The American Empire, RIP
January 31, 1968 marked the beginning of the end….
When will historians of the future date the beginning of the decline and fall of the American empire?
The question may seem presumptuous. The idea that the American Century is a relic of the past, and we are entering a "new world order" of divided rather than hegemonic power, is relatively new, and still controversial. There are those who insist it ain’t necessarily so, primarily neocons of the second mobilization such as Robert Kagan, who are quick to reassure all right-thinking patriotic Americans that we’re still Number One and warn against the fatal lure of committing "superpower suicide."
To the rest of us, however – that is, to everyone outside the neocons’ cultic universe – the signs of the Great American Contraction are everywhere, most noticeably in the incomes, productivity, and general economic well-being of ordinary Americans. Our own CIA – never a friend to the neocons, but that’s another story – avers this condition is the single greatest threat to our national security: not Iran, not terrorism, but the very real threat of national bankruptcy. Our national debt is over 100 percent of GDP.
I would make the case, however, that the seeds of American decline were planted much earlier, during the cold war era. And if I had to pick a specific date that marked the beginning of the end, I would settle on January 31, 1968 – the day the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese forces began the Tet offensive, which was militarily a setback for them, but politically disastrous for the administration of Lyndon Baines Johnson.
Tet was costly for the Viet-Cong and North Vietnamese forces, but their decision to launch an all-sided assault on South Vietnam’s cities wasn’t entirely calculated for its military effect. As General Giap put it years later: "For us, you know, there is no such thing as a single strategy. Ours is always a synthesis, simultaneously military, political and diplomatic – which is why quite clearly, the Tet offensive had multiple objectives."
Militarily, their success was uneven and hardly decisive: they did not take any major cities, and those villages they took they couldn’t hold on to. On the diplomatic and political front, however, they came out the clear victors: their goals were to drive a wedge between the South Vietnamese government and Washington, on the one hand, and between Washington and the American people on the other. Their bold attacks on Saigon itself, which underscored the weakness of our South Vietnamese sock puppets, achieved the former, while television footage of American soldiers rushing to stop an enemy that seemed to be everywhere achieved the latter. Public support for the war plummeted. Gen. William Westmoreland, commander of US forces in Vietnam, demanded more troops: his request was denied when the White House concluded the war was unwinnable. A few months later, Johnson announced he would not seek reelection.
But of course the war wasn’t unwinnable, as conservatives at the time protested: we could have sent the 200,000 troops Westmoreland requested, and initiated a Vietnamese "surge" which might have pushed the Viet Cong back. Indeed, we could have sent a million men into that carnage, and the reason we didn’t was because it was no longer politically possible. The country had turned against the war and not even a stream of scare-mongering red-baiting invective coming from the neoconservatives of the day could turn the tide.
Today, the neocons bitterly denounce what they call the "Vietnam Syndrome," bemoaning its deleterious effect on their various schemes for world conquest, and – from their perspective – they are right to do so. Because if you worship at the altar of the war god, this Syndrome is a dangerous heresy: it means that the default of American foreign policy is caution rather than rollicking recklessness, prudence rather than mindless belligerence, realism rather than utopianism armed.
Of course, this did not mean the US would no longer engage in wars of aggression: Reagan’s attack on Grenada, the invasion of Panama, the first Iraq war, the Kosovo adventure, all these and more showed that the Washington crowd had hardly surrendered their global ambitions. Yet you’ll note that none of these wars were all that successful, or popular – and all were over rather quickly, with no permanent expansion of the Empire’s frontiers. George Herbert Walker Bush, you’ll recall, earned the neocons’ eternal enmity when he gave the order for US troops to pull back instead of marching on Baghdad
The Vietnam Syndrome was temporarily sidelined in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, but soon reasserted itself in growing opposition to the Iraq war. Our Afghan adventure has met the same fate, with the Obama administration trying to wind down this wildly unpopular war without giving the impression of a panicked retreat. Everybody remembers those helicopters hurriedly taking off from the roof of the American embassy in Saigon as the Viet-Cong marched in, and our rulers would rather not see a repetition of that edifying scene.
The Vietnam Syndrome is here to stay, and this is true for a number of reasons. The big problem for present day advocates of American imperialism is that we no longer have the resources to fight endless wars. Secondly, we don’t have the ideological motivation to engage in such a massive outlay of nonexistent resources: there is no competing ideology, like Communism or fascism, that serves as a credible enough threat. Efforts to replace the commie bogeyman with the specter of an Islamic "global caliphate" – never that convincing to begin with – foundered on the rocks of Al Qaeda’s apparent demise. (It’s alleged reappearance in such a marginal area as Mali only underscores the marginality of the "threat").
