Defeating the Tyranny of the ‘Conventional Wisdom’
Another world is possible...
I really feel sorry for Katherine Mangu-Ward: she walked into a hornet’s nest when she appeared on Fox News the other day and disparaged Ron Paul – or, rather, mocked his chances of winning the GOP presidential nomination. She might have thought she was merely expressing the Conventional Wisdom on Paul’s candidacy – which, indeed, she was – but her comments underscored an important point about how social change works, which I’ll get to in a moment. But first …
As senior editor of Reason magazine, an ostensibly libertarian publication, the Paulians rightly expected her to stand up for her team. Oddly, it was left to the other panelist, journalist and author Liz Trotta – not a libertarian, as far as I know – to defend Paul, and her defense was interesting: she said the wars are a bigger issue than anyone realizes, and since Paul is the only Republican candidate calling for an end to US intervention around the world, the issue could conceivably catapult him into the top tier. Mangu-Ward, a former staffer at the Weekly Standard, sat there and rolled her eyes, as if someone had suggested the moon is made of green cheese.
Immediately after her performance, a howl of outrage went up from the libertarian ranks, demanding Mangu-Ward’s head. “Fire her!” they demanded – indeed, so numerous and loud were the protests and subscription cancellations that Nick Gillespie, former editor-in-chief at Reason and now resident Talking Head, was forced to take to the Reason blog with a rather weak defense of his colleague’s faux pas. Since Reason’s slogan is “free markets and free minds,” averred Gillespie, their editors are free to say and write whatever they want. According to this theory, Mangu-Ward could predict the victory of the Socialist Party candidate, and not collect a pink slip. That this would never happen is irrelevant: Reason is a Beltway institution, although they still retain their office in Los Angeles, and Gillespie was simply defending his fellow Beltway pundit – and the Conventional Wisdom she gave voice to — against the mob of ignorant hoi polloi,
But why were the libertarian hoi polloi so angry? It was, I think, much more than the fact that one is supposed to defend one’s own tribe against external attack: after all, this isn’t the first time Reason has sneered at Ron Paul, who is so far removed from the trendy “lifestyle” issues the magazine loves to write about that the distance can only be measured in light years. The “cosmopolitan” wing of the libertarian movement has very little in common with the grassroots, and this is true for the simple reason that the “cosmotarians” nearly all live and work in Washington, D.C., where the tyranny of the Conventional Wisdom is strongest.
No one in the Imperial City, outside of Ron Paul and his staff, believes the Paul campaign is going anywhere, and, more – they don’t believe it can go anywhere but into the dustbin of yesterday’s failed campaigns. It is they – the self-appointed gatekeepers and guardians of the Conventional Wisdom – who define the parameters of the possible, and they have deemed a Paul presidency impossible because it goes against everything they’ve ever known and were taught to believe. Even the “libertarians” among them – and I use the term very loosely – are trapped inside this bubble where nothing much ever changes, and this means the State and its worshippers are always going to be on top, and the libertarian “radicals” (and their progressive brothers-and-sisters-in-spirit on the “far left”) are always going to be marginal. This ultra-conservative mindset – conservative in the temperamental sense – is a function not only of what the Beltway pundits believe, but, rather, of who they are and where they live.
They are intellectuals, albeit of the third or fourth tier, publicists, policy wonks – denizens of the Beltway subculture, where Power is at the center of everything. In these circles, one’s relationship to Power determines one’s social and professional standing, and the attainment of Power is the end-all and be-all of existence. If you’re not in Power, then you’re constantly angling and scheming to get back into Power. The role of libertarians in such a milieu is to act as the class clowns, or the Bad Kids – who are allowed a certain amount of leeway, but, in order to keep their jobs and their vaunted credibility, invariably police themselves so as to avoid expulsion from Olympus. Thus, the Beltway “libertarians” are allowed to play in their own sandbox, contenting themselves with extolling methamphetamine addiction and calling for the immediate importation of the entire Mexican population to Arizona – but beyond that they dare not stray. Thus, Reason stayed “neutral” – i.e. objectively pro-war – during the run up to the invasion and occupation of Iraq, running both pro and anti-war pieces as if the two held equal weight from a libertarian perspective. War is debatable over at Reason magazine, but the legalization of heroin and the sale of babies – not so much.
In any case, the really interesting part of all this – didn’t you know we’d get to the interesting part eventually? – is what it says about how differently the two main classes in American society see the possibilities of social change.
To us ordinary Americans, the hoi polloi if you will, the process of social and political change is simple: we get to decide if and when a political change occurs, because, you see, we have these events known as elections. Which means we get to pick and choose our leaders: if we don’t like the current occupant of the Oval Office, we can pitch him out and raise someone else up to take his place. It could be any native-born American in theory at least.
To the Beltway crowd – the elaborate society that has grown up around what can only be characterized as America’s version of a Royal Court – this is an archaic fiction, a theory that will never be put into practice. In reality, they believe, they get to do the choosing, by setting up the standards and nominating candidates to the “top tier.” From these chosen few will come the actual winners. Having jumped through all the traditional hoops, and survived the scrutiny of the various lobbyists, both foreign and domestic, the elite’s favored candidates will be dutifully rubberstamped by the American public, and two will emerge from the two state-privileged parties – one from Team Red, and one from Team Blue – to do battle. This way, no matter who wins, the status quo prevails unto eternity.
