They Died in Vain; Deal With It
Many of those preaching at American church services Sunday extolled as “heroes” the 30 American and 8 Afghan troops killed Saturday west of Kabul, when a helicopter on a night mission crashed, apparently after taking fire from Taliban forces. This week, the Fawning Corporate Media (FCM) can be expected to beat a steady drumbeat of “they shall not have died in vain.”
But they did. I know it is a hard truth, but they did die in vain.
As in the past, churches across the country will keep praising the fallen troops for protecting “our way of life,” and few can demur, given the tragic circumstances.
But, sadly, such accolades are, at best, misguided — at worst, dishonest. Most preachers do not have a clue as to what U.S. forces are doing in Afghanistan and why. Many prefer not to think about it. There are some who do know better, but virtually all in that category eventually opt to punt.
Should we fault the preachers as they reach for words designed to give comfort to those in their congregations mourning the deaths of so many young troops? As hard as it might seem, I believe we can do no other than fault — and confront — them. However well-meaning their intentions, their negligence and timidity in confronting basic war issues merely help to perpetuate unnecessary killing. It is high time to hold preachers accountable.
Many preachers are alert and open enough to see through the propaganda for perpetual war. But most will not take the risk of offending their flock with unpalatable truth. Better not to risk protests from the super-patriots — many of them with deep pockets — in the pews. And better to avoid, at all costs, offending the loved ones of those who have been killed — loved ones who can hardly be faulted for trying desperately to find some meaning in the snuffing out of young lives.
Best to Just Praise and Pray
Far better to pray for those already killed and those who in the future will “give the last full measure of devotion to our country.” In sum, by and large, American preachers are afraid to tell the truth. They lack the virtue that Thomas Aquinas taught is the foundation of all virtue — courage. Aquinas wrote (to translate into the vernacular) that all other virtue is specious if you have no guts.
Writer James Hollingsworth hit the nail on the head: “Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear.” Like the truth.
Those who often seem to ache the most in the face of unnecessary death are mothers. Many mothers do summon the courage to say — and say loudly — ENOUGH. Yes, my son (or daughter) died for no good purpose, they are strong enough to acknowledge, painfully but honestly. He (she) did die in vain. Now we must all deal with it. Stop the false patriotism. And, most important, stop the killing.
Cindy Sheehan, whose 25-year-old son Casey was killed in Iraq in 2004, is one such mother. She and others have tried to put a dent into the strange logic that attempts to translate unnecessary death into justification for still more unnecessary death. But they get little air or ink in the Fawning Corporate Media. Rather, what you will hear in the days ahead from the FCM is well-honed rhetoric not only about how our troops “cannot have died in vain,” but also that Americans must now redouble our resolve to “honor their sacrifice.”
President Barack Obama set the tone on Saturday:
“We will draw inspiration from their lives, and continue the work of securing our country and standing up for the values they embodied.”
Gen. John R. Allen, the top U.S. general in Afghanistan, also primed the pump for the FCM, saying Saturday, “All of those killed in this operation were true heroes who had already given so much in the defense of freedom.”
And the Joint Chiefs chairman went even further in professing to know “what our fallen would have wanted” us to do — namely, “keep fighting.” Adm. Mike Mullen added that “it is certainly what we are going to do.” All this was duly reported in Sunday’s Washington Post and other leading U.S. newspapers —without much comment.
Over the next several days, TV viewers will get a steady diet of this kind of disingenuous logic from talk show hosts feeding on the grist from Obama, Mullen, Allen, and others. After all, many pundits work for news organizations owned or allied with some of the same corporations profiteering from war.
Too bad CBS’s legendary Edward R. Murrow is long since dead, and the widely respected Walter Cronkite, as well. Taking the CBS baton from Murrow, who had challenged the “red scare” witch hunt of Sen. Joe McCarthy, Cronkite gradually saw through the dishonesty responsible for the killing of so many in Vietnam. He finally spoke up, and said, in effect, any more who die will have died in vain.
