I couldn’t bear to watch the President’s why-we’re-in-Libya speech as it was broadcast: it’s Spring, after all, and my garden needs planting. Priorities, priorities, priorities: so important, in politics and in life.
We all have our priorities: I have mine, and the President of the United States has his. As an indication of the latter, I note that Obama waited a whole week after deploying US forces before deigning to explain his actions to the American people. He has yet to go to Congress for authorization, although he made sure he cleared it with our pushy allies and the UN Security Council. Having received this double-dispensation, Congress is for him but an afterthought. This is the true meaning of “multilateralism”: world opinion matters, American opinion – not so much.
When he finally did come before us to justify this latest episode of world-saving, he didn’t address Congress, but “the most servile audience he could find,” as James Bovard so trenchantly put it, “uniformed military officers at the National Defense University. The room will be full of people who are owned lock, stock, and barrel by the government. The officers have spent their lives working for Uncle Sam, and they know that a single ill-time hoot during Obama’s talk could end their careers.”
There would be no “You lie!” moment in this setting. Such safeguards were not for nothing, because practically every other word out of his mouth was either a lie or a truth so veiled in ambiguity that it merges into untruth on closer inspection.
He started out with a half-truth, paying tribute to the “courage, professionalism, and patriotism” of “our men and women in uniform,” lauding them for helping the Japanese in their hour of need. No American could disagree with that: in the rest of the world, however, there is a less worshipful attitude toward the behavior of US troops stationed abroad. We may be inured to evidence of US atrocities, but those photos of US centurions posing next to the corpses of the civilians they slaughtered in Afghanistan were published the day before the President praised the “professionalism” of the US military.
I’ll leave it to others to sort out whether this qualifies as an outright lie, or a mere fib-by-omission. Obama is an expert at crafting the plausible untruth: not since FDR lied us into war – and much else – in the 1930s have we seen such a master of duplicity in the Oval Office. Inserted into this ode to the military was, indeed, one outright lie: “Because of them and our dedicated diplomats, a coalition has been forged and countless lives have been saved.”
The lives we “saved” are countless only because they don’t exist: we intervened to prevent a holocaust that never happened – and there’s no way of knowing (although plenty of reason to doubt) whether it would have happened without Western intervention. This is the kind of lie that Americans like to hear: he’s telling us we’re heroes, not Ugly Americans.
Quite literally every other word in his Libya peroration is a lie. Take this paragraph:
“For generations, the United States of America has played a unique role as an anchor of global security and advocate for human freedom. Mindful of the risks and costs of military action, we are naturally reluctant to use force to solve the world’s many challenges. But when our interests and values are at stake, we have a responsibility to act. That is what happened in Libya over the course of these last six weeks.”
America has played a role that is neither unique in world history nor notable for its benefit to the cause of human freedom. The British, and the Romans before them – and before them, Alexander – thought they could bring order out of the world chaos, and we are merely the latest pretenders to the throne. As for being mindful of the risks and costs of intervention, an audience other than the notables of the National Defense University would be sorely tempted to let loose with a loud guffaw. The really stunning lie that stands out from the crowd, however, is the assertion that “we are naturally reluctant to use force to solve the world’s many challenges.” After our long and ongoing post-9/11 rampage across the face of the Middle East, it will be many years before any US President can say this without being laughed at. Force, including the threat of it, is the main instrument of US foreign policy, a necessity inherent in the nature of any and all empires, and especially one such as ours, with global pretensions.
“When our interests and our values are at stake, we have a responsibility to act.” What interests, whose values – and what’s the difference, anyway? The President devotes the rest of his speech to deftly dancing around these three vital questions.
Obama stumbles, though, when he gives us a little geography lesson, in that gently condescending professorial tone he affects when directly addressing us ordinary folk: “Libya sits directly between Tunisia and Egypt,” we are told, “two nations that inspired the world when their people rose up to take control of their own destiny.” Well, yes, Libya does indeed sit “directly” between Tunisia and Egypt, but even more directly it squats squarely between Algeria and Egypt – and the omission is telling.
Algeria, under the self-proclaimed “socialist” dictator turned Western ally Abdelaziz Bouteflika, is also experiencing anti-government protests, which are being met with brutal force. Later on in his speech, Obama notes the disruption an exodus from Libya would have on neighboring countries, which hints at the administration’s real fear: that an influx of revolution-minded Libyans into Algeria would further destabilize the Bouteflika regime.
“Last month,” continued Obama, Gadhafi’s grip of fear appeared to give way to the promise of freedom. In cities and towns across the country, Libyans took to the streets to claim their basic human rights. As one Libyan said, ‘For the first time we finally have hope that our nightmare of 40 years will soon be over.’”
Another half-truth. Libyans did indeed take to the streets, but was it really to “claim their basic human rights”? At this point, the demands of the rebels seem to be limited to “Gadhafi must go!” What comes after Gadhafi is as much a mystery after Western intervention as it was before. Gadhafi has slimed the rebels as agents of al-Qaeda, which, oddly, puts him in the same camp as some extreme neocons, who see the Muslim world as inherently and incorrigibly authoritarian, and some opponents of US intervention, such as Alexander Cockburn, who give credence to some allegedly “secret documents” dug up by US intelligence which point to Libya as a focal point in al-Qaeda’s recruiting efforts. All this because some self-appointed “commander” of the rebel forces once fought against the Americans in Iraq. Rather than handing power over to bin Laden, the rebels will more likely want to restore the monarchy and install the heir of King Idris I (there are two to choose from).
