think rationally and logically about the situation.
While I have "no dog in this fight" either way, my own off-the-cuff reaction was to think false-flag to make Assad look bad. He doesn't need much help looking bad, but the 'rebels' (who would be 'terrorists' if they were opposed to the US, by the way) are losing and losing badly and given their undoubted desperation for help a few murdered civilians strategically offered to the news cameras is the perfect vehicle for gaining sympathy, especially in the US. On other news sites the immediate reaction was decidedly anti-Syrian and the usual calls for nukes and glass parking lots and all that went out in minutes- EXACTLY the sort of calculated reaction such a massacre was sure to invoke.
However, as the days pass the story is unraveling and the 'rebels' are scrambling to pin it someone- anyone- who is stupid enough to be duped into taking the fall for it. I'm not fully convinced of who is guilty at this point, but at the same time I'm not prepared to exonerate either side until we have more facts.
Justin Raimondo
June 4th, 2012 at 1:21 am
Another kook slides out from under a rock.
ummabdulla
June 4th, 2012 at 2:47 am
As I've commented on Jason Ditz's articles about this (with links), the witnesses have said all along – since the beginning – that there was shelling from the Army and then men came into their houses and killed them at close range. You can have a different opinion about what happened, but claiming that the reports only later said this is simply not true, and that's easily confirmed by going back and looking at reports in various media outlets.
Antiwar.com is really losing credibility among people who actually care to know what's going on; it's become a mouthpiece for Putin propaganda. Does anyone at antiwar.com actually know any Syrians? If not, have they bothered to find any to ask? The reporting is completely without context if there's no acknowledgement of what life in Syria is like – and has been like for decades. This kind of brutality is par for the course for the Assad governments (for one of the biggest atrocities, look into the Hama massacre of 1982, or Tadmor Prison), and it's why anyone visiting Syria is struck by the fear seen in ordinary people if you even mention their President.
Justin, are you actually saying that the incident didn't happen? That the whole thing was a hoax, and those women and children weren't really killed there?
james
June 4th, 2012 at 3:10 am
Spot on John and exactly as Justin put it.
I will tell you however why the Americans, especially the bomb, nuke and glass parking type, are angry, because these kind or brutal orgies against civilians is a trade mark for the land of the free and the home of the brave. Whoever did this was trespassing on a favorite modern American pastime. Only American heros can do this.
Robert H Stiver
June 4th, 2012 at 3:55 am
Justin Raimondo, you are completely out of line here. NOTHING goes on in the Middle East region without the imprint of the Zionist enterprise. I give great credence to Maidhc's comment. (I don't know how, or even if, I will be posted: I am Robert H Stiver, Oahu, Hawaii.)
another guest
June 4th, 2012 at 4:26 am
What horrific role…?…it's not about supporting Assad…I could care less about Assad…
But it is clear to me that the Assad government does have a substantial base of support, particularly among non-Sunni minorities, the middle class etc…
As far as those articles by Jason Ditz…well they are clearly the joke…except its not funny when lives are at stake…
Was there ever a case where Syrian troops opened fire on unarmed, peaceful demonstrators…?…I certainly doubt it…that's not how to break up a demonstration…just ask US cops who dismantled the occupy protests quite efficiently with minimum bloodshed…
But is the truth in fact that there was always an armed component of the Syrian "demonstrations…?"…
Yes…it is a well known tactic to instigate violence in a demonstration in order to provoke a response…right from the get go the opposition has been using violence…but this was never mentioned on this website…
another guest
June 4th, 2012 at 4:40 am
Just to add here that I do care about the Syrian people…I do not want to see another Libya, Iraq, Serbia, Vietnam…and on and on…
Clearly the US and its sock puppets have Syria in its sights…they do not care one whit if they turn the entire country into a smoking crater…with people losing their homes, loved ones, their entire world truned to hell…
We heard the same spiel about Gadafi the evil tyrant…well go and ask the average Libyan today how he feels about being "saved" from the horrors of Gadafi…including free health care, free education to the doctoral level and many other good things that are now gone forever…
Articles for Monday Morning » Scott Lazarowitz's Blog
June 4th, 2012 at 4:40 am
[...] Justin Raimondo: The Houla Hoaxsters [...]
tomofsnj
June 4th, 2012 at 4:56 am
plan to overthrow seven governments – Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, and Iran. '
This is amazing that so many have not figured out that we as Israel/USA is really starting all the conflict in the middle east. We have thousands dead in Iraq who died for a lie. It makes one wonder about WWII and what Churchill and FDR did to get us into the war. I know WWI was the great lie and I wonder just what to believe anymore. I know what ever conflict happens now we should make sure the Israel forces are the first in. If they push for war let them not just profit but suffer the same as our parents who have lost our children to the war mongers. Today I read a story that Israel new submarines will carry nukes. Who did not know that their would be no other reason to have the subs other than threaten european and other capitals. To me it proves that israel is not just a homeland of a religion but the home of war mongers. Our founding fathers were so smart and they warned us not to get involved in foreign affairs. They were so correct.
richard vajs
June 4th, 2012 at 5:15 am
It is hard to figure out what is going on in Syria. On the surface, seeing that harridan, Hillary, screeching for Assad's destruction, I know exactly who is behind the revolt. What doesn't make sense is this – what profit will it pay to the backers of Assad's destruction. What will they gain from destroying Syria other than the same profit as was generated by destroying Libya? Which is to say – nothing but destruction for destruction's sake. Does it make sense to turn a whole region of 300 million people into a leaderless mob? How will that make Israel a better place to live? Will destruction of Syria bring rain and prosperity to the settlements? Is this all thought out or is it just sociopathic fury?
maidhc
June 4th, 2012 at 6:10 am
That my mere mention of the easily verifiable role of pro-Israel think tanks in leading the push for intervention – something your full-time “anti-interventionist” staff continues to ignore – should elicit such a hysterical overreaction is not only bizarre, but perhaps more revealing than you intended.
By the way, it should also not be too difficult for your staff to verify that I am not “another guest.” Perhaps your clichéd libel of me can be best understood as a projection of your own paranoia.
Oswaldwasalefty
June 4th, 2012 at 6:21 am
It's really not that hard to figure out what is going on in Syria. The U.S. led West is offering up Damascus to whatever anti-Assad forces they can put together to take over the country after he is overthrown. It's analogous to the situation in Libya last year. If the West, and it's Gulf States sock puppets, are going to offer up Damascus on a platter to whoever will take it, then there is no reason for any anti-Assad resistance to negotiable a peaceful settlement to the conflict. This is the top reason for the decline in the human rights situation in Syria, not the venality of the Assad regime.