(The very long hiatus between Cronkite and Scott Pelley, newly appointed CBS Evening News anchor, has been particularly painful. The jury is still out, but I harbor some hope that Pelley may try to follow CBS’s earlier, prouder tradition, if by some miracle his corporate bosses allow him to. Given today’s prevailing atmosphere of obeisance to establishment Washington, Pelley certainly has his work cut out for him. We shall have to wait and see if he has it in him to take the risk of rising to the occasion.)
Corporal Shank & Specialist Kirkland
Five years ago I was giving talks in Missouri, when the body of 18-year-old Cpl. Jeremy Shank of Jackson, Mo., (population 12,000) came home for burial. He was killed in Hawijah, Iraq, on Sept. 6, 2006, while on a “dismounted security patrol when he encountered enemy forces using small arms,” according to the Pentagon.
Which enemy forces? Two weeks before Shank was killed, Stephen Hadley, George W. Bush’s national security adviser, acknowledged that the challenge in Iraq “isn’t about insurgency, isn’t about terror; it’s about sectarian violence.” Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki added, “The most important element in the security plan is to curb the religious violence.”
So was Shank’s mission to prevent Iraqi religious fanatics from blowing up one another? What do you think: was that worth his life?
On Sept. 7, 2006, the day after Shank was killed, President Bush, in effect, mocked his unnecessary death by drawing the familiar but bogus connection between 9/11 and the “war on terror,” of which he claimed Iraq was a part. Bush said, “Five years after September 11, 2001, America is safer — and America is winning the war on terror.”
Flowery Funeral Words
Back at the First Baptist Church in Jackson, Mo., Rev. Carter Frey eulogized Shank as one of those who “put themselves in harm’s way and paid the ultimate sacrifice so you and I can have freedom to live in this country.”
Correction: It was not Cpl. Shank who put himself in harm’s way; it was those who used a peck of lies to launch a bloody, unnecessary war — first and foremost, Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, not to mention the craven Congress that authorized it and most of the FCM that led the cheerleading for it.
Was separating Shia from Sunni a mission worth what is so facilely called the “ultimate sacrifice,” or — for other troops — the penultimate one paid by tens of thousands of veterans trying to adjust to life with brain injury, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and/or missing limbs?
Despite the self-serving rhetoric about “heroes,” the young, small-town Shanks of America stand low in the priorities of establishment Washington. They are pawns in the war games played by generals and politicians far, far from the battlefield.
Even in the Army in which I served, troops were often referred to simply as “warm bodies” — that is, at least before they became cold and stiff. But that term was normally not accompanied by the mechanistic disdain reflected in the memo by a Fort Lewis-McCord Army major that came to light last year.
On March 20, 2010, Spc. Derrick Kirkland, back from his second tour in Iraq, hanged himself in the barracks at Fort Lewis-McCord, leaving behind a wife and young daughter. Kirkland had been suffering from severe depression and anxiety attacks, for which he had to bear severe ridicule by his comrades.
Expendable
As for his superiors, it was Army policy to do everything possible to avoid diagnosing PTSD. And so, Kirkland ended up becoming a new entry on a little-known statistical table, namely, the one that shows that more active-duty soldiers are currently committing suicide than are being killed in combat.
Not a problem for Maj. Keith Markham, executive officer of Kirkland’s unit, who put the prevailing attitude all too clearly in a private memo sent to his platoon leaders. “We have an unlimited supply of expendable labor,” wrote Markham.
And, sadly, he is right. Because of the poverty draft (aka the “professional Army”), more than half of U.S. troops come from small towns like Jackson, Mo., and the inner cities of our country. In both these places, good jobs and educational opportunity are rare to nonexistent.
I suspect that one factor behind the very high suicide rate is a belated realization among the troops that they have been conned, lied to — that they have been used as pawns in an unconscionably cynical game. I would imagine that corporals and specialists, as well as high brass like the legendary two-time Medal of Honor winner, Marine Gen. Smedley Butler, often come to this realization belatedly, and that this probably exacerbates the pain.
