If someone had planned to upend US foreign policy — to utterly destroy the very basis [.pdf] of all our diplomats (and military personnel) have been working to achieve in the Middle East and throughout the Muslim world — they couldn’t have done a better job of it than whoever put together Innocence of Muslims.
As violent protests spread, the consequences continue to roll in: the suspension of joint US-Afghan military operations, the suspension of US aid talks with Egypt, the rapid decline of US prestige in the region, and the growing influence of the radical Islamist movement US support for the “Arab Spring” was designed to counter. The Obama administration’s effort to split the Islamist upsurge and lend its support to “moderates” has been stopped cold.
Was the release of the video a random event, one of those unpredictables that can arise at any moment to foil the best-laid plans? Perhaps. Yet one is hard-pressed to explain what the makers of Innocence sought to accomplish, if not precisely what has occurred. According to various explanations floated in the media — primarily by anti-Muslim agitator Steve Klein — the idea was to promote the video to Muslims. In one account, Klein says he hoped the video would “smoke out” Muslim radicals in the US, who he is convinced have organized secret “cells” that will strike on command. On the other hand, we are told the film’s authors and promoters hoped to “convert” Muslims.
Neither explanation is very convincing. The video itself is so crude, so inept, and so deliberately insulting it is hard to believe anyone thought it could convert anyone to anything. And as for the prospect of “smoking out” secret Islamist cells — if there were such cells, one would hardly expect them to reveal themselves because of a YouTube video.
In order to understand the real motives and goals of the makers of Innocence, it is necessary to take a good look at the people who have, so far, been identified as the film’s authors and promoters.
The central figure in all this is reported to be one Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a 56-year-old Egyptian immigrant: although Nakoula presented himself in an interview with the Associated Press as “Sam Bacile,” a 56-year-old “Israeli-American” real estate developer, he is a Coptic Christian, a member of a persecuted minority in Egypt — and a convicted felon. Media reports portray him as the central figure in the making of Innocence: he denies this, and describes his job as arranging “logistics” for the film. Nakoula’s role seems to have been that of a facilitator — gofer — rather than “creative director,” and in any case he hardly seems the type to have originated the idea for the movie. Having been released from jail — where he was serving a sentence for bank fraud — barely a month before filming started, Nakoula was hardly in a position to undertake such a project. Chances are he was recruited by someone else, the real originator and driving force behind Innocence— but who is that someone?
Public records show a filming permit was taken out by “Media for Christ,” an outfit run by one Joseph Nasrallah Abdelmasih. His group sponsors Christian programming in Arabic, including “The Way,” a production that has featured such prominent Islamophobes as Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer. The Geller-Spencer collaboration goes back to the protests against the New York City “Ground Zero” mosque in which the duo achieved national notoriety: Nasrallah was one of the speakers at their rally. The idea for just such a movie as Innocence showed up on Geller’s blog in February, in a post entitled “A Movie About Muhammad: An Idea Whose Time Has Come.” Ali Sina, an ex-Muslim and board member of Geller and Spencer’s “Stop the Islamization of Nations,” exhorted Geller’s readers to support his movie project:
“The movie shows Muhammad’s raids, plunders, massacres, rapes, assassinations and other crimes. A small subtitle in the lower right corner of each scene will give reference to the source of the story. This movie is entirely factual. Wherever possible, I copied the Quran, the Sira and the Hadith verbatim. It is a riveting story. Truth about Muhammad is more shocking than fiction.
“The world does not know Islam. What is known is a watered down and euphemized version of it that has no bases [sic] in reality. The truth is that Muhammad was a cult leader, much like Jim Jones, Shoko Asahara and Charles Manson. Unlike them he succeeded because there was no central power in the seventh century Arabia to stop him.
“The other good news is that I have been promised a substantial angel financing. I have been daydreaming about this movie for ten years. It was this promise that prompted me into action. I put everything aside for five months, read everything I could about my protagonist, selected the most salient episodes and wrote the script.
“The seed is now sown. Now it’s time to nurture it. What I need is an experienced executive producer, someone who shares my values, to make it happen with professionalism and missionary zeal.
“I am not thinking of a high budget movie, but given the subject matter, it can become one of the most seen motion pictures ever. (Recall Danish cartoons?)”
This may or may not be the same movie as Innocence, but what’s important here is that the idea of such a provocation — “recall Danish cartoons?” — was percolating in these circles when the movie was in production.
Nasrallah has now issued a non-denial denial, in which he claims he was duped — along with the actors — by Nakoula who “did not make the movie we thought he was making.” However, he admits Nakoula called him and that Media for Christ lent him their facilities: and, one has to ask, what movie did Nasrallah think his buddy Nakoula was making?
Nasrallah’s recent involvement with the Geller-Spencer crowd coincided with a very profitable time for his organization: Media in Christ’s income has recently skyrocketed, according to public records, with receipts totaling under $200,000 in 2009 and prior, rising to $633,516 in 2010 and $1,016,366 in 2011. Where did all that money come from — was it Mr. Sina’s “substantial angel”? Nakoula claims he funded his movie project with money from “over 100 Jewish donors.”
When Nakoula spoke to the Associated Press, he described himself as an “Israeli-American” real estate developer operating out of California: this was soon debunked, however, when inquiring reporters outed him as an Egyptian of the Coptic faith. They also discovered he’s a convicted felon — not only for a check-kiting scheme, but also for drug-dealing (methamphetamine). He’s an unlikely hero for the right-wing Christians who have made a martyr out of him, although to ostensible “libertarians” like Matt Welch, who thinks Nakoula & Co. are on the same level as Salman Rushdie, the meth conviction is doubtless a plus.
The idea that these vermin, who deliberately set out to make a “movie” that would inflame the Muslim world, are “free speech” heroes is worse than nonsense: it is valorizing villains. We don’t yet know where the money, or the impetus to make the film, came from, but what we do know is this: the driving force behind Innocence was a desire to create an international incident that would bring discredit on the United States, and empower radical Islamists who hate America and everything it stands for. And the promoters of this garbage pose as “patriots”!
Free speech has nothing to do with this issue: the President requested of YouTube that they reconsider the video’s place on YouTube in light of their terms of service. YouTube refused, and that’s the end of it. Unfortunately, however, that’s not the end of this imbroglio, the consequences of which we’ll be living with for a long time to come.
There is an ugly sore festering under the skin of the West, and its first manifestation — or should I say symptom? — surfaced when Andre Breivik committed his ghastly crime, slaughtering the attendees at a Norwegian Labor Party youth camp. He, too, wanted to “stop the Islamization of nations,” and his online manifesto cited Geller, Spencer, and the writings of the movement their hateful rantings have energized. The English Defense League — a sorry collection of skinheads, neo-Nazis, and soccer hooligans — which Geller endorses, has mounted a campaign of violent intimidation aimed at British Muslims, inspiring imitators in several European countries. These groups feed off the more radical elements of the Zionist movement: Geller and her supporters claim to be “defending Israel,” and the EDL regularly flies the Israeli flag at their hate rallies.
Defense of the Jewish state is a major theme of the Islamophobe network: they use it as a shield to deflect criticism. A key leader of this network is former New Leftist and Black Panther groupie David Horowitz: his “David Horowitz Freedom Center” (formerly the Center for the Study of Popular Culture), sponsors Spencer’s “Jihad Watch.” Horowitz’s “Frontpage” site — ablaze with stories decrying the “betrayal” of Israel by the American government and the perfidy of all things Islamic — recently speculated Innocence was created by the very Salafists now leading the protests. Since the video sprang from the same bigoted milieu of which Frontpage is the online Jerusalem, this “theory” isn’t merely ironic — it’s a moral obscenity.
It isn’t hard to imagine where the money to create this deadly provocation came from. Of the many millions in neocon money sloshing around this country, it’s hardly inconceivable a hundred thousand or so would find its way into the hands of a twice-convicted felon and all around dubious character like Nakoula, who is, I suspect, just a con man rather than an ultra-Zionist ideologue like the promoters of his “work.”
Although, to be sure,
the difference is altogether negligible.
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
It looks like I’ll be speaking at Vassar College, in Poughkeepsie, New York, on October 10 — stay tuned to this space for details.
And you can follow me on Twitter here.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Up Against the FBI – May 23rd, 2013
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013





Peter
September 18th, 2012 at 9:29 pm
Thanks for this backgrounds, which you cannot read in msm outlets. That this movie was made to incite the anger of muslims seemed clear to me from the beginning. But I did not know more details.
sherban
September 18th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
This is clear like 2+2=4.But how stupid is Geller telling how she works:first she look to offend,to slender and after it she search for stuff and the stuff have to be the most inciting,provocative:" I put everything aside for five months, read everything I could about my protagonist, selected the most salient episodes and wrote the script."Stupid also who doesn't know her intentions from the first line of her article (garbage)..
Michael23
September 18th, 2012 at 10:11 pm
One thing I don't understand is that if the Israeli's, neocons and whoever the "powers that be" are want war with Iran so badly, what is the delay? Whoever was responsible for the 9/11 false flag attack, what are they up to right now? That was a pretty powerful move. You would think if these people wanted WW3, there would be WW3 already?
W_ThePoster
September 18th, 2012 at 10:14 pm
Wow, JR~! Very impressive, highly appeciated research! Great post.
Ben_C
September 18th, 2012 at 10:51 pm
I'm not entirely sure why so many people are 'seemingly' getting worked up about a "film" virtually no one has ever even seen in the first place; nor is there any way, that I"m aware of at least, for the general public to even acquire, much less 'view', the actual "film" in the first place. The so-called "trailer", which is a YouTube video, is ~ 14 mins long and is obviously dubbed and parts are somewhat infantile…
Where are the "violent protests" in the US if this is such a "big deal"? Where's the chaos?