In any case, the alleged goodness of the opposition is a difficult case to make, and so the President plays his trump card, the indisputable evil of Gadhafi:
“Faced with this opposition, Gadhafi began attacking his people. … In the face of the world’s condemnation, Gadhafi chose to escalate his attacks, launching a military campaign against the Libyan people. Innocent people were targeted for killing. Hospitals and ambulances were attacked. Journalists were arrested, sexually assaulted, and killed. Supplies of food and fuel were choked off. The water for hundreds of thousands of people in Misratah was shut off. Cities and towns were shelled, mosques destroyed, and apartment buildings reduced to rubble. Military jets and helicopter gunships were unleashed upon people who had no means to defend themselves against assault from the air.”
If, during the Civil War, Confederate newspapers reported that Lincoln had begun “attacking his people,” well, then they weren’t exactly wrong about that. The bald statement of this fact, however, leaves out a certain context. Innocent people are targeted in every war, including those conducted by the United States: take the hit on the Serbian state television station during the Kosovo war, a conflict this intervention is often compared to. The Israelis targeted water supplies in Lebanon, along with churches and factories, and yet we heard not a peep out of any party politician above the rank of dog catcher – and certainly not aspiring politician Obama at the time – on that one.
As for the fate of journalists in war zones: the same Al Jazeera that has been singled out by Gadhafi was singled out by the US in Iraq. Journalists are being killed by government-connected death squads in US-occupied Iraq today. As for journalists being sexually assaulted: it happened in Tahrir Square, too, you’ll recall, but somehow this failed to spur US intervention.
I could wade through this miasma of murky logic and dubious doubletalk all day and all night, and still not hone in on the central affront to reason contained therein, and so let me get to that without further ado. After giving us a hair-raising build-up to the climax of his narrative, the President gets down to the nitty-gritty:
“At this point, the United States and the world faced a choice. Gadhafi declared that he would show ‘no mercy’ to his own people. He compared them to rats, and threatened to go door to door to inflict punishment. In the past, we had seen him hang civilians in the streets, and kill over a thousand people in a single day. Now, we saw regime forces on the outskirts of the city. We knew that if we waited one more day, Benghazi – a city nearly the size of Charlotte – could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world.
“It was not in our national interest to let that happen. I refused to let that happen. And so nine days ago, after consulting the bipartisan leadership of Congress, I authorized military action to stop the killing….”
Gadhafi never said he would “show ‘no mercy’ to his own people,” but rather that he would show no mercy to the organizers of the rebellion – presumably, the interim “council” that now rules Benghazi, including his own former Interior Minister. These are the “rats” he referred to – defectors from his own government, who deserted what they perhaps rightly regard as a sinking ship.
Contrary to the President’s assertion that a massacre was imminent, there is no credible evidence Gadhafi was preparing any such action. Not a shred. Indeed, common sense, and military necessity, would argue against it: after all, having taken Benghazi, the Libyan despot would still have to rule it. It’s easy to demonize Gadhafi as a putative madman, yet he didn’t survive all these years for nothing. Indeed, he does have substantial support within the country, centered in the west, around Tripoli, as well as the southern oases of the Fezzan.
“America is different,” says the President. That’s why we intervened, because we can’t just stand by while atrocities are being committed – except when we’re the ones committing them, that is. Then we not only stand by, we call it “liberation.”
Every intervention in the post-cold war world has some significance as a precedent, establishing a new principle governing the ever more expansive definition of US “interests.” This one sets a new standard by positing a potential “humanitarian disaster” as a tripwire that sends American troops into battle. A version of it was utilized in the run-up to the Iraq war, with the President and his advisers invoking that ever-present “mushroom cloud” as the rationale for war. This time it was a purported madman about to commit mass murder on his own people. Next time – oh, just use your imagination. Any number of possible scenarios, based on factoids of dubious provenance, come to mind – along with a great number of possible targets.
Given the routine misery and oppression the governments of the world inflict on their subjects as a matter of course, the opportunity for fresh interventions by the Forces of Goodness & Light is effectively unlimited. In cheerleading Obama’s Libyan adventure, the President’s supporters are signing on to a future of perpetual warfare.
To be sure, the righteous tone of the President’s speech was ameliorated by protestations that the action was “limited,” and assurances that we’d soon be handing the effort off to NATO, and that there wouldn’t be any troops on the ground. This last, by the way, is yet another brazen lie: if we don’t have CIA over there already, aiding the rebels and coordinating air strikes with rebel actions on the ground, then somebody is not doing their job.
We are already half way down the slippery slope of Libya’s internal turmoil, and we’re in so deep at this point that I cannot see our way out for quite some time. The President is reported to have told congressional leaders that the intervention should last “days, not weeks,” and this is the biggest lie of all, a lie the President is apparently telling himself as well as us. We now own Libya’s insurrection: its fate belongs to us, and we’ll be wearing that albatross around our necks for quite some time to come.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Up Against the FBI – May 23rd, 2013
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013





skulz fontaine
March 29th, 2011 at 9:44 pm
I can't watch the Obama anymore period. I can't look at the man. If I do, I get this overwhelming urge to spit then whirl in circles trying mercifully hard to kick my self in the arse. Yes, I voted for the "mulatto messiah." I drank that bulls*#t Obama koolaid and those ill-effects having worn off finally, leave me feeling like one titanic chump.
However, the Obama is worse than a liar. The Obama has taken his rightful place in the annals of historical villainy. He is a war criminal same as the Obama predecessor, George the Doofus.
Crap, 'we the people' just never learn. We grab a hold of straw men and think they shall lead us from darkness and a horrid misery and then and then, we get the same old same old. Wrapped in 'humanitarian intervention."
Oh crap, here comes that urge to spit and then go into that circular self inflicted arse-kicking motif again.
miketherevelator
March 29th, 2011 at 10:06 pm
"Military jets and helicopter gunships were unleashed upon people who had no means to defend themselves against assault from the air.”
