David Frum and the Winds of War
Shocker: noted neocon makes the case for invading Pakistan
It may be unseemly for a pundit to highlight his own predictive powers, especially in the first sentence of a column, but propriety has never been much of a constraining factor for me, so here goes:
No sooner had I written that the High Mucka-Mucks of the “Kochtopus” would jump on the bandwagon of the Gary Johnson campaign, then there was David Boaz, looking particularly smug, singing Johnson’s praises (and making catty remarks about Ron Paul’s age) on Judge Andrew Napolitano’s Freedom Watch less than twenty-four hours later.
Okay, so you don’t have to
be Nostradamus reincarnated to have imagined the oily evasive Boaz would
sidle up to the oily evasive Johnson: like attracts like and all that.
But how about my prediction that the neocons
War Party, bored with Afghanistan and eager to find fresh killing fields,
would soon be focusing on Pakistan as the New Enemy in our eternal “war
on terrorism”?
No sooner had my last column been posted, then CNN posted David Frum’s latest screed, in which the former speechwriter for George W. Bush asked: “Has our mission in Afghanistan become obsolete?”
Frum, who authored the “axis of evil” phraseology that set the tone for the Bush presidency, isn’t having second thoughts about the interventionist foreign policy he’s always championed: no, he’s just wondering if, as he puts it, “The world’s most important terrorist safe haven is visibly not Afghanistan, but instead next-door Pakistan.”
According to Frum, “Because the U.S. presence in Afghanistan requires cooperation from Pakistan, the Afghanistan mission perversely inhibits the United States from taking more decisive action against Pakistan’s harboring of terrorism.” The US has got it “upside down,” he says: Pakistan is the real Enemy. He then goes into a laundry list of aggressive actions he would like us to engage in, including US military action to “disable” Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal.
This last is particularly crazy, even for a dyed-in-the-wool neocon like Frum: does this born again “moderate” Republican really want to start a war – bound to go nuclear – with Pakistan? He just can’t understand why the Obama administration doesn’t do its duty and risk turning Central Asia into a radioactive wasteland:
“Instead, even now – even now! – we’re told that Pakistan is just too important to permit the U.S. to act on its stated doctrine – articulated by George W. Bush’s administration and not repudiated by Obama’s: ‘Those who harbor terrorists will be treated as terrorists themselves.’ So long as we remain in Afghanistan, that statement remains true. The question is, shouldn’t we be taking now the steps to render the statement less true?"
“The less committed we are to Afghanistan, the more independent we are of Pakistan. The more independent we are of Pakistan, the more leverage we have over Pakistan. The more leverage we have over Pakistan, the more clout we have to shut down Pakistan’s long, vicious, and now not credibly deniable state support for terrorism.”
What’s not credible is an assertion – that the Pakistani authorities sheltered and collaborated with bin Laden – offered without evidence. This many of us learned in the run up to the invasion of Iraq (alas, some only in retrospect). However, neocons don’t need evidence: indeed, they disdain it, and Frum offers none to back up his rationale for war. We are simply supposed to accept that, because bin Laden was found in Abbottabad – described in the American media as a “garrison city” supposedly impregnable to infiltration – the Pakistani authorities must have known his whereabouts.
The details of “Operation Geronimo” underscore why this is nonsense: after all, the US succeeded in setting up a clandestine “safe house” in Abbottabad not far from bin Laden’s lair. If the CIA could do it, why not al-Qaeda – which, after all, has shown itself to be at least the equal of our spooks when it comes to pulling off clandestine operations? I’m assuming the safe house was unknown to the Pakistanis, but, on second thought, maybe not …
The President has told us that no one outside a very small circle in the White House and the Pentagon had prior knowledge of bin Laden’s takedown, and absent any evidence to the contrary, we have to take him at his word. On the other hand, there is some circumstantial evidence the Pakistanis might have seen this coming, because, as the Guardian reports:
“The US and Pakistan struck a secret deal almost a decade ago permitting a US operation against Osama bin Laden on Pakistani soil similar to last week’s raid that killed the al-Qaeda leader, the Guardian has learned. The deal was struck between the military leader General Pervez Musharraf and President George Bush after Bin Laden escaped US forces in the mountains of Tora Bora in late 2001, according to serving and retired Pakistani and US officials. Under its terms, Pakistan would allow US forces to conduct a unilateral raid inside Pakistan in search of Bin Laden, his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and the al-Qaeda No3. Afterwards, both sides agreed, Pakistan would vociferously protest the incursion.”
The Guardian goes on to cite “a former senior administration official,” who tells us:
“’There was an agreement between Bush and Musharraf that if we knew where Osama was, we were going to come and get him,” said a former senior US official with knowledge of counterterrorism operations. ‘The Pakistanis would put up a hue and cry, but they wouldn’t stop us.’”
If, as Frum claims, the Pakistanis are a “state sponsor of terrorism” fronting for al-Qaeda, then why would they make this agreement – which was renewed by the post-Musharraf government?
Indeed, Islamabad is making plenty of noise about the raid, but this is just for public consumption in Pakistan: the agreed-upon scenario is playing itself out according to plan.
While Frum was a mere White House speechwriter in the Bush years, in no position to be in on the administration’s secret pacts, he could conceivably have learned of the pact in leak-prone Washington, where the neocons had no compunctions about divulging secrets if it served their political ends. I wouldn’t be too surprised if Frum knew about this all along, and is taking the opportunity to target Pakistan anyway, secure in the knowledge that Islamabad could never acknowledge their agreement with Washington. He’s that kind of person.
