Ron Paul vs. the GOP Establishment
It’s round two – and the stakes are higher
As libertarianism becomes more visible, politically, and gains ground in the GOP, the enemies of freedom are poised – on both the right and the left – for the attack. Libertarians have never had to deal with this problem before, in the main because their movement was considered marginal, if it was considered at all. Today, however, the situation is quite different: a wave of “anti-government” (i.e. pro-freedom) sentiment is sweeping the country, and the realization that libertarians were the original tea-partiers – coupled with the electoral success of that populist upsurge – has the Establishment in a panic. What we’re seeing is a two-pronged, left-right attack on libertarians, with the initial forays in the foreign policy realm.
The main thrust of the attack is naturally directed at the leader of the libertarian movement, the man who has done the most to make libertarianism a significant political force in the modern world, and that man is Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas). Ron has single-handedly raised the profile of the movement way beyond what anyone imagined only a few years ago. A lot of this has to do with Ron’s prescient warnings about the state of the economy, and the bursting of the real estate bubble, which have given him the kind of authority he never enjoyed in all the years spent crying in the wilderness.
However, Ron’s prescience isn’t limited to economics: unlike most conservatives, Ron was clear from the very beginning that our foreign policy of global intervention would blow back in our faces some day, and the 9/11 terrorist attacks confirmed his view in a way that was not, at first, readily apparent. Yet Ron kept making this point, even in the wake of the war hysteria that followed the attacks, and ten years anon – as a war-weary and dead broke America staggers and seems about to fall – his views are seen as prophetic rather than marginal.
This is precisely what terrifies the Republican party Establishment, and positively enrages the neoconservatives, whose entire philosophy is predicated on the glorification of war. As might be expected, they are sharpening their knives and hoping to go in for the kill, but they can’t do what Rudy Giuliani tried to do the last time around when he got up on his high horse and demanded Ron “take back” his statement that the 9/11 attacks were “blowback,” in CIA parlance, an unintended consequence of our foreign policy adventurism in the Middle East. Rudy, for his trouble, got a grand total of one delegate in the 2008 Republican primaries, and this time around – he’s made noises about entering the fray again – I wouldn’t be surprised if he got less than that. Ron, on the other hand, went on to become the grand old man of the populist Tea Party movement, a candidate whose million-dollar “money-bombs” are a fundraiser’s dream and whose political prospects brighten by the day.
No, this time around the neocons have to be a bit more subtle, while cashing in on the last dregs of the post-9/11 war hysteria. And the only way to do that is to completely misconstrue his words, and twist them to mean something other than what was intended – and then spread the “Ron-said-this” meme far and wide. The latest such attempt was an interview with Simon Conway, a British import with a radio show in Iowa, in which Ron was asked if, given his opposition to violating the sovereignty of other countries, he would have ordered the raid that assassinated Osama bin Laden. Ron answered that, if he were President, “Things would be done somewhat differently.” You’ll note he didn’t say there would have been no raid: instead, he cited the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the actual mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, who was found and arrested by the Pakistanis, as an example of US-Pakistani cooperation.
Conway follows up by saying “I don’t want to put words in your mouth” and then proceeds to put words in Ron’s mouth by stating that “you would not have ordered the raid.” Ron then says: “No. No, it was absolutely not necessary” – in this locution, “it” refers, not to the option of a joint US-Pakistani raid, but to a unilateral raid kept secret from the Pakistani government. Once again, Conway goes into his “I don’t want to put words in your mouth” routine, and reiterates that Ron is saying he wouldn’t have ordered any raid whatsoever. Ron answers: “Not the way it took place.”
Naturally, the neocons jumped all over this, with a short piece in National Review claiming in a headline “Ron Paul Wouldn’t Have Ordered Bin Laden Raid,” and quoting only a single sentence – “It was absolutely not necessary” – torn out of context. NR followed this up with an extended riff on the same theme, by one Marion Smith, who starts out his polemic with a lie – “Last month, Ron Paul said he would not have ordered the military action that ended in the death of Osama Bin Laden. In his view, ‘It was absolutely not necessary’” – and then goes into a lengthy historical disquisition about the Barbary pirates and other irrelevant topics. Before careening off on that tangent, however, Smith briefly touches on the real issue:
“In the case of the bin Laden raid, Paul argues that the United States had no more right to violate Pakistan’s sovereignty than to violate England’s, had Bin Laden hypothetically been lodged in London instead of Abbottabad. But bin Laden was not in London, and for an obvious reason: The United Kingdom is an ally, in the true sense of the word. Pakistan, it seems, is not. Nevertheless, the strict non-interventionist argues that the U.S. should have respected Pakistan’s sovereignty.”