Meaning if Gadhafi had picked up some drones and left the jets and helicopters in the hangers, we could have avoided the whole mess.
liberranter
March 29th, 2011 at 10:38 pm
"Military jets and helicopter gunships were unleashed upon people who had no means to defend themselves against assault from the air.”
A description of Anytown, Anystate, UFSA, circa, oh, 2012, at the latest.
keltrava
March 29th, 2011 at 11:28 pm
Brilliant article Justin.
If Gadhaffi was going to murder his own people he had forty years to do so. Just imagine a bunch of armed Texans getting on their pickups en route to Washington blasting hell out of the towns on the way. Would not they be met with a bit of force.
The simple truth is that the Israeli lobby was always been anti Gadhaffi and the one dimensional Obama only has one foreign policy. Do what the Lobby instruct.
Jebe
March 29th, 2011 at 11:33 pm
I had no intention of watching his speech because hypocrisy is a disgusting thing. It says a lot about a person when someone would look him or her straight in the eyes and say quite clearly " The moon is made of green cheese" and then go about convincing him or her of it.
I say Caesar, have you seen the current political menu and do you not hear the gunfire and lamentations from the Ivory Coast ,just to mention one place that needs the UN and your gangster tactics? "No, I have heard about lead soup and the CIA has informed me that not only is it a very good dish but that those sounds are just the wonderful folks in the Ivory Coast popping corn".
I get the bad feeling that the American people will nevertheless re elect this criminal in 2012.
Bodkin
March 29th, 2011 at 11:53 pm
I congratulate you. Such tremendous stupidity is quite a feat.
Now ask yourself a question (slowly, so you don't get confused):
What serves Israel's interests more, jihadist rebels aligned with al-Qaida seizing power in Libya, or Gadhafi staying in power and thwarting the jihadists including al-Qaida?
I know it's a real brain-teaser, so I'll put you out of your misery: Gadhafi 's better for Israel. The "one dimensional" creature is you, and anyone else who reflexively assumes that Obama does the bidding of the so-called "lobby".
Israel wanted Obama to be tougher on Iran, but Obama gave Iran a pass.
Israel didn't want Obama to throw Mubarak under the bus, but Obama did precisely that.
Obama is constantly going against the interests of the "lobby", as anyone except you can see.
Your theory is a rotted slice of swiss cheese. No offense.
Ira7Epstein
March 29th, 2011 at 11:56 pm
Great article Justin! I still think it is not to late to pull away from the abyss that is Libya if only the cowards in congress will act. Congress must defund this war now! if congress is looking for places to save money Obama's immoral, illegall, and unjust war in Libya is what the doctor ordered. Defund the war and impeach Obama!
Montaigne
March 30th, 2011 at 12:57 am
That would take men of character. And courage.
Hildegaard
March 30th, 2011 at 2:03 am
Mr. Raimondo is concerned about the latest BS from the White House when radioactive particles from Japan are spreading all over the planet.When he goes out to tend his garden on the Russian River he will end up growing plutonium laced tomatoes.
dink
March 30th, 2011 at 3:20 am
"In cheerleading Obama’s Libyan adventure, the President’s supporters are signing on to a future of perpetual warfare. " says Mr Raimondo. This is true and absolute insanity. Mr Raimondo's has linked to Juan Cole. Cole argues the UN not being neoconservatives, so support Obama. "The intervention in Libya was done in a legal way", argues Cole. Bullsh#t!!! Pat Buchanan's latest, (which most likely antiwar.com will post) destroys that argument. Ron Paul, Kucinich, Walter Scott, and other GOP/tea party freshman, as well as several Democrats, are elected and would not agree either.
Cole quotes the leftists of yesteryear who went to fight in the Spanish Civil War, forming the Lincoln Brigade, he pines for the "how disappointed I was that Soviet tanks were allowed to put down the Prague Spring and extirpate" (remove or destroy totally; do away with; exterminate) " socialism with a human face." Cole is 'ok' with the ignoring our constitution. Freedom for others, but don't follow the rules of the United States, but the Taxpayer can pay the bills of course.
This war is a muddle-headed scam with excuses galore. I will take Justin Raimondo over Cole any day.
Andy
March 30th, 2011 at 3:51 am
Why the U.S. attacked Gadaffi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmNzEpbkftU&fe…
GradyWilson
March 30th, 2011 at 4:33 am
Good column but Raimondo misses the main relationship of the US gov and its foreign policy. Yes the pathetic Obama choose the National Defense University not because the gov owns them but because the Pentagon and those who back the Pentagon (the defense contractors, arms merchants, and capitalist banks) own the President, the US Congress along with the Judiciary and the media. US foreign policy is based on seeking profits, resources, and markets for these capitalist imperialists. "The nations interests" has always been used as the reason. For example – in Hawaii it really meant Dole's interest. In Latin America it really meant United Fruit's interest.
Libertarians refuse to acknowledge this relationship – that "the gov" and its foreign policy is enacted for and by the interests of capitalist imperialists because it does not fit their world view. This failure to ackowledge the truth is very pernicious and makes it appear that libertarians are infact agents of imperial propaganda themselves.
geo1671
March 30th, 2011 at 4:40 am
Boobkin–FYI: No such animal as al-Qaida .Try all-B.S. from CIA operations–Arabic–open pit toilet :^(
geo1671
March 30th, 2011 at 4:50 am
Osama O'Bomba said he confronted " pals of his" congress members on the issue. Any bets— Joe Lieberrman and Johnny on the Spot McCain?
John V. Walsh
March 30th, 2011 at 4:55 am
Great column.
A new flag should fly over the White House, "Home of the Whopper.". Remember "the incubator babies" in Kuwait, or the WMD in Iraq or the Saddam Hussein connection to the rebels. The liberal intelligentsia swallows each lie, or treats each one as a new "fact" unrelated to all that came before. Gullible is too kind as a descriptor of this "thought" process. And once the latest lie is outed, it is irrelevant. We are on to new lies – unconnected in the liberal "mind" to anything that went before.