To our rulers in Washington, and their intellectual sycophants, their reign is slated to last practically forever. Sure, Team Red may take the throne White House next time, but that just means a few billion dollars less will be spread around at home and a few billion more will wind up in the pockets of military contractors and the Koch brothers. From the Beltway’s point of view, change on a fundamental level is not only undesirable – it’s impossible.
The reason has to do with the mindset of a certain sort of intellectual, best described by George Orwell in his treatment of James Burnham, a professor of philosophy and a figure who commanded some attention in intellectual circles in the late 1930s and early 40s. Burnham was a former leftist who switched over to the right after World War II, going on to become a founding editor of National Review. His 1941 book, The Managerial Revolution, made a splash when it appeared, prophesizing a German victory in Europe and the break-up of the USSR. Tracing the trajectory of Burnham’s mistaken predictions and ideological predilections, Orwell notes that whomever seems to be winning at the time – the Germans, when Burnham’s book was being written – is presented as if their victory was all but inevitable. Being proved wrong didn’t stop Burnham: after the war, he took to praising Stalin in an eerie essay for Partisan Review, “Lenin’s Heir” – just at the point when Stalin and FDR were divvying up the spoils of war in Central and Eastern Europe. As Orwell put it:
“Power worship blurs political judgement because it leads, almost unavoidably, to the belief that present trends will continue. Whoever is winning at the moment will always seem to be invincible. If the Japanese have conquered south Asia, then they will keep south Asia for ever, if the Germans have captured Tobruk, they will infallibly capture Cairo; if the Russians are in Berlin, it will not be long before they are in London: and so on. This habit of mind leads also to the belief that things will happen more quickly, completely, and catastrophically than they ever do in practice. … Such a manner of thinking is bound to lead to mistaken prophecies, because, even when it gauges the direction of events rightly, it will miscalculate their tempo. Within the space of five years Burnham foretold the domination of Russia by Germany and of Germany by Russia. In each case he was obeying the same instinct: the instinct to bow down before the conqueror of the moment, to accept the existing trend as irreversible.”
Bowing before the conqueror of the moment is the leitmotif of life in official Washington, and it defines the limits of the possible. No one foresaw the implosion of the Soviet empire, including especially the Soviets and our own CIA – just as no one can imagine the decline and fall of the American empire, which Ron Paul has been predicting, now, for all the years he’s been in politics.
The incredible short-sightedness of our elected officials, and their Washington hangers-on, is part and parcel of the ruling elite’s self-referential way of looking at the world — the byproduct of extreme hubris, untrammeled narcissism, and a half century of American global hegemony. This is an occupational hazard of all ruling elites throughout history: encased in a bubble, and blinded by their impregnable complacency, they never see the crack-up coming until it’s already too late to do anything about it.
Deaf to the tumult rising above the castle walls, they go about their routine rituals of power-worship and inside baseball, oblivious to what’s coming. That’s why the so-called budget “crisis” produced an agreement to basically continue as before: real spending won’t drop, only the rate of increase. That’s why Anne-Marie Slaughter and her fellow Valkyries at the State Department and MSNBC are dancing a “victory” jig over Libya. To the idolators of Power, as Orwell puts it, “whoever is winning at the moment will always seem to be invincible.”
The lords of Washington are devoted to the myth of their own invincibility: the colonnaded halls of the Capitol and the sacred precincts of the White House are, for them, the inviolable epicenter of all that really matters, with the rest a mere afterthought. Who cares what those rubes in flyover country are saying about Ron Paul, the wars, or anything else?
This is the great weakness of decadent elites: they develop a debilitating tunnel vision which is all mixed up with their power-worship and, of course, their career prospects. In order to advance through the ranks, they must continually reaffirm their belief in the validity (and, if not that, then the de facto invulnerability) of the system. To do otherwise is to risk being sidelined, and marginalized. You can’t really blame Ms. Mangu-Ward: after all, everyone has to make a living.
Blinded by hubris, and succored by their own complacency, ruling elites have been known to march to the guillotine still believing in their own invincibility. Revolutions do take place, however, and they occur because, suddenly, the majority comes to see that another world is possible. And it doesn’t have to be a majority of the country, at that: it can be a determined and very well-organized minority that knows what it wants and seizes the opportunity to get it.
With the crisis of the country – economic, social, and moral – reaching the boiling point, Mangu-Ward’s flippant dismissal of the idea that another world is possible, that a true outsider like Paul could come from behind and seize the moment, was infuriating indeed. It made people angry because it underscored the arrogance, and the tired cynicism, of Washington politics-as-usual, made all the more abrasive coming out of the mouth of a supposed “libertarian.”
Americans are getting very close to the breaking point: that is, the point where they are ready to break with the old and take their chances with the new – because anything is better than the status quo. When they get there, a committed minority with the passion and the political savvy to make a difference could very well win an election – or, at any rate, make it so difficult for the ruling elite to retain Power as to wipe the smirk off Ms. Mangu-Ward’s face.