Marion’s argument is based on the dubious assumption that President Obama was telling us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about the raid being a “secret” withheld from Pakistani authorities. This is certainly odd coming from a magazine that spends the rest of its column inches questioning the President’s credibility. How do we really know who knew about the bin Laden operation in advance and who didn’t? This Guardian news report avers that an agreement had been made, well in advance, that such a raid conducted in Pakistani territory would be immediately disavowed by the authorities in Islamabad, although it would be carried out with their consent. As the Guardian put it:
“The US and Pakistan struck a secret deal almost a decade ago permitting a US operation against Osama bin Laden on Pakistani soil similar to last week’s raid that killed the al-Qaida leader, the Guardian has learned.
“The deal was struck between the military leader General Pervez Musharraf and President George Bush after Bin Laden escaped US forces in the mountains of Tora Bora in late 2001, according to serving and retired Pakistani and US officials.
“Under its terms, Pakistan would allow US forces to conduct a unilateral raid inside Pakistan in search of Bin Laden, his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and the al-Qaida No3. Afterwards, both sides agreed, Pakistan would vociferously protest the incursion.”
Although Antiwar.com ran this story when it appeared – and Ron, I know, is one of our regular readers – he must have missed this one. In any case, the Musharraf-Bush deal was no doubt still in effect when the raid that killed bin Laden was launched – or else why are we sending them billions of US taxpayer dollars? – and so the entire dispute is simply a lot of hot air. The raid was indeed carried out with the cooperation of Pakistan, no violation of Pakistani sovereignty took place, and the President was simply telling a half truth when he said the operation was kept secret from Pakistan: we may not have told them when we were going to launch it, but they had agreed to it in advance anyway.
Ron’s point about the importance of respecting the national sovereignty of our allies is, here, underscored by what actually took place: the reality is that we didn’t just barge in, without any legal or moral justification, and simply take out bin Laden. Islamabad was in on it from the start, and – as the President noted in his address to the nation – intelligence provided by Pakistan played an important role in the operation’s success.
If you go to YouTube and listen to the Conway interview, or the part which deals with foreign policy, Ron gives precisely the right answer when asked if we should get out of Afghanistan (and Pakistan) now that bin Laden is dead: “We should’ve done that a long time ago,” he said. “I’ve been saying that all along.” Indeed, we could have pulled off the raid on bin Laden’s Abbottabad headquarters without invading either Iraq or Afghanistan: both invasions were a typically American over-reaction to what should have been an operation focused on intelligence-gathering and what boils down to ordinary police work.
The Mafia, too, was a terrorist organization, one that, at the height of its power, killed a great many people on American soil – and yet we didn’t have to invade Italy to neutralize them.
At a time when even Republicans are learning the lesson of what happens to empires that allow themselves to become over-extended, the War Party lives in mortal fear of Ron Paul’s message of a peaceful, non-interventionist foreign policy. They are desperate to convince the public that Paul is against defending the country, and even that he sympathizes with the terrorists. This was Giuliani’s failed tactic, and they’re trying it again. It won’t work any better this time around: more and more conservatives are questioning the neoconservative dogma that all war all the time is a sane or sustainable foreign policy for a republic. The impending bankruptcy of the US has imbued this lesson with a new urgency – and that accounts for the urgency of the smear campaign against Paul, which is only just beginning to unfold.
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
At the beginning of this column, I wrote that the attacks on Ron and the movement he leads are coming from the left as well as the right, with the implicit promise that I’d write about both prongs. After 1500 words or so, however, it looks like I’ll have to deal with the attack from the left in a future column.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013





Johnny in Wi.
June 7th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
Justin: They will take every word Ron has ever spoken or written and use misquotes, misinterpertations, and downright lies against him. Everyone also makes a dumb comment once and awhile. They will throw these and the kitchen sink at him. If he ever comes close to the nomination, I would fear for his life. These people will stop at nothing to keep their power. Ron has started a great movement. We need a lot of people to pick up the oars and start rowing and help him out.