The average man or woman will have none of this – to them every imperial politician is taken to be lying until it is proven otherwise. And if it is not now apparent to the wibs and pwogs that Obama is a liar on a grand scale, it never will be.
The task now is a drive to impeach for a clear violation of the Constitution – and the initial pressure must come from the Right. The pwogs and the rest of the liberal intelligentsia will never initiate such a movement although some may sign on out of embarrassment after a while. They like to run with the herd.
John V. Walsh
franklyn
March 30th, 2011 at 5:05 am
Exellent article and very truthfull, how about Hillary ,she seems to be inclined to influence Mr. Obama to arm the rebels and tries to play with the security council resolution that they may be able to do so. If this was presented to the UN security council I am sure Russia and China would have used their veto, What next perhaps Mrs Clinton is going to say there is a possibility to place troops on the ground to deffend the civilian because the rebels are unab le to use the weapons we supplied to them.
Not even once I heard concilliation from war mongers who managed to get this resolution through.
How about the women that claimed that she was raped by the security forces ?
In my opinion this is a set up but lets face it there are women being raped all over including europe therefore we have to blame Mr. Cameron.
franklyn
mpolzkill
March 30th, 2011 at 5:07 am
You've been told before: read some Rothbard so that you may stop making a *complete* ass of yourself.
Montaigne
March 30th, 2011 at 5:37 am
I'm not sure any doze of Rothbard would heal Wilson's mind. But some History knowledge might be of help. Also I thought of you, since I feel more and more convinced that diverse libertarian speculations are NOT sufficient to deal with many problems everyone can see today. Because with a constantly growing market (measured in populations dealing with each other) you have a nice economic growth from the fact of better division of labor alone.
So therefore (without anyone seeming to think too much about it) a constant EXPANSION of empire of some sort (growing markets) are supposed to solve any problems. Yeah! So more light brings more to read, and more reading brings forward more inventions. But at some point more light does not make any difference. And at some point a bigger market might run into also more growing control and information collection. More administration. Military alertness. Need for spin. Than any one new customer added.
Now, the growth of derivatives the last decennium has been spectacular! Could be seen not just as a sign of greater wisdom etc., but more importance of being the first and fastest, because the markets get closed down ever faster for any special product. An attitude of "grab the money and run" far remote from visions of Ayn Rand and her entrepreneurs. And it is certainly NOT socialist nonsense, that brought forward the present reality controlled by spin and raw power. So scolding Wilson is to me another error, regardless of any shortcomings of marxist speculations. Like punishing the watch maker for setting the wrong time, when the world is burning.
Montaigne
March 30th, 2011 at 5:39 am
Great. And perhaps a flag with a big, black spider.
MvGuy
March 30th, 2011 at 5:54 am
No way to defund NATO and what NATO does……… It is "off budget"….not discretionary. It is a treaty obligation… No doubt, one of the main reasons why expanding NATO is so important to the New American Empire gang…. Especially as the debt grows and the money runs out… See: http://floydreports.com/we-are-doomed/
MvGuy
March 30th, 2011 at 6:10 am
The Trojan Horse AKA Pres "O" was an enemy troop all along….. He did tweak our hope with hints of Neocon fealty…of anti-Pakistan …read Islam…proclivities…. Yes, we have been had..!! Again and again and again..!! It has always been thus. the better liars prevail over the optimistic voters…. We are the greatest..! The beacon of light and (yes) hope, but it is the merchants of profit and theft who stir our dreams…. Get on board..!! We will rule the world with our created wealth…. until the hope that gives it value die… When that day looms, the marshal nightmare ends……the ugly truth of death and debt will remain…
Little Paulie
March 30th, 2011 at 6:16 am
Where's Mr. "change-you-can-believe-in" Obama now? I still can't believe what a liar this guy turned out to be! He did a complete 180 on all of the platforms he ran on to become president and everyone seems to have forgotten all about it! Obama said that he was going to end the war in Afghanistan, close down our gulag in Guantanamo Bay and try to reach out to the countries in the ME. But we are just seeing a replay of everything that happened under Bush and Cheney. Obama can go to hell. He is just another lying, scumb4g politician. Ron paul is America's only hope; anyone else would just be more of the same.
emsnews
March 30th, 2011 at 6:20 am
We had to fight WWII. The problem was WWI in the first place and before that, the real problem was European imperialism as the empires there rushed all over the earth using new modern weapons against often stone age victims. The surge of conquests that began with the invention of a ship-board cannon ended with WWII as slowly the other nations gained some weapons and learned how to fight European-American style.
But to let Japan and Germany romp all over the planet during WWII would have been totally insane. We do have to fight sometimes. Pretending we don't is as silly as pretending free trade doesn't bankrupt governments (due to loss of tariff funds!).
donna
March 30th, 2011 at 6:27 am
Obama's face has become as repugnant to me as Bush's was. He is the quintessential liar and hypocrite. So, "we can’t just stand by while atrocities are being committed"–yet this country and its cynical government stood by as Israel pounded the hell out of both Lebanon and Gaza and we continue to stand by as Israel blockades Gaza and creates a humanitarian crisis. When will taxpayers wake up?
robt
March 30th, 2011 at 6:41 am
Impeachment a waste of time. Forecast: House 242-193 for, Senate 51-49 against. What's the Constitution got to do with it?
