Over the past several weeks, as Europe first shivered under record snowfall, then coped with the floods caused by the sudden thaw, politics in the Balkans seemed to take its cue from the weather. Relations between the shards of what was once Yugoslavia took a series of turns for the worse.
Croatia’s outgoing president, the always outspoken Stjepan Mesic, took his game to the next level earlier this week, threatening a military intervention against the Serbs in Bosnia. Both Belgrade and the Bosnian Serbs blasted his remarks as "warmongering." Mesic’s newly elected successor, Ivo Josipovic, invited the "President of Kosovo" Fatmir Sejdiu to his inauguration, and then expressed puzzlement when Serbian president Boris Tadic decided to pass on attending.
Tadic would normally bend over backwards for the sake of "neighborly relations," except that he needs all the political capital he can muster to ram through a parliamentary resolution declaring that Serbia condemns the "genocide" in Srebrenica. He made a surprise announcement about the resolution at an annual meeting of Serbian ambassadors in Belgrade, further stirring up the Serbian political scene already riled up by an acrimonious debate over joining NATO.
Meanwhile, NATO is getting ready to assist the Albanian government of the occupied Serbian province of Kosovo (styling itself an independent state since February 2008, with Imperial support) to crack down on Serb communities in the north.
Tumult in Zagreb
Croatian politics, rather sedate in comparison with other Yugoslav successor states, has been in a state of flux over the past month or two. The presidential election ended up being a contest between the Social-democrat Josipovic and his former party colleague, Zagreb mayor Milan Bandic. Josipovic, a jurist, composer and university professor, was a sharp contrast to the brash, boisterous Bandic, whose numerous gaffes were amply documented on YouTube and in the press. The runoff election on January 10 was a landslide for Josipovic, with over 60% of the total vote.
Ivo Sanader, former PM and ex-leader of the HDZ party, unexpectedly came out of his self-imposed retirement a week before the runoff to endorse Bandic — and was promptly expelled from the party.
Serbo-Croat relations have been frostier than usual for several months, especially following Zagreb’s enthusiastic support for the Albanian regime in Kosovo during the debate at the ICJ. Mesic’s comments earlier this week, however, positively iced them over.
Accusing the Bosnian Serb PM Milorad Dodik of pursuing a "dream of Greater Serbia" and seeking to partition Bosnia, Mesic told reporters in an informal conversation that he would’ve sent troops to "break the [Serb Republic] in half" in case of a Serb referendum on secession. Dodik and the government in Banja Luka have indeed been talking about a referendum, but as a way to strengthen the Dayton peace agreement, not break it.
Mesic’s comments were particularly inflammatory considering that the Bosnian Serbs were, in fact, blockaded in precisely the same fashion by Croat forces in the summer of 1992, causing much suffering. This lifeline between the Serb Republic’s two halves has been a sore point ever since the international arbitrators established a neutral Brcko District in 2000. Despite protests from Bosnia and Serbia, Mesic remained unapologetic.
Tadic’s Gambit
Serbian president Boris Tadic, normally all too willing to put up with abuse from Zagreb, had little choice but allow official criticism of Mesic’s statement, and snub Josipovic’s inauguration. Though organized political opposition to his rule is feeble to nonexistent, his approval ratings are low. His surprise proposal to adopt a parliamentary resolution condemning the "genocide" in Srebrenica looks likely to further deplete Tadic’s political capital. It is unclear why Tadic, usually obsessed with his public image, would embark on an adventure that would score him no political points. His explanation that "policies of recognizing the suffering of others and respecting the victims of others can gain credibility on the international scene" (B92) rings hollow. For almost a decade, Serbia has wallowed in self-abasement and issued apologies for the suffering actually or allegedly caused by Serbs. It did nothing to lessen the demonization of Serbs, both in the West and in the immediate neighborhood, nor did anyone else issue similar apologies for the suffering of Serbs. In fact, everyone has taken Serb groveling as vindication of their own policies, from Croatia’s Mesic and the Muslims of Bosnia, to Washington, Brussels, and the KLA in Kosovo.
Serbian media have quoted several European officials — notably Jelko Kacin and Doris Pack — who not only strongly endorsed the Srebrenica resolution, but also dismissed the demands of several Serbian parties to include the condemnation of crimes against the Serbs, whether in the same resolution or separately. Could it be that the resolution is being pushed not because of Tadic’s sense of morality, but to please the EU and NATO?
By the time Tadic announced his Srebrenica initiative, Serbia was already embroiled in a debate on NATO. Alliance membership isn’t officially on the table, and a binding parliamentary resolution from 2007 demands Serbia’s neutrality, but Defense Minister Dragan Sutanovac (a senior official of Tadic’s party) has recently argued that joining NATO would be part of a "natural process" for Serbia and bring political and economic benefits. In response, a group of 200 public personalities put forth a petition that NATO membership had to be approved by a referendum. This prompted a hysterical campaign by NATO proponents in the mainstream media — largely beholden to the government — denouncing the referendum supporters as "retrograde" forces seeking to overthrow democracy (!).
The only reason Tadic is capable of surviving this turmoil is the impression his spin doctors have carefully nurtured in public that his regime is the only game in town, and that a policy of submission to the EU "has no alternative."