Ira7Epstein
June 7th, 2011 at 10:44 pm
I do not think the Republican party establishment has to worry about an impending takeover by Libertarians. This is just the typical Republican ruse. They pose as antigovernment libertarians when they are in opposition but what happens when they gain power? How many laws do they repeal? How many government departments do they abolish? What do they do in power that actually shrinks the size, scope, and power of the Federal government? These questions anwser themselves. The Republican party is the party of war, welfare, and torture just like the Democratic party. Nothing is going to change that including Ron Paul,
liberranter
June 7th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
Of course Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate that liberty lovers of any flavor would ever even consider voting for in a presidential election. But then again, liberty lovers with more than a single brain cell in their crania know that presidential elections are rigged games. For this reason no liberty lover would ever waste time or energy casting a vote in a rigged charade for a man who, notwithstanding the fact that he's the only one deserving of the office, will NEVER be allowed anywhere near the presidency.
liberranter
June 7th, 2011 at 11:43 pm
This is just the typical Republican ruse. They pose as antigovernment libertarians when they are in opposition but what happens when they gain power? How many laws do they repeal? How many government departments do they abolish? What do they do in power that actually shrinks the size, scope, and power of the Federal government? These questions anwser themselves.
And it should be equally obvious by now that this is just fine and dandy with the brainless, belligerent, mouth-breathers that put them back in power after regularly-scheduled four-year hiatuses/
Chris Condon
June 8th, 2011 at 1:13 am
The evidence that Osama bin Laden was behind the September 11 attacks is weak. There are just too many unanswered questions concerning the official version of September 11. As for the recent raid in Pakistan, my understanding is that bin Laden died quite some years earlier. Just who was killed in the recent raid, or whether anyone was killed at all, remains a mystery.
JoaoAlfaiate
June 8th, 2011 at 5:08 am
I think Raimondo is over testifying on Ron Paul's behalf. When Obama suggested that the 1967 line ought to serve as the basis for a Middle East settlement the President was immediately attacked by Paul who called Israel "a good friend" and said that the US should not dictate to Israel. Spin it anyway you want, but speaking out in favor of the 1967 line is not intervention like bombing Libya or invading Iraq. Has the 75 year old Paul missed the difference? Non-interventionism in the face of injustice does not equal silence.
John V. Walsh
June 8th, 2011 at 5:31 am
Joao's statement is a perfect statement of "humanitarian imperialism," which led us into Libya and justified our continuing occupation of Iraq. As for Palestine there would be no injustice if the US simply stopped supporting Israel. That is, non-intervention would bring justice.
Jon V. Walsh
RonJ
June 8th, 2011 at 5:56 am
Political issues are hardly ever simple, and those issues in foreign countries are nearly impenetrable. We (I include myself) may believe that the Palestinians have gotten a raw deal and that Israel has committed serious transgressions, but it would be the height of folly to believe we can understand ALL the issues involved and cobble together a solution for them. THEY must hammer out a workable solution. It may or may not mean respecting the 1967 borders. It may or may not mean a 2 state solution. Pres. Obama would have done best to leave the problems in the Middle East to the residents of the Middle East.
Stop funding Israel and the Palestinians. Let them figure it out.
Hexexis
June 8th, 2011 at 7:58 am
Sorry, but the "anti-gov." movers & shakers don't look or sound "pro-freedom" to me. That includes Rep. Paul. Unless "freedom" these days extends only as far as getting in digs about the President.
Mark
June 8th, 2011 at 8:06 am
Those who actually believe that bin laden was killed in that raid are hopelessly naive.
I have a very difficult time believing that Justin does not know better.
And I'm terribly disappointed in him for perpetuating this lie.
Geo1671
June 8th, 2011 at 8:31 am
"The Mafia, too, was a terrorist organization, one that, at the height of its power, killed a great many people on American soil – and yet we didn’t have to invade Italy to neutralize them"
Sorry Just'in but you got it mostly all wrong about Italy running Mafia–they were hired thugs
Check the records List of Jewish American mobsters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Ameri…
P.S. Bugsy Siegel was not Italian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF0P4IUn5_4
kev
June 8th, 2011 at 8:38 am
What Dr Paul is saying is that just like he doesnt want the govt to tell people what to do, he doesnt want America telling other countries what to do. Its not our place to dictate anything to Israel, just like its not our place to keep supplying them while they commit national suicide. What Israel does is Israels business, for good or ill.
Carpenter
June 8th, 2011 at 9:16 am
Once again I'm sorry.
I'm sorry that Hussein Obama is a Communist. I'm sorry that Obammunism is real and on the same level as Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism. I'm also sorry that Barrack Hussien Obama, the worst president in history will win re-election because of Libertarianism. All things happen for a reason and I believe that Obama is YOUR PUNISHMENT for YOUR SINS and idolatry. But what do you expect when you manufacture your own God (Ron Paul) out of nothing?
