Former ‘Antiwar’ Leader Shills for Obama
Unwanted advice from Sixties leftover Todd Gitlin
The last person we need to hear from on the state of the antiwar movement is surely Todd Gitlin, the has-been "New" Left leader now a college professor of something-or-other. After all, it was none other than Gitlin, in the run up to the invasion of Iraq – and the biggest antiwar demonstrations since his own heyday – who took to the pages of Mother Jones magazine and criticized the antiwar movement for not "rebuking" Saddam Hussein. He was appalled at the signs at antiwar rallies calling for "No Sanctions" and "No Bombing." Sure, the sanctions were "a humanitarian disaster for the country’s civilians," wrote Gitlin, but –echoing the claims made by Washington – he averred that the Iraqi government "bears some responsibility for that disaster." This was nonsensical back then, and it is even more so now that we know there never were any "weapons of mass destruction," as the US government claimed, and therefore no justification for the sanctions.
And what, pray tell, would an "antiwar" movement that refused to oppose bombing amount to, exactly? What universe is Gitlin living in? The same universe he’s living in today – one in which a former antiwar "leader" has turned into a cheerleader for "liberal" imperialism of the sort practiced by his hero, Barack Obama. This is clear from the content of his latest screed, a tract purporting to explain why the antiwar movement is in the doldrums.
Here is Gitlin’s explanation for why the antiwar marches stopped:
"They stopped partly because the antiwar leadership was barely cobbled together, with some conspicuous quarters reluctant to speak harshly of the multi-murderous Saddam Hussein. The movement’s drawing power was limited from the start, and then, once the war was on in earnest, it felt — realistically — that it had run smack against the brick wall of George Bush’s manic pigheadedness. Demonstrators are unlikely to invest their energies in what look from the start like very lost causes. And the demonstrations also tailed off because the mainstream media didn’t pay attention — refused to pay attention. The story line they were promoting was: America kicks ass, new era begins!"
Oddly – or, maybe not so oddly – the President is not even mentioned in his piece. That would be a strange omission for someone sincerely interested in opposing the imperialist designs of the present White House occupant: however, coming from Gitlin – a declared supporter of this administration – that’s hardly a surprise.
"The military attacks now underway, in Libya and elsewhere, will mainly be fought by elite units — Special Forces, Navy SEALs, drone commanders — operating from far-flung American bases, without any civilian call-up. Any revulsion by well-informed citizens against what they do is counterbalanced by popular satisfaction at their successes, by their virtual invisibility, and the unpleasantness of their intended targets. These are not recipes for popular commotion — let alone opposition."
All this was true under George W. Bush: and yet Gitlin and the Obama cultists were massing in the streets, back then, and frothing at the mouth. Somehow, however, these same frothing masses are imbued with "popular satisfaction" by the "successes" of our present commander-in-chief.
Gitlin lists all the reasons the antiwar movement might be losing fuel – a volunteer army, the "unpleasantness" of the Taliban and al-Qaeda, the economic downturn – except the primary one: a Democrat is in the White House. Not just any Democrat, mind you, but one elected with the enthusiastic support of the party’s "progressive" base, whose inauguration was hailed even by the far-left Workers World Party (WWP) as "historic."
I mention Workers World because Gitlin has been pursuing a vendetta against them since the Bush era, when they led some of the biggest antiwar demonstrations in this country. These were the "left-wing sectarians" he attacked in his Mother Jones piece – and yet he and the Workers Worlders have much more in common than either is capable of imagining. Gitlin hailed Obama’s election triumph — as did Workers World newspaper: "The election victory of Barack Obama will go down in history as a triumphant step forward in the struggle against racism and national oppression in the U.S." WWP honcho Larry Holmes exulted in the "elation" and "feeling of liberation" evoked by Obama’s victory: "The feeling on the streets of cities large and small across the U.S. on election night was that now, anything is possible, and it is."
Both the "left-wing sectarians" and the oh-so-reasonable "moderate" Gitlin wound up promoting the same story line: Obama kicks ass, new era begins!