Crackdown
When Tadic was re-elected president, in January 2008 — an event that most likely triggered the Albanians’ declaration of dependence in Kosovo — he campaigned on a platform "Both Kosovo and Europe." This was meant to disarm his critics, who argued that giving up the occupied province would be the price of EU entry. Though events have since proved those critics right, Tadic has continued the charade for domestic political consumption.
Most EU members have recognized the occupied province as an independent state. The UN mission that helped create a provisional Albanian government has since been largely replaced by a EU "law and order" mission, whose understanding of law and order has mostly involved setting convicted killers free.
Now, however, the EU mission, NATO and the Albanian regime have set their sights on eliminating the Serb enclave in the north of the province that continues to reject their authority. Hashim Thaci, leader of the terrorist KLA and now "Prime Minister of Kosovo," recently announced a strategy to "strengthen the sovereignty" of his government in the north, with the full support of the EU mission and NATO "peacekeepers."
In fact, NATO commander in charge of the region, Adm. Fitzgerald (USN), called the Serb authorities in the north a "cause for concern," since they were not approved by the UNSCR 1244! Neither was the "Republic of Kosovo," but that doesn’t seem to have stopped NATO or the EU, now has it? In fact, NATO and the UN mission have systematically violated 1244 since it came into effect. But now they care what it says? It appears, however, that this irony was completely lost on Adm. Fitzgerald.
Triumph of Hypocrisy
Once described as a compliment vice pays to virtue, hypocrisy has itself become a virtue in the world "order" created by the post-Cold War imperial America, starting with the Balkans but reaching all over the globe since. Judging by the tone set by the first three weeks of 2010, "truth" and "reality" are likely to remain largely imaginary concepts in the region, at least for the local political leaderships and their foreign overlords. How long that state of affairs can actually last without self-destructing is anybody’s guess.
Read more by Nebojsa Malic
- Return to the Fold – January 26th, 2012
- Tides of Darkness – January 6th, 2012
- Fallout – December 23rd, 2011
- EUphoria – December 9th, 2011
- Sixteen Candles – November 24th, 2011





conumishu
January 23rd, 2010 at 6:24 am
Very good article, as usual. And sad. Let's hope the EU monstousity is not going to last.
They're not merely hypocrites, they're far worse.
antares
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:17 am
Malić is bosnian Serb. He is not neutral. That is that Srb point of view
MichaelKenny
January 23rd, 2010 at 2:17 pm
In other words, politics as usual. That's good news for everybody except the defenders of the American Empire. Most of all, it's good news for the EU. The Empire's loss is the EU's gain.
yellowJ
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:13 am
idiotic article
Suvorov
January 23rd, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Great article. It is possible that Tadic will end up the same way Yuschenko did due to his divisive policy of pushing his country into NATO, just as Ukraine's president has been doing for several years now. But in a way it is more apt to compare Yuschenko to Mesic, considering that the former has a few days remaining in office and he also made some highly polarizing comments, claiming that NATO is Ukraine's only chance of survival.
Suvorov
January 23rd, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Michael Kenny,
Has it ever occured to you that EU might be the Empire's instrument rather than an opponent? Especially when it comes to policy in the Balkans, the difference between the two is not noticeable. Your comments astonish me. I still cannot grasp how someone who has read this article can believe that the author is a supporter of the American Empire.
Andy
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:36 pm
Maybe so but I would certainly think Serbs are more entitled to a point of view here then Americans are.
iko
January 24th, 2010 at 6:24 am
Acknowledgment of wrongs is not 'wallowing in self abasement', Serbia has much to account for in its involvement in its neighbours' affairs. Serbia knows too painfully that there is no explanation for someone to end their life in a mass grave because they were declared culturally, religiously, or politically incorrect. Tadic's recognition of the crimes of Srebrenica was inevitable as the accumulative evidence now is approaching the reality of the forecasts made in 2001 and 2003 by the UN. The 2009 first report by the Research and Documentation Centre painstakingly maps out through the numbers the reality of the death, dying and burial throughout BiH. Their second report in 2010 will reveal the consequences of the armed conflict in deaths by denial access to food, water, shelter, medicines and the psychological impact through deaths by suicide and misadventure. It also puts to rest the counterclaims of some Bos Serbs and Serbs made every year around July. The methods used by the Bos Serb and Serbs to fulfill their political ambitions were reprehensible and abhorrent . Tadic's gambit is by recognizing Srebrencia then there will be less pressure to re-visit the events of Foca, Bijeljina, Prijedor, Zepa and the siege of Sarajevo nor to explain the systematic destruction of the cultural heritage of BiH. It is the same logic of the Hague, go for the big fish and the smaller ones will be forgotten and everyone can go back to business as usual.
Mars
January 24th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
iko: I'm all for recognition of atrocities, absolutely. What I dislike is the fact that the other players to the conflict lack the contrition, honesty, decency, and/or political maturity to so much as acknowledge their own misdeeds against ethnic Serbs (or each other, e.g. Croats vs. Muslims), much less pronounce apologies for them. All that does is feed into a distorted picture of history, one being promulgated by the Hague which has been indeed painfully unwilling to indict individuals for atrocities against Serbs, or if it does so never portrays the political picture in the same way (i.e. joint criminal enterprise), and almost always gives light sentences to the individuals so indicted.
It is a shocking testament to the Hague's bias that Muslims have been effectively prosecuted for just one detention camp in all of Bosnia – Celebici. The dozens or hundreds of other camps they had in which they tortured Serbs and Croats throughout Bosnia (Zenica, Tuzla, Travnik, etc.) seemingly don't exist since the Hague did not see fit to indict the individuals responsible.