Carpenter
June 8th, 2011 at 9:17 am
I'm very very very sorry…
but I cannot vote for a Libertarian (or a Tea Person) because of the influences Ayn Randianism (which is extremely anti-christian) and because Ayn Rand's Philosophy is the foundation of the Satanic Bible written by Anton Levay.
I'm very very very very very sorry. I am sorry I cannot support your cause BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO GO TO HELL
so I'm just not going to vote for a decade (or two) or at least until this libertarianist movement dissapears again. And it will. 10 years from now the People of TEA will be just a bad memory
Richard
June 8th, 2011 at 9:54 am
it's too bad superstition won't be just a bad memory.
Mike
June 8th, 2011 at 9:58 am
This is a joke right?
And who says all libertarians follow Ayn Rand to the letter or at all?
Hec Jervae
June 8th, 2011 at 10:00 am
People who like Ron Paul for his truth-telling and courage, will probably like him even more for his statement about the Bin Laden hit ("absolutely unnecessary"). The political and media establishment would go apoplectic if polls showed Ron Paul in a position to win – as of now he's become a curiousity for them as one of the few (only?) federal politicans who foresaw the economic crisis, and because he has this band of loyal followers. Paul supporters get worked up when they see the MSM ignoring Paul, but is it because they are trying to hide him or because they know it would be so easy to take him down if he started to rise too much? As this campaign begins, the MSM have him as the king of heroin, hookers and, now, being soft on the Bin Laden bogey-man. Such minor issues as peace, freedom and prosperity don't figure into the equation when the MSM is questioning the guy who is best on all those issues.
Mike
June 8th, 2011 at 10:00 am
Who says Ron Paul is a god? No one I know waves incense in front of his image, neither do we worship the guy you idiot. It is IDEAS (do I need to repeat that word 2,3,4,5, or 6 times before you will understand it?) that have attracted a rapid following. If there was more than just one guy in Washington DC that held these beliefs so much emphasis would not be placed on Ron Paul.
BTW, I am sure hoping your two comments have been all in jest. If not, then you've got problems.
Bianca
June 8th, 2011 at 10:03 am
I would like to believe, I want to believe…. But I cannot. Before Obama campaign, I was determined not to vote. Determined to have a bumper sticker and button saying "I have NOT voted". But then came the siren song. The new candidate with the promise of change. Said all the right things, engaged the longing of young and old to see a real change at the top. Never, in the wildest imagination, did I see this coming. This complete dismissal of the electorate, this much arrogance. I see Ron Paul playing the same role for Republicans. There will be NO change, except FOR THE WORSE. Just check the Libertarian INTERNAL politics. In the name of "freedom", we are to loose PUBLIC accountability over schools, health care, police or fire. We are to turn this over the "private" sector, over which we have ZERO control. Good trick. Let corporations enslave us from craddle to grave, and the governance by the people will be dead at last. Will we withdraw the Empire? Who is the fool to believe that.
Carpenter
June 8th, 2011 at 10:16 am
Libertarianism is far too Anti-Christian for me. And there is nothing Christian about Libertarianism. Period!
Ayn Rand was probably the most widely known Anti-Christ-ian in the World (except for Anton Levay who used Ayn Rand's writing to author the Satanic Bible). Ron Paul is a LIBERTARIAN who named his son RAND.
The merging of Mormonism, Paganism, New Age and the so-called Christian Right (for Political purposes into a Tea Party) is so wierd, so bizarre, so heretical that I don't even want to comment on them!
Thats not to say that Obamunism is better. On the contrary. The Obamunites are the worst EVIL of the 3 that I have mentioned but Evil is still Evil and the lesser of 3 Evils is STILL EVIL. I cannot vote for Ron Paul because of Ayn Rand. No way!
Carpenter
June 8th, 2011 at 10:23 am
and I'd like to add that this is just ROSS PEROT all over again.
Obama will win again because you (the Paul supporters) have made it impossible for people like me to vote. I could vote for a Republican who is a Christian (or at least appears to be one).
If 1% of the Right stays home in one key county in one key state Obama wins! Don't you rember Gore Bush in 2000? But in 2012 we will see a 10 – 15% loss of votes from traditional Christian voters because they CANNOT vote for Tea People or Libertarians. This next election will be a total wipeout. Obama will win by a major landslide because of Ron Paul.
RickR30
June 8th, 2011 at 10:47 am
So you voted for GW Bush?
RickR30
June 8th, 2011 at 10:52 am
So what political philosophy is christian? Whichever picks a "christian" candidate, like Clinton and Bush?
Carpenter
June 8th, 2011 at 11:28 am
So what political philosophy is christian?
