“We’ve got Israel’s back” – that is the message President Obama sent out ahead of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s visit to the US for a crucial summit at the White House, and he did it in an interview granted to one of the leading pro-Israel voices in the media, Jeffrey Goldberg, former Israeli prison guard and IDF soldier, now a columnist for The Atlantic. In that interview, Obama basically telegraphed his capitulation to the Israelis, who are demanding the establishment of “red lines” Iran may not cross without provoking an attack:
“[O]ur assessment, which is shared by the Israelis, is that Iran does not yet have a nuclear weapon and is not yet in a position to obtain a nuclear weapon without us having a pretty long lead time in which we will know that they are making that attempt.”
Here is the “red line” the Israelis have been demanding: not the act of building a nuclear weapon but evidence “they are making that attempt.” That is, evidence of their intent to do so, without any corroborating evidence they’ve actually succeeded. The catch is that such an “assessment” based on fresh intelligence would be just as impossible to check as it was in the run-up to the Iraq war, when US officials assured us Saddam was making the Bomb – and citing all sorts of completely invented “intelligence” to back it up. In short, we won’t find out if we were lied into war until well after the war has started – devastating the region, the world economy, and all hopes for peace.
The Goldberg interview, and the President’s speech to AIPAC, have both underscored the intensely political nature of the debate over Iran, which is not about objectively discernible facts, but about our perception of those facts. Obama spent thousands of words reassuring Goldberg he means business, that the threat to attack Iran isn’t a bluff – even as he acknowledged Iran does not now possess and lacks the capability to produce nuclear weapons.
When he was running for President, Obama pledged to sit down with Iran’s leaders, unconditionally, and negotiate an end to this crisis. He lied. In spite of purely symbolic efforts to make it look like he was indeed fulfilling his promise, in reality the prospect of direct talks with Tehran was dropped soon after he took office. His administration has rudely rejected all attempts by the Iranians to come to the conference table and reach what Obama referred to during the last presidential campaign as a “comprehensive” agreement on the “outstanding issues” between the two countries. Instead, he has imposed a series of escalating sanctions that are punishing the Iranian people and solidifying the control of hardliners in the regime, even as he escalates the belligerent rhetoric directed at Tehran.
Obama, as is his wont, has taken the path of least resistance – which is, indeed, the path to war. It is an easier path because to take up diplomacy would entail the sort of political risks the President seems incapable of taking, at least in the international policy arena. All his cards are on his domestic agenda – the healthcare battle, a stimulus-driven “recovery,” and the various appeals to identity politics that have displaced the issue of war and peace from the “liberal” agenda.
The President dropped his purely rhetorical efforts to “engage” the Iranians because his constituency stopped caring about it: there was no longer any political necessity to act, and so inaction followed. Indeed, what followed was a rapid escalation of curiously Bush-like threats, growing in vehemence as the Israel lobby’s war drive got underway. How many times has this President groveled at AIPAC’s feet, bowing and scraping as he reassures them of his undivided fealty? Why is that?
The reason is the pervasive influence of the Israel lobby: its power and reach, extending deep into the leadership of both parties. On top of that, it is the sheer ferocity of the Lobby’s wrath that inspires fear and a consequent reluctance to tangle with such a ruthless opponent. All a blogger at a Democrat-friendly think tank has to do is use the phrase “Israel-firster” when describing someone like, say, Norman Podhoretz, or the Rev. John Hagee, and the fist of the Lobby comes down hard – in the form of a full page ad in the New York Times! A whole cadre of self-appointed policemen of the discourse regularly patrol the internet, and the nation’s print media, hunting down heretics, i.e. critics of Israel and our Israel-centric foreign policy, openly seeking to silence them.
What the War Party fears above all is an open and vigorous discussion of a key question: on whose behalf we will be fighting if war with Iran breaks out? Because the answer to that question is clearly Israel, as that nation’s government has loudly proclaimed from the beginning. The Israelis claim they face an “existential” threat from Iran, in effect accusing war opponents of turning away as the Second Holocaust commences. The message is clear: save us, or be damned.