After a year of Obama-ism, while Gitlin was over his "sorely needed moments of exulting and exhaling," and somewhat disappointed on a few minor points, he was still largely satisfied with his hero’s performance. No mention was made, in this piece for the "Progressive Book Club," of the President’s steady escalation of the twin wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan, which were well underway.
Now he pops up in Salon, the online repository of limousine liberalism, full of unsolicited advice, basically blaming conditions outside anyone’s control for the complete self-dissolution of the former "antiwar" movement. A more self-interested, self-exculpatory and utterly dishonest screed was never written:
"It was hard to summon the will, the clarity, the intensity, the downright buoyancy of a street movement when one harbored a fear — sometimes acknowledged, sometimes not — that the victors in the case of an American defeat would be foul. In Afghanistan, they would be the burqa-enforcing Taliban committed to barring girls from school. As for ‘Iraqi Freedom,’ Iraq with a zeroed-out American presence looked more like civil war between Shia fanatics and Ba’athist holdovers, garnished with torture."
He compares this to the outcome of the war in Vietnam, which, he avers, was inevitably going to end in a Communist victory:
"During the Vietnam War, when the antiwar movement was challenged with the question — meant to be rhetorical — How can we leave? our common reply was, On ships. In the case of Vietnam, that was the right and sufficient answer. The aftermath of that hideous war was always going to be awful — and it was going to be the same kind of awfulness whether the United States accepted elections to unify the country in 1956, as the Geneva Accord required; or the U. S. had withdrawn in 1963, when Kennedy flirted with the idea; or not until 1975, as it came to pass. The Vietnamese Communists were always going to win, were going to reunify the country, were going to install a Communist government in the South, were going to set up so-called reeducation camps and the whole apparatus of dictatorship."
Note, first of all, that there’s no attribution of "foulness" to the prospect of a Communist victory. Although Gitlin acknowledges the Vietnamese Communist regime as a dictatorship, it gets less of a rhetorical lashing than the "foul" and "burqa-enforcing" Taliban, and there is none of the nuanced ambiguity, the on-the-other-hand faux-"thoughtfulness" on exhibition in his treatment of the current wars. Hanoi’s horrific repression is written off to the inevitable March of Progress History, and duly dispensed with.
Yet one could credibly rewrite the last sentence of the above cited paragraph as follows:
The Afghan Taliban were always going to win: they’re going to take back their country, install an Islamic government, enforce Sharia law and set up the whole apparatus of dictatorship.
In short, the victory of the Taliban seems no less inevitable than that of the Vietnamese commies: in the long run, we’ll be out and the country will revert back to its historic condition of brutal authoritarianism, and poverty-stricken backwardness. Yet Gitlin implies that withdrawal from Afghanistan – called for by those "who lack a tragic sense" – is not a moral option:
"How can we leave? our common reply was, On ships. In the case of Vietnam, that was the right and sufficient answer."
In the case of Vietnam, but not in the cases of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia – because these are Obama’s wars, and nothing must get in the way of the President’s domestic agenda. "Progressives" of Gitlin’s ilk have made their bargain with Beelzebub. Why won’t they just admit it?
As for Gitlin: this washed up has-been’s decline into ideological senility isn’t a pretty picture. He should spare us the spectacle of watching a 60s "radical" turn into a cheerleader for the 21st century equivalent of Lyndon Baines Johnson. Do us – and yourself – a favor, Todd, and take a vow of silence.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013
- Boycott Israel? – May 9th, 2013
- Carla del Ponte’s Faux Pas – May 7th, 2013





MvGuy
July 21st, 2011 at 9:39 pm
We all fell ,under the spell of Mr."O" and hisTrojan Whores….. Hope, Ya that was it…..along with family values… Not quite enough value to get a grilled cheese sandwich….. We tried, but were deceived, The first pick was the stab….. Senior Raimondo fell for it , him too…!! It was the "O" or the bomba guy… Some two parties….. Some system..!!
Jamal
July 21st, 2011 at 11:39 pm
Obama or if you wish Mr. "O" is a liar so he was when he started the big "O" which when you look at this alphabet is a empty “O” with a big hole as a “hope”. Hope per say.., in theoretical terms.., is only a word based on hope.., is a word which have no meaning but hope itself.., but in reality if hope is not put into practical terms then it will remain as a “hope”, a wishful thinking, a mangle of dreams that solely based on “hope”.
