Note: The following is the text of a talk given Oct. 25 at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.
Whatever happened to the antiwar movement?
Remember all those marches, all those placards, those giant puppets and loud displays of moral outrage?
It’s vanished! Gone! Evaporated like morning mist!
At one point, millions were marching in the streets in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, people all over the world, and then – nothing! Never in the history of politics has a movement retreated faster and more completely – but in this case, it was a voluntary retreat, an act of self-abolition.
George W. Bush was the perfect hate object: obtuse, dogmatic in his ignorance, and boyishly uninformed, he had all the traits we loved to hate. It was easy to feel disdain for a President who seemed way in over his head. And his neoconservative advisers were almost caricatures of evil, such as Richard Perle, who looks and talks like a cartoon villain: or Donald Rumsfeld, whose blustering belligerence was easily parodied, not least of all by himself.
But now there’s a new warmonger in town, a new Caesar who is not quite such an easy target. As Medea Benjamin, noted peace activist and founder of “Code Pink,” put it:
“We don’t have a very vibrant anti-war movement anymore. The issues have not changed very much. … Now we have a surge [in Afghanistan] that we would have been furious about under George Bush, yet it’s hard to mobilize people under Obama. We have the same anti-war movement and not the same passion.”
Indeed, most Americans who were marching in the streets, denouncing what they called “Bush’s war,” voted for Barack Obama for President. They supported him enthusiastically, a number of the activist types campaigned for him, and now that we’re living through what Bob Woodward calls “Obama’s Wars,” these former peaceniks have buttoned their lips.
When Obama was elected, the main peace coalition, which called itself United for Peace and Justice, congratulated him in a front page article on their web site – and then promptly dissolved! Oh, they still claim to oppose the wars we are fighting – in theory – but in practice they just aren’t all that interested in doing anything about it. And we’re not just talking about the limousine liberal set here: hard-line Marxists, who have always been involved in the various peace movements, are also going squishy. At a recent “antiwar conference” held in Buffalo, New York, which was dominated and largely organized by a Trotskyist group known as Socialist Action, the participants voted to pour their energy into building the October 2nd pro-Obama demonstration recently held in Washington, D.C., which dubbed itself “One Nation Working Together.”
Yeah, right, One Nation Working Together for the Democratic Party.
The rally, a left-wing version of the Glenn Beck pray in, was basically a get out the vote effort on behalf of the beleaguered Democrats. From the platform, speaker after speaker told the rather thin crowd that their moral duty was to go out and vote Democrat. That’s the ticket! And what did they get in exchange for acting as water boys for the union bureaucrats? Nothing – not a single speaker, not a single slogan, not a single antiwar placard onstage. Nothing, nada, zilch. There was no official antiwar speaker precisely because the rally was organized and controlled by the Obama-crats, who all support their commander-in-chief as he wages a war of conquest in Afghanistan and extends it into Pakistan. However, the party hacks lost control of the stage, at one point, when Harry Belafonte shattered the silence.
Charging that “the wars that we wage today in far away lands are immoral, unconscionable and unwinnable,” the famous musician delivered a stunning denunciation of the war – a moment you can bet was not supposed to happen. Belafonte then started railing about how we’re headed for “a totalitarian state in America,” which kind of made him seem like a tea partier – except that in the next breath he accused the tea party of being the “villainous” force behind this sinister trend. Go figure.
According to more than one eye witness, the reception to Belafonte’s antiwar message was “muted,” at best. But of course it was. The Democrats don’t want to bring up the war issue, because it’s just another reason for their base to stay home on Election Day. The only other reference to the military — aside from some patriotic comments to the troops — was Jesse Jackson’s call to “Cut the military budget.” A few moments out of hours. Big deal.
Speaking of Democrats and Election Day, you have a perfect example right here in Michigan of how the Democrats have now become the War Party. A look at the web site of congressman John Dingell, another beleaguered Democrat who’s in fear of losing his seat, has this to say about the war in Afghanistan, and I quote:
“While Congressman Dingell was against the Iraq war from its inception, he believes President Obama is rightly focusing on the United States’ daunting mission in Afghanistan. Congressman Dingell supports the Obama Administration’s plan to increase the number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan by 30,000, bringing the total to near 100,000, and to begin a responsible drawdown in 2011.”
Why was Iraq a bad war, and Afghanistan the good war? We’ve been in Afghanistan for going on ten years – and what, if anything, have we accomplished? And of course Obama’s extension of the war into Pakistan – a country that has nuclear weapons – goes entirely unmentioned. But that’s not the worst of it. Dingell’s web site also has the following to say:
“On March 10, 2010, the House considered House Congressional Resolution 248, a resolution directing the President to remove the United States Armed Forces from Afghanistan pursuant to section 5(c) of the War Powers Resolution. Though he voted against bringing the troops home immediately as the resolution called for and instead favors President Obama’s plan for a responsible troop drawdown, Congressman Dingell was pleased that Congress was able to have a full debate in front of the American people on our nation’s course in Afghanistan.”
Here is Dingell, congratulating himself on granting us the privilege of having a real debate in Congress over the necessity of this costly and futile war – and touting his own vote to keep us there. According to him, we ought to be grateful that the princes and princesses of Washington even deigned to discuss the possibility of getting out. We’re supposed to be content with that. Well, guess what – we aren’t!
People like Dingell want to have it both ways: they want to appeal to their liberal constituents, who perhaps voted for Obama because of his opposition to the Iraq war, and they want to placate the Obama administration, which is not only sticking with George W. Bush’s agenda of endless war, but is intent on escalating it. We are now fighting a not so secret war in Pakistan, a nuclear-armed state with a very shaky government that is supposedly allied with us, and yet is accused of trying to undermine us at every turn.
Indeed, according to Bob Woodward’s recent book, Obama’s Wars, the presidents of both Pakistan and Afghanistan believe that the US government, and not the Taliban or Al Qaeda, is launching terrorist attacks and trying to destabilize their governments. Yet we are giving both of these characters billions in US tax dollars, and sacrificing the lives of our sons and daughters, to rescue their corrupt regimes from a well-deserved oblivion.
Let’s take a look at the strategy the US has developed to fight and win the war in Afghanistan: we have a new counterinsurgency strategy that can be summed up in three words: “Clear, hold, and build.” The idea is that the troops will live “among the people” – among the very people whose country they are occupying, and who hate them – and in this way we’ll win “hearts and minds.” Well, during the Revolutionary War – our Revolutionary War – the redcoats were indeed quartered in American homes: the Brits just came in and said: we’re bunking here. The colonists had no choice – just as the Afghans have no choice. This is hardly the way to win “hearts and minds.” It is, instead, a good way to inflict lots of casualties on your own troops.
What we are doing in Afghanistan is often described as “nation-building.” But that’s not quite accurate. I would call it colony-building. No “nation” can be built from the outside, by outsiders, funded and defended by allies: however, that is precisely how you establish a colony, or a protectorate. What we’re doing in the wilds of Central Asia is building an empire – or, rather, adding on to our empire, which already extends all over the world.
This empire of bases and protectorates is hugely profitable for politically connected corporations, what Dwight Eisenhower called the “military industrial complex.” Actually, if you go back and see what Eisenhower originally wrote about this, he called it the “military-industrial-congressional complex” – because it was Congress, which holds the purse strings, that made it all possible. While the armaments industry keeps their pet congressmen rolling in dollars, they reap mega-profits in no bid contracts – and all to support a foreign policy that is premised on America as the policeman of the world.
This role as world policeman is as useful to Democratic party politicians of a “liberal” bent, such as President Obama – and John Dingell – as it is to ordinary Republican warmongers – and perhaps it is more useful for the Democrats. Because military spending is just another “stimulus” package. According to the Keynesian geniuses who have run our economy into the ground, the only way to fix what they broke is to keep spending. And it doesn’t matter, according to them, what we spend the money on: it could be building pyramids. It could be a chicken in every pot. It could be simply throwing freshly printed dollars out of airplanes. Or it could be a war, one that requires the production – and destruction – of lots of planes, tanks, and other materials. Think of war as just another “stimulus” program, and you’ve got a handle on how a liberal Democrat who ran on his antiwar credentials could learn to love perpetual war.