Aside from that, however, the secret agreement certainly undermines the whole premise of Frum’s argument that Pakistan is now the main enemy of the United States. The outrageousness of this line of argument is apparent when we note that Pakistan has captured far more top al-Qaeda operatives than the intelligence services of the US and all other Western nations combined.
Under General Pervez Musharraf, and continuing under the present government, the Pakistanis have been doing our dirty work in the region ever since 9/11. They have faithfully executed policies dictated to them by Washington – albeit often a little resentful at being required to do most of the heavy lifting – and how are they being rewarded? With slander, not only from the politically irrelevant Frum, but out of the mouths of anonymous administration officials who whisper their calumnies in the dark.
If you’re the leader of a country that has been a good and faithful ally of the US, the lesson to be learned from all this is clear: watch your back. Hosni Mubarak learned this too late, as did Manuel Noriega and Ngo Dinh Diem.
Now that bin Laden is dead, and the vast intelligence cache scooped up by the raiders effectively dismantles al-Qaeda as an effective international fighting force, the US government is desperately scrambling to find a replacement – a new bogeyman who will scare the American people into going along with the War Party’s plans.
Frum is not alone in nominating Pakistan for the job: the Obama-ites and the liberal “mainstream” are divided between those who say, sure, the Pakistanis are a bunch of treacherous towel-heads, but we can’t afford to nuke them just yet, and those who want to go after them in some way. Which way it will go remains to be seen: however, that David Frum is among the first to call for Pakistani blood is hardly surprising. The man is a veritable weather vane riding the winds of war, picking up the slightest breeze blowing in the direction of a potential battlefield.
Like vultures circling road-kill, the neocons’ mere presence in the vicinity is enough to tell us where the next carnage will occur. You don’t need to be a prophet to find these things out: you just have to know how to read the signs.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- BS in Baghdad – May 24th, 2012
- Interventionism and the Elites – May 22nd, 2012
- Obama or Anarchy? – May 20th, 2012
- What Does Ron Paul Want? – May 17th, 2012
- Hillary’s Terrorists – May 15th, 2012





JLS
May 10th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
Good article Justin! The first thing I thought when I heard Osama had been killed was, I wonder who the US government will come up with to replace him?
paul
May 10th, 2011 at 9:11 pm
You say …
"The President has told us that no one outside a very small circle in the White House and the Pentagon had prior knowledge of bin Laden’s takedown, and absent any evidence to the contrary, we have to take him at his word."
… Really? Why would you EVER take him at his word?
Johnny in Wi.
May 10th, 2011 at 9:41 pm
The neo-cons want only Israel to have atomic weapons, no Muslims allowed. This dream of disarming Pakistan has always been there ever since it came out that Pakistan had the bomb. The israeli's have been getting cozy with India for that reason. They sure have their fingers in a lot of pies these neo-cons. Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Sudan, Somalia, Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, anywhere anytime dear little Israel may be threatened. They want us involved in all these countries, no matter how broke we are.
skulz fontaine
May 10th, 2011 at 9:42 pm
Hmmm, so many problematic themes here. A)- Usama bin Ladin dead. Really? Besides the numerous contentions and obituaries that bin Ladin's been dead since at least late 2001, well, America has only the word of Obama that bin Ladin was cacked. With the body of evidence summarily dumped into the Indian Ocean. Problematic? Oh yeah.
B)- David Frum is about as prostitutional as it gets. Frum would sell his mommy 'if the price is right' and that goes without saying.
C)- Pakistan IS a nuclear weaponized nation/state and either way one might care to slice Pakistan's allegiances, Pakistan would/will use those nukes IF Pakistan feels itself threatened beyond any manner of diplomatic nicety. Do "we" test the premise? I'm thinking that might not be such a grand idea. And lastly…
D)- might Navy Seal Team 6 be up to the task of de-nuking the Pakistanis? I'm willing to bet, they would not have a snow ball's chance in hell.
David Frum and the winds of utter mindless bulls*#t.
A grateful reader
May 10th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
Emigrate to Israel Frum. Please leave us goodnatured Americans alone.
Oswaldwasalefty
May 10th, 2011 at 10:23 pm
Of course, the War Party has to find new enemies now that Saddam and Osama are gone. So not surprisingly auditions are being held for the role of the replacement of Osama and al-Queda as Public Enemy Number One. Of course, this is a role no country wants because there is no enjoyment to be had as a punching bag for the U.S.
Ira7Epstein
May 10th, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Was OBL really killed by Navy SEALS, or was it an inside job to engineer more wars of aggression in the Middle East? Some very good questions have been raised about the alleged snuff job done on OBL, Why was OBL buried at sea? What is with the changing story regarding the hit against him? First he was armed, Then he was unarmed. First, he was using one of his wives as a human shield. Then he was not using one of his wives as a human shield. The government's story has changed so many times it makes my head spin.
I think the USG is lying about the hit done on OBL. They lied about WMD in Iraq, They lied about what happened in the Gulf of Tonkin. They told these lies because they wanted war. They are telling lies about the hit done on OBL because they want war. That treasure trove of 'intelligence ' allegedly recovered in the compound of OBL would be the perfect vehicle to manufacture lies that would justify any war the USG might want to fight. The people of Pakistan could very well be the first victims of the OBL scam.
Bodkin
May 11th, 2011 at 12:36 am
Bernard Henri Levy…Jennifer Rubin…David Frum…
"Like vultures circling road-kill"
Raimondo must be referring to himself, as he sits perched above his next victim, whose identity might very well be extrapolated from the established pattern.
Apparently, one is not allowed to discuss a controversial view on foreign policy without getting the vulture treatment.
David Grayling
May 11th, 2011 at 12:58 am
China or Pakistan will become the next punching bag.