Oswaldwasalefty
June 4th, 2012 at 6:32 am
The top reason is always the demonstration effect. Look at Libya. Gaddafi had done his best to make peace with the West and normalize relations with the U.S. And they still came after him for his past transgressions, which was giving a lot lip service and support to anti-imperialist causes. A little reminder that the West never forgets and completely forgives disobedience from states it believes should exist in vassalage to the West. Give the West an inch and they'll take a mile and an entire state down. They didn't even have to land an army in Libya and they still got what they wanted. This is a way to remind the peoples of this region that they still haven't escaped from their colonial status. On paper they are all citizens of "independent" nations, but in the real world that is simply not true. We, of a "better" civilization than yours, can and will impose leaders to our liking who will obey us. That's what this about first and foremost. With Libya oil was a major secondary concern, and not at all with Syria.
JMM
June 4th, 2012 at 7:03 am
Where does june mention Jews? I don't see it. Antiwar.com shouldn't be conflating criticism of Israel with criticism of Jews.
another guest
June 4th, 2012 at 8:05 am
Well said Oswald…
4 jun « Syrien
June 4th, 2012 at 9:28 am
[...] Raimondo -The Houla Hoaxsters It was supposed to be another “Benghazi moment” – an incident so horrific that it would spark [...]
scottindallas
June 4th, 2012 at 9:51 am
I would beg to move back from your certainty about what's going on. (I agree that the rebels are a CIA/Mossad/Saudi/Turk bag operation) But, while we can know that these reports all carry a single deliberate bias; we can know that the reports are not balanced; we know what's going on. I think we're all with the Syrian people, but we should be modest in what we assert.
AngelaKeaton
June 4th, 2012 at 9:52 am
Well said Capt.Obvious, Now if it only addressed the comment thread.
scottindallas
June 4th, 2012 at 9:59 am
funny point. I got to thinking of this in terms of economics. The conflagration awaits, should we forestall it, or let it fall and pick up the pieces. This is the difference between libs and cons on domestic economics, you, perhaps inadvertently, introduced the same conundrum vis a vis Syria
scottindallas
June 4th, 2012 at 10:03 am
Alex Cockburn was there, and he has questions about the narrative you describe. It seems that the artillery shelling occurred. It's unclear who perpetrated the close quarters attacks. Some of the victims of these were supporters of Assad. Some supporters of Assad were killed, yet, someone by that very family spoke to the media. We have very little clarity, and likely, there are no saints. All I know is that the USG wouldn't be so restrained if this were happening here.
scottindallas
June 4th, 2012 at 10:05 am
Alex sounds like Coburn–though the name is spelled like the male chicken. Can't believe the program did that. Cockadoodle doo
scottindallas
June 4th, 2012 at 10:13 am
they're deposing the devil they know, for a roll of the dice. That's all it is. I believe that the admins are divided over this, but indifference can't halt a concentrated force of a small faction. So, events keep unfolding.
We used to send Arabs to Assad to torture for us. He played ball and kept Israel's border quiet. An impetuous few wanted change. I can't imagine the odds are good that what results will be better for Israel. Perhaps these foolish Israelis think Syria is more feckless if rent with turmoil, that's naive at best.
eric siverson
June 4th, 2012 at 10:15 am
But Gaddaffi was a unelected dictator . I believe he spent a good deal of Libyia's wealth on his own people , and improving his country . and even much of Africa . This might be better than a elected leader that squanders our wealth and gets his country into debts with interest payments to inslave his people and their childran forever and ever
joe slow
June 4th, 2012 at 10:46 am
justin is trying to reach a monetary goal. it is necessary for him to attack maidhc who is on the money.
joe slow
June 4th, 2012 at 10:48 am
gadafi was supported by a vast majority of libyans.
bashar al assad is also supported by 90% of syrians not on the us/israel payroll. they know what is in store for syria should the terrorists win.
stevieb
June 4th, 2012 at 10:59 am
Absolutely – and in the future, in the west – much like in Putin's Russia or Chavez in Venezuela – we might do the same. "Democracy' according to our 'leaders' is certainly not that at all. Democracy is having the support of the majority of the people in your country. There is none of that in the West anymore. But some commentators on 'the left' think hanging on to some flim-flam ideal of democracy is worth holding on to. i wonder why?
eric siverson
June 4th, 2012 at 11:21 am
I don't think thats what Justin said . " it did not happend " As for Anti war being a site for Putin propaganda ? I have not noticed this . I don't even think there is Putin propaganda . I think there is a lot of NATO and U.S. propaganda , especialy in the middle east , like Libyia Egypt Syria and even Israel or Iran . Putin is kinda one of my heroes , Evere since Aleksander Solhenitsyn installed Putin to straighten out Russia . Putin put Russia on the right tract quick in his first term . Aleksander Solhenitsyn was my first hero , and if he trusted Putin to lead the country he loved back to her historic Christian roots , I guess I will too . So if Putin says the rebels may have killed these inocent civilans to bring NATO into Syria it just might be true . You understand it is NATO that I don't trust . I could be wrong but NATO is doing evreything the NAZIs did . Just look at all the wars we have been in the last twentyf five yrs .
ummabdulla
June 4th, 2012 at 11:24 am
Alex or Patrick? I found this from Patrick Cockburn, who was in Damascus. (Did he actually go to Houla, though?)
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news…
But note that this report was from May 28, and even it makes it clear that men came into people's houses and killed civilians at close range. We can argue about who it was, but what I don't get is the consistent antiwar.com line – repeated in Justin's piece above and in several Jason Ditz reports – that no one mentioned any killing at close range until much later. This has been cited over and over again as a lie by the opposition; it's said that at first, they said everyone was killed by Syrian army artillery, and only days later, when it was clear that civilians were killed at close range, that they came up with any story about men coming in and killing people in their homes.
This is my point… it's simply a fact that the reports of men coming in and killing civilians at close range have been around from everyone involved since the beginning, and it doesn't take any great research skills to go back and look at media reports since this happened in Houla. Why is antiwar.com still saying that this wasn't what was being reported?
ummabdulla
June 4th, 2012 at 11:27 am
I agree… which is why I'm not convinced that Israel wants to get rid of Assad. He's never made any problems for them, but a government of the people would be much more hostile to Israel. (As in Egypt.)