Thirdly, I would advance the speculative thesis that modernity is characterized by a turning inward on the part of individuals and nations: that a focus on the self-development of the individual, and his personal relations, is increasingly the trend as living standards rise and technology advances. Of course, this trend is not inevitable: nothing is inevitable when we’re talking about the choices human beings make. Some traumatic event could throw us back into pre-modernity, destroy the economic basis of our growing "isolationism," and embroil us in a series of wars. Nor is there anything necessarily admirable about this inward-turning trend: at its worst, it is simply narcissism, an unhealthy and debilitating obsession that can only end in a kind of cultural madness. Think of Nero fiddling while Rome burned.
In any case, the Tet offensive marked the beginning of the end of public support for our post-WWII foreign policy of global interventionism, and although there have been several attempts to roll back the Vietnam Syndrome since then, none have enjoyed anything but temporary success. Political support for grandiose foreign policy adventurism has simply evaporated, and no conjuring of ideological ghosts and demons – fear of "militant Islam," the alleged shame and perils of "declinism," nostalgia for the "American Century" – will raise it from the dead.
What this means, in the long term, is that America is slowly but surely retreating from the world stage – not out of any conviction, but out of necessity. The warlords of Washington may wish to conquer the world, but they are constrained from attempting to carry out their desires not only by economics but also by politics. The simple fact of the matter is that, after sixty or so years of global adventurism, America is economically and psychologically exhausted. We have neither the means nor the will to stay on the course set for us by the great internationalists of the 20th century. The 21st century is slated to be the age of a resurgent nationalism – which, in this country, has nearly always been inward-looking rather than outwardly aggressive.
In the short term, however, there is no telling what will happen, and before we reach the final stages of imperial senescence it may well be that we’re in for a whole series of bloody and debilitating wars.
It’s nice to know, however, that history is on our side. Now if only we can stop ourselves from blowing up the world before the curtain is drawn on the Age of Conquest.
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
I’m on Twitter quite a bit these days: you can follow me here.
Here is the link for buying the second edition of my 1993 book, Reclaiming the American Right: The Lost Legacy of the Conservative Movement, with an Introduction by Prof. George W. Carey, a Forward by Patrick J. Buchanan, and critical essays by Scott Richert and David Gordon (ISI Books, 2008).
Buy my biography of the great libertarian thinker, An Enemy of the State: The Life of Murray N. Rothbard (Prometheus Books,2000), here.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013





The American Empire, RIP - Unofficial Network
January 29th, 2013 at 9:06 pm
[...] View original article. [...]
Gekke
January 29th, 2013 at 9:45 pm
An interesting article, one sometimes wonders how sucessful the 1969 moon landings would have been without the impetus of the 1968 tet offensive.
eric siverson
January 29th, 2013 at 10:14 pm
The Caliphlateis is not floundering on the rocks becuase of the demise of AlQaida . If you take into consideration that the muslim brotherhood , the father of AlQaida has just taken over about 5 or six countries , after the demise of AlQaida . I think AlQaida is very much alive and well and has been fighting very successfully alongside of the brotherhood . You are right about the Caliphate maybe forgotten and the brotherhood seems to have left violence for democracy . But we will not really know for sure untill some opposition defeats the brotherhood in elections . Then and only then will we learn if they have givenup on the use of violence
Oswaldwasalefty
January 29th, 2013 at 11:12 pm
The U.S. didn't lose in Vietnam militarily. In fact, the U.S. achieved the military victory one would expect given the balances of forces in that conflict. The NLF was routed out of South Vietnam and into neighboring Cambodia and Laos. This makes the NLF the only military force in world history to be routed into retreat and subsequently declared the "victor". The war was settled in 1993 with Vietnam "agreeing" to pay the odious debts of the hated Saigon regime, after 18 years of economic warfare and successfully using China and Cambodia to continue the war against Vietnam. Vietnam would be integrated into the global economic order of Western cThe U.S. didn't lose in Vietnam militarily. In fact, the U.S. achieved the military victory one would expect given the balances of forces in that conflict. The NLF was routed out of South Vietnam and into neighboring Cambodia and Laos. This makes the NLF the only military force in world history to be routed into retreat and subsequently declared the "victor". The war was settled in 1993 with Vietnam "agreeing" to pay the odious debts of the hated Saigon regime, after 18 years of economic warfare and successfully using China and Cambodia to continue the war against Vietnam. Vietnam would be integrated into the global economic order of Western capitalism, with the "victors" of the conflict finding themselves gainful employment making products for export, like Nike shoes, with the "victors" of the conflict finding themselves gainful employment making products for export, like Nike shoes.
The U.S. is more powerful than ever militarily and don't expect Washington to be exiting the world stage any time as soon as long as it has this unprecedented military power. Expect more Libya style interventions in our post Iraq invasion world. Invasions that don't look like invasions. Use economic warfare and war from the air to pound an enemy government into submission, as they did in Libya.
Of course, the weak states that emerge from such a policy will be difficult to maintain, as recent events in Benghazi show. But Washington really doesn't have any other option available for flexing its military muscle.
Johnny in Wi.