America needs a bogeyman to keep the world in a perpetual state of fear and to give it a reason to invade and occupy nations with scarce resources!
America is a predator nation!
Wolfgang9
May 11th, 2011 at 3:12 am
I consider People who practice hate speech like D Frum as "terrorists" too.
Maybe we should eliminate them too? Its all just how we define "terrorism".
W9
Wolfgang9
May 11th, 2011 at 3:13 am
I havent seen a politician yet who was not lying,
W9
AngelaKeaton
May 11th, 2011 at 4:25 am
Justin,
Yes, David Boaz makes thoughtless comments. Who doesn't? Yes, we got it — Gary Johnson is not an intellectual. One must object to using them as the opening act for a deviant like David Frum.
Frum is exactly the sort to whom Arthur Silber is referring in "A Nation Led by Blood-Guzzling, Flesh-Eating Pigf-ckers." Not only is it indisputable that this man is partially responsible for deaths of thousands of civilians but he dared to be so bold as to castigate anyone who objected to this madness as a "racist."
He's human garbage wrapped in skin.
geo1671
May 11th, 2011 at 4:44 am
Psssst! Just'in missed out,can you guess who? "If you’re the leader of a country that has been a good and faithful ally of the US, the lesson to be learned from all this is clear: watch your back. Hosni Mubarak learned this too late, as did Manuel Noriega and Ngo Dinh Diem"
USA's Saddam Hussein and a host of other stoooges..
PSSSSSST! Ooops! Forgot–Osama Bin Had— How about Hitler ? http://www.videonewslive.com/view/113307/saddam_h…
What's with the Bogus term neo Conservatives? Is the term Israel Firsters too offencive for Antiwar?
Brendon
May 11th, 2011 at 5:09 am
Great article Justin.
Further to your comments about the CIA setting up a safehouse nearby to Osama's: they have been monitoring that mansion's comings and goings and phone calls and have so far provided no proof any leading Pakistani was involved.
I also do not believe there was a socalled agreement between Bush and Musharraf.
Musharraf has dismissed it out of hand, so he has set himself up to be publicly ridiculed if he is lying. Also, it is just a bit too neat. And why would Obama settle on a verbal deal done 10 years ago by two players no longer in power and not bother to tell the current incumbents? Sounds like a tale made up on the spot.
Michael Kenny
May 11th, 2011 at 5:26 am
I've seen simlar arguments to Frum's from other neocons on other sites. My guess is that the neocons finally accept that Iraq and Afghanistan are unwinnable (ditto for Libya!), realise the consequences for the American Empire (and by extension, Israel), and are looking for a scapegoat. It's not that they got it wrong, it's just that those dastardly Pakis stabbed them in the back! What can you expect from Muslims, they argue, trying to squeeze a last bit of propaganda mileage out of the thing!
MvGuy
May 11th, 2011 at 5:42 am
Just tell them to send THEIR children as an ante….uuh….if it;s "worth it"
musings
May 11th, 2011 at 5:56 am
I don't care if Pakistan sheltered bin Laden in that crummy "mansion" (evoking Saddam's palaces and thus special honored treatment rather than house arrest). I don't care if they did the Mumbai hotels, which every Indian thinks they did. I don't care if the ISI murdered Daniel Pearl (because those were the last known people he talked with before being kidnapped). I don't care if they have, in short, their own rendition program for renegades and Mossad suspects. Because I imagine that all of that is a given, until proven otherwise. They killed Pinky Bhutto. The hanged her father. They are no good. And they are nuclear. But how is it in our interest to invade them? How is it in our interest to turn Americans into dead meat on the altar of what? Of course Pakistan is bad news, and has been for a long time. It will not change because more Americans die there.
MvGuy
May 11th, 2011 at 6:23 am
It is sooo difficult for me to feel pity for Pakistan.. Even when the blood, land and war lusting Neocons descend on them… Too bad WE can't get THEM to do the dirty werk … Just another cleptopia among many….but with nukes. and of course there is their location between the loot and the sea, between Iran and China, India……. Still the people there like ALL people dream of happiness and prosperity and not defense and hegemony…..It is the political class that pushes the acquisitive policies…. Still I remember my hash smuggling days there, especially in Karachi trying to find an honest man…… Nearly hopeless… Too much poverty… "Get the five Rupies NOW and eat" …..Forget the lahks that could have been…. And selling their OWN citizens to the foreign predator drones….. A nation of political prostitutes…?? No it's worse , they are pimping the execution of their own for lucre…and you gotta love how they stole the Baloch…. ah…well… got it transfered to THEM by a vasal uin contravention anything legal or just…
[Wiki: Pakistan signed a standstill agreement with the state of Kalat (a land-locked state surrounded by Pakistani territory and covering 23% of the territory of the current province of Balochistan) which recognized its autonomy and sovereignty, subject to future negotiation of the relationship.[3] However, both houses of the Kalat parliament had asserted independence in 1947 and the Khan subsequently acknowledged that he had no right to accede to Pakistan's demand for annexation which he said he had only done under the threat of military force.]
This combined with how they treat the Sikhs….. It is difficult to find anything worse on at least this planet….. except perhaps for…you know where, a low intensity genocide and forced expulsion of the natives there for a thousand years.. and they are armed with nukes too…. Illegal annexation and nukes seem to go hand and hand…
Terrance&Philip
May 11th, 2011 at 6:25 am
So, if a terrorist is found in one's town, state or country, one should assume it was with the complicity of the local authorities and, we should declare war on said jurisdiction?
Okay, then, since many of the perps who flew the planes into the WTC on 9/11 sojourned in FL, how soon before we begin fire-bombing Miami or Ft. Meyers?