Another arrow in the War Party’s quiver is political correctness: we supposedly have a moral obligation to “liberate” the women of Afghanistan and the region, to free them to be able to go to school, to free them from the harem and the bride price. That recent Time magazine cover with a picture of an Afghan woman who’s had her nose cut off was a powerful piece of war propaganda – and yet the government that we support in Afghanistan is doing exactly the same thing. And the truth of the matter is that even if we had a million troops in Afghanistan, we could not change the culture of that country. They’ve been doing what they’re doing for thousands of years, and no one has been able to tame them – not the British, not the Russians, and not us.
So why has the left been silent on the war issue? What happened to the grand tradition of Eugene Debs, or the Vietnam war protesters, or Martin Luther King who was stalked by the FBI for his key role in building mass opposition to the conflict in Southeast Asia?
A couple of reasons. One, the left has long since given up its old time populist anti-imperialism in exchange for identity politics. Obama is an African-American, and, as far as certain sections of the left are concerned, nothing more needs to be said. For them, this is enough. Enough for them to overlook quite a lot, including a brutal and immoral war that is draining the lifeblood out of us, and indeed draining the resources we need for the very social programs liberals say they want at home.
Progressives have made a deal with the devil. And the bargain is this: they’ll shut up about murdering innocent Afghan and Pakistani civilians, about US assassination squads, and about the wholesale assault on our civil liberties, if they can get the goodies they want here at home: more government spending, more government employees, and more government period. After all, who cares if a lot of foreigners get killed? As long as they get theirs.
The transformation of the American left really is a sad and pathetic process to behold, and I’ve been watching it unfold for some time now. You know, during the 1960s, the New Left solidarized with the people of the Third World, whom they – rightly – saw as victims of US imperialism. Their slogan: “Bring the war home!” Today, the unspoken slogan of the left is: Bring the bacon home – and to hell with everybody else!
This indifference to the fate of faceless foreigners is today translating into open hostility to foreigners: has anybody noticed that the Democrats are now emphasizing this anti-foreigner theme as Election Day gets closer? We have the President and his minions in the media railing against “foreign money” that is supposedly pouring into Republican coffers – with no proof, no evidence, just a wild assertion.
And we see that China-bashing has now become another major theme of Democrats running for office: back in California, we’re being subjected to blizzard of ads accusing Republican Meg Whitman of “shipping OUR jobs to China.” Both Barbara Boxer and Jerry Brown are running anti-Chinese ads, evoking the old image of the Yellow Peril – which is a tradition in California. During the 19th century, the labor movement in the Golden State was viciously anti-Chinese, and anti-Japanese. There were anti-Chinese riots in San Francisco, and the state legislature passed a law forbidding anyone of Japanese ancestry from owning land. Boxer and Brown are shamelessly appealing to this racist tradition.
A trade war is just one step away from a shooting war – but isn’t it funny that they want to take on China. Because without China, which has been buying up our debt, the Democrats wouldn’t be able to launch all these spending programs. In any conflict with the US, the Chinese don’t have to take out Washington – they could take out Wall Street without firing a shot by simply dumping all their American securities.
So-called progressives are making their peace with interventionism, and even getting quite comfortable with it, because it is quite compatible with their philosophy of Big Government. If the US government is the answer to all our problems here in America, then why not the world? If the poor and the oppressed in this country can be uplifted by the actions of government, then why not the whole world?
Our foreign policy of global intervention is the natural outgrowth of Washington’s culture of arrogance: the inhabitants of the Imperial City believe that they have not only the ability and the right but the moral duty to bring order to a chaotic world. Modern warfare, especially the kind of counterinsurgency warfare that is now popular with our generals, is nothing but social engineering on an international scale.
Let every Afghan have Obamacare! And while we’re at it, let’s bail out the Afghan banks.
It’s a long way from the distinguished left-wing tradition of opposition to US imperialism. It’s a long way from the anti-draft and antiwar movements of the 1960s. On their way into the corridors of power, via the Democratic party, the left abandoned its principles and the moral high ground.
Now I’ve spent a lot of time raking the Democrats over the coals, but they, after all, are the party in power, at least for the moment. So they are, by definition, the War Party. But the Republicans are so far from being innocent bystanders, when it comes to the crimes of US imperialism, that the distance can only be measured in light years.
The Republican party, which used to stand for limited government and avoiding foreign entanglements, was taken over, in the 1980s, by a clique of ex-leftist intellectuals and activists: these are the neoconservatives. Now I won’t go into a long and detailed historical account of where they came from, and where they’ve wound up: this history is well-known. Starting out in the Democratic party, the neocons who came to exercise such influence in the administration of George W. Bush – such as Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz – started out as aides to Senator Henry “Scoop” Jackson, Democrat of Washington. Known as the Senator from Boeing, Jackson was a cold war liberal who supported the war in Vietnam to the very end. As the party’s base began to turn against the war, the neocons grew restless, and finally walked out. Some of them secured low level appointments in the Reagan administration, especially in and around the newly-created “National Endowment for Democracy,” an organization created by the US government in order to meddle in the affairs of other nations. According to the neocons, democracy had to be “exported” to the rest of the world, just as the Soviets had tried to export their system.
This emphasis on foreign policy is what the neocons are all about, and have always been all about. The founding fathers of the neoconservative movement had been leftists, many were former Trotskyites whose hatred of the Soviet Union for “betraying” the revolution had taken over their politics and their lives. They lived to see their old enemies, the Stalinists, taken down, even if they had to ally with the hated enemy – American capitalism – to do it.
Of course, it wasn’t this crudely stated, and certainly the neoconservative odyssey from left to right didn’t happen overnight, but that’s what it boiled down to: the former communists became the most fervent anti-communists, who advocated a relentless war against the Soviet Union. Many of the original editors of National Review magazine were ex-communists of one sort or another, and didn’t care much about free market economics or the concept of limited government. Their main goal was to wage a war of extermination against the Soviet Union, and this was the thrust of their politics. Oh, on occasion, they would wheel out the gods of the market and offer up a few prayers, but this was somewhat half-hearted, because they didn’t know much about economics and didn’t much care. The founder of the neoconservative movement, Irving Kristol – father to Bill – wrote a book entitled “Two Cheers for Capitalism,” and that about sums up their stance. According to the neocons, capitalism was good, as far as it went, but it was also inherently corrupting. The affluent society, in their view, made possible by capitalism, inevitably gave rise to moral corruption: these were “the cultural contradictions of capitalism,” which, they claimed, had to be tamed by a strict discipline, lest Americans go soft. And of course they couldn’t be allowed to go soft, because in that case they wouldn’t be up for the neocons’ main goal and joy in life: war. A war against the Soviet Union, a war to establish a worldwide American-led democracy, and, in the end, war for the sake of war.
As the neoconservatives took over the conservative movement, it was stripped of its former identity almost completely. Whereas conservatism had once stood for limited government, the neocons invented a new concept, which Fred Barnes, in an article in the neocon house organ, The Weekly Standard, called “big government conservatism.” And he didn’t mean it sarcastically, but as a positive program, a governing program for conservatives who had made their peace with the welfare-warfare state.
In a generation, conservatism was transformed, from a philosophy of limited government to a scaled down version of the New Deal: from a foreign policy stance that abhorred overseas entanglements and sought to preserve and protect American interest first, conservatives became the advocates of collective security and global intervention. William F. Buckley made the point quite explicitly in a 1956 article published in Commonweal magazine, in which he wrote that the “thus far invincible aggressiveness of the Soviet Union” imminently threatens American security, and that therefore “We have to accept Big Government for the duration – for neither an offensive nor a defensive war can be waged … except through the instrument of a totalitarian bureaucracy within our shores.”