January 29th, 2013 at 11:21 pm
The Empire has been a flop for almost 100 years. That is when Wilson dragged us into WW1. That led to WW2. WW2 led to a 50 year cold war. We beat Hitler to give his partner Stalin half of Europe and a lot of Asia. It also led to the atomic bomb and th nuclear nightmare. Since the end of the Soviet Union our elites are forever looking for more places to screw up. Now we are going to be in God forsaken Mali for who knows how long? The only way this empire ends, is when the troops mutiny and come home.
Chris Condon
January 29th, 2013 at 11:36 pm
I believe the 1969 moon landing may have been a hoax designed in part to offset the loss of American prestige brought about by Vietnam. If you can find the time, purchase a 3.5 hour video documentary entitled "What Happened on the Moon?" by David Percy and Mary Bennett. It lays out the case for the Apollo Moon Hoax. Bennett and Percy have a lot of evidence on their side.
Mark Thomason
January 29th, 2013 at 11:41 pm
"signs of the Great American Contraction are everywhere, most noticeably in the incomes, productivity, and general economic well-being of ordinary Americans."
That is bad government, inflicted on us by neocons and which we can't escape because of neocon tactics meant to prevent government from functioning. It is entirely their fault.
However, the whole world has been hurt by the economic crisis engineered by the neocons. Everyone is stumbling to a degree. Therefore, it is not the US world position that is in decline, it is the world economy.
The Empire goes on, as unmatched as it has ever been. The whole world is the victim of the neocons, because of the vast influence of the Empire.
It is not the end of American influence. It is just the damage done by the criminals among us.
mickperry
January 29th, 2013 at 11:44 pm
The US and UK leadership were tellingly out of sync last week, with Obama hinting at an end to perpetual war, and the UK coalition leadership warning that this war might go on for decades. Obviously both cannot be right, and the explanation is merely how the perception of war is now managed.
The empire's current penetration into Africa is beginning to resemble an earlier period of domination of central and South America, and an addiction to oil leaves it with two options; either to become an introspective frack-head or to venture abroad.
Winding down its Middle East operations will allow it to focus on the Eastern seaboard of the Americas and the Western seaboard of Africa, more specifically the Gulf of Guinea.
An oil tanker takes three weeks to travel from West Africa to the US, and eight weeks to arrive from the Persian Gulf.
Very little change in other words, except for location, method and ultimately expense.
James
January 30th, 2013 at 12:23 am
Tactical military gains have to be wedded to strategic political objectives in order for a war to be prosecuted successfully. Re-read your Clasuwitz please, the Vietnam war was a strategic and thus military defeat for the U.S., one of many…
Oswaldwasalefty
January 30th, 2013 at 12:56 am
Winners of wars don't find themselves working in sweat shops making shoes for billionaires like Phil Knight. And they don't find themselves on the Cambodia-Vietnam border living off of Cambodian surplus rice after they've been driven out of their country. Everybody acknowledges this is where this military juggernaut "defeating" the U.S. was. Clearly a retreating army that stood no chance against the mightiest military machine ever assembled. Nixon quickly took care of the problem of the surplus Cambodian rice feeding the retreating NLF by literally destroying it from the air.
So Washington threw in the towel trying to maintain the politically weak regimes it was holding together circa 1962-75. So what? The countries were left in ruins and to enjoy their sovereignty over the wreckage, and lucky to survive the ordeals they had been put through.
I compare Vietnam's 1993 surrender and agreement to pay the Saigon regimes odious debts to the Treaty of Saigon of 1862, or near, where Vietnam ceded sovereignty over Cochichina to France, and "agreed" to pay an indemnity to the invading French thieves. Old imperialist wine. New bottles.
jingles
January 30th, 2013 at 3:05 am
We can mobilize everyone, men, women and children from the age of 15 and up. We can storm Russia and if the weather permits, China. The best thing about invading China is that we can order take out before we conquer the rest of the world. When our victorious troops (all three of them) come home we can have victory parades in the radioactive rubble that was once known as the United States. Amerikkka uber alles.
john
January 30th, 2013 at 3:44 am
In the end people will focus on the well being of family and community, and not on any vague ideals of eliminating evil or establishing democracy. Thia tendency is reinforced by economic decline, which is why lower and stagnant wages, foreclosures, and job loss have their up side. People will in the end refuse to send their Social Security chcsks to Israel in support of Netanyahue's mad vision of a greater Israel; they will choose to bring home more in their paycheck rather then build more drones or nuclear submarines; and they will demand to give up empire for more focus on domestic well being.
Hans
January 30th, 2013 at 4:09 am
I found this cool quote by some old Roman dude and it kind of sums it up for me.
