The response to my column on Rand Paul has been generally favorable, much to my surprise: generally people who belong to a political movement tend to rally around their tribal leaders if and when they’re attacked, but apparently libertarians are the exception to this general rule. That’s because they’re better than that. Most of the criticism has come from conservatives, notably Daniel Larison over at The American Conservative.
In a typically dreary polemic, Larison accuses me of employing a double-standard, citing my praise of Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) for coming out against the war in Afghanistan whilst making warlike noises about Iran. Yet Chaffetz is a conservative, not a libertarian: he isn’t making fundraising appeals to libertarians, citing his anti-interventionist credentials. Furthermore, he’s evolving away from the conventional neoconnish approach to foreign policy, which calls for war in practically every instance, and towards a more reasonable position. Rand Paul is evolving in the opposite direction.
Of course, since Larison supports the war in Afghanistan, and refuses to call for an American withdrawal, it’s not exactly surprising that he isn’t all that fond of Chaffetz: one can only note, however, that Larison doesn’t take Chaffetz to task specifically for this, but rather for his stance on Iran, citing “inconsistency.” That Larison is himself guilty of this same lack of coherence, albeit inverted – pro-war in Afghanistan, pro-peace when it comes to Iran – doesn’t seem to bother him in the least. Go figure…
At any rate, I expect more of the son of Ron Paul than of an obscure Republican member of congress with no connections to the organized libertarian movement. Is that so wrong?
I have to say, however, that I regret writing the last line of that column, which was disrespectful and not even true: I would indeed give Rand Paul the time of day, and shouldn’t have let myself get carried away by the polemical momentum of my own arguments. I have nothing but respect for Ron Paul, and that goes for his entire family.
On the other hand, I have absolutely no respect for David Frum, the die-hard neocon former speechwriter for George W. Bush and author of the Bushian “axis of evil” slogan, who recently attacked Larison for being in the same movement as me. The occasion was a Larison piece decrying Frum’s likening of the Rand Paul campaign (and the entire libertarian current in the GOP) to the garbage that washes in with the Staten Island Ferry as it comes ashore. With characteristic old-maidish tsk-tsking, Larison opined,
“If a non-interventionist ever described his hawkish opponents as nothing more than trash and implied that they were an infection that needed to be wiped out, it would not be tolerated for a second. It would be roundly denounced as the vile, disgusting rhetoric that it is, and the reputation of the person responsible would be permanently damaged.”
Frum advises Larison to develop a “thicker skin,” and goes on to write:
“When [paleoconservatives] set to write, they produce some of the most unrestrained vitriol to appear anywhere in the blogosphere. Does Larison not read his own American Conservative magazine and website? Does he ever check in with Ron Paul central, aka LewRockwell.com? … Ever visited any of the Ron Paul message boards? Do names like Karen Kwiatkowski, Alex Jones, and Justin Raimondo stir a recollection in him?”
Alex Jones I’m not all that familiar with, so I can’t tell if he’s as vicious as I can be. As for Karen, she’s always struck me as a fairly straightforward writer, whose articles are not particularly vitriolic: indeed, they seem fairly restrained. As for myself, I happily plead guilty to the charge of being vitriolic when it comes to David Frum and his fellow war enthusiasts – particularly now that Frum has reinvented himself as a “moderate” Republican, whose shtick is getting the liberal media to give him a platform from which he can denounce those awful “extremists” on the right, such as Ron Paul.
This, after all, is a man who was once the Vyshinsky of the neocons: it was Frum who penned a piece for National Review accusing a number of prominent conservatives and libertarians, such as Pat Buchanan and Robert Novak (and some lesser known, such as myself), of “siding with the terrorists” for opposing the Iraq war, and reading them out of the conservative movement. Now he’s turning around and saying that the conservative movement is becoming too “extreme” and “exclusive,” decrying the “purging” of hack politicians like Bob Bennett of Utah.
Frum, the pompous hypocrite, is about as “moderate” as a rattlesnake, reserving his poison for advocates of individual liberty and anyone who opposes his agenda of perpetual war. As co-author of a book with Richard Perle which advocated invading practically every country in the Middle East – and instituting a quasi-dictatorship on the home front in the name of fighting the “war on terrorism” – his “moderate” disguise is about as convincing as that of a wolf out of the Brothers Grimm.
How’s that for “vitriol”?
On to a sunnier topic: I want to thank everyone who made the success of our spring fundraising campaign a success. It was a long and often scary haul, but we made it in the end – thanks to you, our loyal readers and supporters, who came through in the midst of a major recession.