If some are less than joyful at Tadic's apologies, it is not because they do not support apologies for atrocities per se. They are dismayed at the fact that Tadic merely reiterates a frightfully false picture propagated by the Western media, Western governments, and ICTY. Serbs are making apologies. Why aren't others? Did they really do no wrong to Serbs?
John Badalian
January 24th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Dear Nebojsa- As the son of a U.S. Armenian immigrant, I see the NATO (read: Turkey and the United States) pressure tactics as not only wrong – to me they are mind-blowing! I guess it's perfectly fine or at least excusable to slaughter 1.5 MILLION Armenians in the Spring of 1915.
Gee, the Armenian Genocide was just one big traffic pile-up! Not the mind another million or so Armenians killed between 1896 and 1923 in serial pogroms. But, somehow, someway, the allleged execution of several hundred prisioners (POWs?) rises to the level of "Genocide"!?
Of course, Obama, despite his promises to the contrary, now sounds like another ambulance-chasing shyster when confronted on the Armenian issue.
The see the workings here of the Isreali Lobby, in combination with Turkish interests. While Israelis don't give a damn regarding Bosnians or Albanians, they sure do give a damn about their worsening relationship with powerful Turkey. All this is an effort to mollify the Turkish security elite; who in turn must mollify their restive Moslem populace, who have suffered greatly from the global downturn.
Andy
January 24th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
A mess America should have stayed out of altogether.
Karl
January 25th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Good piece. Thank you for pointing our attention to the development in regard to Northern Kosovo. This sounds like it could turn ugly.
iko
January 26th, 2010 at 3:16 am
Mars up until recently there has been no real recognition by Serbs either from Serbia or RS that there were any wrong doings. Given that they used as their tactics from the onset of the conflict the same terror, that many knew first hand from WW2, the disbelief by many that this same horror was released after all the years of relative peace accompanied by a sense of progress from this barbarism, then it is not surprising that there is a reluctance to acknowledge the evils that came as a consequence of this terror. You are right, if there is no acknowledgment, just resolution and apology then there will be no reconciliation but the process must be an initiative of the perpetrators. Tadic has made this step, the next is reconciling the incongruity of a homogeneous cultural entity in an historical multicultural land.
Miko
January 26th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
So antares, even if he is Bosnian Serb, might they ever have a right to say something, or have someone to say something on their behalf? It is Serbian skin that has been burned, not yours. Shouldn't we here the ather side too?
Right on Mr Malic! Keep on uncovering concield, and opening the eyes of the seemingly blind. Perhaps the Emperor doesn't have any cloths on?
Miko
January 26th, 2010 at 7:23 pm
Thanks to Mr. Malic perfect review it is to be hoped that the twisted picture of causes and consequesnces from the Balkans in the past time till now will be somewhat corrected. It is unfair to focus to Srebrenica case without looking for the rightfull cause of it. The previous slaughter of thousends of Serbian population surrounding that little town by Muslim thugs must have something to do with Srebrenica. Plain collection of every Muslim body killed in previous battles in Srebrenica area and portraying them as Srebrenica victim hardly amounts the real truth. Tadic appologies, judging from the after WWII experiences, will not do nothing good to the real justice and truth. Serbs were after WWII the only apologetic side in ex Yu, while the Cro and Bos Muslims side, the real collaborators with faschists never appolgised. The chair standing on one lag collapsed. Nothing built on lies stands the test of time. Your theory Iko will not either.
Nikole J
January 27th, 2010 at 2:58 am
Iko — do I understand you to say that Serbia is an homogenous cultural entity? All the former republics of Yugoslavia are now homogenous. They have evicted their minorities or made life very uncomfortable for them. Serbia is the entity with the minorities and is the only one that can be called 'multicultural'.
iko
January 27th, 2010 at 9:26 am
I was referring to RS 92% Serb in BiH.
iko
January 27th, 2010 at 10:37 am
Actually the federal entity of BiH is still the more multicultural followed by Montenegro, Macedonia, then Slovenia, Serbia and Croatia both with approximately 89% Serb or Croat respectively, with an assortment of minorities making up the rest, are an equal 5th place.
Nebojsa Malic
January 27th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
"iko" where do you get this information? Given that there hasn't been a census in Bosnia since 1991, and that no reliable source of demographic information exists, I find it hard to believe what you just posted. If Croats make up some 17% of BH population (down from 17% in 1992), and they are concentrated in the Federation – where very few Serbs remain – that would still make the Federation over 80% Muslim overall, and close to 100% in places. That's only "multicultural" if you consider "Bosnian", "Bosniak" and Muslim to be different "cultures".
Nebojsa Malic
January 27th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
"iko", you are just flat out wrong here. If there is one consistent theme in interviews with Serb political, cultural, religious or dissident figures, it is a variation of "We are not angels, we suffered too." On the other hand, Muslims, Croats or Albanians all maintain that they suffered *exclusively*, and that they have done absolutely nothing wrong, ever.
Your mention of WW2 is a prime example. You speak of "terror" and "barbarism" supposedly perpetrated by the Serbs and held in check by Communists – but the actual campaign of genocidal extermination at that time was conducted by the Croat Ustasha and their Bosnian Muslim allies. Ironically, I agree that there has to be acknowledgment of atrocities for there to be peace; it's just that you're barking up the wrong tree about it.