Butler wrote War Is a Racket in
1935, describing the workings of the military-industrial complex well
before President Eisenhower gave it a name. It is not difficult
for troops to learn that the phenomenon about which Eisenhower warned
has now broadened into an even more pervasive and powerful military-industrial-corporate-
And for what? Please raise your hand if you now believe, or have ever believed, that the White House and Pentagon have sent a hundred thousand troops to Afghanistan for the reason given by President Obama, namely, “to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat” the 50 to 100 al-Qaeda who U.S. intelligence agencies say are still in Afghanistan.
And keep your hands up, those of you who fear you might throw something at the TV screen the next time Gen. David Petraeus intones that wonderfully flexible phrase “fragile and reversible” to describe what he keeps calling “progress” in Afghanistan.
Troops returning from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan know better. It must be particularly hard for them to hear the lies about “progress,” and then be ridiculed and marginalized for having PTSD. It seems a safe bet that some of those have read Kipling, and on occasion wish they had found release by following his morbid advice — awful as it is:
“When you’re wounded and left on
Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what
remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out
your brains
And go to your gawd like a soldier.”
The Establishment Church
I added “institutional church” into
the military-industrial-corporate-
I find that most men and women of the cloth avoid indicting “wars of choice,” even though such wars were quite precisely defined at the post-WWII Nuremberg Tribunal as “wars of aggression” and labeled the “supreme” international war crime. They know that in such wars thousands upon thousands die — civilians as well as military.
But then fear seems to walk in, for preachers all too often fall back on platitudinous, fulsome praise for those who “have given their lives so that we can live in freedom.” And, as the familiar phrase goes, they say/think, “I guess we’ll have to leave it there.”
And there continue to be relatively few outspoken folk like Cindy Sheehan, painfully aware that courage and truth are far more important than fear, even when that fear includes the painful recognition that the life of a beloved young son was ended unnecessarily. There are some who dare to point out that the mission given our troops has made us less, not more, safe at home, and ask what is so hard to understand about “thou shalt not kill”? The FCM ignores these justice folks, so all too few know of what they say and do.
It is a curiosity that the Bible and the teachings of Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., for example, seem to have become overtaken by events and no longer inform the sermons of many American preachers. Odd that the relevant teachings from this treasure trove seem to have become passé or, as former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said of the Geneva Conventions, “quaint” and “obsolete.”
I have this vision of Stephen Decatur smiling from the afterlife as he watches more and more acceptance being given in recent years to his famous dictum: “Our country, right or wrong.”
Let me suggest that preachers consider drawing material from yet another source in thinking about the wars in which the U.S. is currently engaged. Instead of fulsome encomia for those who have made “the ultimate sacrifice,” they might be directed to Rudyard Kipling for words more to the point, if politically and congregationally incorrect.
Two passages (the first a one-liner) shout out their applicability to U.S. misadventures in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, and — God help us — where next?
“If they ask you why we died, tell them because our fathers lied.”
and
“It is not wise for the Christian
white
To hustle the Asian brown;
For the Christian riles,
And the Asian smiles
And weareth the Christian down.
At the end of the fight
Lies a tombstone white
With the name of the late deceased;
And the epitaph drear,
A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East.”
Read more by Ray McGovern
- Applying the Six-Day War to Iran – May 18th, 2012
- Honoring a ‘Terror War’ Architect – May 13th, 2012
- Not Explaining the Why of Terrorism – May 2nd, 2012
- Render to Caesar, Extraordinarily – April 6th, 2012
- Obama’s Super-Bowl Fumble on Iran – February 7th, 2012





skulz fontaine
August 8th, 2011 at 9:42 pm
Well said Mr. McGovern. Staggeringly well said. The shamefully misanthropic preachers than fill America's pulpit, are as guilty of treason as are the poltroon politicians that lie Amerika into these insane and endless wars.