Here.., I don’t care if big “O” is Muslim sunny or Muslims whatever, or for that matter if he is Christian orthodox or Christians whatever, or communist or socialist for that matter which by having said that I think he is nothing.., not even knowing where his standings are.., proving the fact is the war in Libya where the Barbarians.., the illegitimate sons of Saudis and Arab Emirates been recognized by Hillary Clinton.., the US government official from the US democratic party where there is no democracy and there never been a democratic thoughts been coming out of this party., this party is sold to Goldman Sachs and Chase managed by AIPAC and the relevancy to the facts are Senator Kerry, Feinstein, Pelosi, Rockefeller and others whom are more engaged in making plans for wars profiting from it then anything ells, the other part of that big empty “O”.., is for saving these tyrants (Saudis and Arab Emirates) falsifying it using big words as saving the Libyan peoples lives by bombing Libya as US/NATO did in Iraq ..,
The gruesome photos and other documents showing the Barbarians killing and torture where CIA personnel are active helping these Barbarians is yet another proof and should be the proof that what is the leftovers of the left and their standing with Obama is the support of these Barbarians.., it should also be a proof that left hypocrisy is not about the truth but rather a fact in being and supporting the US and NATO wars where the left theories ends to support what is right for a nation and what is wrong as a war.
In the other hand non of the left from Trotskyism to Marxism or Leninism.., nor the principals in democracy.., nor the wording democratic would support what US and NATO capitalism doing to Arab nations or others for that matter. Here.., although the movement is called “international community” but is solely based on US/NATO militarism regimes where the entire matter is based on capitalism system and its “interests” whereby the system (capitalism in its entire form).., by now.., forced into using religious barbarians to achieve its goal against all kind of socialism even the kind in Libya or Syria or the freedom of Palestinians.
This is a pure racial biased thoughts by the hypocrites within the left lingering on a falsified democracy hoping for a “O” whom is hoping that someday it will fill up that hole with perhaps another big “hope“.
mezenc
July 22nd, 2011 at 12:19 am
My daughter was in the antiwar movement for 6 years but no longer. I always told her I disagreed with marching and protesting. I remembered the Vietnam years: the government used the antiwar people as a foil. Better that our leaders should stand there naked in their bloodthirsty, ruthless wars and warmongering and have no foil to deflect onto. So many people are small-minded and impatient. They get hostile towards other people out of their own orneriness. My mother was like that, "What's he/she carrying on about?" Couldn't be bothered to know anything about the issue but annoyed, always so annoyed.
One thing that will stop these wars. If those same ornery people get the picture that Social Security and Medicare are in jeopardy.
This is the fallacy of libertarianism, in my opinion. Those popular social entitlements are essential to protecting freedom. Whatever the politicians succeed in chiseling out of them in this phony debt ceiling crisis will only go for more wars surveillance.
montaigne
July 22nd, 2011 at 12:28 am
Remember the socalled student rebellion in the western world by the end of the 1960'es? A great many of the leaders from that time is like mr. Gitlin. It was the beginning of something quite new. You won by manipulation. I remember from a university back then, that we studensts were formed into groups, and the "avantgarde leaders" manipulated then the groups to whatever consent they wanted. If somebody in a group had unfitting questions, the questioner was taken out and rehearsed endlessly until he had grasped the message that was to be forwarded.
So the life lesson from that time was that manipulation is the basic tool of political government. Today one find such types in many leading positions. But now, that they are mainstream, opposition is wrong. That is some sort of historical reality BEYOND reason or conviction. Sort of neo-marxist "scientific" abuse.
That infamous rebellion of the sixties were exactly characterized by lack of substance and plenty of opinions. An what do we find now with present leader types? Opinions and manipulation and no substance. A sick culture without real personal convictions, and more formed by stimuli, like Pavlov's dogs. Not a great civilization by any measure. Resembling the decadent Rome and its manipulated peuble.