Forget about opposition to confiscatory taxation: conservatives, Buckley wrote, must become apologists for what he called “The extensive and productive tax laws that are needed to support a vigorous anti-Communist foreign policy,” not to mention the “large armies and air forces, atomic energy, central intelligence, war production boards and the attendant centralization of power in Washington – even with Truman at the reins of it all.”
The conservatives of the postwar era had opposed NATO, opposed the Marshall Plan, and warned that Truman’s aggressive foreign policy would lead to domestic tyranny at home – and when Truman tried to nationalize the steel mills, in the name of “national security,” they were proved right. The conservatives of the Buckley era became the champions of NATO, the biggest advocates of “foreign aid,” and had no objections to domestic tyranny – as long as they got to be the tyrants.
Conservatism, in short, had become unrecognizable: it had turned into its opposite. Conservatives still paid lip service to the ideas of the free market and individual liberty, but this was only for ceremonial purposes and to keep the contributions coming in. When they got into power, they promptly abandoned their program and their alleged principles, and got in on the Washington gravy train, just like their liberal counterparts.
What really underscored the complete bankruptcy of the Buckleyite conservative movement was the implosion of the Soviet Union. When the Berlin Wall fell, and the Communist empire caved in on itself, they were quite taken aback. Over at Commentary magazine, Norman Podhoretz, the crusty old neoconservative warhorse, was convinced it was all a game of deception. The Communists, he was convinced, were trying to lull us into a false sense of security. At the first sign of Western weakness, the Kremlin would regroup its forces and catch us off balance.
Instead, the Kremlin fell, and so did the entire ideological rationale for neoconservatism. The great enemy was no more – and there was no more reason to spend a great deal of our wealth on the biggest military the world had ever seen. There was no reason to mount a worldwide ideological battle in defense of Western values, nor was there any reason for such pillars of the cold war order as NATO. If war is the end all and be all of your ideology, you have to have an enemy worthy of the name, but such no longer existed. What to do?
Out of power, and drifting, their years spent in the political wilderness during the Clinton years were not wasted. The neocons consolidated their hold on the Republican party and the institutions of the conservative movement, particularly the big foundations that dispensed large cash grants to favored scholars and causes. They retired to the academy, bided their time – and at last their moment came.
When George W. Bush went to Washington, a great many neoconservatives went with him, and took their places in the national security bureaucracy, and the upper reaches of the administration. So that when September 11, 2001, rolled around, they were in place, and ready to move.
They would have invaded Iraq even if 9/11 had never happened, but the terrorist attacks made it much easier for them. Indeed, 9/11 gave the neocons a new lease on life, and they took full advantage of the opportunity. It gave them what they most wanted and needed: a new enemy against whom a new ideological and military assault could be launched, with much fanfare and at great expense. Bill Kristol, editor of The Weekly Standard and son of Irving, had once threatened to walk out of the Republican party because the congressional Republican caucus had nearly suspended funding for the Kosovo war. The Republicans, Kristol complained, were in danger of becoming “isolationists.” In other words, they had returned to the foreign policy of the Founding Fathers, and decided it was time stop meddling where we had no business meddling. Unfortunately, Kristol didn’t follow through on his promise, and, after 9/11, he would have no more cause to complain.
Eight years of neoconservative rule have brought us to this moment: bogged down in two wars in the Middle East, and on the brink of bankruptcy. The Bush administration implemented the neoconservative doctrine of “big government conservatism” with a vengeance – and the results you see all around you. Record deficits, a declining standard of living, a war that will wind up costing three TRILLION dollars, according to the Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, and, in the end, the biggest bailout – and the greatest extension of government power – in American history.
And so a war-weary nation turned to Obama – and got more war, as well as the onset of an economic downturn that shows no signs of turning around.
Out of the ruins of the defeated GOP a new movement is emerging – the so-called Tea Party. Focused solely on economic issues, for the most part, the Tea Partiers will sooner or later have to face the issue of foreign policy, and there are many signs that they are rebelling against the neoconservative doctrine of perpetual war. Says John Raese, the Republican candidate for Senate in West Virginia:
“If you study Great Britain, which was one of the greatest countries in the world for a long time, they lost most of their monetary-most of their superpower-because they kept chasing things throughout the world. I’m more of a Ronald Reagan Republican than I am a Bush Republican to be up front with you. I think we have to take care of our nation, and we have to make our nation strong, and you build that nation from within.”
And here is Ken Buck, running for the Senate in Colorado:
"We can’t nation build in Afghanistan, the way we did with the Marshall Plan in Germany. It’s a fundamental mistake to assume that a people as backward as the Afghans are going to be able to build the industrialized nation and the democracy that it takes to be able to achieve what we would consider a Western-style democracy. And we have to be realistic about our goals. I think we have been there far too long. I think we have to give our troops an exit strategy, and get out of there when we can.”
I could cite more such statements, but suffice to say here that many grassroots tea party candidates and activists are supporting the anti-interventionist views that Ron Paul has been putting front and center since the very beginning of the tea party rebellion. Conservatives are beginning to realize that you can’t have limited government and a policy of unlimited war: you can’t have small government and a huge empire; you can’t remain within the bounds set by the Constitution and project American military power all over the world. It is one or the other.
The conservatives of the 1930s and 1940s understood this: the conservatives of today are beginning to relearn that lesson. But libertarians must work to bring these lessons home to them, to offer the kind of consistency that alone can lead us out of bankruptcy and increasing government control over our lives. That’s why I am going around the country speaking to groups like this: because we must provide leadership to a mass movement that is growing in this country and is seeking to break the chains of Big Government – we must show them that the Empire is an albatross hung ’round our necks, and we won’t break our chains until we are free of it.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- BS in Baghdad – May 24th, 2012
- Interventionism and the Elites – May 22nd, 2012
- Obama or Anarchy? – May 20th, 2012
- What Does Ron Paul Want? – May 17th, 2012
- Hillary’s Terrorists – May 15th, 2012





Johnny in Wi.
October 26th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
Great speech Justin: I have been saying here for quite a while that the Tea Party has a lot of people who can be lead in the right direction. Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan have been seeding the way for a long time, as well as yourself and many others. I have hope that the new people coming in will have some common sense and stop all this waste on militarism and empire.
Karlek
October 26th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
May I suggest you read Eli Zaretsky's Oct. 21, 2010 article at Tikkun.org, "Hopelessness and the New Normal". I say that many are terrified or exhausted, after 8 years of trying to stop war. But today we had our weekly peace vigil, and though it was raining, windy and cold, I still felt a deeper chill as they read the names of the US war dead.
JLS
October 26th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
I'm so glad to see you speaking at colleges Justin! Most of them got more education in your speech than in their whole semester.
paulBass
October 26th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
setting your self up for a big disappointment, because as you know, as soon as the republicans are back in charge the teaparty will disappear faster than moveon.org's antiwar page.
JLS
October 26th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
nice!
robertnoval
October 26th, 2010 at 11:59 pm
"So-called progressives are making their peace with interventionism, and even getting quite comfortable with it…
Not so of one Nicolas J S Davies ("Sandy", to his friends), the author of “Blood On Our Hands: the American Invasion and Destruction of Iraq” (Nimble Books, 2010)
http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Our-Hands-American-De…
, a comprehensive, detailed chronicle of this tragedy, fitting it perfectly into the context of Washington's imperialism.
Sandy is the local coordinator for Progressive Democrats of America.
http://www.pdamerica.org/articles/campaigns/2010-…
He's the driving force behind "Unhappy Hour".
Every first Friday of the month, at the intersection of US 1 and S.W. 17th Ave. we stand, waving the anti-war signs Sandy provides.
There are about 190 members listed on the Miami-Dade county "Campaign for Liberty" site.