However, all the Syrians I know would like to be rid of Assad.
ummabdulla
June 4th, 2012 at 11:28 am
Actually, the Saudi government has detained clerics for simply raising money for charity for Syrians. The Saudis don't want another Arab country run by the Muslim Brotherhood.
ummabdulla
June 4th, 2012 at 11:31 am
I know a lot of Syrians, most of whom – but not all – are Sunnis, and not one of them supports Bashar. And I can assure you that they're not on the US/Israel payroll. They know that the kinds of atrocities they're seeing are not that shocking for anyone who's familiar with the history of his and his father's regimes.
richard vajs
June 4th, 2012 at 11:36 am
Eric Siverson,
I appreciate your point – our country has become so corrupt that even Russia is more honest in comparison. I now get more of my television news from RT (Russia Today) in their English language news broadcasts. It passes the "smell test" a lot better than the American broadcast network news do. By comparison, CNN is for childish minds and FOX News is for Neanderthals.
eric siverson
June 4th, 2012 at 11:37 am
Yes i had a teacher friend that just left Syria , I asked him . he did not like Assad , his town was attack and his house was shotup . He said the rebels had shotup his house . yet he was against Assad . But I don't trust my friends judgement on much of anything , as he is very young and inexperienced . All though I gathered Assad is not good , yet the rebels had destroyed the house he was living in . He might of thought it more important to end the violence if he actually owned the house .
another guest
June 4th, 2012 at 11:40 am
That is very well said, Eric…
I think a lot of us would be very happy if Putin was in charge here in the West too…at least we could have a leader that when he says something you know he means it…and not talking double…
Nato and Nazis…?…abosolutely two sides of the same coin…look why on earth does Nato take it upon itself to destroy a country like Libya…?…what the hell is Nato doing in Afghanistan…?
Nato is not nominally in Iraq but here is a country completely destroyed by the Western powers…why for god's sake…?
And all of this is just in the last decade…nonstop wars with absoultely unimaginable human toll and suffering…
In the decade before that that the country of Yugoslavia was destroyed by Nato…another decade of war and human suffering…
Really I have had enough…I would like to see the end of Nato and the US pull its troops home from its 700 bases or whatever the number is…
There is no question that ALL of the wars of the last 20 years have been Western projects…I even include the African wars in this because this is a legacy of colonialism and the ongoing corporate looting of that continent…
eric siverson
June 4th, 2012 at 11:47 am
I too have noticed John Muhammad is usualy right in most evreything he says , must be a smart boy
jeff_davis
June 4th, 2012 at 12:02 pm
Let's just test the filter ;
sh*t = shit, f*ck = fuck, d*mn = damn, c*ck = cock, J*w = Jew, b*tch = bitch, motherf*cker = motherfucker, c*cksucker = cocksucker, c*nt (with a "u")= cunt, t*ts = tits, p*ss = piss
Anyone want to add to the list?
Real Liberty Media News - 2012-06-04 | Real Liberty Media
June 4th, 2012 at 12:05 pm
[...] End the Lie – Independent NewsFlorida defies DOJ order to stop purging voter rolls | The Raw StoryThe Houla Hoaxsters by Justin Raimondo — Antiwar.comMarket rumor: Pimco and JP Morgan halt vacations to prepare for economic crash – National [...]
jeff_davis
June 4th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
It's Syria's/Assad's connection to Iran and Hezbollah that makes it an Israeli target. Iran is strong. It's strength makes Syria and Hezbollah stronger, and their strength makes Iran stronger. All of this threatens Israel. The destruction of the Syrian link in this alliance destroys the alliance, and as such momentarily improves Israeli security.
The problem is that when Assad is gone — and with him the Iran/Hezbollah linkage — who or what will take his place? If NATO/the West has its way, it will be another Sunni puppet like the Saudi monarchy, the GCC, Hussein of Jordan, or Mubarak. But will the West be able to pull that off? They couldn't do it in Iraq (where they installed an Iranian ally). And no Syrian of any stripe will be a friend to Israel. Yet for the sake of breaking up the Iranian connection, the West and Israel are prepared to take their chances.
This project of taking down countries that refuse US/Israeli hegemony — starting with "weak" countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya — will inevitably embolden these aggressors to the point where they overreach. Assad has seen what happened to Gaddafi. Will he sit back — with his very substantial military capability and his chemical and biological WMD deterrent (though the deterrent nature of that arsenal seems in the current circumstances, somehow dangerously overlooked by the US/Israel) and let US/Israel do the same to him?
Assad in extremis, with nothing to lose, may decide — just as Saddam decided: remember the Scuds? — to attack Israel.
There are many many ways this business can go wrong.
Can't wait to see what happens next!
another guest
June 4th, 2012 at 12:20 pm
The point here is not about Bahar Al Assad…the point here is about this revolution in a can business that our countries are in…
I am sick of exporting violence…I would like our government to do something about it but there is no chance…I would like just our media to be more honest but there is no chance even of that…
Yes I am sure there are many Syrians that would like Assad to go…there are probably many more Americans who would like to see Obama go…so what…?
Does that mean it is okay now for a foreign power…say China…to come in and start arming terrorists in the US and creating an armed insurrection against the machinery of state authority…
another guest
June 4th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
Yes Syria is probably a police state…and those who run afoul of the authorities are in for a rough ride…but that is a tiny number of people…I would say your chances of getting roughed up by the cops or falsely imprisoned or even tasered to death are a lot higher right here in the home of the free…
Hundreds of people are killed by police in the US each year…hundreds more in prisons…the US has the largest prison population in the world by far…all of these things seen from a more removed perspective can look like a terrible plice state…
Does that mean it is okay for China to now say…the US has to have regime change…?
ummabdulla
June 4th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
You need to talk to some actual Libyans who lived under Qaddafi. They had hefty revenues from oil and a very small population, so they should have had a standard of life like citizens of the Arab Gulf countries, but they had nothing of the sort. You're right, though – Qaddafi squandered huge amounts of money paying off corrupt African rulers, because he hoped to become the head of an African union.
ummabdulla
June 4th, 2012 at 12:34 pm
I agree about CNN and Fox (although CNN's international network is much better than its domestic network). But if you're getting your news from RT, then you're getting Putin propaganda. If you understand and accept that, then that's up to you – but don't try to present it as objective.
eric siverson
June 4th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
I don't blame Israel for the wars in the middle east . I blame Islam . Israel wasn't even a country untill 1948 , Israeal was.n't even mentioned as a possible country before the 1st world war , Yet there is a sckull tower in the Balkans built before 1800 . and a constant war lasting centures between Christianity and Islam . Muslim law guaratees islamic victory whereever it is practiced , it is called Shariah law . Death to all who giveup Islam ,Muslims are commanded to go on Jihad , Jihad is war , not neccesarily with bullets , it maybe with only words or even lies . Anything you precieve to strengthen Islam .