The war issue, as Trotta trenchantly observed, is quite conceivably the spark that will set the prairie aflame: we’ve been through economic downturns before, without a political and social revolution overturning the established order. This time, however, we’re a world empire — the Lone Superpower — still sending out expeditionary forces to subdue new territories while we ourselves teeter on the brink of bankruptcy.
In the wake of the Soviet empire’s collapse, the American ruling class and its European allies are making a real attempt to establish a “world order” – with themselves at the top, naturally enough. The imminent collapse of the world economic system, however, is putting a bit of a dent in their plans: to them, however, this is just a bump on the road to empire. They don’t see the danger – to themselves – ahead.
This is the issue that will send Americans over the edge, and – unfortunately – only Ron Paul is talking about it. I had really hoped the left might wake up in time to mount an insurgent challenge in the Democratic presidential primaries, but today’s lefties (redubbed “progressives”) are too domesticated to even contemplate it. Would you expect a house cat to take down a mountain lion?
The paladins of the status quo are riding high, these days, but there are tremors shaking their world, and they’re a bit unsteady on their feet. One can only note that, the day after Mangu-Ward sneered at Paul’s chances, a Gallup poll was released showing him in a statistical dead heat with Barack Obama. Another poll showed him surpassing Bachmann nationally, and coming in with 13% in New Hampshire, nearly double his previous showing.
Let the cosmotarians smirk all they want: let them dredge up the alleged “dirt” on the Good Doctor, in coordination with their neocon friends, and go on Fox News to denigrate a decent and principled man. He’s making history: they are making background noise.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013





skulz fontaine
August 25th, 2011 at 9:15 pm
A tiny pebble tossed onto the surface of a still pond, ripples the entire pond. Dr. Ron Paul is hardly a pebble. Mangu-dangu, or whatever, is outclassed and should probably STFU.
Hercules
August 25th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
An even more significant problem, long-term, than the wars is mass immigration. This is another instance of the "hoi polloi" clearly desiring one sensible policy–the defense of our national borders, the husbanding our national resources and jobs, assimilation of newcomers–and our rulers imposing on us the exact opposite.
Of all the candidates, Ron Paul is one of the most wise to the immigration problem. He is against illegal immigration and amnesty and believes we need to do away with birthright citizenship. All very sensible ideas. We need to go further and end all immigration though.
Johnny in Wi.
August 25th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
Ron Paul is the intellectual and moral giant pulling this country back to sanity. He is tied with Obama and fighting for thr Republican nomination even though the neocon press, talk radio, and the liberal media have either ignored him or laughed at him. His main opponents are Romney and Perry . Mrs Bachman is a nice lady heading back to Minn.. Romney is already in a downward slide and Perry will implode. The neocon and countryclub elite begged Paul Ryan to get in and he wisely declined. That leaves Mrs. Palin and I think she will endore Ron Paul. That is a limb I am out on. Mrs Palin and her husband have a history of having libertarian views. I don't think she wants to run and put her large familly though all that again. Her polling isn't that good either. Ron Paul's issues on bringing the troops home now, auditing the Fed, and ending all foreign aid are endorsed by huge majorities in the polls. He has a huge group of committed supporters, and plenty of money. He runs circles around his opponets in debates. I give you the next President of the United States Dr. Ron Paul. The soldiers best friend.
RickR30
August 25th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
Nooo…not ms. mongu again. I'm barely recovering from having had the displeasure of seeing her video last time. I put her in the category of people whose names don't deserved to be mentioned. It'll just lead to people looking her up, reading her articles, which will give her bosses the impression that her ideas are worth something. "Reason" magazine? Is this one of those bizarro world conceptual warps where war means peace and idiocy means reason? No doubt they keep alleged Libertarians like ms. mogambo around, for a purpose. Their ridiculous ideas make idiotic neocon dogmas of eternal war and abuse of Americans at home seem rational–almost .
What's most most frustrating about mango and escaped psychiatric patient sauerkrauthammer is their agenda of reevaluation of all political values. They aren't willing to grant America what they're demanding for every other land on earth: democracy and free elections. It's the American people who will decide whether Ron Paul will ever be president not those idiots. Half a century old dictatorships are collapsing meanwhile America's democracy is degenerating into a dictatorship of the establishment in the guise of a two-party system.
Rulers have never been good at acknowledging their downfall. There was that moron bernanke who couldn't see the real estate collapse a day before it happened, Saddam's people couldn't see the American tanks standing two feet away, there's Ghaddafi and his son babbling about victory. The self-inflicted stupidity is supposed to convince Americans and the world that all is good and nothing will change and thus they can continue their nefarious agenda. We'll see about that…
Some Guy
August 25th, 2011 at 11:07 pm
Bravo, J.R., a pleasure to read for your writing ability alone.
Vincent Nunes
August 25th, 2011 at 11:17 pm
"Conventional wisdom" means whatever reaffirms the status quo; it has no relationship whatsoever with what's good for America.
b
Ron Paul isn't perfect by any means, but he is the only candidate concerned more about the interests of America over the interests of others.
montaigne
August 26th, 2011 at 1:01 am
Since it is glaringly obvious for anybody to recognize, that lies on everything – economy, wars, security steps – is in plain view, while most none the less play along, it can only mean one thing: everybody senses a forthcoming fundamental national crisis. One that most dare not speculate about, but on the contrary supports any public line (or lie) served to them as a NECESSITY!