Terrance&Philip
May 11th, 2011 at 6:29 am
And take Kristol, Perle, Wolfowitz, Krauthammer and the rest of the neo-con scum with you.
Terrance&Philip
May 11th, 2011 at 6:32 am
Never thought I'd say it but I'm starting to miss the old USSR. The "evil empire" forced our leaders to act with some humility and remain grounded in reality.
Wootie Berster
May 11th, 2011 at 6:43 am
That old madman LaRouche had an interesting and useful construct: "hysterical flight forward".. or what the military calls "forward retreat" (or something like that).. The logic of previous crimes makes it absolutely necessary to carry on ahead no matter what. Any devoted reader of crime novels knows what this is: fleeing the earlier crime incurs yet another.. and another.. and another. Until the Long Arm of the Law intervenes and stops the process. The problem for us is.. the Arm has been chopped off at the shoulder! The Republic is sundered. Law is no more!
@Cfountain72
May 11th, 2011 at 7:46 am
Thanks for beating up on Frum. It is scary that someone so hellbent on finding something—anything–to attack has so much visibility.
However, I take some issue with starting the piece with talk about Boaz and his comments about Ron Paul. I know there is some history behind this distrust of the Kochtopus. But with very few exceptions, Cato is an ally on the antiwar front (as well as civil liberties), probably the most consistent and most visible one in DC. Speaking as someone who donated to, and campaigned for RP, I found his comments to be fairly objective in nature. Indeed the RP treatment I've seen from Cato folks this go around has already been better than the sheer lack of it in the last cycle.
Folks like Chris Preble, Gene Healy, Ben Friedman, David Rittgers, Malou Innocent, etc., are almost always worth a read. If we're going to make any changes to DC's views on empire, 'defense' spending, wars, the Fed, etc., it will be with their help, not by nitpicking with them.
Peace be with you.
emsnews
May 11th, 2011 at 7:48 am
Where is the body? Where are the photos? Why did they suddenly change the story , 'We were watching the entire thing' to 'There is this 24 minute gap in the Watergate Tapes…' Oops, wrong set of lies.
emsnews
May 11th, 2011 at 7:49 am
You left out Libya! And of course, the US which is the Big Pie in the Sky for them.
emsnews
May 11th, 2011 at 7:50 am
And most of our Congress. And a lot of the media.
emsnews
May 11th, 2011 at 7:51 am
Using China as a punching bag is most dangerous. They hold the biggest FOREX dollar and US debt kitty on earth and can destroy our currency faster than the Federal Reserve can do this. :)
@Cfountain72
May 11th, 2011 at 7:52 am
Even worse….i think thy have deluded themselves and their readers into thinking we have somehow won in both those places, which then provides justification for even more interventions! Repeat after me: "The surge worked in Iraq and it is working in Afghanistan."
@Cfountain72
May 11th, 2011 at 8:05 am
'Neoconservative' is a more comprehensive term that applies to their general views on policies not directly related to Israel (e.g. 'national greatness', democracy promotion, 'defense' spending, etc.) Some/most of them may be 'Israel-firsters' but that seems too limiting (distracting?) when discussing these other topics.
Peace be with you.
Johnny in Wi.
May 11th, 2011 at 8:35 am
I also left out Tunisia, Yeman, Bahrain, and the other Gulf States. There are so many potential enemies of Israel it is hard to keep track.
Bodkin
May 11th, 2011 at 8:53 am
Be honest:
You don't really want to say "neo-con", do you?
emsnews
May 11th, 2011 at 9:56 am
Yes, and we both left out China, Russia, most of Africa, all of South and Central America and of course, good old Cuba!
These foaming at the mouth animals should be locked up, no? :)
emsnews
May 11th, 2011 at 9:58 am
Easy to fix: Zionist neoconservatives'. OK? :)
guest
May 11th, 2011 at 10:16 am
Frum and Krauthammer are Canadians!
AngelaKeaton
May 11th, 2011 at 11:26 am
How could you leave out Cato's Doug Bandow who not only wrote for Antiwar.com for several years but is a regular on Antiwar Radio?
Voices of vets like Christopher Preble are essential in confronting neo-conservatives who conspicuously lack military experience. Preble courageously took on murder enthusiasts like nationalist Bing West in front of thoroughly hostile audience at CPAC.
Would also add many others affiliated with Cato like Jim Powell and Leon Hadar. If these are the people who can reach moderate conservatives then we must see them as assets in the struggle for a more humble foreign policy. (Speaking of Koch "associated" writers, the antiwar credentials of Reason's managing editor Jesse Walker are above reproach.)
The greater libertarian movement has severe problems to be sure but we have a treasure chest of anti-intervention, anti-empire, pro-human rights experts from Tom Woods, Robert Higgs, Sheldon Richman, Jacob Hornberger, Kevin Carson, Arthur Silber, Anthony Gregory, "the voice of Randolph Bourne" Jeff Riggenbach, Bill Kauffman, Laurence M. Vance, and historian David Beito.
That's just what is on paper. Economist David R. Henderson doesn't merely write and teach but organizes antiwar vigils. Former Libertarian Party Vice Chair, R. Lee Wrights, a vet, has centered his entire 2012 grassroots campaign around the issue of war — all war.
There is no separating libertarianism from a commitment to peace. New Libertarian publishing house The Moorfield Storey institute is named for the president of the Anti-Imperialist League (and first president of the NAACP.)