What? Christianity is NOT a "political" philosophy. Its the truth.
And you might not like him but George Bush is a Christian.
Bill Clinton is probably NOT a Christian. Slick Willy certainly did not behave like one.
On the other hand Ayn Rand was HOSTILE to Christianity. Basically she was a servant of Satan and she was proud to be of the devil. The next election has been POISONED by Ayn Rand.
JoaoAlfaiate
June 8th, 2011 at 11:31 am
And a small child should find a way to work things out with his molester.
Carpenter
June 8th, 2011 at 11:43 am
The ancient Israelites' (or in todays terms you ron paul guys) wanted a KING to be their SALVATION. They worshipped false Idols ($$, crops, sex, people, ect..). They turned their back on Gods Laws (10 commandments) and God gave then over to their DEPRAVITY. They abandoned God and so God abandoned them right back.
The bottom line is that the RonPaul/Tea People are a PUNISHMENT for an idolatrous sinful nation just as much as the Obama is a PUNISHMENT. You are all (left and right) punishing each other as you LEAD each other of the cliff into the pit.
Basically you guys deserve to be Obammunted. Obama is YOUR punishment not mine.
Politics CAN'T save America. Only God c an do that.
JoaoAlfaiate
June 8th, 2011 at 11:49 am
Plse read my comment again.
Erica Brigid
June 8th, 2011 at 11:54 am
"The raid was indeed carried out with the cooperation of Pakistan"
And the SEALS left behind a helicopter full of classified goodies in appeasement.
The Octagon
June 8th, 2011 at 11:56 am
Bad theology. Bad logic. Bad comment.
guest
June 8th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
I would not have had any problem with Paul's statement if he hadn't included the "Israel is our friend" bit. Israel as a political entity is NOT our "friend" by any reasonable standard and Paul knows this. The U.S.S. Liberty, Jonathan Pollard(the israelis are still trying to get him pardoned), the hundreds of Israeli spies found in the U.S. after 9/11, the Lavon Affair, selling our military technology to China, AIPAC and countless other things prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's like even Mr. Paul knows there's a line he cannot cross when it comes to criticizing israel, but for heaven's sake you don't have to parrot the lie that their our "friend" to score political points.
guest
June 8th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
Personally, I don't agree that it's wrong to speak out against Israel based on moral grounds, especially since they are our "ally", but I could have at least respected Ron Paul for being ideologically consistent if he hadn't white-washed Israel's transgressions not only against the palestinians but against US by calling them "our friends".
The Octagon
June 8th, 2011 at 12:21 pm
I think you need to research libertarianism a bit more. And as a Christian myself, I'd like you to go ahead and stop making us all look bad.
guest
June 8th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
You need to take off your "Christian"-tinted glasses thru which you look at everything in the world and see things as they really are.
Carpenter
June 8th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
I have researched Libertarianism for many years and it is Pro-Homosexual, Pro-Abortion and Pro-Drugs. That is a fact.
Now to this phony BIG 'L' LIBERTARIAN / little 'l' libertarian excuse that many use to hide the fact that they are full blown Libertarians.
Well thats no different than being a little 'n' nambla member.
You are either a NAMBLA member or your not.
If you support Ron Paul you are a LIB ER TARIAN (Big L) all the way
guest
June 8th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
"Bill Clinton is probably NOT a Christian. Slick Willy certainly did not behave like one."
If George W Bush's behavior is considered Christian-like, then I am highly afraid of Christians. I would even consider them possible devil-worshippers.
RickR30
June 8th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Got it. You're just messing with us.
Carpenter
June 8th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
actually the American-ist version of Christianity is the whole problem!
Its not even Christian. Ok its 'barely' Christian.
You see I am talking about the Gospel that Jesus Christ taught
not the Gospel of Jezus Cash, Glenn Beck or Libertarianism where the Founders are Holy and the US Constitution is a Holy Document.
The Founders were Deists!
They were not Christians
Politics can't save America
Ron Paul can't save America
Carpenter
June 8th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
and P.S.
I don't smoke pot
I have never worn a Military uniform
and I have never killed anyone
yet…
Jamie N
June 8th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
Carpenter may be a nice guy but his logic seems messed up.A real christian nows the bible says GOD puts the people he wants in charge Charpenter is trying to ruin the best chance his country has.He must think killing poor people is better also most of the government is so called christians but they lie to get votes.I can't say 100 persent Ron Paul will not work for the same scum Bush,Obama and the other evil presidents have but if you look at his recored it seems he don't change his views in how long since the begining.We are not GOD we can't see whats in Rons mind but he seems much better than anyone since JFK but how nows look at Obama.Ron Paul belives in free choice and thats what GOD gave us as humans so Ron is not going against GOD from what I see.Looks like you don't place your vote on character just on weather someone say's they are christian.We will never get a Jesus untill he returns so in the end make the best choice GOD desides anyway right.