Robert Brager
July 22nd, 2011 at 1:16 am
Who's this 'we'? Obama had a voting record. Some of us actually consulted it. It wasn't pretty. With whom he and his wife liked to pass the time (James Crown, Chicago Council on Global Affairs) was a matter of public record. Personally, I think the policy trajectory of the Obama administration was for the most part predictable. One had only to look.
Wootie Berster
July 22nd, 2011 at 2:03 am
So, this Gitlin character was concerned Iraq would result in sectarian violence and torture? (Irony alert:) Good thing we got in there then, huh. Wouldn't want to have them Iraqis torturing themselves would we! That would be SO nasty!
TruthSeeker
July 22nd, 2011 at 2:16 am
Got any "Change" Gov?
Rosemary Molloy
July 22nd, 2011 at 3:50 am
Seems to me that a major reason for the present lassitude of the anti-war movement is never noticed, let alone mentioned. Most of the "liberals" I know, including those in my own family, get a lovely glow from supporting Obama. After all, he's African American, isn't he? Doesn't that prove how very open-minded and, yes, liberal I can be? And black people, by their very nature are more noble and pure than whites, so surely, O. is planning–soon now, very soon–to show his true nature and stop the wars, beef up social programs, and turn the banksters out.
It's slightly more subtle–not by much–but it seems to me that's as racist an attitude as the traditional kind. And it's a lot less trouble than taking to the streets.
Wolfgang9
July 22nd, 2011 at 4:13 am
Compared to the US occupiers, IMHO, Saddam H. was a nanny!!
When Saddam killed a few Hundered with some reason, even if only for just staying in power, the US troops killed hundreds of thousands for no better reason than having access to good oil and having a military base close to Iran, Russia and China,
W9
Bob D
July 22nd, 2011 at 4:53 am
I was against the Vietnam war. And it was more urgent to me than these prepetual wars nowaday as I was draftable. But At least you could rationalize a national interest (albeit weakly) in fighting there. We did make it a little tougher for our communist foes to take hold there. As an American this caused my feelings to be a little mixed. And sure we lost, but so did Goldwater. Can anyone say his candidacy had no influence?
Can anything about these perpetual wars be in our national interest? Even a weak rationalization? Seems to me an end to these wars (a trillion a year) and all the indirect costs of maintaining soldiers & nationbuilding (1/2 trillion a year) would solve our spending problems. Isn't that in our national interest?
Matt
July 22nd, 2011 at 6:02 am
I'm hoping this was a sarcastic comment because if not then you are an idiot.
The invasion and occupation of Iraq was one of the most immoral and strategically stupid actions the U.S. government has ever undertaken, but that does not change the fact that Saddam Hussein was a monster. "…killed a few Hundred…" Try a few hundred thousand and invaded two countries, massacred his own people, and sponsored terrorists.
That still doesn't justify what the Bush administration did by invading, but your comment is just mind-numbingly stupid.
paul
July 22nd, 2011 at 6:34 am
Znet's Gilchar is another 'lefty' turned warmonger.
paul
July 22nd, 2011 at 6:36 am
Do you ever ask yourself why the commies were supposedly your foe? Were they? Or was that too manipulated? Ask yourself this: who did more harm in Southeast Asia? The commies? Or us, while fighting the Commies (and you can add Pol Pot to OUR tab).
Truther
July 22nd, 2011 at 6:41 am
Gitlin's descent is complete.
And the "Left" that entertains interventionism in certain cases is neither Left nor anti-interventionist. How can one justify an attack by a great imperial power on a small country. The death and destruction are bound to be enormous as the attacked and occupied strive to free themselves from the occupiers who then use all the mighty weapons at their disposal to enforce the conquest.
I am afraid that much of the Left (from pwogs to WWP) has bought into "humanitarian" imperialism which makes them "objectively," as they say, enemies of the peoples of the developing world – and by the way, of the poor working people of the US who "volunteer" to fight in these wars.