We clearly have the tools to defeat violence. It's a plan of action we lack.
you guys are losers
May 11th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
"We clearly have the tools to defeat violence. It's a plan of action we lack."
libertarians are too crippled by libertarian dogma to face the truth, and truth would be the most potent tool in your toolbox…
you cant defeat the logic: peak oil, global warming, the threats they pose to israel and israeli america, but there's not room in the libertarian toolbox for peak oil and global warming.
another obsolete philsophy bites the dust.
andy
May 11th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
Well if a person is going to falsely be accused of bigotry, the kiss of death in the zeitgest of this day and age, people will have to use codewords wont they. Blame people like yourself for creating a climate of hysteria and intimidation.
andy
May 11th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
China can punch back.
Johnny in Wi.
May 11th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
We also forgot, Russia, Turkey, the Ukraine and most of Western Europe. The Samson Option's first target will be Rome according Dr. Martin Van Creweld. Then I would think, Munich, Berlin, Warsaw etc.
@Cfountain72
May 11th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
One at a time…how does 'peak oil' make libertarianism obsolete?
@Cfountain72
May 11th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
"Voices of vets like Christopher Preble are essential in confronting neo-conservatives who conspicuously lack military experience. Preble courageously took on murder enthusiasts like nationalist Bing West in front of thoroughly hostile audience at CPAC."
I missed that. Is there any video/audio of this?! Chris usually manages to make his case, yet manages to do it in a very non-confrontational way.
you guys are losers
May 11th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
libertarians wont admit that peak oil was the most likely immediate motive for the 9/11 false flag… simply because, according to libertarian dogma, peak oil is not a problem.
peak oil isnt a problem because the free enterprise system will find a replacement for oil before oil shortages become a problem.
global warming isnt a problem, either, i guess, even though israelis apparently believe in both global warming and peak oil… israel must be secured from sea level rise before its american protection runs out of gas…
…which might explain why israel has abandoned the low ground in gaza, turning gaza into a bombing and artillery range, while they continue to grab high ground in the west bank.
@Cfountain72
May 11th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
oooohhh…9/11 false flag.
Thanks, that explains a lot.
you guys are losers
May 11th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
of course, the logic of peak oil as motive for 9/11 throws another monkey wrench into to the libertarian machinery, doesnt it?
we most certainly dont want anyone to connect the dots; exxon's alliance with the AEI neocons in denying global warming, the AEI/PNAC neocons' admission that they needed a new pearl harbor just before they got into position to make their new pearl harbor happen, and the war on terror's concentration of effort in oily places and pipeline and tanker routes.
Sam
May 11th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
World war III would be a very bad idea.
Terrance&Philip
May 11th, 2011 at 1:53 pm
Sending someone else's sons and daughters to die in wars they help instigate is SOP for neo-cons. Breezily advocating the wholesale slaughter or displacement of innocent civilians, all in the name of doing "good" is also a SOP of the neo-cons.
AngelaKeaton
May 11th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
Ping me at akeaton@antiwar.com. It's convoluted since CPAC/ACU requires passwords to look at the videos but I will find it. It's a brilliant take down of US foreign policy in Afghanistan.
AngelaKeaton
May 11th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
YGAL, found your anti-Semitic comments on another thread. Take it to Stormfront because you are out of here.
gary
May 11th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
we don't need friends we need enemies..got to keep our military busy…poor young saps….when will these kids learn that naivity and patriotism are manipulated by cynical old men to get them to kill and be killed
avatar singh
May 11th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
It is english first rather israle first which have hijacked american economic anf foreing plocies.
very true -in fact so called jewsih lobby" power is a propaganda done by the english race to hide thier nefarious iterference in the american ploicy to uinflunce american domestic and foreing policy for the benefit of england.
1999.
how england has used jews for the benfit of english race only and for deliberatily creating disruption in Europe.
England had threatened israel in 1948 during israeli war of indepdence that england would use atom bomb agaisnt israel unless israel stop ddrowning royal air foarce palnes and pilots who were helping Jordan against israel.
the same england was in upsroar in july 1981 when isrea;l attakced iraq's nuclear reactor-just check out theier papers of the time
the same ngland was leading charge agasint isreal in june 82 when isreal attacked palestinain terrorists inside lebanon-that was at t time when england was in illegal occupation for malvinas island.
that is short glimpse of how much england and anglosaxon race care about jews and israel.
look at editorails of the times, the newsweek during those crucial perios of june 82 and see how they(the TImes, the gaurdian, BBC, ITV) were suggesting that israel or atleast tel aviv should be bombed.-just chek the british papers and bbc clips from april 82 to august 82.Also check those british bastrds joutrnlism hist in the month of summer 1981 when iraqi nuclear planty was bombed by the isralis and the british were the first-along with iraq -to protest agasint the israeli action.
It is very interesting that the same type of english people(who are anti-communists, anti-blacks, anti-muslims, anti-catolics) started the same sort of propaganda(like used against russians and communists) against The Germans.the Frenchs and Europeans in general. First England did not want germany united(though during cold war it suggested that only Russians are against it). soon after German reunification and even before disintegration of Soviet union ,England changed the lie-tactics(through media and government) against Europe. There is one more thing. nato was supposed to counter warsaw pact, with the latter gone there was no discussion as to nato should be wound uop or not. Europe does not need nato. Europe can have and should have her own defence system as is the Germo-Franco_Italian_Spanish collaboration. that European defence pact must be stengthened rather than germany supporting nato. Actually england needs nato to prop up its nasty influence in military matters. With the help of usa and nato has england been able to prop up her influence. In fact england is ant-Europe and through nato it wants to keep a tab on european affairs and not let Europe get strong on her own. As england can not do this own her own it has let America involved in it(during empire days england hardly shared power with America but it needs America now). Germany or Europe does not need nato. In fact nato is the greatest enemy(through england)of germany and europe. How can england be so much anti-Germany,working dso much against German interests and be a major parterner in common defence pact?It is a ludicrous situation. England manipulates financial market(in last8 years through recession and what not london market has risen 3 fold while far Eastern markets-who are the main producers of consumer goods-has fallen drastically.). That is why it pumped up the value of pound before joing european sustem-ofcourse it was unsustainable but for devaluation of pounds the Germans and some jews(as said by bbc) were blamed. As england does not want German or any other European country to get economically strong and be financially independent of london market, it opposed Single currency vehemently.Even a so called left-paper like Guardian was suggesting that if Shroeder(of german spd party) were the chancellor than he would give more say(than others in europe) to England-so it would have been good. In other word they want special treatment for themselves.
