Barely 24 hours after the first Allied air strikes, President Obama’s high-flying Libyan adventure is losing altitude. The smoke hadn’t cleared from the first air strikes when the head of the Arab League complained that “what happened differs from the no-fly zone objectives. What we want is civilians’ protection, not shelling more civilians.” Russia and China, who abstained at the Security Council, are already getting restless.
There’s trouble on the horizon.
Initially skeptical of intervention in Libya’s civil war, the President reportedly bowed to pressure from a triumvirate of women in his administration: Hillary Clinton, National Security Council director of “multilateral affairs” Samantha Power, and UN ambassador Susan Rice. Yet the President imposed some conditions, according to the New York Times:
“The president had a caveat, though. The American involvement in military action in Libya should be limited — no ground troops — and finite. ‘Days, not weeks,’ a senior White House official recalled him saying.”
Years, not weeks, is more like it – that’s how fast we’re sliding down the slippery slope into a full-bore campaign of “regime change” in Libya. And that will be just fine with the three Vengeful Valkyries of the US State Department.
Power is a former journalist who says she was “obsessed” with Bosnia during the run-up to the Balkan war, and whose “human rights” agenda is a perfect reflection of the liberal “humanitarian” interventionist mindset. She was briefly famous when, during the Democratic presidential primary, she decried Hillary Clinton as a “monster.” Well, it looks like she’s more than made her peace with the monster – and, indeed, become a bit of a monster herself, – as the two team up to push us into yet another Middle Eastern war.
Married to Cass “Let’s Infiltrate the Internet” Sunstein, a White House adviser, Power is indeed obsessed with dispensing “social justice” worldwide as an instrument of US foreign policy. If she had her way – and she may yet – US troops would be in Darfur, Rwanda, and any number of Third World hellholes, nation-building, handing out goodies, and getting shot at by the grateful populace.
Susan Rice, former Undersecretary of State for African Affairs during the Clinton administration, is yet another “humanitarian” in search of “genocides” to avenge. Like Power, she believes we ought to have intervened in Rwanda, and is part of a hard-liner clique, including her mentor Madeleine Albright and the late Richard Holbrooke, that holds the view the US must take a more interventionist stance in Africa, which, Rice avers, is undergoing its “first world war.” And she means for us to take sides in that war. When Ethiopia invaded Somalia, in 2007, Ms. Rice cheered the advance of the Ethiopian dictator Mele Zenawi’s armies as they rampaged through the country. Zenawi’s regime is now targeting neighboring Eritrea. Will the White House, under Rice’s tutelage, support that, too?
The leading member of this Amazonian triumvirate is, of course, our Secretary of State, whose support for US intervention in Libya was signaled early on when Bill Clinton said we ought to go in. Hillary’s key role in dragging us into Libya’s civil war hardly comes as a shock. During the presidential primary, she distinguished herself from Obama by assuming a “tough” foreign policy stance, famously running an attack ad that conjured a hapless President Obama getting a call on the red phone at three in the morning. Rather than rethink her position on Iraq, even after the disastrous consequences of the invasion began to roll in, she held her ground and refused to back off her support for the war. As I said at the time of her appointment:
“Remember the Clinton ad about the phone call at three in the morning? Well, now it looks like it’ll be Hillary making that call, if and when it has to be made – a clever bit of political jiu-jitsu on Obama’s part that has generally gone unremarked amid the praise for the alleged smartness of the Clinton appointment. What’s not so smart, however, is that he’s essentially conceding the realm of foreign affairs to the Clintons.
What we’ll have, in effect, is a co-presidency, with Obama taking the lead on domestic matters … The Clintons, on the other hand, will be put in charge of shoring up the Empire and reassuring our allies that the only ‘change’ will be a regression: don’t worry, we’re just going back to the 1990s.”
Which is where we are today. President Clinton set a new record as far as the sheer number of times he intervened abroad: Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Iraq, and Kosovo – this last, you’ll recall, at Hillary’s persistent urging. The “humanitarian” wing of the War Party is in the saddle, and they are just as ideological, just as bellicose, and just as self-deluded as their neoconservative counterparts on the right.
Gadhafi has promised “a long war.” Is the US prepared for that? For – make no mistake – it is the Americans who will be asked to take up the main burden of what is bound to degenerate into an extended “peacekeeping” operation. Our European allies just don’t have the military capacity, and none of the Arab countries, for all their bluster, are up to the job, either.
Gadhafi may come on as a madman, and may indeed actually be a madman, but there is a definite method to his madness, and it has served him well so far. For over 40 years, he’s managed to stay in power in a very rough neighborhood, surviving the bombing of his palace by Ronald Reagan and crushing every sign of internal rebellion up until now. He also has a significant base of support in the western provinces, and from some tribal leaders in the south.
I see that the US and its allies are now backing off the “regime change” rhetoric, but that won’t be so easy. Having taken that first step into the Libyan quagmire, we’re fated to slide down the increasingly slippery slope of Libya’s complicated internal politics, until we land smack dab in the middle of a godawful mess.
Our too-smart-for-their-own-good policy wonks in the State Department are convinced they’re getting ahead of the Arab Awakening and that the US will be greeted as a liberator by pro-democracy forces everywhere. Except, of course, in Yemen, where we’re backing another President-for-life who just murdered peaceful protesters: oh yes, and also except for Bahrain, and Saudi Arabia, where peaceful protesters are being killed and jailed by pro-US monarchs. But that is really the least of our worries: after all, a global hegemon doesn’t have to answer to anybody, and so calling out our inconsistencies has little impact in Washington.
No, our real problem is going to be the Libyan opposition. Having adopted them, we are stuck with them – and subject to their further demands. And first and foremost among those demands is going to be regime change. Rather than stay in Cyrenaica, the eastern part of the country which has its own historical identity and separatist aspirations, the rebels are determined to march on Tripoli – and they will be wanting (nay, demanding) air cover, arms, “advisers,” and other forms of aid, which they are sure to get.
There are no half measures in war. Sooner rather than later, the President is going to have to decide if the US wants to commit US forces to Libya in a big way. “Days, not weeks,” is a fantasy. The Libyan rebels have now been placed under our protection: we are the champions of their cause. From protecting Benghazi, we are already well on our way to establishing yet another American protectorate in the Middle East. The empire expands, even as the economy shrinks, and one has to wonder: how long can this go on?
Americans, in voting for Barack Obama, voted for less intervention, fewer wars, and the prospect of real change in our foreign policy of global intervention. They didn’t sign on to a “team of equals,” and nobody asked them if they wanted American foreign policy turned over to the Clintons.
The President will live to regret the day he allowed himself to be nagged into ordering US military intervention in the Libyan civil war. Gadhafi is not just a clown, he’s a dangerous and sinister clown: to get in the ring with this madman is a mistake. Gadhafi will goad and lure him and his Amazons ever deeper into the Libyan quicksand, until there is no hope of early extrication. Now that the US and its allies are involved, the Libyan despot can play the anti-Western, anti-imperialist card with some credibility: this will shore up his previously waning support in the west and the south.
It is indeed going to be a long war, one that will cost us much more than we can ever hope to gain.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013
- Boycott Israel? – May 9th, 2013
- Carla del Ponte’s Faux Pas – May 7th, 2013





sam stone
March 20th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
play it again sam.
skulz fontaine
March 20th, 2011 at 9:55 pm
Quagmires 'R' Us.