I think this does 'reveal' certain things though (what is happening in the other Countries because of a YouTube video is their 'issue' to deal with as a society)…and if a stupid YouTube video can bring instant fame and international "chaos" by just 'depicting' "Muhammad" to someone in the US–then watch out!!! I assure you there will be "copycats" very soon…
I guess the big take away from this entire thing, in my mind, is why does the entire world even care what a guy who uploaded a dubbed "film" even thinks in the first place? If the YouTube video directly called for, and incited violence "against", 'Muslims'–that would be one thing; however, if what occurs is the exact opposite–even if this were the intended effect–is not the fault of the YouTube video creator(s)…nor is the conflation of a YouTube vid with foreign policy…
Ben_C
September 18th, 2012 at 10:51 pm
I'm not entirely sure why so many people are 'seemingly' getting worked up about a "film" virtually no one has ever even seen in the first place; nor is there any way, that I"m aware of at least, for the general public to even acquire, much less 'view', the actual "film" even if people wanted to do so.
The so-called "trailer", which is a YouTube video, is ~ 14 mins long and is obviously dubbed and parts are somewhat infantile… A child could slap something like this together with what's already out there on the web to use. From what I understand, most have not even actually seen the trailer.
Where are the "violent protests" in the US if this is such a "big deal"? Where's the chaos?
I think this does 'reveal' certain things though, What is happening in the other Countries because of a YouTube video is their 'issue' to deal with as a society…and if a stupid YouTube video can bring instant fame to someone in the US and cause international "chaos" by just 'depicting' "Muhammad" in a YouTube video–then watch out!!! I assure you there will be "copycats" very soon…
I guess one of the main 'questions' I have about this entire thing is: why does the entire world even care what the guy(s) who uploaded a dubbed "film" even thinks in the first place? Taking this further: why would the "world" care about what the 'US' even "thinks"–if what the 'US' "thinks" can't be directly linked with actual policy?
If the YouTube video directly called for, and incited, violence "against" 'Muslims'–that would be one thing; however, if what occurs is the exact opposite–even if this were the intended effect–it's not the fault of the YouTube video creator(s)…nor is conflation of a YouTube video with foreign policy the fault of the creator(s), if that is the outcome…
hmph
September 18th, 2012 at 11:33 pm
"This may or may not be the same movie as Innocence, but what’s important here is that the idea of such a provocation — “recall Danish cartoons?” — was percolating in these circles when the movie was in production. "
You're right, exactly the same brilliant deduction as Sherlock, missed your calling as they might say, not that we as spectators have any idea what your talking about, but whatever, everyone gets a medal.
I can't recall the Danish cartoons, because I never seen them.
ch162
September 18th, 2012 at 11:54 pm
Hi,
I find it interesting that while you seem to be condeming this "film" you say nothing about condemnation of the violence. Murderous riots like those have been happening worldwide hav no excuse. Stangely it is the Arab press that regularly make the most inflamitory cartoon and TV shows about Jews, Israel and America, on a regular basis. Yet one individual make a clip for youtube and the Islamic world is up in arms… Its beyond ridiculous… You forgot to mention that in your article..
ch162
September 18th, 2012 at 11:54 pm
Hi,
I find it interesting that while you seem to be condeming this "film" you say nothing about condemnation of the violence. Murderous riots like those have been happening worldwide hav no excuse. Stangely it is the Arab press that regularly make the most inflamitory cartoon and TV shows about Jews, Israel and America, on a regular basis. Yet one individual make a clip for youtube and the Islamic world is up in arms… Its beyond ridiculous… You forgot to mention that in your article..
The ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video
September 19th, 2012 at 12:36 am
[...] couldn’t have done a better job of it than whoever put together Innocence of Muslims. As [...] Antiwar.com Original Tags: behind, Innocence, Network, Video, ‘ProIsrael’ Posted in Pundits | No Comments [...]
Dr.Khan
September 19th, 2012 at 2:48 am
Clinton said,''it's the Economi stupid''.I would say Justin intention is to say.''it's the Intent not the content of the film Stupid''.
The very idea of Freedom of Speech dies at the moment which something said is preplanned,well worked on and that it targets a specific community(in this case Muslims whose identification by no means is by Capitalism,Nationalism but by their Faith,therefore one has to understand why protests starts all over the globe instead in one corner somwhere.
The Muslim part of the world has encountered several challenges in recent times that indicates clearly that are being chosen ones as an ENEMY numero uno,after the collapse of Communism.Therefore my ill understanding is that the planners will be doing anything at their disposal to keep the enemy on stage and present them as Villian or Destroyer and Hater of the West.till their intetions are fully exposed and by then they start looking for another BAD GUY to keep the dice rolling.
They kept everyone underfear of the Nuclear war but first they demonstrated it in Japan to make sure the fear fits well when called upon of the Nuclear explosion.with USSR that theme died down and came in Islam as a new Bad Guy.which since 1990 til this day has done anything wrong to the west,I do not think so. was Saddam ready to take over the world for Greater Iraq NOOOO.Did he threatened with the world with WMDs with demonstration,Nooo.
Did Osama ''The Building Demolisher''worked hard day and night under Bush security team and Building no.7 habitants supervision and put all those explosives and nano thermite in the towers.well someone prove it otherwise.I do not believe so til day.
the list goes on Salman Rushidi, Danish cartoons,and now the film as long as they are targeting a specific Faith with specific agenda know that lords of the world has not find or cooked next enemy yet.But just remeber muslims no matter how much suppressed by their own puppet leaders and then how much the west call them ignorents cannot compromise on insult to their religion and the blessing to the universe MUHAMMAD.PBUH.That is our redline and either as a civilised human one may respect it or just simply let it go.No muslim in the west will ever demand for Sharia as some Islamophobes like Geller-spencer idiots keep promoting.which do not even know what sharia is in the simplest of words.
Dr.Khan
September 19th, 2012 at 3:00 am
but coming back to the views pointed out by Justin,in itself justifies the fact that in recent days if BiBi was not gifted with Iran war in a platter,the pros definitely has given USG something in return and the outcome is what all are seeing all over the world.obomba must be feeling what was worth at this time,promising Bibi to destroy another muslim country or what he is being paid back with.
But Americans will never get it who is really after their destruction atleast not Muslims or Islam in general.The discretion rests with all those think they better understand what is going on in and around them and still claim the the Bud Guy is muslim with Islam as the power behind.
God bless and have mercy upon us.
Oswaldwasalefty
September 19th, 2012 at 3:25 am
There is nothing new about this kind of a media production vilifying Arabs. There are far better produced movies that vilify all things Arab than "Innocence Of Muslims":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmVoSZk_fvoi
Defamatory attitudes towards Arabs and Islam permeates much of American culture, especially the vulgarians among the fundamentalist Christians. This amateur hack production "Innocence Of Muslims" just so happens to be the most vulgar expression of this aspect of American culture.
What I can't stand are the professional Islam bashers now using this an example of the lack of backbone among all Muslims when it comes to insults aimed at their religion. All they did is the equivalent of saying Muslims eat babies, so what is this fuss about?
Oswaldwasalefty
September 19th, 2012 at 3:25 am
There is nothing new about this kind of a media production vilifying Arabs. There are far better produced movies that vilify all things Arab than "Innocence Of Muslims":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmVoSZk_fvoi
Defamatory attitudes towards Arabs and Islam permeates much of American culture, especially the vulgarians among the fundamentalist Christians. This amateur hack production "Innocence Of Muslims" just so happens to be the most vulgar expression of this aspect of American culture.
What I can't stand are the professional Islam bashers now using this an example of the lack of backbone among all Muslims when it comes to insults aimed at their religion. All they did is the equivalent of saying Muslims eat babies, so what is this fuss about?
paddy
September 19th, 2012 at 4:21 am
Trailers dubbed in the Arabic language were uploaded in early September 2012 and spread by Egyptian-American blogger and Coptic Christian Morris Sadek. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_of_Muslims
Cindy Lee Davis Garcia
Desert WarriorsSupporting Role/ Mother Producer: Steven Goldberg http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4555815/resume
Cindy Lee Garcia, actress in Islam-bashing movie, calls film a 'fraud' and says vile death threats have forced her and family to hide
Garcia said she’s called the FBI to report the threats, but agents have yet to return the voice mail messages left at their bureau… http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/cindy-lee-g…
Cannonfire: Bombshell article about the true origins of THAT movie…
I haven't much time to write now, but…well, you simply must read this. If you think you've heard it all, you haven't.
I'm thinking of making a movie of my own: "The Innocence of Pam Geller." Like the idea…?
16 comments (read them all) http://cannonfire.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/bombshe…
paddy
September 19th, 2012 at 4:21 am
Trailers dubbed in the Arabic language were uploaded in early September 2012 and spread by Egyptian-American blogger and Coptic Christian Morris Sadek. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_of_Muslims
Cindy Lee Davis Garcia
Desert WarriorsSupporting Role/ Mother Producer: Steven Goldberg http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4555815/resume
Cindy Lee Garcia, actress in Islam-bashing movie, calls film a 'fraud' and says vile death threats have forced her and family to hide
Garcia said she’s called the FBI to report the threats, but agents have yet to return the voice mail messages left at their bureau… http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/cindy-lee-g…
Cannonfire: Bombshell article about the true origins of THAT movie…
I haven't much time to write now, but…well, you simply must read this. If you think you've heard it all, you haven't.
I'm thinking of making a movie of my own: "The Innocence of Pam Geller." Like the idea…?
16 comments (read them all) http://cannonfire.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/bombshe…
blutopie
September 19th, 2012 at 4:35 am
Pamela Geller's site is touting her legal victory to place ads in the NYC subways essentially calling those opposing Israel (Muslims) 'savages'
- 'Ad Calling Jihad ‘Savage’ Is Set to Appear in Subway'
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/nyregion/ad-dem…
As violent and sometimes deadly protests consume much of the Muslim world in response to an American-made video mocking the Prophet Muhammad, New Yorkers will soon encounter another potentially inflammatory rendering of Islam: an advertisement in the transit system that reads, “In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.”
blutopie
September 19th, 2012 at 4:35 am
Pamela Geller's site is touting her legal victory to place ads in the NYC subways essentially calling those opposing Israel (Muslims) 'savages'
- 'Ad Calling Jihad ‘Savage’ Is Set to Appear in Subway'
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/nyregion/ad-dem…
As violent and sometimes deadly protests consume much of the Muslim world in response to an American-made video mocking the Prophet Muhammad, New Yorkers will soon encounter another potentially inflammatory rendering of Islam: an advertisement in the transit system that reads, “In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.”
The ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video – Antiwar.com | Israel Real estate
September 19th, 2012 at 5:02 am
[...] The 'Pro-Israel' Network Behind the Innocence VideoAntiwar.comThe central figure in all this is reported to be one Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a 56-year-old Egyptian immigrant: although Nakoula presented himself in an interview with the Associated Press as “Sam Bacile,” a 56-year-old “Israeli-American” real estate …and more » [...]
harr
September 19th, 2012 at 6:03 am
Just wondering – who is "behind" the David Duke hate videos, the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and the holocaust denial conference in Tehran? Who's funding all that? Is there a trail we can sleuth? Why are Muslim-sensitivies more fascinating and intriguing than anyone elses? Show me a group of people/religion that has NOT been offended /mocked on YouTube?
Gera Rosy
September 19th, 2012 at 6:05 am
Pamela Geller and her radical Zionist mob should be arrested, tried, and convicted for the crime of hate speech.
Gera Rosy
September 19th, 2012 at 6:05 am
Pamela Geller and her radical Zionist mob should be arrested, tried, and convicted for the crime of hate speech.
harr
September 19th, 2012 at 6:11 am
Hey JR=- Attack AIPAC and US involvement in the ME all day long, that is absolutely fine in my view (and of course what I write is all MY view). I'm libertarian and anti-war, as are most folks who take the time to read your columns, I suppose. But you give a pass to Muslim sensitivities which is a type of exceptionalism you criticize Israel as having in the US. Why are anti-Jew videos any less subservsive and appalling? You think there is a lack of Jew Hate on Youtube? Come on kid. I really do like reading your stuff and agree with 90% but sometimes this gets out of line.
JoaoAlfaiate
September 19th, 2012 at 6:14 am
Most of israel's friends in New York City, at least on the Upper East Side, are extremely well off. How much sense, therefore, does it make for Geller and Co. to anger Muslim taxi drivers and fruit stand vendors, to mention two high profile jobs immigrants from Muslim countries hold in this part of Manhattan? Absolutely no sense at all! If I were one of the pro israel movers-and-shakers in the neighborhood, I would not be pleased; I would worried.
Monster from the Id
September 19th, 2012 at 6:26 am
Joseph Cannon has posted several posts about this subject on his blog.
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/
Monster from the Id
September 19th, 2012 at 6:26 am
Joseph Cannon has posted several posts about this subject on his blog.
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/
Thomas L. Knapp
September 19th, 2012 at 6:36 am
Here's the problem:
If the purpose of the video was to inflame Muslim sentiments and incite riots, and if it worked, then what you are saying is that Muslim sentiment is easily inflamed and Muslim riots are easily incited.
If that really is the case, then should the non-Muslim response be to:
1) Tippy-toe around to avoid inflaming Muslim sentiments and inciting Muslim riots?; or
2) Tell Muslims it's time to grow the fuck up, notice that it is no longer 800 AD, and wear a cup?
Thomas L. Knapp
September 19th, 2012 at 6:36 am
Here's the problem:
If the purpose of the video was to inflame Muslim sentiments and incite riots, and if it worked, then what you are saying is that Muslim sentiment is easily inflamed and Muslim riots are easily incited.
If that really is the case, then should the non-Muslim response be to:
1) Tippy-toe around to avoid inflaming Muslim sentiments and inciting Muslim riots?; or
2) Tell Muslims it's time to grow the fuck up, notice that it is no longer 800 AD, and wear a cup?
Thomas L. Knapp
September 19th, 2012 at 6:36 am
Here's the problem:
If the purpose of the video was to inflame Muslim sentiments and incite riots, and if it worked, then what you are saying is that Muslim sentiment is easily inflamed and Muslim riots are easily incited.
If that really is the case, then should the non-Muslim response be to:
1) Tippy-toe around to avoid inflaming Muslim sentiments and inciting Muslim riots?; or
2) Tell Muslims it's time to grow the fuck up, notice that it is no longer 800 AD, and wear a cup?
The pro israel network behind the innocence video - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
September 19th, 2012 at 7:27 am
[...] pro israel network behind the innocence video The ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video by Justin Raimondo — Antiwar.com Big surprise here…I bet this was all given the OK by the Obama admin. Get muslims to riot and [...]
muggles
September 19th, 2012 at 7:45 am
You make "disruption of the US foreign policy in the MIddle East" sound like a bad thing. Why?
Yes, this indicident has a bad stink attached to it, but the insane riots in various Islamic dominated countries can't be blamed on neocon/Zionist front groups in America, can they? The video incident just demonstrates how fragile and flimy US foreign policy assumptions are in that part of the world.
Yes, some of the anti Muslim groups are sinister and fuel for violence. Where is the ADL when we need them? But if a crappy YouTube video "upends" US policy, what kind of policy is that?
MvGuy
September 19th, 2012 at 8:19 am
Congratulations to Mr. Raimondo for lending his expertise to unraveling this latest outrage dumped on the world stage with Made In The USA as it's return address…
"The Obama administration’s effort to split the Islamist upsurge and lend its support to “moderates” has been stopped cold."
Thank God ………….."support to “moderates” has been stopped cold." Who are the moderates..?? Aren't they just the paid puppets of outside interests…….. and …….NOT their own citizens……. Much like the corrupt ilk that we have here being supported by big oil and foreign states… that drain almost HALF our tax revenue off to offend and defend THEIR, not America's interests…….. Maybe there can be a commission set up to investigate how it is that there are 37,OOO U.S. troops STILL in Japan………. Maybe they could appoint Henry Kissinger once AGAIN as the chair….???? Like was done to investigate 911………
EVERYTHING in America these days is corrupt………….. Maybe it always was….. here, everywhere since Diogenes of Sinope went out with his lantern searching for an honest man in 420 BC……..
richard vajs
September 19th, 2012 at 10:22 am
We keep hearing demands that "moderate Muslims" step up and straighten out their irresponsible comrades in faith. This is OK with me. But it should also be clear that reasonable, moderate Jews are going to have to do a similiar thing – stand up against the crazies – the Gellers, the Spencers, the Michael Savages, the Netanyahous and especially those trashy "settlers" Nasty anti-Muslim campaigns from these people actually are degrading to Israel and Jews in general. I know that that kind of stuff (which I first heard back in 1967) instead of recruiting me to their anti-Palestinian cause, turned me against Israel.
Dr.Khan
September 19th, 2012 at 10:33 am
''Stangely it is the Arab press that regularly make the most inflamitory cartoon and TV shows about Jews, Israel and America, on a regular basis''.
Well in that case request your Media to Make as much mockery of the present leadership of the Muslim state and I offer my state of the ART leadership in Pakistan pretty much on USG payroll.we would love to see that.But where has this mockery of religion and prophet comes from?Still I wonder what kind motives it serves,yeah right FREEDOM of Speech.
baz
September 19th, 2012 at 11:03 am
perhaps these people should spend more time becoming better christians and jews and learning to stay out of jail and stay clean off drugs instead of bashing islam…
baz
September 19th, 2012 at 11:07 am
justin,
as a sidebar, could you guys please investigate what happened to alleged Saudi ambassador bomb plotter and alcoholic used car salesman Mansour Arbabsiar? We have not heard a word about him since the initial media blitz and a google news search for him yielded only 3 results!!…
How is it that such an important story has vanished from memory?
Mark Thomason
September 19th, 2012 at 11:20 am
Everything you write here is valuable, but you stop short of a vital question. This movie sat ineffective for six months. Then an edited "trailer" of a long 14 minutes of pure insult was translated into Arabic and distributed very effectively, all in the few days before 9/11 when the response would have maximum impact in the US. And this just before the election.
Who had the knowledge to suddenly be so much more effective in distributing this, and the money and resources to be suddenly so effective after for so long being lame and ineffective?
It is probably not the same guys. Someone discovered this "gem" and saw the potential, and exploited it. Someone who wanted to disrupt Obama and push the US into war in the Middle East. Who is that?
This later addition to the events is I think even more interesting that the story that created the "gem" that got nowhere for six months in the original hands.
mickperry
September 19th, 2012 at 11:58 am
Exactly, and thanks for making an important point. Fact is, most Muslims where I live have obviously looked at this pile of poop and said “well what do you expect?” and got on with their lives.
What they haven't done is gone rushing down to the town square screaming “The US is the great Satan!” looking for a Stars and Stripes to burn.
Having been vilified remorselessly for the past eleven years straight though, there is indeed perhaps very little left for them to say except to answer Geller's dictum:
“In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.”
I suspect that around here, the only objection to Geller's motion would be that support should be to the 'civilised citizen'.
The vote of support would I suspect go to those who do not invade and destroy other nations and the lives of the people living there, in other words the civilised.
patriothere
September 19th, 2012 at 12:05 pm
Now is the time for us to get the hell out of the middle east. We wont get another chance like this. We need to take advantage of this opprtunity and pull out. We need to adopt Chinas foreign policy. Business with countries.
patriothere
September 19th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
This was a lame attempt at zionists in america pulling a september surprise to get the right wing republican puppet in office.
A. G. Phillbin
September 19th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
This comment makes sense only if you assume that these protests at US installations are really about a stupid youtube video that most of the protestors probably have never seen. Let me suggest that this is no more the true motivation for these protests than the use of pig fat in cartridges was the cause of the Sepoy Mutiny. The situation in which the US is still trying to dominate the Muslim world (and is, or has been, or threatens to be, at war with much of it) is the real cause. With that reality in the background, ANYTHING can set off a conflagration.
