While most of the rest of the world, minus Glenn Beck, was celebrating the overthrow of one of the world’s most repressive dictatorships, over in Israel – which bills itself as the only real democracy in the region – they were sour-faced and ready to rumble. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly told his cabinet to shut up about the Egyptian events, but they just couldn’t contain themselves as the specter of democracy in the Arab world moved closer to realization: We are watching these events, said Netanyahu, with “vigilance and worry.” The worry is rooted, he said, in the possibility that “in a situation of chaos, an organized Islamist body can seize control of a country. It happened in Iran. It happened in other instances.”
No sooner had these words escaped his mouth than Israel’s amen corner in this country and around the world echoed the “Egypt is Iran” meme until it had found its way into nearly every news report, and virtually every public statement by a major politician on the Egyptian events. No “analysis” of the situation was complete without a comparison to the Iranian revolution of 1979, a violent upsurge by Shi’ite radicals – in spite of the fact that this was a completely non-violent movement organized by urban students with a taste for tech-savvy tactics and secular views. To these people facts are merely burdensome details that can be safely ignored when constructing a narrative that fits their agenda – and their agenda, as always, is putting Israel first.
It’s interesting to note that Hosni Mubarak, holed up in his presidential palace at the height of the protests, put in a call not to the US State Department, or the White House, but to a member of the Israeli Knesset, one Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, a former cabinet minister who dealt with the Egyptian tyrant during the negotiations that set up the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty. Ha’aretz reports:
“‘He had very tough things to say about the United States,’ said Ben-Eliezer … He gave me a lesson in democracy and said: ‘We see the democracy the United States spearheaded in Iran and with Hamas, in Gaza, and that’s the fate of the Middle East. They may be talking about democracy but they don’t know what they’re talking about and the result will be extremism and radical Islam.”
Mubarak also gave a very Netanyahu-like prediction about the probable outcome of the Egyptian upsurge:
“He contended the snowball (of civil unrest) won’t stop in Egypt and it wouldn’t skip any Arab country in the Middle East and in the Gulf. He said ‘I won’t be surprised if in the future you see more extremism and radical Islam and more disturbances – dramatic changes and upheavals. He repeated the sentence, ‘I have been serving my country, Egypt, for 61 years. Do they want me to run away? I won’t run away. Do they want to throw me out? I won’t leave. If need be, I will be killed here.’”
Poor mistreated misunderstood Mubarak – with only the Israelis’ shoulder to cry on! His anger at the Americans is perhaps matched, these days, by his anger at the Swiss – who appear to have frozen his Swiss bank accounts, reported to contain as much as $70 billion.
Israeli rancor toward the Americans was given voice by presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee, who – speaking from Israeli soil – unleashed his invective at Washington for “abandoning” Mubarak. The Israelis, said the Huckster, are wondering aloud about the likelihood of the US coming to their aid in their hour of need given that they’ve thrown Mubarak overboard without so much as a by your leave. “We should at least acknowledge what a good ally he has been for all these years,” scolded the fundamentalist Christian former governor-cum-preacher:
“Even the left wing Israeli press has expressed profound disappointment when the US said nothing positive about Mubarak. What they were looking for was some acknowledgment that he has been an ally and a friend. It’s been good for Israel, and good for the US. If they’re that quick to bail on Mubarak, then would they do the same to us?”
Oblivious to the implications of a comparison between Mubarak’s regime and the Israelis, the Huckster prattles on, demanding that the US praise a bloody dictator whose torture chambers stain the conscience of the “free world.” Which raises an interesting point: why are the Israelis so frightened by the example of an Arab populace rising up and non-violently overthrowing a US-supported tyrant? Supposedly they fear the breaking of the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty, and the dropping of the blockade of Gaza on the Egyptian side, but I, for one, don’t believe it for a minute. The Egyptian military is in firm control of this aspect of the situation – and, as dependent as Egypt’s generals are on the US for military aid to the tune of over $1 billion annually, one can hardly imagine the new Egypt embarking on a military campaign against the Jewish state. As for Gaza, the Israelis rejected a proposal by the Egyptian military to send more troops to the Sinai to control the border – so they can’t be too worried about that.
No, what they are really worried about is the prospect of the Palestinians, and their own downtrodden Arab population, taking up the non-violent insurrectionist tactics of the Egyptian pro-democracy movement and shaking the very foundations of the Israeli state. This would focus world attention on the horrific conditions in the occupied territories, and expose the true nature of the Israeli state as a repressive Sparta with its foot planted firmly on the necks of its Palestinian helots. As long as the Israelis have only the scary Hamas to contend with, they are safe: but as soon as a secular, youth-led non-violent intifada arises, the public relations consequences are going to be dire.