Why am I the only help Sandy gets from there?
—The Bikemessenger
mickperry
October 27th, 2010 at 12:32 am
Personally I'm with Harry Belafonte on this one. Totalitarianism is being achieved in the US by stealth, and the Tea Party was first created and is now being groomed to control the rebellious dissent certain to occur anywhere a nation finds its economy having to 'structurally adjust' in a radically downwards direction. People in the US are going to see their living standards fall by 25% to 30% over the next decade.
In addition to its overseas adventures, Empire is using the strategy of 'divide and rule' at home also, and in this instance the scapegoats will likely continue to be people of colour, the poor and economic refugees. This should be a major issue for any genuine populist movement to take on board, but there's little evidence of any momentum in this direction from the Tea Party so far.
In addition to what Joseph Wilson has recently described as the by now total subversion of law in the US, it is also worth noting that aerial drones are now employed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, and New Mexico and Arizona, and the possible danger of 'mission creep' is staring us full in the face. “First they introduced the surveillance drones, but I did not care because I was not a criminal. Then they armed the drones, but I did not care because I was not a terrorist…”
'Bring the war home' indeed.
Ali
October 27th, 2010 at 1:36 am
The so called "antiwar movement" has acquired the net sum of "Nothing, nada, zilch", because it has a failed, or at a minimum, bad idea at its core. The bad idea, of course is America itself. An organization of fifty countries, united and held together by whatever force that is necessary to keep it from falling apart. The idea of "nation building" and "world government" has been at the very heart of America since its inception. Nine years in Afghanistan is a short time compared to two centuries in northern America. The "antiwar movement" is "Nothing, nada, zilch", because it claims to be a better operative for the original idea of the world government, the one that was practiced on a smaller scale some two hundred years ago. There is no reason for the American people to abandon those who have maintained and nourished the idea for two hundred years, and instead invest in some new upstarts who even do not know what they are talking about anyway.
So, basically, not until the antiwar movement declares that every American that dies in Iraq or Afghanistan trying to kill an Iraqi or Afghan in his/her homeland, deserved to die, is there a hope of a viable, honest "antiwar movement". There are no two ways about it. Either the American is wrong and deserves to die or it is the Iraqi or Afghan that deserves to die. No third parties are there to consider at this stage, neocon, neotrotskyte or whatever. Americans have acquired a reputation of general ignorance, but that is no excuse for the most advanced organization of states in the world. In fact Americans are not ignorant or dumb. Their greatest sign of intelligence is how they are abandoning the "antiwar movement". They have made their choice, which is to continue to wage bloody wars against other nations for as long as they have the resources to do so. In fact it is the obliteration of these resources at such rapid rates that worries the so called "antiwar movement" of America the most. The decision for wars of choice, was not made by Bush or Obama. It was made when the American constitution was written. The genius of what you call the framers was not what is pumped out of American propaganda. Their genius was to come up with something inherently more vicious and more efficient that the methods of their British brothers, only disguised in beautiful words.
The American soldiers, that die in Afghanistan, thousands of miles from home, deserve to die. Can you say it? Of course not. You have made your Choice a long time ago. You are an American. Antiwar? Give me a break.
thoughtbell
October 27th, 2010 at 2:51 am
Nice article–a broad sketch that brings certain contours to light, with some intriguing historical interpretation stuffed in every chink.
Peter
October 27th, 2010 at 3:02 am
So when is ANTIWAR going to mobilise all of it's readers and stage a series of massive street rallies?
HappyCamper
October 27th, 2010 at 3:04 am
Mr. Raimondo,
you ask, "Whatever happened to the antiwar movement?"
Well, what actually "happened" is that, from the left to the right, far too many people bought (and are still buying) the most ludicrous conspiracy theory of all about 9/11: That muslim terrorists attacked the US/the West and are trying to kill as many westerners as they can. As long as a critical mass of people holds on to that believe and thereby gives credit to the basic notion, that the west is threatended by muslim fanatics, all efforts to stop the wars and get rid of the fraudulent powers-that-be are doomed to fail …
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…
… I find it hard to believe that a man like Justin Raimondo does not see that the official fairy tale of 9/11 ist just that: a fairy tale. 19 pilot trainees with superpowers to hold down the Air Force of the mightiest military in the history of men for almost two hours and steel frame buildings collapsing in their own footprints in near free fall speed due to "incompetence" and "failure of intel" (and some newly intruduced laws of physics for that matter) ? This very antithesis of logic and science is plain and utter BS.
When you really want an answer to your question, start by asking yourself why you, in the end, do the business of the Terrorists, who are not of muslim origin. Far from it …
Montaigne
October 27th, 2010 at 3:10 am
I read your links for the book "Blood On Our Hands" and agree they are very interesting. A little American habit of ALWAYS giving the title some sort of MOTTO or SLOGAN (any book seems to get one). So you are always selling, telling and moving. And that is ALSO a part of an inborn problem with your foreign policies, I propose.
donna
October 27th, 2010 at 3:35 am
Is this what you're supporting Justin? http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/10/26-4
pwi
October 27th, 2010 at 3:47 am
All of its readers? No offense but how many would that actually bring to the street's? And if the millions in 2003 did nothing to stop the war…
john
October 27th, 2010 at 3:49 am
I agree with it all , except for the Tea Party observations. Even Rand Paul caved to the Palinistas, and is no refletion at all of his father's views. The tea party is made up of predominantly Bush?Cheney groupies who are seeking to control Washington again, not to limit the power of Washington. And their agenda includes war with Iran as they continue to take their marchig orders from AIPAC, Tel Aviv, and The Religious Right. Their message is contradictory and hypocritical: No big government and a balanced budget, but expand the war while cutting taxes; the right to life, except of course for Middle Eastern women and children who are cluster bombed; illegal immigration is a threat to sovereignty ,but embrace NATO and take orders from Israel; and demand Constitutional gurarantees of second amendment rights, but to hell with amendments four through eight, The First Amendment, and habeas corpus. No, they are not true conservatives, the tea party is just a coalition of Bush/Cheney groupies, Koran burning, andti-Mosque bigots, and birthers who are angered that Bush/Cheney were rejected and in favor of Democratic president–and a black man no less.
GradyWilson
October 27th, 2010 at 3:51 am
The anti-war left has been dissolved, beaten down, and defeated no doubt. This begs the question – where the F is the anti-war libertarian movement? Why isn't Raimondo, Rockwell, and Paul leading rallies instead of wagging their self righteous fingers at the left? Because they are working hard to get the warmongering Republicans (Tea Party) elected.
note – a stronger case can be made that the neocons come from the right wing free market mecca of Rockefeller's University of Chicago and Leo Strauss, than simply from 'Trotsky' as Justin decietfully contends.
Also – there is no history of Republican opposition to big gov imperialism. This is the 'big lie'. There have been individual R's who oppposed it indeed – but as a party the GOP has been, since Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt to Nixon, Kissinger, Reagan, and the Bushs all about big gov intervention and imperialism. Justin knows this. He simply decides to lie about it. Please take a minute to read this historic speech by REPUBLICAN Senator Albert Beveridge praising US imperialism in 1898! http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1898beveridge….
"The March of the Flag
It is a noble land that God has given us……."
GradyWilson
October 27th, 2010 at 3:56 am
Quit lying Johnny.The Tea Party are warmongers. They, like Buchanan, are racist, gay hating, fetus hugging, Jesus freaking, fascists.
"US veteran who killed unarmed Iraqis wins Tea Party support" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/26/us-ve…
HappyCamper
October 27th, 2010 at 3:59 am
There´s a difference between "thinking" one is correct and KNOWING, by studying the facts in a strictly scientific manner, that a certain narrative is false.
Educate yourself about the facts – that is a quite easy thing to do. Everyone with an IQ above room temperature will find out that the official version is a fraud in an hour.
However, what you will find to be far more difficult, is to contemplate the implications and having the courage to face this abyss.