At the moment the "anti-interventionism" of the Libertarians and Paleos is far more consistent than that of much of the "Left," although there are prominent exceptions.
montaigne
July 22nd, 2011 at 7:26 am
Ah! Let us not forget Matt, WHO helped him militarily – also to commence a war against Iran? Delivering poison gas (a completely forbidden war instrument) to him for use against his Iranian opponents? Now what would some nuthead learn from those lessons? Which type of humans did he later on copy in his behaviour? Mmmh? What did he learn about the value of laws, morality, truthfulness? Who helped that possible monster into being a full-fledged monster?
If you miss words, I shall help youd: Even bigger monsters developing monsters abroad for own whims of the moment. Always ready to sack their own friends. Never speaking honestly, facing accountability. Nor developing good, honest people, but those with a wink and crossed fingers and hidden understandings. That is the palace of modern America, I refer to! It's great civilisationary role in hoistory: Never again tolerate dishonest liars, justice avoiding leaders, unscrupolous torturers and killers! Let them play their kind of democracy games at asylums!
WashingtonDC goddamn
July 22nd, 2011 at 7:32 am
"When Ms Progressive Met Mr Military." Turns out to be a true match made in hell.
WashingtonDC goddamn
July 22nd, 2011 at 7:39 am
MOTHER JONES: Progressive and Pro-War. Please recall Kevin Drum praising the Obama wars.
Edward
July 22nd, 2011 at 7:41 am
It's called intellectual conceit. The man still wants to be relevant and he has noticed how the Govt and Media have taken full advantage of the ignorance of the public. He's just jumping on the bandwagon.
Does anyone really believe that in an Iraqi,Iranian,Afgani or Libyan there is an American just waiting to get out?
We bawl about the Sudan but we don't go to live there nor have we any sense of their history from actual experience.
Can Gaddafi or Saddam crimes compare to the crimes we have and are still committing? He talks about Special Forces etc, conducting their activities but does he address that these activities are illegal by all standards to begin with?
Gitlin is typical If he has a common cold he probably wouldn't know what to do but yet when another man has a cold,he's ready with a list of remedies.
ML3
July 22nd, 2011 at 10:29 am
Last time I checked, Vietnam was Communist. But they're Communists we like bcause we can use them to annoy China
ML3
July 22nd, 2011 at 10:35 am
…and were you really concerned about what he did to Iraqis, Iranians, Kuwaitis, etc, until Bush got his boner for war against him, and the MSM alerted America to the fact that he was the "New Hitler" and something had to be done? No, only when the propaganda blitz was begun 24-7 were we suddenly motivated to really hate him and want him done away with. Although the US knew and didn't care for decades what Saddam was doing…
Richard Estes
July 22nd, 2011 at 10:56 am
Odd that you don't mention that Gitlin is a Zionist, who has also condemned antiwar activists for linking opposition to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with support for the Palestinians.
I tend to think that he is a classic example of a Zionist liberal who supports the "war on terror" because he can't conceive of an alternative that is anything other than anti-Zionist.
Chris Moore
July 22nd, 2011 at 11:18 am
Todd Gitlin is the author of The Chosen Peoples: America, Israel, and the Ordeals of Divine Election, a book about the “unbreakable” ties between the United States and Israel.
Gitlin is, and always has been, a double agent working for the subversive Zionist agenda, which back in the 60’s masked itself as an “antiwar” and “civil rights” movement, and used hard leftism as its Trojan horse, not unlike the Bolsheviks.
Liberals need to come to terms with the fact that statist-leftism when mixed with “liberals” like Gitlin is nothing but a murderous, ideological Zionism-serving racket, and has always been.
Why do you suppose George Orwell named the pseudo-“opposition” and “revolutionary” double agent actually working for Big Brother and the Party in his novel 1984 'Emanuel Goldstein'?
guest
July 22nd, 2011 at 2:00 pm
As he got further from the draft and Vietnam, Todd Gitlin found he could start to endorse wars. "Pull out and there will still be avoidable suffering." Go in and there will even be more. Happens every time.
I have found no US wars to endorse since, and including, Vietnam.
kwibono
July 22nd, 2011 at 2:23 pm
Richard Estes! Delighted to find you again! Just put a shortcut to your site on my dekstop, you'll hear more from me soon.
