Is Ron Paul running for president in the wrong party?
The results of the GOP primaries, so far, would certainly seem to suggest that. Paul’s support draws heavily from two constituencies one doesn’t normally associate with the Republican party: young voters, who are overwhelmingly independents, and antiwar voters, who tend to be Democrats. He has carried the youth vote and garnered a significant proportion of independents in virtually every contest: more significantly, polls show him beating President Obama in the general election by winning a huge portion of the independent and youth votes. Combined with the anybody-but-Obama vote, Paul’s potential base of support in a two-way race defines the contours of a winning electoral coalition, one that could win him the White House, bring about a major political realignment – and upend the political Establishment in this country.
The problem, for Paul, is that the GOP leadership is implacably opposed to his candidacy: never mind all that nonsense about a Romney-Paul “alliance,” which was just an invention of the “mainstream” media pushed by the Santorum campaign. After all, the Romneyites stole the Maine caucuses right out from under the Paul campaign, and are doing their best to repeat the same fraud in the rest of the caucus states. Some “alliance”!
Three factors have kept Paul from being a real contender: not only the hostility of the leadership and the age demographics of the average Republican primary voter – which is well over 40 – but also the ideological factor. After a decade and more of neoconservative domination, not only of the party but of the conservative movement, the GOP is the War Party. For the Paul campaign, this is fatal. Ron has made his anti-interventionist views the linchpin of his campaign: he never fails to bring up the issue of war and peace, even when discussing some economic or social topic. That’s because he realizes – unlike some “libertarians” – the issue is central to the question of rolling back the power of government to rule our lives.
While Paul regularly invokes the “Old Right” and the legacy of Robert A. Taft and the Taft Republicans, this tradition has been long forgotten by Republican voters – and deliberately buried and disdained by the party’s intellectuals, such as they are, who regularly rail against “isolationism” and hail FDR and Winston Churchill as their chosen icons.
The result is that, after an initial spurt of success – starting out with a respectable showing in Iowa, and placing second in New Hampshire – the Paul campaign has fallen back to its 2008 levels, with Ron rarely breaking 10 percent.
The response of the Paul campaign has been to hunker down and reassure its enthusiastic supporters – and they haven’t lost their enthusiasm, not by a long shot – that they have a strategy. That strategy is to concentrate on getting delegates, rather than winning “beauty contests,” i.e. primaries in which the results don’t determine who gets the delegates. In many states, the process of delegate selection is long and involved, with county, regional, and state-wide conventions being held to determine who gets to go to Tampa. Given the dedication of the Paulians, and their superior organizational skills, the idea is that Ron will get many more delegates than his vote totals in the primaries would indicate, through sheer perseverance.
However, the process hasn’t always worked out that way. The Paulians, having devoted themselves to learning the arcane rules governing delegate selection, and playing by the book, often arrive at these conventions to find that the rule book has been thrown out by the party leadership. Huge fights have broken out at these shindigs, and the going has been pretty rough: when the party leaders arrive to find the hall packed with under-30 Paulians, all waving signs and wearing buttons, suddenly the rules are “revised,” and the Paulian playbook is no longer applicable.
The Paul campaign started out with the odds stacked against it: the GOP leadership and the “mainstream” media both did everything they could to smear, discredit, and discount him and his supporters. This effort failed: Ron emerged from the pack, and went on to create what is arguably the most vital and alive movement this country has seen since the 1960s.
However, the growth and development of the Paulian movement has now reached its limits within the confines of the GOP, like a potted plant whose roots can no longer be contained. Either the plant is put in the ground, or its roots will become so stunted that the plant will wither and die.
In short, the Paulians must make a decision: either break free of the bonds of the GOP, or else face a future of dwindling political fortunes.
Consider the two likeliest scenarios: 1) Romney gains the magic number of 1144 delegates before the Tampa convention, and is declared the winner: i.e. it’s a repeat of the McCain victory in 2008. And we all remember what happened in 2008: Ron was locked out of the convention, and the Paulians held their own well-attended convention down the street. Paul never endorsed McCain (perish the thought!), and the neocon-run McCain campaign managed to run their candidate – and the GOP – into the ground.
Now, however, we are confronted with a quite different prospect: a brokered convention. With no candidate winning the magic number of delegates, the usual nominating convention-as-coronation scenario is thrown out the window, and what the mainstream media and party officials refer to as “chaos” reigns in Tampa. Translation: the convention will revert back to the way these events normally played out in the Good Old Days, before Big Money and Big Media turned them into political Kabuki theater, with the players and the outcome predetermined from the start.
While this prospect is refreshing, and even exciting – as any disruption in our ritualized political process would be – it still doesn’t hold out much hope for the Paul campaign. The reason is because, short of Paul getting the nomination, there is nothing concrete to be gained from a brokered convention.
With Romney in the lead, delegate-wise, a brokered convention will center on efforts by the Not-Romneys to put together a coalition capable of grabbing the nomination away from Mitt. Yet the Paulians are highly unlikely to be a part of this Not-Romney coalition – unless, of course, they ditch their principles and their whole rationale for launching the campaign to begin with. For this would mean voting for an anti-libertarian schmuck, i.e. either Santorum or Gingrich. That, I believe, is never going to happen: if it did, the Paulian movement would immediately implode, given the enormity of the sell-out.
There is, on the other hand, another possibility, and that is allying with the Romneyites against the Santorum and Gingrich camps. Yet, again, we are faced with the question of what concrete rewards the Paulians could expect to gain from such a dark alliance. In my view, a realistic answer to that question is: exactly nothing.
In the view of some Paul campaign officials, however, the answer is not so clear, as this televised interview with campaign manager Jesse Benton demonstrates. Ignore the typically biased and obnoxious demeanor of the interviewer, and focus on Benton’s answers toward the end, when he says a brokered convention could yield all sorts of rewards for the Paul campaign, such as “a cabinet position,” changes in the party platform — and even “the vice-presidency”!
It’s hard to decide whether this kind of speculation is delusional or just a way of reassuring Paul’s supporters that there’s a good reason to keep sending in the campaign contributions and pinning their hopes on making a splash in Tampa. As we all know, however, a stone makes a splash before it sinks to the bottom of the pond….
The idea that Romney is going to offer the vice-presidential nomination to Ron – or his son, Rand, freshly elected to the Senate from Kentucky – is a pipe dream. The party leadership would never allow it, the convention might well rebel (as a way of expressing conservative discontent with the candidate), and – in my opinion – Romney would never offer it in the first place.
As for changes in the party platform [.pdf] – so what? No one pays attention to these documents, not even the candidates, who are not bound by them. A cabinet position would be a paltry prize indeed, and accepting such a deal – handing the nomination to Romney in exchange for, say, making Nick Gillespie the drug czar – or, more likely, making Rand Paul Transportation Secretary – would be a humiliating end to what started out as a noble crusade.
In each case, the price the Paul campaign would have to pay for such ill-gotten “gains” would be so high that the result would be the effective end of the Paulian movement: that’s because the price would be supporting the nominee, i.e. Mitt Romney, with a personal endorsement from Ron. I, for one, can’t imagine him doing that: whenever he’s asked if he would consider supporting the eventual nominee, Paul gives every indication that the answer is no. He explains why in this interview, in which he emphasizes the Republicans’ warmongering as a major reason not to endorse any of them.
Viewed objectively, and with the long-range goals of the Paulians in mind, there is only one road forward for the movement: the third party route.
Running on a third party ticket would give Paul access to the votes of his natural constituency: the young independents disgusted with both parties who yearn for real change – i.e. a revolution – in Washington. It would give the Old Right remnant in the GOP, which Paul has reawakened from its long sleep, a place to go in November, while also making room for independents, antiwar voters, civil libertarians, disillusioned Obamaites, and other constituencies unlikely to be caught dead voting in a Republican primary.
Polls indicate Paul would get anywhere from 18 percent to 21 percent running as a third party candidate, and the percentage seem to be climbing as the actual election draws nearer. These same polls indicate he would draw two-thirds of his votes from the Republican column, but I don’t think these “drill-down” analyses hold much water: what they leave out is non-voters, new voters, and – most important of all – future events. If the US starts bombing Iran before election day, or, say, we have another economic meltdown, as we did in the winter of 2008, then all bets are off – and the prospect of a Paul victory becomes more than mere wishful thinking.
A Paul third party candidacy would not only open up a prospect that, right now, seems highly unlikely if not impossible – i.e. Ron Paul sitting in the Oval Office – it would also place significant constraints on the other candidates, including President Obama. Faced only with a warmongering Republican, Obama can pretty much do whatever he likes when it comes to provoking, sanctioning, and threatening Iran: after all, antiwar voters have nowhere else to go. With Paul in the race, however, Obama is going to have to be very careful not to lose his left-ish antiwar constituency, which has so far stuck with him as the lesser to the two evils. If and when Obama makes his move against Iran, Paul’s third party campaign will be right there, scarfing up votes from the President’s disillusioned and angry former supporters.
Indeed, the ultimate effect of a Paulian third party ticket could well be preventing the outbreak of a major war in the Middle East. This, it seems to me, is a factor the Paul campaign is going to have to weigh in the balance as it considers its options. In terms of the Paulians’ own principles – especially their characteristic opposition to wars of aggression on moral grounds – this is a powerful argument for launching a third party campaign.
We don’t endorse candidates here at Antiwar.com, and for a very good reason: we’re a journalistic enterprise, not a political organization, and we don’t take orders from any party central committee or faction. Nor do we give a blank check to any politician – no, not even Ron Paul. There can be little doubt, however, that the Paul campaign has had a tremendous effect on the antiwar movement in this country, with several longtime peace campaigners taking up Paul’s cause. He has become a symbol of the anti-interventionist impulse in modern American politics, and his political fate is bound up to a large extent with the fate of the antiwar movement – and the prospects for peace in the 21st century.
He has moved the discourse forward, challenging the premises of the interventionists at every turn and upholding a consistent vision of a republic that respects the sovereignty of all and seeks to lead by example rather than by force. If his voice is stilled after the Tampa convention, American voters will be left with a “choice” of an outright warmonger in Republican clothing versus our somewhat less overtly belligerent albeit no less interventionist sitting President, whose foreign policy record is worse than his predecessor’s.
Ron Paul’s last hurrah cannot – must not — be a “deal” made in Tampa, and I’d be willing to bet the ranch no such deal will be forthcoming. Speaking as a political analyst, and not a partisan, I would venture to say the Paulian movement will peter out and come to nothing if it stays locked within a Republican straitjacket. Liberated from their partisan constraints, Paul’s supporters will be spared the Long March through the GOP apparatus, and instead of wasting their time running for county central committee they’ll be freed up to make the case for peace directly to the American people.
What course the Paul campaign takes in the next few weeks will determine the nature of his political legacy. If it ends in Tampa, then the fate of the Paulian movement will be reflected in this bit of verse from the poet Robinson Jeffers, whose fierce “isolationism” caused him to be exiled from polite “liberal” circles in the run up to World War II:
“While this America settles in the mould of its vulgarity, heavily thickening to empire
“And protest, only a bubble in the molten mass, pops and sighs out, and the mass hardens,
“I sadly smiling remember that the flower fades to make fruit, the fruit rots to make earth.”
Paul has often been asked if he’d run as a third party candidate, and he always gives the same ambiguous answer – and that was necessary, at the time, and proper. However, the moment is fast approaching when ambiguity on this matter becomes increasingly counterproductive, as far as advancing the cause of peace and liberty is concerned.
In politics, timing is everything. Before the movement he created passes the apex of its influence in the GOP and begins to lose its relevance, the candidate and the campaign must stop at this crossroads and contemplate their ultimate direction. The hour of decision has arrived.
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
I would note, for my readers’ information, that this decision cannot wait until the Tampa convention this summer: the most likely vehicle for a Paul third party run, the Libertarian Party, holds its nominating convention at the beginning of May. While it seems likely the LP nomination is Paul’s if he seeks it, the reality is that Paul’s hour of decision will arrive a lot sooner than late August, when the Tampa convention is scheduled to take place. An alternative would be to run on the Constitution Party ticket, which has ballot status in many states: however, the baggage this particular political formation carries may well be a burden the Paulians will wind up wishing they didn’t have to carry. There’s always the course of launching an independent ticket from scratch, but that would be costly and prone to disruption by Republican operatives. Remember how the Democrats followed the Naderites from state to state, mounting harassing lawsuits and keeping Nader off the ballot in several instances? The GOP would no doubt launch a similar operation directed at Paul.