GradyWilson
March 30th, 2011 at 7:16 am
I tend not to generalize but this post (by mpolzkill) seems to reflect a common trait amongst libertarians – petulance and name calling without making a specific political statement. Notice the poster makes no actual comments about the column or my comments – he just goes personal and resorts to name calling. Raimondo himself is a perfect example of this. The few times I’ve seen him post its usually only to make bitchy personal attacks. I guess this is the type of person (thin skinned, insecure, small) who is predisposed to seeing hacks like Rothbard as their lord and savior. For being such lovers of capitalism they sure don't know how to sell. Its no wonder libertarism is such a fringe ideology.
greg
March 30th, 2011 at 7:17 am
Totally agree..
Tiberius
March 30th, 2011 at 8:11 am
Ironic…you complain about name calling but you have no qualms calling Tea Partiers "Tea Baggers" but I guess hypocrisy is only alright if it's your point of view.
ML3
March 30th, 2011 at 8:19 am
not since FDR lied us into war – and much else – in the 1930s have we seen such a master of duplicity in the Oval Office.
Uh, have you forgotten the last clutch of liars before Obama and after Bill Clinton…you know, the Simple Boy King II and Darth Cheney, who set the precedent and changed the rules to allow this kind of lying?
AngelaKeaton
March 30th, 2011 at 9:14 am
It's been a source of absurd amusement that the keepers of US Political Correctness deploy what is a essentially a homophobic slur in the vulgarity "Tea Baggers." Of course, it's my own naivety that ever imagined that the Rachel Maddows of the world might be more enlightened about such matters.
Terrance&Philip
March 30th, 2011 at 9:31 am
"… if only the cowards in congress will act."
Right. When pigs fly.
Terrance&Philip
March 30th, 2011 at 9:33 am
When he's done making Libya into a pig's breakfast, I picture Obama turning to his aides and asking, Urkel-like,"Gee, did I do that?"
Terrance&Philip
March 30th, 2011 at 9:36 am
Other than Ron Paul, (and I am not a dyed-in-the-wool Paulista), there's almost no one in in Washington I can think of who isn't repugnant.
Little Paulie
March 30th, 2011 at 9:55 am
Don't forget that Wilson lied us into WW1 which, in his own words, was supposed to be "the war to end all wars." And less than 2 decades later WW2 broke out. LOL.
BTW, go to YouTube and listen to a speech called "Benjamin Friedman Warns America" for more info on how we got into WW1.
johnc
March 30th, 2011 at 9:58 am
It must be nice being on Soros' payroll.
johnc
March 30th, 2011 at 10:13 am
Please ignore the above post. Maybe libertarianism is such a fringe ideology because it goes against the right-left system (see Ellul *Propaganda*)
Guest_M
March 30th, 2011 at 11:34 am
I'm enjoying the Kool-Aid now that its post election… whats in this stuff LSD?
All I know is I voted Ron Paul and I am delightfully vindicated. Damn this is some good Kool-Aid, the ice you say is made from the frozen tears of millions… wow they really spared no Expense… I guess thats where the "Change" comes from.
In all seriousness though he does suck alot…. oooh shiney I think I'm starting to see some wierd psychadelic s**t this stuff is great.
billy batson
March 30th, 2011 at 11:47 am
how about kusinich??
j r
March 30th, 2011 at 11:57 am
Americans will either 'elect' this criminal in 2012 or some other criminal selected to run. Won't make any goddamn difference either way or haven't you been paying attention to American politics for the last few decades?
skulz fontaine
March 30th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
Hi Guest_M:
Yeah yeah, rub it in. It's deserved. Like I don't feel a big enough asshat now. You are dead on correct too "in all seriousness", Obama sucks and he sucks lyingly large. Dang dangerous too. You know, in that "humanitarian intervention" gonna blast your sorry-butt smooth off'n the planet sort of manner.
j r
March 30th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Kusinich is only semi-repugent. After the revolution he only gets prison. Everyone else in Congress, other than Rob Paul, get's their f'ing head chopped off.
andy
March 30th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Where's the "change"?
andy
March 30th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Like its Justin's fault about Japan, huh buddy?
jackbootstate
March 30th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
I think what Obama was doing in his speech when he mentioned the term "bloodbath" was invoking images of Rwanda and Yugoslavia. Obama compared the amount of time it took for action in Bosnia. What took over a year for Bosnia was accomplished in about a month with the Libyan intervention. The subtext being that we're "preventing" blood baths like the ones in Yugoslavia and Rwanda. Actually, one could argue that all the energy and attention paid to Yugoslavia by the "humanitarian" interventionists paved the way for the much larger slaughter in Rwanda. The liberal interventionists don't like to be bothered by facts or to admit that they don't have any better ability to predict the future than anybody else.
Yes, there would have been a lot of bloodshed in Benghazi if Gaddafi's forces had made and assault on the city, but it's highly unlikely that he was intending to slaughter half a million people.
Anyway, I just wish I could have the clairvoyance these humanitarian interventionists have. If there is a genocidal massacre about to unfold, then they're on it, just like they were in Rwanda in 1994.
In the midst of this debate about the extent of the slaughter that might have unfolded in Libya without the U.S. led intervention, the one sure bet gets left out. That would be the eventual construction of a U.S. military base somewhere in Libya, most likely somewhere in Benghazi. It happened in the Persian Gulf area after the "limited" intervention led by the U.S. in '90-'91, and Iraq after the invasion and occupation in '03. It happened in the former Yugoslavia. The construction and maintenance of military bases world wide has been the bread and butter of U.S. foreign policy since the end of World War II. They're the U.S. Empire's version of a colony. Rather than baseless speculation about what would have happened sans a "humanitarian" intervention in Libya, it seems to me that we need to talk about what will happen as a result of the U.S. intervention in Libya.
Bodkin
March 30th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Why do I have so few thumbs down? At the time of this writing, my score is -24. Surely there must be more than 24 brainwashed idiots trolling around here!