RickR30
June 4th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
I don't think anyone is doing anything to forestall the economic conflagration. At best delaying it. But both the so-called left and right want the party to go on long as possible, both, despite their cheap rhetoric, want the government to maintain them. While in foreign policy both are itching at the chance to wreak havoc everywhere in the middle east.
eric siverson
June 4th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
Bosnia had their Market massacre , Kosovo had Racket massacre So why can't the mad bombers go into Syria with the Houle hoaxsters massacre . becuase John Mohammad and Justn want to wait a little while . Now nobody else believes the mad bombers anymore . Assad is not cracking down brutlely enough . He murdered 89 people yesterday 56 of them were his own soldiers . I knew along time ago we were not getting the whole truth when Syria had killed 9ooo inocent protesters , over 3000 of them were inocent police officers fighting on Assads side Evrey goverenment would have to bring in the army when the police are killed like this . What does the world want ? just turn over the whole country becuase a few criminals want to run it . Like NATO turned over Kosovo to a small groupe of very mean terrorists .
tomofsnj
June 4th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
The Christians attacked the Muslims during the middle ages. The Muslim attacked back and they got at far as the Middle of Spain.
I stick by the comment that Israel/USA is the reason for the recent wars. England, france, and Russia joined together to eliminate the ottoman empire and spilt the land. They understood the value of oil and they knew of the vast oil reserves of the region. These same people promised the arabs a homeland if they fount the Ottoman Empire but in the great betrayal they pulled the plug on the homeland and allowed the british to take over a large area in the british mandate and the french Lebanon. Russia was not a factore because of the revolution.
Hey maybe you do not get it be the area should have been 100 percent arab because thousands died defeating the Ottoman empire. Your comments on Shariah law is the usual methods to avoid the reality of the screwing that the arabs took. I do not see the arabs putting nuke on submarines and then crying that Iran is trying to make a bomb.
BTW Israel or Lord Rothchild plantation really stated about 1870 when Lord Rothchild loaned england 4 million pounds to purchase the suez canal. With the usual british help Egypt was occupied by the british army all over bad bonds printed by the british government and distributed by Lord Rothchilds agents. Troops in Egypt gave England a foot hold in the middle east and actually allowed the british to arm the arabs to defeat the ottoman empire. The british were a disaster as a military force wiht 157,000 killed in Galopoli and a full british army being captures and in house arrest in Baghad at the end of the war.
The trouble in the middle east is pretty much caused by the refusal of the zionist to accept a homeland in africa. The entire history of wwii would be totally different had the accept the offer for a large plot of land. But Lord Rothchild did not own large tracks of land in africa.
syrian rebels massacred government supporters in houla – not syrian government « End Times News
June 4th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
[...] anti-war.com Share this:ShareLike this:LikeBe the first to like this [...]
Houla truth and nothing but the whole truth | RealLiberalChristianChurch.org
June 4th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
[...] via The Houla Hoaxsters by Justin Raimondo — Antiwar.com. [...]
Der Hula-Hoax : Mathias Broeckers
June 4th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
[...] Houla Hoax – das BBC-Foto von Leichen aus dem Irak 2003, die syrischen Regierungstruppen als [...]
tom
June 4th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
What we need is a Congressional Mercenary Unit. Take everyone in Congress put them in a generals uniform and drop'em off in Syria to battle Assad.
Heck, I'll even watch fox news for that.
Soros Connection – Part 2 « Keys To Liberty
June 4th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
[...] how many others recieve e-mails in the same fashion? This article by avaaz.org was a fraud and a hoax blaming Syria for a massacre. Western governments have had operatives inside Syria for a long time, [...]
Watson
June 4th, 2012 at 6:26 pm
I'll bring the popcorn, tom!
Lorraine
June 4th, 2012 at 6:59 pm
Wow, that was a spirited (if testy) exchange. Can't we all just get along? A house divided against itself cannot stand. Peace…
Jaime
June 4th, 2012 at 8:57 pm
I agree with you 100%.
ummabdulla
June 4th, 2012 at 9:06 pm
I can respect an argument that admits the reality of Assad and life for normal people in Syria, and then says, "But I'm antiwar and I don't want the U.S. to intervene."
What I don't respect are he arguments of people who have absolutely no clue… who know nothing about Syria… who defend Assad and claim that anyone against him is either a pawn of US/Israel or is al-Qaeda… who read about an al-Houla massacre and don't show a shred of sympathy for women and children killed while hiding in their homes… who completely discount the millions of ordinary citizens who have lived in fear for decades because of the government atrocities.
ummabdulla
June 4th, 2012 at 9:07 pm
Assad's soldiers are being killed by the rebels and also sometimes by their own commanders when they refuse to kill civilians.
another guest
June 4th, 2012 at 10:10 pm
Pretty much everything ummabdulla says is pure horse manure…
Before the Nato destruction of the country Libya was ranked 54'th on the UN human development index, highest in Africa and 4'th highest in the Arab world and AHEAD of Saudi Arabia…(that bastion of human rights…)
In just the last year Libya has DROPPED 10 places on the list and is now 64'th…so much for Nato help and democracy in action…
Go to wikipedia human development index list of countries (this website would not let me post the link here…)
Only three tiny gulf states were ever ranked above Libya,,,the UAE, Qatar and Bahrain which have much greater oil wealth per capita…
That anyone can come on here and argue in favor of the disgusting policies of the corrupt Gulf States is beyond despicable…they are what is keeping the Arab world down and in chains to Western Colonialism…
Ben_C
June 5th, 2012 at 1:49 am
I can "defend" Assad here..and I fully admit I don't know a whole lot about 'Syria' in general–but I don't need to know about 'Syria'.