For more on this subject, including my take on how Sen. Rand Paul’s political future plays into all this, see my recent column in Chronicles magazine.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Edward Snowden vs. the Sovietization of America – June 18th, 2013
- A Note to My Readers – June 16th, 2013
- Datagate and the Death of American Liberalism – June 13th, 2013
- Smear Brigade Goes After Snowden – June 11th, 2013
- Edward Snowden, American Hero – June 9th, 2013





LPRP
March 13th, 2012 at 9:22 pm
Great article. Dump dumocreturdicans and run 3rd party.
JBeale
March 13th, 2012 at 9:23 pm
Ron Paul should have made mass immigration (putting an end to it) a major campaign issue. Living as we do in a time of dwindling resources, overpopulation, job scarcity, and cultural balkanization, it makes so much sense. No other candidate touches it, but large numbers of Americans are deeply uneasy about the constant influx of foreigners into our homeland.. Ron Paul could really have distinguished himself. Perhaps he still can.
And opposition to the ongoing invasion of our own country also works hand-in-glove, philosophically and pragmatically, with Ron Paul's anti-empire, anti-war positions. Bring the troops home and use them to seal our border from illegal infiltrators.
marty
March 13th, 2012 at 9:25 pm
Good article Justin. I hope that Paul runs third party. The Libertarian Party makes sense because it's the simplest.
I would like to see him make a bold move like nominate an antiwar, anti global trade, anti fed, anti Patriot Act progressive. Kucinich comes to mind and he's out of a job. Stick to those issues and hold the dismantling of the nanny state until the next election.
We need to stop the wars NOW, stop sending jobs overseas now, and reign in the fed now.
Lungshot505
March 13th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
A Paul/Johnson ticket would be formidable. The Libertarian Party is on all 50 state ballots and Johnson is polling @ 10% which is a great start.
Johnny in Wi.
March 13th, 2012 at 9:50 pm
Great esssay Justin: It is like my thinking on the subject. However I like the idea of going with the Constitution party. I think that Ron has used the Constitution as his bell weather. The Libertarian Party has a just got too much social liberalism for my cup of tea. It is doubtful any third party can win. I like the idea of Johnson with the Libertarians. Kuccinich with the Greens. And of course Ron with the Constitution Party. I think we could really have a lot of good ideas going around. I think with all those choices Ron would stand out as the best one out there. The wars would get a lot of discussion as would other ideas as well. Obama and Romney would be beside themselves trying to figure out what to say.
james
March 13th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
I really wonder sometimes about the intelligence of people like you JBeale. We are facing WW3 and you mutter about stupid immigration. Put it in your thick skull, a lot of this immigration will stop as soon as you stop meddling in other peoples affairs.
It surprises me sometimes the petty level some people scoop down to.
MoT
March 13th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
I did something I thought I'd never do again, as a "recovering" Republican, and that was register as one just so I could cast a ballot for Paul during the caucuses. The hooting and hollering warmongers in the crowd, who cheered for Romney and Santorum, were disgusting. They even made veiled threats about Iran. I thought I'd stepped off onto an alien planet. The governor, Romneys stand in hairdo for this sick circus, said absolutely nothing about anything that meant a damn thing. It was totally devoid of any substance and that wasn't even meant to be a joke. The truly gut wrenching moment was when our local congresscritter asked that we put aside our differences, anyone who had supported a loser, and back the winner of the event so Obama would not be reelected! As if..!!!! To select Romney was and is nothing more than a choice between Bush 3 or Bush 4. To hell with them both. It was a depressing spectacle and I'm not voting in November for what the GOP has preselected. They can all burn in hell. One thing was clear…. Romney could barely get a sliver over fifty percent of his own party and that alone should tell you something.
JBeale
March 13th, 2012 at 10:09 pm
We are facing "WW3" primarily because elements in this country haven't fully assimilated into the American nation and instead privilege, in their voting, discourse, and campaign funding, the colonization of Palestine by a FOREIGN nation. That phenomenon is the same reason we "faced" 9/11 and other acts of violence and threats of violence.
Assimilation is swamped and Americans have lost control of their government. There is a high probability the situation will only get worse, because the rate of influx and factionalism far exceeds the capacity of the system to assimilate. If you want to change your foreign policy you need to first regain control of your government. That can start with limiting the presence of people with loyalties to foreign nations.
Jeff Albertson
March 13th, 2012 at 10:18 pm
Justin – exactly right! If Ron jumps ship sooner than later, Gingrich and Santorum can chew up Romney, and maybe throw the nomination to Santorum. My dog could beat Santorum in the general election.
Marty -yes – I thought of Kucinich as VP right after he got hosed by the Dems. (Johnson's OK with me, but he wouldn't bring in any progressives. Plus he'd make Ron look taller.) Nice of the Dems to free up the talent and show their true colors. Nice of the Repubs to cement their place in history next to the Whigs.
JBeale
March 13th, 2012 at 10:19 pm
Furthermore, if being a hawk on the illegal infiltration of our homeland, on the absurdity of birthright citizenship, and on the insanity of mass legal in-migration (2 million visas issued to foreign workers per year when 20-40 million Americans can't find decent jobs) can get Ron Paul elected, who are you to complain? He would then be in a position to change the course of our foreign policy. Isn't that what you want?
Oddly, you completely ignored that point.
wrdalton
March 13th, 2012 at 10:44 pm
My hopes that Ron Paul will enter the Tampa convention with sufficient delegate strength to put him in the position of "king-maker", at least with the ability to put Mitt Romney over the top, are now dwindling. But if that should be the case, I would not belittle the opportunity this may give the champions of liberty. If the price to Mitt Romney of getting the nomination is selecting Santorum, Gingrich or Rand Paul as his running mate, my judgment is that he would select Rand Paul. And, no, the convention, at least the Romney and Paul delegates would not rebel. One of two things will happen: 1) the Romney/Paul ticket will be victorious, giving the new Vice President the same opportunity to use his office to steer GOP policy during his term in office as was enjoyed by Dan Quayle and Dick Cheney, the results of which are still (unfortunately) being felt. If Romney succeeds through two terms, Rand Paul will, if tradition holds (1960 & 1988), be the succeeding GOP presidential nominee; 2) Obama will win reelection, but Rand Paul, with his father campaigning on his, not Romney's behalf, will bring enough young and antiwar voters into the GOP fold that Rand will be an immediate player, even the favorite for the 2016 nomination.
Strangely, perhaps, either outcome may be more promising than that objective with which this campaign began – Ron Paul winning the nomination at the Tampa convention. If that were to be the case, one can almost guarantee that the War Party among Republicans and Democrats alike will unite to sabotage Ron Paul's fall campaign, ending with a debacle as bad as Barry Goldwater's in 1964. If one thing this primary campaign has shown it is that the American people are not yet ready to reject the welfare/warfare state. Like a drunk on a bender, we can't reach the point of reformation until we hit rock bottom, and we aren't there yet. And if Ron Paul is the GOP nominee this year and loses in a landslide it will set back the movement another generation. Another four years of Obama, however, may bring America close enough to the collapse the Pauls have long predicted that the nation may then, in fact, be ready to embrace their preaching.
wrdalton
March 13th, 2012 at 10:51 pm
Oh, and the other price I would exact for Ron Paul's delegates is that the GOP nominee name Ron Paul to succeed Ben Bernanke as Chair of the FED. He could never work in Romney's cabinet, but putting him in the position of heading the Board of the Federal Reserve System, with authority independent of that of the President and Congress, would be the equivalent of putting Anthony Napolitano on the Supreme Court. And don't you think that is where Dr. Paul really wants to be?
Strider55
March 13th, 2012 at 11:11 pm
Kucinich has excellent antiwar credentials, but on all other issues he's a big-government pimp. As I said here a few weeks ago, Judge Andrew Napolitano (also out of a job) is the ideal VP pick. Pat Buchanan would be a good 2nd choice.
xcz
March 13th, 2012 at 11:25 pm
Ron Paul is a man of the people, is he not? Why not make him an offer he can't refuse – start a non-partisan petition to urge him to run 3rd party. if enough people sign, maybe he'd listen.
keltrava
March 14th, 2012 at 12:04 am
Might be a fantasy dream but a winning ticket would be Al Gore/ Ron Paul.
This would allow Al Gore to come in under the steam generated by Ron Paul.
In turn this would coral the dissafected old Obama voters. An absolutely certainty to win but only Al Gore for president and Ron Paul vice president.
Curious
March 14th, 2012 at 12:05 am
I don't think Ron Paul is going to get anything out of the convention except the satisfaction of not supporting the nominee. Then watch the GOP feel the sting when Obama is reelected.
There are white racist that voted for Obama but they really wanted Hillary. They did so because he is a Democrat. There are generational Republicans and Democrats. These fools are the main ones that vote. Ron Paul supporters are facing evil incarnate when they go deal with the GOP. I don't see why they should give up. The only alternative goes against the Libertarian maxim. The Fabians worked slowly and deliberately. They remade the West in their image along with the corporations. Perhaps the wrong method is being used. There needs to be infiltration of these parties. Intelligence gathering needs to be done to find weaknesses. Befriend an evil human being and maybe find out something illegal or immoral that will bring them down. A shadow people's party that carefully picks candidates which can pass scrutiny through the two major parties is the only way. They have to let the trojan horses through their defenses as if they were one of their own.
e-America, rise up !
March 14th, 2012 at 1:41 am
Hoping for a Ron Paul GOP nomination, else a 3rd party.
Now, knowing the probability that the Presidency may end up to be decided as the lesser of two evils (Mitt or whoever who isn't Paul, vs Barack), one alternative could be to create a virtual USA, on the internet. If Ron Paul is not the next president, then this must be done.
A new way to get peoples participation.
What if -and this is just virtual, until too popular to ignore- there was a way to remake America ?
Create a virtual America in which the People get to vote, frequently, to rethink ALL institutions and to remodel the whole country, away from the Establishments.
A way to dismiss all these clowns, to go around them and show the whole world there is another America out there, organizing.
Such an idea has to do away with existing patterns, affiliations, same old same old and short circuit the whole unchangeable DC.
Think outside the box, destroy that box, that prison, that strait jacket.
“If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it” A. Einstein
WhichWaldenPond
March 14th, 2012 at 3:23 am
Good reasoning and good argument. I have decided that I will vote for Ron Paul in November. As the Republican candidate, or as the Libertarian candidate, or as the independent candidate. If Ron Paul's name is not on my ballot, then I will write in "Ron Paul". I will not vote Romney for President, even if he has a Ron or Rand Paul as VP. Never. I have two issues that I will vote for: #1) demilitarization of the USA, and #2) return to Constitutional government and rule-of-law. I also worry about, and have opinions about, currency, unemployment, environment, human rights, Israel, nuclear power, etc., etc. But none of those concerns can be seriously considered until #1 and #2 are resolved.
spider
March 14th, 2012 at 3:41 am
I supported Ron Paul in 2008, and continue to support him this time around. I was disappointed that he did not make a third party try in 2008, but he was not as well organized then. So now it's time for a decision and I will continue my support,as will so many others, if he decides to do the right thing: go the third party route– not just to keep his platform alive, but to have a real chance to win, remembering that the Republican Party's other candidates cannot win and the possibility of Paul winning as a third party candidate is not just a pipe dream. Only he can draw a significant number of independents as well as disaffected Democrats and Republicans. If we're in for a dime we must be in for a dollar; otherwise Dr Paul should, quite frankly, stop wasting his time and ours.
Cynical in New York
March 14th, 2012 at 3:46 am
You counter Kucinich's socialist big government by replacing him with big government paleocon Buchanan? That makes no sense, Gary Johnson would've been a good choice if he had stayed with the Republicans. Jeff Flake would be a good option at this point
Cynical in New York
March 14th, 2012 at 3:50 am
You need to realize James that for paleocons, immigration and racial nationalism is their obsession just like how taxing the rich are an obsession of liberals. Your best bet is to let them squawk their crap and move on.