David4Peace
September 19th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
Perhaps the Neocons and the .01% deliberately provoke riots and disturbances that make Muslims look threatening and unbalanced. The actual targets are the Elite's own citizens in the West -convincing us to support their endless, pointless, murderous, but extremely profitable wars. Crazy Muslim rioters give them that excuse.
liveload
September 19th, 2012 at 12:33 pm
How do people who can barely afford to eat meat once a month all of a sudden come up with the materials and resources necessary to conduct these large scale protests? Banners, flags, signs, loudspeakers, graphics, tech support, etc, etc. How does this happen without an influx of cash?
I know! When you're starving, unemployed, homeless, educated, and bored …. you start giving a enough of a crap about some random and spectacularly stupid youtube video (that you can't even watch because you don't have a home or internet access) to go out in the streets, risk arrest, torture, getting shot, and/or beaten and/or tear gassed for the hell of it. It pissed me off, that's what it was… /sarcasm
Get real Knapp.
"Democracy is just a word when the people are starving." – Immortal Technique
A. G. Phillbin
September 19th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
While I applaud your attempt to get to the bottom of this "Innonence" situation, which you have done in true journalistic fashion, it occurs to me that it may be essentially besides the point. It is only important who these people are if they have rational, well thought out motives. If it is the crew around Geller/Spencer/Horowitz, rational motives are not the issue, as they are nearly incapable of harboring such ideas. Their motives here are primarily an intense, seething hatred of all things Islamic, and they make no distinctions between Salafist and Sufi, or between Sunni and Shia. Thus they are incapable of seeing how the "Sunni turn" of the State Dept. could possibly benefit Israel, or at least point a dagger at Iran, because their hatred prevents them from making any such analysis. They simply see "radical Muslims" taking over where "secular" satraps once ruled, and see an existential threat. So it is no skin off their noses if they have helped derail US policy, which they simply see as "pro-Muslim," and a result of Obama's "Muslim heritage," as one trolling moron recently put it.
end of part 1 of 2
A. G. Phillbin
September 19th, 2012 at 12:43 pm
Part 2 of 2
As for the Muslim demonstrators, let me suggest that this is no more the true motivation for these protests than the use of pig fat in cartridges was the cause of the Sepoy Mutiny. The situation in which the US is still trying to dominate the Muslim world (and is, or has been, or threatens to be, at war with much of it) is the real cause. With that reality in the background, ANYTHING can set off a conflagration.
Also, has anyone noticed that the demonstration which took out the US ambassador in Benghazi coincided with the eleventh anniversary of the 9-11 attack? Political timing, anyone?
END
A. G. Phillbin
September 19th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
Agreed. They derailed a policy that was insane to begin with. However, for an intelligent (and I use that word advisedly) interventionist, it was the best option available, given that Ben Ali and Mubarak were unsalvagable. I think it is also giving the crowd around Geller/Spencer/Horowitz too much credit for having a deliberate plan to do anything more than inflame hatred.
Benson
September 19th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
The Mid-East / Islamic world is a power keg. I see the potential for any small "spark" such as this film to incite mass rioting. As many have stated- the riots were less a protest of the film and more about seething rage at US, Israeli, and Western Policy that has been stewing there for years.
Let's see what happens this week with the French paper that is printing some Mohammad cartoons later this week. Round two perhaps?
A. G. Phillbin
September 19th, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Down the memory hole, possibly to be revived if plans to attack Iran are put back on track. Otherwise, Citizen Baz, erase it from your loyal(?) mind!!
We must continue firing until the shooting stops!
A. G. Phillbin
September 19th, 2012 at 12:54 pm
You are giving them too much credit. They just hat muzzies, that's all.
ML3
September 19th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
I couldn't have said it better, LL
ML3
September 19th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
I couldn't have said it better, LL
jeff_davis
September 19th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
"The vote of support would I suspect go to those who do not invade and destroy other nations and the lives of the people living there, in other words the civilised."
Thanks, Mick.
Why is it so hard for people to look at the world and see just who is doing the threatening, invading, killing, stealing, lying, dispossessing, spying, torturing, droning, sanctioning(economic warfare), destabilizing, assassinating, corrupting foreign political process by bankrolling "opposition" quislings, subverting popularly elected governments(that they don't like), supporting — bribing — dictators(that they do like), and — I may have missed a few — so on?
jeff_davis
September 19th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
"The vote of support would I suspect go to those who do not invade and destroy other nations and the lives of the people living there, in other words the civilised."
Thanks, Mick.
Why is it so hard for people to look at the world and see just who is doing the threatening, invading, killing, destroying, stealing, lying, dispossessing, spying, torturing, droning, sanctioning(economic warfare), destabilizing, assassinating, corrupting foreign political process by bankrolling "opposition" quislings, subverting popularly elected governments(that they don't like), supporting — bribing — dictators(that they do like), and — I may have missed a few — so on?
Those poor schmos need to unwrap themselves from the flag and put down the Kool-aid.
Not gonna happen, so if you actually ***have*** a brain, then you best have a plan for dealing with the "crash and burn, because it's coming.
George
September 19th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
Exactly. The movie was really a plot by the anti-Islamic network–perhaps with international elements–looking to deliberately instigate tension and violence. Geller, Spencer, Horowitz, and the rest of the anti-Islam network would in turn feed off of the conflict and fan the flames further. As Raimondo notes, this isn't free speech, but a conspiracy to cause violence.
jeff_davis
September 19th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
"How do people who can barely afford to eat meat once a month all of a sudden come up with the materials and resources necessary to conduct these large scale protests? Banners, flags, signs, loudspeakers, graphics, tech support, etc, etc."
Muslims have a sense of community — of social cohesion — essential for survival. Americans have none. In fact, American society is socially and politically fragmented, and at war with itself. This is no accident. It is brought to you — for profit — by the corporate-owned media, and allows the 1% to own the country and run the show.
When a community is poor, social cohesion is essential for survival. For Muslims it is organic, built into the culture, and centers around the mosque. The demonstrations you cite come out of the mosque, after the people gather there to discuss whatever events impact there lives, and to then decide on what actions they should take.
jeff_davis
September 19th, 2012 at 3:01 pm
My take as well. The con-man/criminal anti-Muslim Coptic Christian needed another plan — something arguably legal, that wouldn't land him in jail — for getting a piece of the American Dream. He decided to make a movie that he figured could make him some money, be emotionally satisfying, make him famous, and put him on excellent terms — hitched the old wagon, so to speak — with the powerful and moneyed leadership of the ascendent anti-Muslim slash pro-Israeli crowd. A damn fine plan if you ask me. So far it seems to have worked for everyone who has tried it the last several decades.
jeff_davis
September 19th, 2012 at 3:01 pm
My take as well.
The con-man/criminal anti-Muslim Coptic Christian needed another plan — something arguably legal, that wouldn't land him in jail — for getting a piece of the American Dream. He decided to make a movie that he figured could make him some money, be emotionally satisfying, make him famous, and put him on excellent terms — hitched the old wagon, so to speak — with the powerful and moneyed leadership of the ascendent anti-Muslim slash pro-Israeli crowd.
Insult the Muslims. A damn fine plan if you ask me. Up until now, it seems to have worked swimmingly the last several decades for anyone who has tried it.
AngelaKeaton
September 19th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
Richard, can't imagine what might have turned you off? Was it that actual Jew haters spoke worst most vile slander against Noam Chomsky, drove Norman Finkelstein out of his job, chased Joel Kovel out of Bard, hounded Tony Judt to his grave, ran Phil Weiss off of the New York Observer, harangued Judith Butler over and over again until she practically had to grovel. Not mention Rae Abileah man handled by thugs and Emily Henochowicz getting her eye taken out. Or petty just nonsense like hacking Richard Silverstein's site.
Or was it the open season on insults, racists taunts and outright anti when it comes to attacking certain Code Pinkers, JVP, Marc Ellis (currently being persecuted Kenneth Starr, see below), and Max Blumenthal? Even the most innocuous statements by MJ Rosenberg make him a target for those who would clearly be more comfortable wearing sheets in public.
If you want to see the Real NewAntisemitism™ in action: Religious Right and NeoCons Gang Up on a Progressive Jew: Ken Starr’s Pogram http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/06/20/ken-starrs…
Meanwhile, I was going to eat something but this came up: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/09/pro-israel-ads-sugg…
Ben_C
September 19th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
What does Charles Krauthammer think about this:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=770_1189777102
Jaime
September 19th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
A better alternative is for you to tell your countrymen to grow the number of their neurons and stop voting for a bunch of corrupt politicians who go around invading and destroying other nations and who do not give a damn about ordinary people like you anyway.
Johnny in Wi.
September 19th, 2012 at 3:22 pm
Another great reporting job by Justin. Of course I have been saying all along that this had the stink of an Israeli false falg operation. I don't mean the Mossad but the real radical loons like Gellar and Spencer. I would think that the Mossad would have a little more sense.
AngelaKeaton
September 19th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Not everything is hopeless: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-lean/11-lies…
Just don't read the comment thread. It's less appetizing than the Geller ads.
richard vajs
September 19th, 2012 at 5:40 pm
Angela,
You are very knowledgible – and so much more than I was back then. What got to me in 1967 was much simpler. I had just gotten out of the Navy – I had been on an aircraft carrier which was operating in VietNam waters. At the time I was living in Los Angeles and had relatives living in Wilshire (financial district near Hollywood) of Los Angeles. My in-laws were Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. Anyway, out there on Wilshire Boulevard, in the middle of the day, there were grown men with their jackets off, dancing around in a big circle in some sort of victory dance to the sound of a portable record player playing the Jewish anthem "Havah Nagilah". Because of my in-laws, I knew vaguely about the war Israel was fighting then. What irritated me was these "Americans" were celebrating an Israeli victory even while their own country was deadlocked in its own war in Asia where things weren't going so great, from what I had seen.
Backwoodsman
September 19th, 2012 at 6:34 pm
JR's analysis, as always is incisive and worth looking at. But I personally think he is over-thinking it.
The likes of Klein and right wing Copts don't need a reason to excrete a pile of poop like this. As for promoting this masterpiece in Egypt (and by extension elsewhere), this particular group of Copts had hitch their wagon with Mubarek and the mukhabarat. They are definitely anti-MB. I don't think they thought it through, though, because, they may have to worry about the the Salafis, who are more popular with the labor class.