"They have plundered the world, stripping naked the land in their hunger… they are driven by greed, if their enemy be rich; by ambition, if poor… They ravage, they slaughter, they seize by false pretenses, and all of this they hail as the construction of empire. And when in their wake nothing remains but a desert, they call that peace." – Tacitus
Articles for Mid-Week » Scott Lazarowitz's Blog
January 30th, 2013 at 5:25 am
[...] Justin Raimondo: The American Empire, R.I.P. [...]
Smithboy
January 30th, 2013 at 5:31 am
Without the neocons pushing their agenda to 'Refashion" the middle east, resulting in the invasion of Iraq and the longest war in US history Afghanistan, the last forty years of US history would have been one of relative peace.
The turning point in modern warfare was the election of GW Bush and the infestation of radical Zionist into positions of policy making decisions. Had Gore been in office when 9-11 occurred, Gore probably would have followed Clinton's example of treating the bombings as a law enforcement, rather than a military, operation, saving the lives of 10,000 US troops, 30,000 soldiers would not be maimed for life, families would have their fathers and sons back, several million Iraqis would be alive and our treasury would not have been hit with trillions of dollars of debt and liability.
John V. Walsh
January 30th, 2013 at 7:42 am
Good points. But in overview essays of this type innthe US, three enormous events are overlooked. First the Bolshevik revolution which took Russia and a number of other countries out of the Western orbit forever – despite the fact that socialism was abandoned. Second Mao's revolution, inspired by Lenin's, cleared China of Western domination and began the restoration of China to world power status, again despite what appears to be a retreat from socialism. China and the Russian Federation are not "coming back, meaning that 1/4 of humanity now lives free of the West. Third, the defeat by the West of secular liberation movements of the Massadegh/Lumunba/Nasser type left only political Islam as an anti-imperial force. And in Iran it succeeded. Iran is gone. Its mullahs play the same role in preserving Iranian independence that the Chinese Communist Party plays in preserving China's. Judging from the democratic initiatives in Iran and the way the young women of Tehran dress, Iran is very likely to evolve in a way that leaves the mullahs in much the same roll as the Royal Family has in England. Iran is not coming back. And in Latin America and Africa sooner or later movements will arise to allow development which has not proved possible under the heel of the West. No matter what ideological hue these movements take on, they will work for liberation from economic domination of the West and for development.
Finally a footnote on Vietnam. The US setback there was not the first in East Asia following the Chinese revolution. The first was the Korean War with about the same number of US deaths as in Vietnam, 50,000. And 2 million Asians died there. We need a Nick Turse to tell us the true dimensions of the American crimes there. Perhaps Truman was the worst of war criminals to inhabit the US presidency. Observing the inability of the US to take more than 50,000 casualties, Mao saw it as a Paper Tiger. (Korea deserves far more attention than it has received in any analysis of the US Empire.). And Mao knew too well that any imperial power is just such a paper tiger, because it confronts others who are fighting for their homes, their loved ones and their very lives, the very things Justin points to as the main motivation in human life. Soldiers from half a world away cannot stand up to such determination IF it has the proper leadership. So Mao wisely said to Nixon that "China's troops stay at home."
Justin's points in this article are true enough. But they are very US-centric. The peoples of the world have had a lot to do with the decline of Western imperialism, including what will be its last gasp, the US Empire.
John V. Walsh
rwe2late
January 30th, 2013 at 8:32 am
Expansion is the only “economic necessity” for our leaders and the institutions they head.
That expansion entails a profit-making privatization of the world and all it contains.
Do not confuse the raison d’etre of the leadership with the rationalizations which motivate the led.
Do not mistake the internationalist transformation of the empire for a contraction of it.
The NY-London-NATO empire has gone global and aims for further globalization.
NATO is global. The corporations are global. The International Bank of Settlements is … global.
Labor arbitrage mercenaries. Militarization of proxy states (Israel, Japan, Ethiopia, Colombia, the nation of Georgia). Regional “security” alliances.
Black ops and drone assassinations. “Lily pad” bases. A “realist” resource allocation..
More and more, expect the geographic USA to be treated like any other province of the empire.
The ruination of the US will not mark the end of empire.
As some have noted, controlling the bulk of Mideast “vital” resources requires control of Iran.
How the “realists” will go about accomplishing that remains to be seen.
James
January 30th, 2013 at 9:03 am
Winners of wars are not occupied by foreign powers, which is what the Vietnam War and Indochina war were all about.
greedrulesinDC
January 30th, 2013 at 9:06 am
Could you leave out the "God forsaken" part? That implies the people are somehow savages, and the land is worthless. That is not the case. That said, I agree with what you've written.
I wish the troops would mutiny. They certainly aren't being treated as valuable human beings.
