Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite
The FBI, the left, and the war on "extremism"
Every government lives in fear of its own citizens. The fear waxes and wanes, as the tides of public opinion and economic ups and downs crest and wash over the political landscape. In good times, the fear is somewhat subtle: discontent, albeit ever-present, is masked by prosperity and contained; in bad times, the fear overflows into the everyday life of the citizenry, which is viewed with the utmost suspicion by the ruling elite. In Washington, they’re wondering: how long will they put up with it?
Today, the answer to that question is: not much longer – and the fear is manifest in the latest campaign against "extremism," which is being touted by the "mainstream" media, the authorities, and the professional "extremist"-hunters who work in tandem with both. To give you the flavor of the witch-hunting atmosphere being whipped up by the media-FBI complex, get a load of Rachel Maddow, the "liberal" MSNBC commentator, last Thursday night. After running a videotaped interview with anti-abortion militant Scott Roeder – recently sentenced to life in prison for the murder of an abortion doctor – in which Roeder expressed support for the "sovereignist" doctrine that the federal government has no right to institute drivers’ licenses, she averred:
"So, yes, so you can see Roeder as an anti-abortion extremist. You can also identify anti-abortion extremism as one branch of the broader movement of violent, militant, anti-government extremism in this country. We associate that movement with the early and mid-’90s, which is when that tape of Scott Roeder that you just saw was filmed. But just in the last 18 months since President Obama took office, a white supremacist shot and killed a security guard in an attack on the Holocaust Museum in Washington. An anti-tax extremist flew a plane into a building in Texas that housed an IRS office. He killed an IRS worker. Nine suspected militia members [were] arrested for allegedly plotting an attack on police officers as part of a war they wanted to wage against the United States government. A Tennessee white supremacist convicted of plotting to kill President Obama near the end of the presidential campaign in ’08.
"And, of course, there’s Scott Roeder killing Dr. George Tiller.
"And, of course, there’s the wave of threats and property damage against members of Congress after the health reform bill passed.
"Is it helpful to find the connections between these disparate acts, to understand what American extremism is now? Or are these all individual crazy people with no connection to politics, no connection to each other, no connection to a broader movement or to the broader country at large? What’s the better way to understand this and is this stuff going to stop? Joining us now is Eugene Robinson…"
One can easily guess Robinson’s answer to Maddow’s largely rhetorical question, but let’s rewind just a bit, and note the smearing methodology employed here: the classic amalgam. Grouped together in one intellectual package deal are:
- "antigovernment" activists
- white supremacists out to kill the President,
- antiabortion fanatics out to kill abortionists,
- and crazed anti-Semites out to attack the Holocaust Museum.
One of these things is not like the others, and Maddow – no dummy – knows it.
That’s why the plaintive tone is taken – "Is it helpful?" – when posing the question of whether this is a unitary movement that needs to be infiltrated by law enforcement and its members arrested and jailed. The whole idea is to discredit "antigovernment" (i.e. pro-liberty) movements and politicians in the mainstream by associating them with hate and – most importantly – violence, or the threat of it.
How quickly these lefties forget. Intoxicated by power and by the prospect of smashing their political enemies using the mailed fist of the State, modern "liberals" of the Maddowist persuasion either don’t know or don’t want to be reminded of how J. Edgar Hoover’s FBI was used as a political weapon of mass destruction by the Nixon administration to crush political dissidents of the left during the 1960s and 70s. White leftists and black nationalists were infiltrated, disrupted, set up, and jailed – the government used agents provocateurs to initiate violence, and then moved to repress these movements, jailing the leaders, and using massive force against antiwar demonstrators: remember Kent State?
The FBI’s massive campaign of disruption was known as "COINTELPRO," and the revelations of how extensive were the government’s efforts to infiltrate leftist and black groups are generally considered shocking in retrospect. For example, at the height of the antiwar movement, at least a third of the members of the Socialist Workers Party (SWP), at the time the main Trotskyist group in the US – and a key organizer of the mass protests – were police agents, either FBI or paid informants. These agents actively encouraged violence, planted "evidence," and set up radicals for government repression. The same tactics, and worse, were used against the Black Panther Party, which, in a gesture unconsciously mimicked by today’s right-wing populists, once showed up on the steps of a Sacramento courthouse armed with shotguns and posed for the cameras.
Paid informants spying on the legal activities of American citizens, agent provocateurs, and outright dirty tricks (such as disseminating printed materials meant to cause division and provoke violence) – it was an altogether shameful chapter in the history of American law enforcement, one that nearly everyone but the most unrepentant neocons agree shouldn’t be repeated – and yet here is Ms. Maddow, an alleged "liberal," celebrating its rebirth.
The first time as tragedy, the second as farce – and the latter surely describes the legal and political circumstances surrounding the alleged "extremist" threat coming from the "far right." At least back in the sixties, the government tried to hide its extensive infiltration and disruption of far-left groups, probably due to the fact that these activities were of dubious legality. These days, the Feds don’t bother with such niceties: indeed, they openly proclaim the "right" to do it, as well as the "right" to eavesdrop on the private communications of American citizens. In the post-9/11 era, even "liberal" administrations uphold – and defend in court – those provisions in the "PATRIOT" Act that give free rein to Big Brother (or, in this case, Big Sis).
Although we don’t know all the details yet, it looks like the members of the Hutaree "militia" – basically a single family and a few friends – had been infiltrated by an undercover FBI agent and a "cooperating witness," as court documents put it, and targeted as part of the administration’s new war on "domestic terrorism," embodied by the supposedly rising tide of militia groups forming (or re-forming) across the country. The politics of this campaign are simple: link the "fringe" to the more mainstream "tea party" movement, and, ultimately, the Republican party – and 2012 becomes a replay of 1964, in which Lyndon Baines Johnson crushed Barry Goldwater amid a storm of publicity about the "threat" posed by the minuscule and easily ridiculed John Birch Society.
Johnson, you’ll recall, was at the time engaged in two wars: the "war on poverty," and the war in Vietnam. Obama has launched a similar two-pronged effort, albeit on a much larger scale – and the scare campaign he, his Justice Department, and his media amen corner are whipping up is the weapon of choice in their war on "right-wing extremism."
It’s easy to dismiss the hysteria of the chattering classes over the "tea party" phenomenon as self-interested hyperbole: a few people show up to usually deserted congressional town hall meetings and raise their voices above a whisper and the sissified liberals are quaking in their boots, lisping that those awful bullies are about to beat them up. However, there is a sinister aspect to all this violence-baiting, as well as a comic one. For the central point of all the pro-FBI, pro-government, anti-"extremist" propaganda blaring from MSNBC and other news outlets is to convince us that speech leads to violence – and that, indeed, certain forms of political speech – "antigovernment" in nature – are inherently violent.