When one gets to the point, where a faked life is NECESSARY you certainly are in trouble and in the mood for civil warfare. As a foreigner when could wish for the US to implode very soon and dramatically, but also on the grounds of respect for human life. Either the US population gets Ron Paul, or your whole brothel goes down!
Unfortunately the guys with the weapons tend to prefer the dramatic solutions anytime, anywhere.
Rich
August 26th, 2011 at 5:50 am
Reason Magazine – where noone has seen 'The Wall' (Pink Floyd) and liberty is a euphemism for drugging your kids into submission to assholes.
Generalissimo X
August 26th, 2011 at 6:46 am
reason magazine!? f that rag…my girlfriend made me watch bill maher the other week and that condescending a-hole gillespie was on espousing nafta as a good deal among other things. i was literally choking on my own rage and would have to fight the urge to physically assault this useful idiot of the nwo propaganda machine. ditto maher and jon stewart and all the rest. its people like this who take joy in their role as the status quo and who propagate the attitude that "others know what's best for us". they maintain the facade of debate and intelligent discourse when all they can do is advance the "popular" thinking or talking points they've been fed…the said part is they think they are original or intelligent. they are neither. me, i'll take being a lunatic ron paul supporter, conspiracy theorist and whatever other labels these sad bleating sheep want to bestow upon me. they are liars, actually traitors, to a free republic. it's because of useful idiots like them we have events like libya as they are great parroting our need to "do something" only years later (like iraq) say well mistakes were made but we couldn't have known…well you know, some of us do know. ahh i'm gonna go chew on some nails…so freakin angry.
Ira7Epstein
August 26th, 2011 at 7:33 am
The CW is correct about Ron Paul not having a chance to become president, but for the wrong reason. What is preventing Ron Paul from becoming president is those who determine what the CW is, those in power, will not allow him to become president. Suppose Ron Paul wins the Republican nomination for President. Further suppose it appears Ron Paul might win the general election. Do you think the power elite, (electronic voting machines), will not add some votes to the Obama column in key electoral states that would throw the election to Obama. Or if the vote count was close in a few key electoral states that the courts, a tool of the power elite, would not decide the issue in favor of Obama.
The status quo will not be preserved forever. It will not, however, be changed through voting or elections. The way the status quo will be overthrown in the United States is through a people power revolution similar to what occured in Egypt and Tunisia.
Jeremy Sapienza
August 26th, 2011 at 8:07 am
No, those ideas are not sensible, they are terrible, and human movement is not worse than war, even if we must grant that it is bad at all.
San Fernando Curt
August 26th, 2011 at 9:11 am
Outsiders – bad kids on the block – exist primarily to chip away at established order, look for cracks, widen them if the facade hides deceit, help shatter the structure entirely if it protects corruption. By shirking this pupose, Mangu-Ward and far too many like her reduce their brand of libertarianism to little more than theoretical arch-conservatism, seeking limited government only on economic terms. Because of that, because she is a libertarian figurehead, and because she appears just another suck-up so mindful of Washington's power gauges, it's difficult if not impossible for non-libertarians to take seriously its precepts. As long as she is where she is, she's not just a minus. She's a deficit.
Jaime
August 26th, 2011 at 9:22 am
It seems the US is reaching a point in which violent revolution is the only way for change given the stupidity of the elites. Their arrogance blinds them, and this will be their undoing. If a revolution were to happen, a lot of people will die, and most of them will be innocents. However, "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword" and all the decades in which the people at large either ignored conveniently or cheered the troops abroad for murdering other people and other children will come with a vengeance.
muggles
August 26th, 2011 at 10:05 am
Well done and important essay about the disease of statist culthink amoung beltwaytarians.
Reason has a long history of hiring non libertarians and evidently, teaching them a few catch phrases so they might pass for one if need be. Yet these nonlib hires aren't major talents or better writers, just journalisto ticket punchers. Remember Virginia Postrel, whose disgust for libetarians was papable in her prose? The Godess Mother of Reason paid libertarian haters.
That Mengu-Ward was a former Weekly Standard neocon hack is proof enough of her insincerity. Unless she has subsequently publicly disavowed her prior employer, she can't be any kind of real libertarian. Yet there she is, repping the alleged "libertarian" institution/magazine. Sad.
montaigne
August 26th, 2011 at 10:39 am
No, it is NOT just the elites that are stupid. The whole population is calmly participating in the worst maquerade of all mankind. "I will be better off!" The religion of the little man, who completely deserves to become much smaller! Washed off the face of reality! The sooner the better the American empire dissolves into its utterly meaningless pseudo reality – the better for real humans! For living beings!
Thomas L. Knapp
August 26th, 2011 at 10:47 am
Mangu-Ward neither "disparaged" Paul nor "mocked" Paul's chances of getting elected.
She simply pointed out that he isn't going to get elected, and asserted that he knows this and that therefore his campaign is about something other than getting elected. Or, to put it a different way, she asserted that Paul is neither stupid nor insane.
Most candidates' supporters would take their candidate being treated as smart and sane rather than stupid and insane as a compliment, or at worst "damning with faint praise." Paul's supporters take it as an affront. I'm not sure what that says about Paul's supporters, but surely it says, well, something.