Amerika is cursed by it's very ignorant blindness. Cursed to repeat the endless tragedies that are the Bush wars, the Obama wars, and there isn't so much difference between the two.
Navy Seals died in a shot down Chinook and that in and of itself, should waken the Amerikan psyche to start asking the hard questions. But then again, just about time for some football…
JDonald
August 8th, 2011 at 9:42 pm
Early last decade I wrote a poem entitled "The Silence of the Church". I was appalled as a Presbyterian that there was hardly a dissenting voice heard when Bush invaded Iraq and Afghanastan. Christians, who are supposed to be followers of Chirst, have no teachings from their Master to engage in war or retribution against wrongs. 9/11 was wrong, but killing 1 million Iraqis and displacing over 4 million of them to change their government was the farthest thing from the teachings of Jesus. And to claim the world is better to be rid of Saddam, Yasser Arafat, Gadaffi, etc, is an opinion in the eye of the beholder. Please just stay out of other peoples lands and business and let their societies develop at their own pace to wherever they might be going. And if people die along the way, think back to the 280,000 Americans killed in your Civil War. I call these folks the kookie kristians and just this weekend I saw one of them on the TV news carryng a sing saying "God Hates Taxes". Give me a break.
musings
August 8th, 2011 at 9:51 pm
Yes, the useless war has taken many a brave and fit American into the grave.
Salesmanship is never at a loss to give the reasons why to go. Even Kipling, on America's entry into the Philippines in the Spanish-American War, wrote about how we now would "Take up the white man's burden – to veil the threat of terror, and check the show of pride."
What we would be involved in would be "the savage wars of peace" (peace then because a bunch of Filipino natives would not be able to strike back until recent decades when they would send legions of nurses to California to undercut the wages of Americans — they being ex-American colonials). I don't anticipate waves of Iraqi and Afghani nurses in the 21st century, but who knows. More immigrants will undoubtedly come out of this.
A parochial school I once attended in Garden Grove California now has Vietnamese students and the last time I saw it, they put up a prayer tree with those folded papers like you see in Japan too. Buddhism mixing in with the Roman Catholicism of the Irish variety – hey, not a bad thing. Paid for in blood, of course, lots of it. I wonder if the Vietnamese kids get whacked with rulers too. Probably too awkward.
Yes, this war stuff is useless. I was just in my kitchen throwing away some tomatoes that had rotten in the recent hot weather. I felt a little sad that these lovingly planted vines had produced so little that is edible lately, but then I considered that they were in their way useful because while standing in my yard, the bees got a snootful of pollen and nectar from the flowers, and the carbon dioxide cycle went on, etc. So some good came of what I considered a loss.
And that's how this war will be when it wears down. We are fools who try to hustle the East. In being fooled, however, we might actually be doing something better than we thought, though wrong. But one thing we are not doing is what we thought we were doing.
And no, I am not in favor of these wars. I thought it might have made sense to chase down bin Laden, but none of the rest. And it is all so old now, so feeble and we are broke. Enough already.
John_Muhammad
August 9th, 2011 at 12:03 am
""God hates taxes" indeed.
If that's true then why were Mary and Joseph on their way to Bethlehem TO PAY THEIR TAXES when Isa (Jesus) was born?
If that's true why did Isa preach to 'render unto Caesar what is Caesar's'?
Sometimes I have to wonder how some preachers- and indeed many religious speakers of all faiths- managed to make it to the pulpit before being discovered as unfit to teach others anything about faith.
bob35983
August 9th, 2011 at 12:04 am
give this subject up; you're over your head.
bob35983
August 9th, 2011 at 12:08 am
I have a curiosity concerning this story.
In this area much is made of the storyline: killed on their way to "rescue U.S. Army rangers".
Where's the rest of the story? Where were these deparately situated Rangers, what was happening to the Rangers, and what became of them when the "resue mission" was destroyed?