Michael Ehling
March 20th, 2011 at 10:04 pm
Even Dubya got some kind of Congressional "authorization" to blow up Afghanistan and Iraq. And as far as blowing up Pakistan, maybe that has something to do with "hot pursuit." But when did Barack D'Bomber get any Congressional "authorization" to blow up Libya? I mean, I know declarations of war may be a bit passé now-a-days, just like the rest of the Constitution, but doesn't D'Bomber even need a fig leaf?
John_Muhammad
March 20th, 2011 at 10:59 pm
I entered Obama's name on the Mr. T Name Generator, and it came up (you guessed it):
FOOL
mickperry
March 21st, 2011 at 12:12 am
War coalition leader David Cameron has refused to give any assurance to the British parliament that depleted uranium munitions are not being used. The Arab states that are taking part in this onslaught remain anonymous.
USAma Bin Laden
March 21st, 2011 at 12:21 am
Justin Raimondo is not so much concerned about the criminality of America's latest imperial aggression or the destruction it will rain down on Libya.
No.
He's primarily fearful that this aggression may be stymied (i.e. end up in "quagmire"). This quagmire complaint is typical of imperial American citizens, whose motivations are never about peace but about the costs and consequences of war … for the USA, that is.
This self-serving cost/benefit complaint is typical of what passes for "antiwar" opposition on this website and Raimondo in particular.
Americans don't mind waging wars of aggression–just as long as they are *successful* wars of aggression in which they don't get their hair mussed up in the process!
So much for America's peace movement.
sherban
March 21st, 2011 at 1:43 am
I agree with you,this article doesn't contribute to an opposition for interventions,maybe conversely.Justin calls Gadhafi "Gadhafi is not just a clown, he’s a dangerous and sinister clown" exactly how Clinton and the "free media "calls him.About Ahmadinejad the same tactics.But have the rights these journalists to use such language when never they did on GW Bush,Ramsfeld,the so ridiculous Clintons.When was called a scum as Blair "demented"when is used "imbecile and dangerous"for Avigdor Lieberman (in fact some one dared to call him such,a North Korea minister).There is a man which commentaries seem to be realistic,Fidel Castro,and ,obviously he speaks different about Gadhafi.Doubtless US and its allies perpetrate now new crimes aiding the "rebels".The rights to perpetrate these crimes is given by propaganda which decried Gadhafi as a Gadhafi is not just a clown, he’s a dangerous and sinister clown.
Montaigne
March 21st, 2011 at 2:25 am
There is another aspect of this international action of war: The rebels were not certain in any way to be wishing to play the game along after the shift of political leaders, And one must remember, that the world is controlled by spin. So they HAD to attack, making sure they could weave the right spider net afterwards. They were certainly not afraid of Ghadafi, but rather of the outcome, maybe remocing spiders all over the world. A horrible thought of those sociopaths being chasen out everywhere. Remember: that kind of people lack any conviction to fall back on. It is the end of their world! Better destroy everything and anybody first! Such a mindset you should remember leads the world.
Bodkin
March 21st, 2011 at 3:17 am
Raimondo overlooks a salient point: TIMING.
If an attack was desired, it should have happened much sooner, when Gadhafi was at his weakest and the rebels at their strongest. The rebels may not have welcomed any outside help then, but they should have, as they might have won decisively and it might truly have taken only "days, not weeks".
Sadly, the decision-makers lack vision. They merely react to events, and only after prolonged deliberation. This operation might have resembled NATO's bombing of Serbia, which wasn't as protracted as Raimondo predicts the Libyan war will be.
Incidentally, first-to-attack France is being credited with saving lives in Benghazi by halting the advance of Gadhafi's forces.
Bodkin
March 21st, 2011 at 3:23 am
Raimondo lists some of the countries where Samantha Power wants to intervene with U.S. troops, but omits a big one: the Israeli occupied territories.
Power has discussed her plan to send in a massive force to protect the Palestinians, at the risk of alienating what she referred to as a powerful minority in the States.
I'm just wondering if Raimondo and his readers object to all her other interventionist plans except that one.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 21st, 2011 at 3:43 am
The USSA's underlying ideology is utilitarianism. NGO's, pesticides, Honey Bee Colony Collapse Disorder, Los Angeles and Las Vegas drying up the Colorado River, a death penalty executioner, TSA employees doing just their job, all are products of utilitarianism.
I think that Justin, and other people commenting here have proven several times that they, contrary to a large number of their compatriots, had moral principles.
The problem is that you can try to remind a pro-death penalty, pro-war "Christian" that "Thou shalt not kill", it just doesn't work. You can try to remind grandstanding moralists of the Samantha Power ilk that the fundamental right of every human being is the right to life, it just doesn't work.
What is left then to try to convince people who are blinded either by ideology or greed, or both, that the game they're playing is a nefarious one?
Apart talking to them in the only language they truly understand, the language of costs and benefits, I don't see.
Anaksha Fassin
March 21st, 2011 at 3:50 am
Note: The Coalition of the Killing (CoK) is an abbreviation I shall henceforth use for the following triumvirate:
1. The government, military and financial structures of Britain;
2. The government, military and financial structures of France and
3. The government, military-industrial complex and financial structures of the United States, the trio of American-based entities collectively known as the Evil Empire.
You’ll note that I’m leaving the people of these three countries out of the ambit of the term, for the simple reason that I believe that the overwhelming majority of them are not in any way (at the time of writing, at least) complicit in the activities of their overlords.
I think I shall be using this term more frequently in coming days, because (in contradiction to West and Central Asia) the so-called junior partners of the Coalition of the Killing seem to be taking the initiating roles in North Africa, and probably will continue doing this in the immediate future.
All of which brings me to these questions I want to ask. Members of the Coalition of the Killing, what do you have to say in response to these questions?
1. Since the alleged mandate you were given by the United Nations was specifically to enforce a “no-fly-zone” over Libya in order to protect civilians in rebel-held areas from government bombing (whether said bombing actually has occurred or not), what role has bombing Moammar Gaddafi’s presidential compound got to do with that objective? Isn't it true that the Empire's own Defence Secretary says that this is illegal? Do you claim that Gaddafi has a secret airbase in that presidential compound? Is your attack on his compound simply in order to assassinate him? If that is the objective, how does it square up with the limited UN mandate you allegedly received?
2. Since you yourself explicitly admitted that you cannot prove or even confirm that the government of Libya did, actually, bomb civilians from the air, what exactly is your no-fly zone supposed to achieve? The protection of armed rebels from air attack? Isn't it true that the Russians have also stated that the alleged bombing did not take place? Since the rebels have their own air force, does your no-fly-zone also extend to them? If not, why not? If so, will you also shoot down rebel planes and bomb rebel anti-aircraft defences? Again, if not, why not?
3. Is the objective of your massive bombing campaign to protect the civilian population, or to aid the rebels in their attempt to overthrow the official government of Libya? If the former, how is bombing Tripoli and murdering civilians part of the process of protecting civilians?
4. If your objective is merely to protect civilians, will you ignore the fighting on the ground, if and when government and rebel forces fight battles? Will you stand by if the rebels are defeated on the ground, as long as civilians are not hurt? If the rebels resume their advance on Tripoli, will you prevent the government from defending itself? If you do take sides, how does that square with your mandate to protect civilians? If you do begin bombing ground forces, how do you plan to distinguish government soldiers from rebel units, given that they are part of the same original army and wear the same uniform? How do you intend to protect civilians who are in close quarters to the fighting, while you’re bombing the “bad guys”? If the civilians are of the rebel side, alias the “good guys”, will you – as in Pakistan and Afghanistan – write them off as “collateral damage”?