Cynical in New York
March 14th, 2012 at 3:59 am
Could a third party be an option? Maybe but what about ballot access and what not if Dr. Paul was to go the third party route would he have enough time to get on the ballot of all fifty states? I would rather see Paul run as an Independent than in the LP. With Wayne Allen Root as it's spokesman, Root wants the LP to become more conservative-lite than libertarian as his demonstration in wanting cons to give him pats on the head, instead of taking them head on like LewRockwell.com does. The Constitution party is full of theocons and paleocons who are just as much of big thugerment supporters as their neocon counterparts but just want to change the groups of people they want the state's guns on.
Johnny in Wi.
March 14th, 2012 at 4:29 am
I read right here, Ron Paul saying the first thing he turns to every morning is Antiwar.com. So I hope he gives it serious consideration. The least that a 3rd party campaign would accomplish is to keep the issues he loves alive for next election. It would also be a great chance to continue his educational work among the young and impressionable.
Attack the System » Blog Archive » Ron Paul’s Hour of Decision
March 14th, 2012 at 5:13 am
[...] Article by Justin Raimondo. [...]
RyanSmurfy
March 14th, 2012 at 5:18 am
If Ron Paul is to run outside the two-party system, he should temper his libertarianism and reach out to the Eisenhower right and Nader left and run on an antiwar, anti-Fed, anti-corporate capitalism, pro peace-time economy, pro civil liberties and pro Constitution platform. The coalition should put aside cultural and less important Issues that would divide it. Instead, the coalition should propose a return to a Constitutional government — one where Congress, not the Supreme Court, legislates — to debate and vote upon these divisive issues. To get on the ballot in all 50 states, Paul and his vice-president will most likely need the Libertarian nomination, minus its divisive ideology, until the troops and the US Constitution come home.
@tmccoy_25
March 14th, 2012 at 5:48 am
FROM: http://lewrockwell.com/burris/burris20.1.html
"The American electoral system is organized into fifty-two different sets of election laws (the federal laws and those of the 50 states and Guam). Each jurisdiction has entirely different ballot petition requirements for third party and independent presidential candidates.
These requirements are onerous, unduly burdensome, and chilling in their effect of squashing voters choosing candidates other than the Democrats and Republicans who draft and vigorously enforce these laws to protect their duopoly. I have been a litigant to several legal challenges to these restrictive laws at the state and federal level, some cases reaching the United States Supreme Court.
Dr. Paul further knows that the vast majority of campaign funds raised in such efforts must be expended, not in advertisements or campaign promotion of ideas, but on petition campaigns and ballot litigation suits. The administrative overhead and manpower requirements of enlisting squads of reputable professional petitioners (‘Road Warriors") in all fifty states and in every major (and minor) metropolitan area is beyond the organizational imaginations of most Paul supporters who see only the good doctor and his noble ideas. No successful ballot petition campaign relies entirely on volunteers, which is counter-intuitive to virtually all efforts of the Ron Paul Revolution.
Finally, Ron Paul knows firsthand that such challengers are frozen out of the televised presidential debates and interviews on the mainstream network news and talk shows and delegated to the shadows."
John V. Walsh
March 14th, 2012 at 5:50 am
Dwindling resources?
You sound like the most Mathusian of the Greens.
The Malthusians have ALWAYS been wrong.
John V. Walsh
March 14th, 2012 at 5:52 am
Gary Johnson would be a good choice IF he were not so slavishly pro-Israel.
musings
March 14th, 2012 at 5:54 am
Birthright citizenship is a rational thing. A person is tabula rasa at birth. Everything he takes in by his senses makes him what he is. If he is born in America and lives here that is who he is. In the case of immigrant parents from often deprived backgrounds, this is going to make a huge difference in acquiring your identity. Whatever the parents' legal status, it does not affect the ability of the child to absorb his environment, unless of course you put a lot of bureaucratic obstacles in the way.
What I see here is the anger that people aren't assimilating fast enough for you or they are bringing a worldview you dislike. You really don't want them to make it all legal with the government, you just don't want them here. I might say the same about red state evangelicals when they show up in a place like New England, but I don't. Because for all intents and purposes they are even more alien than the Mexican gardeners who come here, in that their hostility to my way of life is profound and well-schooled. But they are the ones with all the panoply of legal rights.
John V. Walsh
March 14th, 2012 at 5:56 am
Rand Paul is not Ron Paul.
He voted for sanctions on Iran – a prelude to war.
And I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that he has voted for the DoD war budget every time.
John V. Walsh
March 14th, 2012 at 5:58 am
Al Gore is a hawk who supported war in the Balkans.
And he is at the far fringe of the global warming alarmists.
musings
March 14th, 2012 at 6:01 am
I love the Ron Paul/Dennis Kucinich ticket and would definitely vote for it. Neither one of them has that Hollywood hair or $1500+ suit, but think of their incredible appeal to the disaffected. They were antiwar from the beginning. They foresaw the ugly situations into which an attitude of American supremacy has plunged us.
We need real change and to start on a new path. I think they would be trail blazers, and they would know that they are simply leading the way for the rest of us to develop. It isn't about them as icons, it is about allowing us to get on with our lives unmolested by the sinister thing our government has become.
musings
March 14th, 2012 at 6:05 am
Why don't you put together your dream team – I love the two you named.
John V. Walsh
March 14th, 2012 at 6:12 am
Justin's piece is the most intelligent piece on this topic yet.
It is not marred by the flaws in such discussions in the MSM and among "pwogwessives."
The former wish only to discredit Paul and take the wind out of the sails of the libertarian movement. The latter are embarrassed that they did not run (did not want to and could not) a challenge to Obomba or even come up with a credible third party candidate. (Rocky Anderson is dyed in the wool "humanitarian" interventionist and Jill Stein has never been able to win even a local election and is all too close to the Malthusian global warming alarmists).
ONE QUESTION. Why cannot Ron Paul get the Libertarian nomination and proceed to the Republican convention to win or come as close as possible. In the most likely scenario, he would end up running as a very well known Libertarian by virtue of his campaign this last year. (He will get more attention at the Republican Convention.) In the less likely scenario he would run as the candidate of both Libertarian and Republican parties.
musings
March 14th, 2012 at 6:15 am
A virtual USA — kind of neat.
Maybe that's where we're going anyway. You chuck the Encyclopedia Britannica's and go digital.
But in the long run, the rubber has to hit the road, and government is about force. Unless you can counter it and protect yourself from it —
Virtual government is what the Enlightenment was. In that sense it grew until it took down the actual powers, the monarchies and the empires, and replaced them with a new system. Before the Constitution, there was the Republic of Letters. If you don't have the ideas, you don't get real change.
All those Republican debates were like the Holy Roman Empire – none of the above. They were moving around received concepts of American supremacy and religious dogma, they were not clearing the air and addressing peoples' real problems. As such they were simply ritual without meaning and a reformation was in order. That is not what a virtual government would do – it would take on everything that needed taking on, much as we do here.
richard vajs
March 14th, 2012 at 6:30 am
I voted for Ron Paul in 1988 and would vote for him again, except that I know that things have changed fundamentally in the last 24 years:
1. We have the Evangelical movement which has infested politics, driving out rational thought.
2. We are much poorer and infinitely more corrupt; all hope for a just society in our future is (or should be) gone by now.
3. The World has moved on – we are the deadenders of rapacious capitalism and imperialism.
Our corporate, militaristic, "exceptional" America is in its decay; I see no reasons for heroic efforts to save something that is so clearly dying. Especially as it is dying from self-administered poisoning.
Now is the time to look much further ahead than this upcoming election.
carroll price
March 14th, 2012 at 6:51 am
President: Ron Paul
Vice President: Judge Napolitano
Secretary of State: Bernie Sanders
Attorney General: Dennis Kucinich
Secretary of Defense: Patrick Buchanan
Secretary of the Treasury: Paul Craig Roberts
F.A. Hayek Fan
March 14th, 2012 at 6:57 am
This quote from one of the political forums I read sums up my feelings exactly: "I don't vote for war mongering, police state-loving, big government leftist politicians therefore it's Ron Paul or a third party."
The GOP's goose is cooked. They might as well get used to having Obama for another four years. They absolutely cannot win without Dr Paul's voters and very few of his voters are going to vote for the GOP without him leading the ticket.
Truth be told, the average GOP voter has more in common with Obama that they do Ron Paul. Most of them are so blood thirsty and militaristic that they would rather have Obama than Dr. Paul because Obama is sure to continue our war of terror against those who can't fight back, starting with an invasion of Iran as soon as the election is over. He is also sure to increase the infrastructure of the police state, another issue which GOP voters champion.
rgvaliant
March 14th, 2012 at 7:09 am
Resources always grow. If God had meant there to be any limits, he wouldn't have made sex and 1 ton pickups so enjoyable. The Heavenly Host will cry tears of petroleum before humanity has to think about living within any limits.
George
March 14th, 2012 at 7:23 am
As a frustrated Ron Paul supporter for two election cycles, I am sympathetic with many of the points made here, but I think this argument is four years too late. Too much effort has already been invested in building a libertarian movement in the Republican party to radically change course now, and it ignores important very developments and trends in the Republican party like the rise of the quasi-libertarian Tea Party movement and the growing Republican challenges to interventions in places like Libya and now Afghanistan (both Gingrich and Santorum have indicated in recent days we should get out). Transforming the party won't happen overnight, but grassroot activists are moving into the Republican party apparatus. For instance, the head of the Iowa Republican party is now a Ron Paul support. Clark county in Nevada was just taken over by Ron Paul supporters. Ron Paul Republicans/libertarians like Karen Kwiatowski are running for political office. I am not sure how everything will play out–will Ron Paul support Mitt Romney, or, God forbid, Rick Santorum?–but I don't see Dr. Paul has anything to really gain by burn bridges with the Republican party on a foolhardy third party run (Justin Raimondo knows better than anybody how rigged the system is against third party candidates. The Libertarian Party for example has been around since the 1970's and it has NEVER gotten more than 1% of the vote). I also think Rand Paul has an excellent future as a Presidential candidate in 2016, and I think he will be on possible VP lists for Romney as he would energize Tea Party and Ron Paul supporters, bringing much excitement to a ticket that probably would otherwise pretty dull.
George
March 14th, 2012 at 7:38 am
You lay out an interesting scenario. The Libertarian Party I am sure would be fine with that arrangement because it would get them enormous attention and possibly the Presidency if the Republicans were also to nominate Paul. However, in practice, the Republican party establishment would fight that like crazy because they don't want to create real competition from the Libertarian Party. This is why to some degree the Republican establishment is willing to tolerate the Ron Paul people–they want the votes and they want to avoid the competition from Ron Paul going outside the party.
zioctopus
March 14th, 2012 at 7:42 am
Concerning the Future of the Movement:
Ron Paul absolutely must either run as Libertarian or create a New third party
for Liberty in this country. When his career is over, the people who supported it
need a permanent home. It is the creation of this permanent home and base
which is lacking. Now is the time to set it in motion, within the next month or
no later than May !! For the Future !! The Presidency will come. First things First !!
Concerning a Running Mate:
1) Gary Johnson would be a poor choice. He alienates the Old Right and traditionalists
with his pro-choice position. Ron Paul is not pro-choice as that is in our current laws.
He also lacks seriousness and, in my opinion, character.
2) Jesse Ventura would be a better choice. He can energize the younger vote, while still
comforting the older vote by his record as Governor of Minnesota.
Experienced
March 14th, 2012 at 7:43 am
If you've ever worked a third party campaign, you would know that the voting majority would consider a Communist from a monopoly party over Jesus on a third party. Dr. Paul has NOT lost. Third Party would guarantee a loss for Dr. Paul. This year it would be better to finish what has been started and fix the Republican Party as much as possible.
George
March 14th, 2012 at 8:02 am
To get an idea what Paul would be up against, just consider how lopsided the relative funding of the campaigns will be. Obama will have a billion dollars and the liberal media to get his message out. The Republican nominee will have less money than Obama, but still it will be many hundreds of millions of dollars and all the conservative media assets. Ron Paul relies on a base of small donors who cannot even begin to approach a fraction of those sums of money and they might not even approve of his third party run. And the media is blacking him out now, what do you think it will be like if he runs third party? I don't see that it is a lock that he gets media coverage or in the debates. Plus he will get blamed like Nader did if the Republican nominee loses. Too much to lose in the third party scenario, especially when things are going well working within the Republican party.
jeff_davis
March 14th, 2012 at 8:09 am
Ours (the US) is a country of immigrants. From the Pilgrims to the African slaves to the Cubans and the Mexicans (Those you refer to coyly as "illegal infiltrators" to "our homeland"). All from foreign lands, and all by different means, these folks have come here to make a new home. On that basis, your not-really-concealed bigotry, and your selfish desire to close the door once you've got your piece of "yearning to breathe free", is dishonorable.