Todd Gitlin: a turd in a 3pc suit. Dunno how he got a rep as a antiwar radical, but since mid 70s nothing but a fink. A rat.
Obama: in spring 2008 I created a campaign button: Obama 2008: Run Tom Run.
…This from the preceding comment is totally accurate: >Gitlin is, and always has been, a double agent working for the subversive Zionist agenda…<
But the rest is confusion. In the present crisis, biases acquired from decades of immersion in Cold War propaganda need to be jettisoned if any progress is to be made.
Hondo69
July 22nd, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Some people's core values change with the tides.
Chris Moore
July 22nd, 2011 at 3:50 pm
Communism always was a Trojan horse for other evil, thieving, murderous, rackets and agendas. On the other hand, the Cold War military-industrial build up has resulted in or at least enabled another evil, thieving, murderous, racket and agenda — this one being run out of the U.S.
All I can really conclude is that the U.S. should have immediately started ramping down the military-industrial complex when Eisenhower warned America about it upon leaving office. If Ike wasn't that worried about the Communist menace, that's good enough for me.
Instead, Kennedy and Johnson ramped it up for Vietnam.
Dan Raphael
July 22nd, 2011 at 6:12 pm
Fantastic, Justin. We can agree to disagree about the outcome of the Vietnam war, but you've got Gitlin nailed to a tee. He's one of my prime, long-time examples of the Surrender School of faux leftism, so realistic that they can't/won't/don't want to be distinguished from the imaginary center trending towards ever-greater evil. Ya gotta be reasonable, as you help the ship sink…cause those Other Guys would sink it even worse! Yadda yadda yadda forevermore.
Jamie
July 22nd, 2011 at 10:00 pm
If Israel attacks Iran and the US help expect WW3 Russia China and many others will help Iran and they should.America has been fighting all these wars in the mid east for oil money and Israel without Israel helping America with its illegal wars.Now Israel will attack Iran and expect Americas help.If America is vsmart they will tell Israel no and if they dont listen they are on there own.America gets involved and WW3 is just around the corner.Israel is the worst most dangerous country to the world than any mid eastern country.Israel will never survive and if America involves its self many people from many countrys will die more than in any war in history.Off topic but the thing that people should be most worried about.America needs to stop all the wars and if Israel attacks Iran leave them to there fate.IOrans President never threatend to wipe Israel off the map but the zionist owned press keeps mis translating his words.Israel is the real criminal and so is America time for things to change.
A. G. Phillbin
July 22nd, 2011 at 10:12 pm
Your analysis is mostly wishful thinking on your part. The anti-war movement collapsed in the middle of the GWBush years, not with the election of BHO. The anti-war movement was largely a corpse by the time the presidential race began in 2007, and the anti-war demos were already quite pathetic, and had begun to dwindle not long after the attack on Iraq. The real reason for this is really as simple as it is disheartening: no American really sacrificed anything for these wars EXCEPT the troops, who were volunteers. No one paid higher taxes for the wars (the govt. simply borrowed from China, etc.), no one was drafted as cannon fodder, no one's children were unwillingly swept up into the wars, etc. Life went on as usual, for most people here. Okay, we had to take off our shoes at the airport, but how much time do we ever spend there?
—-1st of 2, to be continued——
A. G. Phillbin
July 22nd, 2011 at 10:13 pm
——2nd of 2——
In other words, people are self-absorbed, self-interested, self-centered louts who can't be bothered about anything that doesn't impinge on their personal pleasure — at least, that seems to be how they are in this country. During Vietnam, there was a draft, rising taxes, inflation, etc., coupled with an anti-war movement made up of people who had grown up, or even came from, the civil rights movement. All there was in 2003 was the aging remnant of that cohort, unable to reach far beyond that quarter. Don't blame liberals latching onto BHO: that was a symptom, not a cause. By that time, there was nothing else left for them to latch onto.
Mike
July 23rd, 2011 at 10:07 pm
Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul. I figured out both parties were wings of the same bird of prey long before 2007.
kwibono
July 23rd, 2011 at 10:24 pm
Don't blame me either, I voted for Cynthia McKinney.
BTW, last time I looked Ron Paul was a Republican –??