The irony of this is that these people are cheerleaders for the biggest most powerful purveyor of violence on earth, the US federal government. All states are founded on violence, of course, and maintained in power by the continual threat of it, and yet the US government enjoys a special status in this regard, with more firepower at its command – and the inclination to use it – than any previous empire in human history. We are talking about a government currently waging two open wars and one "secret" one, abroad – systematically murdering many thousands – and actively threatening yet another.
The tiny and powerless Hutaree "militia" has about as much chance of overthrowing this Leviathan as a flea. Yet they are charged with "sedition." This would be a joke if it weren’t such a danger to what’s left of our civil liberties.
We already know the FBI infiltrated the group, and the likelihood that they were set up gets stronger if one looks at the details of similar incidents, such as the recent "plot" to blow up New York City synagogues. This scheme – which the FBI took credit for stopping – was cooked up entirely by a government infiltrator who convinced, cajoled, and practically intimidated his fellow conspirators into cooperating. The Feds then stepped in to save the day.
This is a scenario that has played out in many of the recent incidents of "extremist" violence: the government and its agents are the source of the violence. As in the heyday of the "New Left," you can tell someone’s a cop when they constantly talk about how cool it is to literally "smash the State."
Governments, all governments everywhere, whether they be of the "left" or the "right," hate populist movements, and do everything in their power to discredit and crush them, simply because they can’t control them – and because they hate and fear their own people. Popular upsurges of outraged citizens are a symptom that the "good governance" practiced by our rulers isn’t so good after all – except for those who profit from the system, in pelf, power, and prestige. As our rulers go about their business of plundering our pocketbooks at home and building an empire abroad, there’s always that worrying image of peasants with pitchforks one day marching on the castle. Every ruling elite lives in fear of it – because when those torches light up the night they know the jig is up.
The partisans of this administration, and those who consider themselves "liberals" of the old school, would do well to ask themselves if they really want a McCarthyite harpy like Rachel Maddow as their spokeswoman and exemplar. Do they want to see the FBI infiltrating political groups and provoking violence? Do they think COINTELPRO wasn’t wrong in principle – only that it was applied to the wrong groups? Do they really want the next Republican administration empowered to target and infiltrate left-wing organizations just as they did in a previous era?
One doesn’t have to agree with the views of the targeted groups and individuals to realize the danger posed by this campaign of political and legal intimidation. The idea that the government has the right to infiltrate and disrupt the legal political activities of American citizens is outrageous, and needs to be fought tooth and nail by civil libertarians of all persuasions and ‘isms. In England, where political speech is not protected, we see the dark future planned for us by American "progressives": expressions of opinion that are deemed a "threat to public order" are forbidden, and under this general rubric comes any speech that violates the fast-proliferating rules of political correctness. The Brits, always a few years ahead of us in terms of the latest repressive measures, are pointing the way "forward" – and that’s "progress" for you.
A particularly egregious case in which the government is trying to semi-criminalize "anti-government" speech is the announcement by something called the "Guardians of the Republics" that thirty US governors must resign or else face "removal." The Department of Homeland Security immediately leaped to the defense of these poor beleaguered governors, both Democrats and Republicans, and issued an "intelligence note" to local authorities warning “law enforcement should be aware that this could be interpreted as a justification for violence or other criminal actions." Further steps in this road to revolution include “establishing bogus courts, calling of ‘de jure’ grand juries, and issuing so-called ‘legal orders’ to gain control of the state,” the note said.
Is a group of completely powerless and marginal characters, who believe the federal government has no legal authority, and who argue their case in endless "legal briefs" proving the income tax was never really passed, really giving DHS and thirty governors the frights? If so, that says more about the moral and political panic of our elites than it does about the alleged "threat" from these Walter Mittys-of-the-far-right.
In the post-9/11 era, the temptation to brand your political opponents "terrorists" appears to be overwhelming: both the right and the left have succumbed to it, and shamelessly employed such rhetoric for political gain. This is a deadly danger to democracy and must be repudiated and fought to the bitter end. The Hutaree "militia" and the other alleged "extremists" are a pretext for a crackdown on political dissent, and the Richard Nixons of this world are not alone in their propensity for repression. The ideological component of this anti-"extremist" campaign is a new form of McCarthyism, the McCarthyism of the left, which labels anything deemed "antigovernment" as close to seditious, and employs the same methods as J. Edgar Hoover and the "red squads" of the past. I’m surprised that Ms. Maddow, whose show I used to watch faithfully, has capitalized on this odious trend: she should rethink the whole concept of "extremism," and this linkage of violence to "antigovernment" heresy, and cut out the witch-hunting.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Edward Snowden vs. the Sovietization of America – June 18th, 2013
- A Note to My Readers – June 16th, 2013
- Datagate and the Death of American Liberalism – June 13th, 2013
- Smear Brigade Goes After Snowden – June 11th, 2013
- Edward Snowden, American Hero – June 9th, 2013





Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite | Same Old Change
April 4th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
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uberVU - social comments
April 4th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
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This post was mentioned on Twitter by Antiwarcom: Antiwar.com Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite: Every government lives in fear of its own citizens. The fear waxes and wan… http://bit.ly/bdqv8r…
MoT
April 5th, 2010 at 9:43 am
Thanks for writing about what so many have taken notice of. It seems the Feds, and their enablers in the media, never tire of the dirty tricks from Ye Olde Provocateurs Playbook.. Why shouldn't they when its worked so well in the past.
Lloyd G.
April 5th, 2010 at 9:53 am
From a letter I wrote to Rep. Dennis Kucinich, after his health care vote fliperoo:
In case you haven’t noticed, Mr. Kucinich, the current president, the man whose “legitimacy” you hope to preserve, is expanding Bush’s illegal wars into Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and even Colombia. There has been no congressional authorization for these illegal acts, either. Obama has also pledged to give the military and intelligence services free reign when it comes to their treatment of “detainees” (the Obama administration, consistent with the preceding administration, refuses to call prisoners taken in this war “prisoners of war,” because prisoners of war have rights under the Geneva Convention). And (last but not least) Obama just pushed through a reauthorization of the PATRIOT Act (in addition to defending warrantless wiretapping of American citizens). In other words, Obama is doing all the same things that you thought warranted impeachment proceedings for Bush. But, when it comes to Obama, you throw away your integrity to defend him.