The Mexicans are our neighbors and friends. they come here to work for a better life for themselves and their families. Like all who came before. In doing so, they exemplify the very best of American values. They are the heart and soul of this country. They are more "American" than you. Learn from them, lest It be to your everlasting shame that in your meanness and smallness you betray what this country was built on and what makes it great.
jeff_davis
March 14th, 2012 at 8:48 am
"…elements in this country haven't fully assimilated into the American nation and instead privilege, in their voting, discourse, and campaign funding, the colonization of Palestine by a FOREIGN nation."
Oy-f*cking-vey! The J*ws? You're talking about the J*ws? The J*ws have thoroughly and completely assimilated into "the American nation". Hell, the American Dream is the J*ewish dream, and the American Jewish community has done much of the heavy lifting in building the country AND the dream. (Hollywood built the American Dream, and the J*ws built Hollywood.) America ***IS*** the promised land.
But…
I am a Jew, and am myself disgusted that the American Jewish community has been hoodwinked into thinking that Zionism is a good thing rather than the Judaism-destroying criminality that it is. In that regard the Zionist criminals have hoodwinked, propagandized, bribed, threatened, and subverted the US and much of the first world, to the everlasting shame — and mortal danger — of the Zionist-supporting worldwide Jewish community.
Clearly a major f*ck-up on the part of the J*ws, the latest in their five-thousand year quest for suicide-by-goy. It seems they never learn.
But you're still an assh*le.
Generalissimo X
March 14th, 2012 at 9:05 am
al gore and manbearpig? put down the crack pipe and back away from the computer.
jeff_davis
March 14th, 2012 at 9:24 am
The Americans Elect undertaking has Ron Paul in the lead for the Presidential nomination. Since the AE program calls for a mixed ticket — R/D — Kucinich would fit right in (I like Napolitano, too, but Kucinich would likely pull in more Democrat voters). And remember, Kucinich as VP doesn't have executive power, he's just a back-up "quarterback".
jeff_davis
March 14th, 2012 at 9:43 am
All true,…until it isn't.
carroll price
March 14th, 2012 at 9:44 am
If Ron Paul is not on the ticket, I will not bother voting. I will never again vote for Republican, because the Republican party has become the tool and mouthpiece of neocons, and more cynical and corrupt than the Democrats ever were.
Curious
March 14th, 2012 at 9:44 am
I agree! Dennis Kucinich is out of Congress. He will need a job next year. A unity ticket would be interesting with him or Nader with Ron Paul.
I agree with the Libertarians on many things but they eat their own. Some of them need to be treated for OCPD. What is needed is a unity party on the platform that you mentioned! If only the Libertarian Party would be willing to be such a vehicle. Ideological purity or regime change? There won't be a village idiot vote like their would be in the Republican and Democrat party. The difference has to be made up somehow.
Treg
March 14th, 2012 at 9:54 am
I do like and admire Justin's writing. I read his writing all the time. But today he wrote a piece that says its decision time for the Paul campaign. No it is not "decision time". Justin is just plain wrong for all these reasons here http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or…
We in the R3VOLution have made the decision. There is NO TURNING BACK. We are going inside the two party duopoly to gain access to the voter database and access to the national stage. Moreover, the long term gain is none other than taking over all the key positions inside the GOP and hopefully soon, the DNC.
As far as the election in 2012, if it goes "badly" then lets look at what we gain. Another Convention of our own! Yea! Further we will have thousand and thousands of republicans moving up the real GOP elected official ranks, inside the party apparatchik. Come Napolitano2016, we are Ready. Come Rand 2016 we are Ready. We are learning more than our opponents will ever know. We are growing and we are not taking the R (or D) label off.
No Justin, we have learned from what I wrote above and learned from watching other 3rd party also runs flounder, for the very reasons you know so well. So CATCH the vision of the insider take over. History is repeat with THAT Success.
Treg
JBeale
March 14th, 2012 at 10:02 am
Mexicans take job opportunities from Americans and depress working class wages. Ever heard of supply and demand?
As an American, my sense of duty (my "honor") runs first to the best interests of thepeople whose generosity gave me opportunity in this country. In other words, my duty is to Americans not to aliens.
JBeale
March 14th, 2012 at 10:03 am
It doesn't make sense to reward law breaking with the gift of U.S. citizenship.
Treg
March 14th, 2012 at 10:06 am
I do like and admire Justin's writing. I read his writing all the time. But today he wrote a piece that says its decision time for the Paul campaign. No it is not "decision time". Justin is just plain wrong for all these reasons here http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or…
JBeale
March 14th, 2012 at 10:06 am
Someone who has thoroughly assimilated into the American nation doesn't put the perverted interests of a foreign entity ahead of the safety of Americans.
mhstahl
March 14th, 2012 at 10:46 am
If you have opportunity….what are you complaining about?
Also, why in the $%^# do you think you, or the horrid government, have any business telling ME who I can hire, who I can rent to, who I can associate with, who I can sell a house to, who I can buy food from, and who I can #$%@?
Immigrants, no matter their legal status, are engaged in voluntary economic and social exchange-how dare you demand that government intervene to avoid "depressing" your wages-or whatever other racist invention you'll use today-and call yourself an American-. This is supposed to be a place for freedom, you are a disgrace.
Ron Paul: Now what?
March 14th, 2012 at 11:03 am
[...] [...]
JBeale
March 14th, 2012 at 11:11 am
"If you have opportunity….what are you complaining about?"
I see what is going on and how massive in-migration is being forced on Americans against their will and is hurting them. An aspect of being a member of a community is giving some deference to the common good and not selfishly pursuing money at others' expense all the time.
"Also, why in the $%^# do you think you, or the horrid government, have any business telling ME who I can hire, who I can rent to, who I can associate with, who I can sell a house to, who I can buy food from, and who I can #$%@?"
Because the laws of the American community (and by extension the government) by creating the concept of property rights and assigning those rights make it possible for you to have something to rent and something to sell.
"Immigrants, no matter their legal status, are engaged in voluntary economic and social exchange."
Wrong. It is not voluntary. It violates the consent of the American people.
Guest
March 14th, 2012 at 11:14 am
The person who gets citizenship did not break the law. It is not illegal to be born. We should not have a hereditary underclass of non-citizens.
EHor
March 14th, 2012 at 11:15 am
Treg,
you're dreaming!
liberranter
March 14th, 2012 at 11:23 am
[T]he most likely vehicle for a Paul third party run, the Libertarian Party, holds its nominating convention at the beginning of May…[i]t seems likely the LP nomination is Paul’s if he seeks it…
Nope, sorry, but I seriously doubt that. This Koch Brothers-owned subsidiary is, after all, the same pseudo-libertarian outfit that nominated ueber-drug warrior BOB BARR as its 2008 candidate, FCFS! If it runs a blatant fraud like that as the face of libertarianism in a critical national election, how can it be trusted to do so in the future (as an aside, Dr. Paul is well aware of what a toothless sham the NLP is, which is why he has affiliated himself with it in the recent past).
All of the above aside, I find it absolutely and inexcusably juvenile that the regular readers of this blog, who have had more than a century of evidence from which to learn what Amerikan "elections" really are, would think that Ron Paul has a snowball's chance in the Arabian Desert of ever seeing the White House as anything other than a visiting congressional supplicant.
C'mon on now, folks. Wake up and engage your cerebra on this one! Since ALL Amerikan presidential elections within living memory have been carefully scripted political kabuki theater, as rigged as an Atlantic City slot machine, what on earth makes any of you think that just because the first principled candidate in generations is running for president that this system is going to magically transmogrify into an honestly brokered contest? If the flagrant shenanigans that have taken place during the primaries and caucuses over the last few months haven't been all the example you need to prove this point, I don't know what else will. If you really think that the Reigning Establishment, which has no doubt already decided who is going to occupy the Toy Throne for another four years, is going to allow the popular will to prevail and let someone like Ron Paul ascend to the presidency, someone who is not one of their bought-and-paid-for stooges, then I reiterate my offer of beachfront property in Cheyenne, Wyoming (you no doubt already own the Brooklyn Bridge) at a bargain price.
Now can we shift the subject of discussion to something anti-war-germane over which we (including Ron Paul) actually have some degree of control? This discussion is just plain pointless.
David
March 14th, 2012 at 11:26 am
Me too.
Don
March 14th, 2012 at 11:31 am
Play a mind game. Assuming that Ron Paul wins the election…not impossible, but unlikely. Where is his Congressonal support? iHe needs support in Congress to get anything done. With the power of entities like AIPAC driving them, his only power would come as commander-in-chief of the military. Maybe that's enough.
Hmmm. Should We Wait for the Big Collapse? Or Perhaps Just Enjoy Our Right to Live Freely, and Ignore the State » Scott Lazarowitz's Blog
March 14th, 2012 at 11:39 am
[...] a thoroughly statist and fascist Congress who will override Paul’s vetoes, etc.). However, Justin Raimondo has this article today encouraging Ron Paul to go third party. Now THAT I like. That would REALLY send a message to the [...]
JBeale
March 14th, 2012 at 11:41 am
I see no reason to give someone born to foreign parents the gift of U.S. citizenship simply because the person happens to be born in the United States. That would be to reward lawbreaking or game playing. And it is to award rights in our community in situations where there is a high probability the person who exercises those rights will have loyalties to a foreign nation. That's a risk we don't need to take.
Whether we have a hereditary underclass of non-citizens depends not on that but on enforcement of our immigration laws. You can deport non-citizens (or have them self-deport) if you don't want a class of non-citizens here.
xcz
March 14th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
never wrestle a wrestler, never box a boxer and never try to out-sleaze a sleazeball.
andy
March 14th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
An unrealistic assessment that fails to address any of JBeale views, James.
andy
March 14th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
Birthright citizenship is not "rational" or fair at all. Many countries don't allow it.
andy
March 14th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
No but quite possiby their parents did.
andy
March 14th, 2012 at 12:09 pm
Immigration is a privilege, not a "right". There is nothing "dishonorable" about questioning our most ill-advised immigration of the last several decades.
ANU News.net Ron Paul’s Hour of Decision
March 14th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
[...] The growth and development of the Paulian movement has now reached its limits within the confines of the GOP, like a potted plant whose roots can no longer be contained. Either the plant is put in the ground, or its roots will become so stunted that the plant will wither and die. In short, the Paulians must make a decision: either break free of the bonds of the GOP, or else face a future of dwindling political fortunes. http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/03/13/ron-pauls-hour-of-decision/ [...]
Rusty
March 14th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
JBeale, It is not even worth your effort to explain your point of view. And really I don't even know why people from the right even waste their time here anymore. Just reading the comments to each of these articles is proof there is no way there can ever be an alliance between the antiwar Left and the non-interventionist Right.
I do, however, like Justin Raimondo. I imagine the guy has to share some of our views because he always mentions the Old Right, The America First Movement and guys like Senator Taft. He also seems to be a man who respects and reveres the US Constitution and the ideology that gave birth to it.
On the other hand I doubt many of the commenters who come from a more leftwing perspective, the guys who write America as 'Amerika', would hold such high opinions of Senator Taft and the America First guys. To them those guys would probably be racists who just did not want to lift a finger to help others in need.
There is nothing wrong with that. I believe each is entitled to to life, liberty and the rest of the ball of wax so long as they do not interfere with someone else's right to the same. But the bottom line is there is too large of a divide between non-interventionists and antiwar types to ever think about building any effective coalition.
Take solace in the fact that Justin is probably somewhat sympatico to your views. But as far as changing others, there is not enough space in these comment windows to even begin.
Rusty
March 14th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
How exactly is Pat Buchanan a big government paleocon? I thought Pat agreed with Ron about closing American bases overseas, getting out of NATO and ending worthless wars. So it would appear that Pat would gut the Pentagon's budget like Ron.
I thought Pat was against welfare and other wealth transfer programs. So it would appear that he'd probably cut those as well. I thought Pat was for abolishing many cabinet departments like Education.