Yet there is nothing to justify this apocalyptic hysteria. Iran has no nukes [.pdf], and lacks the technical means – and the intent – to build them. This has been confirmed for the second time by the most recent National Intelligence Estimate. It is a fact our President acknowledges – even as he moves the goalposts back and draws a new “red line” in the sand.
The doctrine of America’s “right” to preemptively attack
any nation on earth, on the basis of a possible future threat, was the hallmark
“contribution” of the second Bush administration to the history
of American foreign policy, and has never been
repudiated by the Obama-ites. Indeed, they are upholding and even extending
it far beyond its original parameters. For the Bush gang was targeting al-Qaeda,
and, while in theory, the preemptive principle could be applied to any potential
threat, in practice they were narrowly focused on al-Qaeda, e.g. they constructed
an elaborate justification for the Iraq war by positing an operational
connection between Osama bin Laden and Saddam’s regime. folly
The Obama administration is taking this preemptive strike doctrine one giant step further, and applying it to include the alleged “threat” emanating from Tehran. This is the concession demanded by the Israelis, and in his interview with Goldberg the President telegraphed his surrender before Netanyahu’s plane touched down.
Remember the fanciful “Prague connection,” and those alleged al-Qaeda “training camps” in Iraq that turned out to be nonexistent? Get ready for a deluge of similarly manufactured “intelligence” indicating the Iranians are at a “breakthrough point,” i.e. they have the materials, the know-how, and the intent to build a nuclear arsenal. We’ll be deluged with “intelligence” churned out by the same lie factory that flooded the airwaves and the internet with war propaganda in the months before we invaded Iraq. This time it’s going to be much worse because the “mainstream” media is in Obama’s pocket. They hated Bush, and were eager to undermine his administration’s credibility, and so when evidence of intelligence-tampering surfaced they were more than willing to give it publicity: dissident CIA and others in the government who opposed the rush to war were given a voice. Next time around it won’t be so easy, and especially during an election year.
Netanyahu is traveling to Washington not just to persuade an American President to take the US to war, but to persuade his own people that war with Iran is not only a necessity but a credible option, i.e. a war they have some chance of winning. Polls show Israelis would support attacking Iran only if the US joined the fight. If he is to have his war, Netanyahu must get Obama to do most of the fighting for him.
In short, Netanyahu needs Obama more than Obama needs him. His challenge, therefore, is to reverse that by calling on Israel’s amen corner in the US and exerting maximum political pressure on the President during what promises to be a difficult reelection campaign. That effort appears to be succeeding, if preliminary indications such as the Goldberg interview and the AIPAC speech are to be taken at face value.
Obama says he has Israel’s back – but who has America’s back? For how long will we have to live with the “blowback” from Netanyahu’s war – not only the threat of a renewed spate of terrorism but also the economic blowback, which promises to be fearsome?
What this episode dramatizes, in vivid fashion, is the central premise of what I call “libertarian realism,” a theory of foreign relations that attributes the actions of states in the international arena to the internal political dynamics of the actors rather than any objective assessment of the justification and costs of the conflict. In a phrase: it’s all politics.
Here is how and why America goes to war in the modern era: Some special interest group, or alliance of self-interested factions with friends in Washington, has something to gain from provoking a war to overthrow this or that Hitler-of-the-moment, whether it be Slobodan Milosevic, Saddam Hussein, or Iran’s Supreme Leader. They organize a coordinated campaign: a public relations firm or two is hired. The political consultants come out in droves, and their allies in the punditariat are mobilized for battle. A few billionaires are rounded up to pay the bills, and the grassroots groups are set in motion. As if by magic, the phones of members of Congress suddenly light up with calls about the latest Threat from whomever is the Enemy-of-the-moment. Editorials are written, speeches are made, “intelligence” is leaked, and the nation works itself up into a frenzy. At which point the Commander-in-chief solemnly discharges his grave responsibility and gets on with the moment of shock-and-awe we’ve all been waiting for.
A multinational empire such as the United States of America is particularly prone to this kind of pressure. With a multitude of ethnic and religious groups making up the Great American Mosaic, there is hardly a trouble spot on earth without its special pleaders and partisans in the US, organized and eager to make its case – which is usually the case for US intervention, in some form or other, to “solve” some age-old conflict halfway around the world.