Lloyd G.
April 5th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Here's an example of how unhinged the left has gotten:
http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keep…
In the Bush years when soldiers refused to deploy to war, they became instant heroes to the left. Now soldiers who pledge to not obey unconstitutional orders are guilty of 'treason'. Reading some of the comments after the story I'm reminded of FreeRebuplic.com in its heyday.
GradyWilson
April 5th, 2010 at 11:13 am
"…..a few people show up to usually deserted congressional town hall meetings and raise their voices above a whisper and the sissified liberals are quaking in their boots, lisping that those awful bullies are about to beat them up…."
this how the decietful Raimondo describes his beloved TeaBaggers. This column was pathetic. Maddow as a McCarthyite simply for listing the far right acts of violence committed. Raimondo you are a pathetic propagandists for the warmongering Tea Partiers of the GOP.
Linkz
April 5th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Getting sick of these guilty by association tactics. Its a very dangerous thing, even when the fbi has its hands dipped in it. All we can do is stand strong and do things peacefully no matter how hard they try to demonize us.
GradyWilson
April 5th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
what do you mean by "us" – the Tea Party is part of the warmongering GOP not the non-interventionist Libertarians. Libertarians, especially Raimondo's, support of the GOP/TeaParty exposes many Libertarians as non-interventionist frauds. Like their leader, Ron Paul, their greatest affection is to the warmongering GOP not non-intervention. Every time I see an advertisment by Sarah Palin on this site it reinforces this. Why would a warmonger like Palin advertise on an 'alleged' anti-war site? Something's not right.
john
April 5th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Whatever your feelings it it is a big hypocrisy that these Tea Baggers ,who make such contradictory threats as warning the government to keep away from their Medicare , the same Bush/Cheney groupies who loved the imperial presidency when they were in power, now find government so intrusive. In fact I think it would be great if Obama had them rounded up sent to Guatanamo, and dunked them by waterboarding. They are typical Republicans who only condemn government power when they are not the ones in the majority. I have no sympthy for them
Miles Gloriosus
April 5th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Wow. Putting people on trial for sedition????
Bills of attainder can't be far behind.
Max Shields
April 5th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
There is a larger point here and you appear to be missing it. The flip side of Bush is Obama and the legacy reaches back to the 60s with a noted milestone of Reagan. Calling, as some pols and media do, domestic dissension extremism and terrorism should compel a thoughtful moment of "what's going on here?". Sure Paul is to the Repub what Kucinich is to the Dems.
Those on the "left" who are mad as hell at Obama (whether or not they ever supported his run) have been marginalized per the usual brush of "extreme left" while the arguments circle, as usual, around the centers of power the duopoly maintain. Fox and MSNBC are faux discussions that may or may not play to the power's need to neutralize. And it generally works.
Phil Corkey
April 5th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Since Obama got elected, I have noticed that Rachel has gotten more manly looking and made a classic "heel turn" faster than you can say "Rick Flair".
During the transition between GWB and Obama, she began to start speaking out of both sides of her mouth but is making the more raducal left hand turn. I believe almost all these commentators have "handlers" who, if they ignore them, will wind up unemployed, or somewhere in Media land where they have no audience or impact. Rachel is answering the call as good as any two-faced professional wrestler like Flair.
MvGuy
April 5th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Well, well…well..! The Maddow/Robinson team sure hit a raw nerve.. Though Justin's complaint against Maddow is largley lost on ME… Isn't this HER conspiracy theory..?? I would do my part to analyze the alleged provocations being perpetrated by the thought police and their denizens…. if the war party would only cut back on the number of other peoples children being slaughtered for no or dubious reasons… Because I do not do television, I have almost NO familiarity with Maddow. Is this an isolated incident or the title of her new hit rap.?? The snippets of her hectoring that I have seen online appear to me somewhat justified .if not right on.. I suppose it it the stridency of the tone that puts me off in this matter, Isn't she one of us..?? I see Z.I.R. is fulminating .. Why don't we call a truce and send in a negotiating team to inquire into these mutterings.. Perhaps a calmer tone and proffering a few constructive suggestions could lead to a more discrete dialog on both sides.. Aren't most of those Maddow cites examples of an uncivil tone to worse??
Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite | NWOTruth
April 5th, 2010 at 7:12 am
[...] Antiwar | Justin Raimondo, | April 05, 2010 Last 5 posts in Corporate MediaRatings Fall on Newscasts at 2 Networks – April 2nd, 2010"Reporting" on Iran should seem familiar – March 31st, 2010CNN Attempt To Portray Patriots As Terrorists Backfires, Segment Fails To Air – March 30th, 2010US media omission: Iran calls for global nuclear disarmament – February 14th, 2010Struggling media will need government help: US congressman – December 2nd, 2009Last 5 posts in Fear MongeringKristol: ‘Better’ for US to attack Iran than if Israel did – April 5th, 2010"Reporting" on Iran should seem familiar – March 31st, 2010CIA: Iran capable of producing nukes – March 30th, 2010CNN Attempt To Portray Patriots As Terrorists Backfires, Segment Fails To Air – March 30th, 2010Terrorists Could Use Explosives in Breast Implants to Crash Planes, Experts Warn – March 26th, 2010Last 5 posts in Propaganda"Reporting" on Iran should seem familiar – March 31st, 2010CIA: Iran capable of producing nukes – March 30th, 2010CNN Attempt To Portray Patriots As Terrorists Backfires, Segment Fails To Air – March 30th, 2010CIA paper reveals plans to manipulate European opinion on Afghanistan – March 26th, 2010Terrorists Could Use Explosives in Breast Implants to Crash Planes, Experts Warn – March 26th, 2010 [...]
Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite « USA in Exile
April 5th, 2010 at 7:14 am
[...] Every government lives in fear of its own citizens. The fear waxes and wanes, as the tides of public opinion and economic ups and downs crest and wash over the political landscape. In good times, the fear is somewhat subtle: discontent, albeit ever-present, is masked by prosperity and contained; in bad times, the fear overflows into the everyday life of the citizenry, which is viewed with the utmost suspicion by the ruling elite. In Washington, they’re wondering: how long will they put up with it? READ IT HERE [...]
tippycanoe
April 5th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Funny how Maddow and the Left quickly forget what might be considered "hate speech" (by their own definition), FROM the Left during the Bush administration.