Claus Eric Hamle
August 9th, 2011 at 2:13 am
Until the summer of 2001 the Taliban had most of their income from the USG. The Taliban were guests of honor in Texas to negotiate the Trans-Afghan Pipeline. But the Taliban wanted to give the contract to an Argentinian firm. At the time Karzai was a CEO of Unocal. Now Unocal has built about 400 kms of the Trans-Afghan Pipeline to bring oil and gas from 5 countries north of Afghanistan to Karachi to go by ship to United Bluff. Soldiers are willing to die for aircondition in Texas ! The permanent bases agreed to with Karzai are along Trans-Afghan Pipeline, of course. There´s a reason they call United Bluff The Great Satan.
JLS
August 9th, 2011 at 5:32 am
My mom watches Mike Huckabee's show every saturday and sunday nights and the first thing he said this week was that "Our prayers go out to those brave seals who died for our freedom."
I just want to scream everytime someone repeats that vacuous propaganda phrase. it's so depressing.They died because they enjoyed playing cowboy and bullying people in other countries. They died so that corporate America and the CIA could expand their influence. They died becuse they were almost physically gifted enough to play professional sports but not quite, but they didn't die for our freedom.
richard vajs
August 9th, 2011 at 5:51 am
To me, it is not a great mystery why so many ministers support the wars – they are not Christians, they are "Evangelicals". The Evangelical teachings have evolved from the series of books commonly grouped as the "Left behind" series. Generally, the tenets of the Evangelical faith are obsession with the Book of Revelations, belief in the imminent end times, belief in the "rapture", and most of all a belief that Jesus will rule on Earth out of (of all places), Jerusalem. This last part makes it essential that the Israelis be encouraged to drive all Muslims out of Israel. This gets all wrapped around to current politics. With Evangelicals, their politics is their religion and their religion is their politics. A perfect example of this is Rick Perry's sermon on the mount last week in Houston.
musings
August 9th, 2011 at 6:35 am
Yes, I wondered about that too. If only because my godfather, my uncle, was one of the first Rangers and a POW of the Germans for half of WWII. I always wonder about Rangers. And there was nothing about their being killed when the chopper went down. What happened to them?
NavyVietnamWarVet
August 9th, 2011 at 6:50 am
Inscription carved at the bottom of a gravemarker for a Vietnam War casualty buried in the VA cemetery in Salisbury, NC – "just another number".
Mr. McGovern has said it well – ALL those Americans being sacrificed in Afghanistan are dying for the gas pipeline that the Texas Oil Companies are building through that country – NOT for anyone freedoms.
They are "just another number".
MvGuy
August 9th, 2011 at 6:56 am
Moron!!
MvGuy
August 9th, 2011 at 7:10 am
Go RAY go… Go swing the mighty Kipling… There is just no defense against Kipling……. Against the historical reality of invading Afghanistan…… I've been there as a tourist hash seeker/smuggled and I tell you the real danger there is that………. they are …..just like US!! So if you want to see the future, ask yourself…. What would WE do if some OTHER country invaded and OCCUPIED us….here in the USA
paulieknuts
August 9th, 2011 at 7:20 am
My youngest son came home today
His friends marched with him all the way
The fife and drum beat out the time
While in his box of polished pine
Like dead meat on a butcher's tray
My youngest son same home today
My youngest son was a fine young man
With a wife, a daughter and two sons
And a man he would have lived and died
Till by a bullet sanctified
Now he's a saint or so they say
They brought their young saint home today
An Afghan sky looks down and weeps
Upon the narrow Kabul streets
At children's blood in gutters spilled
In dreams of glory unfulfilled
As part of freedom's price to pay
My youngest son came home today
My youngest son came home today
His friends marched with him all the way
The pipe and drum beat out the time
While in his box of polished pine
Like dead meat on a butcher's tray
My youngest son came home today
And this time he's here to stay
Generalissimo X
August 9th, 2011 at 8:04 am
the problem here is that special op missions are classified. you die as a ranger, green beret etc. no one knows about it. your parents may get a letter saying you died in a training accident with 50K check but they don't tell the press immediately after it happens. moreover, if/when special op missions are in trouble, they don't send in more or another branch of special ops. in those cases you send in a larger conventional (regular) force as support as the mission has "gone bad." this whole thing stinks to high heaven and if you ask me, they wacked a bunch of these guys to cover the phoney bin laden raid. dead men tell no tales.