I don't see how Pat is a big government guy.
Treg
March 14th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Not dreaming EHor, its happening before your very eyes. If you have been around involved inside the GOP, you'd know this. Indeed, in 2007/8 we gained access to their voter database and we gained access to their national debate state. No Libertarian has ever stood on it. The next libertarians to stand on the GOP national debate stage will be RAND PAUL and/or Judge Andrew Napolitano in 2016. Not dreaming EHor, but those who keep pining for a 3rd party run certainly are.
Jim V
March 14th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
You beat me to it. I was going to suggest that a Chairmanship of the Federal Reserve would be very interesting. War is one of Ron Paul's main issues, but the Federal Reserve is another. Imagine Ron Paul in change of the Fed. He would be able to audit and release the results. There would be no more secrecy whcih would curtail many of its bad activities. Perhaps he could even work towards ending it.
Treg
March 14th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
For those that don't know it or realize it….. The R3VOLution is a re-branding of liberty inside the 2-party duopoly.
What do we gain by going inside the GOP and DNC?
1) Access to their national database of voters. We can target market our liberty message and pick off voters at the MARGINS. Austrians should appreciate this. Libertarians and libertarian leaning voters can be identified and mobilized to vote. Paul's two presidential campaigns has proved this point over and over again.
2) Access to their National Debate STAGE. This is priceless. As you can see Ron Paul's access to this National Debate Stage conveys the all important credibility factor that one will never ever get running 3rd party. Gary Johnson failed to get on their National Debate Stage more than once. Failing at number 1) was his problem, polled at less than 2%. The PRIVATE CLUB which is the GOP and DNC are tied into the MSM and the Military Congressional Banking Complex. This private club made the mistake of allowing Ross Perot on the National Debate Stage, they did not make it again with Ralph Nader. They have complete control over this National "legitimacy" Stage, having taken it away from the league of woman voters long ago. The Green Party or the Libertarian Party or the Constitutionalists Party or the Socialist Party — all true competitors to the 2 party duopoly — will NEVER allow them onto THEIR National Debate Stage. If you understand competition and business, then you know why this is: Its simply NOT in their self-interest to do so.
3) The R3VOLution is not as doctrinaire or "pure" as libertarians would like, but neither is it without ideals and goals. Moreover, its loaded with strategy and activists who are working their way deep inside the GOP and (soon, the DNC). If you are not doing this, then you are simply another bystander, an observer, and despite your passion for Liberty you are NOT inside the R3VOLution itself. The R3VOLution is all about re-branding LIBERTY inside the 2-party duopoly.
4) Democrats and Republicans are for the most part "born". They are born into it. They grow up inside liberal or conservative families. The D or R label is a part of them, who they are. Here you are dealing with a person's self identity. That means, its nearly impossible and certainly rare that people rip the D or R label off, to wear another label.
5) Political policy positions are fluid, more fluid than changing the D or R label on your chest. If you have not noticed that, start paying attention. Read the essay link, and start selling the utopian vision of Liberty, something that is sorely missing in the libertarian movement.
Treg
Treg
March 14th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
Clever and funny Mr Liberranter! Please read my essay here and respond. "For those that don't know it or realize it….. The R3VOLution is a re-branding of liberty inside the 2-party duopoly." http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or…
peterike
March 14th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
"The Mexicans are our neighbors and friends."
Wow. Stupidest statement in the history of the internet. We have a winner!
Treg
March 14th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
I disagree. The R3VOLution was started here in Phoenix when we realized what we would gain if we rebranded Liberty INSIDE the 2-Party Duopoly.
1) access to their National database, thus we could grow our numbers gaining voters at the margin and those special issue voters (gun rights) (abortion) etc.
2) Access to their National Debate Stage.
Its working. We are far from done yet. The wide swath that we have created opened up 2016 to Judge Andrew Napolitano and Rand Paul in 2016. Justin writes that we have reached our limit. No we have not reached out limit, we are just getting started! We have doubled and tripled our numbers since 2008. Opinion surveys tell us that we could get even MORE GOP voters then we are getting with Dr Paul. Looks, charm, height, voice, personality and Age are all real factors that goes into a voters choice, Romney and Santorum "look like a president" is just as big a "voter hurdle" as is understanding that raising the minimum wage adds to unemployment or that the Drug War is foolish. Thus, the "right candidate" is still out there for us. But one thing is for sure, the re-branding of Liberty inside the 2-Party Duopoly is WORKING whereas the Libertarian Party is NOT working. In two election cycles there are now more libertarians then there has been in 40 years of the LP. To really "win" this battle for Liberty, we must now go deep inside the DNC as well. http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or…
Washingtonsucks
March 14th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
This would be my dream ticket, but that's just it, it is only a dream.
MoT
March 14th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
My own effort at slowing down the runaway train of leviathan was more than anything to get an "inside" view of the sausage making machine. It was a disgusting spectacle made all the more vile by having to observe the knuckle headed booboisie prance and mince about waving their pro-war placards and chanting for their warlord of choice. Evil? You betcha!
andy
March 14th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Mexico is almost as good a "friend" to America as Israel is. Almost.
George
March 14th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
If Ron Paul were to ditch the Republican party, you would effectively cede the foreign policy debate to the neocons. Pat Buchanan ran in 2000 third party and he got maybe 1% of the vote and burned bridges that to this day haven't been repaired in the Republican party. Consider that George Will is saying a lot of the things Ron Paul is saying. That Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, and Rick Santorum in the past couple of weeks have been questioning our involvement in Afghanistan. That most Republicans opposed Obama's involvement in Libya. The best way to proceed is to continue the foreign policy battle internally in the Republican party.
Truthster
March 14th, 2012 at 4:50 pm
The AIPACers won over the Evangelicals by developing a theology/ideology which played into their hands.
Ideologies and theologies are very malleable things. With a little effort a theology/ideology could be quickly developed that would call upon Evangelicals to oppose Israel (and the US Empire) at every step.
It is low hanging fruit and certain to be a lot of fun in the making.
The Zios will never know what hit them.
djosha
March 14th, 2012 at 5:28 pm
From one small country,
It is heart- warming to read Justin´s article, and then opinions of so many good and bright people from USA! I was far more pessimist, but it seems that there are a Lot of people in America that are smart, brilliant and witty. Good to know. I would like to have some friends like that.
From all plans, R3VOLution one seems most realistic, if for nothing more, than because powerkeepers never imagine, I think, attack from that direction. Third party they eat for breakfast, but from inside? Very good idea!! And natural, historically proven method. Bravo!
What a wonderful world!
Jaime
March 14th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
Why is it stupid? I wonder what the Mexicans say about you, the country that shamelessly stole 119% of their territory by means of murder and theft. "The land stolen from Mexico is considered to be among the riches in the world where an abundance of gold was found after the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed. The native Mexicans were forced to become US citizens or leave the area one year after the Treaty was signed. The well-known philosopher and historian Jose Vasconcelos wrote that one reason whites perpetrated horrible crimes against Mexicans, was because they believed in the concept known as 'manifest destiny' which in practice meant to 'kill all the Mexicans and take Mexico.' History has registered thousands of grotesque crimes against Mexicans in that part of the Native American Continent, but more outstanding for having similarities with the grave crimes by whites in Central and South America, are those related to the taken of men by force of arms out of their homes to be murdered, then the white killers would go back to the homes and rape women and little girls, murder them, set the homes on fire, and kill all the animals." What a civilized country indeed! Even though that relates to past history nothing seems to have changed fundamentally if we look at the attitudes and actions of some 'progressists' here. And some have the gall to write about infiltrators. The only infiltrators are those Europeans who came and contaminated America (the real one which covers both South and North) and whose progeny -you, of course- continue debasing these lands. peterike, JBeale and others of a similar ilk, you are nothing more than transplanted Europeans to the real natives in America.
Curious
March 14th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
Okay, bad idea on my part. I wish there was a way to disenfranchise them. The Republican machine decides the elections. They decide who is a serious candidate. Whatever promises they make will be for the sole purpose of gaining cannon fodder to elect their demonic minions. There is no going along to get along with these people. They expect submission and conformity. The Republican Party elite and voters are mostly savages and that is all they are going to be. No amount of evangelizing is going to save their souls. To change a person's heart and mind they would need those things first. The game is rigged. The Republican Party rigs the elections, and changes the rules when it suits them. The Democrat Party has superdelegates which make voter decisions worthless. Even Obama was threatened by the superdelegates.
There isn't a huge party in this country that the non-establishment left and right can get behind that is a compromise between each of them. Many of the Democrat voters who voted for Ron Paul in the primary will abandon him on election day because of this. Libertarians and Progressives have narratives where the other side is in league with the devil. They have a lower opinion concerning paleoconservatives who seem to be willing to compromise for the greater good.
Chis Moore
March 14th, 2012 at 5:48 pm
Ron Paul should definitely keep the door open to the possibility of running independently of the GOP, because once he officially cuts any deal and throws in his lot with the establishment candidate, both he and the Ron Paul Army will be taken for granted.
With the specter of him breaking away and going rogue hanging over the Republicans, he will at the very least be able to squeeze them for the absolute best deal available, and if that's not good enough, he can go anyway.
Frankly, I don't know about the logistics of getting him on the ballot in all 50 states if he did go rogue, but he's got a very sophisticated machine of his own that I'm sure could come up with something. [cont.]
JBeale
March 14th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
Thank you for the input Rusty, but I do not see the basis for your pessimism. Assuming some of these interlocutors are Americans, they should be naturally inclined toward making America healthy and strong. In addition, someone who opposes invasions abroad should naturally come to oppose invasions here at home.
If they are Israelis, however, then all bets are off.
Chris Moore
March 14th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
The other smart principle behind keeping open the possibility of running independently is that Barack Obama is reportedly being "blackmailed" by the Israelis to start a war against Iran well before the election. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middlee…
This would throw everything up in the air, and theoretically even enable Ron Paul to waltz right into the White House when the Dems lose half their voters to an independent candidate like Paul as a consequence.
So in summary, the specter of an independent Ron Paul candidacy keeps both the militant neocon wing of the GOP and the corrupt Democrat establishment honest, at least until final election season, and after that the imperative of NOT doing something too radical (inertia) like starting a war kicks in.
NadePaulKuciGravMcKi
March 14th, 2012 at 6:35 pm
There you go man keep as cool as you can
Face piles of trials with smiles
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave
… keep on thinking free
JBeale
March 14th, 2012 at 6:48 pm
"The native Mexicans were forced to become US citizens or leave the area one year after the Treaty was signed ….. they believed in the concept known as 'manifest destiny' which in practice meant to 'kill all the Mexicans and take Mexico.'"
Offering Mexicans U.S. citizenship seems like a fair deal for the times and a rather far cry from the lie you are propagating that Americans intended to "kill all the Mexicans." If they had wanted to kill all the Mexicans, they would have done so. An offer of citizenship or emigration? Isn't that the deal we all have here? If only the Palestinians were afforded the same consideration by J*wish supremacists.
By the way, Mexicans aren't native to the United States.
Johnny in Wi.
March 14th, 2012 at 6:50 pm
Treg: Maybe you are right. A lot of work has gone into taking over the Republican Party. It took the Goldwaterites 20 years from Barry's speech to the convention in 1960 until Reagan won the White House. The trouble today is that the country seems to be in a lot more trouble. I do think that Romney is saner on foreign policy then either Gingrich or Santorum. At least I hope so. agree with you about the Libertarian Party. It is a dog tht won't hunt. If Ron runs it should be on the Constitution Party ticket. They are a better fit to what he has been campaigning on.
Sunshite
March 14th, 2012 at 7:28 pm
> Ours (the US) is a country of immigrants.
It started out as a nation of pioneers; which half of the population was descended from, even as late as 1990.
dink
March 14th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
"What is arguably the most vital and alive movement this country has seen since the 1960s",
"Ron Paul’s last hurrah cannot – must not — be a “deal” made in Tampa","If and when Obama makes his move against Iran, Paul’s third party campaign will be right there, scarfing up votes from the President’s disillusioned and angry former supporters."
Mr Raimondo can write. Mr Raimondo can analyze.