Here's a brilliant example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6b1VOAATNk
http://brain-terminal.com/posts/2010/03/31/a-trip…
Linkz
April 5th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Way to support that right-left paradigm. Why is it that people like you assume that only republicans are in the tea parties? You do know the idea was started by libertarians and other grass roots organizations, but hey thanks for joining in on the cointelpro and trying to place the blame completely on the right, looks like msnbc has a job waiting for you.
BVit
April 5th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
"Governments, all governments everywhere, whether they be of the "left" or the "right," hate populist movements, and do everything in their power to discredit and crush them, simply because they can’t control them – and because they hate and fear their own people."
It's been known all throughout history that tyrants worst fear is insubordination. The intelligent move is for the government to stop being tyrants and obey the constitution, but they will not do that any more than they could have tried more intelligent ways to avoid the original civil war.
Hacklheber
April 5th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
"The politics of this campaign are simple: link the "fringe" to the more mainstream "tea party" movement, and, ultimately, the Republican party"
…also to someone called "Ron Paul". Apparently being linked to "Ron Paul" somehow marks you as free game for progressive/liberal opprobium and inclusion on lists of "people we don't talk with". It's all very mysterious.
Larry
April 5th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
Dissent was patriotic…Under Bush
Now not so much..
greendaworld
April 5th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Justin:
Max Shields and Eppie's comments are correct and spot on. Neo-con/Neo-liberal, Republican/Democrat, Fox/Msnbc, are all two sides of the same coin. Rachel Maddow is a tool of the Neo-liberal Democrat Party Obama Administration. Fox is the propaganda tool of the Neo-con Republican party. It's really not that complicated.
You keep making the mistake of confusing progressives with liberals. We are not the same. I know it can be confusing, because liberals like to call themselves progressives, but I thought you were smarter than that. Real progressives have more in common with libertarians than we do with Democrats. Stop watching Rachel and start reading Glenn Greenwald.
MoT
April 5th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
Very good points. When the people being "oppressed" or killed are simple poor folk, as in Rwanda, you could hear a pin drop for all the noise liberals raised. Bring forth upper middle class women forced to were headresses and suddenly it's Hell on earth and their oppressors need "killin". They don't really give a shit for anyone unless it encroaches upon their narcissistic "feelings".
BuelahMan
April 5th, 2010 at 5:04 pm
Grady,
Are you a lesbian? That would explain the total inability to see what is glaringly obvious. You must be in love. Get 'em, Girl!
Lloyd G.
April 5th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
I can only imagine how nuanced the Left's defense of free speech and academic freedom would be if a 'right-wing' college professor announced that the IRS employee who died in Austin a couple weeks ago was a "little Eichmann," a la Ward Churchill.
Lloyd G.
April 5th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
The problem is: It's difficult to know who the "real progressives" are when, for instance, members of the House Progressive Caucus all sign a pledge to not vote for Obama's defense budget (the biggest defense budget in history, by the way), only to vote for it a few weeks later because "Nancy Pelosi yelled at us."
ReasonAndJest.com » The Left’s New Love For Government Authority
April 5th, 2010 at 10:57 am
[...] Raimondo exposes Rachel Madcow’s new love for the FBI and our beloved government’s cracking down on “anti-government types.” ….It’s [...]
Tom Mauel, WI
April 5th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Two more soldiers killed in Helmand province. A 19 year old and a 25 year old.
This is the news that will weaken the war machine.
anti_republocrat
April 5th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Justin, I've been a fan of yours ever since I found antiwar.com, but you're way off base here. You say Maddow is trying to conflate right wing violence with '"antigovernment" activists,' and political speech. But nowhere in your quotation of her does she use the word "activists," nor does she ever mention "Tea Party" or "libertarian." It's quite clear she's talking about violence, threats of violence and incitement to violence. And yes, when John Boehner says a fellow Congressman is a "dead man when he returns to his district", or some such stupid remark, he's contributing to the problem. It's protected speech, and I've never heard anyone on MSNBC advocate changing that. But they want voters to hold these jerks accountable, and you should too.
I am as frustrated as you that Maddow and Olbermann have not held Obama to account as much as I would like them to. But they haven't been totally uncritical, and Maddow has had Ron Paul on her show several times without trying to set him up or shout him down or belittle him.
Your points about FBI infiltration and agents provocateur are well taken. It could well be the Hutaree were set up. We don't know, do we? It could well be that's why Maddow used the term "allegedly". What I don't understand is why neither she nor you have asked why the blogger in Tennessee who's been telling people to throw bricks through windows etc hasn't been arrested for incitement to riot, especially after the incident where gas lines were cut. They arrest people who peacefully place coffins in front of the White House, but nothing happens to people who assault Congressmen by spitting on them. This garbage has got to stop, and you need to stop justifying it. These people are not libertarians. They are thugs.
If you want to beat up on some liberal jerk, why don't you go after Chris Matthews. A few weeks ago he had the Oathkeepers organizer on. It was a setup. He kept attacking him for violence and wouldn't let him get a word out in defense. As far as I can tell, the Oathkeepers are simply saying they will refuse to obey illegal orders; nothing violent about it. I think they're about 8 years late, but hey, better late than never. It was Russian citizen soldiers refusing to open fire on fellow Muscovites after the coup that removed Gorbachev that consummated the fall of the Evil Empire.
You are being far more divisive than either Maddow or Olbermann. You're attacking those furthest to the "left" radicals rather than a jerk liberal like Matthews.
Paul Stokes
April 5th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
Rachel Madow, "McCarthyite harpy?"
Has Raimondo gone off the deep end? This article is so over the top, that I hardly recognize Raimondo's usually inciteful remarks.
Cleaning up the Conspiracy Mongrels | Sex+Metropolis
April 5th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
[...] Fox News ratting out Jones as a “Radical”, MSNBC has been caught red handed doing the same thing. Justin Raimondo of antiwar.com, who writes, …the fear is manifest in [...]
April 5, 2010 « Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?
April 5th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
[...] http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/04/04/rachel-maddow-mccarthyite/ [...]
Heathcliff_Maw
April 5th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
A bill of attainder was passed against ACORN last year because it dared to register poor people to vote. The excuse used was a completely misleading, heavily edited video that implied ACORN workers were giving advice to a pimp on how to cheat on his taxes. Reviews of the source footage by attorneys general in New York and California showed that ACORN had actually done nothing wrong.
epppie
April 5th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Raimondo, this article is mostly on the money, but you continue to miss a key distinction. LIBERALS ARE NOT LEFTIES!!! Liberalism is a 19th century political philosophy created by the upper middle class to protect its economic interests. It is the same today. If you get this, you will understand what has happened to the Democratic Party as it changed from a progressive party into a liberal party. Liberals care about their elitist class affiliation and their perceived upper middle class interests. That's all. They do like charity. They enjoy throwing coins to the rabble. That doesn't make them lefties. They care about civil rights when they affect their class.