MvGuy
January 30th, 2013 at 9:24 am
NOT only was Vietnam an ignoble route for the FALSE FLAG DRIVEN U.S. ATTACK…… It cost the U.S. economy mightliy..!!! The silver taken out of the dollar, aluminum pennies, composite Quarters…. Brenton Woods SMASHED as the dollar lost the faith of traders…and plunged… was devalued and floundered….. America lost it's perch atop the economic heap….. There has been some up for the Dollar lately, but as more and more are created and printed to pay the $1,OOO,OOO,OOO,OOO.OO a year Empire Fee……… the problem gets unsustainable…. and demise inevitable…. War breeds war, debt breeds debt… the end becomes clearer and clearer…. I hope this comment doesn't get snuffed by the knap/keaton (s) Z crew as my last comment seems to have been. It was a comment on Mr. Rainondo's previous article on Monday….. Silly me, because there was no ad hominem content or what one could imagine as anything offensive… I didn't save a copy. Alas, I used the sometimes fatal word beginning with Jay. You know which one…. It's the word that the people of this group use to describe THEMSELVES…. Quite similar to Spanish, Irish and Danish…. surely no slight to 99% of people… All com-ments regarding them need to be copied B4 you click "Submit Com-ment" or it may "im-moderately" scuttled down the memory hole… Careful what you write here……
peter
January 30th, 2013 at 9:24 am
The American empire and the first BLACK president are cooking false FLAG, like september 11, 2001. According to the latest news:
{Leaked documents from a UK-based defense contractor has revealed a Qatari proposal to the firm to counterfeit a plan to claim that Syria has given the go-ahead for the use of chemical weapons in the country.}
An email exchange between two senior officials at Britam suggested that the scheme was approved by WASHINGTON, explaining that Qatar would fund the militants in Syria to use chemical weapons. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/01/30/286331/uk…
According to the documents, Qatar also suggested smuggling chemical warheads and rockets from Libya to the Syrian city of Homs.Qatar apparently asked the British company to employ and film a Ukrainian person speaking and pretending to be Russian as part of “evidence” against Syria.
ML3
January 30th, 2013 at 9:55 am
Tell that to the Vietnamese, the Communists seem to think they won the war, they have a huge celebration for it every year Apr. 30. And no foreigners' military bases parked on their soil either.
Mike
January 30th, 2013 at 10:06 am
Politicians are savages. We're just the dopes who are often dumb enough to listen to them.
omop
January 30th, 2013 at 10:06 am
Odd comment that, " It’s nice to know, however, that history is on our side." Would that be the history of the ancient Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Ottomans, the English or ours would be "different" cause we are God's special people.
Leave it to WC's quote, "the farther backward one can look, the farther forward one can see."
ML3
January 30th, 2013 at 10:12 am
Excellent analysis.
richard vajs
January 30th, 2013 at 10:15 am
It isn't the American Military Empire that is dying, it is the American Corporate Capitalistic Empire that is dying. Our military still has F35s, drones and thousands of nukes and we can recruit as many bright, young people as we want; but even the Vietnamese are beating us at making shoes, TVs or just about anything else. Our corporate capitalistic empire has attacked our own heartland, while our military was operating abroad. Our capitalists have turned their sights on pillaging and stripping bare our own country.
We will still be flying drones in Yemen, when the last Social Security Old-Age, Unemployment, or Welfare checks go out. Maybe, we will bring our troops home to protect the rich as a last resort.
The truly dangerous terrorists are on Wall Street – it needs to be carpet-bombed more than Damascus.
Dr.Khan
January 30th, 2013 at 11:19 am
Dude everyone bowing to the Empire of the Time.
If you still don't get it shame on you.ALCIADA=ALQAIDA-
Therefore,YES,as long ALCIADA is there you scapegoat Muzzzlim Brothhood will be spreading and takeover the world.
you moron.
Dr.Khan
January 30th, 2013 at 11:28 am
Chemical or NO Chemical,whose days are numbered are dead or will die just beacuse of our collective sin of accepting the brutal war imposed by the NWO slaves.
jaycee
January 30th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
Gore would have been killed as part of 9-11, and Lieberman would have taken over to refashion the Middle east as planned.
Smithboy
January 30th, 2013 at 12:46 pm
IN the same fashion McCain's VP, Sarah Palin, would have been groomed for the demise of the elderly, cancer ridden McCain. Having a President Plain in place would mean the ultimate stooge, handpicked by Bill Kristol, would be in place to carry out the PNAC policy.
charlie
January 30th, 2013 at 12:53 pm
Yes sir, you are 100% correct sir. Korea is often billed as the "Forgotten War". As a veteran of the imperial war in Vietnam, I agree with you. The Korean War IS very important in the matter of US imperial adventures and why we are where we are today.
Mike
January 30th, 2013 at 2:47 pm
"….it is the American Corporate Fascist Empire that is dying."
Fixed.
Only an idiot thinks what the US practices is capitalism.
Fascism (corporatism) is defined as the merger of government and big business.
chris
January 30th, 2013 at 2:56 pm
Very interesting question, regarding dating the fall of the American Empire, Justin.