Jamie N
June 8th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
Charpenter no one I have seen worships Ron Paul they just agree with his ideas.No disrespect just saying things the way most people against the illegal wars band murder would Ron only says he would legalize drugs because he belives there would be less violence if people were not stealing and killing for them nothing else has worked and it stoped the violence after alcohol was legalized ecept for the people that get drunk and violent but people would get the drugs guns and alcohol even if it was illegal like now.It's called freedom if you go down the wrong road you suffer not other people.Should the CIA just keep bringing it in and making money off putting people in jail for something they holesale.Just looking at the big picture but you have the FREEDOM to make your own choice thats the point.GOD bless.
Carpenter
June 8th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
Jamie
The kind of FREEDOM that Ron Paul (and all Libertarians) propose is
the same Freedom that was proposed to Eve in the Garden of Eden.
Don't you get it yet? The 'First Libertarian' was SATAN.
That why most Atheists and Satanists are politically Libertarian.
johnc
June 8th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
Chalk it up to 2 1/2 years of O, eight years of W, and eight years of Clinton. I really don't give a damn who "our" president is. The same things that makes Paul so congenial to peons with brain cells is what makes him a non starter. Take the war on drugs, stupid and counter-productive as everybody knows, let's abolish it. Will that be cool with the Oliver Norths of this world who are used to those ungodly profit margins? No, so I don't think it will happen. Don't get me wrong, I love Ron. I'm just not the voting kind.
Jamie N
June 8th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
Carpenter even the former angels incuding satan GOD gave freedom it's when you take advantage of GODs gift that he obviously wants every one to have you will be punished thats if you don't repent and mean it because GOD nows the difference.If we were not supposed to have freedom after the angels rebeled and got thrown out of heaven and became demons God would have taken freedom away but we get a choice.No ones perfect except GOD but I agree most people are not GOD fearing and on day will awnser to it but mistakes are made it's human nature.We just have to pray that we get help making the right choice.But when it comes to politics church and state are seperated.In a perfect world it wouldent be but a good president has to make dessisions that sometimes cost lives.But I don't know how long but if you are not willing to die or send your children to war you shouldent send others to suffer and the presidents that do are as evil as a human can get.Martin Luther King said if you have nothing you are willing to die for you don't deserve to live.War should be last resort life or death anything less is not acceptable.PEACE.
Jamie N
June 8th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
Sorry this is about Ron Paul and he is Americas best choice and brave because the scum in the government will probably try to kill him if they think he will win and if he does he needs more protection than other presidents.JFK should have been protected better because it was the people he was supposed to be able to trust that killed him or were a party to it.So if Ron is the man I think he is he better make certain he is well protected.Ron Paul can't make all things right only GOD could but he can start the prosses if given the chance and is true to what he says unlike Bush SR,Clinton,Bush JR and now Obama that is only a good tal;ker but we all see through him and he will be in the history books like the rest scum.If the history is accurate unlike most western media.Of all the people murderd throughout history we only here about the one time shoved down are throat when there were much worse murders throughout history that I guess were less imporant like thje Native Americans and many many others.God created us equally and the people that think otherwise will anwser for it and that may be one of the biggest mistakes in GODs eyes.
Jamie N
June 8th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
I meant to say unlike most history in the western world.And probably others because the winners of war write the history that makes them look good.
camus10
June 8th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
Liberatarians have to mature their principle and speak up
Are you able to speak up for US principle and appeal to the larger public against injustice, and to confess to our complicity. If you cant-dont, then you will forever be chasing the ugly repuglicans and we will continue our spiral down the toilet
Basing a platform on self-controlling commerce (abolish medicare for what….is your proposal) and anti-interventionism without dirtying your hands in the malice of so many crippling injustices is NOT mature enough to take leadership
camus10
June 8th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
well noted Mark. Psy op people. There are other libertarians who are ready to come clean on 911 and ridding the republic from the levi straussian ilk
What to say now!!!
June 8th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
Now is the time for LIBYA, pressure about LIBYA. The biggest warmonger (Senate vote: Kerry, Lieberman, Graham are trying to give Obama a free pass. The news articles (Forbes, Saint Petersburgh TImes) on Libya , people are not even bothering to register and comment against this unconstitutional usurpation of power. Let yourself be heard or expect more of these money draining abuses.