5. If your aim is to help the rebels take over Libya, how is that allowed by the UN mandate you received? If you have decided to interpret the mandate as a go-ahead to do whatever you want, how do you propose to restrict any other nation from interpreting future or past resolutions as creatively? If you are determined to weigh in on the side of the rebels, which rebel group (since there are many, and mutually incompatible) will you support? If, or rather when, the rebels begin fighting among themselves, which side will you aid in coming to power? Isn't it true that some of the rebels are allied to the same people fighting you in Iraq and Afghanistan?
6. Since you claim that Moammar Gaddafi is a tyrant who has lost the support of his own people, how do you explain the fact that the people of Tripoli have gathered around his palace compound as human shields? Do you claim that they have been herded there at gunpoint? What evidence do you have for this? If you continue to murder large numbers of civilians, and the so-called international support (already rapidly draining away) that you have continues to dwindle, what are your plans for containing the fallout?
Anaksha Fassin
March 21st, 2011 at 3:51 am
7. Since Gaddafi claims that his forces have, immediately after the passing of the resolution, declared a ceasefire and a halt to all military operations, what independent proof can you provide that he has, in reality, not done this? How can you prove that the so-called fighting in Benghazi, for example, is between attacking government forces and rebels, and not, for instance, between different groups of rebels? Isn't it true that your own Admiral says that the Libyan government is not attacking Benghazi? Can you prove, and the operative word is prove (since you are using it as a casus belli in beginning an unconstitutional war, proof is extremely important) that the rebels are not deliberately using false flag operations in order to draw you in? Can you also prove that your own forces are not illegally in the country and staging false flag operations, as they did in Iraq, to give you a pretext to intervene? Aren't your statements, and the information available so far, contradictory to the point of meaninglessness?
8. As a follow up to the last question, what do you have to say about allegations that you have already been involved on the ground since the early stages of the “rebellion”, and have been providing weapons, financing, training and support to particular rebel groups? What do you have to say about the MI-5 spy and his SAS bodyguards who were captured and expelled after arriving armed, and by helicopter, in the middle of the night? If members of these forces on the ground, assuming they exist, are killed or captured by government or rebel groups, what are your plans? Will you attack their captors in order to cover it up? Will you bomb TV stations showing footage of them being paraded in chains? Didn't you already bomb a TV station in Belgrade, and haven't you murdered inconvenient journalists in Iraq?
9. If your objective is to overthrow the Libyan government, what are your plans for Libya post-Gaddafi? Will you enforce an occupation a la Iraq? If so, how long are you prepared to carry on the occupation? Have you thought about the Iraq/Afghanistan style guerrilla resistance that this will provoke? Will you (as in Fallujah) destroy Libyan cities to “save” them? How will your bombing and shelling them be any different from what the rebels claim Gaddafi is doing now? If Libya begins to disintegrate, what will you do?
10. Assuming your objective is Libya minus Gaddafi, what kind of government do you envisage? Will you replace him with another dictator, as you did in Iraq? Will your replacement, like Gaddafi, torture your rendition victims in his jails for your benefit? If you speak of a democratic replacement for him, and a successor democratic government follows economic and social policies not in tune with your diktats, will you arm-twist the regime into compliance? Or will you have it overthrown in a coup as you did in Iran and all over Latin America?
11. You’re flying bombing raids in a nation where armed rebels, who possess their own armour and air force, are fighting an open conventional war against a government. Not far away are more than one nation where unarmed peaceful demonstrators are being openly shot down by armed government troops, in one instance by a foreign interventionist army whose only purpose is to keep the dictatorial monarchy of that country in place. Instead of intervening there, you are, openly, claiming that the situations are not the same. Can you explain how an armed rebel army needs your help more than an unarmed civilian population? Does it have to do with the oil the respective governments have? If not, what precisely lies behind this dichotomy?
Members of the Coalition of the Killing, what have you to say in your defence?
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 21st, 2011 at 4:04 am
Oops, I meant "GMOs", not "NGOs", the slip comes from a grudge I hold as a Serb. NGO Serbs can legitimately be considered GMOs though.
Bodkin
March 21st, 2011 at 4:36 am
A precedent is being set here.
Since the US military is now controlled by the UN rather than the Congress, one can foresee the day when the Security Council votes to form an international coalition to attack Israel, using the pretense of protecting the Palestinians.
It may sound far-fetched, but if Obama the World President and his Amazonian triumvirate get their way (especially Power and Rice), it might just come to pass, no matter how pro-Israel the Congress is. Considering the precedent set by the US attacking Libya, there must be people busy figuring out a way to draw an attack on Israel.
The question is, after dismissing this seemingly unrealistic scenario, will the anti-interventionists object as loudly to such an attack as they do with respect to Libya, or will they welcome the prospect with enthusiasm?
liveload
March 21st, 2011 at 5:04 am
There is more beaurocracy and process involved with naming a bridge than there is for starting wars. Libya is going to get turned into a bastard agglomeration of Kosovo and Iraq under the Clinton Regime.
RonJ
March 21st, 2011 at 5:22 am
If you want to win an argument with a utilitarian, you speak about utiltiy. If you want to win an argument with an ideologue, you argue principle. Justin often switches tactics. Right now, with 61% of Americans in favor of this latest excursion, the argument from principle will fall on deaf ears. Tell Americans that they will see their sons drafted, their gas go to $10 per gallon, their homes drop another 40% in value and their food cost double and you might get their attention.
epppie
March 21st, 2011 at 5:41 am
Why on earth do you, of all people, continue to buy into the left-wing myth of Obama the Man of Peace, Dragged Forlornly into War by his Advisors?
epppie
March 21st, 2011 at 5:44 am
Majorities respond quickly to propaganda. Over time, people's opinions tend to return to more reasonable and decent norms, when the propaganda subsides. What we need to do is remind them of what they really think.
epppie
March 21st, 2011 at 5:45 am
Propaganda creates a kind of mass intoxification.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 21st, 2011 at 6:21 am
Or how to explain "shoot first then ask questions" with an euphemism.
Thomas L. Knapp
March 21st, 2011 at 6:23 am
Personally, I would object to US intervention in the Israeli/Arab conflict, on either side, at least as vehemently as to any other intervention.
Which "Palestinians" does Power want to protect? The Palestinian Jews and Arabs with citizenship in the small Palestinian state ("Israelis"), the Palestinian Arabs with citizenship in the large Palestinian state ("Jordanians"), or those stateless Arabs arbitrarily designated "Palestinians" and kept in refugee camps, etc. by the Arab powers for 60-odd years now for anti-Israel propaganda purposes?
Little Paulie
March 21st, 2011 at 6:47 am
Ron Paul, 2012! All of the people on this board better vote and get active for the cause of liberty during the next election.
MvGuy
March 21st, 2011 at 6:48 am
The "O" has ZERO (0) credibility in the venue of PEACE…..
GreedRulesinDC
March 21st, 2011 at 7:01 am
Well, all we'd have to do is cut off all aid to Israel.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 21st, 2011 at 7:09 am
You know, I thought that your reply to my reaction about Anne Frank was a line of humour. But you have no humour.
If you weren't so obtuse, you would see that Libya is Kosovo II. Except that because of the inherent racism against Arabs, Gadhafi has been played with much less subtlety than Milosevic, and except that Westerners won't mind killing much more Arabs than they killed Serbs. Maybe also because of the Russians. Because they feel racism against Serbs too. Though not as acutely as against Arabs.
And since I don't feel like posting another reply to answer your comment about Samantha Power, I somehow have a hard time believing that she would have made it into the US administration if she truly meant business about Palestine.