In this case, it is the model and success story of such lobbies, the network of well-funded and super-organized groups that make the case for Israel to the American public. A more formidable opponent would be hard to imagine: they have the resources, the connections, the grassroots heft, and they know how to use it. Yet we at Antiwar.com are not hesitating for a single moment to take them on, come what may.
Which is why your continued financial support is so important at this juncture. The Israel lobby is spending millions every month to pave the way for a catastrophic war with Iran – a war that will kill many thousands, bring down the American economy, and tip the world into a global depression. We can stop it if we wake up the American people in time – but we can’t do it if we can’t pay the bills.
This is the most difficult – and certainly the longest – fundraiser we’ve ever had, and I have to say it is not very encouraging. Can it be that we are still over $5000 short of our goal – after three solid weeks of daily appeals?
We are fighting the battle of our life, against an opponent that has all the resources they’ll ever need. Yet we don’t need to equal their millions – we just need a basic minimum to get the truth out, while they, on the other hand, need all the funding they can get in order to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people. Truth is a powerful weapon, but it must be given a voice or else falsehood wins out. Please don’t let the voice of truth be silenced for lack of what is a relative pittance – make your tax-deductible contribution today.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Edward Snowden vs. the Sovietization of America – June 18th, 2013
- A Note to My Readers – June 16th, 2013
- Datagate and the Death of American Liberalism – June 13th, 2013
- Smear Brigade Goes After Snowden – June 11th, 2013
- Edward Snowden, American Hero – June 9th, 2013





Dr.Khan
March 4th, 2012 at 10:34 pm
Prostitution at its worst,DO ME FOR FREE.That's exactly what USA is doing.
Mojo
March 4th, 2012 at 10:55 pm
So all that mimicking Dr. Martin Luther king and being leftist or Liberal and promises doing this and that was forgiven by Israel if Obama were going to give up the “HOPE”, actually “HOPE” is the only thing that his feeding the american people with, beside that word they haven't got anything, bankers doing good as before they just waiting for a better time to arrive to do more harm then before, jobless numbers are up, people are still homeless and the number is rising, the Libyan war is about feudalism not democracy, so is the case with Syrian, Iran war is looming, the US prison in Cuba is open to everyone, including US citizens now, Afghanistan war is still ongoing, so is the case with militarizing people daily life in US limiting their freedom of everything. So what did you expect, a miracle by a US president who falsifies democracy and don't no where he is, who is who and what they are and doing, letting Hillary Clinton in charge of everything and do whatever and wherever asking for Saudis and UAE the most feudalism regime in this world for help changing everything in Middle East, what is next the third world war, don't worry you Liberal democrats.., just keep your HOPE UP a notch it will come to your doorstep asking for your help.
Duglarri
March 4th, 2012 at 11:34 pm
But Obama's reference to South Africa as a model leaves some grounds for hope; it could just be that Netanyahu is not getting the red line he wants.
If his "red line" is Iran throwing out the IAEA and going for a bomb full-speed, well, that's not going to happen. The Iranians are not going to do that.
So Netanyahu may be making the best of a failure. He's not going to get his war.
illUminAti0n
March 5th, 2012 at 1:31 am
Any day now I expect to hear that our children will be required to pledge allegiance to the nation of Israel rather than the US.
montaigne
March 5th, 2012 at 4:06 am
As I see it, the US needs Israel mostly as a sort of lkiving proof from WW2, that American leads GOOD wars. An enormous self-deception at ridiculous costs and producing a lot of risks – which in a perverse way is another sort of "proof" of this basic human excellence of Americans.
A sort of political type of religion. Though without any God, only based on massive bluffs for dummies.
liberal
March 5th, 2012 at 5:31 am
"They hated Bush…"
Would that it were so.
plaiddog
March 5th, 2012 at 6:07 am
What about Iran not selling oil in dollars, selling oil in competition with NY and London and not generally endorsing usury as additional reasons to "take them out?) Yes, they also have a large reserve of relatively inexpensive oil. How dare "they" stand up to the "powers that be."
Outrageous, didn't "they read the memo?"