James Leroy Wilson
August 26th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
It seems rather odd for a libertarian to mock Reason for holding libertarian positions on things like drugs. The "Beltway" libertarians DID screw up big time by not unanimously condemning the War on Iraq, and they should speak out on foreign policy more, but they've been pretty-good to great on most other issues.
Corey
August 26th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
excellent article, as usual, Justin.
Thomas Knapp, what can one say to the deluded (you), nothing is my guess, so here ya go: <>
liveload
August 26th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
End immigration? Here we go again with the thinly veiled white power bs. How do you propose that be accomplished? Lets leave aside the fact that our nation was created by human migration and the fact that every single one of us can trace their lineage back to somewhere other than north america. Lets just go with Ending Immigration. Explain that one.
RickR30
August 26th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
So what if this country has an immigrant past centuries ago. Should we thus be condemned to all eternity to let anyone in who can make it here, no questions asked, no worries?
RickR30
August 26th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
Oh, so we should be thankful that mambo is deciding for us who can and can't be president?
liveload
August 26th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
There is a process by which people can immigrate to this country already in place. The issue is volume. We need to be able to handle the volume of requests to immigrate in a timely and reasonable manner. The workflow for a request, its approvers, and oversight needs to make sense, work quickly, and be transparent, even if interaction is minimal at some levels. There's no need to keep people in limbo for months or years. I have no idea how you people who claim libertarian ethics can reconcile those ethics with the measures that would be necessary to "End Immigration". Does anyone ever consider that when they begin clamoring to "End Immigration"?
liveload
August 26th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
I've indulged your misdirection, so now answer the question. How does a "Libertarian" propose to "End Immigration". Tell me, I'm dying to know.
Thomas L. Knapp
August 26th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
liveload,
You ask, \”How does a \’Libertarian\’ propose to \’end immigration?\”
The answer is \”(s)he doesn\’t.\”
Libertarians don\’t agonize over the supposed miraculous powers of imaginary lines drawn on the ground by glorified street gangs.
Even deviationists like \”minarchist\” \”constitutionalist\” libertarians observe that the US Constitution enumerates no federal power to regulate immigration, and in fact prohibited even amending the Constitution to create such a power until 1808 (since which time no such amendment has been ratified).
Thomas L. Knapp
August 26th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Taking notice of the fact that someone isn't going to be elected president is not the same thing as "deciding" who can and can't be president.
No, you don't have to be thankful that Ms. Mangu-Ward is living in the real world. Better to direct your energy toward finding a way there yourself.
Corey
August 26th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
etard
RickR30
August 26th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
I don't know how a Libertarian would, but it shouldn't be too hard. Stop issuing some kinds of visas, end special deals with countries like Philippines whereby they all end up here, stop the work visa scams, make sure those who come here also leave. And that's just legal immigration. Plenty can be done about illegal immigration.
RickR30
August 26th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
How is it a fact when it hasn't happened yet? The arrogance of claiming to know who "isn't" going to be elected assumes that American's have no free will that it'll all go as planned by the establishment.
RickR30
August 26th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
I don't think the problem is that requests aren't being processed quickly enough. It's that we're approving too many legal immigrations and doing nothing but encourage illegal immigration. What immoral acts do you think Libertarians would endorse?
Jon
August 26th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
If ms. mangowhatsername came from The Weekly Standard she's no libertarian, she is a neocon.
Thomas L. Knapp
August 26th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
Logic's not your strong suit, is it?
Predicting the outcome of an election does require assumptions, but there are any number of different assumptions that could cover a prediction that Ron Paul won't be elected president.
One such assumption is that a system which has successfully evolved since at least as far back as the 1880s to select against Paul's type, will select against Paul's type.
That seems to be a safer assumption than the assumption that Americans' free will has changed radically in the last four years, but that that change remains hidden from view in polls, etc.
HWC
August 26th, 2011 at 7:38 pm
Can we just finally concede that the anti-nationhood Western elite policy of ignoring the porous borders and demonizing anyone who notices was nothing but a giant middle finger gleefully wagged in the face of middle and lower class whites? Candor is good for the soul.
liveload
August 26th, 2011 at 7:50 pm
You keep dancing around the issue. That still doesn't answer how you would "end immigration". There's still the issue of how you're going to enforce your so called "end" to immigration. People say they want small govt with less power, but yet they want them to have the power and money to be able to not only cutoff all legal immigration, but also to try and cut this country off from the outside world: e.g. Sealed land, sea, and air borders. You want less spending, less govt, yet you want to green-light that same govt to "end immigration" without the slightest thought into how they would actually go about doing it. On top of that you also acquiesce to even more invasive domestic police powers, as they will inevitably require a vast amount of it in order to ferret out all the "illegals" that have made it in, despite your billions spent sealing the borders. It will be a security and defense contractor feeding frenzy, and at the end of the day the ONLY thing you will be left with is a giant bill for yet another massive government boondoggle. You wont be any safer, more secure, and you will still be troubled by the sight of BROWN PEOPLE popping up here and there in America.
Thomas L. Knapp
August 26th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
Your syllogism fails.
Perhaps Ms. Mangu-Ward was a neocon and changed her mind, hence her departure from The Weekly Standard and arrival at Reason.