GradyWilson
March 30th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
"Obama's face has become as repugnant to me as Bush's was. He is the quintessential liar and hypocrite. – donna
Right on donna. I, like the first poster, have to admit that I voted for Obama. I did this only as a "lesser of two evils" opposed to the white supremacist McCain/Palin fascist ticket. Now I wish McCain/Palin would have to deal with the world that Bush/Cheney left them. But Obama is pathetic. He's a bigger Uncle Tom than Clarence Thomas. He's the right' s greatest asset since Reagan. He is a coward, a fool, a chump, a boy, but his destruction of the Democrat Party might make him a great American.
GradyWilson
March 30th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
ANGELA KEATON is claiming "NAIVETY"! Too funny. That's like Raimondo claiming traditional family values.
Justin Raimondo
March 30th, 2011 at 6:06 pm
Oh, you think I don't have a family?
Hrebeljanovic
March 30th, 2011 at 7:11 pm
"Libertarians refuse to acknowledge this relationship – that "the gov" and its foreign policy is enacted for and by the interests of capitalist imperialists because it does not fit their world view."
This is one of many examples of how your lingo reeks of communist propaganda. So, all I can tell you is: Stick it!
dink
March 30th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
This websight, talks about being against statism which is kind of related to the Japan Disaster. How they ignored safety rules in their ignorance. I didn't give you a minus thumb. Thing is, they are going to war, the japan thing was a natural disaster along with major mess ups. There are several good articles about the Fukushima.
This tells you what this sight is about friend. Take care. http://antiwar.com/who.php
Jamal
March 30th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
The Libyan war is Afghanistan war all over again.., this time made possible by Obama, Clinton, Rice, Power and Saudis Tyrants Kingdome family.., They brought in this man to show the world that US is not about rascism nor is about fascism.., he turnd out to be a democrat with Nobel Peace price on his lap telling the world I am both.
jackbootstate
March 30th, 2011 at 9:32 pm
This guerrilla army sucks:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110331/ap_on_bi_ge/a…
They can't even mount a steady offensive with the most powerful air forces in the world helping them out. This wouldn't be happening with a seasoned guerrilla army with years of fighting experience behind it.
Unless the U.S. and it's European allies want to invade and occupy Tripoli, they're going to have to settle for the partition option to settle this conflict. Qaddafi appears to be keeping to his vow to fight to the end, so partitioning the country might be the only way to settle this. I don't think the U.S., UK, France and Italy want anything do with occupying Tripoli. Of course, this would be a golden opportunity for Washington to build a permanent military base in the newly recognized "Cyrenaica", with Benghazi as its capital.
Bodkin
March 30th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
You must be the black sheep.
Montaigne
March 31st, 2011 at 1:08 am
In fact, whereas marxism was wrong about greed of men above all, isn't a corporation exactly a creature designed for profit above anything else? Don't they educate their employees into that "ideology" and reward the leaders heavily – even when they make grave mistakes – as if to underscore the importtance of endless greed above everything else. A person might want some nice house, place, family. But eternal growth of wealth seems too meaningless to most people.
So therefore I would say Grady has a point, even if might be coming to his statements from other angles. It is a problem, when onesided blindness grasp hold of any society.
franklyn
March 31st, 2011 at 2:09 am
Exellent article and very truthfull, how about Hillary ,she seems to be inclined to influence Mr. Obama to arm the rebels and tries to play with the security council resolution that they may be able to do so. If this was presented to the UN security council I am sure Russia and China would have used their veto, What next perhaps Mrs Clinton is going to say there is a possibility to place troops on the ground to deffend the civilian because the rebels are unab le to use the weapons we supplied to them.__Not even once I heard concilliation from war mongers who managed to get this resolution through.__How about the women that claimed that she was raped by the security forces ?__In my opinion this is a set up but lets face it there are women being raped all over including europe therefore we have to blame Mr. Cameron.__franklyn__
GradyWilson
March 31st, 2011 at 3:01 am
"you think I don't have a family? " – poor widdle Justin
did I say that? NO. Of course you know this but are simply attempting to play the victim card. But you do have strange political allies for a homosexual don't you?
"AIDS is nature's retribution for violating the laws of nature." – Raimondo's friend Pat Buchanan
" we stand with him (Bush) against the amoral idea that gay and lesbian couples should have the same standing in law as married men and women." – Raimondo's friend Pat Buchanan
How exactly do you justify your alliance with those who hate you? Seems like you are self loathing IMHO. You won't even acknowledge that it was the Left which fought for you to live you life in equality – a concept which you despise. Your political fellow travelers would like you to be outlawed and condemned to eternal damnation. Doesn't this reflect on your character? Yes it does whether you acknowledge it or not.
LibraryJim
March 31st, 2011 at 5:50 am
But we can stand by — and we have and we are — in other countries where similar or worse are being committed (Syria; Iran; the Sudan; Rwanda; Ethiopia — all of whom at one time or another called on the UN for help). And Obama Criticized W. Bush for 'intervening' in Iraq, even as we had evidence (OK, so it was slim and based on faulty Clinton intel,, but it WAS there) they had ties to Al Qaeda.
So, Mr. President, what EXACTLY makes Lybia different?
mhstahl
March 31st, 2011 at 6:29 am
And corporations are a construct of businessmen, or of lawmakers?
When government uses its force to deny individuals an avenue for just compensation for damage or other wrong, or hampers their ability to freely offer goods and services it does true evil. This is exactly what " limited liability" corporations exist to do, what they were expressly designed to do, and what they in fact do.
Grady, I sympathize with your point of view, but I just can't understand why you cannot see who has the power here, who has the ability to exercise explicit force, and who PRINTS(or has printed)the money you are so worried about.
Carpenter
March 31st, 2011 at 7:21 am
Yes, he was supposed to close the Guantanamo Prison, end the wars, bring home foreign troops. Expose the CIA prisons, end it all, what have you. There's a YouTube video where he tells an audience he'll bring home the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan within a year of his presidency. "You can take that to the bank."