Please explain? Use both sides of PC screen if necessary…:)
marko
July 24th, 2011 at 8:58 am
Or, some people's core values change with the current of the currency.
@mrraven
July 24th, 2011 at 9:40 am
Know that the direct action activist left whether it's the Green Party aboveground, or the black block on the streets see through phony baby boomer war mongering suck asses like Gitlin!
@mrraven
July 24th, 2011 at 9:42 am
Since and including Korea!
augustus818
July 24th, 2011 at 11:30 am
Don't blame me I didn't bother to vote. Any and all people looking for power over others are my enemy.
BTW, last time I looked wasn't Cynthia McKinney a Democrat??
No need to explain myself any further I reckon.
kwibono
July 24th, 2011 at 11:50 am
Augustus, you haven't been paying attention. Dunno what you were looking at in 2008, but Cynthia McKinney was the Green Party candidate for President. Today she's speaking in Atlanta, reporting back from Libya, endorsed by the GA Greens, NOI, ANSWER Coalition/IAC, AAPRP, several Christian orgs/clergy, plus some I can't remember. Now if she could just get Antiwar, Codepink & some labor people on board, might have a chance to slow down the war machine. Libertarians welcome, but don't expect people to bite their tongues about racism, capitalism etc.
Mark W. Stroberg
July 24th, 2011 at 8:31 pm
The essence of libertarianism is a profound self-restraint with regard to the use of violence. Liberty cannot coexist with either form of government violence, be it welfare or warfare. Government is violent by nature, and until "progressives" and socialists recognize this, their thinking is bound to be fuzzy in regard to the deal they've made with the government devil.
kwibono
July 24th, 2011 at 9:28 pm
Thank you Mr Stroberg for illustrating why poor and workingclass people have so little use for "libertarians". What is "violent" about providing women and children who have been deserted by the father with food/shelter/medical care?
You say government is violent by nature. The central governments were much weaker in Feudal days, that what you have in mind? Anarchy is also violent by nature.
But capitalism is the most violent system ever devised. The real "devil" is the big capitalist FIRE sector and its apex, the Central Banking system, Fed, IMF, BIS.
Trident
August 2nd, 2011 at 6:42 am
Why should anyone expect leftists to bite their tongues?
Everybody knows you people can't stop from whining and trying to shove your entire agendas down people's throats, even when you are supposedly looking for antiwar alliances. Which is exactly why no alliance can ever be made; you don't care about antiwar issues nearly as much as you claim, otherwise you'd bite your tongue and like it.
Trident
August 2nd, 2011 at 6:45 am
So what?
Ron Paul's voting history is also clear.
He is one of the few people in both parties, if not the only one, who doesn't care if a war is "leftwing" or "rightwing". He is antiwar either way.
Trident
August 2nd, 2011 at 7:03 am
"What is "violent" about providing women and children who have been deserted by the father with food/shelter/medical care? "
Nothing. But then again this is a strawman.
However, "providing women and children with food/shelter/medical care paid for by funds that have been expropriated through government violence – or threat thereof – is violent.
Of course there are plenty of things governments do for the "public good" that the left also think are violent. They just happen to be just as selective and hypocritical as conservatives in picking and choosing when government coercion is "violent" and when it is not, depending on which personal ideal is served by the coercion.
"The real "devil" is the big capitalist FIRE sector and its apex, the Central Banking system, Fed, IMF, BIS. "
That's all nice and dandy, except that it is yet another strawman. Libertarians don't support any of the above institutions (as a matter of fact they LOATHE them), because they are notoriously interwoven with government. Which, as you should know, is what libertarians are AGAINST. You can pretend that the state/crony capitalism America is really dominated by is the same as the free market capitalism libertarians want, but you'd only reveal your own ignorance. There is actually more of a similarity between liberalism and Stalinism, than there is between libertarianism and crony capitalism.
And no, government is the most violent 'system' ever devised. There is no more genocidal mass murderer in the history of this planet than *government*, plain and simple. And that goes for both the leftwing as the rightwing version of it. The FED and the IMF haven't killed well over a hundred million people in just the 20th century alone. Governments did that.