I fully agree though with the Thomas L. Knapp's comment. Though I feel sympathy for Palestinians, I feel no antipathy against Israelis. In short, if foreigners can help them reach peace through dialogue, fine. But arming one side so it can exterminate the other, or worse, intervening to help the extermination, I'd be damned if I wished something like that.
liberranter
March 21st, 2011 at 7:17 am
The question is, after dismissing this seemingly unrealistic scenario, will the anti-interventionists object as loudly to such an attack as they do with respect to Libya, or will they welcome the prospect with enthusiasm?
While one could make the argument that Israel has "attacked" the U.S. on multiple fronts since its founding and is thus a legitimate target of retaliation, the majority of anti-interventionists would certainly NOT come out in favor of armed military action against our Puppet Master in the Levant. No, what most anti-interventionists would favor is a "starve the beast" approach, a far more effective tactic whereby all of Israel's taxpayer-funded subsidies are simply cut off completely and sanctions, which Israel is so fond of enforcing against its neighbors, applied against it with equal vigor, thus giving it a hefty dose of its own medicine. Of course since anti-interventionists have never been in positions of political power in the UFSA and never will be, your rhetorical question is really rather pointless.
liveload
March 21st, 2011 at 7:21 am
Encumbered forever by desire and ambition
There's a hunger still unsatisfied
Our weary eyes still stray to the horizon
Though down this road we've been so many times
liberranter
March 21st, 2011 at 7:25 am
Initially skeptical of intervention in Libya’s civil war, the President reportedly bowed to pressure from a triumvirate of women in his administration: Hillary Clinton, National Security Council director of “multilateral affairs” Samantha Power, and UN ambassador Susan Rice. Yet the President imposed some conditions, according to the New York Times:
"Imposed conditions?" You've GOT to be kidding! ROTFLMFAO! I can just as easily imagine my nine-year-old grandson "imposing conditions" upon his parents when they tell him that nine o'clock is his bedtime.
Pure theater, folks, and very poorly staged theater at that. For anyone who thinks that Barack Obama has any more leadership, authority, of decision-making power in this matter (or any other) than a caboose has in leading a freight train or a mall security guard has in using incapacitating force against a shoplifter, I have some nice beachfront property in Cheyenne, Wyoming you'll just love, and at bargain prices.
robt
March 21st, 2011 at 7:39 am
Girls gone wild.
How about a UN resolution to stop the madness? They didn't sign on for this…but then the US could veto it couldn't they…?
Actually, the veto is anti-democratic…how about veto the veto?
andy
March 21st, 2011 at 7:49 am
Has Libya attacked America? Has it threatened to do so? Has congress declared war on Libya? Such madness….
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 21st, 2011 at 7:56 am
Why does your beach front property in Cheyenne advert looks to me even more like a swindling attempt than if someone tried to sell me the Brooklyn bridge?
Bob D
March 21st, 2011 at 8:00 am
I can't wait to see how Obomber justifies massive expenditures to occupy Libya for a few decades. I think the best way is how some of the bloggers here have envisioned. Kill some civiilians and blame Gadafi. It doesn't have to be alot but the murders have to be grusome and emotional.
Bodkin
March 21st, 2011 at 8:08 am
Why so hostile? Might it have something to do with my (unanswered) disagreements with your points on other threads (re: "roughly half the world" voting against the no-fly-zone)?
I don't know if it's "racism" against Arabs, but I'm guessing that Westerners in general are growing as tired with Arab/Muslim unrest as people here are with Israelis. Their internal conflicts are endless. I think Intervening-In-Muslim-Wars Fatigue has set in.
I figured you would respond since I mentioned Serbia. I wasn't taking sides, I was just mentioning it as an example of multilateral action that DIDN'T take "years" to execute. But you might be right that Libya will be a protracted quagmire. Still, Gadhafi had killed perhaps 8000 people before the French intervened. It appears they did in fact save lives, their true motives notwithstanding.
As for Power, she's just one of several anti-Israel influences on Obama, and Obama has proven that he can be led by the nose. Under the right circumstances, danger exists if such people have the President's ear.
Bodkin
March 21st, 2011 at 8:28 am
Thanks for responding. I must admit I'm surprised that one of this site's VIP's recognizes that Jordan is in fact the Palestinian state, or at least one of them. That's what many people see as the only viable (and historical) two-state solution: Israel and Jordan (the latter for Palestinian Arabs who comprise 70% of Jordan anyway). But since it's so politically incorrect to discuss this option, it never really gets taken seriously. (Personally, I never thought there was room for two states west of the Jordan River, no matter who lived where.)
I'm even more pleasantly surprised by your recognition that those stateless Arabs have in fact been used (and even brutalized) by the surrounding Arab powers. Israel integrated the many Jews who were expelled from Arab nations, but Arabs who were displaced found a cold reception among their neighbors.
I believe the answer to your question is that Power wants to protect the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank. I don't fault her if she just wants to prevent more Arab casualties, but her plan would just make a horrendous situation even worse.
Bodkin
March 21st, 2011 at 8:37 am
If Israel were the USA's "Puppet Master" as you claim, Obama would not be attacking Gadhafi right now. For that matter, Obama wouldn't have pushed Mubarak to leave at the first sign of riots. In both cases, there's a big risk that hardline Islamists might rise to power, thus jeopardizing Israel's security.
Considering recent developments, one might just as easily claim that the Mullahs are Obama's puppet master, as ridiculous as that sounds.
trigon1962
March 21st, 2011 at 8:48 am
The US has no intentions of helping Libyan civilian's, nor does it care to.
We are there for oil, same as the other wars (Afghanistan has a lucrative oil transit route that goes through Kandahar, which just so happens to be where our troops are concentrated).
If I had to guess, I would say that we're doing this with the knowledge that our dollar will become soon worthless, so at least we'll have oil.
Bodkin
March 21st, 2011 at 8:52 am
I checked out your facebook page. I too am enchanted by Rachmaninov's 2nd Piano Concerto, especially the Adagio. Not to mention Tchaikovsky's String Serenade and Violin Concerto, the first movements in particular. And let's not forget certain preludes by Scriabin and Moszkowski (I can suggest some if you're not familiar), the first movement of Elgar's Cello Concerto, and so on. So I'm not all bad…
Terrance&Philip
March 21st, 2011 at 8:59 am
61% in favor of this latest incursion???? Good heaven, have all of them forgotten that similarly noble reasons were offered for invading Iraq and Afghanistan, also?
It's true: You'll never lose money betting against the intelligence of the American people.
Terrance&Philip
March 21st, 2011 at 9:04 am
"Operation Oddysey Dawn" is too ridiculous a name for Barky's attempt to prove he's got a pair by this act of aggression against Libya..
I propose we rename it, "Operation Spank the Monkey."
Terrance&Philip
March 21st, 2011 at 9:05 am
Immediately rescind the Bush tax cuts to pay for this latest misadventure.
RickR30
March 21st, 2011 at 9:22 am
You're somehow assuming that the American people support this latest war. Not sure that is the case.
RickR30
March 21st, 2011 at 9:23 am
And the lives lost in these attacks?
RickR30
March 21st, 2011 at 9:24 am
Like that will ever happen.
RickR30
March 21st, 2011 at 9:40 am
"It may sound far-fetched"? It is utterly farfetched
Vojkan.Milosavljevic
March 21st, 2011 at 9:59 am
When emotion and self-indulging righteousness blur reason. Do you folks have any feeling for the child brought to urgencies bleeding?
RickR30
March 21st, 2011 at 10:04 am
Poor Obamination of Desolation. He just can't assert his authority and leadership. The neo-cons, wall-street, banks, corporate America, aipac, everyone gets to decide what this country does, except him.