If you get this, many political mysteries can be easily understood. For example, why do liberals care about oppression in Iran, but not about oppression in Egypt? Well that's because in Egypt, poor people are oppressed, but in Iran, the upper middle class is oppressed. Keep applying this analysis and you'll see that it explains a lot.
It's a real insult to lefties that they get confused with liberals.
ZionismIsRacism
April 5th, 2010 at 10:54 pm
another tribalist sheep stuck in the false left/right paradigm playing the race card, how predictable. seriously the only thing you obama kool aid drinkers have left anymore is "you just hate him cuz hes black and you're a KKK bigot" seriously its getting even older than all criticisms of israel being called "anti-semitism" when you can't attack the message you revert to juvenile ad-hominem attacks. You know there has been no positive, relevant change between obombthem and dubya (for the better anyway) if anything obama has been worse in his first year than dub over at least one of his two terms.
3 days until he was a war criminal (illegal drone bombing of innocent civilians at a country we aren't technically at war with)
he has stepped up those drone attacks as well, more chicken hawk chickensh*t arm chair generals.
he has extended the grossly unconstitutional privacy destroying patriot act (and dont give me that old tired cannard if i have nothing to hide i shouldnt worry, your beloved "tea-baggers" (seriously are you 5? grow up!) used this EXACT same arguments when you probably decried the patriot act when bush was in power.
he is going to force us at gunpoint to buy overpriced insurance, for less coverage or face fines and jailtime. of course theres the whole the "rich" subsidizing the "poor" but that sounds an awful like like socialism doesn't it?
ZionismIsRacism
April 5th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
pot, kettle, black.
Heathcliff_Maw
April 6th, 2010 at 1:37 am
Liberalism is an 18th century philosophy meant to promote upward mobility, the rational distribution of resources and nonviolent changes in the status quo. Early liberal philosophers are John Locke and Adam Smith.
Where in the world did you get your ideas about how liberals think about oppression in Iran and Egypt? I am a liberal who developed his own philosophy of non-intervention while a college student in the late 1970's. I later was surprised to learn that there were others–including a wing of the Republican party during the early 20th century–that shared that philosophy. Feeling any cognitive dissonance about now?
You can continue to construct liberal straw men and to overly simplify the world into narrow little boxes, but you'd just be fooling yourself. The other approach would be to understand the world as an intellectually complex and messy place, and deal with arguments on their merits as they are presented.
Heathcliff_Maw
April 5th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Dear Justin, in the eight years that I have read your column, never have I been so disappointed in you. You have completely misunderstood Maddow's argument and intent. It is not to support government suppression of dissent–and she has frequently reiterated her support for free speech. It is to expose the Republican party's cynicism, dishonesty and fear mongering that results in Americans violently turning against each other. They, much more than the Democrats (and I am a nonpartisan), are the pigs on the animal farm manipulating the sheep for their own selfish ends.
In 2004, the Republicans (and by that, I mean the politicians, their political consultants and their media servants) used same-sex marriage as a wedge issue. According the FBI, there was a surge in hate crimes against homosexuals in 2004-05. In 2006, the wedge issue was illegal immigration. That led to a surge in hate crimes against Hispanics. Hate crimes against gays surged again in 2008 as the fear mongering over same-sex marriage returned.
Last year, people showed up at town halls brandishing GUNS and making threats, not merely speaking above a whisper. And what had those kooks so riled up? It was a propaganda campaign by those same Republicans that featured lies about death panels and a "government takeover" of health care reform and other outrageous and totally false claims.
A little about me so that you know where I'm coming from. In recent years I have wondered whether the time might come when citizens had to defend themselves against an authoritarian government that imposed martial law. When I heard about the Oath Keepers, I immediately wondered if it were a nonpartisan group that I could support. I lost interest in them when they never responded to my email inquiry about whether they supported sodiers' refusals to deploy to Iraq. I now suspect they are deluded Republican voters who are suddenly worried about Big Brother because Obama the "socialist" is in charge.
Have you ever spoken to a militia member? I doubt it. Several months before the Murrah Building bombing in Oklahoma City, I was sitting at a bar when such a character began telling us about the nuclear armed, black helicopters from East Germany (in 1994!) that entered the country from the mouth of the Mississippi during the last Mardi Gras. I thought he might be a bona fide paranoid schizophrenic, but I'm not a shrink.
I heard more of those buffoons on television in the wake of the OKC bombing. They actually testified before Congress that the federal government had machines that could create tornadoes, and that was the reason the Midwest had more tornadoes than usual that year.
These militias that you laud as pro-liberty are actually fascist, and that is not hyperbole. They are ignorant, gullible, mentally unstable, potentially violent dolts with massive persecution complexes.
Calling Maddow a McCarthyite is hyperbole that diminishes your credibility, but at least you stopped short of calling her Hitler. Which brings me to the tea party.
The tea party may have started out as a genuine grassroots movement with some sort of coherent message and philosophy, but it was quickly co-opted by the professional politicians in the GOP. It is now an amalgam of frightened, misinformed, discontented fools who are the GOP's useful idiots. Where were they when it was revealed that Bush was using the NSA to spy on Americans? Why weren't they using rocks and bullets to attack Congressional offices when it became clear that there were no WMD in Iraq? They are not defenders of any principle. They are afraid of the boogieman Barack Hussein Obama–the secret Muslim socialist born in Kenya who pals around with terrorists.
I am very angry that Obama is continuing almost all of Bush's policies, but I identified him as a lackey of the status quo long before he was elected president. I think Americans SHOULD be angry, but that anger needs to be grounded in reality and channeled constructively. It needs to be directed at the cynical propagandists of the GOP, Fox News, and talk radio, and not just at the Democrats.
I hope you will resist the reflex to defend yourself and will instead re-evaluate your misguided thoughts on these issues.
tippycanoe
April 6th, 2010 at 3:16 am
Good points, both of you. And yes, Maddow is a tool… General Electric signs her paycheck.
tippycanoe
April 5th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
This is the pitfall of thinking in terms of Left vs. Right and it's fairly clear and lucid were Rachel stands. She perpetuates the polarization, as do most MSM pundits. Red/Blue, Tea/Coffee, Us/Them, etc.