You guys seem to think that it is kinda fun to think of our goverments, intel, banks, military and media to be a corrupt to the bones, mass murdering cabal of self declared "elites", who will not hesitate to ever more deceive us with "noble lies" and kill and maim any numer of people to stay in control.
You are mistaken.
james
October 27th, 2010 at 4:00 am
Whatever Happened to the Antiwar Movement?
Very simple: Total moral bankruptcy of the West, save for a preciouse few like Justin.
Justin Raimondo
October 27th, 2010 at 4:03 am
Except you are wrong: the tea partiers don't back him:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/beltway-beast/tea-pa…
richard vajs
October 27th, 2010 at 4:07 am
Any effective anti-war movement in today's America must also be anti-Zionist. And liberals dare not be anti-Zionist. A movement must be internally consistent to capture anyone's dedication. Israel's brutal, illegal occupation of Palestine and America's acceptance of it leads to our immoral occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan because what is the difference?
Raimondo, you just rattled off a page of nonsense, because you ignore the basic inconsistency of the Left's dislike of America's imperialism and its love of Israel's imperialism.
pwi
October 27th, 2010 at 4:19 am
And you come off as smug and smarter than the average bear. Obama like arrogance.
This is why no one listens to you and very few agree with what you have to say.
HappyCamper
October 27th, 2010 at 4:27 am
Right. "No one listens", apart from thousands, the numbers growing by the day, Engineers and Architects, Pilots and Aviation Professionals, Scientists, Journalists, Intel and Military people, Firefighters, First Responders, Politicians, Artists …
http://patriotsquestion911.com/
http://firefightersfor911truth.org/
pwi
October 27th, 2010 at 4:28 am
Why "must" it be anti-Zionist. War is something mankind does, some do it more and better than others but don't kid yourselves that if Israel disappeared tonight that tommorow will dawn a pacifist utopia.
War is war is it not? Either your anti-war or you not. As JR's writings show the Liberal Left has its fingers in too many pies and as long as it gets a slice of some of those pies they are willing to be fat and happy and "kinda" against war, particually if its their guys war.
What happend to the anti-war movement it splintered in to anti- this camp but not that camp, these guys are warmongers but these guys aren't – even if both are waging war! These guys wage war but vote Democrat – that's OK with me – war and peace on OUR terms!
No wonder war endures.
HappyCamper
October 27th, 2010 at 4:38 am
"Why "must" it be anti-Zionist", you ask. If you think the answer to your question is worth the 10 minutes or so, listen to ITN/BBC legend Alan Hart ( http://www.alanhart.net/ )
http://truthjihad.blogspot.com/2010/09/check-out-…
The complete interview here:
http://noliesradio.org/archives/16222
pwi
October 27th, 2010 at 4:59 am
As I said no wonder war endures.
emsnews
October 27th, 2010 at 5:22 am
Justin, you have decided to spend all your time attacking your allies on the left and rewriting history. This has turned you from a potential bridge from the left to the right into a chasm. Your speeches are divisive and of course, beg the question, why ONLY us liberals demonstrate and yell whereas there is virtually no demonstrations against the wars from the right except when a Democrat is a President.
Yelling about the left supporting imperialism when a Democrat is a President means you didn't look very much in the right wing mirror when Bush ruled us. Remember: we hated Bush mostly because of his DOMESTIC policies and the antiwar stuff was icing on a very big cake of distress and anger.
As for the fascists in the Tea Party: sheesh, you really did buy up all the garbage on the right in this one. Our empire is going bankrupt. We have no domestic protections. The voters move from party to party seeking a change that will save our jobs but the free trade pirates always bribe whoever wins and it is literally business as usual.
You can't see how your beloved 'capitalism' is reaming us out, using us as the world's police at tremendous expense in the form of debt and in return, are winning the trade wars. You must address this loss of sovereignty if you are a 'protectionist' in other areas. We are being squeezed dry and our capitalist wealth has been replaced steadily by sovereign DEBT which is what will kill our empire by 2025.
Tim T
October 27th, 2010 at 5:54 am
Yes, very true!
GradyWilson
October 27th, 2010 at 6:15 am
just because one of your Tea Baggers doesn't endorse the dispicable war criminal does not mean that "Tea partiers don't back him". Many do.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/26/us-ve…
With the help of the right-wing Tea Party movement, and with the benefit of his image as a war hero acquired from what happened on that fateful day in 2004, he has raised almost $1m (£630,000) in donations and is now level-pegging with his Democratic opponent, Mike McIntyre.
"We are in complete contention. We are certainly neck-and-neck. And we are feeling terrific," he said at a Tea Party rally outside Wilmington.
Pantano is one of the new breed of hardline Republicans thrown up by the turmoil of the economic meltdown and the ensuing Tea Party explosion. He served in the first Gulf war, then worked for Goldman Sachs before rejoining the marines days after the 9/11 attacks.
John V. Walsh
October 27th, 2010 at 6:20 am
Justin's sketch of what has happened to the antiwar movement is right on the money and should be distributed far and wide.
Two correctives if you will:
First ,Medea Benjamin unlike the rank and file of Code Pink is a big part of the problem. She and the rest of the "P"DA leadership will put loyalty to Dems over a principled antiwar stance every time when the chips are down.
Second, in reply to "ems" news above, there is a good reason why Raimondo and Nader and others are not seen at antiwar demonstrations. They are excluded systematically by the UF"P"J leadership. I know because I have struggled to get them on the platform and was turned down every time. You see, if you do not agree with UFPJ's ideas of justice, you are out. So in the name of liberalism and in some cases socialism they sacrifice their antiwar principles. The very name UFPJ, with a J, meaning one idea of Justice, tells us that this movement excludes many who would join in opposing war.
A betrayal befitting Iscariot.
John V. Walsh
Greg
October 27th, 2010 at 6:35 am
Your post has so many flawed assumptions and twisted logic that to list them all would take me the better part of the week.
"Either the American is wrong and deserves to die or it is the Iraqi or Afghan that deserves to die."
It is possible that both the American and the Iraqi/Afghan are wrong, but neither deserve to die. Why must one of them "deserve to die"?
Greg
October 27th, 2010 at 6:37 am
You only think you know. There is nothing in this world that we can be certain of, and to state otherwise is to be delusional.
paulBass
October 27th, 2010 at 6:46 am
id say the people who sign up go through training pick up a high caliber rifle and hop on a plane fly half way around the world to kill innocent people, for a pay check. deserve to die, especially in a country that still executes people.
the clear difference is that the people of iraq and afghanistan are mostly fighting for their lives, while americans are fighting for lies or a few bucks
John C
October 27th, 2010 at 6:57 am
Why should the answer to whether or not the incidents of Sept. 11 were an inside job have an influence on the antiwar movement? More specifically, why should my stance via war/antiwar be different whether I believe that Arab commandos carried out the raids on the World Trade Center and Pentagon or whether the destruction was an "inside job"?
Mike
October 27th, 2010 at 6:57 am
Yes I'm afraid so. Round and round we go.
Mechanized
October 27th, 2010 at 7:04 am
The support of this individual appears to rest upon which wing of the Tea Party movement one is referring to. The Palin wing no doubt would support such a candidate. The Ron Paul wing however should and do protest such individuals.
Mechanized
October 27th, 2010 at 7:13 am
"Why isn't Raimondo, Rockwell, and Paul leading rallies instead of wagging their self righteous fingers at the left? Because they are working hard to get the warmongering Republicans (Tea Party) elected. "
As it pertains to Mr. Rockwell the above is quite false. In fact, if one simply peruses the recent articles of the past week at LewRockwell.com one will notice the plethora of articles urging individuals not to vote at all. One article (http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl2/is-religious-right-taking-over-tea-parties.html) has plainly stated that the Tea Party has been almost completely co-opted by the neoconservatives. Mr. Rockwell himself has stated that he does not vote in political elections.