Or perhaps Ms. Mangu-Ward took the first, or most lucrative, job offer she received upon graduation from college, then over time found a path to a publication more to her ideological liking.
Not that it matters. If she'd said anything bad about Ron Paul, her ideological bona fides might certainly be worthy of inspection. Instead, she treated him favorably, respectfully and realistically, and is now being savaged by Paul cultists for having an opinion on him beyond genuflecting to his image and proclaiming her desire to bear his children.
RickR30
August 26th, 2011 at 9:31 pm
The nice thing about assumptions is that you get to pick that ones that suit your conclusion.
Paul is doing quite well in polls.
RickR30
August 26th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
You finally got around to telling us what you see as the issue, I think. Like I said, I don't claim to speak for Libertarians, and I don't have a problem with government fulfilling the few roles it actually should. I don't see it as growth of government, rather re-direction of currently misused resources. And this isn't about safety, security (although that's a positive side-effect), let alone the sight of brown people- not everyone is obsessed with race. It is about the government enforcing the laws that are already there, oh, and about that little issue called jobs.
Thomas L. Knapp
August 26th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
Paul is averaging 9.7% in GOP primary polls. In 2008, he averaged 6.5%. That's an interesting datum, but nothing resembling a sea change.
Another interesting datum is that his poll performance so far this election season has been fairly consistent, swirling around in between 5% and 10% the entire time, basically consistently circling its own margin of error.
What that means, basically, is that everyone who's going to be for Paul is already for him — and 9.7%, while it's pretty damn impressive for an anti-establishment candidate, isn't enough for the plurality required to garner convention delegates in winner-take-all primary states.
You don't have to like it. Facts are facts whether you like them or not.
JLS
August 26th, 2011 at 10:23 pm
"prophesizing a German victory in Europe"
Prophesying Justin, not prophesizing. Prophets prophesy, their prophesyings make up the prophecy or prophesies.
liveload
August 27th, 2011 at 4:46 am
Answer the question asshole
Tom L
August 27th, 2011 at 6:24 am
And here's a fact for you Tom, his numbers are rising and there's still plenty of time before the primary season to see what happens. Moreover, the 15% barrier is the glass ceiling of politics, and regionally Paul is beginning to see numbers in that range. Getting the 1st 15% is hard, gettting the next 15 is orders of magnitude easier. Given the soft support of Perry and Romney I'd say the race is seriously up in the air. If Paul starts polling in the high teens in the early primary states in the next 60 days I better see you promoting these facts.
There is a fundamental difference between saying most likely Ron Paul will not be the candidate, it is another to state it as a certainty. That is the source of the outrage and the anger. Knowing the animosity between the Koch's and the Rothbardians, having their lackeys out in the media disparaging Paul (and she did) at this point is part of a script that's been running for 20 years now. That's the more interesting commentary.
Moreover, your vigorous defense of your involvement in an issue that I know does not interest you, as one of those good and pure libertarians, smacks of something else. Ron Paul's been a touchstone for those 'good and pure libertarians' for too long, with people still carrying a grudge from the 88 LP convention. Justin touched on it in the article from a number of different angles.
I notice the only time you mention Ron Paul (and I do stop by your blog still after all these years) is to disparage his supporters as delusional or reiterate that you're not a supporter.
Ta,
Tom L
August 27th, 2011 at 6:27 am
Note your own language… cultists, savaged, genuflecting.
Grow up Tom. You've never liked RP, have always been suspect of his motives and it rankles you that he's now the standard bearer for your intellectual movement.
Confirmation bias has set in.
Pengu-Ward was dismissive, not as bad as some would make out, but she was a far cry from respectful. Just because you think Ron Paul's both a rube and a bad libertarian, doesn't make her comments any less suspect.
Ta,
Tom L
August 27th, 2011 at 6:31 am
I will agree that Fascist Florida is going to be a real issue for Paul. He'll offset that by winning Texas, where he outpolls Perry.
Paul's biggest hurdle in the primary is his lack of support with women. That's where the polling numbers suggest he has the most ground to gain.
He also has name recognition issues still, regardless of your assertion and the fact that more Repugs would not vote for him vs. Obama than any other current major candidate is distressing, ie. that 11% of repugs would vote for Obama than vote for Paul. They do love their war and drug prohibition after all.
Ta,
Thomas L. Knapp
August 27th, 2011 at 7:22 am
Tom L,
"If Paul starts polling in the high teens in the early primary states in the next 60 days I better see you promoting these facts."
Or what? You'll take away my birthday or something? ;-)
Thomas L. Knapp
August 27th, 2011 at 7:36 am
Tom L,
"You've never liked RP."
That is demonstrably incorrect/untrue. I very stridently and very publicly liked Ron Paul for many years, as you well know.
"he's now the standard bearer for your intellectual movement"
The rumors of my conversion to conservatism are inaccurate.
Tom L
August 27th, 2011 at 8:07 am
No. But, you'll further marginalize yourself and your opinions. Don't be an ass. If you want to be taken seriously be fair.
Ta,
Tom L
August 27th, 2011 at 8:20 am
Paul is the standard bearer for the politically rising strain of libertarianism. The kind that is viable given the realities of the current set of demographics. He's not a conservative, though that's how he presents himself for political purposes.