Your support – both financial and moral – is what keeps us going, and keeps me writing. Yes, I know, you don’t always agree with everything that appears in this space – but where else but on this web site can you find such a diversity of opinion in an age where tribal politics trumps dialogue and the “left-right” “red-blue” divide still distorts the national conversation?
The Antiwar.com team is working 24/7 – literally – to bring you the news of the world from an anti-interventionist perspective. We’re keeping watch on the ramparts as the War Party draws closer, sounding the alarm and manning the battlements – making sure that, no matter how “unanimous” the war hysteria of the moment may seem, the voices of reasonable dissent are heard. This is the task we’ve been working at for over a decade now – and your continuing support reassures us that it isn’t entirely a thankless one. For which I can’t thank you enough.
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
In a follow-up comment on the American Conservative web site, Larison accuses me of “misrepresenting” Rand Paul’s position on Iran. This is a serious charge, one that I believe is not buttressed by the YouTube video of Paul the Younger’s colloquy with Bill O’Reilly. Rand Paul is the one who brings up the question of our nuclear first strike policy in the context of the Iranian question, not O’Reilly, and while O’Reilly agrees with him that we should strike a pose of “ambiguity” in this instance, the Fox News neocon drives home the point that Jim Bunning, Rand’s Republican predecessor (and endorser) would opt for an attack if it came to that. Rand’s answer is that he would “not take it off the table.”
So he’s not opposed in principle to attacking Iran – with nuclear weapons, no less! – and it seems likely, from his manner and his now well-established record of caving in to pressure, that he would go along with the program when the bombs start falling on Tehran. Furthermore, he hasn’t called for US withdrawal from Afghanistan, and Pakistan – a position that may gladden Larison’s heart, but makes the rest of us wonder when Ron is going to take Rand out to the woodshed.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Common Fallacies About
Anti-Interventionism – February 21st, 2012 - The Big One Cometh – February 19th, 2012
- Voting Out the War Party? – February 16th, 2012
- The Pentagon’s Lie Machine – February 14th, 2012
- What Now? – February 12th, 2012





Peaceful_Idiot
May 25th, 2010 at 9:22 pm
Alex Jones, I like him. Paul Craig Roberts may have heard of him, heh. I really liked Endgame, it pretty much sums it all up without really getting into, um, you know… 9/11: The Road to Tyranny. wasn't bad though. I like Paul Craig Roberts and agree with him on such things, not so much the details but the behavior towards it. They make me think.
I also like antiwar.com. It makes me think too. Go figure…
But anyway, so is Dr. Ron Paul going to be the Goldwater to Randy Raygun or what?
And look at Mr. Raimondo writing about the Neocons. Neocon is so out of style, "Tea Bagger" is the new Bad Guy.
Repeat after me:
"Teeeee Baaaaaaaaaa-grrrrrr"
And I first saw Mrs. Kwiatkowski in Why We Fight. Awesome.
Grats on your fundraising effort btw.
Tweets that mention Our Vitriol, and Theirs by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com -- Topsy.com
May 25th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Antiwar.com, Ron Simon, tsiegtiez, Pete Drake, Cheryl Jones and others. Cheryl Jones said: Our Vitriol, and Theirs http://bit.ly/9oie0d [...]
tz1
May 26th, 2010 at 4:50 am
Why don't both you and Larison conference call Rand Paul and have a friendly talk and clarify things instead of this "he said that he said…"
There is a site called bloggingheads.tv that seems good for a debate between you and Larison.
John Westbrook
May 26th, 2010 at 5:05 am
If Rand Paul becomes just another "go along to get along" Republican after the Nov. election then let the vitriol flow but since he's in the business to get elected to office by playing the game while not giving his opponents the ammunition to attack him, so be it. Remember the GOP has supported Ron Paul's Democrat and Republican opponents in Texas, I find the lack of GOP party institutional support for Rand a little disconcerting. After all he just embarrassed Mitch McConnell and the GOP establishment terribly.
But IMO he is a better candidiate than his Democratic opponent and I think deserve the benefit of his inexperience showing. He will be a one term Senator if he alienates those that supported him.