"Obama taking the lead on domestic matters." I don't think he has had the lead on any matter whatsoever since he took office. It has all been dictated by others and he just obeys. By filling government position all with Clintonites he made clear early on that the job of president was too much for him. With the Clintonites representing the other side of the same war and destruction racket, and with a complete absence of leadership and the part of the Obamination, it should be clear that between Dems and Reps there is no difference whatsoever. Both need to be driven out of Washington with sticks and made to pay for their actions. Can't folks see that that nothing changes if the "other" party wins. Oh, and is anyone aware that we are completely broke. I don't know how many more terms of ClintonObamaMcCainBush this country and the world can take.
Montaigne
March 21st, 2011 at 10:16 am
I might add, that the fact, the the british SAS people got arrested and thrown out, might have been the one happening, that convinced the empire people, that the momentum should be taken from the revolting people and firmly gripped by the imperialists. Because otherwise they ignore completely Bahrain etc. It is NOT killing people, that is bad, but losing control! But I suppose that this is obvious for anyone who can reason and observe?
Vojkan.Milosavljevic
March 21st, 2011 at 11:52 am
R O T F L
Sam
March 21st, 2011 at 11:53 am
In contrast to Tunisien and Egypt the demonstrators in Libyia were armed from the start. At least Gadhafi has not driven his country into bankruptcy. Healthcare, education (from kindergarten to uni) for free, advanced women rights,1 liter gasoline for 6 cents, very affordable housing, zero debts, invested about 70 billions $ abroad (US, EU, Africa). It's perhaps about oil and gas.
CVC10
March 21st, 2011 at 12:34 pm
I can't understand why our government is so hostile to Gadhafi. He is only doing what our "greatest president", Abraham Lincoln, did. That is, he is trying to preserve his Union.
CVC10
March 21st, 2011 at 12:47 pm
For all of his "With malice toward none, with charity for all,…", Ol' Abe showed little concern for the devastation, destruction and death wreaked by Sherman in his famous "march to the sea" and subsequently. Gadhafi could be the Abraham Lincoln of the middle east. But being an unreconstructed Confederate, maybe I'm a little bit prejudiced.
Bradley Asztalos
March 21st, 2011 at 1:05 pm
This is absurd. Did Lincoln have his troops fire on unarmed protesters in Washington, DC? Is that what led to the north south split–because of that famous rally the south was having in DC and Lincoln brought out tanks and anti-aircraft weaponry and shot it into a crowd of protesters from Atlanta? That's an amazing revision of history.
Another Obama War
March 21st, 2011 at 1:33 pm
[...] Re: Another Obama War Obama has put all of his chips on the table and all he has is a pair. Power is a former journalist who says she was “obsessed” with Bosnia during the run-up to the Balkan war, and whose “human rights” agenda is a perfect reflection of the liberal “humanitarian” interventionist mindset. She was briefly famous when, during the Democratic presidential primary, she decried Hillary Clinton as a “monster.” Well, it looks like she’s more than made her peace with the monster – and, indeed, become a bit of a monster herself, – as the two team up to push us into yet another Middle Eastern war. Married to Cass “Let’s Infiltrate the Internet” Sunstein, a White House adviser, Power is indeed obsessed with dispensing “social justice” worldwide as an instrument of US foreign policy. If she had her way – and she may yet – US troops would be in Darfur, Rwanda, and any number of Third World hellholes, nation-building, handing out goodies, and getting shot at by the grateful populace. Susan Rice, former Undersecretary of State for African Affairs during the Clinton administration, is yet another “humanitarian” in search of “genocides” to avenge. Like Power, she believes we ought to have intervened in Rwanda, and is part of a hard-liner clique, including her mentor Madeleine Albright and the late Richard Holbrooke, that holds the view the US must take a more interventionist stance in Africa, which, Rice avers, is undergoing its “first world war.” And she means for us to take sides in that war. When Ethiopia invaded Somalia, in 2007, Ms. Rice cheered the advance of the Ethiopian dictator Mele Zenawi’s armies as they rampaged through the country. Zenawi’s regime is now targeting neighboring Eritrea. Will the White House, under Rice’s tutelage, support that, too? Libya’s Slippery Slope by Justin Raimondo — Antiwar.com [...]
CVC10
March 21st, 2011 at 1:41 pm
Hey Bradley:
guess you don't know your history very well. For example you are apparently unaware that there were no tanks nor antiaircraft weaponry in the 1860's. But Massachussetts troops trespassing in Baltimore on April 19, 1861 did fire on innocent protersters and of course that was only the beginning of a long long string of Lincolnian abuse of people who opposed his tyranny. Take a year or two too learn some history of the period and then get back to me with your apology.
RickR30
March 21st, 2011 at 1:57 pm
France, who leads this whole enterprise, has the most nefarious of all interests apparently. Just some form of grandstanding and paying for his previous sins on the part of that buffoon of Sarkozy.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 21st, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Well, suggest me works by Moszkowski. I don't know about him. There are so many pieces, if I had mentioned Elgar, I would have passed for a prig.
Thomas L. Knapp
March 21st, 2011 at 2:20 pm
I am not "one of this site's VIPs." I don't, for example, set the site's editorial line (my first piece printed here, if I recall correctly, was a letter taking issue with what appeared to be the site's editorial line on, um, Israel). Not sure where that letter is at, although it was in the site archives last time I looked. Here's something similar if you're interested.
That said, I believe that if it came down to a real possibility of US intervention to, for example, protect the borders of a declared "Palestinian" state in the West Bank, those who work and write at Antiwar.com would unanimously or near-unanimously oppose such an intervention.
Personally, I think that US aid to Israel (and to its Arab neighbors) and US intervention in the region has helped perpetuate the conflict. Those billions of dollars are an incentive to keep the thing simmering (and occasionally boiling over) rather than settle it, and they also distort the balance of power on which any settlement must be devised.
jackbootstate
March 21st, 2011 at 2:52 pm
This is nothing more than Washington inserting itself into the politics of the Arab world the only way it knows how. That would be the use of military aggression, if it can't get its way through bribery, as it did in Egypt from 1979-2011. I don't think this intervention is happening just because they don't like Gaddafi. I think they're doing it because it opens the door for a U.S. military base in the Benghazi area. This would put U.S. military power right in the middle of the two main epicenters of the current Arab Uprising. It's like bet hedging. If they can't maintain control in Egypt and Tunisia, then they will have to look new allies elsewhere.
The Benghazi based opposition is clearly in no position to even set up a separate state to manage even Easter Libya, much less run all of the Libya. They have no seasoned guerrilla army and no political parties to manage the country's transition following the fall of the Gaddafi. This is the perfect setting for Washington to step in and offer up the temptations of easy living that comes from being a U.S. ally. What inevitably follows is a U.S. military base and the customary bribe money to keep the local elite in line. I think this is what is going to happen in Benghazi.
The only question that remains is are they going to keep Libya together, or partition it? I wouldn't be surprised if they go for partition. The Tripoli side of the country would be more difficult to control, while the Benghazi side would be easier to control.
Uzun
March 21st, 2011 at 2:52 pm
The most accurate portrayal of a PRO-WAR policies (as opposed to ANTI-WAR that this site stands for: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-83830849…
Jan Burton
March 21st, 2011 at 2:55 pm
It is simply stunning that the west is again foolish enough to wage war in an Arab country. Have the last 10 years taught us nothing?
We should never come to the aid of any Arab faction in a war. It is a no-win situation that will earn us nothing but treachery and hatred.
The moment a civilian is killed (even if forced to be human shields) we will again be seen as infidel imperialists intent only on stealing oil. Just watch.