If the effects of the movie are at cross-purposes with US interests, it is possible that there may be a master mind, but not necessarily. The US has been doing everything possible to spoil things in MENA (Gitmo, Abu Gharaib, flushing Qurans, Gen Boykin, Bagram, burning Qurans, Kandahar, Ramadhi, various weddings, Ground Zero Mosque, backing Gadhafi and Mubarek til the last possible moment, and so on and on). All above was according to plan. Occasionally, somethings, like this movie could happen off script. The average Muslim remembers all this (and Mussadegh, and Albright's half million a year butcher's bill, and the Vincennce, and much more). It is not anybody else's fault that the average American thinks history resets every new year.
Backwoodsman
September 19th, 2012 at 6:34 pm
JR's analysis, as always is incisive and worth looking at. But I personally think he is over-thinking it.
The likes of Klein and right wing Copts don't need a reason to excrete a pile of poop like this. As for promoting this masterpiece in Egypt (and by extension elsewhere), this particular group of Copts had hitch their wagon with Mubarek and the mukhabarat. They are definitely anti-MB. I don't think they thought it through, though, because, they may have to worry about the the Salafis, who are more popular with the labor class.
If the effects of the movie are at cross-purposes with US interests, it is possible that there may be a master mind, but not necessarily. The US has been doing everything possible to spoil things in MENA (Gitmo, Abu Gharaib, flushing Qurans, Gen Boykin, Bagram, burning Qurans, Kandahar, Ramadhi, various weddings, Ground Zero Mosque, backing Gadhafi and Mubarek til the last possible moment, and so on and on). All above was according to plan. Occasionally, somethings, like this movie could happen off script. The average Muslim remembers all this (and Mussadegh, and Albright's half million a year butcher's bill, and the Vincennce, and much more). It is not anybody else's fault that the average American thinks history resets every new year.
JoaoAlfaiate
September 19th, 2012 at 8:07 pm
Perhaps you did not notice but Uncle Sam has killed plenty of people in Iraq and Afghanistan over the last few years and israel has killed lots in Lebanon and Gaza. So if you want to talk about violence and death don't forget the 600,000 Iraqis sanctions starved and the 100,000 or so killed during the US occupation/invasion…and the thousands killed by israel in Lebanon and Gaza, the vast majority being totally innocence.
Jan Burton
September 19th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
Lots of thumbs down, but no will answer the question: Why are Muslim-sensitivies more fascinating and intriguing than anyone elses?
The sad answer: Muslim extremists are known to riot and kill people when offended (while moderates often support blasphemy laws, if not the riots). That's why people care about Muslim sensitivities but not that of, say, Christians.
The moral of the story is simple enough. If you want people to listen when you're "offended" just threaten to kill them. Seems to get attention and a fair bit of "respect" too.
Mike
September 19th, 2012 at 9:04 pm
Of course there is an excuse. You are dealing with a population who has been the consistent passive recipient of prime Western goods and services for the last century: goods like nitrocellulose and mustard gas accompanied by services like strafing and rape.
Suggesting that they have no excuse for violence is an exact corollary to the notion that American Indians were "savages" because they resisted their slaughter vigorously on occasion. If it were not for the blood on the ground in each case the ignorance would be amusing. As it is it is horrifying.
And, while spell-check exists, please continue to abstain as it facilitates your identification.
bke
September 19th, 2012 at 9:47 pm
where are all the libertarians at now?
1. You want someone arrested for "hate speech" it seems. Who gets to determine what is and what isn't hate speech?
2. Should be convicted as well? Yeah, let's just have a kangaroo court without benefit of due process.
I remember when those who frequented this site used to support the Bill of Rights.
Gil
September 19th, 2012 at 10:42 pm
Exactly, So some made a crappy video insulting Islam and their Prophet and Muslims take the bait. Yep, it sure shows Islam is the religion of peace. "We want freedom of speech and religion?" "No, not really."
Thomas L. Knapp
September 19th, 2012 at 10:56 pm
liveload,
I'm not sure where you think we disagree. Maybe you should read my comment before responding to it.
Jeff
September 20th, 2012 at 1:07 am
So Mike you can excuse the murder of 4 innocent Americans in Libia because mustard gas? These murders and riots are "resisted their slaughter vigorously "…. How dare you!
Jeff
September 20th, 2012 at 1:09 am
So what you are saying is that the Americans in teh Embassy "had it coming due to the wars taht killed thousands of civillians… How can someoen on a peace site justify murder and viloence against civillians?
Jeff
September 20th, 2012 at 1:12 am
So it is OK for Moslem countries who control the media to draw anti-semetic cartoons of hooked nosed Jewish vampires killing innocent children but it is not ok to all some individual or orginization say something inflammitory against Mohammed?
This is freedom of speech?
Jeff
September 20th, 2012 at 1:17 am
I am not sure if you are talking about the brutal Islamic dictators or what but Arabs have killed many more Arabs then the west have… Take a look at Syria, why is there no great condemnation of the slaughter of thousands of protesters in the street. When the Flotilla came to Gaza with "activists" aremed with crow bars chain and knives and 9 are killed the world it up in arms, but Syria,,,, Do you really hold Arabs to a diffrent standard?
reigert
September 20th, 2012 at 2:17 am
Hi JR –
All in all a great post, yet to me it seems you're missing half the story, i.e. the "bigger pic" so to speak. Suspend, for a moment (and for argument's sake), any (dis)belief about the political motives of the two opposing sides involved.
Let's say there's one side claiming "Islam – as a doctrine – is not a religion of peace." The other side's claim in a nutshell "US (Unified Superstate that once was America) welfare/warfare state interventionism is a disaster for ordinary people worldwide". All right?
Now here's my problem with both sides, something to do with the handwringing..
You can hear it in the MSM, among dedicated "conservative" followers of Big Govt Inc. and even around some Ron Paul supporters.
Let's shed some more light on these two contrasting points of view that come with two different types of discourse about "govt. stupidity". On the one hand, there's the "provoking blowback" line of Dr. Paul, and on the other hand the "giving in to Islam, by surrendering free speech" perspective by the likes of Robert Spencer.
There's something with the underlying handwringing about govt. stupidity, from either perspective, that bothers me. I can't shake the feeling that it reinforces the oxymoronic idea about govt. acting sensibly, or, at any rate, with the concern of ordinary citizens at heart.
But why perpetuate this myth that if govt. policies are testimony to a blatant disregard of our best interests, it must be out of stupidity, historical short-sightedness or just plain old cowardice?
My reply to the handwringing:
RP pov: Maybe the ones currently in power aren't that stupid, i.e. Arab Spring(TM) "blowback" might just be exactly what they seek.
RS pov: Maybe the bigger picture is that our political overlords actively seek to surrender (our) freedom of expression.
To you JR, I submit that those who obligingly participate in this black-and-white game, stand a chance of being used by the powers that be (govt + monetary fascists) a useful idiots, pawns in their break/make crap game. Some over here cry for "justice" served cold for Spencer/Geller cs., while some on JW and affiliated sites cry for vengeance laid upon traitors of "the West", as they call it. So you see, the more vulnerable minds already seem to be on edge. Scale this thing up, stir thoroughly with a state-sponsored economic Armageddon, and the end result will be to the liking of those who'll seize the opportunity to realize "total government".
Think about it.
Kind regs from / Amsterdam (clip) /, Holland,
Richard
reigert
September 20th, 2012 at 2:17 am
Hi JR –
All in all a great post, yet to me it seems you're missing half the story, i.e. the "bigger pic" so to speak. Suspend, for a moment (and for argument's sake), any (dis)belief about the political motives of the two opposing sides involved.
Let's say there's one side claiming "Islam – as a doctrine – is not a religion of peace."
The other side's claim in a nutshell "US (Unified Superstate that once was America) welfare/warfare state interventionism is a disaster for ordinary people worldwide". All right?
Now here's my problem with both sides, something to do with the handwringing..
You can hear it in the MSM, among dedicated "conservative" followers of Big Govt Inc. and even around some Ron Paul supporters.
Let's shed some more light on these two contrasting points of view that come with two different types of discourse about "govt. stupidity". On the one hand, there's the "provoking blowback" line of Dr. Paul, and on the other hand the "giving in to Islam, by surrendering free speech" perspective by the likes of Robert Spencer.
There's something with the underlying handwringing about govt. stupidity, from either perspective, that bothers me. I can't shake the feeling that it reinforces the oxymoronic idea about govt. acting sensibly, or, at any rate, with the concern of ordinary citizens at heart.
But why perpetuate this myth that if govt. policies are testimony to a blatant disregard of our best interests, it must be out of stupidity, historical short-sightedness or just plain old cowardice?
My reply to the handwringing:
RP pov: Maybe the ones currently in power aren't that stupid, i.e. Arab Spring(TM) "blowback" might just be exactly what they seek.
RS pov: Maybe the bigger picture is that our political overlords actively seek to surrender (our) freedom of expression.
To you JR, I submit that those who obligingly participate in this black-and-white game, stand a chance of being used by the powers that be (govt + monetary fascists) a useful idiots, pawns in their break/make crap game. Some over here cry for "justice" served cold for Spencer/Geller cs., while some on JW and affiliated sites cry for vengeance laid upon traitors of "the West", as they call it. So you see, the more vulnerable minds already seem to be on edge. Scale this thing up, stir thoroughly with a state-sponsored economic Armageddon, and the end result will be to the liking of those who'll seize the opportunity to realize "total government".
Think about it.
Kind regs from / Amsterdam (clip) /, Holland,
Richard
reigert
September 20th, 2012 at 2:17 am
Hi JR –
All in all a great post, yet to me it seems you're missing half the story, i.e. the "bigger pic" so to speak. Suspend, for a moment (and for argument's sake), any (dis)belief about the political motives of the two opposing sides involved.
Let's say there's one side claiming "Islam – as a doctrine – is not a religion of peace."
The other side's claim in a nutshell "US* welfare/warfare state interventionism is a disaster for ordinary people worldwide". All right?