What he is is the only libertarian who has been able to present himself in an acceptable way to a large number of people who aren't. That base is a lot bigger than I think you're giving him credit for. The national average polling numbers at this point are meaningless in an absolute sense. All that matters is the trends and the trends are on Paul's side when viewed fairly.
Your own post above detailing his nat'l % polling numbers are misleading. He was polling at 6.5% nationally in May! Not 4 years ago. Moving up to nearly 10% in this time frame is excellent. Does it make him likely to be nominated? No. But, with the issues moving in his direction and the trends on his side, I would say that the chance is a crap load better than "NO FRIGGIN' WAY" and that's the attitude that Pengu-Ward portrayed.
Listening to the noise coming out of the MSM about Ron Paul is like listening to the worry-warts in the Gold market constantly screaming that the next smackdown in price is just around the corner, when the data suggests a sea-change is underway. The power-elite are still very powerful and are dangerous opponents, but they are not invincible and are closer to defeat than it looks to the casual observer.
That is precisely what Raimondo's article was about and your coming in here to remind us of how powerful the status quo is serves as prima facia evidence of his point.
Ta,
Generalissimo X
August 27th, 2011 at 8:33 am
your condescension is revolting and so is the pointlessness of your posts and position. you seem to be happy to defend a bunch of elitist msm schills who see fit to tell us all who we should vote for and what a viable candidate is. i think the question i posit is who or what do you support? obama? rick perry? where do you stand? i'd venture that you support the same status quo that has literally destroyed our republic. and really, you have to ask yourself why you support those who are the problem and not someone who poses as a possible move towards real solutions. i'm not interested in "isms" but who or what do you think will get this country back on track or at least moving in the right direction? i don't like to get into name calling but i'll make an exception as frankly you seem like some self aggrandizing ahole just like gillespie and all those pathetic pseudo-intellectual phonies at reason magazine.
Thomas L. Knapp
August 27th, 2011 at 8:46 am
Generalissimo X,
"i think the question i posit is who or what do you support? obama? rick perry?"
None of the Above.
"where do you stand?"
Against the state.
"i'd venture that you support the same status quo that has literally destroyed our republic."
Interesting venture. No, I don't support the status quo (or your republic).
RickR30
August 27th, 2011 at 9:45 am
LOL.
Generalissimo X
August 27th, 2011 at 10:23 am
thanks for the reply. you've pretty much confirmed that you have no point whatsoever. it's really easy to criticize a man with ideas (paul) but you offer nothing in the way of solutions. against the state? yeah, that's specific, constructive and will surely get us on the right track.
Thomas L. Knapp
August 27th, 2011 at 10:40 am
Generalissimo X,
"it's really easy to criticize a man with ideas (paul)"
Yes, it is. But I haven't done so here. And neither did Mangu-Ward do so on television.
"but you offer nothing in the way of solutions"
I offer all kinds of things in the way of solutions — just not in comment threads where those things are not topical.
The subject of the article I'm commenting on is Mangu-Ward "disparaging" Ron Paul and "mocking" his chances of being elected president. My comment on the matter is that she did no such thing, and that the article is therefore moonshine, balderdash and poppycock to the extent that it relies on the claim that she did.
As far as "get[ting] us on the right track" is concerned, I'm not sure what "us" you're referring to, and I seriously doubt that you and I would agree on what "track" is "right" in any case. But like I said, that's another subject entirely, and irrelevant to this article or my stated opinions on this article.
csmallo
August 27th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Culture matters. Importing the 3rd world just makes us poorer. Diversity does not work. It has never worked.
csmallo
August 27th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
Immigration was shut down for several periods in our history. Most notably from the 1920s to the 1960s. It didn't harm us then.
Null Void
August 27th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
Ah, the old paleotarian vs. cosmotarian debate. I am fairly new to this, but I know enough to have an opinion.
I have, in the past few years, grown as weary of Reason as Mr. Raimondo. Something about Matt Welch rubs me the wrong way, though I have no ill will to Gillespie for whatever reason. Mr. Welch also did a nice book on McCain. Anyway, the general line seems to be this: that cosmotarians are culturally libertine and irreligious, quite alright with permitting people to degrade the moral fiber of this country and deregulate-but have no issues with the government per se, and are objectively pro-war. Usually, their general pro-choice stance is implied to naturally lead to a support for war. (Never mind that Rothbard was pro-choice and anti-war, like myself.) Ron Paul is either seen as a long shot at best, and a fake libertarian at worst. The paleotarians on the other hand, are either knuckledragging racists want to impose traditional morals on the country or real Americans, but are deeply concerned about the fact we are killing people overseas. Implied is that, even if they aren't as morally or socially tolerant as those darn cosmos, they at least are against war and the ruling elite. Furthermore, to criticize Ron Paul for any actions past or present is reprehensible, a smear campaign to destroy America's last real hope for peace.
This is a false dichotomy: what about people like myself, who hate the Kochtopus as much as any paleotarian, but finds the paleotarian alternative wanting at best, and in some respects worse than the disease. Given the choice between Reason and LRC; Mises Institute vs Cato, while not rejecting any outright, my general attitude is to declare a pox on both houses. It is possible to not be entirely gung ho about Paul without being "objectively pro-war".