The real scandal here is that the Arab world would leave the rescuing of the Libyan revolution to the west in the first place – all the while apparently expecting us to do so without hurting anyone.
If they have a problem with the way we enforce no-fly zones then they should STFU, get off their rear ends and enforce it themselves!
Let the Arab world handle this 100%. If that means that Ghadafi brutally crushes the revolt while the Arab world looks on then so be it. Even the most well-intentioned military action in that part of the world will always be an utterly thankless task.
Uzun
March 21st, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Let me count the ways (admittedly, I may skip some, since the assasination of Salvador Allende does not quite measure up to a war – the Bay of Pigs fiasco in the 60s is also another example of failed war, but those few aside let focus on these freedom loving events after the end of WW2 (1945):
1. The 38th Paralel 1950 to 1953
2. United States occupation of the Dominican Republic (1965–1966)
3. First fall of Saigon 1955 and American entry in 1962
4. Granada invasion 1983
5. Panama invasion 1989
6. First Gluf War 1990
7. Attack on F. R. Y. (Serbia) – Bosnia war 1992
8. attack on Serbia (Kosovo war) 1999
9 Second gulf war (Iraq/Afghanistan) 2003
10. Invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan 2005
11. Attack on Libya 2011
Feel free to make corrections (additions) to the above partial list. When we think back, weren't all of our enemies very, very, very EVIL? WICKED? COMMUNISTS? ALL OF THE ABOVE?
Do we ever stop or do we carry on like the lunatics we elect for office, just look at Hillary and Bill (Clinton) an absolute certainty that there is one more war in the offing.
Thank you, thank you.
Uzun
March 21st, 2011 at 3:22 pm
Jesus Harold Christ!
I skipped the overthrow of Mosadegh in Iran (another failed war which proved to be the path to taking an entire American Embassy hostage, the fuel crisis, the Ayatolah Rhullah Khomeini's power now inherited by Asmedinejad – yet another war in the offing. Every 10 years we are off so our children can learn world geography and pronounce some exotic names like Nicaragua, Panama, Granada, Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Serbia – is there anybody we didn't fight yet? Including the time of Thomas Jefferson this is our second arrival to Libya.
conumishu
March 21st, 2011 at 3:26 pm
I see. Since most of the oil comes from the east and most of the foreigners (assorted egyptians, other arabs, africans, asians) working there under the supervision of european and chinese foremen could be considered the slaves, then the slave owners are the easterners. Naturally, England and France came to help against the despised gaddafist "yankee" abolitionists. Makes sense.
I know, it's the American "civil war" narrative as opposed to the "secession war" narrative, but don't Libyans have the same right to abuse and delude themselves as did/do the Americans?
@lesterhalfjr
March 21st, 2011 at 3:27 pm
I think Obama is regretting this one already.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 21st, 2011 at 3:28 pm
Curiosity. Have you gone as far to give an ear to my piano?
Pour yourself a brandy, slump in an armchair, and just sip swallow by sallow.
conumishu
March 21st, 2011 at 3:35 pm
What if the "easterners" don't want to proceed to a referendum regarding their "independence", is UN security council of globalist aficionados going to force them to? Or we simply embrace another blissful international innovation where UNSC can decree the sprouting of new countries?
andy
March 21st, 2011 at 3:50 pm
Not exactly. Those "innocent" protesters were armed with bricks, paving stones, knives and pistols. They killed four soldiers and wounded 36 more. They were a violent mob seeking conflict.
andy
March 21st, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Do you really want to go there? The confederacy treated union pow's at Andersonville in an inhuman manner. As many as a hundred men a day died in the summer of 1864. There were many cases of surrendered black soldiers being executed afterwards. Many southern 'partisans' were just cold-blooded murderers too.
jackbootstate
March 21st, 2011 at 4:00 pm
Unfortunately, I don't think the opinions of the Easterners is really going to matter. Even if they were well organized and could form their own state, they're still dealing with foreign imperialists who want to impose their will on them. I think Washington will want a "military base" (a colony in reality) in the Benghazi area. The other aspect of Washington's current mission is to find a yes man, stooge to put in charge of Benghazi, a la Baghdad, Kirkuk and Kabul.
Bodkin
March 21st, 2011 at 6:05 pm
Elgar had his moments (did you know he was self-taught?). The stirring flourishes in his Cello Concerto have the same appeal as similar passages by Rachmaninov and Tchaikovsky.
Anyway, the works by Moszkowski I was thinking of were actually etudes (the preludes were by Scriabin). You could try the 15 Etudes de Virtuosite, Op. 72, such as no.1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 12. No. 11 is brilliant; no. 4 is quite lyrical. For a recording, I suggest Claudio Colombo.
Simpler etudes include Op. 91, no. 20 in G-flat. It's lovely. I like no. 6 too. Short and sweet.
mee
March 21st, 2011 at 6:18 pm
Obama himself asserted about two years ago that the president's ordering military action without an act of Congress (except when USA is directly attacked) was unconstitutional. Why don't republicans move to impeach him?!
andy
March 21st, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Oddysey Dawn? Is it just me or does that sound like a porn star?
Nick Mulgrave
March 21st, 2011 at 8:15 pm
Shouldn't the US actually try win a war before they go ahead and start another? I have to admit that the US is pretty good at starting wars (Any fool can do that, and a fool actually did start a war in Iraq and Afghanistan – Remember those wars guys?) but the US never seems to win any. After the trillions of dollars spent on the military and the number of wars the US has fought over the last century you would think they could at least try to win at least 1 war before starting another. Or even be capable of winning one. Anyway to all our friends in the US I would just like to say keep trying guys. after all the horror and killing and destruction you have brought to the planet you might actually accomplish something worthwhile one of these days, even if its only something like bankrupting yourselves into oblivion. Good work, keep it up.
jackbootstate
March 22nd, 2011 at 12:51 am
Remember what the ostensible purpose of the first attack on Iraq was? Expelling Iraq from Kuwait. Of course, after Iraq was expelled from Kuwait, Washington just pack its bags and went home. That's just not the way the greatest military power in world history works. Especially in a region of such strategic importance. Obama and the generals are insisting that there will be "no boots on the ground" in Libya. I can't believe that there won't be boots on the ground eventually, and eventually a military base, Washington's version of an embassy, in the Benghazi area. Especially with Washington's hold on Egypt weakened. When Washington flexes it military muscle in an area where it doesn't have a military base, it ends up building a base in the area eventually.
Nick Mulgrave
March 22nd, 2011 at 2:15 am
"Oddysey does Tripoli" Get ready for lots of loads getting dropped. And the best part is that we will also all end up getting screwed as well. Don't you love a happy ending.
emsnews
March 22nd, 2011 at 5:09 am
This is the Hubbert Oil Peak, actually, it is a VOLCANO. All oil pumping parts of the planet are seeing the stresses from the super deep drilling of wells in the Gulf of Mexico to raging battles over oil pumping nations that are weaker than NATO. Russia just announced that the EU and US must stop bombing Libya. Russia is an oil pumping export nation but unlike the others has not only nuclear bombs and a real army, navy and air force but also a very powerful ally, China. The NATO/Japan coalition has been hammered by a major earthquake/nuclear meltdown event and Russia will eventually end up leading the oil pumping nations in a military way as the Saudis realize they will be toast if they expect the NATO countries to protect them from the Shi'ite uprisings.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 22nd, 2011 at 6:11 am
I love all three movements of Rachmaninov 2nd. I have several recordings but my favourite is Richter's interpretation with the Warszaw philharmonic under Wislocki, on my favourite brand of piano, a Boesendorfer.