Now here's my problem with both sides, something to do with the handwringing..
You can hear it in the MSM, among dedicated "conservative" followers of Big Govt Inc. and even around some Ron Paul supporters.
Let's shed some more light on these two contrasting points of view that come with two different types of discourse about "govt. stupidity". On the one hand, there's the "provoking blowback" line of Dr. Paul, and on the other hand the "giving in to Islam, by surrendering free speech" perspective by the likes of Robert Spencer.
There's something with the underlying handwringing about govt. stupidity, from either perspective, that bothers me. I can't shake the feeling that it reinforces the oxymoronic idea about govt. acting sensibly, or, at any rate, with the concern of ordinary citizens at heart.
But why perpetuate this myth that if govt. policies are testimony to a blatant disregard of our best interests, it must be out of stupidity, historical short-sightedness or just plain old cowardice?
My reply to the handwringing:
RP pov: Maybe the ones currently in power aren't that stupid, i.e. Arab Spring(TM) "blowback" might just be exactly what they seek.
RS pov: Maybe the bigger picture is that our political overlords actively seek to surrender (our) freedom of expression.
To you, JR, I submit that those who obligingly participate in this black-and-white game, stand a chance of being used by the powers that be (govt/monetary fascists partnership) as useful idiots, pawns in their break/make crap game.
Some over here cry for "justice" served cold for Spencer/Geller cs., while some on JW and affiliated sites cry for vengeance laid upon traitors of "the West", as they call it. So you see, the more vulnerable minds already seem to be on edge. Scale this thing up, stir thoroughly with a state-sponsored economic Armageddon, and the end result will be to the liking of those who'll seize the opportunity to realize "total government".
Think about it.
Kind regs from / Amsterdam (clip) /, Holland,
Richard
* (US, as in: the Unified Superstate that once was America)
Chris Mallory
September 20th, 2012 at 5:15 am
Government employees are legitimate targets.
richard vajs
September 20th, 2012 at 5:25 am
As a interesting aside, my German Jewish in-laws, who had left everything in Nazi Germany in 1936, did not hate the Germans – they felt saddened as if there had been a family rift. They didn't even hate Hitler – they objected to him because "he didn't control the roughnecks". They considered themselves German by culture, Americans by nationality, and Jewish by faith. They had little interest in Israel – they considered Israel as "a Russian-Jewish thing". If alive today, I am sure they would view Netanyahou as a troublemaker.
Zionists & Neo-Cons Manipulating U.S. & Western Media (WILK is part of this) To Provoke Muslim World For Benefit Of Romney & Israel & WWIII; Are You Still Falling For The "Anti-Semite" and "Conspiracy Theory" TRICKS? |
September 20th, 2012 at 5:37 am
[...] The ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video [...]
harr
September 20th, 2012 at 5:44 am
no one will answer the question because the agenda they have won't allow it. All anti-muslim videos are by the Mossad or some agent of the mythical Israeli "hasbara" squad, and all anti-zionist, anti-Jew, anti-Israel videos (which outnumber anti-muslim 100:1) are just free speech. THAT is libertarian muslim exceptionalism.
phildem
September 20th, 2012 at 6:26 am
For the record, I'm wary of the point scoring attribute. I'v seen other sites have it badly abused by full-time commentators.
The clash of civilization's narrative is re-inforced by the controversy surrounding this video, and continues to pit Christian West, against Muslim east. It's already had more air-time than it deserves.
Dutch
September 20th, 2012 at 8:02 am
Who can doubt this movie was fabricated for precisely the purpose it has served? To inflame Muslim tensions and justify US 'peacekeeping', that just coincidentally comes with the takeover of Middle Eastern governments.
Looks like the final theatrical act of government vs religion is set to start. So sad that the point that Justin leaves out, and Justin ALWAYS leaves out, is that it is not too late to withdraw your consent from both.
But don't blame him too much. Just like the US Empire, his livelihood depends on the perpetuation of these events too. If we achieve world peace, Antiwar.com doesn't have much of a market or readership…
The ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video | My Catbird Seat
September 20th, 2012 at 8:10 am
[...] Antiwar.com [...]
Dutch
September 20th, 2012 at 8:25 am
Agreed. Did the theme of this story require him to take pot shots at Libertarianism by claiming that Libertarians 'appreciate' that Nakoula is a convicted meth dealer?
In fact does this story do anything but perpetuate your engagement and stoke your anger at these manufactured events?
Religion and government have manufactured conflicts for 1000s of years that have led to nothing but death and destruction to the innocent and uninterested. Where is Justin's call to withdraw your consent from both amidst his 'reasoned' take on their methods of manipulation. I don't see it.
Instead this story says "the government and religion are fabricating unrest and manipulating you to support their agenda. You should stay engaged to see where this goes".
Guess what, we know where it goes. But who wants any part of it? Besides someone whose website depends on them for its continued relevance?
Dutch
September 20th, 2012 at 8:29 am
The answer is simpler than most will acknowledge or accept.
Muslim sensitivities are the popular TV show right now. Period.
Its all theater, and the show that brings in money keeps running. Money in the form of new subsidiaries for the US Empire.
Note that Justin's fan site is doing quite well too.
Justin Raimondo
September 20th, 2012 at 9:07 am
Good point.
Justin Raimondo
September 20th, 2012 at 9:10 am
I wasn't saying I agreed with the policy — as my several recent columns have made clear — only that upending that policy is the result of the video imbroglio.
Jimmy Walter
September 20th, 2012 at 11:12 am
Watch the Meet the Press interview of Netanyahoo (pun) and one can see that he was behind the assassination of the Ambassador http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/vp/49051806#4…
Jimmy Walter
September 20th, 2012 at 11:12 am
Watch the Meet the Press interview of Netanyahoo (pun) and one can see that he was behind the assassination of the Ambassador http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/vp/49051806#4…
WTE
September 20th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
Dd they finally ban you know who?
Ben_C
September 20th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
Completely unrelated to comments above, and I intended to bring the up the other day: apparently even the almighty "Syrian Rebels" have 'mocked' this 'shock' caused by this film:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09…
What I will say about these idiots is that: I've never seen such a whiny group of armed militant terrorist crybabies in my entire life….
Yeah…the Libyan "rebels" and their complaining about payments was bad…but this is over the top…
Does anyone truly expect these fools to be capable of taking over and holding together the Nation of Syria??? Seriously???
We might as well anoint Merry Poppins or Jason Ditz at Syria's new head of state–I'm guess they 'might' last a bit longer–meaning 10 seconds, instead of 5….
This is a complete joke….
Ben_C
September 20th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
Completely unrelated to comments above, and I intended to bring the up the other day: apparently even the almighty "Syrian Rebels" have 'mocked' this 'shock' caused by this film:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09…
What I will say about these idiots is that: I've never seen such a whiny group of armed militant terrorist crybabies in my entire life….
Yeah…the Libyan "rebels" and their complaining about payments was bad…but this is over the top…
Does anyone truly expect these fools to be capable of taking over and holding together the Nation of Syria??? Seriously???
We might as well anoint Mary Poppins or Jason Ditz at Syria's new head of state–I'm guess they 'might' last a bit longer–meaning 10 seconds, instead of 5….
This is a complete joke….
Ben_C
September 20th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
Completely unrelated to comments above, and I intended to bring the up the other day: apparently even the almighty "Syrian Rebels" have 'mocked' this 'shock' caused by this film:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09…
What I will say about these idiots is that: I've never seen such a whiny group of armed militant terrorist crybabies in my entire life….
Yeah…the Libyan "rebels" and their complaining about payments was bad…but this is over the top…
Does anyone truly expect these fools to be capable of taking over, and holding together, the Nation of Syria??? Seriously???
We might as well anoint Mary Poppins or Jason Ditz as Syria's new head of state–I'm guessing they 'might' last a bit longer–meaning 10 seconds, instead of 5….
This is a complete joke….
Anonymous
September 20th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
[...] [...]
jeff_davis
September 20th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
"…hooked nosed Jewish vampires killing innocent children…"
But you see, this is true. Deir Yassin, the Nakba, Sabra and Chatila, Beirut across the years, Gaza with regularity, and of course, the West Bank on a daily basis.
Get over it. If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
jeff_davis
September 20th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
"…hooked nosed Jewish vampires killing innocent children…"
But you see, this is actually the truth. Deir Yassin, the Nakba, Sabra and Chatila, Beirut across the years, Gaza with regularity, and of course, the West Bank on a daily basis.
Get over it. If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
Admittedly, not all Jewish killers are hook-nosed.
jeff_davis
September 20th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
The lancet magazine, with a long-established record of scientific excellence, and using the accepted standard for measuring "excess" deaths, put the number of dead Iraqis at close to one million.
That eminent nobel-winning scientist George "nucular" Bush says the Lancet methodology has been discredited. Who ya gonna believe?
Don't help the liars and no-nothings by parroting their nonsensical "guesses". Make it a million dead as the result of the US's illegal invasion.
jeff_davis
September 20th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
Nothing innocent about those Americans. They fomented, and assisted with an illegal air war, in the illegal rebellion that turned Libya into a killing field and turned the wealth of LIbya over to Western plutocrats.
Some people call it justice, others call it payback.
Gaddafi was the best thing that ever happened to LIbya. For forty years he faithfully served the Libyan people and the people of greater Africa by refusing to turn Libya over to the predations of the Western colonialist/imperialists.
jeff_davis
September 20th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
You know d*mn well who I'm talking about: Israel and its US poodle.
So no need to play coy my Hasbara friend. Is it Jeff Cohen, Jeff Goldstein, Jeff Rosen,….or what? C'mon, be a man not a weasel. For the record, I'm an American and a full-blooded Ashkenazi Jew. How about you? Do you dare to tell the truth?
Speaking of which,…
We often hear the phrase "Israel's right to exist" and along with it,
"Israel's right to self-defense." Hear them endlessly, by
propagandists who repeat them endlessly. But endless repetition does
not make a thing true. And the "legitimacy" that arises from endless
repetition is not legitimacy at all, but rather the boilerplate
bull**** of well executed propaganda.