Personally I want to see him in office and what he does rather than what he says in his campaign rhetoric. For if he fails , then Ron Paul's Revolution grassroots efforts of non-intervention and fiscal sanity will be destroyed and there will be nothing in the wings to change anything. Libertarianism will become fringe and a joke. If the son of Ron Raul just goes along to get along then the only real alternative will be just revolution as the American Experiment will have failed.
augustus818
May 26th, 2010 at 7:18 am
Justin, I would say that while I agree with Ron and his son philosophically, I think that their strategy of using the State against itself, "infiltrating the mafia" if you will, is inherently contradictory to their ideals and undermines (as this whole MadCow incident shows) them in any case. I would love to see people like the Paul's come up with a reasonable alternative to the State, affecting change from the outside, and letting the State wither away and die on it's knees as it should. As I think it would, that is if people were given an good alternative. Like this fine site and the internet being an alternative to the MSM.
MoT
May 26th, 2010 at 12:29 am
You make a very valid point. How does one enact change from within a cancerous body? A few healthy cells does not equate to a remission of the disease. Better to let it die by telling them once and for all to go screw themselves. Separate yourself, your communities, your states, from the diseased body that is FedGov U.S. If it was good enough for George, Ben and Tom then why isn't it good enough for us today? We're at the Rubicon of either fishing or cutting bait. because debating with these lying bastards in D.C. only buys them more time on your tab! They're not going to change. It's their nature.
demize!
May 26th, 2010 at 7:54 am
Augustus, if I understand Ron Paul's Libertarianism it is essentially "minarchist" rather than "anarchist". In that they tend to belive the State should have a minimal role, such as providing for the common defense. I'm not a Lib so correct me if I'm wrong.
Lloyd G.
May 26th, 2010 at 10:30 am
Justin-
Frum's lumping you with Alex Jones is meant to be an insult. Jones is a bit of a crackpot: He rants about FEMA coffins, neo-Malthusian plans to kill off 90% of the world's population, fluoridated water being a deliberate scheme to make the public stupid, etc. In his favor: His paranoia hasn't started any wars, like crackpot Frums has.
abiman
May 26th, 2010 at 10:51 am
David Frum does not like Karen Kwiatkowski for exposing the infiltration of the Bush Administration by Israeli intelligence and military personnel. David Frum should move to Israel and settle in the West Bank and wait for the rapture.
john
May 26th, 2010 at 11:54 am
If his last name was not Paul he would be viewed as just what he is–another neo-con. Those who love his father are in a state of denial, which might lead them to continue their financial support; but this will only lead to more frustration when Rand enters Congress. Wake up. Forget the last name and pay attention to his actions and words.
Dminor7th
May 26th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
Libertarians have one great thing going for them: principles. Without that there's nothing. Therefore (Ayn) Rand Paul is.. ahem.
Putting J and Jones in the same bag.. now, that's nuts. What do these people do with their time? Clearly they're not studying the ground they pontificate on whatsoever. Or.. there's only one issue to these whores: serving the Military-Industrial-Complex. Afterall, there's plenty (taxpayers') gold in them thar hills! They're all assuming some will slop off the groaning board for them while their pimps are wallowing in it.
jojoos
May 26th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Sorry Lloyd but Alex is a town Cryer and his messages are a warning to the many OBTUSE Americans. US of i is tanking–have U noticed? At least Alex has the balls to expose the 911 attacks as NON/IMPOSSABLY Arab work/planning operations–not like Justin,who ran off the subject with his tail between his legs. We need more likes of Alex Jones to clean up the Kosher cess pool in Washington make-up.
Notice Lloyd G., I did not use the phonie term Neocons,which Justin likes to deceive his readers.
By the way, David Frumm Canada, stole the Axis of Evil term from Roosevelt speech –Germany Italy Japan :^/
Ira Epstein
May 26th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
I do not understand why people like Frum and other persons of his ilk who cheerleaded a war of aggression against the people of Iraq based upon nothing but lies think they deserve a respectful hearing? Hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi men, women, and children died and thousands and thousands more were made refugees as a result of a war Frum and his Neocon cohorts shamefully pimped. Frum and other media scumbags of his type deserve everything you dish out to them plus more. I as so glad you treat them with the disrespect and scorn they so richly deserve. In a sense you are living up to your name-Justin.
Peaceful_Idiot
May 26th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
You'd think they would have learned their lesson watching Obama and know better… All the clues were there from the beginning in Obama's case too.