avatar singh
May 11th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Afghan History Suppressed: Islamists, Heroin and the CIA – by Dean Henderson – 2011-04-10 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
Money Laundering and the Global Drug Trade are Fueled by the Capitalist Elites – by Tom Burghardt – 2010-07-21 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
Afghan Heroin Took Million Lives Last Decade: Russia – 2010-06-10 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
Drugs for Europe: Protected by Powerful Western Interests, Afghanistan Heroin Transits Through Kosovo – 2010-06-07 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
Afghan Heroin Flow Channeled to Russia – by Alexander Barentsev – 2010-05-24 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
The Afghan War: "No Blood for Opium" – by Dr. John Jiggens – 2010-04-21 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
UN Report: Afghan Heroin Killed 90,000 in 2009 – 2010-01-18 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
Afghanistan: Heroin-ravaged State – by Prof. Peter Dale Scott – 2009-05-08 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
Afghanistan: Britain is protecting the biggest heroin crop of all time – by Craig Murray – 2007-07-24 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
Heroin is "Good for Your Health": Occupation Forces support Afghan Narcotics Trade – by Prof. Michel Chossudovsky – 2007-04-29 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
Who benefits from the Afghan Opium Trade? – by Michel Chossudovsky – 2006-09-21 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
The Spoils of War: Afghanistan's Multibillion Dollar Heroin Trade – by Michel Chossudovsky – 2005-05-05 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
avatar singh
May 11th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
bin Laden was another of those monsters of our creation, one of those Muslim “freedom fighters” that President Ronald Reagan celebrated for having responded to the CIA’s call to kill the Soviets in Afghanistan. That holy crusade against infidels was financed by Saudi Arabia and armed with U.S. weapons to oppose a secular Afghan government with Soviet backing but before Soviet troops had crossed the border. In short, it was an ill-fated and unjustifiable intervention by the U.S. into another nation’s internal affairs.
Don’t trust me on this one. Just read the 1996 memoir by former Carter administration security official and current Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, a book touted by its publisher as exposing “Carter’s never-before-revealed covert support to Afghan mujahedeen—six months before the Soviets invaded.” This dismissal of the claimed Cold War excuse for the backing of the mujahedeen was acknowledged by President Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, who, when asked by the French magazine Le Nouvel Observateur if he regretted “having given arms and advice to future terrorists,” answered that he did not: “What is most important to the history of the world? Some stirred-up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the Cold War?”
avatar singh
May 11th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
BBC comment(atleast her washingtons correspondent's comments) on scooter LibBy's gulity verdit on 6th march,2007–"it does not matter to white house as long as iraq war turns out to be all right"!! for BBc illegal occupation of iraq and killing of million civilians does not matter -it will be al r ight for american occupation. This is human rights and democracy ala BBc and british propaganda.
see and watch todays bbc and realize how much bbc and other british propaganda machinary is responsible for bush war crimes.
He also assuredly told that this "white house is quite safe"as wished for by the british ofocurse. during gore-bush florida tussle bbc was advocating gore to leave bush alone as britian was waiting for american missile defence to come her shore soon and so no delay in small matter of who should be presidentof usa be allowed.d-bit belicve it? look at all british propaganda between 1st novembr till 20th novembr of 2000.
it is high time that engish spies in american establishment be eliminated..
it is high time that these english spies in usa are taken care of .
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these protestant baptists((and so callled religious fundamentalists and evnagalicals bastards)) are the agents of england inside america and have always been.
thse baptists are the ones who created civil war for the benefit of british to reconquer america and during attack of britian in 1812 these baptists were acting as enemy agents inside amaerica.
these baptisat are called patrioit–now what a shame? the southern flag is sympbol of american patriotism when it was really an instrument of treachery to the american independence.
" I am afraid the meddling small minded, fearful white boy is indicative of a large group of the amerikan types who still support a corrupt regieme of neo-con syncopants. He and those like him live in suspicion and fear of anyone different from themselves.
He was once a settler who cut down and burned the forest of New England because he was afraid of the wildlife. He was once a trader who passed out smallpox blankets to the Indians. Then later a buffalo hunter who decimated entire herds and left them to rot on the plains. His grandfather herded Japanese into camps, his father was at MyLai. His brothers are at Abu Graib and Gitmo. Where will he be tommorrow?"
" but all non-WASP got (and still get) their time as scapegoat-du-jour: Native, Black, Chinese, Irish, Italian, Jew, Japanese, Catholic, Latino, and now Middle-Eastern, just to name a few. Along with the scapegoating goes the profiling, which is little more than prejudice and stereotypes made legal."
The recent director of Harvard’s Carr Center for Human Rights, Michael Ignatieff, proposed in the New York Times in May 2004 that we should give U.S. presidents the authority to preventively detain U.S. citizens and to engage in “coercive interrogations” should the United States experience another terrorist attack like 9/11. Ignatieff argued that “defeating terror requires violence” and “might also require coercion, secrecy, deception, even violation of rights.” “Sticking too firmly to the rule of law simply allows terrorists too much leeway to exploit our freedoms,” he said.[1]
In addition to Harvard’s top human rights academic arguing on behalf of “torture lite,” Harvard Law School’s Alan Dershowitz supports “torture warrants” so that U.S. presidents can torture detainees in so-called “ticking bomb” cases.