Nelson_2008
March 5th, 2012 at 6:40 am
It has recently been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that "our" putative President's birth certificate and selective service registration card are fraudulent. This damning revelation places "our" putative President at the center of a massive, high level criminal conspiracy to defraud the people of the U.S. and to subvert an important National Security safeguard of the U.S. Constitution.
And this isn't even deemed newsworthy at antiwar.com?
Obama sits as the self-appointed judge of the whole world, pronouncing judgment on the legitimacy of other countries' governments and rulers, threatening WW3…while his own Presidency is shown to be manifestly illegitimate…and nobody cares?
I submit that our problem is not so much the "pervasive influence of the Israel lobby", as claimed, but the pervasive criminality of it.
And here we have a loose thread which, if pulled, may unravel the whole thing, and not even the so-called "alternative media" will go near it?
F.A. Hayek Fan
March 5th, 2012 at 7:48 am
I'm to the point where I really don't care anymore. They are going to do what they are going to do no matter the consequences to the economy or the country. The consequences the rest of us will feel will not affect them because they are wealthy and live mostly off the largess of the American people. No matter how bad things get they will ensure that they, their friends, and their families are well taken care of. While we struggle with the consequences of their actions they will continue to live in luxury and the American people will continue to reward them by voting for them.
All of the people I served with and all of the relatives I had in the military are retired now. I already have plans in place for my children to leave the country in case of a draft. It won't be my kids coming home in a box. If others want their children dying for the apartheid state of Israel and the evangelical/fundamentalist death cults then all i can do is hope that they get their wish – in spades.
Obama’s Red Line by Justin Raimondo — Antiwar.com | My Marketing File
March 5th, 2012 at 7:54 am
[...] Obama’s Red Line by Justin Raimondo — Antiwar.com. [...]
Nelson_2008
March 5th, 2012 at 8:07 am
It's much more insidious than that: they've simply redefined "the U.S."; thus children are already pledging allegience to Israel and they don't even realize it. Haven't you noticed? People who think we should be following the Constitution are "terrorists" or "terrorist supporters" or something like that.
John V. Walsh
March 5th, 2012 at 8:08 am
Obama's constituency on domestic affairs is deserting him – even as much of his "progressive" antiwar base has deserted him since the Obama the dove has turned out to be a hawk – or at least too chicken to remain a dove. (I believe in the closet hawk thesis is more credible than the chicken turned hawk thesis BTW.)
This erosion on domestic policy support now extends to health care with 50 physicians, mainly of left wing disposition, joining the Right in opposing ObomneyCare.
See:
"Fifty Medical Doctors for Single Payer Urge Supreme Court to Strike Down Individual Mandate"
Single Payer Action, Feb. 14, 2012 http://www.singlepayeraction.org/blog/?p=3178
Obomba cannot afford a war before the election IMO. It would be the last straw for too many of his supporters. But AFTER the election, watch out.
But even then I am a bit more optimistic. Putin and the Chinese handed the US Empire a little Waterloo at the UN when they blocked a "humanitarian" war on Syria – which might have been the gateway to Tehran. Putin is back and he remembers the betrayal of Reagan's promises to Gorbachev that Clinton delivered. Won't get fooled again.
andy
March 5th, 2012 at 9:32 am
The US "needs" Israel like an individual "needs" to get cancer.
jeff_davis
March 5th, 2012 at 9:33 am
Indeed.
It may in fact have been true that they hated Bush, but they were utterly obeisant in sucking up to him, per the AIPAC/Israeli/Neocon/War Party requirement, right up until November of 2006 when the worm turned. At that point, they recalibrated for the soon-to-be post-Bush era, got onto the post-Bush bandwagon, warmed to the emotional-salvation Kabuki that ushered in "Springtime for Obama".
Then of course the economy cratered. Obama's cloak of lofty rhetoric fell away as he became Bush-not-so-lite, while betrayal and a craven focus on re-election became the order of the day.
The utter corruption of the power class in the US, combined with the citizenry's comprehensive reality disconnect, suggests to me that the US will have to suffer a catastrophic fall. Only the crash and burn will finally wake it up.
Sad.
Benjacomin Bozart
March 5th, 2012 at 9:33 am
We're paying $billions to be shamed and whipped. We are a masochist nation wanting the worse with no safe word.
andy
March 5th, 2012 at 9:34 am
Obama is Tsar Nicholas leading his sheep into the abyss for the benefit of a small crappy country of no account. So sad.