Ron Paul vs. the GOP Establishment - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
June 8th, 2011 at 9:48 pm
[...] given him the kind of authority he never enjoyed in all the years spent crying in the wilderness. Ron Paul vs. the GOP Establishment by Justin Raimondo — Antiwar.com __________________ "A person with a new idea is a crank until the idea succeeds." – [...]
Jilly4Liberty
June 8th, 2011 at 10:11 pm
Ron Paul wasn't born. He liberated himself from the womb
While not a proctologist, Dr. Ron Paul will save this country's ass.
Ron Paul let the dogs out. They were being held without due process.
Jilly4Liberty
June 8th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
Ron Paul doesn't listen to music, he listens to the call of freedom.
Apathy is Ron Paul's bitch.
Waldo called. He promises to come out of hiding if Ron Paul is elected president.
I just saved a bunch of money by switching to Ron Paul.
Ron Paul has no alarm clock, but instead wakes every morning to the call of freedom.
Ron Paul doesn't go the gym. He stays fit by exercising his civil rights.
Ron Paul delivers babies without his hands. He simply reads them the
Bill of Rights and they crawl out in anticipation of freedom.
Ron Paul doesn't cut taxes. He kills them with his bare hands.
Jilly4Liberty
June 8th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
Ron Paul can recite pi to 1776 decimal places.
When applied directly to the brain, Ron Paul instantly cures socialism.
Ron Paul doesn't act like a patriot, a patriot acts like Ron Paul.
Jilly4Liberty
June 8th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
The chief export of Ron Paul is liberty.
If guts could fight, they would fight their Ron Paul out.
Ron Paul is so fast he can steal home plate, but his conscious won't let him do it
Ron Paul is an anagram for Our Plan.
Ron Paul uses the Libery Bell as an alarm clock.
Chuck Norris has a list of 5 people not to mess with. Ron Paul is all of them.
Ron Paul is not watching you.
Ron Paul doesn't write books. The words assemble together because it is in their economic interest to do so.
Ron Paul is the only political virgin in the U.S. Congress; he's never screwed America.
As a child, Ron Paul did not collect baseball cards. He collected Amendments.
Joe
June 9th, 2011 at 5:40 am
It scares AIPEC most
Learning
June 9th, 2011 at 5:42 am
I realize that I am late to this thread. But who does the influx of Randians into the freedom movement concern people. They do not sound at bottom antiwar to me.
Hec Jervae
June 9th, 2011 at 8:50 am
It seems that the most rabid Ron Paul haters not only hate Ron Paul, but hate the fact that others like him. They are then driven to make stuff up about Ron Paul – such is the quality of the enemy of Rep. Paul. Good Christians all, no doubt.
Carpenter
June 9th, 2011 at 9:42 am
No! No! No! You've got me all wrong. I am a changed man.
If Ron Paul can convince millions that a non-existant PLOT to turn America into a NorthAmerican Union really exists (even though it doesn't) then he has got my vote. Anyone that can make a good case for stopping GW Bush's evil plot (even though it never existed) to build Concentration Camps (that never existed) all across America is my kinda guy!
And then theres that old standby Libertarian 'FACT' about the Bush Family putting Hitler into power. But that works perfectly for my new best friend Ron Paul who said that GW Bush has the "powers of Adolf Hitler".
Never mind that all of these conspriracies are based on lies! I don't care about that anymore. Its the Propaganda Stupid! Anyone who can lie like that and still be electable has got my vote!
Tom L
June 9th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
It's posts like these that reinforces the quote that 'hell is other people.'
I respect your faith, but wow.
Ta,
Tom L
June 9th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
So, b/c Ayn Rand hated Christianity and some libertiarians agree with her either in whole or in part you cannot vote for a libertarian?
Lew Rockwell is a Catholic and as prominent a libertarian as there is… He also isn't a big fan of Rand's. How do you rectify that? Rand wasn't a libertarian by any reasonable stretch of the definition. Rothbard was a Jew, as was Mises. Now what do you do? Do not conflate the ideas or the philosophy with the people who interpret it. You see, in my mind that also extends to Christianity.
Moreover, if your interpretation of the word of god is so unforgiving are you sure he's a god worth worshiping if he would damn you for all eternity for voting?
Again, your faith is yours but from this perspective it seems a little perverse.
Ta,
Advocate4Liberty
June 9th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
That's the point, JoaoAlfaiate – we stop GIVING Israel those weapons. If the American taxpayer was no longer subsidizing $3 billion +/year of the Israeli terrorist machine, Israel wouldn't survive a year. Which would be just fine.