Yet the truth exists.
And here it is: a fact-based, truth-based, ethics-based point of view.
In 1917, the British Imperial elite and the World Zionist Organization
colluded in a criminal conspiracy to steal Palestine from the people
– 95% Arab — who had lived there for 70 generations, and to give it
to the Jews/Zionists. That's ***STEAL***, as in take what doesn't
belong to you. This "plan" was a crime then, as it is a crime now. A
crime is still a crime, despite control and censorship of the media.
A crime is still a crime despite 90 years of impunity from
prosecution or 90 years of propaganda. NO AMOUNT OF TIME CAN CHANGE A
LIE INTO THE TRUTH; NO AMOUNT TIME CAN CONVERT A CRIME INTO A LEGAL ACT.
The Zionist entity called Israel is nothing less than a geopolitical
crime-in-progress. There's your reality for you.
So when next you hear about Israel's "right to exist", consider: what
crime has a "right to exist"?, what criminal enterprise has a "right
to exist"? Add to that: what criminal has a "right to self-defense"?
What criminal has the right to commit violence in the furtherance of a
crime? What criminal has the right to fight back against the lawful
authority that arrives to halt the crime and arrest the criminals?
Israel, the Zionists, their enablers, and their supporters are
criminals: thieves and murderers on a global scale. They have no
"right to exist" (not so long as they remain criminals) and they have no "right to
self-defense" as they commit their crimes.
But they do have rights. They have the right to surrender to a
competent authority, and not suffer summary execution. The right to a
fair trial. If found guilty, the right to a proportionate penalty.
And once the offending parties have "done their time", the right to
rejoin society and resume a peaceful cooperative existence.
********************************
And finally, for anyone willing — willingness is the hard part — to get over their prejudices:
These are the crucial sources for understanding the situation the
world finds itself in today vis a vis Israel.
The last three are long, scholarly, and frankly, a bit dry. However,
the first, for obvious reasons, is quite entertaining. (The first is also the gold standard, and should be read and reread and studied. In a world where truth is a rare and precious commodity, this piece by Twain is a triple treasure: entertaining, truthful, and — perhaps most important — BALANCED.)
"Concerning the Jews" by Mark Twain http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/mtw…
The Hidden History of Zionism http://www.marxists.de/middleast/schoenman/
Behind the Balfour Declaration http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p389_John.html#ftn1…
Benjamin Freedman http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/freedma…
********************************************
Finally, let me close with the words of none other than Ben Gurion himself:
"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would
never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their
country. Sure God promised it to us, but what does that matter to
them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler,
Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have
come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?
****They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time,…***
[And how's that workin' out for you?!! JD]
but for the moment there is no chance. So, it's simple: we have to stay strong and
maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the
Arabs will wipe us out. [Nahum Goldmann, The Jewish Paradox, p. 9]
A. G. Phillbin
September 20th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
The video was a pretext waiting to be used, not a true cause of action. If the US was not involved in invading Afghanistan, invading Iraq, invading Pakistan, throwing drones around, etc., would anyone even care about that stupid video? No more than pig fat laced cartridges would have caused the Sepoy Mutiny without the British Raj.
jeff_davis
September 20th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
I always use the appearance on this site of Hasbara professional apologists to post the above response. It's my duty as a Jew to help fair-minded but uninformed people to find the truth. Having gotten that out of the way, let me deal with your silly little excuse for an argument.
"…Arabs have killed many more Arabs then the west have."
So because Arabs may have had tribal or sectarian conflicts over the centuries, we should overlook the current lawless slaughter, torture, theft, and lying of the West on behalf of Israel? Let me kiss the hem of your skirt oh icon of piety and goodness.
"I am not sure if you are talking about the brutal Islamic dictators or what…"
You mean like the House of Saud, the Poobah of Bahrain, the Emir of Qatar, the Algerian military junta, Saddam (before the fall), the Kuwaiti royals, or Mubarak and his military?
"Take a look at Syria, why is there no great condemnation of the slaughter of thousands of protesters in the street."
Maybe because they aren't protesters but armed and violent rebels involved in a foreign-supported — and likely initiated — revolt against the historically accepted-as-legitimate leadership of that country. And if Assad is occasionally severe with those who challenge his rule, it's worth noting the examples of Iraq and Libya, which were kept stable and peaceful by strong (ie severe) leaders despite the tribal and fractious nature of Arab societies. Kept stable that is until the West went on an invading, killing, and stealing spree. Look in the mirror, mr. criminal enabler
And that's not even mentioning the Kafkaesque support in Libya, and now Syria, for al Quaeda mercenary jihadis.
Get a clue.
"When the Flotilla came to Gaza with "activists" armed with crow bars chain and knives and 9 are killed the world it up in arms,…"
Clearly you are referring to lawful self-defense against an unlawful military assault, in international waters, on a ship attempting to proceed against an unlawful naval blockade of the Gaza concentration camp. They were the same Zionist killers who regularly murder around the world those who protest and oppose Zionist criminality.
"Do you really hold Arabs to a diffrent standard?"
The Arabs seek justice, the Zionists want a free pass for their global crime-in-progress. The standard applied is the same, it's the difference in the acts being committed that underpins the difference in response.
Time, Mr. Hasbara, for you to pack your bags and hie thee hence. You'll make no headway here. We are armored against your criminal mythology.
Paleocon Justin Raimondo: "Pro-Israel network" of "vermin" behind Muhammad video » Choosing Life - God's Gift To The Unborn
September 20th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
[...] ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video,” by Justin Raimondo at Antiwar.com, September 19 (thanks to all who sent this in): If someone had planned to upend US foreign policy [...]
Carpenter
September 20th, 2012 at 4:45 pm
It was clear to me too, and I was just waiting for the pro-Israeli connection that we all knew would be there. And sure enough, Pamela Geller is Jewish and a hardcore Zionist. She wants to provoke reactions in Muslim countries, knowing that Muslims won't take insults quietly like controlled Christians in the West, and that, yes, Muslims are more violent. This, she knew, would horrify Westerners who are too far gone into no-values land to understand why a people would defend their religion, like Christians did in the (evil, bigoted, sexist etc) past. And so there would be more justification for the "War on Terror".
These people are also working hard on derailing immigration critics in Europe. "Stop criticizing mass immigration as such, and only talk about how Islam's values are less tolerant! Then you'll have the moral high ground! And you'll be on the same side as neocon-loving George Bush and Tony Blair when they invaded Iraq!"
But when did the neocons ever oppose mass immigration? They promote it, hard. In the U.S. and Europe. Israel pulled back its embassy from Austria when the FPÖ entered government, and then worked with EU nations to isolate Austria and make its people feel targeted. Neocon-loyal Bush leaned on the EU to accept Turkey as a member, and they all approve of Middle Eastern immigration to Europe. Whether it is Muslim, Christian or whatever doesn't matter.
It is stupid of groups like the EDL to support these Zionists, who want immigration critics to start cheering for the War on Terror, a war against Israel's opponents, while accepting immigration "as long as it's not Islamist immigration." This movie serves that strategy, focusing once again on religion, providing fodder for the pro-Zionist factions among immigration critics, and for the neocons they follow.
Carpenter
September 20th, 2012 at 4:53 pm
Afghanistan has been invaded and destroyed. Iraq has been invaded and destroyed. Iran is being strangled economically. The U.S. has supported dictators in Tunisia, Libya (once Qaddafi decided to play ball and cooperated with the CIA in hunting Islamists) and Egypt, dictators whose parties were members of the Socialist International by the way, and who exploited the nations. The U.S. is even now supporting tyrants in nations like Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Yemen. The purpose being to support anyone who will make nice with Israel and isolate the Palestinian resistance, and destroy those who oppose the genocide.
And let's not forget the U.S.-approved military coup that destroyed democracy in Algeria. And Operation Ajax, the CIA plan to support the Shah's coup in Iran, overthrowing democracy there. Etc.
You ask why Middle Easterners are angry? Because the U.S. has killed half a million children in Iraq with starvation sanctions, which Zionist Madeleine Albright said "was worth it", and bombed its infrastructure to bits with on average one bomb raid per week for twelve years before invading. And so on. And so on. All for Israel. Destroy its enemies, support its tyrant friends.
This movie is just the final straw for many.
Note: in 2001 the vast majority of Gulf citizens held positive views of the U.S. A few years later, a majority held negative views. That's just because they are religious crackpots, right? Not because of hundreds of thousands killed in the invasion of Iraq?
Carpenter
September 20th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Truth in satire is okay, yes. Just today Israel killed people in a bombing raid over occupied Palestinian territory. Tens of thousands of Palestinians have been killed over the years. I am sure you don't mind. But Arabs do. Then the Zionists start mocking their religion with cartoons too. For some – only a small minority unfortunately – it is just too much, and they decide to act.
This is hard to fathom for defeated Christians who are kept in check in the West. All Westerners learn to accept mockery and insults toward their culture and religion on a daily basis in schools, universities and media. Anyone who objects will be called a "racist" and shouted down with words like "Holocaust!" and "Slavery!" Not all peoples in the world are this controlled. Some don't take as much crap as Westerners. That is good, not bad.
Carpenter
September 20th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
How do you justify murder and violence against Palestinians? That is the root of all of this. In order to make sure Arabs don't give money and support to Palestinians, tyrants are installed and backed, and Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Syria, the few states that kept supporting the Palestinian resistance, are either isolated or invaded.
The embassy personnel who died in Libya were part of the globalist control of the Middle East, which has murdered hundreds of thousands. Justify that if you can, Jeff, buddy.
The ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video – Justin Raimondo « Stop Making Sense
September 20th, 2012 at 5:11 pm
[...] SOURCE: ANTIWAR Share this:TwitterFacebookRedditDiggStumbleUponLike this:LikeBe the first to like this. Categories: Middle East & North Africa, Neo-Cons, Organised Religion, USA Comments (0) Trackbacks (0) Leave a comment Trackback [...]