Just as the end of the Roman Empire is usually dated by the assention of Alarich, the first non-Roman, to the throne, I always thought it was funny that the reign of Obama might well come to be seen as the tipping point also; irrespective of the fact that an entire slew of his predecessors, over the last century, prepared the way to the bottom. (Judge Napolitano's excellent book: "Theodore and Woodrow" certainly would corroborate this.)
The other point which I found interesting is Adam Smith's prediction that a democracy (refering to the US) would last about 200 years. Considering the erosion of the constitution in the last century and the ensuing debt, etc., and granting a tolerance of plus or minus 50 years or so, his estimation wouldn't really seem all that far off the mark right now.
more taxes please
January 30th, 2013 at 4:30 pm
Well I can only hope the new planetopia turns out to be all you've cracked it up to be.
dink
January 30th, 2013 at 7:01 pm
I am not convinced, although we know that Mr Raimondo writes well (and many of his articles I respect).
The Viet Minh and the Taliban are two different animals. The CIA defeated the Taliban well, with the Northern Alliance. The Afghan people are not in a rush for the Taliban to take over. The Viet Minh kicked out the French and then Pres. Johnson rushed in. Mr Obama is not going to have a Viet Nam style ending.
Do we need less intervention, yes. Is Mr Raimondos other points super valid. (Especially No Ideological motivation) Absolutely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Minh
eric siverson
January 30th, 2013 at 7:30 pm
Dr Khan tell me who killed the 10 Japanese in Algeria , or who nailed the live opposition on crosses in Egypt if it was not the brotherhood or Al Qaida . I admit I maybe a moran , but I bet the culprits were muslims of the same ideology . So what difference does it make what we call them or how you want to spell AlQaida . I don't think these guys have any chance of taking over the world , but they are sure making the world a very unpleasant place for a lot of people , no matter what islamic name they want to use in their attacks .
say cheese
January 30th, 2013 at 7:51 pm
But we've added the military and the church, so it's socialism. fixed it for ya
MYK
January 30th, 2013 at 7:56 pm
http://www.mishalov.com/Vietnam_finalescape.html
It was not the saigon embassy , it was an apartment complex which housed many CIA type people. If this is the picture you are referring too.
eric siverson
January 30th, 2013 at 7:57 pm
unwinable wars breeds debts and debts breeds slavery . but most wars of conquest more resemble robbery and they have often been very profitable for the winners . Robbery has always been the easiest way to prosper if there is no law . So far as I see there is no law that has ever governed wars yet .
eric siverson
January 30th, 2013 at 8:38 pm
I say Romes decline was assured , when popular Nero was able to start the city on fire and blame the radical christians living in the city . I think the United States has started many fires in the middle east and now when we are forced to suffer some of the consquences the popular Obama administration again wants to blame some radical christians from Flordia . If the people and the government are willing to let Nero or Obama by with this kind of judgement . We don't have very much time left as a free democracy . I would say the dismemberment of Yugoslavia would be the first time I noticed something wrong !990 to now
Andy_osnard
January 30th, 2013 at 9:02 pm
Johnny> Most of the time I agree with you. My take this time however is a little different. I believe that Lincoln was the beginning destroyer of America, with his destruction of the Constitution and of free speech and freedom of the press. Lincoln, the Great Emancipator, offered to let the South continue slavery if they would just rejoin the Union and let them tax the South to death. Of course he allowed slavery to continue in the north all along. After Lincoln was the Reconstruction, which pitted White against black in the South in an animosity that had not existed previously.
Later came 1913 and the two great evils. The Federal Reserve and to pump money into the Rothschild family, the graduated income tax. All this was the beginning of the the end for America as the tribe was able to gain momentum to overcome our economy and our government. Next came the depression. Google The Great American Bubble Machine to understand how this is still destroying us today.
Andy_osnard
January 30th, 2013 at 9:45 pm
Mr Raimondo also seem paranoiac at times at the slightest mention of certain peoples. I try to be fair and never insult or degrade, but the site seems keyed to pick up certain phrases of similarities. Hopefully I can stay here and continue to post, but I am a staunch believer is freedom of speech. Once it is stifled taking a walk is the option.
bonnie
January 30th, 2013 at 11:12 pm
Here is Justin's Morals;
Kill the Christians and the Jews, and once the Muslims have done that, kill them.
shark
January 30th, 2013 at 11:26 pm
Just because a primate does it doesn't call it evolution, Seems more your devolving.
shalom
January 31st, 2013 at 12:17 am
Jesus was an agnostic, like John the Baptist and of course the Apostles. They rebelled against the State and the Church of their day, Christianity was not "organized" into a religion until much time after Jesus' death. (they kept them fighting wars for a long time too since that organization) God, Moses and Jesus are about freedom not servitude. God is for everyone everywhere.
Dr.Khan
January 31st, 2013 at 1:39 am
Who killed million in Iraq,AFGHANISTAN?Who is killing hundreds and thousands in Palestine?Should I call then the Christians ot the Jews.Why by faith…or will you accept the so called alqaida a formal force if they choose to put on a stylish uniform and then kill.