I do know people and how regimes actually work (many don't seem to)–which is the important thing… Knowing the nuances of"Syria" itself isn't all that important in this particular situation (especially considering how long the "conflict" has lasted), and we can bet if you'd like…
I'm almost certain the "al-Houla massacre" was not directed by Assad. In fact, I''m almost certain he had absolutely no direct knowledge of it until it was over…
It's certainly possible Assad 'may' have been involved, just as you may have been involved; however, as I said, I'm more than willing to bet he wasn't based on the information available…
Even if I conclusively knew Assad was a certifiable sociopath and sadist, which he may or may not be, I'd still be willing to bet Assad had no direct knowledge or role in this particular incident before it happened based on the information available…
Anyway… Syria is a modern state. The Assad military is a professional military, and is even majority "Sunni"… So…this doesn't even seem to be a "sectarian" conflict at present…does it? I'll let the self-proclaimed "experts"on Syria explain what this "rebellion" exactly is and who exactly the "rebels" are…. I don't think it matters all that much at this time, but I'm all ears…
Stefan Reich
June 5th, 2012 at 3:19 am
What, and then you will block the person from commenting? Oh please. Stop this censoring BS.
Stefan Reich
June 5th, 2012 at 3:23 am
Justin, YOU are exposing Israel's war-making efforts all the time. And now someone else points it out and that is somehow… wrong?
I love you as a writer, Justin, but sometimes you're really… weird.
Winston_Smith3
June 5th, 2012 at 4:10 am
From articles in the British press it appears the attack on Syria is about to be launched.
The grounds are the Houls massacre, just like the attack on Libya was because the Libyans wereaboutto massacre the inhabitants of Bengazi.
But the people killed appear to include the extended family of a candidate in the recent general elections to the parliament. who refused to withdraw.
Islamicist Jihadists were inimidating candidates and kidnapping their relatives to get them to withdraw.
Throatcutting is a hallmark of such Jihadist attacks.
So this has the imprematur of a False Flag Attack played up and played up as a pretext for war, and this is what appears to be happening.
The Houla Hoaxsters
June 5th, 2012 at 4:50 am
[...] [...]
another guest
June 5th, 2012 at 6:15 am
Well I can't wait to see this…Syria has the Russian S300 anti-aircraft missile system…regarded as just about the best in the world…plus Russian technical advisers to run it…along with sophisticated Russian radar etc…
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/…
It would be like shooting clay pigeons…and I say that as an aerospace engineer who works in the industry…
Winston_Smith3
June 5th, 2012 at 6:23 am
yeah, I know.
But things appear to have got out of control they appear to have believed their own propaganda experts.
A particular problem is the British foreign secretary William hague who is not known for his intelligence.
They want another Humanitarian Intervention and foreign adventure.
It is the British Empire II
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/254674/SAS-s…
Free Syrian
June 5th, 2012 at 6:39 am
I'm Syrian
it may be some fake pictures
but the reality is The Troops of Assad killed young children
and after few days the Assad said in his speech
you have to believe the story i'm telling or it another massacres are gonna happen
i.e. he is threatening his people to stop revolution or he will proceed killing our kids
eric siverson
June 5th, 2012 at 6:52 am
Isn't there muslims in africa too . I reached my conclusion as a balkan Christian . So why the sckull tower ? in the Balkans way before 1870 . I recall some muslims and Christians that United in Kosovo to protect themselves and each other . It worked just fine as long as they were dealing with local forces of either side . After the NATO bombing , the muslim friends gave their best guns to the Serbs and told them you have to run , we just don't dare protect you anymore ,we will be killed .for sure now . Most of the muslims killed in Kosovo were killed by the KLA and the NATO bombing . The KLA was a terrorist organization afilated with AlQaida and NATO . The destrucktion of Yugoslavia was a long held German dream . Two unrepentant NAZIs were installed as president of both Croatia and Bosnia . This is why I call NATO NAZI .Also becuase of the constant lies and disinformation coming from NATO prapaganda
another guest
June 5th, 2012 at 7:21 am
I don't believe your clumsy lying for one second…
How do you expect anyone on earth to belive that president Assad would actually in a public speech take responsibility for this massacre…and then threaten another massacre…
This would be very easy to prove since such a speech would have been recorded by the media, no…?
You are full of manure…
Btw…"Free Syrian…"…is that like Free Syrian Army…?…
JMMorgan
June 5th, 2012 at 8:54 am
Eric,
I can understand your having an anti-Muslim bias from growing up as a Christian in the Balkans. But the problem you are reacting to is the legacy of Turkish imperialism not Islam per se. In most of the Middle East for many decades and in most of the world currently, the problem is US and British/French imperialism, not all Christianity.
Situation in Syria - Updates & Discussions - Page 2090 - The Orange Room - forum.tayyar.org
June 5th, 2012 at 10:01 am
[...] [...]
joe slow
June 5th, 2012 at 10:08 am
and i know a lot a syrians.
not one supports the slaughter of syria which is what is happening. note iraq, libya.
they support, not love, their govt because not to do so is suicide and slavery.
Drizza
June 5th, 2012 at 11:01 am
Wow Justin Raimondo straight out of the ADL, JDL, (insert organization here that labels anyone anti semetic for critizing Israel). I dont understand this hysteria because he didnt even mention Jew and your getting all hysterical here. Would you jump to the same defence had he been hinting towards a muslim or any other religious country? Man cant critizie zionism anywhere. Thats why people need to examine these half truthers real hard and see if they doing justice towards our truth movement.
R.C.
June 5th, 2012 at 11:12 am
Whenever I hear about "massacres" like this, the first thing I look for his motive. While I'm certainly no supporter of Assad's dictatorship, there's is absoultely ZERO benefit in him perpertrating a massacre like this while the world is watching while he should be adhereing to Kofi's peace plan. It simply makes no sense whatsoever
It's also interesting, much like Libya, we get the pro-intervention trolls coming out claiming they're "from Syria" and everybody hates Assad. Really? What exactly do the Syrian massases think they are going to get with the propped up flip-flop Al-Qaeda jihadist army being backed by NATO and the gulf puppet? The Alawite/Christian community in Syria by MOST accounts I've heard are TERRIFIED of these "rebels" and they are terrified at the prospect of Assad being removed, not because they are necessarily "pro-Assad" but because the rebels will offer them nothing.
AngelaKeaton
June 5th, 2012 at 11:33 am
Sorry, the odor of bullsh-t and self pity knocked me over. What were you saying?
Yonatan
June 5th, 2012 at 12:16 pm
This 'Justin Raimondo' is a fake – the URL just above the lede for the real JR takes you to his personal page. The fake URL takes you to the antiwar main page.