Mike
October 27th, 2010 at 7:17 am
Sheesh what a moron. Get this through your thick skull people…We do NOT have capitalism (not even close) in this nation! We have fascism! Blind, deaf, and dumb. Get an education. Jeez.
andy
October 27th, 2010 at 7:18 am
Stop writing comments and take 15 minutes to research why world trade center buliding 7 fell.
musings
October 27th, 2010 at 7:36 am
Glad to hear that Harry Belafonte is still controversial. The man who called Colin Powell a "house slave" to the Bush White House has not let up on the Obama administration for their continuing to a conduct a neocolonialist war.
That such consistency as Belafonte's should be unusual is a serious matter, because our country was founded on principles. His beef with the Tea Party is unstated, although I would imagine it has to do with their obstinate belief that they are patriots while not needing to define that in terms of much more than the Second Amendment. The antiwar movement is not sufficient for our times. We need teach-ins about everything which undergirds our alleged freedom. It seems that teary-eyed Glenn Beck is the only one stepping up to the plate for that.
Montaigne
October 27th, 2010 at 7:36 am
I sense, that Ali has got it right: The very idea of American is in danger too. Not a danger of any human beings, but of this spiritual creation of an empire. Because that was the very idea from the outset: an empire built upon banners of ideals – as well as if necessary deception and lies! And if necessary: violence with the whole world as hostages!
HappyCamper
October 27th, 2010 at 7:45 am
Just in case your question was not satire:
When 9/11 was an inside-job, what remains of the justifications for the wars/the "war on terrror", the trillions spent on them, the shredding of the constitution, habeas corpus, and the most basic human rights ?
Nada.
HappyCamper
October 27th, 2010 at 7:51 am
And, if I may add, when 9/11 was an inside-job and this is widely acknowledged, what remains of any credibility/legitimacy for our governments, intel agencies, media and so forth ?
Nada. There would be a revolution. And it won´t be pretty, I´m afraid. Hence the need for ongoing COINTELPRO kinda "If you wanna control dissent, you gotta lead dissent"-OPS.
richard vajs
October 27th, 2010 at 7:55 am
pwi
The anti-war movement must also be anti-Zionist if we are going to have any impact in our conducting ruinous wars (ruinous for us and them) against Muslim countries. Why? You have to ask why? Because, dear child, Zionism is the irritant causing whatever passes for "radical Islam". Muslims and Christians in Arab countries see a racist, land-stealing group of intruders abusing Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese, their neighbors. And who enables Zionism? America, of course. So we lose whatever we are trying to accomplish in the Mid East. Likewise our support for the apartheid Union of South Africa led us to do nasty things in Angola and the Congo. We lost all honor in Africa. We did the same in South America, Central America and now the Mid East because special interest groups got us aligned with evil regimes. Some day, we will no longer be the top guy who writes the history. Someone else will, and boy will we look bad.
HappyCamper
October 27th, 2010 at 8:00 am
Well said, Greg. On the other hand, many seem 100% certain, contrary to all the evidence, about them muslims bringing down buidlings in manhattan with airplanes, and act accordingly – waging war on muslim countries the tenth year in a row while pocketing trillions for the slaughter.
How about questioning their rationales in a strictly scientific manner, like, for example, the 1.270 Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth do ?
http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news/41-articles/386…
Bianca
October 27th, 2010 at 8:38 am
For as long as Harry Belafonte is stil "controversial", there is no hope for us.
MoT
October 27th, 2010 at 8:43 am
Grady too often paints everyone with an elephant sized brush. Whatever the Tea Party movement, not party… because there isn't one, has morphed into, the only "wing" that gets any attention is the one pushing the cause of empire. There was a good piece by Karl Denninger with a clever video at the bottom.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/denninger2.1.1….
zion
October 27th, 2010 at 8:52 am
Its time to give up on hope. Tea party is also infiltrated with the same forces that gutted conservatives and antiwar .
George
October 27th, 2010 at 9:06 am
Exactly right, Mechanized.
George
October 27th, 2010 at 9:10 am
"And liberals dare not be anti-Zionist."
Actually, that's not true–it's the right wingers that dare not be anti-Zionist. Just take a look at an article on Israel on Huffington Post sometime.
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 9:25 am
it's you and your appetite
http://www.zshare.net/audio/82043657a19d3051/
Police State of Mind
October 27th, 2010 at 9:32 am
9-11 truth is the fulcrom on which the entire phoney war on terror turns. it is without question a seminal truth that needs to be addressed and exposed. anyone who thinks otherwise is completely self deluded.
peace will never happen until we expose the gov't lies about 9-11. as for the false left right paradigm parroted by the media and political elites, this is nothing but misdirection. neither party wants or cares for peace and neither ever has. obama is nothing but a bankster schill who was put in power to basically marginalize dissent and undermine the antiwar movement. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 9:33 am
http://ideafix7.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/pales…
see what i mean?
HappyCamper
October 27th, 2010 at 9:59 am
I agree completely. However, we are many, they are few and this time is different. The cracks in the overall ponzi are widening.
http://thedailybell.com/
paulBass
October 27th, 2010 at 10:13 am
last i checked there is no tax exempt status for leftist
and most welfare does not go to individual "loafers" but to state governments and the sparsely populated so called red states get far more than the densely populated blue states
paulBass
October 27th, 2010 at 10:27 am
ok you finally came out and said it so im going to jump in.
the reason why i,(and i think many in the antiwar camp) don't like the truthers is because you are legitimizing the bush administration.
your argument is that the wars are wrong because the story behind the event that led to them is false, but your unspoken (most of the time) premise is that if the official story about al qaeda is true then the wars are completely justified.
i don't believe the official story but i think even if exactly what the government said was 100% true, it would still be illegal and immoral to launch these wars
Mordechai Shiblikov
October 27th, 2010 at 10:31 am
It is "liberals" of the Clinton/Obama ilk who have now become yuppie Starbucks Republicans. Clinton and Obama now clearly define what liberals have degenerated into. "Progressives" like Feingold have not joined this crowd. The "left" has not been entirely and completely coopted. Read Chris Hedges' essay on this.
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 10:33 am
"…your unspoken (most of the time) premise is that if the official story about al qaeda is true then the wars are completely justified."
wrong wrong wrong
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 10:37 am
right from the start, 9/11 was a law enforcement problem.
can you explain why the AEI/PNAC people who came in with bush said they needed a new pearl harbor to get their project running?
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 10:51 am
if the traditional parameters for compiling a suspect list had been used (motive, means and opportunity), who would have been the prime suspects?
is it any wonder those same people resisted an investigation, then rigged the investigation that they finally allowed?
paulBass
October 27th, 2010 at 10:56 am
HappyCamper-"On the other hand, many seem 100% certain, contrary to all the evidence, about them muslims bringing down buidlings in manhattan with airplanes, and act accordingly – waging war on muslim countries the tenth year in a row while pocketing trillions for the slaughter. "
"and act accordingly – waging war on muslim countries "
am i misreading him?
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 10:58 am
judging from your willingness to swallow the official story, god knows how your mind works.
…but i dont.