And those jappanese and many more were killed by yours and my nieveness and sheepleness,the cult who has adopted crying over spilt milk as habit.
Smithboy
January 31st, 2013 at 5:41 am
Jesus was the mythical reincarnation of the mythical Mithra who lived several hundred years before the Jesus movement. Mithra was born on Dec. 25 to a virgn. Had twelve disciples…on and on.
richard vajs
January 31st, 2013 at 6:35 am
True capitalism is some guy opening a shoe repair place using his own or his family's money – forget using some bank's money – that is not going to happen unless he puts his house up for collateral. Fascist, corporate capitalism is some group of connected smart-alecs, like Bain Capital, using insider money to attack vulnerable companies, stripping their real resources, shipping their manufacturing overseas, loading up them with debt and then dumping the liabilities like pensions onto the taxpayers and finally paying an income tax of pennies on the dollar of profits via sweetheart tax deals delivered by lobbyists and massive campaign contributions to a venal Congress.
Run that up the flagpole and see who salutes it. "God Blesses America and Israel!"
Mike
January 31st, 2013 at 8:55 am
" We beat Hitler to give his partner Stalin half of Europe and a lot of Asia."
I wish more people would recognize that instead of the knee jerk, "Oh you're a Hitler sympathizer then!" The more wars we become entangled in the WORSE it's going to get. They just don't get that though. Idiots.
Mike
January 31st, 2013 at 8:56 am
lol. Yeah. It's just a wierd mixture of socialism and fascism is all.
Mike
January 31st, 2013 at 8:57 am
*weird
john
January 31st, 2013 at 10:27 am
Your date is close. American imperialism is anemic . Tet was not the event. It took place one year earlier – July, 1967 , the USS Liberty. President Johnson by command on radio-telephone to our F-5 Pilots not to engage the Israeli Pilots who were bombing the Liberty sealed America's limitations. If you have doubts, review our political history in all aspects since that day. We have read here and elsewhere "Its all about Israel". That which is America's best interests has been deferred to that which in the perceived best interests of the crazy Jews.
richard vajs
January 31st, 2013 at 11:01 am
Please note – "God Blesses America and Israel" is an attempt by me to mimic the mating call of that the pestilent, bird, The Boobus, Americanus, in full throat. If you remember Gomer Pyle, substitute "Well, Gollee!, Sgt Carter"
Neil Armweak
January 31st, 2013 at 11:45 am
Yes and no.
I do believe the FIRST moon landing was hoaxed. Precisely for the reasons you state. Beating the Soviets to the moon after the embarrassment of the entire 60's, from the Bay of Pigs, to MLK and Kennedy's assassinations, to Tet and our failures in Vietnam, was critical to our reputation as a country. I have no doubt we did eventually make it to the moon for real (and I gather that you are implying the same), but agree that there is much in the way of evidence to support the idea that the July '69 landing was faked. And it is very easy to see why we felt the need to do this. Like most conspiracy theories, many, in using it to pursue their own agenda, have convoluted the facts. This is why many promote the idea that we NEVER went to the moon, which is ridiculous. But faking the initial landing with the specific intent to save face, beat the Soviets, etc, is well within the MO of our government and the best all around explanation for the whole of the facts both for and against. In fact all of the evidence seems to point to an either/or scenario. Had we been ready to go to the moon in July of '69 we would have. Likely this was established from intelligence as a drop dead date for beating the soviets. And in the interest of winning the space race, a contingency plan to 'fake it if we don't make it' was simply running concurrently. And I believe ultimately we had to go with the contingency plan. This is also why most of what legitimate evidence exists to support the hoax theory only pertains to this mission. In no way does any rational person deny that we went to the moon, or overall had the better, more successful space program. But I find it very easy to believe that we hoaxed landing, which had more to do with timing and reputation than our abilities in space exploration or our superiority in that effort.
Deuce
January 31st, 2013 at 12:03 pm
"Nor is there anything necessarily admirable about this inward-turning trend…"
Quite to the contrary it explains a lot. The war is turning inward, onto citizens and their private affairs. This is a war that can be fought much more cheaply and efficiently, the outcomes can be better controlled and spun, and the war machine and its backers can still profit and retain their much-beloved grip on power.