In Libya, he seeks a way to cozy up to the Arab revolutions, which are otherwise anti-Israel and therefore anti-Washington. Up until now the CIA had been working together with the Socialist People's Republic of Libya against Islamists. The CIA was working with the socialist parties in Tunisia, Algeria and Egypt too, against nationalist Islamists. (Is the Algerian party still a member of the Socialist International? The ones in Tunisia and Egypt were, until the revolutions.)
How funny to see Obama turn on Qaddafi, who has quietly been a U.S. ally since 2004. It can actually work out for the best, wait and see. I don't think those Libyan rebels will be anything but strongly pro-Palestinian. That's why many al-Qaeda members have come from eastern Libya.
Carpenter
March 31st, 2011 at 7:33 am
LOL Obama did nothing to stop the revolutions against the pro-Israel regimes in Bahrain and Yemen, U.S. allies. He and his ilk have threatened Iran with nuclear attacks – because Iran has given financial and diplomatic aid to the Palestinian resistance. He continues the wars against Afghanistan and Iraq – among the few M.E. countries that have given support to the Palestinians.
Between a quarter and a third of ALL campaign money in Washington comes from the Israeli lobby. Which Israel then gets back when American tax money is channeled to Israel every year. Senators, House reps, Obama's cabinet members go on trips to Israel, where they kiss the feet of the Zionist government. Tell me Bodkin, when did they ever go on vacation to Iran? Or for that matter, to a European country? Why always Israel? OHHH, must just be a BIG coincidence, right?
Don't lie, Bodkin. Don't lie either in English or in Hebrew. Obama's chief of staff until recently was Rahm Emanuel, the son of an Israeli terrorist from the Irgun Gang, the ones who murdered British soldiers. He David Axelrod and other Zionists around him too.
Obama is taking the opportunity in Libya to cozy up to the Arab revolutionaries, after the Israeli cabal in Washington went into panic mode: "An Arab movement we don't control! Can we bomb them? Can we buy them? They are here to stay, we must do something." Corrupting foreign movements is what Washington does best. Much better than invasions.
But this time they won't succeed. Too bad for you. The revolutions, both the successful ones and the failed ones, have reshaped the mentality in the Middle East. Arabs now know that fighting Israel's New World Order, its many loyal dictators bought by U.S. taxes, is possible. Israel as it now exists is done. Like Ahmadinejad correctly stated, "The regime that now recides in Tel Aviv will pass from the pages of history."
Bodkin
March 31st, 2011 at 7:50 am
"when did they ever go on vacation to Iran?"
Wow, brilliant question. You might as well ask why they don't spend Christmas in Pyongyang!
"David Axelrod and other Zionists"
More brilliant analysis. You automatically conclude that every Jew is a big-time Zionist, don't you? Even the ones who make their hostility to Israel crystal clear.
"Arabs now know that fighting Israel's New World Order, its many loyal dictators bought by U.S. taxes, is possible."
Wow, three for three! Here's a newsflash: They're not fighting Israel's order. They're fighting their own self-defeating order: an incurable epidemic of tyranny.
By the way, quoting the odious despot (one of many) in Iran doesn't exactly do wonders for your credibility. Perhaps there are statements by Farrakhan you'd like to parrot next.
Justin Raimondo
March 31st, 2011 at 8:01 am
Seems like you're the one infected with hate. I never get any sexuality related comments except from old-fashioned commies like you. The most respectful of all are/were the Buchananites, at their Long Beach convention: the most disrespectful are …. people like you, who formally adhere to Political Correctness, but really hate gays, especially those who dont stay on the plantation and do as they're told.
We keep you around, Grady, to demonstrate the bigotry and small-mindedness of the Typical Leftist. And you're doing a really good job. Keep up the good work. hahahahaha
Shane
March 31st, 2011 at 8:18 am
Your problem, Grady (and the fallacy that all of the communists who come on here to bash freedom commit), is that you insist on conflating the fascist-socialist hybrid that characterizes the political and economic fabric of the modern state with "capitalism" and/or "free-market" libertarian philosophy.
Govt-created and protected corporations are NOT examples of free-markets in action.
Govt armies funded through coercive taxation are NOT examples of free-markets in action.
Govt-controlled currencies, courts, and markets are NOT examples of free-markets in action.
Legalized theft, coercion, and murder (politely called "taxation", "law/regulation", and "war" by statists) are NOT the free-market in action.
That you and your ilk keep insisting otherwise in the face of logic and fact demonstrates your ignorance, intellectual dishonesty, and lack of reasoning capacity. You people are SO DESPERATE to tear libertarianism down to promote your FAILED communist ideology that you'll stoop to ANY tactic.
Blaming libertarian philosophy for today's calamities: its a completely ludicrous position to take, and it ignores the fact that the core of libertarianism is the Non-Aggression Principle (NAP) as well as disregarding the popular (and imo correct) libertarian theory regarding property rights: Homesteading.
If anything, what's occurring today is a consequence of YOUR ALLS ideology: communism…the idea that the state is supreme and entitled to redistribute wealth and direct society at gunpoint.
You folks aren't opposed to using violent political power to bend others to your will–you're just mad because you don't currently have this power. In principle you're no different than the ruling-class elites you rail against; libertarians, on the other hand, oppose political power on PRINCIPLE.
Carpenter
March 31st, 2011 at 8:21 am
Um, you are pretending that Rahm Emanuel and his buddy David Axelrod are NOT pro-Israel? I knew you were a liar, but that you were such a dumb liar, that's hilarious.