NBC has taken away its one reporter it had covering Ron Paul, according to politico. http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/03/nbc-p…
I went to my county's Republican caucus and talked to a fellow Paul supporter. I was the the one talking about the deficit, he was the person talking about Mr Obama taking away his second amendment rights away. Yes, the youth where for Dr Paul. But we have older people for Dr Paul also. I think Justin's age analysis of Republican party is dead on.
I don't want a stinking war of choice on Iran. Santorum boils my blood. You can be neutral for Israel, and be AGAINST Netanyahu. But Netanyahu is Israel's choice, not ours. Sovereignty means not being for Obama, and the other Netanyahu lackeys in Republicans garb (Romney, Gingrich, Santorum).
Patrick J Buchanan, in the Daily Bell, talks about how he opposes Empire, and how he is agrees with Ron Paul on this issue, of after we won the cold war. I think he has been a consistent patriot and Mr Raimondo's connection with him is good. http://www.thedailybell.com/3501/Staff-Report-
This nations first order of business must be getting fiscal sanity which is what Dr Paul proscribes. An Iran war is a waste.
bobb
March 14th, 2012 at 9:22 pm
If he runs as a 3rd party candidate I'll vote for him. But the system is obviously rigged. If he doesnt get the nod from the gop and doesnt run, I'll never vote again. The govt will not have my "will of the governed".
e-America, rise up !
March 14th, 2012 at 9:26 pm
Nothing short of Ron Paul can change things by really attacking problems, not people
if the same 'choice' (the GOP nominee that is not Paul vs Obama), it will be doing the same things and you better not 'hope' for some different result (foregin policy wise) to happen, unless you are insane ,as per one famous Einstein quote…
There is nothing to be expected from the current system if the good Dr. isn't there to fix it (or kill it trying…)
This is why is a case of not having Ron Paul President spells a wake up call to start a new Republic, virtual bevcause you cannnot, repeat cannot,. change this system, ever. The mold, the patterns have to be broken, virtually at first.
If you build it (e-America), they will come.
e-America, rise up!
March 14th, 2012 at 9:28 pm
…Continued…
The Amerrica you hold dear into your heart, that image,is not real. It is beautiful, that is garanteed, but in the facts (All the facts, all the acts), its a illusion, no matter how much you love America, the present total America that exist at the very present time is not that super lovable America you think she is and that every ordinary human being should like -if not outrightly love- or respect (not hate and fear as is the case with lots of non Americans).
We have the governments we deserve… If Earth/Humanity deserves a better America, the real one, then Americans, change it into the original version.
If you can't 'restore America', now, then it needs a refoundation, a rebirth, and that can only be made virtual for as the real 'power' is no longer in the hands of You, the People. Move the power -of the People, the humans- to the Internet. Keep the Geogrpahy/ borders and The original Constitution and build it online, run online.
Stop seducing the dog, for Christ's sake!
e-America, rise up!
March 14th, 2012 at 9:45 pm
…The best way to proceed is to continue the foreign policy battle internally in the Republican party. …
Nope! Distraction/diversions/illusions…. Nothing can come out of any 'Party' if Ron Paul is not President
Ron Paul is the last, slim, chance.
e-America, Rise Up!
Rick
March 14th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
Unfortunately, liberty (or even simply constitutional government) is lost cause for now. People prefer slavery. We're all f****d.
e-America, rise up!
March 14th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
e-America, rise up !
Nothing short of Ron Paul can change things by really attacking problems, not people
if the same 'choice' (the GOP nominee that is not Paul vs Obama), it will be doing the same things and you better not 'hope' for some different result (foregin policy wise) to happen, unless you are insane ,as per one famous Einstein quote…
There is nothing to be expected from the current system if the good Dr. isn't there to fix it (or kill it trying…)
This is why is a case of not having Ron Paul President spells a wake up call to start a new Republic, virtual bevcause you cannnot, repeat cannot,. change this system, ever. The mold, the patterns have to be broken, virtually at first.
If you build it (e-America), they will come.
e-America, rise up!
March 14th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
… continued…
The Amerrica you hold dear into your heart, that image,is not real. It is beautiful, that is garanteed, but in the facts (All the facts, all the acts), its a illusion, no matter how much you love America, the present total America that exist at the very present time is not that super lovable America you think she is and that every ordinary human being should like -if not outrightly love- or respect (not hate and fear as is the case with lots of non Americans).
We have the governments we deserve… If Earth/Humanity deserves a better America, the real one, then Americans, change it into the original version.
If you can't 'restore America', now, then it needs a refoundation, a rebirth, and that can only be made virtual for as the real 'power' is no longer in the hands of You, the People. Move the power -of the People, the humans- to the Internet. Keep the Geogrpahy/ borders and The original Constitution and build it online, run online.
Stop seducing the dog, for Christ's sake!
e-America, rise up!
March 14th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
e-America, rise up!
wrdalton
March 14th, 2012 at 10:50 pm
I remember Justin making this same point some time ago. Rand Paul has clearly chosen to say "shibboleth" when required to enter the corridors of GOP power, something his father would not do. He is picking and choosing his battles. But he has the support of his father and his father's followers. And I don't believe that would be the case unless he were willing to take up the full mantle of his father's leadership when his hour comes. And at that point he may be better positioned to advance the cause of non-intervention, as well as liberty (for you cannot have one without the other), than his father has ever been.
wrdalton
March 14th, 2012 at 10:58 pm
In New York this would be possible, where the Republican and Conservative (and even the Liberal) Parties have chosen the same Presidential slate and run the same slate of electors. But in other states, the popular vote cast for one candidate on two tickets would not be consolidated with each other and could prove self-defeating. It is the party with the greatest number of votes, not the presidential candidate, which gets its slate of electors into the college.
liberranter
March 14th, 2012 at 11:31 pm
Corrections:
Should read "ow can it be trusted NOT to do so in the future"… and "…which is why he has NOT affiliated himself …"
J. Clifton
March 14th, 2012 at 11:41 pm
Paul should run third party for all of the reasons Justin listed, and to grow the influence of the movement within the major parties based on the "pain theory' of politics. Frankly, the GOP needs to feel A LOT of pain over its over the cliff war mongering, and its vote fraud rigging Paul out of victories across two primary races. Only by denying it a winnable election in 2012 will the point be made that the Liberty movement, inside the party or outside it, is not to be messed with anymore.
Note that the main reason the GOP tried to make peace with the Tea Party, was because it had removed a number of incumbents from office in the last election cycle. When you cause pain or the potential for pain to others in the political order, you grow in influence. The Paulians need to assert pain and therefore relevance now, or shrink into irrelevance. In the latter case they become yet another barking dog in the Republican backyard, who once thrown a bone or two can be safely ignored, much as the co-opted Tea Party has become.
The best route to accomplish pain to the GOP while growing the movement would be for Paul to announce a LP party run, while staying in the Republican primaries–a both/and approach. This way he is on the ballot in November, while keeping his word about staying in the GOP race through Tampa. The remaining rank and file Republican voters would have a chance to decide on whether to vote for a certain LOSER in Romney (who would have his electability facade stripped away) or go with Paul, who COULD actually win based on a coalition of Republicans, anti-Obama Democrats, independents and energized youth voters voting for him. It's a choice Paul should have presented them with from the very start of this campaign.
Chootee
March 14th, 2012 at 11:45 pm
You nailed it. The GOP is cheating RP and there is no point to continuing the exercise in futility. Release the Paulians from GOP chasing, wasting their time and money trying to overcome the media blackout. He needs to accept the Lib. nomination and blame it on the rampant vote fraud in the GOP. Let the boomers and warvangelicals have their Rombama and free the Paulians to work on attracting new voters out of the 60% who don't vote….but are probably computer literate. I have not been on the 3rd party bandwagon but now is the time. They have jerked Ron Paul around long enough and any scenario likely to come out of Tampa will be a joke..
Kelvin
March 15th, 2012 at 1:12 am
I agree, RP should say goodbye to the War Party. In a three-way race, anything can happen. Yes, he might tip the election to Obama, but so what? Romney is no better than Obama, and in many ways worse, because he is an even bigger warmonger. Sure, it could hurt Rand's political career, but there is no guarantee he will get the GOP nod in 2016 anyway. It will probably go to Rubio.
Kelvin
March 15th, 2012 at 1:24 am
Obama and Romney will spend most of their dough attacking each other. Ron will attract money and support from all sides. If he pulls 15 to 20% in the polls, he will be included in the debates, and then he will quickly move up into the 30s. And who cares if he gets blamed if the Republican nominee loses? THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE DESERVES TO LOSE.
Kelvin
March 15th, 2012 at 1:35 am
There is no way Romney would choose Ron Paul as a running mate. Their views are diametrically opposed to each other. And Ron is certainly not going to change his tune to get on the GOP ticket. If he did, his support would instantly evaporate.
richard vajs
March 15th, 2012 at 5:21 am
From 30 years of experience of working (including shelling out cash) for the Libertarian Party, your point is well taken – the vast majority of American voters DO NOT want to vote third party. They want something for nothing, or they want their views forced upon other people; and they know that the two majority parties are willing to cater to their selfish needs. And what does the Libertarian Party offer – freedom, and a chance to suceed or fail on your own. America is terminally corrupt and corrupt people want a lot of things, but freedom is not one of them. They hate freedom for others, and don't even seem to want it for themselves if that means that they can possibly lose.
In his heart, Ron Paul should know that. As for reforming the Republican Party, surely you jest, unless you plan to use the Augean Stables' gambit – shovel more shit in, in hopes that that works.
Jeremiah
March 15th, 2012 at 6:05 am
Tell that to the "Christian" Zionists. Having lived my entire life in the Bible Belt, I've encountered a lot of these bozos, of varying degrees of fervor—and yes, they're "assimilated." Why, in many cases, their ancestors came here over two centuries ago; and not a few of these ancestors fought in the Revolution. In fact, I've seen *many* thoroughly "assimilated" Americans who—dedicated Israel-firsters or not—are most definitely not the sort of timber from which free societies are built. In short, being well-enculturated or coming from "old stock" is no guarantee of intelligence, morality or loyalty.
And no, the Paulian movement—and the cause of liberty in general—will *not* be helped by an injection of virulent nativism. That's a sure way to kill it—or transform it into something monstrous and hence no longer Paulian.
Ron Paul’s Hour of Decision : Deadline Live With Jack Blood
March 15th, 2012 at 6:07 am
[...] Justin Raimondo, March 14, 2012Antiwar.comIs Ron Paul running for president in the wrong party?The results of the GOP primaries, so far, would [...]
Jaime
March 15th, 2012 at 6:52 am
If what you're saying weren't so serious, I'd laugh. Again, the world can see your arrogance and your sense of exceptionalism. Who told you that Mexicans wanted to become US citizens at the time? You just assume it the same way you assumed Iraqis would throw flowers when the US army entered Baghdad? Even now, most Mexicans prefer to stay within their legal borders. Isn't it true that the US wanted to take the whole Mexico? At the time of the Mexican US War and given US successes on the battlefield, by the summer of 1847 there were calls for the annexation of 'All Mexico', particularly among Eastern Democrats. This is what was called Manifest Destiny, that is, expansionism pure and simple. As to the killing, one only has to see all the 'collateral damage' events in places such as Afghanistan and before on Iraq, and before in Vietnam, and before in Japan, and before in Central America, ad nauseaum to realize that killing is a frame of mind. Or else why does your society worships the military and by extension war? And this addiction to violence is everywhere from Hollywood movies to political speeches.
By the way, Mexicans are taking back what was stolen from them.
George
March 15th, 2012 at 7:41 am
The bottom line is Ron Paul running under the LP banner a second time around isn't going to happen. He has said over and over he doesn't want to run third party. I think it would be more fruitful for Justin Raimondo to make the case to the likely LP nominee Gary Johnson that he should stake out an explicit
antiwar/pro-civil liberties position to win over the Ron Paul supporters and contrast himself with Romney and Obama.
Washingtonsucks
March 15th, 2012 at 8:39 am
I tend to agree with richard vajs, but your response may have some merit. Who would have thought Pat Roberson would ever come out for relaxing pot laws. Anything is possible, I guess.
Ron Paul’s Path to Victory? » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
March 15th, 2012 at 9:47 am
[...] Ron Paul’s Path to Victory? [...]
jeff_davis
March 15th, 2012 at 10:46 am
Are you a native American, you know, an Indian?