Bojan
January 27th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
Dear Mr. Garris,
I've received your response through the e-mail. Thanks. However, I'd just like to explain my motives a little further, having found your remark about "name-calling" a bit too unfair.
First of all, I WAS NOT trying to silence an opponent by unfairly labeling him "fascist" or anything similar. Unfounded accusations of that sort I happen to find as deplorable as you do, and I haven't acted in such way in ANY single comment I wrote at your site. The whole Balkan mess may often sound a too complicated one, even to an acquainted non-Balkan observer. However, this Iko fellow doesn't sound like an average foreigner, the man's just too acquainted with the region, so his evident falsehoods and this gruesome attempt to use the WW2 as an argument against the most obvious victims of Nazi and Ustasha atrocities (namely, Serbs, in this case Bosnian Serbs) were just too outrageously provocative to be left unanswered. If I sounded too appalled by his nasty little game – I do belong to the nation whose almost every single family (including my own) lost too many members during that very same WW2. Since Iko has been trying to cover those facts with these outrageously vicious comments (perfectly aware how manipulative, false and insulting they might sound to ANYONE even remotely familiar with the Balkan WW2 facts &figures), he left me no choice but to name his despicable little techniques in proper way. If my comment did sound a bit too heated, I'm sorry, but – the ball was not on my turf, someone should have instructed him to leave the victims of the WW2 out of his outrageously chauvinist agenda in the first place.
So I WAS NOT name-calling, I was just stating the facts, easy to check just a few Google-clicks away.
As for resubmitting my comment, even if I were particularly eager to self-censor myself, I haven't saved it: plus, since Mr. Malic added a sane (and, I admit, quite a calmed-down one, unlike mine) refutation to Iko's lies, there is nothing to add.
Best wishes ad keep up the good work.
Bojan
January 27th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
This response was meant to be an answer to this site's administrator, who has informed me that my comments in regard to Iko's false and insulting statements toward the victims of Nazi and Ustasha genocide in the Balkans 1941-5 (precisely, his attempt to USE the WW2-argument in defense of the VERY sides in the recent Balkan conflict that were ideologically tied to Nazis and Ustasha in their fight against the Serbs) were too heated and unfit to publish. I was just explaining the motives for sounding as harsh as I did in those comments. Feel free to delete this as well, there's no use of it without the unpublished comments. I hope a clarified my position and my reasons for writing them and I meant this reply only as an answer to administrator. Thanks.
Mars
January 28th, 2010 at 4:33 am
iko:
Republika Srpska stats:
YearSerbs %Muslims %Croats %Others %Total
1991869,85455.4%440,74628.1%144,4149.2%114,4947.3%1,569,332
19961,427,91296.8%32,3442.2%15,0281.0%40.0%1,475,288
20061,267,00088%127,0008%58,0004%70.0%1,439,673
Federation:
YearMuslims %Croats %Serbs %Others %Total
19911,423,59352.3%594,36221.9%478,12217.6%223,9978.2%2,720,074
19961,773,56672.5%556,28922.8%56,6182.3%58,1922.4%2,444,665
Looks to me like the Serbs expelled 550,000 Croats and Muslims, and the Croats and Muslims expelled 420,000 Serbs. So while there may be some differences in numbers, in substance, they don't look very different to me. Also not that the Federation as a whole is "multiethnic" but the Croat areas have become "more Croat" and the Muslim areas have become "more Muslim." In other words, the Federation is largely fractured into cantons in which Croats or Muslims vastly predominate, but there are few mixed areas anymore.
Mars
January 28th, 2010 at 5:03 am
I think the outraged comments are understandable given the reference Iko makes to WW2 and alleged Serb barbarity (but not of others, of course), but I think a dispassionate response is called for.
The reality of the matter is that the Serbs of all ex-Yu ethnic groups have had the most mature approach to their own culpability. In a way, they had no other choice, because Western media, politicians, the ICTY, and local "enemy" sources repeatedly made assertions of Serb atrocities and a good number of them have been confirmed as true. I am afraid to say that in the early phases of the war (say, 1991 and 1992) most Serbs were outright dismissive of the atrocity allegations because they could not believe that a nation that was the victim of genocide in WW2 could harbor individuals capable of repeating such acts (albeit on a much smaller and non-genocidal scale, but in many ways equivalent in viciousness). Unfortunately, some of these allegations did turn out to be true. The detention camps were brutal places where people were tortured, beaten, raped, and sometimes killed. There were heinous atrocities, particularly in places like Visegrad and Foca. I think it would be accurate to say that most Serbs reject any association with the atrocities perpetrated by the likes of Milan Lukic, and that the vast majority (certainly in Serbia) had no idea such things were even taking place when they did take place.
However, just because the (Bosnian) Serbs are aware of atrocities perpetrated by their compatriots, does not mean that they reject the war cause and are willing to tolerate a political reorganization of the area. The Bosnian Serbs have desired to be free of Muslim domination since the days of the Ottomans, and whether it comes in a Turkish form or a Serb (i.e. ethnic Serb, religious Muslim) form is irrelevant. Without Yugoslavia or Serbia to safeguard their rights, they will not tolerate being ruled from Muslim-dominated Sarajevo, and I think their desires (taking history into consideration) are not unreasonable.