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britain is the number one parasite nation of this world and is the main eviul brain behind american offensive (perpetual war) everywhere in the world. Why? Because only through american military might can a fourth rate country like england hope to have some influnce in the world.
and the rest of the world is resopibnsible for this-why has aljarreza engagesd the british journalists like frost in the english version?lokk how much propaganda english eversion al zareeja is making agasint irana nd zimbawe -in otherworlds doing the bidding for british media and british govermnet lies.
it is high time that thr british are removed forcibly or killed from evrywhere outside britian or may be even inside if they are not goign to stop destrying other nations.
avatar singh
May 11th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
As America teetered on the brink of entering World War II, Charles A. Lindbergh gave a fateful speech that did more damage to the America First movement for peace than all the propagandistic efforts of the pro-war groups he named in Des Moines that day. In his oration, the great aviator and American hero sought to define who and what had brought us to the point of no return:
"The three most important groups who have been pressing this country toward war are the British, the Jewish, and the Roosevelt administration.
"Behind these groups, but of lesser importance, are a number of capitalists, Anglophiles, and intellectuals who believe that the future of mankind depends upon the domination of the British empire. Add to these the Communistic groups who were opposed to intervention until a few weeks ago, and I believe I have named the major war agitators in this country."
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avatar singh
May 11th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Afghanistan and Pakistan are merely stepping stones on the road to "taking out" or dismembering the only power on earth which can be a competitor to the US, China. And the US ruling class is deadly serious about this. Its main propaganda weapon will be human rights, in the form of free speech, ethnic rights and, yes believe it or not, trade union rights (!). If one has any doubts about it, the latest example is in
today's NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/09/world/asia/09ch….
—————————————————————————————————–
May 11, 2011
Now That's Chutzpah!
Hillary Blasts China on "Human Rights"
By MIKE WHITNEY http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney05112011.html
Is there anything more irritating than listening to US officials blabber about "human rights"?
Here's Hillary Clinton bashing China for their "deplorable" human rights record, and meanwhile Bradley Manning sits naked and freezing in a 6' by 8' cinderblock cell in some far-flung American gulag waiting to get fingernails yanked out.
And that's just for starters. What about Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, Bagram and the myriad other dungeons, concentration camps and black sites the US has scattered across the planet. The United States is the biggest human rights abuser in the world today. Clinton's in no position to be giving other people lectures.
Calpico
May 11th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
"Apparently, one is not allowed to discuss a controversial view on foreign policy without getting the vulture treatment."
Controversial? Stupid is more like it.
Calpico
May 11th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Not all Jews are neo-cons, not all Neo-cons are Jews. Hell, not all Jews are Zionists. You and your PC.
carl
May 11th, 2011 at 8:58 pm
Frum sprays his shorts at the mere mention of American "hard power." Drives the little man bonkers. Why don't we send his wise ass to the front so he can defend us all from the bad guys? I mean, he's so willing to risk other people's lives. Let the cowardly little bastard suit up, and show us what he's made of!
We should draft a letter to the terrorists (by which I mean the ones who don't sport a DC or Virginia zip code):
Dear Mr. Terrorist,
Please read Mohatma Ghandi. If you find him as unpersuasive as Dick, George, Barak, and the neocon slime seem to find him, please don't kill the janitors. They're not responsible, and David Frum is not that hard to find. Focus on those who responsible indiscriminate killing, and for the five-and-dime Goebbles who propagandize for more war and mayhem. Don't emulate the American barbarians!
Just Find Frum.
Sincerely,
A neutral observe who wishes your would read Ghandi a bit more carefully.
carl
May 11th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Dear Mr. Terrorist,
Please read Mohatma Ghandi. If you find him as unpersuasive as Dick, George, Barak, and the neocon slime seem to find him, please don't kill the janitors. They're not responsible, and David Frum is not that hard to find. Focus on those responsible for indiscriminate killing in Muslim lands, and on the five-and-dime Goebbles who propagandize for more war and mayhem.
Don't emulate the American barbarians! Just Find Frum.
Sincerely,
A neutral observer who wishes you would read Ghandi a bit more carefully.
Ira7Epstein
May 11th, 2011 at 10:52 pm
I do not regret the demise of the USSR one second, and think evil empire is an accurate description of what the Soviet Union was. The collapse of the Soviet Union was a great victory for liberty despite what the USG has done in its aftermath. All empires collapse and the American empire will be no different. When the American empire collapses it will also be a great victory for liberty and the American people. Hopefully, the collapse of empire in the United States will be followed by a restoration of individual liberty (both economic and personal as if the two can be seperated) in the United States.
james
May 11th, 2011 at 11:15 pm
To all you guys defending Frum I have a question or a thought:
OBL was a violent terrorist who deserves to put in his place. But he did not mince with bullshit to look differewnt and he fought for it physically. He gets killed and Americans celebrate in thbe streets. like a crazed 3rd world country
Frum and his likes do not mind, hell they promote, killing millions for thier idiology but are not willing to take a rifle and do it. He is a pespected politician
Who would you respect more, this is really an honest questiin and I love to have answers.
Oswaldwasalefty
May 12th, 2011 at 1:02 am
There never has been an arm capable of stopping the U.S. war machine. Not our republican form of government, anti-war movements, and certainly no military force in the world can challenge the unprecedented military dominance of the U.S. Chalmers Johnson was right about this. The U.S. Empire will have to collapse of its own dead weight, because it doesn't look like any democracy movement in the U.S. is capable of doing it, so far.