I'm with Justin on this.
""The chief problem of American political life for a long time has been how to make the two Congressional parties more national and more international. The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps of the Right, and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical so that the American people can 'throw the rascals out' at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy. The policies that are vital and necessary for America are no longer subjects of significant disagreement, but are disputable only in terms of procedure, priority and method…" -Carol Quigley, Tragedy and Hope [Page 1248-1249]
OldUncleDave
April 6th, 2010 at 3:33 am
I am pro American and anti government. Those in power would have you believe that is impossible. They lie.
Rachel Maddow Calls BS on Fake Republican Outrage - Page 2 - Southern Maryland Community Forums
April 5th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
[...] Originally Posted by Nonno "Rachel Maddow calls bull-pucky on Fox News and the GOP for fake outrage on everything from fake pimp James O'Keefe who helped take ACORN down, to Climate-gate, to recess appointments, to the individual mandate in the health care plan, to Miranda rights, to trials for terrorists, to the birthers to you name it. She asks "Has there ever been a time where we shared so few political facts?" and after noting that we need some actual serious political discourse in America and how important that is to our democracy adds this: Two things disqualify you from this process. You can't threaten to shoot people, and you have to stop making stuff up. Amen sister. She's right, the Republicans and their allies in the press should be disqualified from this process for propagandizing the public and for allowing the violent rhetoric coming out of these Tea partiers, Fox News and Republican members of Congress to continue. Until some more of your cohorts in the media are willing to do the same thing you did here, that's not going to happen. This dangerous nonsense is only going to get worse until we get these media monopolies broken up." More at: Rachel Maddow Calls Bull-Pucky on Fake Republican Outrage | Video Cafe Here is an interesting take… Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite by Justin Raimondo — Antiwar.com [...]
ZionismIsRacism
April 5th, 2010 at 11:00 pm
at least you saw i was fulminating before i was censored without even a mark of "message deleted by administrator"
Scott
April 6th, 2010 at 6:03 am
Google picks the ads. We block as many objectionable ones as we can.
-The mgmt.
anti_republocrat
April 6th, 2010 at 6:19 am
Whoa, looks like I hit submit a little too fast. Obviously, Maddow and Olbermann are not "radicals" or furthest to the left. They ARE about as far left as you're allowed on tv. They certainly aren't McCarthyists. McCarthyism attacked and black listed gentle people who never committed a single violent act. Maddow was talking about violence.
RockyRococo
April 6th, 2010 at 6:50 am
"The first time as tragedy, the second as farce"
The problem with the so-called left today is that it's filled with people who watch MSNBC every day, but have never read The XVIII Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte. The young revolutionary Marx of the immediate post-1848 period understood the danger that concentrated state power represented. The Brumaire was the first analysis of the emergence of the social-political tendency that became formalized in the 20th century as fascism. A "left" that gets not just its information, but its conceptual categories, from GE, a vast capitalist corporate media giant and military industrial complex is hardly a "left" at all, and certainly not one prepared to take on the fights that the Brumaire sets out as its social duties.
Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite « The Quick and the Dead
April 6th, 2010 at 5:52 am
[...] Maddow, McCarthyite Justin Raimondo nails her as a “McCarthyite harpy” who is “witch hunting”, as somebody who wants to [...]
MvGuy
April 6th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
OOOOOOOOO why do we get censored when we turn up the tone..?? what WAS the problem with the ZIR post??? AND what is the POLICY regarding laying out ones impression of these offerings here by those with the delete button?? I was deleted for mentioning the Kirt Haskel affair TWO DAYS before it was presented as government hanky-panky by Justin Raimondo… As in there is no policy, I got one of my posts deleted for an Alex Jones URL… "Governments lie but 911 is dangerous to question, ever here… if they don't like it for ANY reason or NO reason… It's gone.. It's a small price to pay for this excellent work being done here. Still it would be nice if these hits were more transparent, not so arbitrary & capricious… I find if you wait a couple of days and repost, often they remain… Censoring lessens financial contribution and runs the risk of doing what we, they accuse the MSM of doing, keeping the breadth of analysis narrowed down to their parameters..
Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite
April 6th, 2010 at 7:19 am
[...] [...]
MvGuy
April 6th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
I think anti_republocrat is on to something… In a way it's the gun talk, "Don't retreat, reload" and the guns at town halls.. The right to bear arms is absolutely necessary and right, like toilet brushes, please don't bring either of yours to brunch and what would you need them for at town hall??? O.K. if anyone is guilty in this episode, it should be those making the threats of violence…. Just arrest them.
Spitting on a person is assault. U.S. versus Mizell. I knew Perry Mizell from his Yippie days at 6 Bleeker. He had a Volkswagon window van. He was and probably still is passionate. He spit on "Scoop" Jackson The Godfather of the Neocons, at some antiwar protest. Jackson was to an extent responsible for the murder of tens or hundreds of thousands of hapless Vietnamese, but the court held it did NOT justify being spit on.
icr
April 6th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Yet when lefties on campus violently suppress the right to free speech of the likes of Tom Tancredo and the Minutemen that doesn't count. as violence for Maddow and most of her fellow lefties. They are neo-Stalinists. Also see: http://secularright.org/wordpress/?p=3840
icr
April 6th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
All have are some anecdotes and unsupported assertions. All we can say for sure is that the Tea party movement is an incoherent mess. We can only hope that some productive element emerges from it. Recall that the antiwar movement of the Vietnam period had the support of groups that ranged from totalitarian admirers of the USSR to religious pacifists.
Dubl
April 6th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
This from a person invoking THE EXACT SAME TACTICS, lumping the entire Tea Party movement under one unoriginal mocking name, and attributing a cookie cutter lot of media planted fears, partisanship, and prejudices to a broad and diverse group of people spread across the country. And then following that up with implications of racism. Priceless.
You may think in your pea brain that you are making some profound point, because you can't filter real facts from the easily digestible nuggets spoonfed to you by the media. But all we hear is the barking sound of a trained seal. What point or perspective do you feel your totally co-opted, factless rant against non-existent fantasy villians is providing us?
t quigly
April 6th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
"the government is trying to semi-criminalize "anti-government" speech is the announcement by something called the "Guardians of the Republics" that thirty US governors must resign or else face "removal."
As Michael Rivero at whatreallyhappened.com notes, this is most likely another government set-up. The government is tying this group to the freedom and/or libertarian movement. But this movement supports states rights. It would not be threatening states' governors. It does not make sense, therefore, is probably another faux federal ploy
Right-Wing Links (April 6, 2010)
April 6th, 2010 at 10:32 am
[...] Rachel Maddow Smearing Methodology [...]