Benjacomin Bozart
March 5th, 2012 at 9:37 am
Actually real religion. The evangelical right are looking at this in Biblical interpretation. Israel is God's nation and they are the chosen people and if we don't do what they say we will incur his wrath. Plus there is the Revelation end of times people who are probably fretting because Israel hasn't bulldozed the dome of the rock and rebuilt the Temple so a world obliterating nuclear war is a bit premature but maybe we can get a bye for that with the Second Coming.
Benjacomin Bozart
March 5th, 2012 at 9:38 am
Obama is a foreign extremists Muslim terrorist in league with AIPAC?
jeff_davis
March 5th, 2012 at 9:47 am
Didn't you see the sign above the entrance to Antiwar.com:
Morons not welcome here!!!
Nelson_2008
March 5th, 2012 at 10:07 am
Well you're here, Goofball, so apparently that's not the case.
Is There Any Freedom Remaining in America? » Scott Lazarowitz's Blog
March 5th, 2012 at 10:35 am
[...] Justin Raimondo: Obama’s Red Line [...]
Nelson_2008
March 5th, 2012 at 10:48 am
You should get into the habit of the reading the posts you're respond to. (Or if you don't understand what you're reading, maybe you can find a helpful adult in your neighborhood who can read the posts, and then explain them to you in simpler terms, commensurate with your profoundly limited faculties).
andy
March 5th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
All you can do is just cover your own A**. Don't join up. Don't let your relatives join up. Let somebody else die for Israel and the globalists. Don't be their sap.
San Fernando Curt
March 5th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
With power of the Lobby, and our media's unvarying support of it, I'm not sure what any president could do. Looking over the transcript of his speech, Obama seemed to reject that "capability" red-line and pushed it back to setting military option only when Iran acquires one. And he merely reiterated, repeatedly, how wonderful Israel is, how close a friend it is, blah blah, to smooth over everything. The Lobby doesn't like because Netanyahu doesn't; he knows it, they know he knows it. What's key is extent to which Israel wants our strategy to go. Nothing but occupation and Iraq-style neutering will work. That's what's demanded, nothing less.
ANU News.net Obama’s Red Line
March 5th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
[...] When he was running for President, Obama pledged to sit down with Iran’s leaders, unconditionally, and negotiate an end to this crisis. He lied. In spite of purely symbolic efforts to make it look like he was indeed fulfilling his promise, in reality the prospect of direct talks with Tehran was dropped soon after he took office. His administration has rudely rejected all attempts by the Iranians to come to the conference table and reach what Obama referred to during the last presidential campaign as a “comprehensive” agreement on the “outstanding issues” between the two countries. Instead, he has imposed a series of escalating sanctions that are punishing the Iranian people and solidifying the control of hardliners in the regime, even as he escalates the belligerent rhetoric directed at Tehran. Obama, as is his wont, has taken the path of least resistance – which is, indeed, the path to war. http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/03/04/obamas-red-line/ [...]
Get Ready for Stupor Poosday! | GoddamnLiberal
March 5th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
[...] yeah, meanwhile, we’re getting closer and closer to going to war, because we are America, and that is what we do. But don’t get distracted by that, because [...]
DamianOmentoo
March 5th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Just drop a hollywood prop over it.
Sam
March 5th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
`As president and commander in chief, I have a deeply-held preference for peace over war.' That is the case-
liberranter
March 5th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Obomba cannot afford a war before the election IMO. It would be the last straw for too many of his supporters. But AFTER the election, watch out.
Let me say it again. Since Obama is nothing but a figurehead, it doesn't really matter whether or not he wants to start a war, or what he thinks is wise or unwise. If his puppeteers want a war, even if it inconveniently precedes the fake election to give him a second term as "president," then that's when the war will start. (I'm betting too that he's just arrogant and stupid enough to believe that he's guaranteed another four years on the toy throne). If Obama expresses any heartburn with that, or if he is idiotic enough to try to take steps to stop it (imagine the sixth grade class president of an elementary school trying to unseat the Principal and put an end to homework assignments), history will repeat itself – he'll end up just like JFK.