Fred Norman
October 27th, 2010 at 11:01 am
Justin Raimondo: Thank you for your article. I found it informative and educational, but I thought it wandered from the title subject of "Whatever Happened to the Antiwar Movement?" I find the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan immoral and illegal, crimes against humanity, and I want them to end NOW. I focus on the wanton killing of people and the lack of caring about the horrors of these wars. At one time, there were many people who agreed with me; now there are few. Where did they go? Why? That's what I had hoped you would discuss, which to a certain extent you did in the beginning of your article but not in the depth that this issue deserves. I think it must be discussed, it must be faced, it must be brought out in the open, and you're a person who can do this. Please do. Please continue. Peace.
paulBass
October 27th, 2010 at 11:08 am
i think chalmers johnson ran down a good list of potential suspect,
chileans, guatemalans, cubans, congolese, brazilians, argentines, indonesians, palestinians, panamanians, vietnamese, cambodians, filipinos, koreans, taiwanese, nicaraguans, salvadorans, and many more people who might be pissed at the us for committing or supporting terrorism against them
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 11:11 am
ah.
so did they say they wanted a new pearl harbor… which i spose would show a certain amount of motive…
did the "chileans, guatemalans, cubans, congolese, brazilians, argentines, indonesians, palestinians, panamanians, vietnamese, cambodians, filipinos, koreans, taiwanese, nicaraguans, salvadorans, and many more people" also have the means and opportunity?
who are the hands-down priime suspects if there's ever a real investigation?
paulBass
October 27th, 2010 at 11:12 am
i said i don't believe the official story,
and i doubt a non existent deity has much insight in to my thoughts
Andrew
October 27th, 2010 at 11:17 am
I guess they're scared of being stomped on by some Randian Libertarian goon
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 11:20 am
how many chileans, guatemalans, cubans, congolese, brazilians, argentines, indonesians, palestinians, panamanians, vietnamese, cambodians, filipinos, koreans, taiwanese, nicaraguans, salvadorans who just happened to be the once and future king of their country thought 9/11 was very good?
about 321,000 results for netanyahu 9/11 very good http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&…
paulBass
October 27th, 2010 at 11:26 am
well we all know the answer to that and it starts with is and end with rael.
but proof is not forth coming,
but the only things i know of that happened on 9/11
was the chilean coup
paulBass
October 27th, 2010 at 11:31 am
i don't deny the fact that israel has many ties with paramilitary and terrorist groups around the world and has used them as they see fit but that does not mean that those who did the actual act did not have their own reason
p.s. i was in Jerusalem on 9-11 and i can tell you most israelis i spoke to said the same thing as netanyahoo
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 11:36 am
"…proof is not forth coming…"
nope, not after the evidence was shipped to korea and turned into tunafish cans and KIAs.
but in a perverted way, that's only more circumstantial evidence of israeli/neocon involvement, isnt it?
if they hadnt done 9/11, they never would have resisted a real investigation… they never would have risked having the common sense conclusion leaking out like it's doing.
what could possibly account for such desperation?
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 11:43 am
"…i can tell you most israelis i spoke to said the same thing as netanyahoo…"
good enough, and israel and israelis are our bestest friends…
one free lunch after another.
when's the next shoe drop?
paulBass
October 27th, 2010 at 11:48 am
if they hadnt done 9/11, they never would have resisted a real investigation…
my what some people swallow, if they had nothing to do with 9-11 then it was gross negligence and would have every incentive to it cover up.
and beside the less people know the easier it is to use to their advantage.
and since it was clear these people wanted to attack iraq from the beginning why not just have their puppet osama say he was working with saddam
Jedrin
October 27th, 2010 at 11:54 am
This may not be true. Look at all the old elitist Republicans that have been tossed out and the new "wild cards" put in the system. Keep doing this enough times and the effect will be dramatic over time. Term limits by voter. The pressure in DC to do the bidding of the ruling elite is huge and so the pressure of the voters needs to be of a magnitude more to break out of the rut.
paulBass
October 27th, 2010 at 11:54 am
Correlation does not imply causation
but any way im hopeing the next shoe does not drop i hope it is thrown with force at the same people you would like it to happen to but i still have not seen any thing that is concrete proof
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 11:54 am
more likely complicity than negligence.
you know it, i know it, and millions of americans are gradually coming to that conclusion.
what do you spose accounts for such desperation, and why do you think exxon is allied with the neocons of the AEI?
About 400,000 results for exxon AEI http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&…
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
"Correlation does not imply causation"
we're not talking about "correlation" here, we're talking about motive, means and opportunity, and there's abundant evidence of all that.
Dave
October 27th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Please tell me what country ever got rid of its corrupt government by carriying signs.
pwi
October 27th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Me and my appetite? Well I do like fine food and drink but I doubt me and my appetite marching will make much of an impact?
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
when we throw "benevolent global hegemony" in with those pictures of palestine…
big appetites, or smokescreen for the biggest loot job in history?
…most likely, factions running the full spectrum.
either way, israel was a bad enough idea in the first place, and, given the fact that crude oil production has been flat since late 2004, it's looking like a worse and worse idea every day.
GradyWilson
October 27th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
So there is a warmongering Palinista wing AND a libertarian anti-war Ron Paul wing in this Republican Tea Party? What exactly do they have in common besides an obsessive compulsive hatred of the left? How exactly do these warmongers and and alleged anti-war types get along so well with such an opposing view on such an important topic? Doesn't this tell us that one of the groups is a fraud. Yes. Its the so called 'anti-war' libertarian Tea Party Republicans who vote for the warmongering GOP.
mother of necessity
October 27th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
looters have another kind of appetite, dont they?
GradyWilson
October 27th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Your unprovoked mean spirited personal attack again the poster emsnews not only reinforces the well deserved stereotype of the libertarian as a thin skinned, self righteous, angry, arrogant A**hole but also reveals the truth;
"We do NOT have capitalism in this nation! …. We have fascism!" – screams Mike!
Well the 'SIX OF ONE HALF DOZEN OF THE OTHER' expression certainly applies here. The perfect example of course is the US sponsored fascist coup in Chile which was undertaken in the name of free market capitalism.
Dan
October 27th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Don't kid yourself, Dave–public demonstration is important in multiple ways. It gets people literally active (not sitting in their chairs, clicking and passively viewing), creates networking and exchange of information, and shows the rest of the country (and some of the world abroad) that there really are Americans opposed to the wars. It does not happen over night, but that doesn't mean it's worthless–ask the Vietnamese people whether they would have preferred Americans be silent and not demonstrate during the US aggression there. If even a handful of people can demonstrate at some high-visibility location on a weekly basis in their own home town, it is worth doing.
Ali
October 27th, 2010 at 2:33 pm
Twisted logic? Unravel it. I will be listening. But do not be surprised if you end up exactly where Bush or Obama (America!) is standing. I will not be surprised that even then, you will keep on considering yourself anti war.
As for the possibility that you bring up, I have to say, that it is flawed. The dispute is not about which side of the egg should be broken to get to the inside.
GradyWilson
October 27th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Maybe the good people at United for Peace and Justice see you and Justin as stooges for the warmongering right – pretending that there is an anti-war faction on the right while supporting the ideological foundation of unrestrained free market capitalism and no checks on capital which creates the situation where a small group of rich capitalists own the gov, foreign policy, economic policy, the media, the country?
And still – why aren't YOU GUYS leading YOUR OWN anti-war rallies instead of whining about the Left?
andy
October 27th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
As long as there is no draft the American empire hasn't got too much to worry about on the domestic front.
DavidSpero
October 27th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Justin keeps running this tired line about the Left giving up the antiwar movement because of Obama. In fact, it had run down to a diehard few as far back as 2005, when we realized that nobody was paying attention to street demonstrations. And the Tea Party is not going to help – I've only met a few out of maybe 100 who are remotely against the wars or interested in civil liberties.
DavidSpero
October 27th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
To be fair to Justin, he makes some strong criticisms of the Conservatives as well, so I should have given him a break.
DavidSpero
October 27th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
It's really good to have this discussion. 9/11 should not divide the antiwar movement, but it often does. I know people on both sides think the people on the other side are delusional, but I don't see any reason why people can't work together for peace.
mother
October 27th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
it became necessary to downrate this asshole who doesnt believe in the superiority of
DavidSpero
October 27th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
How is this different than "antiwar" Democrats who vote for Feinstein, Obama, Pelosi et al?
mother
October 27th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
not to mention the fact that if there were tits and ass involved, we'd all be more forgiving.
oh well
October 27th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
the logical thing to do would be to call for a real investigation of 9/11… but the situation has deteriorated to the point that nobody would agree on what "real" is.
is that according to plan?
greg
October 27th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
Ali, you're right.