On the other hand, Croats, Muslims, Albanians, and Westerners are mostly ignorant of atrocities perpetrated by their compatriots, because they apparently think that if it wasn't reported by the media it didn't happen. Unfortunately, Serbs do not have "friends in high places," so they cannot enjoy a pliant Western media to paint a picture as favorable to their view as it has been to the non-Serb viewpoints. Nor is there a court like the ICTY which will issue indictments for atrocities perpetrated against them. Let us be honest: indictments for Celebici, Oric, Kubura/Hadzihasanovic, and Gotovina are window-dressing. There were dozens of camps for Serbs besides Celebici, and no others have come before the ICTY. Oric got away with 2 years. Kubura/Hadzihasanovic and Gotovina are military figures who were indicted 1.) as a mechanism of assuaging Bosnian Croat anger over ICTY bias (for Hadzihasanovic/Kubura), and 2.) as a token indictment of a Croatian figure. Where are the indictments for Alija Izetbegovic for bringing in mujahedeen who were known to be perpetrating atrocities? What about the paramilitary Green Berets? The Mosque Doves? The Black Swans? Alija's Men? Where are the indictments for the individuals who perpetrated the Gospic massacre in 1991 or the many anti-Serb massacres going on in Vukovar 1991 before its fall? What about the Kazani pits on Mt. Trebevic where Serbs were massacred by Musan Topalovic Caco and their corpses dumped? Central Bosnia and many of the larger cities (e.g. Sarajevo, Tuzla, Zenica) witnessed enormous numbers of atrocities against Serbs and Croats and the indictment record has been very weak.
The ICTY has gone to great lengths to paint a false picture of these wars. It has, fundamentally, failed. Yes, it managed to label Srebrenica as genocide and it has managed to spin the picture of Greater Serbia/joint criminal enterprise. But for people who *really* want to know, it hasn't been able to silence the truth.
Hrebeljanovic
January 28th, 2010 at 6:45 am
"but I think a dispassionate response is called for. ". Why? A man needs to live in peace with his emotions. Why is it that mainstream media would not allow for Serbs to love their enemies? Because they are liars and cowards. Passion is called upon when hundreds of thousand murdered Orthodox Christian souls are crying for justice. Otherwise it is well written.
iko
January 28th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
If you read the earlier post it says that Serbs should know because they were the victims of such atrocities. To suggest that the terror tactics of 92 were limited to Visegrad and Foca is a gross misrepresentation of what happened along the Drina valley. To suggest that the ICTY is a political puppet of the West devoid of judicial Independence is remarkably juvenile. To suggest that Bos Muslims are 'Serbs with a fez' is a long standing spurious presumption. To suggest that there was a consistent unified allegiance of 'Bos Muslims' with the fascists from Croatia and Germany is a limited interpretation of the history. There were in '41 many examples of joint Bos Muslim and Serb cooperation as there were collaborations with the NDH. The oft referred Handzar SS division did not arise overnight whereas the revolt in France and its eventual disintegration did. The Bos Muslims associative groups were not alone in their betrayal of humanity through their association with the fascists or their practices. Retributive responses develop their own momentum and this crazed logic dictated many of the decisions of that period. Whilst Bos Serbs suffered greatly they, with their compatriots, also inflicted much suffering the more chilling, given the history of the 90's, is what happened in Foca-Canice region in '42-43. To suggest that one resolves political argument by murderous aggression or condoning such actions, paints a bleak future for all.
Hrebeljanovic
January 28th, 2010 at 7:00 am
Dear John, "But, somehow, someway, the allleged execution of several hundred prisioners (POWs?) rises to the level of "Genocide"!? " you have asked the right question. Somehow, in a perpetual orbital motion it eludes the mainstream media. Ask your family, ask your friends, ask anybody that you can the same question and I guarantee you, you will not get a straight answer.
Mars
January 28th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
iko:
Again, as I mentioned before, I think many Serbs were outright dismissive of atrocity reports in 1991 and 1992 because they could not believe that the victims of genocide in 1941-1945 could perpetrate acts of a similar viciousness, albeit much smaller scale and systematization, 50 years later. Sadly, there were instances of atrocities by Bosnian Serbs in 1992 that sound like they came out of a Ustasha handbook. I agree that Handzar is a side show since it came about in 1944, but to deny that Muslims were deeply entrenched in the Ustashe from the very start of 1941 is delusional. Having some knowledge of the experiences of two Serb ladies from Nevesinje, the Muslims were almost universally aligned with the Ustashe in that area of Bosnia-Herzegovina and in a good many others. It is not without reason that Dzafer-Beg Kulenovic was vice president of the NDH and that Pavelic called them "blossoms of Croathood."
The point is that these atrocities did not occur in a vacuum. You deliberately ignore atrocities by the other side, often in the same areas. Did the Serbs have the upper hand in Podrinje? Absolutely. But Muslims were also conducting atrocities against the Serbs of the area (this doesn't include Oric's deeds, only atrocities against Serbs in the Foca, Visegrad, Gorazde, Rudo areas):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73yaib6Pikw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLXf2yC3sSk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jtXUZ3ZzrU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCQDP_z9Vg4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bqPQa5BecI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K2zIcEutGE
Should the Bosnian Serbs apologize for any atrocities they committed? Absolutely. But there can be no reconciliation without Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats undergoing a similar process of introspection, reflection, and contrition. They have not even begun the process of acquainting themselves with the atrocities, because their and Western media refuse to report on it.