As for Elgar, I know he is self-taught. Actually, that's how I've learnt of him, googling one day for self-taught musicians, because I am myself self-taught. But I have a completely different view on music and I loathe Imperialism, though he has some good stuff.
Thanks for Moszkowski.
Now to the subject. I never said that Libya could be a quagmire. Libyan military seem to never have heard of Rommel and how to fight in the desert. If Americans got their way so easy in the ME, and if the Israelis demolished so easily Arab armies, it's because Arab satraps are relying on superior fire power rather than trying tactics. A sound minded military would have painted those tanks the French so easily took out in sand colour. A sound minded military would have buried equipment so that only guns emerge. A sound minded military would have scattered equipment instead of aligning it. All things that would force enemy combat planes to get down at shooting distance if they wanted to reach their targets. And that list of blunders is far from being exhaustive. It's just for a start.
Stanislav Kalenic
March 22nd, 2011 at 8:12 am
Justin,
You are most certainly one of the more sound minds in our country today. I am surprised that following escaped you:
a) We (Americans) are a peaceful nation who will not wage wars – I am beginning to have some doubts because of (Korea, Dominican Republic, Granada, Panama, 1st Gulg war, 2nd Gulf war, attack on Serbia, attack on Iraq, spreading into Afghanistan, Libya, not to mention the overthrow of Mosadegh of Iran resulting in Pahlavi, resulting in Ayatollah Rhullah Khomeini, resulting in Ahmadeinejad, not to mention the killings of Slavador Allende (Chile), Ernesto Che Guevara, Bolivia, Bay of Pigs fiasco, and many other similarly silent actions that could have become wars but we failed by just a tad.
a-1. George Washington clearly stated that meddling in foreign affairs is not in the best interest of the Republic
(quote from a study "The French ambassador to the U.S.—the charismatic, audacious "Citizen" Edmond Genet—had meanwhile been appearing nationwide, drumming up considerable support for the French cause. Washington was deeply irritated by this subversive meddling, and when Genet allowed a French-sponsored warship to sail out of Philadelphia against direct presidential orders, Washington demanded that France recall Genet." – by Miller Center for Public Affairs University of Virginia
a-2. John Quincy Adams (our 6th president) during the Barbary Wars as Vice President to Thomas Jefferson (he was reluctant to support America's involvement in continuing wars far from home – source Wikipedia)
a-3. Edward Abbey – "a true patriot must always be ready to fight his government to save his country"
b. The media support of every war we were in (the lies about the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the number of troops deployed, etc. etc.) – media's service to the sitting government being supportive instead of being independent.
c. The American public being anesthetized with imagery from these "humanitarian actions" – recently we stopped calling these events by their rightful names WARS – now we are involved in "humanitarian actions" to save some oppressed minority.
d. Routine by-passing of the Congress by shifting the decision-making to the U.N., the French or somebody else so that we ("as partners") get into some stupid ass war. Both Bush presidents along with Clinton did exactly what Obama did (they all bypassed the Congress)
Isn't it a little odd that El Presidente was in Brazil with a perfect alibi while hilarious Hilary was lobbying the EU on his behalf?
e. All the above is contrary to the US Constitution (the President is merely an administrator of the will of the people not a sole decision maker) unless there is an imminent danger to American soil and American interests at home, promoted by Oregon Senator Wayne Lyman Morse during the Johnson and Kennedy administrations.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 22nd, 2011 at 8:30 am
Brahms is my favourite composer.
Sam
March 22nd, 2011 at 9:44 am
When will the dispossessed, oppressed and trapped palestinians be helped, liberated? The hypocrisy is beyond belief.
liberranter
March 22nd, 2011 at 10:04 am
A normal, decent human being would not only regret it, but would never have set him/herself up to have to do it in the first place. Of course the term "normal, decent human being" doesn't apply to those who occupy the asylum at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
liberranter
March 22nd, 2011 at 10:06 am
America is a 'Christian nation' – right? – of course we would quickly crucify Jesus if He ever came to the US – we're Christians – that does NOT mean we follow Jesus.
Perfectly, and I do mean PERFECTLY stated!
Stanislav Kalenic
March 22nd, 2011 at 10:20 am
Justin,
You're active here, at Chronicles and elsewhere, won't you take a look at this (in my mind uncontested, video clip): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-83830849…
I am looking forward to your views (here and elsewhere) especially when it comes to the media's brain-washing the American public in order to garner support for all sorts of questionable "humanitarian" missions.
Bodkin
March 22nd, 2011 at 10:23 am
I'm not on facebook. Maybe one of these days. From what people have told me, it's very addictive, and I don't want to spend any more time online.
When I post on pro-Israel and other sites, I have lots of support. My popularity or lack thereof depends on the venue.
Speaking of Israel, I wonder if a slight modification of your sentence will still ring true:
"A country which has such unanimity against it can't be all bad."
Stanislav Kalenic
March 22nd, 2011 at 10:26 am
Palestinians will earn their place in history only after they divest themselves from Hamas, Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations. Admittedly they too need some world help and respect but not while they shell Israeli schools, hospitals, harbor terrorists and allow easy access to Israel through the ever wider gates of the Gaza strip.
C'mon, get serious, we can't (and may not want) to help Charles Manson and some others (including Palestinians – for now).
Bodkin
March 22nd, 2011 at 10:56 am
Well, nobody's perfect.
(Just kidding.)
Actually, there are many works by Brahms I like too. The Clarinet Quintet, the famous Waltz in A-flat, other piano music like Op.118 Ballade in G minor, 3rd Symphony, Violin Concerto (especially 3rd movement), etc. Are some of these your favorites too? Did you know that someone once asked Brahms for his autograph, and he wrote out the music to Strauss's Blue Danube Waltz, and signed it, "Unfortunately not by Johannes Brahms."
I think the moderators might object to this off-topic stuff, so I'll leave it at that.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 22nd, 2011 at 11:15 am
I'd love to visit Haïfa and pray at the wall. Invite me.
mike
March 22nd, 2011 at 11:18 am
Sorry, but Libya cannot be Kosovo, the Geography is completely different, desert vs. mountains. The histories of these places are also completely different, but it's all about your "feelings". LOL
mike
March 22nd, 2011 at 11:23 am
Are you saying that the state of Israel is a supporter of Gaddafi? Why?
Sam
March 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 am
Expanding illegal settlements in the WB and East Jerusalem, uprooting trees, stealing land and water, mobbing and killing palestinians daily are not friendly acts.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 22nd, 2011 at 11:40 am
I read about it. Did you know that he and Tchaikovsky made start Dvorak's career? My favourite is his 2nd piano concerto. B flat is my favourite scale and yet I'll never be able to even approach his genius.
Stanislav Kalenic
March 22nd, 2011 at 11:44 am
Huey Long: If fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag, waving the cross, and preaching free markets (trans. economic imperialism.)
Dr. Martin Luther King: Madness of militarism:
"A time comes when silence is betrayal, that time has come for us. Men do not easily question the motives of their government especially at times of war. Such time is now, and I could not raise my voice again if I didn't speak out today, against the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today – my own government…."
1964 Senior Sentaor Wayne Morse Oregon: Foreign policy belongs to the people of the American people, once give the full facts and the truth, only then the Congress can act to represent their constituents and allow the President to act – completely in accordance with the Constitution.
New Orleans Parish court: Jim Garrisson holds Lyndon Johnson as an accomplice after the fact in the trial of E. Clay Shaw – where Shaw was acquitted and Garrisson satanized.
Way too many admirable Americans who clearly oppose what our governments do "on our behalf". Too bad that many of our presidents were trained lawyers (and very well trained at that), so that they can bend the Laws just enough
Dwight D. Eisenhower's farewell address:
Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.