The minute anyone comes out against the war they're hit with a barrage of "Support our Troops" or Endangering the lives, blah,blah.
Did this during Viet-Nam too but in those days the anti-war youth were facing getting shanghied and sent off to maybe get dead. Now there no draft and no threat of imminent death so the would be protestors stay home, safe from the tasers, batons, tear gas, sound cannons, pain rays, etc.
We lost , that's the bottom line and this hell they've created is going to play itself out.
HappyCamper
October 28th, 2010 at 3:59 am
Actually, you ARE misreading me. Probably my fault. I will try to clarify:
By debunking the official 9/11 fairy tale we WOULD take away the war parties justification for the butchery. However, that doesn´t mean that they actually would have a justification for waging war on Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, even if the official version would be true – which it is not.
Terrorism is a pattern, a tactic, a way of doing "things" – there´s no chance whatsoever to effectively combat terrorists by invading nation states.
Having said that, I do believe (and have collected well documented evidence during the last ten years or so) that actually most of the terror attacks of the last 40 to 50 years, I´d estimate some 80% at least, were in fact state sponsored acts, committed under false flag.
To those interested in at least some backgound to my claims, check out. for example, David DeGraws´ compelling writings:
http://ampedstatus.com/inside-the-global-banking-…
http://ampedstatus.com/the-covert-origins-of-the-…
HappyCamper
October 28th, 2010 at 4:05 am
And, paulBass 79, if I may add, I can only think of one scenario where I would see a justification for waging (back) war: a 100% clear cut case of being attacked and invaded by another nation.
ScuzzaMan
October 28th, 2010 at 4:47 am
Well, I'm still here.
But then I was never a progressivel and I damn sure knew Obama was never a liberal, let alone a progressive, so I didn't fall for the bullshit.
I'm still opposed to violence and always will be.
emsnews
October 28th, 2010 at 6:03 am
Have you ever heard Nader talk? I have known him since 1968. Personally. He has to be the most monotone-boring speaker on this planet. I respect his views and analysis but he is a total catastrophe addressing a crowd of people needing some boosting, some leadership.
The fact that I have been cut out since 1974 is an entirely different story. Right now, I am fighting the organizers of antiwar demonstrations because they want to support illegal aliens! Gads, talk about slitting the movement's throat, that is a real killer.
emsnews
October 28th, 2010 at 6:07 am
We need to force the government to release all the information of Operation Paperclip. I want this badly since my own father was very deeply involved in this matter since he was the actual person who went deep into Germany to get the Nazis out. Since then, a whole crew of these Nazis as well as some Japanese war criminals were inserted at the top of our government's most secret parts to run things. Gads.
HappyCamper
October 28th, 2010 at 8:06 am
pwi, about that "no one listens"-thingy:
“9/11 Cover-up” #1 Search Term on Google"
http://www.infowars.com/911-cover-up-1-search-ter…
And while I´m at it:
"Why 9-11 Truth Has Won – The Coming of the Flood"
http://mwcnews.net/focus/politics/6160-the-coming…
chow
October 28th, 2010 at 8:44 am
I don't know where you're getting your data from but I'm sure it must be from the likes of Huffington post and Obama.
I'm from the blue state of CA and I know majority of people in this State are freeloading loafers waiting for welfare bailout. This is the biggest blue State that gets most of the welfare check. Of course I can only speak for my State for I limited observation of others.
sigvultus
October 28th, 2010 at 11:36 am
I'll tell ya what happened to the movement. Thousands of TV channels. Video games and movies. Rampant consumerism and materialism. Either people know what's going on and just don't care anymore, or they're ignorant and don't care either. There are too many distractions in moderm society, and our education system has become too sanitized and politically correct. And if none of this applies, then you're left with good old fashioned fear: fear of your neighbor's ridicule for being in such a minority, and fear of government and media reprisals. Fear of being told you don't "support the troops". Welcome to fascist America. Where you can talk about peace all you want, but don't speak or act against any war.
mkb29
October 28th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
Raimondo needs to read the UFPJ website and the list discussion that it fosters before he (and Walsh) trash it. And he errs when he said there was not antiwar speakers October 2 on the platform. Harry Bellefonte gave a rousing anti-war speech. This error casts doubt on his honesty and motivations.
jeff_davis
October 29th, 2010 at 10:18 am
"There´s a difference between "thinking" one is correct and KNOWING, by studying the facts in a strictly scientific manner, that a certain narrative is false."
Sorry HC, but I have more "strictly scientific" competence in the dirt under my fingernails than you and the rest of the Truthers have in their entire combined neocortices. You don't know your backside from a hole in the ground. "KNOWING", as you put it in big ol' caps to impress upon us how really really sure you are that your right, still doesn't mean you know a damn thing, except how to drink the Truther Kool-aid and reinforce your hysterical ignorance in the Truther echo chamber. For example, we occasionally hear about the over 1000 members of "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth". Wow! That's impressive. Architects and engineers. They're smart people, right? They surely know their science, right? Except that there are 1.5 million engineers and 233,000 architects in the US alone. Which means that your Truther Architects and engineers represent less than one one-thousandth of these technically competent folks. So excuse me if I conclude that they comprise the idiot fraction of the larger "scientific" community.
In short, it seems you're a "Happy Camper" because ignorance is bliss.
That said, you're probably a decent fellow with a good heart, HC, but as long as you persist in trying to infect others with the Truther disease, you'll have to live with pushback and derision. Sorry.
jeff_davis
October 29th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
I think Justin, like many a Boomer, remembers the 60s, 70's, and the anti-war movement of that era as a sort of archetype of the way things "are". That is, by default, in the minds of the Boomer generation, the way things still are(or ought to be, like their youth, relevance, and political power, now also faded.) But the reality, sadly, is that the Boomer moment is past. We're in a new era with a new reality. Could it be that he new younger generation is not as cohesive, not as activist, not as anti-establishment, and not as threatened (of the draft)? So the anti-war energies of youth are simply unmotivated. Also, they've come of age under the crippling and unrelenting mind-f*ck of neo-right wing media(as in Neocon). Consequently the US anti-war consciousness is small and feeble, while the pro-war forces are robust and dominant.
Only a complete and devastating economic collapse can create the motivation for real change.
If you're a nationalist, this is an unhappy situation. If justice commands your loyalty, then the destruction is prologue to rebirth, and not so bad.
Palin/Lieberman 2012. Speed the rebirth.
USAma Bin Laden
October 31st, 2010 at 3:46 am
What happened to the American "antiwar" movement?
This so-called peace movement was a CONTROLLED OPPOSITION–controlled by the same criminal American state that wages war in the first place.
And let's be blunt.
The American people are a war-loving people to begin with.
America genocides countries around the world from Vietnam to Iraq.. yet these bastards have the nerve to accuse Islam and other nations of being a threat.
America is a nation born in blood, bred in blood, and it will die in blood.
Judgement Day, baby.
Judgement Day.
RED DAVE
November 1st, 2010 at 4:08 pm
One writer, above, mkb29, questions Justin's honesty in reporting about the October 2nd rally in Washington. mkb29 correctly points out that the major,, most important speaker of the day, Harry Belafonte, gave a rousing antiwar speech. Justin is so hell-bent in proving that, these days, the real antiwar movement in on the Right, that real events, history, etc., are all distorted.
He criticized Socialist Action, a Trotskyist group, for supporting the rally: claiming that the rally was purely a get-out-the-votes-for-the-Democrats affair. However, Socialist Action's website reports the even differently.
http://www.socialistaction.org/editors26.htm
The liberals have, indeed, sold out to the Democratic Party. But liberals are not part of the Left. The Left is staunchly against the Democrats and is keeping the antiwar message as alive as possible in these difficult times. And one thing it will not do, in addition to making alliances with the Democrats is make alliances with Republicans as Justin would have it do.