But Dr. Paul is absolutely RIGHT – we have no more business dictating to the psychopaths in Israel than we do to Iraq or Afghanistan.
Get it through your head – IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. At least as far as coercing tax dollars to pay for your particular pet project.
If YOU want to sign up, travel to Palestine, and help destroy Israel, you should be able to do that – on your own dime. Hell, if I were 30 years younger and single, I might even join you.
Do yourself a favor: if you REALLY want to understand Ron Paul's (and my) positions – read Murray Rothbard's "For a New Liberty". It concise, it's logical, and it's irrefutable.
Advocate4Liberty
June 9th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
Anything else would have been instant political suicide – every mainstream rag would have been slinging charges of "anti-Semitism" even though the bulk of the Jews in Israel aren't even Semitic – unlike their Palestinian victims.
Money and a stranglehold on the State – that's how the Zionists operate.
So I'll call them my brothers if I have to: remember the story of Caine and Abel?
Four Arrows
June 9th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
I agree with many of Ron Paul's statements and ideas, including the one about the supposed assassination of bin Laden. Still, his voting record is the most "conservative" in congress, so many of his astute anti-war, anti-aggression positions are neutralized by giving the neo-cons ammunition for their agendas, whether Paul specifically likes them or not. If he maintains a "libertarian" label, rather than an independent one, he, like his son Rand Paul, will still wind up promoting the illusions of free market in ways that the neo-cons and neo-libs will use as dance music on their way to the bank and a continued division between halves and have nots and rule of corporations will have been paved inadvertantly perhaps by his otherwise reasonable perspectives.
For more on my own ideas about libertarianism as I use my Indigenous worldview to understand the ideas of Dr. Walter Block, see our co-authored book, Differing Worldviews: Two Disagreeing Scholars Argue Cooperatively
Four Arrows
Carpenter
June 9th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Ron Paul doesn't deserve the Republican nomination and as far as I am concerned he should THROWN OUT of the Republican Party because he is NOT a Republican. He is a LIBERTARIAN not a Republican. Ron Paul and his fans are the Real Rinos! They are NOT Republicans.
But I do think it would be kinda funny to see Obama slaughter him in the biggest Landslide in History so go for it…..
Robert Brager
June 9th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
Why are you here?
Rexblade
June 10th, 2011 at 1:27 am
Paul was very vocal during cast lead. On this issue he was being tactful and smart to do so. Israel doesn't want to make decisions on her own. By dragging us into all its one sided quarrels we are complicit in the eyes of the world. So they can do whatever they want knowing we will kill or supply them to do it. If we were not involved Israel would have to learn to how to play nice with other countries and Palestinians in Israel or face the demise every oppressive regime should face….
http://www.adc.org/luntzwexneranalysis.pdf check this link out.
Rexblade
June 10th, 2011 at 1:35 am
Um lol Ayn Rand is dead………. How can you be a "perfect christian" when every other statement is pure intolerance and willful ignorance? Sorry man your Evil.
Rexblade
June 10th, 2011 at 1:51 am
So who do we vote for oh wise one? The rest of em are exactly the same. Whats Obama done policy wise thats sooooo different from Bush?
Carpenter
June 10th, 2011 at 7:53 am
Why? Because the REAL RINOS are the ones that go around calling everyone RINOS! Thats why.
Libertarians are NOT Republicans. In fact they HATE Republicans. They always have HATED the entire Republican Party. They hated Ronald Reagan, George Herbert Walker Bush and George W. Bush. Basically the Libertarians HATE everyone (especially Christians) because Libertarianism is a Luciferian religion based on politics. Libertarians are RINOS!
I hope that the Republicans finally establish a system by which to PURGE the Republican Party of any traces of Libertarian-ist AynRand-ist RonPaulism after the coming Obama Landslide.
Ross Perot (and his Libertarian Freak Mob) are responsible for the Bill Clinton years you will all be responsible for the entire Age of Obama and the disaster it brought. I hope you are all proud of what your Libertarian MOB (and your Ross Perot predecessors) has done. And if your not don't worry because Satan is very proud of what you have done.
camus10
June 10th, 2011 at 7:10 pm
sure there are problems here, but on a positive note conservative voters have only libertarians to thank for a positive direction.
Some of us just think, the message and policy need to be inclusive and requires some modernistic fine tuning
Al_Dove
June 11th, 2011 at 1:40 am
If you vote for a murdering War Monger, then YOU are a murdering War Monger.