I have not posted about events on the territory of central Bosnia/Herzegovina, but it is well known that some of the most significant towns and cities of the country are located here and that the expulsion and atrocities against Bosnian Serbs were numerous. Sarajevo, Tuzla, Visoko, Zenica, Gorazde, Maglaj, Gracanica, Bugojno, Gradacac, Mostar, Konjic, Travnik, etc.
So, I fail to understand why you call Serbs the aggressors and say that "the perpetrators" should initiate reconciliation. There were no "perpetrator nations" in the 1990s any more than there were "victim nations." The Serbs have done their part: even Serbs in Serbia have apologized for atrocities over which they had no control and very little role. Bosnian Muslims have not apologized for their atrocities. Croatia has not apologized for their atrocities. Bosnian Croats have not apologized for their atrocities. Kosovo Albanians have not apologized for their atrocities. NATO has not apologized for its atrocities. Saudi Arabia has not apologized for sending to Bosnia decapitating mujahedeen who conducted atrocities. Etc. Nobody but the Serbs are apologizing and the others are acting as if they were righteous and innocent lambs. They need a reality check!
Enough is enough. The Serbs have made their apologies and it's time they started receiving some in return. And that does include for 1941-1945, something that frankly makes the Bosnian war of 1992-1995 look minor, for which the Serbs are yet to receive an apology.
Hrebeljanovic
January 29th, 2010 at 2:32 am
Why don't you Mr. Iko visit this web page and tell us what do you think: http://4international.wordpress.com/2008/02/15/th…
iko
January 30th, 2010 at 9:34 am
I am familiar with the 'real srebrenica blog' are you as familiar with the 'srebrenica blogspot'? Having worked in the related industries of logistical analysis for 30 years, of the two the latter is far more compelling in their approach to data and transparency. The former has so many discrepancies that its creditability is sorely tested by their use of unsubstantiated and questionable references. A simple cross reference with the IDC/RDC's data base and the RS Army's own reports and the RS Commission of War Crimes which, whilst varying in numbers, are closer to each other than the figures to which the recommended web site attests. I suggest that you treat this as an academic exercise and examine the data not by persuaded by misguided allegiances. ( By that I don't mean Serbophilia but accuracy and verifiability. Your recommending reading fails on both counts.
iko
January 30th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Mars, suitably named, I won't begin the process of pointing to the list of atrocities inflicted upon BiH from the various groups that called themselves Chetniks, ironically the most known Mihalovic is probably the least responsible although his allegiances with the Nazis and leadership profile are well documented albeit his motivation less reported. Likewise, the Muslim clergy and the administrators of BiH played a dangerous game of collaboration and defensive strategies, neither of which worked for them compounding the dissension in their communities and the divisions in response, ranging from extreme to 'neutral compliance'. In that period no-one was exempt from survival strategy, which I allude to in the earlier 'chats'.
I have the impression that you are not familiar with the activities of the 'Chetniks' ( a collective term that confusedly mixes patriots and fanatics together- the events of the 90's where the paraphernalia of the stereotypical Chetnik was promoted is a sad corruption of the origins of 'outlaw' resistance) beyond the selective interpretation of Serb Nationalists. You cannot begin to see the context without an open examination. The point of Serbian command in BiH in the 1990's is what we call a 'no-brainer' – the sequence is readily accessible from the 1990/1 arms shipments from Lebanon, Russia and Greece and their distribution in 1991 and the Yugoslav initiated motion of an Arms Embargo to the remarkably well organized distribution of arms, command and communication channels to the arming of special response units to the immediate evacuation of vulnerable residents in a target zone within BiH, along with the placement of heavy armaments and reinforced supply routes and the well organised hand over of resources from JNA to RS Army. No war happens overnight and when one appears to occur as such then those of us who are aware of the logistics of such preparation know what has happened and when it began and potentially what it costs. To state that Serbia was an innocent onlooker is naive to the point of imbecilic or delusional or dis-informative. I suspect the latter. My Serb friends and there are many agree with your sentiments regarding their disbelief that such things happened in the name of a 'greater Serbia' knowing that there is nothing great that comes from such tactics, but i am always surprised at how limited is their understanding of BiH itself and the recorded activities of Serb nationalists during WW2- the older grew up with one too many 60-70's Partisan film and the younger are so defensive about Serbian altruism that they it takes a praiseworthy effort to gain an objective foothold to begin the process of investigation.The fundamental question is how much do you regard a human life. If you see it as a political instrument then you can rationalise most things hence fascism, if you see it as a person irrespective of religion or allegiance to a counterpoint of one's own then you can only be frustrated, angered but motivated to joust, prod, engage in the unending dialogue of the paradox of difference.
iko
January 30th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
A final post, it is my perception based upon nigh on 40 years research and contact with BiH and Bosnians, ie those who live there, that no matter the cultural manners or religious persuasion, or lack thereof, or geographic location, there are more things they share than divide them, tragic-ironically more so than what unites them with their cousins in Croatia and Serbia. Sometimes it is an outsider that can see things that insiders have become blind to, through familiarity or uncertainty. I appreciate the converse also holds true but when I need advice, sociological, medical, psychological I look for an objective clinical yet compassionate viewpoint not someone experiencing similar symptoms. There was, and I trust still can exist, a uniqueness about someone from Bosnia that I also found in my many times in Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia all of whom were clearly differentiated by this relative uniqueness.