further the chinook is a national guard copter and there are stealth copters and such that special op units use so why you'd have 30 ops members of one team on a slow moving chinnook is something that needs further explanation and clarification.
bob35983
August 9th, 2011 at 8:44 am
Moron? I'm not going to use this site to debate religion. However I will defend myself.
"John" is flat-out wrong. Joseph & Mary were coerced to return, etc. "Render unto" is from Christ, not Isaih, & was adrressed to specific people for a specific reason. When the Israelites demanded a king, Samuel clearly & undeniably passed along God's warnings about such & one of these was state taxation.
bob35983@yahoo.com
liveload
August 9th, 2011 at 9:23 am
Very well said indeed; however, the "military-industrial-corporate-congressional-media-institutional-church complex" moniker is far too cumbersome and unwieldy. We need something inexorably catchy and infuriatingly stupid like "Islamofascist" to saddle it with.
liveload
August 9th, 2011 at 9:43 am
Pipeline? That may be one reason, but lets not forget that Afghanistan is very rich in rare elements. Estimates stated decades before the the infrastructure to extract and transport these elements can be put into operation. Resource extraction, transportation, and refining operations are expensive, take a long time, and require a lot of space and infrastructure. So naturally you have the military drive around in circles keeping people occupied while this takes place. So our kids and their kids get to die over a few hovels of mud and the time it takes to rape a country.
Phil Giraldi
August 9th, 2011 at 10:23 am
Ray, whenever they say "They have not died in vain" they really mean that if we kill a few more hecatombs of wogs we will win and everything will be just fine. Little Jimmy will be able to sleep safe in his own little bed again and the blue birds will be over the White Cliffs of Dover. This has been a seemingly neverending nightmare. I was a GI in an earlier war and the thought of those young Americans dying sickens me, but so too does the thought of how many innocents those same young Americans might have killed. When I hear some bible thumper talking about our brave warriors and heroes defending our freedom it is time to turn the TV off lest I put my foot through it. The problem is that too many people believe the BS and voices like yours will always be in a minority until we run out of money or of young Americans ready to die.
liveload
August 9th, 2011 at 10:38 am
Define "win". Is that when they get their pipelines and mining operations up and going? Is it when they have turned Afghanistan into a model society, replete with functioning infrastructure and institutions? Is it when we run out of money and political will to continue? Hard to say. One thing that's clear; however, is regardless of the actual outcome we will "win" according to the establishment's official position on the matter.
musings
August 9th, 2011 at 10:43 am
Who wrote this poem? It has a mix of modern and antique (British empire) to it.
paulieknuts
August 9th, 2011 at 11:03 am
It's a song by Billy Bragg, ostensibly about the Troubles in Ireland. I changed Irish and Belfast to Afghan and Kabul.
Google the song it is quite sad.
paulieknuts
August 9th, 2011 at 11:07 am
Correction written by Eric Boggles, look for the Mary Black version, very moving.
tiozapata
August 9th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
The downing of the " amerikan heroes" is called by the propaganda machine a "tragedy'" . When the amerikan killing machine blows up babies, mothers and other brown people is it ever called a "tragedy " ?!
A. G. Phillbin
August 9th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Garbage. Christ was answering a question regarding withholding taxes from the Romans.
fedupandsick
August 9th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
I'm thinking that if I had a bumper sticker that said "They died in vain, deal with it", I'd have to fear for my life. That's how propagandized we as a country have become. The blind idolization of anything in a uniform is sickening.