The Arab rebels are strongly pro-Palestinian, as are almost all Arabs. "Here's a newsflash": I happen to actually know people on the ground, whereas you only read from Zionist lying rags. The dictators in Egypt and elsewhere receive money on the condition that they make peace with Israel – Egypt helped in isolating and starving the Gaza Strip. Egypt received more money from the U.S. than any other country – except ISRAEL, of course. The 51st state. Egypt got this money because it borders on the Gaza Strip, and was instrumental in the isolation of the Palestinians. You're pretending Egypt under Mubarak wasn't cooperating with Israel, and that the demonstrators aren't against that? Man, what a liar.
Ahmadinejad is "an odious despot"? He is loved by most of his country, except for some westernized rich kids. He is one of the few to stand up against Israel and the U.S.-paid tyrants in the Middle East. For that Zionist lovers like you hate him of course. Keep it up, you are hilarious in your attempts to sound believable.
Aren't you gonna claim Ahmadinejad said that Israel should be "wiped off the map"? Come on, support that lie. You know you want to.
Shane
March 31st, 2011 at 8:23 am
You voted for Obama?!!
As much crap as you come on here talking and you voted for someone who OBVIOUSLY was gonna be Bush III?
I was telling people WELL before the 2008 election that Obama was gonna be a continuation of Bush…
Guess you're not half as politically savvy as you think you are…
You just discredited yourself, you realize?
Bodkin
March 31st, 2011 at 8:57 am
"I happen to actually know people on the ground"
So do I, and I guarantee you that your claim that Ahmadinejad "is loved by most of his country" is one of the most shameless, self-serving, gargantuan falsehoods I've ever heard. And one needn't know any Iranians to know what a lie that is. You've got a lot of nerve (and precious little self-awareness or credibility) calling anyone else a liar after spewing such a big one.
And when did I ever make a comment about Mubarak? You not only spew lies, you put words in my mouth! Mubarak is as greedy and crooked as they come, but he kept the peace and thus saved many lives. He did more damage to Egyptians by hoarding so much money over the years than by cracking down on the fanatical terrorist barbarians you support.
GradyWilson
March 31st, 2011 at 8:59 am
That's not fair at all. In fact its a lie. I've never made an anti-gay comment and I do fully support gay rights.
What I've commented on is YOUR HYPOCRISY of being ideologically aligned with people who hate gays and want to deny them rights. You do know that your Tea Partiers are much more anti-gay than the general population don't you?
What bigotry are you specifically accusing me of? Again just another unsubstantiated accusation. You don't deserve respect. You are a rather pathetic individual. I hate you because you are a lying hypocrite – not because you are gay. You deceitfully pretend this site is about the antiwar left and right coming together (especially during funding drives) but you obviously have nothing but hatred for the left.
Bodkin
March 31st, 2011 at 9:03 am
Hmm. That suggests you also have a self-serving reason why you keep ME around, and possibly every OTHER critic of yours.
Perhaps anyone who disagrees with you should be made aware that they're being tolerated … for a reason.
emsnews
March 31st, 2011 at 9:16 am
Funny how the US splits all other countries in two after encouraging revolts?
Odd, how we fought like devils to prevent this from happening here.
GradyWilson
March 31st, 2011 at 9:17 am
BS.
Free markets, anarcho-capitalism, and absolute property rights are the road to serfdom.
emsnews
March 31st, 2011 at 9:18 am
Saddam had zero ties with al Qaeda. He hated and feared them. They wanted the US to hit Saddam and destroy him knowing this would unleash many violent forces which we see at work today. The entire strategy of bin Laden was to bankrupt the US by luring us into many wars in the Middle East.
Shane
March 31st, 2011 at 9:40 am
You putting "absolute" in front of "property rights" is asinine too: I imagine YOU have a pretty "absolute" belief in YOUR ideology, so attempting to use this as some kind of slur against libertarianism is ridiculous.
You either believe everyone should be governed by the same philosophy regarding property or you don't.
You either believe we each "own" ourselves or you don't.
Property is simply an extension of the concept of self-ownership–you either believe we're all entitled to the product of our labor/intellect or you don't.
You either agree we each has an "absolute" right to our own bodies or you don't.
And if you DON'T agree each individual has an "absolute" right to his/her own body…this means you think SOMEONE ELSE has an "absolute" right to same.
Which is it Grady?
GradyWilson
March 31st, 2011 at 9:44 am
I came here with good intentions – interested in the libertarian ideology but sceptical – not to be a troll but this has degraded beyond being enjoyable. So I'll quit posting.
Good bye and good luck to everyone.
NO WAR!
ps – one last thing. Antiwar.com should be more honest about who is welcome here and quit pretending that this is a place where the antiwar left and right can unite.
Bodkin
March 31st, 2011 at 9:53 am
Some folks just can't hack it for long, going against the groupthink. Especially when they don't have enough conviction to defend their principles from criticism.
I guess this means I'm the sole remaining troll.
Man, it's lonely at the top.
USAma Bin Laden
April 2nd, 2011 at 1:51 am
America is a Cruader Empire.
And it is one hell bent not only on global domination but one that believes it has a God-given calling to subjugate other nations.
Obama's comments only represent the American national character and its fanatical belief that the USA represents, as Ronnie Reagan put it, a "Shining City on a Hill."
This American national delusion is the warped ideology that enables Americans to rationalize and justify America's serial wars of aggression and crimes against humanity that it has committed with impunity for the past 200 years.
No matter how many people America genocides… sorry, liberates from Vietnam to Iraq to Afghanistan to Libya, Americans still self-righteously beat their breasts about how their beloved American Empire is a (snicker) beacon of liberty for the world.
So it's not just Obama that is lying.
It's the United States and the bloodthirsty American people themselves who lie to themselves about what the American entity truly stands for.
It sure as hell ain't human freedom or liberty.
It's never been.
And it never will be.
Jim
April 4th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Good riddance to you, you POS.