Dan
May 12th, 2011 at 11:06 am
Because it's pointless to openly debate – the majority of people believe and therefore it is true in its implications.
Dan
May 12th, 2011 at 11:30 am
To debate matters already solidified in the collective consciousness of the electorate is an exercise in futility. Well conserved time/energy in focusing on the implications here.
San Fernando Curt
May 12th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
With 60 percent of Americans favoring an Afghan pullout not that bin Laden is dead, we must find some way to maintain this nifty "bookending" of Iran. We have troops on both sides of the Persian bugaboo, in Iraq and Afghanistan. If we pull out, think of how miffed Israel will be!
avatar singh
May 12th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
world war three has already started by the anglosaxonr ace agasint all other races of the world only other races doinbto realise it becaue the victims are being picked up one by one.
combination of russia,chaina dn idnia would have ability to counter that eviul of angloamerican created world war but unfortunately india is under americanaq gent the harami manmoahn singht eh uneellcted priem mnsiter and china and russia are too stupid to not even stoip the un resolution on libya.
Alan MacDonald
May 12th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
The Empire is suckering in more NYT/Judith Miller-type media suckers to promote more war, while thinking they are just reporting the news.
This Frontline "kill / capture" campaign and its falsely 'excited' JSOC assassination raid promotion by the hapless media is unknowingly seeding (and pre-selling) Americans MORE war, not less.
This is beginning of the Empire's marketing campaign for the coming "Attack Pakistan" con-job.
ABC, NBC et al, as early as this past Sunday morning's News 'shows' were already splashing big TV graphics across the TV screens of America — "Pakistan; Friend or Foe" and "Can Pakistan be Trusted" — is 'softening-up' the US public to get ready to support attacks on Pakistan, a nuclear country, which may very likely lead to nuclear war!
Boy oh boy, it didn't take long to answer the question the media has been asking since OBL was killed in Pakistan, namely; Why now and in Pakistan??
The seminal question of not the how, but the WHY of the successful USA assassination of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan — embarrassingly close to their West Point equivalent — was a big part of the US corporatist media's attention, focus, and speculative excitement about the killing of OBL.
But the bigger WHY question is why the media is focusing (and shaping) the attention of average Americans on this WHY of WHY now, and more pivotally — WHY Pakistan.
Well, it didn't take long to parse and understand this seminal question!
The WHY NOW part of the question is tied directly to Thomas Barnett's 2004 Naval War College book (and plan), "The Pentagon's New Map", which book clearly lays out the strategy for the disguised global Empire, which has taken over and is now posing as our former country, to also TAKE-OVER the "Gap" countries along a 5000 mile swath from Mauritania to the very boarders of India and China — and for that disguised global Empire to have the cover-story of needing to use its "Leviathan" military force (with "whatever means necessary") to guilefully con the American people into accepting (and even cheering for) the next supposedly essential military intervention beyond Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, and Syria — ie. to go into PAKISTAN with both feet.
The supporting question of WHY THERE (in Pakistan) is that OBL was found and killed in PAKISTAN while being supposedly 'protected' by PAKISTAN's military and ISI forces is, of course, to engender in the ever gullible and PR-deluded USA prole-citizens, the hate and FEAR of Pakistan, and specifically its supposedly untrustworthy and DANGEROUSLY NUCLEAR ARMED military and ISI ("country within a country") forces that might at any instant attack the US "Homeland" with known nuclear capability —- leaving the only warning as a "NUKULAR" SMOKING GUN MUSHROOM CLOUD.
In other words, our dear leader, Obama, is using Osama's death in Pakistan as the 'triggering mechanism' for precisely the level of nationalism, fear and terror that Bush, Cheney, Powell and others in the cast had to work much harder to falsely produce with the non-"nukular" Iraq — but this time with the issue of the US population already fully aware that Pakistan is a nuclear power — and now with the easy PR jump to the conclusion that Pakistan must be eliminated as a threat.
Boy oh boy, has the science of PR trickery and false-flagging to start wars evolved a long way from the days when all Hitler had to do was have a few of his soldiers dress-up in Polish Army uniforms and make a phony attack on a German radio outpost to start WWII.
http://www.truthandliberty.com/False-Flag_Attacks…
So, as Mae West humorously cautioned her next would-be boyfriend, "hold onto your hat, this may be a bumpy ride".
Yes, folks, we now should all understand why the killing of Osama happened HERE (Pakistan) and NOW (Mayday 2011) — the Revolution by this disguised global corporate/financial/militarist EMPIRE which controls our former country by hiding behind the facade of its bought and owned TWO-Party modernized Nazi "Vichy" sham of faux-democratic government and Goebbelesque media is about to "lower the boom" — and you can be sure that this time the "lowering of that boom" will fall not only on the heads of Pakistanis, but also on ours.
As Hannah Arendt presciently warned from her painful experiences with the last Empire that tried to take over the world and eliminate a portion of its own citizens:
"Empire abroad entails tyranny at home".
Hang-on fellows, this is going to be a bumpy ride indeed.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
Liberty & democracy over violent empire — People's Party 2012
solly
May 12th, 2011 at 7:23 pm
You delete stuff you don't like?
mohammed
May 14th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
if you don't understand the anger than the israelis are keeping a lot from you
David Frum: Laptop Bombardier, Globalist, Lunatic | Conservative Heritage Times
May 22nd, 2012 at 12:47 pm
[...] Frum is a prime example of this dangerous political species, which is just as universalist as the most raving Marxist (hence their enthusiasm for open borders), and always ready for another splendid little war. [...]