As for any "constituency that Obama might have, all I can say is that it's obvious that the left isn't any smarter than the right when it comes to being "fooled again" with predictable regularity by "one of their own."
Robert C.
March 5th, 2012 at 4:55 pm
There has been blowback against Israel in the works for years. If Israel attacks Iran, it will be Israel's last war. This sick pariah state will be hysterical once bombs in droves are reigning down on its cities, and no one will care…and if it uses a nuke..Israel will be nuked.
DamianOmentu
March 5th, 2012 at 5:36 pm
Possible that Israel could be seen as an aggressor nation considering everyone is saying Iran isn't currently making any nuclear bombs or material to build one. Barry is also big time pro UN. Bibi saying he has a right to defend Israel won't cut it if there isn't any threat. Just an opinion but I don't think Obomba has much love for Israel.
Andrewp111
March 5th, 2012 at 6:47 pm
I have a different take on this. I think the plan all along is to pressure Iran so they will start racing full steam ahead to making nuclear weapons, culminating with an Iranian nuclear test. We have to goad them to stop hesitating to cross "red lines", and just go for it. Once Iran does a test and the Bearded Monkey gets on TV and beats his chest about it, Israel will have the perfect excuse to hit the launch button, and Iran will be incinerated by 100 thermonuclear warheads.
Andrewp111
March 5th, 2012 at 7:27 pm
The problem with Iran is that they are a rational actor on the world stage, despite the extreme ideological nature of the regime. They understand the consequences of crossing "red lines" before they are truly ready with real deterrent power. They know that conducting a nuclear test would result in a massive first strike unless Iran has already deployed a massive nuclear arsenal before the test. The challenge is to get Iran to make an emotional decision instead of a rational one. We have to make them feel so imminently threatened that they will either conduct a nuclear test now or attack Israel now instead of waiting until they have 100 warheads deployed on missiles. That is what all the war talk is about. Get Iran to make emotional decisions. Israeli Jews are too moralistic to nuke a country that hasn't demonstrated nuclear weapons capability. Once Iran demonstrates a nuke, Israel launches half of everything it has against Iran, and Iran's population goes to zero.
Andrewp111
March 5th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
This is the perfect reason for the USA to destroy Iran, to make an example of them. Just as the Roman Empire made an example of Carthage. As a Global Empire, we have every right to take out any threat to our dominance.
Debbie(aussie)
March 5th, 2012 at 8:22 pm
"This time it’s going to be much worse because the “mainstream” media is in Obama’s pocket. They hated Bush, and were eager to undermine his administration’s credibility, and so when evidence of intelligence-tampering surfaced they were more than willing to give it publicity: dissident CIA and others in the government who opposed the rush to war were given a voice. Next time around it won’t be so easy, and especially during an election year." You are kidding right? MSM were in Bushs' pocket, the same as now. Who was it that elected in 200?, Not Kerry? Why say something like this?
Debbie(aussie)
March 5th, 2012 at 8:25 pm
Snark, yes? If not whooooooo!
Debbie(aussie)
March 5th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
that should be 2004/sorry
John_Muhammad
March 5th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
Gadhafi was poised to do the very same thing- take Libyan oil off the dollar standard- and instead trade in gold. Look where it got him, and now the country he had built up- not all that bad, from what I understand- is now in ruins. All over oil. Always oil.
John_Muhammad
March 5th, 2012 at 8:41 pm
In the case of this website, I would speculate that if that particular avenue were trumpeted all over these articles we would soon find this site- as well as each of us individually- instantly placed in the 'conspiracy theory/truther/birther/ufoer/lochnesser/rosweller' handbasket and our views summarily dismissed. As it stands, I- and I'm sure others here- understand that while it is a tantalizing item to debate and mull over, the fact is we've got bigger fish to fry. Right now, I'm more concerned about Obama completely selling out to Israel and sending more of our sons and daughters to be killed for Tel Aviv than I am about where he was born. Let's handle the clear and present danger first and not let ourselves get sidetracked.
John_Muhammad
March 5th, 2012 at 8:51 pm
If that's the case, doesn't Iran already have a perfect excuse to attack Israel right this minute in view of the threats and pressures Tel Aviv has been stacking on Tehran for years? If Israel has a "right" to attack Iran, Iran has the same "right" to attack Israel- doesn't it?