American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions.
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central, it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.
I am all spent now, and need a nap.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 22nd, 2011 at 12:07 pm
The Geography notwithstanding, have you paid attention to the rhetoric? And you obviously are ignorant of Kosovo geography. Prokletije mountains separate it from Albania. Apart from that, it's a flat plain with only a few up hills to stave off boredom.
Stanislav Kalenic
March 22nd, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Took a nap and now I feel even worse. I grew more cynical. If we don't save ourselves – who will? All those people saving the whales or the spotted owl, clean air act, the Everglades, Alaskan wilderness' brown bear, are those same whales, brown bear, clean air and spotted owls going to return the favor?
Unlikely.
Not that there is anything wrong with the care for the environment, but there are more pressing issues affecting us and birds and the bees and the brown bear and the clean air.
The issue at hand is of greatest possible concern to this entire nation – and we are not short of bright men and women (I had quoted many in my prior posts). I have been following Justin's fabulous comments here and on Chronicles (along with Dr. Srdja Trifkovic, Julia Gorin, Dr. Clyde Wilson, etc. etc.) – so we know we have the brain power to change things (I hate to use the thinly worn "Obamism" – change), but change we need and in a large measure. Our banks are getting more obese than only fat, we bailed half of Detroit, we are not done in Iraq (Afghanistan, possibly Iran), but we found our way into Libya. Schools are laying off teachers. Our schoolbooks are full of overt lies, our children don't need to see their parents live hand to mouth (unless the parents sell out to some higher power and somehow manage a semi-decent existence) – just seeing what goes around and the price of truth is enough for our kids to become first class liars, with rubber backbones, swinging which ever way the wind blows. Am I the only one to start a new revolution in this (adoptive – and great country of ours? I don't think so – "wouldn't be prudent" (G. H. W. Bush), but in some fashion or another "we have to stay the course" (G. W. Bush), and keep our voices heard to the point of critical mass and see that a few more Amendments are added to protect the Constitution from our Presidents. I bet Justin has an ace up his sleeve.
Bodkin
March 22nd, 2011 at 3:12 pm
I would if I lived there, but I'm not Israeli. Sorry if I gave you that impression. But hopefully you'll still check it out sometime.
Stanislav Kalenic
March 22nd, 2011 at 3:33 pm
No precedent at all.
Bush did the same thing, so did Clinton. It's the most efficient way to bypass the Congress and enter the war while Obama has an alibi being in Brazil – Hillary is doing cartwheels for EU in order to coax them to take the lead.
The Gulf of Tonkin incident was completely fabricated in order to get the Congress to allow Eisenhower, Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson to coax the president into entering the war. So, there are many ways to bypass the congress or mislead them cleverly to vote your way. The media is working very well as an extended hand of the Pentagon (when needed). Hussein and Norega were both installed by the CIA (our service), and later killed off, (imprisoned) respectively also by us.
Alan MacDonald
March 22nd, 2011 at 3:41 pm
Justin, are you covering up for Obama — who has been fully involved in this plot from day one?
This whole scheme is based on Tom Barnett's 2004 explosive and heavily studied book "The Pentagon's New Map" — in which the entire swath of countries he calls the "GAP" are to be absorbed into the "OLD CORE" (which is the Western empire), and to be prevented from falling under the influence of the "NEW CORE" (easy to guess — BRIC).
The geo-strategic plan is an up-dated version of the 1990's PNAC plan that precipitated the Iraq and Afpak wars — but now expanding to include N. Africa, all Middle East, and South Central Asia.
This is a MUCH bigger and more carefully planned global war map for the current global Empire (politely called the "CORE") to engage in during the 2011 to 2020 time-frame.
Anyone who does not include in their research and analysis Barnett's "The Pentagon's New Map" is woefully underestimating the breadth, depth, and scope of this plan to expand from Iraq and Afpak wars to the full "GAP" (from Tunisia through Libya, Egypt, the whole Middle East, and all the way to the Chinese and Indian boarders).
As Cheney was infamous for saying, this is "BIG TIME" for the global Empire — and must be stopped before it precipitates WWIII.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
Liberty over violent empire — People's Party
eric siverson
March 22nd, 2011 at 4:21 pm
I might favor intervening in a honest Humanitarian crisses but I don't trust our goverenment enough to select the right side . In Yugoslavia we intervened and helped the criminals make more victims . This has happend so often that I think it best if we forget about foreign aid and intervention .
Bodkin
March 22nd, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Actually, the specific precedent being set is based on a new doctrine called "Responsibility to Protect", abbreviated R2P, which is being promoted by Samantha Power, She's being credited (more than Hillary and Susan Rice) with pushing Obama to attack Libya.
I hope Raimondo researches R2P and writes about Samantha Power's role in its emergence as a new ideology with the potential for more U.S.-led armed interventions around the world, with Israel being the big target.
Bodkin
March 22nd, 2011 at 5:02 pm
It's not that Israel "supports" Gadhafi. It's a choice between the devil you know and the devil you don't. If Gadhafi goes, he might very well turn out to have been the lesser of two evils, the worse evil being a hardcore Islamic fundamentalist regime rising to power in Libya. A regime like that might be closely allied with terrorists like the Israel-hating Mullahs, or the Israel-hating Hamas, or the Israel-hating Hezbollah, or perhaps the Israel-hating al-Qaida, whom Gadhafi has in fact been fighting. The enemy of my enemy…
Philalethes
March 22nd, 2011 at 6:48 pm
"…the President reportedly bowed to pressure from a triumvirate of women in his administration…."
Believe that should be "triumfeminate". "Triumvirate" is specifically three *men* (vir = man). Gotta get these details right.
Bodkin
March 22nd, 2011 at 7:15 pm
No, I didn't know that. It doesn't surprise me, though. It's traditional to have mentors. I think Schumann helped Brahms get started, for example. Mozart probably helped Beethoven a little when he commented on the young improviser, "Keep your eye on that boy. He'll make a big noise in the world someday."
You probably know this, but Brahms and Wagner were rivals and inspired two competing schools of disciples. Considering my heritage, I shouldn't like Wagner's music, but I must admit some of it is truly glorious, like the overtures from Meistersinger and especially Tannhauser.
By the way, you've given me another reason to admire Brahms, since I really like Dvorak's 9th.
mah29001
March 22nd, 2011 at 8:15 pm
Hmm, I wonder why you Justin, are ignoring Iran celebrating the Libyan "rebels"? Wasn't there a Lebanese cleric who went missing in Libya during the 80's? Are you not concern that your so-called War Party doesn't really work with Israel, but for Iran in letting Iran win in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya? Iran's Supreme Leader praised the revolts in the ME and NA (Northern Africa) as part of a promotion of Islamic Awakening…
mah29001
March 22nd, 2011 at 8:16 pm
In other words…it is like Vietnam, except we're helping Iran out here in Libya…forcing Gaddafi to cave to promote the rebels in a likely coalition government or if not let them enter a new Libyan government without Gaddafi. The Iranians are acting like the French did when they helped us.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 23rd, 2011 at 2:36 am
Tanhäuser overture is special. You can't like Dvorak's 9th if you don't like it. I also love the Slavonic dances, the violin and cello concerto and Stabat Mater by Dvorak. I love to talk music. Send me a message.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
March 23rd, 2011 at 2:37 am
The cello concerto, I mixed up with Brahms.
peter symmons
April 15th, 2011 at 11:47 am
what can we do to impress upon the government that what they are doing in our name is not our wish
Voices Against the Libyan War « Politik
April 24th, 2012 at 6:58 am
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