If not, your ancestors I-M-M-I-G-R-A-T-E-D. After they immigrated, these immigrants may well have been "pioneers". The latter does not exclude or contradict the former.
Your nonsensical (profoundly lame)comment almost certainly is motivated by an underlying bigotry so powerful that it has turned your thinking into junk.
Susan
March 15th, 2012 at 10:49 am
This article is AWESOME. And thanks for taking the stance of not endorsing a politician.
I have some issues with Ron Paul that have made me decide not to vote for him – but I'm not planning to vote for anybody else either. Still, the GOP is so corrupt, as are the Democrats, as is the MSM – they are all too blinded by corruptness to see what RP stands for, and why he may be more right than they want to admit.
marcos
March 15th, 2012 at 11:27 am
The only way Paul has a hope of winning as an independent is to put aside his libertarianism and focus on areas of broad policy agreement that is being ignored by the demopublicans and republicrats. If Paul decided to work his way down from the policies that had the highest support, then he would have a chance.
But his libertarian capitalist base steeped in Austrian economics will make that very difficult if not impossible.
jeff_davis
March 15th, 2012 at 11:32 am
Not rational to bigots who hate spics. Understood.
I support your right to believe whatever you want and to speak your beliefs.
However, opinion clearly is divided on the birthright citizenship issue. Some supporting, some opposing. I encourage you, if you want to change the situation — have birthright citizenship nullified — to engage in political activism in pursuit of your goal. Perhaps you will succeed. (I obviously will not support denial of birthright citizenship).
dcarkuff
March 15th, 2012 at 11:39 am
How about this whacked scenerio – make it a crime to conduct fraudulent primary and caucus elections and prosecute those committing this fraud, which goes directly to the heart of what this country is supposed to be about. Ron and freedom fighters will get exactly nothing out of the convention. The nomination process has revealed itself to be fundamentally corrupt and Ron should not participate in it, giving it a legitimacy it does not have.
jeff_davis
March 15th, 2012 at 11:42 am
All those Americans "whose generosity gave [you] opportunity in this country" are, or are descended from, immigrants who started out as aliens.
Your bigotry is impenetrable.
Ron Paul links | RevolutioNation
March 15th, 2012 at 11:44 am
[...] Ron Paul’s path to victory [...]
jeff_davis
March 15th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
"It is not voluntary. It violates the consent of the American people."
It may violate the consent of the American Bigots-R-Us contingent. But last I looked, they, you among them, are ***NOT*** the American people.
So, hold a referendum, run for public office, and then, and only then, if the non-bigots agree with you… but then, that's not going to happen, is it? You lose.
Guess you're just gonna have to suck it up.
Oberon Osiris
March 15th, 2012 at 12:41 pm
Polititcs is the art of compromise. One of the problems right now is Republicans will never compromise on anything. Tea – whatevers, even moreso.
If Paulinians also won't/ shouldn't compromise, how does this help us? Don't we need government that can do compromise?
@SOGTP
March 15th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
The Republican Party was always the party of non intervention until Pappy Bush and GW. Robert Taft (R-OH) stood in the Senate railing against the Korean War. And don't forget it was the Republican Party that got us out of Vietnam. Ron Paul is simply the old Republican Conservative. Non intervention, not anti war.
principled
March 15th, 2012 at 1:42 pm
veto
Carpenter
March 15th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
A thoughtful and well-researched article by a leading voice in the anti-war camp. I don't give such praise easily.
It is true, Third Party seems the logical step now. And it is true, Ron Paul has done everything right up until this point to prepare for it:
–Many years in Congress, gaining "Legitimacy" and creating a strong political record
–Creating a movement inside one of the two major parties, which is where activists go
–Now he can bring that movement out of the party. Like you say, his movement "has now reached its limits within the confines of the GOP, like a potted plant whose roots can no longer be contained."
–Appeal to Democrats who would never vote for a Republican. Make sure everyone knows he is an emergency candidate willing to set aside some issues that won't pass – his wish to repeal the income tax, for example – for the sake of solving the emergency, stop the wars. And save the economy from more insane spending. And reveal all the hidden crimes and secret alliances, torture prisons in Poland and elsewhere, secret troop placements etc, committed by the CIA and the Pentagon abroad.
He must make sure that both Democrats and Republicans know he is out to reveal and stop the crimes. People will know that electing him will be an earthquake of revelations – and the saving of tens of thousands of lives, no doubt.
With the entire establishment and all the major media heavily against him, it might not work. But it COULD work. It is the only chance we have.
Nathan
March 15th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
I really wish Ron paul to run as a third party. The two-party system was rigged from its inception.
Jim
March 15th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Ron Paul needs to join forces with Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson, and here's why:
Polls indicate Ron Paul would get 18% to 21% (and climbing) running as a third party candidate. Meanwhile, polls indicate Gary Johnson would get 10% to 12% (and climbing) running as the Libertarian candidate.
So together, Ron Paul and Gary Johnson would get 28% to 33% (and climbing) if they joined forces. This puts the presidency well within their reach in a 3-way race between Obama, Romney, and Paul-Johnson!
Also, the Libertarian Party is on all 50 state ballots, which is a great advantage to have.
And why SHOULDN'T Ron Paul and Gary Johnson join forces anyway? Their positions on the major issues are practically identical!
If Ron Paul and Gary Johnson join forces, then it's really inconsequential which of them is the presidential candidate, and which one is the vice-presidential candidate. Their positions are practically identical anyway. And either of them would be a MUCH better president than either Obama or Romney.
On the other hand, if Ron Paul and Gary Johnson DON'T join forces, then we are looking at a 4-way race (between Obama, Romney, Paul and Johnson). With Ron Paul and Gary Johnson splitting each other's votes, this is a race where neither Ron Paul nor Gary Johnson stands much of a chance.
And this is why it's CRITICAL that Ron Paul and Gary Johnson join forces, on the Libertarian ticket.
We need to reach out to all supporters of Ron Paul and Gary Johnson – to pass the message to BOTH Ron Paul and Gary Johnson, that they need to join forces. This is the only way we have a fighting chance to take back our country from the warmongers.
bad idea
March 15th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Kucinich is a free agent now. Maybe Paul Kucinich and Johnson can run in different states, and end up with a brokered presidency.
Ben_C
March 15th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
As long as there is this false narrative of an imagined 'reconciliation' between Ron Paul and the eventual GOP candidate, any move to run as a 3rd party candidate may have significant fallout–as the GOP establishment, along with the slobs in the 'lame-stream' media, will attempt to marginalize Paul as simply a sore loser and self-aggrandizing kook who's just running to be a spoiler just because he's bitter about losing and/or he's secretly in the tank for Obama.
I think the best possible scenario for Paul, IMHO, would be for him to stay with the "Republican" brand all the way until the convention, broker a deal for a prime-time speech, and use his speaking time to articulate how he has been "forced out" of the Republican party, as the GOP has lost its way and turned its back on America, and all it stands for, right along with the Democratic party. Upon conclusion of the speech, he should immediately proceed to exit the convention hall–ignoring the media buffoons on his way out.
Doing this would accomplish a number of things:
1. This would most likely leave the established 'lame-stream' media ninnies stunned and reeling. The incredulous 'lame-stream' would be so "shocked" by such an "episode", they'll probably talk about/replay the event over and over–possibly for the next 50 years or so–which, in turn, translates into free "publicity" and exposure of Paul's message reaching people who don't even care about politics.
2. By taking things all the way to the convention, Paul will continue to receive reluctant free media coverage and he will be able to participate in the debates. Staying with the "R" brand now also has fundraising benefits which aren't trivial. Keep in mind, most people (most "voters" who will actually show up on election day) are not even paying attention to the race now.
3. By articulating his reasons for leaving the GOP, when people are actually paying attention, people might actually listen, instead of hearing second hand speculation. Additionally, he can at least "plant a seed" of skepticism about our political process, even if the concept is not immediately understood or embraced by the general public initially.
4. Paul will get attention, possibly support, from people who, for whatever reason, have an aversion to the name "Republican", who would otherwise ignore Paul altogether.
Ben_C
March 15th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
(…)
I don't know if Paul even wants to run in the General, and whatever he decides to do–no matter what it may ultimately be–I'm just glad he took a stand and fought for America up to this point. If he does want to take this to the end, I understand getting 50 State + all US territory ballot access may be virtually impossible if he waits until after the convention to make the transition to a "3rd party" or some sort of independent campaign. Be that as it may, if there is a way to do so, I think taking this through to the convention would make the most sense. I think one of the worst things that could happen (other than Paul endorsing the eventual GOP nominee that is), would be for Paul to get out of the GOP contest and essentially be ignored and forgotten–and not widely heard when most people will actually start paying attention to the presidential race.
nigh_eve
March 15th, 2012 at 6:16 pm
George, I'm with ya brother, but if you see strains of libertarianism in the tea party movement that's all you see — strains. The movement started in '07 was co-opted in '09 by "mainstream" republicanism. I have no qualms with our local republican creed — they just don't follow it and only pay lip service to it!
Ron Paul himself has nothing to lose — he's always stood against the establishment and if people choose to take it out on Rand and he's unable to make a name and a stand for himself — so be it!
Up until now, I have been against RP making the 3rd party run (even though I voted CP last time around) but I agree with Justin — NOW is the time.
George
March 15th, 2012 at 7:27 pm
The Tea Party is a very diverse movement that I think can be worked on. Also, Rand Paul is a major figure in that movement.
I don't think RP has much to lose personally either, but I think the movement within the Republican party would take a hit. It would be perceived as a Nader situation. I also am very skeptical that Paul will have the funding and media attention to be at all competitive with Romney (or Santorum) and Obama.
Don't forget the example of Pat Buchanan in 2000 who broke with the Republicans and wound up with 1% of the vote. Pat Buchanan was coming off two high profile Presidential runs in the Republican party and probably had as high a name recognition as Paul.
George
March 15th, 2012 at 8:10 pm
This should be taken as an open letter to the would be LP nominee Gary Johnson:
I speak for many Ron Paul supporters (and I am sure very many independents and disaffected Democrats as well), if you want to capture our support and make a real splash in this election, you need to champion a strong antiwar and pro-civil liberties position. I respect your advocacy of drug legalization, but I can tell you from the trenches that drug legalization alone will not garner you significant support among Ron Paul supporters. It is the antiwar and civil liberties message that really fires up Ron Paul supporters, and you need to position yourself– as Ron Paul has–as a champion of peace and liberty in the broad sense of those terms. You don't want people to dismiss you as a single issue candidate, or a lightweight. If you want to carry the Ron Paul mantle, you to need to make the case for peace and liberty on all fronts.
Amused Liberal
March 15th, 2012 at 8:45 pm
I knew that this thread would rile up people more than any other. It seems that hatred of blacks and Mexicans is the glue holding together what's left of the Reagan coalition.
As a liberal, let me tell you: I can't wait until the rest of you old bigots die off and we can finally have a normal country.
Also, this will hopefully be the last election that we have to suffer Ron Paul and his hypocritical foolishness.
drekfletch
March 15th, 2012 at 9:03 pm
Libertarian Party by-laws state that the candidate cannot be running for any other party. Only one at a time. If you haven't looked into him, the Libertarian frontrunner is Gary Johnson, who shares many positions with Ron Paul.
drekfletch
March 15th, 2012 at 9:12 pm
Have you looked into Gary Johnson. He shares many of Ron Paul's positions, and is the current frontrunner of the Libertarian Party. If Ron does not move on to the General election, analysts say it'll be an even three way run between Obama, the Republican nominee and Gary. The Party expects to garner enough of the voter percentage (Gary is already just under 10% nationally) to qualify for not having to petition to get on ballots all the time. With Gary, I think they have a hope of getting into the Oval office.
juvanya
March 15th, 2012 at 11:40 pm
He cant do it. A lot of states have sore loser primaries.
Ben_C
March 16th, 2012 at 2:57 am
George…with all due respect, the: "libertarian movement in the Republican party to radically change course now" is complete fantasy. There is no "radical change" on the horizon as the system is structured today–there is no "radical change" even if power shifts from one of the two national political parties to the other. Obama was the imagined "Hope and Change" for the Democratic party, regardless of what you though of the promised "Hope and Change" made by Mr. Obama. The only "change" from the Bush administration that came from Mr. Obama is more tyranny of the state and perpetual war–essentially continuing, and in some critical areas furthering, Bush's extreme policies to an extent Dick Cheney wouldn't have dreamed possible in his wildest wet dream–which is essentially the exact opposite of what Mr. Obama campaigned on… The only thing that has "changed" from Bush to Obama, in reality, is the 'tone' and the superficial talking points.