Jeremiah
May 26th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
When a poster on his blog asked Daniel Larison to explain Paul the Lesser's statement of fealty to Israel, the fellow talked in circles—saying that the letter was unfortunate, but that he understood how someone dedicated to helping the US mind its own business could INADVERTENTLY STUMBLE into such saying such unfortunate things:
"The statement ignores Israel’s status as a U.S. client and major recipient of foreign and military aid, and I think he is taking a very unfortunate position, but I do see how someone intent on not meddling in other states’ affairs could reach such a position. Unfortunately this call for U.S. non-interference in Israeli affairs does not permit the U.S. to restrain Israel from acting foolishly."
Non-interference? Not only does Rand Paul pointedly avoid mentioning the topic of US aid to the regime in Tel Aviv, but he unequivocally and fulsomely celebrates the "special relationship" between Israel and the US—a tacit endorsement of the status quo if I ever heard one. And as far as restraining "Israel from acting foolishly": in the letter in question, Rand Paul APPLAUDS Israel for its late atrocities in Lebanon and Gaza, and gushingly crowns the goons at the forefront of these very atrocities against UNARMED and UNDER-ARMED foes as among "the bravest, most elite military forces in the world."
So much for Paul the Lesser. And so much for the principle of good order—and clear thought.
Jeremiah
May 26th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Oh, and lest we forget (and, really, how could we?): Rand Paul—in this letter and elsewhere—is dutifully towing the militant Zionist line on Iran. . . a move which even Larison admits is a rotten idea.
Ike Hall
May 26th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
I'd rather be a Teabagger than a Teabaggee.
J. Smith
May 26th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
There's only one way. Stop paying taxes you don't owe.
dave742
May 26th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
There are other issuea with Rand Paul besides the most recent. One issue is that he is a liar. On CNN Rand said:
“People also see the reports from England where there is a breast cancer drug called Herceptin that blocks the estrogen receptors. It’s not available in England because it’s too expensive.”
This is a lie. Herceptin has been available in England since 2002:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-an…
In June, 2006, Herceptin was approved for early stage breast cancer, 5 months before it was approved in the US;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5058952.stm
See full discussion here:
http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-08-07/ron-paul-and-ra…
MoT
May 26th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
You are correct. Ultimately it's the money that talks. The BS walks.
Amos أسامة بن Farooqi
May 26th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Ron Paul isn't really in Congress to change it, but rather to educate others. His speeches on the House floor have exposed many people to the message of a non-interventionist foreign policy and has advanced the libertarian cause. One man can't change anything in government, but he can inspire many others to do it.
Fred B.
May 26th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
In a way, I can understand that a certain level of arse-kissing of the Israel lobby is required to have a sniff at getting elected without bearing the full brunt of demonization by the political and media establishment. Ron Paul does his by saying Israel might be better off without U.S. interference – meaning at the same time that part of that interference is U.S. foreign aid, which on principle Ron Paul believes Israel should do without. If Rand Paul believes the same, all his arse-kissing will have been for not. For the Israel-firsters, letting Israel do what it wants AND supplying billions in foreign aid is the ONLY right thing to do.
donna
May 26th, 2010 at 9:49 pm
Apparently the libertarians in Kentucky are disgusted with Rand Paul and claiming that he's not even a libertarian:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/26/kentucky…
Goldhoarder
May 26th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Judge a man by his actions. Not his words. Too early to tell yet. All you can say about Rand is you dont like the wind blowing through his vocal cords. He was a doctor not s politician so he has no track record in politics. Obama had a very long track record as a politician begore his election so everyone should have known they were getting a boilerplate politician
PainfullyAware
May 26th, 2010 at 10:34 pm
"Available" and "Allowed/Payed For By The Socialized Medical System" may have something to do with the nuance.
The World Is Much More Grey Than Black Or White.
PainfullyAware
May 26th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
If you are using the Huffington Post as a Gage you will be subjected to "Subjective Emotionality" and thus may misinterpret actuality. Very little logic is used by many authors at that publication. Filter for "Action And Event" if you choose to roam that site; Most of it is "Literary Prose".
Divided We Fall.
Tom, WI
May 27th, 2010 at 4:41 am
Today there is a headline under Afghanistan about a British soldier killed in Helmand but AntiWar continues to ignore US combat deaths in Helmand. 15 US combat deaths in Helmand since May 1 including the latest on Monday the 24th as reported by the DOD. The total US combat deaths in Afghanistan reached 30 today. Why does Raimondo and Anti War continue to ignore these vital statistics?
CRiley
May 27th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
I recommend Prisonplanet.com, for more info on Alex Jones, Mr. Raimondo.