The Progressive Mind » Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite by Justin Raimondo — Antiwar.com
April 6th, 2010 at 11:50 am
[...] Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite by Justin Raimondo — Antiwar.com. April 6th, 2010 | Category: Uncategorized | Comments are closed | [...]
Heathcliff_Maw
April 6th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Thank you, but I cited facts from FBI statistics and the well established fact that people were showing up at town halls with guns and making threats. As for the anecdotes about militia groups, there was a consistent pattern.
Heathcliff_Maw
April 6th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
NEWS FLASH: Charles Alan Wilson is arrested for threatening to kill Senator Patty Murray for voting in support of health care reform. He left multiple threatening messages.
Now, tell me again how lies that incite the stupid and the crazy don't have consequences.
"Mushroom clouds!" "WMD!" "Saddam is allied with bin Laden!"
Rachel Maddow is holding to account the very same people who propagated that bull shit. Those who call MSNBC the left's Fox News make a false equivalence. It's only MSNBC and Comedy Central in the television medium that make any effort to debunk the oft repeated lies of the GOP and its unofficial propaganda ministry Fox News. The rest of the medium largely ignores the purpose of the First Amendment.
Heathcliff_Maw
April 7th, 2010 at 1:41 am
Grady, the more irrational animosity directed at Obama (as opposed to the rational sort) has far less to do with race than you may think. Surely there has been some race baiting by the likes of Beckkk and Limbaugh among others, but it really is about a DEMOCRAT becoming president. Please recall the atmosphere that Bill Clinton had to face as soon as he won the 1992 election.
It was a given that whichever Democrat became president would be scathingly opposed by the Republicans no matter what. It is how they have played the game since Atwater and Ailes (who has been the president of Fox News since its inception) ran Daddy Bush's 1988 campaign.
Do you think they'd be any more kind to President Hillary Clinton? President John Kerry? President Al Gore?
Call out and condemn racist attacks when they occur, but don't make presumptions about people's motives. The easy answer is often the wrong one. That being said, the overwhelming majority of TEA Partiers are scared, misinformed and very, very gullible.
Just Another Atrocityy. By Justin Raimondo « Kanan48
April 6th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
[...] Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite – April 4th, 2010 [...]
Ideas And Minds | Blog | Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite
April 7th, 2010 at 12:01 am
[...] April 7, 2010 in Civil Liberties, Syndication by Ideas&Minds Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite [...]
anti zionist
April 7th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
maddow is a slick zionist. this is enough to condemn her to hell.
Really?
April 7th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
You lost me at, "It's only MSNBC and Comedy Central in the television medium that make any effort to debunk the oft repeated lies of the GOP and its unofficial propaganda ministry Fox News"
I gave up on the Right long ago, but the current group of Jon Stewart worshiping Idiot faux-liberals are worse than any group of right wing religious nut jobs with all their moralizing and intellectual dishonesty.
Sorry America, it was a good run, but now we leave you to warmongers with no consciences and lefties with no brains.
Nope.
April 7th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Why does it have to be Republicans VS Democrats?
Both parties are destroying this USA. Bush's 8 years were awful, we were screwed by a so-called conservative.
Obama has exploded the debt to unbelievable amounts, claimed "job creation" by hiring more government workers (with wages paid for by tax payers) and temporary construction jobs, sent more troops to both GWOT locations, PLUS Pakistan, increased Drone attacks against civilians, and created more division in this country than Bush and co EVER did.
Yet you still want to be an apologist for another bad leader b/c you share the same partisan designation, even after the President expands the policy of the last one?
You are a perfect example of why there is no forward momentum in this nation anymore.
Strawman!
April 7th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
You don't seem to realize that the Tea Party isn't a national, unified movement, despite what Beck, Limabaugh, and all the Democrat Shills would have you believe. They started very innocuously as support for Ron Paul's fiscally conservative approach to governance.
Now, many Neo Cons have infiltrated certain localities, but the principle of smaller, more efficient government is so conductive to personal liberty that I will gladly take the imperfections of the Tea Party over the excesses and force of the current Regime or the previous one.
Please look at this situation from a dispassionate standpoint and save the vitriol for those deserving.
Heathcliff_Maw
April 7th, 2010 at 9:15 pm
You jump to a lot of unfounded conclusions. I suggest you carefully reread my post and the others I've made on the thread.
I am not a Democrat and I am not an apologist for Obama. In fact, I am usually very critical of Obama. However, I believe that truth has value, so let me point out a few things. The census bureau hires temporary workers every ten years. That isn't an Obama policy. The stimulus program follows the example of work programs during the Great Depression that stimulated the economy back then. Yes, we were well on our way to recovery before Pearl Harbor. GDP was growing impressively and the unemployment rate had decreased from 25% to about 15%. The idea is that we have to spend money on our infrastructure anyway. That spending is an INVESTMENT. It was something that Bush had been neglecting besides. Moving up the timetable for that investment spending has the side benefit of stimulating the economy at a time when it is in the tank and there are plenty of unemployed construction workers. The work goes to PRIVATE contractors. Further, Bush left Obama with a $1.2-trillion deficit. Bush doubled the national debt in eight years. This isn't apology for Obama; it's setting the record straight.
Although I regularly fault Obama for continuing Bush's policies, it is absurd to fault him for "creating more division in this country." What party impeached a president over trivial matters last decade? What party has its own 24/7 propaganda channel (Fox News) that relentlessly lies to its viewers for partisan purposes? Obama has included Republicans in his administration and made many efforts to reach out to Republicans; they have refused to cooperate. The only item on the Republican agenda is to stop the Democrats from doing any good in the hope that the country will continue to suffer and they can return . That is why they were determined to unanimously oppose ANY reform of health care and why they will continue to treat every other issue the same way until they regain power.
I don't like the Democrats, but I am fair enough to recognize the Republicans as worse.
I agree that partisanship is a problem. That is why I think Congress should be made of people selected at random (like jury duty) till each district finds someone willing and able to serve for a limited time.
Heathcliff_Maw
April 7th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
Jon Stewart and I have something in common: we point out the faults of both Republicans and Democrats. The difference is that he is funnier and I pick on the Democrats more frequently than he does. To be fair, the Republicans give him more to work with. It is an indictment of television news that a comedian does their job better than they.