With BiH it’s not the architectural skyline or the mixture of places of worship or lamb versus pig on the spit or the neighbouring ‘selo’ ‘varos’ ‘gradic’ ‘grad’ being culturally of different compositions, it is something that comes from the humour, the generosity of spirit, the sense of connection with the landforms, the once almost sibling rivalry between cultural groups and the unifying passions of the different cadences, tempos and lyrics of the music. This is not the wistful soft focused nostalgia of an older person, seduced by the visual exotica of the remnants of the Ottomans, it is a refined perception that comes from studying differences. Nothing good has ever come from political or cultural segregation. I have long standing friendships with Bos Serbs, Croats and Muslims/ Bosnjaks ( they take exception to the emotive and exclusive use of Muslims to categorise them ) and have shared many occasions, formal and informal, in mixed company and individually and have noted that each of them is a stronger person because of the company of the other or rather the proximity of the other. The division of BiH is worse than artificial it is a rendering of that thing that we all strive for, the simple human right to be accepted for who we are.
The media fueled frenzy of 90 and 91 created the dangerous atmosphere of false assumptions and the Shakespearean moral paradigm of the ‘serpent’s egg’ which created the receptivity of accepting division as inevitable. What tragic foolishness. What calculated expediency. I will always love what Bosnia aspired/s to be and always shun the ugly attempts to create apartheid. I recorded the utterings of the masked gunman on the streets of Sarajevo April 6th 1992 and recoiled when I heard his Serbian language as it said all. I recorded the daily reports of encirclement and expulsion by the ‘Serb paramilitary’ units and decades later referenced the accuracy of the reports. How many occasions can you claim that such happened by ‘Muslim’ forces in the first 6 months of 1992? The wickedness of engineering division is that is far too easy to do – all it need is to spill the blood of innocence and all hell is let loose. For this reason I put the responsibility, at al levels, at the foot of Milosevic’s Serbia and the motley crue that he inspired. The political circus of Bosnia’s attempts at democratic elections in 1991-2 was a sideshow to the main event of the military strangulation of Bosnia. It was a decision made well prior to the rhetoric in Sarajevo and Pale in 1992. The perpetrators are all too visible, but I suspect that your sensitivities will prevent you from ever seeing them. Such is your lot and I pity you for it.
Mars
January 30th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
iko: where in Bosnia were you during the war?
My father's best friend was a Sarajevo Serb who was kidnapped by Muslims and never again seen; Muslim neighbors now occupy his flat (perhaps they were vying for it before the war?)
If you weren't in Zenica, Bugojno, Mostar, Gorazde, Tuzla, and many other lesser known places during the early days of the war (e.g. Maglaj, Lukavac, Gracanica, Jajce, Gradacac, Visoko, etc.) you cannot possibly know first hand what was happening to the Serb population in these areas, can you? In the absence of personal experience or careful reading of documentation presented by the 'other' side, you cannot pretend to be an expert on who or what tore Bosnia apart.
The central issue here is that Muslims and Croats in Bosnia ganged up on the Serbs and pushed through a political decision opposed by over 1/3 of the population which lived on over 1/2 of the territory of the country. A decision that had profound implications for the security and welfare of this population, given WW2 Ustasha/Muslim genocide against Serbs and given the general second-class status and not infrequent brutality they experienced under Ottoman rule. So it is quite the opposite of what you have here said: Muslims and Croats decided to subvert the established political order of all three ethnic groups making decisions and tried to use their strength in numbers to drown out the Serb voice.
We have spoken of causes, now to instigation. What were the very first atrocities of the war?
1.) March 1, 1992: the unprovoked killing of the father of the groom (Nikola Gardovic) and wounding of the priest (Radenko Mitrovic) at a Serb wedding passing through Bascarsija. The perpetrator: a certain Ramiz Delalic going by the nickname of Celo. Gardovic's crime was that he was waving a Serb flag and singing a Serb song. Delalic explains in the video that he wanted to demonstrate that Sarajevo and the Carsija was not Serbia and this is why Gardovic had to die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkr1L1Mtf2Y
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramiz_Delalić
2.) Add to this the March 26, 1992 massacre of Serbs in the village of Sijekovac in Bosanski Brod by Muslim-Croat forces, it is understandable that many Bosnian Serbs felt they had to wage war to defend their interests and in many cases their lives.
On Sijekovac: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99S2M7Ny_HE
I'm not justifying the numerous heinous atrocities perpetrated by some Serbs particularly in 1992. I am saying that your version of events: of peaceful tolerant Bosnia destroyed by Serbs is a fairytale. You would do well to inform yourself of the deeds of all three sides and *when* they happened before you go about accusing the Serbs or Milosevic of starting the bloodshed. Andric said in 1929 about Bosnia being a "land of fear and hatred." He was right.
Bojan
January 30th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
iko · 2 days ago
If you read the earlier post it says that Serbs should know because they were the victims of such atrocities.
____________________
No, it doesn't. What you've said in the post that had caused my reaction, was this:
"Given that they used as their tactics from the onset of the conflict the same terror, that many knew first hand from WW2, the disbelief by many that this same horror was released after all the years of relative peace accompanied by a sense of progress from this barbarism, then it is not surprising that there is a reluctance to acknowledge the evils that came as a consequence of this terror."