Terrance&Philip
August 9th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
Mike Huckabee?
Move over, Elmer Gantry.
John_Muhammad
August 9th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
@ bob
ISA- not Isaiah. Isa would be the the Arabic for 'Jesus'.
The issue at hand is not religion, it's taxation. Even in Judaism- Isa's religion- there is zedakah (charity) which is paid over and above any civil taxes. To the religious community goes the zedakah, to the state goes the taxes- as Isa taught.
We in the Muslim community have the same rules- we obey the shari'a in the performance of our faith, but we also are bound to abide by the prevailing civil law as well, and where civil law intersects with shari'a- especially in the US- the civil law takes precedence as shari'a is not the law of the land. We pay our "zakat" and we also pay our taxes- the two are completely separate.
JLS
August 9th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
Yea I cringe when he comes but its too damn hot to go outside.
B.R. Merrick
August 9th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
I think this is the best article I have ever read at Antiwar.com. Absolutely superb.
jayb
August 9th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
hopefully the taliban will have access to more of those weapons that took down the chopper this weekend. it would give the american cowards, `seals` included, something to mull over.
Jamie N
August 9th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
Most of the citizens in unifiorm a sellouts to there countyry and constitution.The ones in the military not the ones on top but the ones that fight die and get muderd by there own country to make sure they never speak of things the government want to keep quiet wre lied to and don't realize it till they have bullets flying all around them.The military along with the citizens have all the power and need to take there country back.The military has the weapons that will not be needed to take your country back from a tyranical government that don't follow the law of the land the constitution.The thing about it is the costitution calls for such action so you will in now wey break the law.You will even allow them a lawyer in a court of there pears.Obeying the law.
MvGuy
August 9th, 2011 at 8:10 pm
O. K. You are right in a way, but telling someone they are over their head WITHOUT any facts or rebuttal attacted my overly flippant slap….sorry…
Still "If that's true then why were Mary and Joseph on their way to Bethlehem TO PAY THEIR TAXES when Isa (Jesus) was born?"
I would venture that John being a Muslim addresses Jesus as Isaiah [not Isah as you misspelled] but you BOTH agree that "Jesus" said it even if you use different English spellings…
Also telling John to "give up" is counterproductive to our musings here… Why not strive to find the correct narrative, instead of giving up… We are lucky to have John's measured Muslim perspective here. He should be encouraged, not told to quit…
Popsiq
August 9th, 2011 at 8:24 pm
There's a no brainer going on here. I would very much doubt that any American clergyman would ever speak favorably about the kind of Islam that leads a believer to put an RPG into a helicopter full of Christians. Even the Nation of Islam would be sorely put to come out on the side of their co-religionists – being the 'good' Islamics who dwell in America.
Such a position would entail the perspective that, somehow, what America is about in Afghanistan is wrong. That's a discussion America has not yet had, outside a townhall meeting or three. Even at that, there are still a goodly number of Americans who believe in America right – or wrong.
It's just truly fortunate that the Taliban aren't supplied this time, as the US supplied them last time, or the destruction of 30 odd American lives at one time might be more commonplace.
Brad_Smith2
August 10th, 2011 at 12:15 am
All I know is that my years of "Service" were in vain. What I did, I did in good faith. I meant well but I was a fool and a tool. it's not going to hurt my feeling being told that I was wrong. Calling every swinging dinky a hero only promotes more enlistments. I lost friends and I lost part of myself and for what?? Lies and more lies!!!
Brad
August 12th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
Maybe they were pinned down by fire from NFL players. Having served in the Rangers, I'll say you may never find men with more heart and soul. They are True Believers who will make great sacrifices to follow the soulless ghouls who send them on their fools errands.
Have I now become your enemy because I am telling you the truth? « A. J. MacDonald, Jr.
March 2nd, 2012 at 10:07 am
[...] DO NOT believe, as some do, members of our US armed forces – volunteers – who have lost life or limb in the [...]