Harr
September 20th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
So the hateful cartoons against Jews in the Muslim press are ok but not the anti Muslim cartoons? So freedom of speech is a 1 way street and only Israeli transgressions and criminality are tonbe impugned? No blood on Muslim hands in your world view, right?
be done with all
September 20th, 2012 at 8:07 pm
"English Defense League — a sorry collection of skinheads, neo-Nazis, and soccer hooligans"
These guys have a Jewish division? No wonder I can never make sense of anything. Just throw my hands up :)
be done with all
September 20th, 2012 at 8:07 pm
"English Defense League — a sorry collection of skinheads, neo-Nazis, and soccer hooligans"
These guys have a Jewish division? No wonder I can never make sense of anything. Just throw my hands up :)
Stranger
September 20th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
Meantime this one of the Antiwar's headlines "70% of Imprisoned Afghan Women Were Jailed for Escaping Abusive Homes" Is it possible that this headline also may be cause of "just" muslim anger???
paddy
September 21st, 2012 at 2:32 am
simple questions. considering cindy lee garcia is all over the MSM, why hasn't anyone asked her why she listed a "steven goldberg" as producer of "desert warriors"? who is he? was he an angel investor?
Cindy Lee Davis "Garcia"
Desert Warriors Supporting Role/ Mother Producer: Steven Goldberg http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4555815/resume
scroll to may 5 – what independent film appraised at 100,000 was cindy referring to? http://www.exploretalent.com/cs_profile.php?talen…
paddy
September 21st, 2012 at 2:32 am
simple questions. considering cindy lee garcia is all over the MSM, why hasn't anyone asked her why she listed a "steven goldberg" as producer of "desert warriors"? who is he? was he an angel investor?
Cindy Lee Davis "Garcia"
Desert Warriors Supporting Role/ Mother Producer: Steven Goldberg http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4555815/resume
scroll to may 5 – what independent film appraised at 100,000 was cindy referring to? http://www.exploretalent.com/cs_profile.php?talen…
The ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video
September 21st, 2012 at 4:07 am
[...] Read Entire Article [...]
Dr.Khan
September 21st, 2012 at 6:27 am
No it is not OK….to mock anyony.Repect and be respected.
The ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video :
September 21st, 2012 at 7:19 am
[...] Read Entire Article Follow Us on Twitter /* Spread the Word!RedditStumbleUponEmailPrint [...]
WTE
September 21st, 2012 at 8:01 am
I can see israel making a video like this to further their war machine. However killing people over a video is BS
WTE
September 21st, 2012 at 8:05 am
I love how they leave it out when israel slaughters
NWO Newz for 9-21-12 | Chapel of Chaos Blog
September 21st, 2012 at 6:08 pm
[...] The ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video [...]
Za filmem “Niewinność muzułmanów” stoi siatka ‘proizraelska’ | Gazeta Warszawska
September 22nd, 2012 at 7:57 am
[...] http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/09/18/the-pro-israel-network-behind-the-innocence-video/ [...]
Jeff
September 23rd, 2012 at 12:21 am
You pretty much just wrote an open check to the brutal murder of any western person with taht comment… I am guessing you call yourself a peace activist or something clever like that… I wish people would learn to take responsibility for their own actions and not always blame everyone else…As for Palestinans being the root cause, I thought this was due to teh defimation of Mohammad? All teh mnurders that heppened prior to 48, 67 is that also becasue the Palestians, stop wih teh cowardas excuses! face the truth the act, these acts around the world are against freedom.
Jeff
September 23rd, 2012 at 12:29 am
Ok, so what you are saying that for every anti-semetic Cartoon, Israel has teh right to murder Palestinian children… soa ll these death of Palesinains that you claim are happening would be justifies under teh title "dont take as much crap"..
20,000 Syrians civillians have been killed is teh last year and a half… but i guess you are ok with that because, they are arabs and we understand.. The 2 arabs killed were Jihadist who plan terror attacks against civillians, no body disputes that… by the way hundreds of civilliand. BTW Israeli Arab citizend has more rights then any other Arabs in the whole middle east, yes, the Jewish states gives Arabs more rights than any oftheir brethron, what does that tell you?
Jeff
September 23rd, 2012 at 12:33 am
Interesting how you had to go back 70, 65 and 30 years to find examples of Israeli "violence" – It was about a year ago taht we had Arabs shooting RPG as a yellow schoole bus not to mention the thousands dead with anamialist attacks on resterants, cafes, schools and homes….
Eventually Arabs will learn that they have no choice but to accept the Jewish state, even after loosing a half a dozen wars the most teh can do is complain and kill, they will learn the hard way.If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
Jeff
September 23rd, 2012 at 12:35 am
Israel making the video, are you part of teh Arab lies and propaganda? I heard that Israelis were drinking teh blood of children in Libya… what is wrong with you.. This was made by a christian in the states
WTE
September 24th, 2012 at 5:12 am
Now they are drinking the blood of children?
AMTV News: Birth of the Video Troll, ‘Innocence of Muslims’ | AMTV
September 24th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
[...] http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/09/18/the-pro-israel-network-behind-the-innocence-video/ [...]
Let’s Pack Up Zionist AGENTS Rush Limbaugh, Mike Savage, & Pam Geller and send them permanently to the country they’re loyal to: ISRAEL!!! | Баба Параска
September 27th, 2012 at 5:36 am
[...] The ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video [...]
Gameover: Hate filmmaker jailed - Page 9 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
September 28th, 2012 at 10:49 am
[...] [...]
Bibi’s Crazy UN Speech « Counter Information
September 28th, 2012 at 6:07 pm
[...] your throat out with his bare teeth – is what keeps ideologues like Netanyahu and his American co-thinkers in [...]
The 4th Media » Bibi’s Crazy UN Speech: Medievalist Poses as Champion of “Modernity”
September 29th, 2012 at 1:24 am
[...] your throat out with his bare teeth – is what keeps ideologues like Netanyahu and his American co-thinkers in [...]
Bibi’s Crazy UN Speech Medievalist poses as champion of “modernity” « Middle East atemporal
September 29th, 2012 at 1:35 am
[...] your throat out with his bare teeth – is what keeps ideologues like Netanyahu and his American co-thinkers in [...]
Bibi’s Crazy UN Speech: Medievalist poses as champion of “modernity” | Sabbah Report
September 29th, 2012 at 5:06 am
[...] your throat out with his bare teeth – is what keeps ideologues like Netanyahu and his American co-thinkers in business. Ads ch_client = "sabbah"; ch_width = 300; ch_height = 250; ch_type = "mpu"; ch_sid [...]
Bibi’s Crazy UN Speech | My Catbird Seat
September 29th, 2012 at 5:17 am
[...] throat out with his bare teeth – is what keeps ideologues like Netanyahu and his American co-thinkers in [...]
A Conversation with Kourosh Ziabari and Fars News Agency: Mark Dankof on Israel and the Anti-Islamic Media Attacks « Mark Dankof's America
September 29th, 2012 at 8:10 am
[...] for Fars News Agency. Mark Dankof: Justin Raimondo’s piece for Antiwar.com entitled, “The Pro-Israel Network Behind the Innocence Video,” is the best I’ve recently encountered in underscoring the sordid subterranean network [...]
Jeremiad of a radical ideologue - Blues for Levantium Lost
September 29th, 2012 at 8:33 am
[...] your throat out with his bare teeth – is what keeps ideologues like Netanyahu and his American co-thinkers in [...]
A Conversation with Kourosh Ziabari and Fars News Agency: Mark Dankof on Israel and the Anti-Islamic Media Attacks | SHOAH
September 29th, 2012 at 10:35 am
[...] for Fars News Agency. Mark Dankof: Justin Raimondo’s piece for Antiwar.com entitled, “The Pro-Israel Network Behind the Innocence Video,” is the best I’ve recently encountered in underscoring the sordid subterranean network being [...]
Jett Rucker
September 30th, 2012 at 8:06 am
"Follow the money" is harder when the money (as here) is coming IN, rather than going out. One has to "follow" it "backwards."
Another current case of mysterious money coming in is the millions the formerly terrorist MEK has slathered on complaisant American political poseurs. This money's evident purposes (the purposes are slightly easier to discern than the sources) align closely with the purposes divined for the Innocence film project. If I say I don't care to actually NAME or DESCRIBE the source I have in mind, does that make it clear "whom" I have in mind?
So much mysterious money, but ALL anti-Muslim! Have we seen any mysterious money (that no one was jailed for supplying) DEFENDING Muslims or their religion?
Bibi’s Crazy UN Speech! « Socio-Economics History Blog
September 30th, 2012 at 6:35 pm
[...] your throat out with his bare teeth – is what keeps ideologues like Netanyahu and his American co-thinkers in business. – It’s no wonder the Israeli Foreign Ministry initially held back from releasing a [...]
TRANSCEND MEDIA SERVICE » Bibi’s Crazy UN Speech
October 1st, 2012 at 4:01 am
[...] your throat out with his bare teeth – is what keeps ideologues like Netanyahu and his American co-thinkers in business.Those Eye-ranians, says Bibi, aren’t like the rest of us, which is why deterrence [...]
Sir David
October 2nd, 2012 at 5:05 am
Nice writing Mark
I have an idea about this . Is this a con in the mode of Springtime with Hitler? Remember the Mel Brooks film" the Producers "?
The con artists obtain some money to make a film say 5 million then they make a trailer (. Its known they hired some hollywood facilities but where they enough to make a full legnth film ?)
The trailer is sooo bad sooo insulting , its now not safe to show the film the con artists will say . Since they never made the film in the first place they can now run off with the money while everyone argues about freedom of speech etc etc violence etc
If true a very sweet con very clever
Sir David
20-09-12.html | Today In Palestine
November 30th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
[...] The ‘Pro-Israel’ Network Behind the Innocence Video, Justin Raimondo If someone had planned to upend US foreign policy — to utterly destroy the very basis [.pdf] of all our diplomats (and military personnel) have been working to achieve in the Middle East and throughout the Muslim world — they couldn’t have done a better job of it than whoever put together Innocence of Muslims.link to original.antiwar.com [...]