Who can't see this reality unfolding. Its a verifiable fact that every word every one of you have typed here is being logged into an NSA database. This type of surveillance has always been reserved for enemy combatants. Its time to accept that in the here and now that is us….
chris
January 31st, 2013 at 12:15 pm
I think it rhymes better if you say "kill them too" at the end
(as far as the pertinence of your jingle is concerned, I think you have one hell of a task ahead of you trying to prove it based on the excellent material Justin has written so far)
Dutch
January 31st, 2013 at 12:46 pm
Good points. We should neither condone meeting killing with killing, nor make it our business who does what in their own country. Al-Quaeda is not going to march into America and take over. That much is certain. So even if they are committing atrocities in their own country, on par with the ones the US is committing, it is not our place to make it our business or send in our troops to stop it. If the middle east chooses to let extremists keep them in the dark ages that is their choice. The only real risk this presents to the US is that the oil interests of a few private companies may be compromised. But this is not the type of thing that should be dictating our foreign policy, nor should the fate of a few Japanese people in Algeria. This is the thing America has gotten tragically wrong, to its own economic, political, and reputational detriment. We can live and let live, live and let die. But continuing to be the ones doing the killing in the name of preventing the citizens of a sovereign nation from killing each other, is a muddy gray area and serves no real benefit to American citizens to compensate for their lost wealth and lost lives.
Eric S can hate muslims all he wants for whatever wrongheaded reasons he wants. But that alone is not the type of thing that can continue to drive foreign or economic policy. Lest we screw things up further from here to China.
Monster from the Id
January 31st, 2013 at 1:08 pm
"An animosity that had not existed previously"?
Slavery was not an inherently hostile, aggressive relationship?
Damn, Andy, lay off the moonshine.
BTW, my great-great-grandfather was a Rebel soldier. We lost. Get over it.
liberranter
January 31st, 2013 at 3:48 pm
You took the words right off of my fingertips.
The American Empire, RIP « Counter Information
January 31st, 2013 at 5:35 pm
[...] 01, 2013 “Antiwar” – When will historians of the future date the beginning of the decline and fall of [...]
Sam
January 31st, 2013 at 6:17 pm
America and the world need each other. and COMPASSION could help.
Nicolo
January 31st, 2013 at 7:54 pm
McCain is till alive, and would have survive the presidency. No chance for Ms Palin.
Hagel Hearing: The War Party’s Waterloo | My Catbird Seat
February 1st, 2013 at 12:06 am
[...] that the "surge" prefigured the single most disastrous episode in US foreign policy since the Vietnam war, Mad John’s eyes practically popped out of his head. Hagel, sitting there calmly, replied [...]
Oline
February 1st, 2013 at 5:40 am
It is just possible that people in America are tired of spending American lives in places that don't want the military there in the first place. Fraankly more and more Americans are waking up to the fact that the various wars do nothing to promote American freedoms and that the government itself seems more a danger to the US that other countries.
In These New Times
February 1st, 2013 at 12:17 pm
[...] the “surge” prefigured the single most disastrous episode in US foreign policy since the Vietnam war, Mad John’s eyes practically popped out of his head. Hagel, sitting there calmly, replied [...]
The American Empire, RIP | Hebrew Vision News
February 1st, 2013 at 2:49 pm
[...] Raimondo | antiwar.com When will historians of the future date the beginning of the decline and fall of the American [...]
Hagel Hearing: The War Party’s Waterloo « Attack the System
February 2nd, 2013 at 5:55 am
[...] the “surge” prefigured the single most disastrous episode in US foreign policy since the Vietnam war, Mad John’s eyes practically popped out of his head. Hagel, sitting there calmly, replied [...]
amacd385
February 3rd, 2013 at 2:39 pm
Refining your point, Johnny, "the only way this Empire ends" non-violently, is when the American people finally recognize that their country has been 'captured' and now fully "Occupied" by a disguised global Empire, a corporate/financial/militarist/media and political Empire, that hides behind the facade of a modernized and sophisticated propagandist DUAL-Party 'Vichy' sham of faux-democratic and totally illegitimate government — similar to the earlier and crude single-party Vichy facade that the Nazi Empire which 'captured' and "Occupied" France c. 1940 tried-out less successfully more than 70 years ago.
The only thing that is Kryptonite to this well disguised Global Empire, only posing as our fading country in the post-nation-state 21st century, is for the people to be exposed and educated to it, to recognize and diagnose it as the casual cancer of all 'symptom problems' which it is, to publicly 'call-it-out', reject it, confront it, and by such 'outing' excise it.
Like AA, the first step is to admit, acknowledge, and publicly foreswear the disease.
Less than 1/2% of Americans actually believe the truth that our country has been captured by Empire, and the media never even whispers this truth.
That's what has to happen to avoid a violent blood-bath and existential end to this American story.
Best,
Alan
Hagel Hearing: The War Party’s Waterloo | Hillbilly News
February 7th, 2013 at 3:04 am
[...] at t'“surge” prefigurd t'sangle mos disastryus episode n' US forn policy since t' Vietnam war, Mad John’s eyes pracktickly poppd out o'his'n hed. Hagel, sittin thar calmlee, replid somewhat [...]
TRANSCEND MEDIA SERVICE » (Deutsch) Post-2015-Ziele: Spart Euch diese Reise!
February 18th, 2013 at 5:04 am
[...] Justin Raimondo: The American Empire, RIP, Antiwar, February 01, 2013; Francis A. Boyle: American Militarism Threatening To Set Off World War III, [...]