Drizza
June 5th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
ment to post under maidhc comment where Ramindo commented where he visciously attacked him. Wrong area sorry ><.
ummabdulla
June 5th, 2012 at 12:28 pm
Free Syrian, these people know nothing but what they hear on Russian TV. They think Assad's regime is wonderful, they would never kill their own people… that there are only a few people who don't like the regime, and they all must be either terrorists or on the Israeli/CIA payroll.
Not telling you to stop trying to tell the truth – please continue! But just letting you know that the truth will get you a lot of thumbs down here.
ummabdulla
June 5th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
That just goes to show you what a joke those rankings are. Have you been to any of these countries? If you knew anything about them, you would realize how absurd the rankings are. You never saw people from the Gulf, for example, trying to go live and work in Libya, but you certainly saw the opposite. Why would that be?
ummabdulla
June 5th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
Ben_C: "I can 'defend' Assad here..and I fully admit I don't know a whole lot about 'Syria' in general–but I don't need to know about 'Syria'."
Right…. well, at least you admit it…
If your point is that Assad himself didn't go and slaughter those people personally, well of course that's true. And I don't think that he as an individual has the power that Saddam or Qaddafi or Hafez al-Assad had, which is why I normally talk of the 'regime', because he is surrounded by a whole group of people who have everything to lose if his regime goes down.
(Remember, his brother was the one who was groomed to take over; Bashar was an eye doctor in London, and it was never his father's plan for him to take over.)
Still, he certainly bears responsibility for what is done in his name.
As for the sectarian factor, very few people outside the region and outside the religion really understand this, but it's there and it's strong.
ummabdulla
June 5th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Right… from the expert…
ummabdulla
June 5th, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Patrick Cockburn has an interview on antiwar radio which you should listen to (although most of you won't like it).
Winston_Smith3
June 5th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Unfortunately Patrick Cockburn said exactly the opposite and voiced the fears expressed here;-
http://antiwar.com/radio/2012/06/04/patrick-cockb…
http://antiwar.com/radio/2012/06/04/patrick-cockb…
Winston_Smith3
June 5th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Unfortunately Patrick Cockburn said exactly the opposite and voiced the fears expressed here;-
http://antiwar.com/radio/2012/06/04/patrick-cockb…
http://antiwar.com/radio/2012/06/04/patrick-cockb…
R.C.
June 5th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
I'm guessing "army."
Lawrence Cutter
June 5th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
Angela,
You say, "The animus toward Jews in the antiwar movement is evident."
Israel is a brutal, murderous, aggressor state. Some obviously feel that the antiwar movement must give Israel a pass on all that because …?
R.C.
June 5th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
What a ridiculous straw man argument you've pulled out of your rear. No one posting in this thread has said nothing of the such. None of the editors at antiwar.com or the posters thus far have expressed any love for Assad, and they certainly don't think he's "wonderful."
What most of us believe is that we should NOT be interfering in Syria's domestic affairs. Do you seriously believe NATO and their gulf puppets are aiding the rebels because they want a "democratic" Syria!? – a concept the Gulf despots despise.
Yes, but please continue speaking "the truth" if that's what you call it, but the readers here will continue to see through this BS for what it is. So please do bring on more fake videos, photos and phony casualty figures. This is Libya redux.
AngelaKeaton
June 5th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
We don't give a pass to people who hate Jews. You concluded from that, that Israel is being given a pass.
Curious.
Drizza
June 5th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
You know what this reminds me of? Remember when Larry King interviewed Ron Paul and Ben Stein, I believe they was talking about why USA should support Yemen and Ben Stein immidietely called Ron Paul an "anti-semite" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOV0qCW7nBA&nomobile=1). No mention of Jews or Jewish or even Zionist was mentioned at all. Seems like that anti semite card is what you use when you are backed into a wall and ran out of facts to debate. So to win the crowd you play that card as oppose to attack the persons characters so you wont have to respond to the facts. What a better world this would be if the word "anti-semite" wouldnt exist. Then we can criticize whoever without any special word labled to you. If you would criticize anyone other group the worse is your going to be called a racist but anything that has to be Jewish you must tread extremely lightly otherwise people jump to conclusions and call you that dreadfull "anti-semite" word.
You people need to take the time and look at the context of what people are saying. You promote critical thinking yet you ban people from challenging you. Once stated had this been any other group in the world especailly Islam because you link Islam, muslim to anything with zero verbal warnings but say one thing critical of a Jewish organization and your time is up.
AngelaKeaton
June 5th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
It doesn't remind you or anyone else of that at all. Nice spin though. You have a sort of Dershowitz style of argumentation.
Curious to know if there was so much love for Assad when he looks the other way when Israelis are bombing cars in Damascus (2004) or his indifference to this bit of fun: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7024287.stm
Or Assad's silence here: http://news.antiwar.com/2011/05/15/reports-20-nak….
And what is happening here: http://news.antiwar.com/2008/11/27/elbaradei-lack…
Connect the dots? No, there is nothing to connect. Obviously we are dealing with complicated actors and motives. All of them evil and bad. For your conspiracy hounds however, it is curious that when I suggested that Assad might have strings coming from his head, two anti-Semites and a former FBI employee came out swinging.
That's swinging as in "doing battle with other activists." I have no idea about anyone's sex life.
AngelaKeaton
June 5th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
It doesn't remind you or anyone else of that at all. Nice spin though. You have a sort of Dershowitz style of argumentation.
Curious to know if there was so much love for Assad when he looks the other way when Israelis are bombing cars in Damascus (2004) or his indifference to this bit of fun: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7024287.stm
Or Assad's silence here: http://news.antiwar.com/2011/05/15/reports-20-nak….
And what is happening here: http://news.antiwar.com/2008/11/27/elbaradei-lack…
Connect the dots? No, there is nothing to connect. Obviously we are dealing with complicated actors and motives. All of them evil and bad. For your conspiracy hounds however, it is curious that when I suggested that Assad might have strings coming from his head, two anti-Semites and a former FBI employee came out swinging.
That's swinging as in "doing battle with other activists." I have no idea about anyone's sex life.
Lawrence Cutter
June 5th, 2012 at 6:01 pm
Angela,
Here's what curious; Between June, you and I, you are the only one who used the word "Jew".
Why do you have such animus towards those in the anti-war movement who believe that Israel should be measured by the same standards as everyone else?