Don't misunderstand me: I respect Paul, as a statesman and as a human being. It doesn't follow I must endorse him. While not settling on either anarchy or minarchy as of yet, I am more and more sympathetic to SEK3's view that support for any politician (even Paul) is objectively pro-war and pro-state.
Just something to chew on.
The Judge
August 27th, 2011 at 9:50 pm
Keep it up white people. You all are so stupid that you continue to spew your racist hatred towards black people while the hispanics are slowly taking over your neighborhoods, daughters, and your country. I will be there to see the look on your face when it all flips. It's inevitable and YOU know it. See you on the other side……IF you make it.
liberranter
August 28th, 2011 at 12:33 am
SPOT ON, Ira! All of this talk of electoral victory for Ron Paul is nothing but wasted intellectual energy and verbal flatulence. As you point out, voting is the ultimate act of political masturbation, a sucker's game in which those afflicted with either terminal wishful thinking or terminal gullibility make morons of themselves thinking that they can "change things from within the system." GET REAL!
As you also point out, change WILL NOT come "from within," but from the system's own collapse due to its own dysfunction and inertia, just like its Soviet predecessor – a historical precedent that the arrogant morons ruling over us failed to internalize or learn from.
Teshia
August 28th, 2011 at 10:10 pm
This was an excellent article, thank you! I also made sure to post this on Reason's Facebook page.
Tony
August 29th, 2011 at 4:39 am
To jump in here as an anarcho-capitalist who supports Ron Paul to continue teaching people about libertarianism, Thomas L. Knapp's being "against the state" IS the solution.
There is a whole library full of literature on how a stateless society would be the solution to current problems. There are books full of reasons why those like Knapp don't think Ron Paul's ideas will solve the problems.
Rather than expect him to explain it to you all, it may be better for you to start educating yourself.
Texas Chris
August 29th, 2011 at 5:53 am
I thought I was reading Antiwar.com, not Antiimmigration.com.
Who cares what the color of the country's skin is? I'm white, but why should it bother me if there are more blacks, more mexicans, more asians…?
We need the BEST to come here. We used to have an American work ethic that was the envy of the developed world. Now, to get that, you have to hire an Asian, or a Mexican, or some other demographic fresh from another country, who really wants to work, who has the fire in the belly.
I don't give a damn if their english is borken. Can they work? Will they bust their hump? Will they show up and get it done?
Hired.
And if I have to move my shop overseas to get the job done under budget and on time, then so be it.
Texas Chris
August 29th, 2011 at 5:58 am
You have to start somewhere. If Ron Paul were cheated out of a landslide victory the people will be pushed one step closer to revolt. Another 4 years of Obama and a few "doner" states like Texas (and most of the heartland) will be ready to secede.
Hard working productive people will not tolerate being the wetnurses to a bunch of lazy socialists on the East and West coasts.
Ron can win. Will they LET him win? Who knows. But cheating a popular candidate out of his victory only angers the mob. And for us, that's a good thing, win or lose.
Texas Chris
August 29th, 2011 at 6:02 am
Texas announced they (Repub Party of Texas) are NOT going to have a straw poll.
In their email they were obviously worried that Dr. Paul would win over Perry. They are CONVINCED Dr. Paul would beat Romney.
You'll get total silence from Texas until the primary.
Texas Chris
August 29th, 2011 at 6:04 am
If my reading of the constitution is accurate, the US Government only controls the NATURALIZATION of immigrants, as in for voting purposes. The power to control entry is reserved to the states, as well as state citizenship (which we consider residency, I presume).
Texas Chris
August 29th, 2011 at 6:10 am
If the non-agression principle is the heart of libertarianism, and Mangu-Ward opposes Dr. Paul's views in general, or any one major point specifically, then how can she really be a libertarian?
Ron Paul's view is that the government should not and cannot commit violence outside of self defense. To disagree with a Ron Paul position is to say government CAN, or SHOULD, commit preimtive violence, and in the disagreement one must thereby relinquish the libertarian title.
A. G. Phillbin
August 29th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
I will propose one thing, and one thing only, to end illegal immigration (ending legal immigration is a mere effort of political will, but is probably unnecessary): seize the assets of employers of illegal aliens. you start by placing liens against their property upon indictment. This allows them to continue to use that property, but not to sell it, or borrow against it. If acquitted, the property is fully restored; if convicted, it is seized, and sold at a public auction. If just a few employers lose their property over such actions, word will spread, and employers will quit hiring illegal immigrants. The illegal immigrants, seeing that they can no longer find work, will go home, with little or no effort on the part of ICE. No $8 million per mile walls, no stupid Arizona type "your papers, please" laws, etc. A small number of property seizures (after a trial), the govt. makes a small profit, 7 the illegals return home, possibly to overthrow the Mexican government.
Of course, the price of vegetables and fruits will rise, and the cost of a restaurant meal will rise even further, along with any other services currently being performed by such labor. but economics is such a dismal science! (-:
Richard
August 29th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
Jealousy is ugly. More twenty something babes would do Paul (though is he too old-school to agree) than Gillespie or Knapp. It drives 'em insane. It's funny as hell to watch. Keep yappin, Knapp, I love it.