The fact is, though, the Iranian leadership is not stupid- they know much of the world is influenced by Israeli disinformation and outright lies, and if Iran fires the first shot it will be trumpeted as "proof" of their evil ways. If Iran plays it smart, they will let someone else make the first move and instantly gain for themselves the moral high ground (assuming there IS any moral high ground left in this whole sordid affair).
Nelson_2008
March 5th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
You know and I know that the people involved in the Obama Presidential eligibility fraud are the same group of people responsible for lots of other evil, no?
And they've been caught red-handed. They now have a weak spot. A vulnerability.
You want to stop them? You have to go after them where they're vulnerable. Look at Al Capone's criminal enterprise. They didn't get him for the St. Valentine's Day Massacre, rather, they got him for tax evasion.
Johnny in Wi.
March 5th, 2012 at 10:49 pm
This country can never be free if we continue to let the Israeli lobby get us into another war. From what I read I think most of the military establishment in this country wants nothing to do with another war fought for Israel. They and the intelligence establishment have had enough. They are finally saying the truth. That Iran is not buliding any nuclear weapon and a war with Iran could have disasterous consequences.
American Muse
March 6th, 2012 at 3:19 am
Cleaver suckers, those Israelites! Having written their Bible themselves, they simply portrayed their own kind as "chosen." Besides a few Zionist Christians (and probably Obama), no one else believes that crap.
American Muse
March 6th, 2012 at 3:36 am
If Obama said that, don't believe a word of it.
American Muse
March 6th, 2012 at 3:45 am
Debbie is right – the MSM are whores, they'll go with whoever is in power.
conumishu
March 6th, 2012 at 10:44 am
If it is immoral for Israel to nuke a country wich has no nuclear weapons, it remains immoral to nuke a country which has nuclear weapons when the said country didn't attack Israel. Emotional or extremely calculated, if the Iranians decide to acquire nuclear weapons, nothing changes on the moral "battleground".
There wasn't, there isn't and it will never be a moral argument for preemptive strikes, especially nuclear ones. Even the mutual assured destruction includes a moral standing, only the retaliation fear itself can't prevent the catastrophe. Truth is retaliation doesn't become ethically justified, in fact, the first striker might have the chance the other side won't retaliate even if it is left with enough capabilities exactly because it wouldn't make sense from a moral point of view. Revenge may be understandable but it is still immoral.
Anyone who tries to dilute the moral imperative, to push for "red lines" into a grey area where it "has to be" only about politics or strategic calculations could be worse than a criminal.
I know it may sound outlandish, but there are no technological safeguards if the moral stand was abandoned, only silly illusions. Probably that's why nowadays warmongers often try to paint the other side as irrational. In fact, they try to equate irrational with immoral inside the recipient mind in a vain attempt to justify an eventual immoral action of their own. You can't "justify" genocide against madmen, you need "evil" on the other side. Sometimes you need to put it more bluntly (disadvantage of excessive manipulation).
"Jews are too moralistic to nuke a country that hasn't demonstrated nuclear weapons capability." Either they are moralistic or they aren't, Iranian nuclear capabilities or even acknowledged nuclear weapons arsenal won't change a thing. You can't be "too moralistic", either you behave as a moral person or you don't, regardless who you are facing. Humankind brought the nuclear holocaust fear upon itself once the atomic weapons were made. Now we have to live with it, not preemptively "delete" slices of mankind found(!?) guilty for the sin we all bear.
allwarallthetime
March 6th, 2012 at 11:12 am
But they are still waiting for Iran to get desperate. They'll leave them with 2 choices, fight and die or starve. That seems to be what they are trying. Obama is saying wait for the sanctions to work, to get Israel not to attack, but if you look at it another way, Israel could've have just bombed the reactors and called it a day, before we created the chaos of the sanctions. That would have also left Iran's government in place and saved more people. There are lot's of ways to spin it.
Sam
March 6th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
"Typically, it's not the folks who are popping off who pay the price it’s the men and women in uniform who pay the price." He added that the Iranian issue requires a "careful, thoughtful approach."
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