Your post is, on the whole, insulting and unfair. I am not a leftie or a faux liberal nor a partisan. I am a liberal though. If you have nothing to offer but your prejudices and insults, then don't bother to reply.
Strawman!
April 7th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
Sir/Madam,
I apologize if I have incorrectly categorized you as Democrat. (I myself am an Independent)
While I will agree with you that the Republicans are excessively distasteful as people and statesmen, I must take issue with your GDP growth analogy (increasing "G" does not make "Y" more sound, in fact the higher "G" is the less "C" and "I" have to be).
Sustainable economic development does not originate via central fiat, as you have proffered (If I read your example correctly). Yes Bush, "I had to destroy the free market in order to save it" was a clown and a complete fool, but Obama has done NOTHING but take credit for any "good" (Census workers hired, Elections in Afghanistan/Iraq, increase in GDP when G is the fastest growing variable in the calculation) and blaming the bad on Bush (Deficits, Bonuses paid to executives in favored companies, Bailouts of certain corporations, Health Care failure etc.). All the while the Administration maligns every naysayer and acts like children every time someone calls foul on one of their myriad screw ups.
You seem to be a well informed person, and I will venture you this: This administration is engaging is partisanship and chicanery so distasteful, it makes the Bush years seem tame. Plus Democrats had majorities since 2007, so Bush was a Lame Duck for two years, but now? Any agenda can be relentlessly pursued by the current crop of political madmen, damn the people.
Heathcliff_Maw
April 8th, 2010 at 2:17 am
Thank you for your response. The idea is not that sustained economic development comes from central fiat. The idea comes from John Maynard Keynes (who was very much a believer in capitalism) that when the economy is in great distress (as it was in the 1930's), the government should engage in deficit spending to "prime the pump" of the economy. That is, provide it with a jump start. Keynes did not mean for this idea to be applied to ordinary, short-run, cyclical recessions, though some Democrats in past decades thought they should. We are currently experiencing a recession serious and long-term enough for Keynes' idea to apply.
Politicians from both parties are partisan and dishonest, but I honestly don't see how Obama's administration is doing anything more partisan than the Bush administration. I don't recall Bush including any Democrats in his administration or making any of the efforts that Obama has to engage the other side.
Bush never vetoed a single bill during the first six years of his presidency, but used the veto 12 times in his last two years once the Democrats were in the majority. That shows a partisan streak. So far, Obama has used the veto only once, but that puts him ahead of Bush's first six years. Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_State…
During the first six years of Bush's presidency, minority Democrats used the filibuster at a more frequent rate than ever in US history. However, in the 2.25 years since, the minority Republicans have been using it more than twice as often as the Democrats had in the prior six years.
The political climate is more polarized than it has ever been in modern times, but I have seen an abundance of evidence that the Republicans have been pushing the divide over the last 22 years much more than the Democrats.
What if 9/11 had happened the same way on Al Gore's watch? Do you honestly believe that Republicans would have rallied around the president in the same way the Democrats did with Bush? I doubt it. What I remember was that while the Democrats were putting partisanship aside, the Republicans were trying to shift all the blame on Bill Clinton for not killing bin Laden earlier. Have they apologized to Clinton now that bin Laden survived eight years of Bush when Bush had MUCH better opportunities to kill him? No. I don't remember the Democrats trying to score political points by savagely attacking Bush for reading Richard Reid his Miranda rights. Compare that to the Republicans' reaction when the Obama administration read the underwear bomber his Miranda rights.
Strawman!
April 8th, 2010 at 3:55 am
Keynes theories (and they are theories) on "priming the pump" spending via deficits are flawed for a multitude of reasons. Keynes was also the originator of the "broken window" fallacy, and the fallacy that debt =/= prosperity. His theories ignore the fact that debts have to be repaid and deficit spending cannot continue indefinitely. Small debt is manageable, Sovereign Debt Crises are not. Those that subscribe to Keyensianism are near universally academics with no practical real world applicative experience outside of scholarly pursuits and political advising.
The Great Depression was broken by our entry into WW2 and 97 percent wartime manufacturing employment and solidarity among the citizenry. The government's laughable machinations did naught but slow down recovery and open the door for future Constitutional issues by increasing the size and scope of the Central Ruling Body over the States' Republic. (This has been proven mathematically by non partisan groups-Cato and Ludwig Von Mises Group are two I am particularly fond of that demonstrate this)
I cannot speculate as to how Al Gore and the Republicans would have reacted, I only know I detest the Republican Body as a whole, with a few exceptions. I can observe what is currently happening through the actions of a man who promised unity, peace, and prosperity for all; and has delivered the opposite and whose continued political enterprises seek to undermine personal property rights even further as he allows the State to strike and marginalize any dissenting group with full faith, confidence and backing.
Not a good situation for any "free" people, no?
Heathcliff_Maw
April 8th, 2010 at 4:53 am
You seem to be arguing that government spending cannot do anything to prime the economy, but that it took massive government spending (for a war, no less) to break the Great Depression. Are you aware of this inconsistency?
There is a false notion among many Americans that wars are good for the economy. You haven't said this, but you come close. Wars are horrible for economies. They don't build countries. They destroy them. During WWII, the US went through economic hardship. There was rationing of resources. There were wage controls. At least the war was fought elsewhere. That spared our infrastructure, but it destroyed Europe and Japan.
If you review the data, you'd see that WWII was not necessary to come out of the Great Depression. GDP was greater in 1937 than it was in 1929. In 1940, it was almost 10% greater than it was in 1938. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_…
Keynes never argued in favor of indefinite deficit spending. Where did you get that idea? Keynes argued in favor of deficit spending for the short-term to stimulate a moribund economy.
The Broken Window fallacy came from Bastiat, not from Keynes. Keynes argued that when resources were being severely under-utilized, the boy who broke the window might be an unwitting economic benefactor, but not the best one.
Census Bureau: “conservative” is “risk” - Without Adjectives
April 8th, 2010 at 5:57 am
[...] live in an America where third party voters are suspected by government as being highly dangerous, pro-lifers are condemned on prime-time tv as clinic-bombing extremists and of being “one branch of the broader movement of violent, [...]
Back to Kyrgyzstan. By Justin Raimondo « Kanan48
April 9th, 2010 at 12:41 am
[...] Rachel Maddow, McCarthyite – April 4th, 2010 [...]
augustus818
April 13th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
Rachel Maddow is lesbian version of "Butters" from South Park. With her fakey plucky, "Aww shucks guys" can-do attitude. She can be entertaining for the first 10 minutes, then it gets a little grating. Then it becomes utterly fucking annoying.