Tartrix
June 5th, 2012 at 8:02 pm
I’m very disappointed by the snotty responses made by Raimondo and Keaton to the commenters in this thread. Raimondo of all people, judging from the insightful articles of his that I’ve read, should be aware of the disproportionate role played by israelist policy wonks, opinion-makers, think-tanks, pressure-groups and government officials in the formulation of American foreign policy. The “Iran/Syrian Axis”, as the neo-cons like to call it, has been the major concern for these guys of late so it should come as no surprise that the israelists in the USA are playing a leading role in getting the USA and their allies to support the Sunni rebels in Syria. This needs to be reported.
Tartrix
June 5th, 2012 at 8:05 pm
Justin: I’m not sure why you call Maidhc a “monomaniacal” “anti-semite”. Maidhc runs a blog specializing in reporting on the israelist, neo-con, Israelophile, zionist, whateverthehellwordyouwannause agenda. That, evidently, is his specialty and just because he doesn’t dedicate time to other issues does not make him racist. The complete failure of the msm to report on the incredible influence wielded by the israelists in America leaves a vast amount of work for a small group of independent reporters like him to see to and throwing out the anti-semite smear just indoctrinates other would-be truth-tellers into shrinking from any critical reporting on a very real and active israelist agenda for fear of being similarly treated.
another guest
June 5th, 2012 at 8:20 pm
You are the joke…a bad one at that…
The UN Human Development rankings are the best measure of Living Standards we have…and are based on measurable things like life expectancy, literacy rate, daily caloric intake etc…
Even if it were true that many Libyans sought work in gulf states it is also true that there were many guest workers in Libya…
And the issue of worker mobility has nothing to do with living standards…I am from a top ranked country Canada who is now working in a country that is in about 60'th place, Serbia…I am here on a contract because my skills are needed here and I am paid well…(I am a pilot and engineer who works iin aircraft flight testing…)
And I am not the only one…
annother guest
June 5th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
Look nobody is buying what you are peddling…as you can see from your deep negative ratings on your comments…
Even comments where you don't even say anything people are immediately giving "thumbs down…"
Why…?…because you are insulting everyone's intelligence here with your BS…every person here has had their BS radar triggered a long time ago by the lies coming out of the MSM on Syria…
I would say even among the uninformed general population skepticism is very high…after the lies of Iraq, Kosovo and many others people have clued in that the US lies bit time…and so does the media…
You are here on an antiwar website for what reason exactly…?…to agitate FOR a war against Syria…?
Take a hint and shut up…
Lawrence Cutter
June 5th, 2012 at 9:02 pm
>>>"That's swinging as in "doing battle with other activists." I have no idea about anyone's sex life."
Thanks for the clarification. Most or all of us would have missed your innuendo without the denial attached. But, you knew that, therefore…
Are we free now to make the obvious innuendos about yours?
ummabdulla
June 5th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
'Even comments where you don't even say anything people are immediately giving "thumbs down…" '
Which tells you something about the people here…
Actually, for years, I've come to antiwar.com every morning to read the news, and I've always appreciated it, but the recent decline towards Russian (maybe Serbian in your case) propaganda is disappointing. Specifically, Jason Ditz, Justin Raimondo and Scott Horton keep repeating that the reports of the Houla massacre never mentioned men coming in and killing people at close range until much later, when the rebels made that up. the problem is that anyone can look up the reports published at the BBC, McClatchy, al-Jazeera, etc., and see that that's simply not true – early reports did say that. This is not a matter of opinion – it's a matter of fact, and easily verifiable.
As someone who lives in the region, has been to Syria, and knows Syrians, I'm here because the lying – by people who complain about mainstream media lies – is not acceptable. The fact that people believe the lies doesn't mean that I should shut up and let the lies continue with not even a question.
The idea that so many people here have – that Libya under Qaddafi, Syria, and Iran are model governments is just so absurd that someone needs to counter it. I'd love for all of you fans to actually live under those regimes and see how you like it.
ummabdulla
June 5th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Posters on articles about the Houla massacre have said that the Syrian government wouldn't kill their own people; when I say that they've been doing it for years, it's all thumbs down. Posters hold up Syria as a model government; they claim that most Syrians support Assad and that the few who don't are terrorists or on the US/Israel payroll…
As I've said before, if someone doesn't lie about the situation, but believes that outsiders shouldn't intervene, then that's a valid opinion. (Like Pat Buchanan today.) But lying about it to justify that opinion is not valid. IT's certainly popular here, though, among the clueless – pretty much none of whom has even shown any sympathy for the people who were killed, no matter who it was that killed them – which is a pretty sad situation.
ummabdulla
June 5th, 2012 at 9:20 pm
He said that the massacre involved shelling by the Syrian army and then killing in people's homes by the shabiha – pro-government militias from nearby Alawite villages.
Misrepresentation of what's really going on in Syria - Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Conservatives, Liberals, Third Parties, Left-Wing, Right-Wing, Congress, President - Page 3 - City-Data Forum
June 5th, 2012 at 9:48 pm
[...] [...]
another guest
June 5th, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Lots of innocent people are killed everyday by Obama drone strikes…I don't see you crying for them…
You accuse people of lying and supporting Assad…but you are the one that has been exposed in lie after lie…and you are clearly supporting the violent rebels who have committed at least as much bloodshed as the Syrian security forces…
Ever day we see headlines about how the Syria rebels have killed dozens…either policement, soldiers…or often times innocent bystanders…
There have been many credible reports that the rebels deliberately target civilians who are not sympathetic to their cause…
But we never hear about this in the mainstream media who seem to cheer on the killings of government security personnel by these terrorists…and only shrug when innocent civilians are victimized by terrorist violence in Syria…
Let us be clear…no one is supporting Assad…although it is quite clear that Obama has much more blood on his hands…
But let us be clear that the Syrian terrorists are just that TERRORISTS…and the US and Nato sponsorship of said terrorists amounts to STATE SANCTIONED TERROR…
Ben_C
June 6th, 2012 at 3:20 am
As for the sectarian factor, very few people outside the region and outside the religion really understand this, but it's there and it's strong.
Who are the members of the "Free Syrian Army" (FSA)? Why do these people insist on exacerbating the suffering of the 'Syrian people' in order to advance their agenda of futility pursuing their own self-interests of petty delusion via the use of 'force'?
About the 'FSA's' "vision" of the 'future'…:
(1) as a coherent and consistent concept, 'it' doesn't even seem to exist in the first place; other than a Syria absent an Assad regime.