Either you've just expressed yourself a bit too carelessly, or (more likely, given the unbelievably tendentious nature of your other comments), you've performed a conniving little trick that Croat and Bosniac chauvinist are so typically prone to on foreign sites, hoping that Americans are generally ignorant on the Balkans and that nobody would object to your attempt to turn the facts upside down and suggest that THE SERBS in Bosnia had committed the Ustasha and Bosnian Muslim SS Hanjar Division atrocities, instead of having been, along with the region's Jews and Roma, the collective victim of Hitler's and Pavelic's barbarity, never before seen through the written record of human history
Bojan
January 30th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
"I recorded the utterings of the masked gunman on the streets of Sarajevo April 6th 1992 and recoiled when I heard his Serbian language as it said all. I recorded the daily reports of encirclement and expulsion by the ‘Serb paramilitary’ units and decades later referenced the accuracy of the reports. How many occasions can you claim that such happened by ‘Muslim’ forces in the first 6 months of 1992?"
Oh, c'mon now, you're being outright ridiculous. Evil Masked Gunman on the streets of Sarajevo, speaking … SERBIAN? Now, THAT proves it all, doesn't it? Esp. while attempting to sell this cock-and-bull hoot to the people who had never heard a WORD of language spoken in Bosnia, much less know the fact that all of its groups speak THE SAME language (of course, now with the national prefix in every group, but prior to the war, it's been officially called Serbo-Croatian language). Plus, Sarajevan accent is so distinctive that you can't miss it in the room full of Bosnians from other regions, not to mention Serbia, Croatia or Montenegro.
As for the apartheid policy and its perpetrators, would it help if I recall (as a school kid in Serbia back then) that BY JUNE 1992, my class was filled with new friends, Serbian boys and girls cleansed from this paradise you're recollecting. Perhaps they all have been the evil Serbian paramilitaries, along with their parents and grandparents, camouflaged as underage civilians, having DELIBERATELY been born and raised in the city they planned to conquer: luckily, the peace-loving (Saudi-funded, SS Hanjar-flag-waving) Izetbegovic's regime read them like a book and thrown them out just in time.
Now, seriously: as for the (well-documented and easily provable) fact that the Muslim-dominted part of Sarajevo during the war was used as a prison and a mass graveyard, for a few thousand Serbian CIVILIANS. How would you rationalize that?
I guess it's hopeless, but I'll repeat what Mars keeps saying here: FAR FROM attempting to defend ANY evil deed done by ANY Serb (as you've been doing with the Muslim/Croat crimes all along), but, ARE YOU SERIOUSLY SAYING that no other group involved in Bosnian/Croatian/Kosovo war, has NO NEED to apologize for ANY crime committed to Serbian women, children, POWs..?
Hrebeljanovic
January 31st, 2010 at 2:06 am
Any site that is funded by the western propaganda machine has no credibility for anyone who is aware of its dirty deeds. Why don't you point out just one reference under those photographs on "real Srebrenica genocide blog" that is false? In your first post you wrote a straight out and criminal lie and now you write about credibility and academics. I suggest to you that you first use your gray matter before immersing yourself in falsehoods. I do pity you and your ilk.
AntiCNN
January 31st, 2010 at 3:36 pm
Mesic is a peasant-minded trog and, apparently a fan of the loathsome English despot Margret Thacther
Bojan
January 31st, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Well, Maggie would be a giant leap ahead, given that the current Croatian president Stjepan Mesic (lately, a self-proclaimed peace-loving anti-fascist) had started his political career back in 1991, in the tender age of 54, by PRAISING the monster Pavelic and Ustasha slaughterhouse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLaIDT8FZHw&NR…
Now THAT was the political reality for Serbs in Croatia in 1991. A newly-installed, OPENLY pro-fascist, Ustasha-apologizing government elected by a solid Croat MAJORITY, with an OPENLy racist, Pavelic-praising, Serb-hating agenda (president Franjo Tudjman was openly pro-Ustasha, anti-Serb and anti-Semitic politician who wrote a couple of bizarre Holocaust-denying "historical" books). Serbs were kicked out from the Constitution, and openly threatened by Ustasha vocabulary and symbolism that kept poisoning the very mainstream of Croatian social and political atmosphere increasingly during the early 1990s.
Judging by the sheer malevolence of the Western Tudjman-loving political circles and inteligentsia towards ANY mention of the fate that the Serbs of Krajina and Croatia suffered, it seems that the Serbs in Croatia committed the mortal sin by DEFENDING themselves against the imminent ambition of Croatian govt. to finish the job their ideological founders started in 1941.
Dejan
February 1st, 2010 at 11:52 pm
Ah, but if you include kosovo, serbs are hardly 89% and as of today Kosovo is still technically part of serbia. The policy of outside powers is creating ethnically pure countries such as Kosovo or Croatia. Of course Croatia is nearly pure croat after so many serbs were ethnically cleansed from Krajina. Of course, now Kosovo is nearly pure due to serbs being ethnically cleansed. With Kosovo, Serbs were only about 65 to 70% of the population. So in a way, you can thank the policies of pro-Kosovo independence nations for creating a more "pure" serbia…..
Dejan
February 2nd, 2010 at 12:05 am
Your absolutely on point my friend. My family is from Sijekovac and i recently visited there. My neighbor there is a Muslim who fought WITH the Serbs to preserve yugoslavia. He told me of the original attacks by muslims and croats PRIOR to the war starting. This was never reported in western press simply cause it doesnt fit in with their fictitious version of events. But I can say from personal experience that what you said is absolutely correct. Research ismet Djuric. He was our neighbor…..