The GOP the next cycle, and the cycle after that, etc., will just cart out the next plastic empty suit who will make straw man arguments that have no relevance to reality, or even a purpose other than to maintain the deceptive and illusory sense of "choice" among the "voters" (cynically, perhaps accurately, viewed as morons by our government 'masters'/'rulers' who are the 'winners' in our current political system). These false narratives of arguments over "issues" which simply do not exist, and/or the federal government really has no real control over in the first place–even if we lived in Nazi Germany–is necessary to preserve the Duopoly control of our national political system. This tactic of maintaining a fake story-line of imaginary "conflict" (expect when it comes to "payoffs" to certain interests and other relatively marginal issues), which sometimes comes in the form of invented fantasies, such as: "Obama needs to stop apologizing for America" or "Romney-care was 'entirely different' than Obama-care" or, better yet "Big Government/Big Brother/The Military Industrial Complex/the Police State/Government spending in general is Baaaaad", except, of course, when it is done on behalf of the Government master you happen to vote for and/or it accomplishes your personal objective of imposing your personal will on others in society… Of course everyone likes "freedom"; however, people also like to "control". This "control" impulse is not washed away simply because people can go to the local high school and punch a touchscreen "ballot" and "vote" in an almighty, so-called (and incorrectly so I might add) "democracy". Be that as it may, it's vital to maintain and reinforce this illusion so the perceived "slobs"–aka. the American People–have false sense of "freedom" via their meaningless "votes". Regardless of what you may think of this "observation of reality", it is "reality"… Tyranny will always adapt and change to win out in any any political system…democracy or a dictatorship, it really doesn't matter…it doesn't matter unless the "people" are 'informed', and most importantly: "vigilant", which 'they' obviously are not. The 'stamp of men' our system breeds these day are people who are unscrupulous and narcissistic. This is what the system rewards, therefore, these are characteristics required to "win".
Rbin
March 16th, 2012 at 4:03 am
You keep talking about U.S. citizenship as being some kind of gift. Sounds more like a curse to me.
Tell me, my friend, have you ever been outside the U.S.?
Jeremiah
March 16th, 2012 at 4:57 am
I don't like vile bigots any more than you do—but tell me: what's "hypocritical" and "foolish" about Ron Paul? Of course, when I think about concepts like hypocrisy and foolishness, among the first images to come to mind are the legions of so-called "liberals" and "progressives" who march in lockstep behind the current warmongering, civil liberties-shredding president and all his Bushian policies.
You have precious little to be amused about.
Wolfgang Bohringer
March 16th, 2012 at 7:44 am
This solves all of the sore-loser problems and the best outcome might be if Ron does not get the nomination:
Ron's Best Chance at the Repub Nomination: Judge Nap Pressures Them
I really think this could invigorate the movement and address some of the depressing things the campaign is doing to us now.
Ron's Only Chance at the Repub Nomination lies entirely in the hands of Judge Nap. There is no other libertarian that has the purity of principles and enough general respectablility that can pull off the only bold step that can win Ron the nomination.
We all know that we probably have enough power to cause a brokered convention. And as much fun as that will be, we all also know that barring some external event–such as some kind of a meltdown of the banking system for which they can't for some reason engineer a police state measure sufficient to distract Boobus–getting a majority of the delegates isn't going to happen.
So here is how Judge Nap can single handedly make something happen and get Ron the nomination or at worst guarantee a 3rd Party win in November if the Repubs refuse to nominate Ron:
1. First Judge Nap calls a press conference and announces that he's worried that Ron won't get the Republican nomination.
2. Next Judge Nap announces at that press conference that he is seeking BOTH the Libertarian and Green Party presidential nominations effective immediately and will ask somebody such as Ralph Nader or Cynthia McKinney to be his running mate and run on a fusion ticket focused exclusively on carrying out Ron Paul's Statement of 4 Principles that Ron got the 3rd Parties to agree to in 2008 (foreign policy, privacy/civil liberties, federal reserve, and balanced budget).
3. Then Judge Nap says that he is doing this now rather than waiting until after the Tampa convention because he wants to make it clear to the 2200 Tampa delegates as well as the remaining Republican caucus and primary voters that there WILL be a candidate this time with a purely Ron Paul presidential platform on the ballot in all 50 states and there's no way that the Republican Party has a future if they don't get on board now while they have the chance to nominate Ron themselves.
4. Then Judge Nap displays comprehensive charts showing the attending press Ron's polling numbers vs. Obama compared to the other Repub candidates and tells the Republicans that he will gladly withdraw his candidacy the moment that Ron wins the Republican nomination.
On top of giving us a real good chance at the Presidency one way or the other, I think this is the best thing that can be done to keep the spirit alive by putting a damper on the current spirit-crushing that comes from all of Jesse Benton and the hayseed campaign staff's jockeying for positions in Romney's bureaucracy or C4L that we've been forced to endure lately.
Dither
March 16th, 2012 at 8:54 am
I hope Ron Paul does mount a third-party bid for the presidency. That said, let's not be naive. Does anyone think the real power in this country is above rigging an election? We know the CIA and other arms of the American state manipulate elections and engineer coups in other lands. Is not our own government far more important to the interests behind those foreign operations?
Strider55
March 16th, 2012 at 11:27 am
Exactly. Just what we need — the Unabomber as Secretary of the Interior. Gore is the quintessential "watermelon" — green on the outside, red on the inside. If he's truly worried about global warming, he should kill himself and cut off the massive spewing of hot air from his mouth.
Strider55
March 16th, 2012 at 11:38 am
To your offer, I'd like to add mine — a lifetime lift pass at Ski Miami.
Strider55
March 16th, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Bernie Sanders as Secretary of State?? Good grief, the guy is a flaming Marxist. I have no doubt he is Lenin reincarnated. Plus, he's about as "diplomatic" as this famous human volcano. How about this guy, who has certainly paid his dues at Foggy Bottom (and then some)? (The fact that I couldn't quickly think of anyone else is its own sad commentary on the state of the Imperial Yankee government.)
Roberts at Treasury is a good choice. Walter Williams is the best. Make PCR his top deputy.
Don't know if you meant to do it, but listing just those four positions is a telling statement all its own. Those are the only Cabinet departments that have any Constitutional standing, so in a Paul administration all the others would be abolished. I'd tip my hat to you if I was wearing one, so I'll let my avatar tip his instead!
hymnler
March 17th, 2012 at 7:46 am
jeff … stfu u annoying little beeotch .. are u confused , sexually ?
Rand Paul: No Secret Deal Between Paul and Romney | Notes & Observations
March 17th, 2012 at 11:26 am
[...] themselves into believing that something good can come out of negotiations with Mitt Romney, should pay attention to Justin Raimondo: “Ron Paul’s last hurrah cannot – must not — be a ‘deal’ made in [...]
Hardy
March 18th, 2012 at 6:30 am
The inside thing isn't working. His picked up the strength he needed and now he can go a third party route and be strong enough as a LP candidate to get to 15% to be on the national debate state and to have people vote for him from both sides. I still know many people who will never vote for a Republican no matter who the candidate is. The Republican brand is way more damaged than the LP brand which no one really knows about. To compare 40 years of the LP with no major wave behind them is a false comparison.
A Johnson & Paul ticket on the LP would be give the LP the strength needed to break the duopoly. If they don't do it now then we'll continue this back and forth of Bush > Obama > Romney forever.
Hardy
March 18th, 2012 at 6:31 am
Ron needs to jump to the LP and run as Gary Johnson's VP.
hardy
March 18th, 2012 at 6:49 am
Writing Paul's name is a complete waste of the liberty movement we have been building for the last 4 years. If Paul doesn't switch to third party and doesn't win the GOP nomination, then we all should be support Gary Johnson on the LP ticket. Johnson is essentially Paul, but prochoice and for marriage equality.
hardy
March 18th, 2012 at 6:51 am
Root isn't the LP spokesman in anyway. Root is a megaphone for his own ego.
The LP is Paul's best shot. A Paul / Johnson ticket would destroy Obama/Romney
hardy
March 18th, 2012 at 6:53 am
The LP by-laws don't state that as far as I can tell. Paul could seek the LP nomination. A Johnson/Paul ticket would be the best combo in the race.
hardy
March 18th, 2012 at 6:56 am
Your running mate arguments are flawed. Johnson didn't turn off any pro-lifers with is pro-choice position in New Mexico as governor. The pro-life groups even endorsed him in NM. Johnson is a serious candidate. He's focused on balancing the budget like no other candidate.
Ventura is a laughing stock. If Johnson wasn't running the you might settle for Ventura, but Ventura is just a crazed conspiracy theorist living in Mexico with a hothead.
hardy
March 18th, 2012 at 6:58 am
The GOP isn't getting reformed. The LP is the logical choice. The LP hasn't had the backing it's needed to become a major force, but it does now.
hardy
March 18th, 2012 at 7:00 am
Check out Gary Johnson. Two term governor of New Mexico. In line with Paul on 99.9% of the issues. Johnson has more executive experience than Obama & Romney combined. A better job creation record. Has been against the wars from the start. Is against the fed. He's Paul, but younger.
hardy
March 18th, 2012 at 7:01 am
Oh you decided eh? Taking over the GOP has failed. It's time to go third party before all enthusiasm for Paul fades and the movement dies. It's time for a 3rd party in this country and 80% of Americans are ready for one.
Justine Raimondo Advises Ron Paul to Run Third Party | Independent Political Report
March 18th, 2012 at 8:48 pm
[...] See the article at Anti-War.com. Via Lew Rockwell. Here’s a taste: Three factors have kept Paul from being a real contender: not only the hostility of the leadership and the age demographics of the average Republican primary voter – which is well over 40 – but also the ideological factor. After a decade and more of neoconservative domination, not only of the party but of the conservative movement, the GOP is the War Party. For the Paul campaign, this is fatal. Ron has made his anti-interventionist views the linchpin of his campaign: he never fails to bring up the issue of war and peace, even when discussing some economic or social topic. That’s because he realizes – unlike some “libertarians” – the issue is central to the question of rolling back the power of government to rule our lives. [...]
30.06
March 19th, 2012 at 1:04 am
http://ronpaulflix.com/2012/03/st-charles-county-…
30.06
March 19th, 2012 at 1:06 am
Ron Paul needs to run as third party / Independent .
Richard Channing
March 20th, 2012 at 8:46 am
So, if Bernie Madoff had given his children everything he stole from his victims you'd say they should not return the money since they were not the ones who broke the law. That statement is absurd.
Richard Channing
March 20th, 2012 at 8:48 am
It's not that divided. The overwhleming majority of Americans oppose it.
Richard Channing
March 20th, 2012 at 8:51 am
The litter they produce, the ruined schools, the hollowed out cities they inhabit. These are the best of American values? The drunken driving accidents, crime, consumption of taxpayer dollars are the best of American values? This is insanity.
Richard Channing
March 20th, 2012 at 8:53 am
Is that all the open borders crowd on this site has to offer? Calling people who oppose open borders racists? That's what your position has degenerated to?
Justin Raimondo Advises Ron Paul to Run Third Party | ThirdPartyPolitics.us
March 21st, 2012 at 9:30 am
[...] See the article at Anti-War.com. Via Lew Rockwell. Here’s a taste: Three factors have kept Paul from being a real contender: not only the hostility of the leadership and the age demographics of the average Republican primary voter – which is well over 40 – but also the ideological factor. After a decade and more of neoconservative domination, not only of the party but of the conservative movement, the GOP is the War Party. For the Paul campaign, this is fatal. Ron has made his anti-interventionist views the linchpin of his campaign: he never fails to bring up the issue of war and peace, even when discussing some economic or social topic. That’s because he realizes – unlike some “libertarians” – the issue is central to the question of rolling back the power of government to rule our lives. [...]
Political Class Dismissed » Blog Archive » Ron Paul Should Take the LP Nomination
April 1st, 2012 at 10:42 am
[...] join my fellow Liberty Movement veterans Walter Block and Justin Raimondo in urging Ron Paul to continue the race as the Libertarian [...]