(2) pretending a coherent and agreed upon "vision" for the future even existed among the "FSA" in the first place (which it does not); the will of the "FSA" (whatever it even is in the first place) doesn't seem to be shared by the "Syrian people"…as the "Syrian people" seem to support Assad as an aggregate…which is in part, as just one example, evident simply based on the strong "military" support of "Assad"… a 'military' which is majority "Sunni" by composition…
If this is not believed, much less understood, just think of it this way: if Obama's "approval rating" drops to say 30%…possibly lower…and Obama continues to rule in the US… perhaps even gets "reelected"…does this event mean we are a lot more like a "dictatorship" than many would like to admit (if they "understood" in the first place)? Would such a hypothetical event as: a POTUS suffering an "approval rating" of 30% or less…not only surviving in the short term, but even getting reelected…would/'could' such a scenario even be possible in our Utopian system to begin with? Would such an 'unlikely scenario", if it were ever to occur, marginalize "democracy" and our form of government itself?
Do you hate the Syrian people and their will? Are you one who conflates pushing a touch screen at the local high school/library/rec center/place of worship/etc… with "democracy"…much less "freedom"…much less: a perfect, or even crude, reflection of "the people" of any particular nation?
This entire conversation is absurd to begin with… I'm sure 'we' (the US) most likely are perceived as arrogant retards to many objective observers abroad… It's not like "perceptions" of other 'nations' are even significant in terms of policy and/or reality (at present); however, I personally don't like to be associated with mental retardation in any way, shape, or form. Although I'm not part of, much less have ownership of, the national 'discourse' when it comes to Syria–I find it offensive and somehow personally embarrassing…
JMMorgan
June 6th, 2012 at 8:04 am
Just posting my 2 cents worth: I think this is an excellent column and I haven't noticed or been bothered by any of Justin's biases regarding truth, justice or non-intervention. He seems quite consistent and principled to me.
If we got into domestic economic policies our differences might surface.
joe slow
June 6th, 2012 at 9:02 am
free syrian is a paid jack off in a cubicle in a dc propaganda tank/toilet
eric siverson
June 6th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
Do you believe in Shariah law . How could a jewish farmer ever acquire land from muslims that worshiped under Shariah law . I know Serbs and Jews accept muslims as equals . But I don't think freedom is possible under Islamic law . It is not even legal to stop being a muslim right now two factions of muslims are argueing wether or not Shariah should be the law . If you don't believe in Sharia law you can't be a muslim .
Even democracy is not possible , the Koran is the law . I will grant you muslim law is at least superior to trible law , and I even see much good in Shariah law . Yet I can't accept it as my law . I understand imperelism i would say it is really about money , but Islam is more than about money
eric siverson
June 6th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
I feel bad for the inocent killed and the Childran too . If any of Assads forces did this it was bad , But if the free Syrian army forces did this , AlQaida , NATO or anyone attempting to make Assad defece to look bad . Than it was a much worse crime . It would be sorta a double treason crime . This is the kind of crime weaker terrorist forces often use to bring in assistance from the big mad bombers
syriafree
June 7th, 2012 at 2:23 am
I want to ask sir Raimondo if he had seen in any of the films wich they've been recorded from the activists in Houla the photo that he has spoken about, cause no film showed the wrapped bodies with numbers on them, and the photo he has spoken about came later in the internet , what I wanted to say that anyone can upload such a photo as an "Activist" ….so can you please include all the massacres they caused by the regime from more than one year till this moment, I'm sure that you can calculate the number of protestors they've been killed in the protests also…………
R.C.
June 7th, 2012 at 9:20 am
"syriafree" and "Free Syrian" – one and the same propagandist.
The Houla Hoaxsters/ المجرمون السلفيون يقتلون القتيل و يمشون في جنازته!!! | syriano
June 8th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
[...] Posted By Justin Raimondo On June 3, 2012 @ 11:00 pm In Uncategorized | 86 Comments [...]
Paletleme Amirliği, 10 Haziran 2012 « Emrah Göker'in İstifhanesi
June 10th, 2012 at 4:15 am
[...] Suriye’de “Houla Katliamı” balonu neden şişirildi? [...]
America is a Battlefield: In the war against tyranny « Attack the System
June 10th, 2012 at 5:43 pm
[...] The Houla Hoaxsters – June 3rd, 2012 [...]
The Syria Deception | Inner Quests
June 11th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
[...] the title ‘The Houla Hoaxters‘, Justin Raimondo has written a good summary of what is either the media incompetence or else [...]
The End of American Independence
July 3rd, 2012 at 12:38 am
[...] example of how this crowd operates. Fund the “opposition,” funnelarms to the rebels, manufacture atrocity stories and feed them to complicit “mainstream” media outlets – then let the UN and [...]
Tall Tales in Tremseh « Stop Making Sense
July 18th, 2012 at 8:14 am
[...] named but often not, and the details are always quite horrific: There was the “massacre” at Houla, touted by the BBC in a story that included a photo of a boy jumping over the shrouded bodies of [...]
Syrien: Lügen & falsche Videos | halbkrass
July 25th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
[...] genannt, meistens nicht. Die geschilderten Details sind immer ziemlich grausam: Da war das Massaker von Hula (23), verkündet von der BBC in einer Geschichte, welches das Foto eines Jungen enthielt, der über [...]
The Syrian Back Door to War With Iran | My Catbird Seat
March 1st, 2013 at 3:55 pm
[...] a lot of this is utter hogwash: the Syrian opposition has been launching one hoax after another to shame the West into intervening more directly, but their clumsiness in arranging a verifiable [...]
The Israeli-Jihadist Alliance | Thought FTW
May 6th, 2013 at 5:02 am
[...] “chemical weapons” hoax topped the long list of similar scams set up by the Syrian rebels and their Western supporters in its brazen effrontery: not since the [...]
The Israeli-Jihadist Alliance « Set You Free News
May 6th, 2013 at 5:02 am
[...] “chemical weapons” hoax topped the long list of similar scams set up by the Syrian rebels and their Western supporters in its brazen effrontery: not since the [...]
The Israeli-Jihadist Alliance |
May 6th, 2013 at 5:24 am
[...] “chemical weapons” hoax topped the long list of similar scams set up by the Syrian rebels and their Western supporters in its brazen effrontery: not since the [...]
THE ALLIANCE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND AL QAEDA « The Burning Platform
May 8th, 2013 at 12:24 pm
[...] “chemical weapons” hoax topped the long list of similar scams set up by the Syrian rebels and their Western supporters in its brazen effrontery: not since the [...]