Israel is completely dependent on outside forces to ensure its continued survival: not just American aid and weaponry, but also a steady influx of Jews making aliya. If they lose the battle for world public opinion, that stream will turn into a trickle. And therein lies the deadly sword of Damocles hanging over the heads of the Israeli colonists: the demographic time bomb which will soon have the Arabs a majority in the Jewish state.
It isn’t the nonexistent military threat from the new Egypt the Israelis are so worried about – it’s the political example of “people power” winning out against a repressive regime armed to the teeth. If they can do it in Egypt, why not in Palestine? This is what the Israelis dread – and with good reason.
Even before the Egyptian uprising, there were indications of a secular youth-led movement in Palestine – specifically Gaza – which declared they’ve had it with both the Israelis and Hamas. Tel Aviv had better hope the Islamists crack down on those kids, because they are potentially a much more formidable adversary than the thugs who have taken over the Gaza strip.
Change is coming to the Middle East, whether the Israelis – or their American patrons – like it or not. And these changes will necessitate a change in US foreign policy, which up until now has been cravenly Israeli-centric. The US military’s chief of staff, Admiral Mullen, is over in Israel right now, reassuring Netanyahu and his ultra-rightist government that we’ll continue to ensure their “security” – but the status quo is unsustainable. Egypt will no longer be used as a base for US military operations in the region, at least insofar as they involve making threats to Iran. As WikiLeaks revealed, Mubarak was one of the loudest advocates of a US (or Israeli) strike on Tehran: with the despot deposed, that kind of political support for military action will no longer be forthcoming. This is a major blow to the War Party in the United States, and this alone justifies opponents of US intervention cheering the Egyptian revolution no matter what kind of government comes to power.
Some conservative anti-interventionists warn against “cheerleading” a foreign revolution, mindful of the tricks history plays on us: there’s no telling but that a new tyranny might succeed the old. I don’t buy it: the Egyptian people, who have spent the last 60 or so years putting up with one tyrant after another, are not about to give up their dearly-bought liberty and install an “Islamic” version of the old order.
The Arab peoples are waking up, and there is no putting them back to sleep: it took a mere 18 days to bring down a tyrant supported by both Israel and the US, and that revolution is spreading even as I write: to Algeria, Morocco, Yemen, and beyond. Following the example of Kuwait, the Emir of Bahrain has just granted his subjects a hefty multi-thousand-dollar “gift,” hoping to bribe them into passivity – but the opposition is going ahead with protests.
In the run up to the Iraq war, when the neocons were making the case for the invasion, they told us we needed to drain the Arab “swamp” before we could eliminate the threat of Islamist extremism: we couldn’t just stand by and let radicalism germinate, we had to take action to root it out by eliminating the very social and political conditions under which Arab civilization had been stunted and pathologized. Now, however, history has taken an unforeseen turn: the Arabs are draining that swamp all by themselves, first off by taking out the biggest frog in that stagnant pond – Mubarak. Islamist extremism flourished in Egypt, in spite of the repressive apparatus of the Mubarak regime, precisely because of the regime itself, which allowed no outlet for the natural impulse of a people to rule themselves.
Bush’s “global democratic revolution” is indeed taking place, but without the US military which the former president and his neocon speechwriters imagined would be the instrument of change. The Glenn Becks and Mike Huckabees, who fulsomely supported the Iraq war, and who are now inveighing on Fox News against the coming of an “Islamic Caliphate,” are blind to what has actually happened on the ground in the Middle East. While the Bush Doctrine ushered in an Islamist state in Iraq, where the oh-so-dreaded Sharia law is being encoded and enforced with a vengeance, the populist-nationalist uprisings in Egypt and throughout the region show every sign of ushering in a real sea-change in Arab consciousness, in which democracy and secularism triumph.
The Israeli government, and its American lobby, would do well to pipe down about the alleged “dangers” posed by the Egyptians’ fight for freedom, lest they reveal more about themselves – and Israel – than they would care to admit. For Huckabee and his supporters, it’s always about Israel – even when it isn’t. If the Huckster is perfectly comfortable criticizing the conduct of the American government from foreign soil, then perhaps his supporters and well-wishers, who pride themselves on their “patriotism” and break into chants of “USA! USA!” at the drop of a hat, will start to wonder what country he’s running for office in.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- BS in Baghdad – May 24th, 2012
- Interventionism and the Elites – May 22nd, 2012
- Obama or Anarchy? – May 20th, 2012
- What Does Ron Paul Want? – May 17th, 2012
- Hillary’s Terrorists – May 15th, 2012





A grateful reader
February 13th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Justin refers to the participants in the 1979 Iranian Revolution as "radicals." But how exactly were they radical? If they resorted to violence to achieve their ends (violence against a quisling dictator and his imperial backer), such a tactic places them well within the mainstream, as political violence is practiced regularly by the United States and its friends, such as Israel.
If they were radical for taking action to overthrow of an oppressive foreign regime, that is the normal reaction of most peoples, including the founders of our nation, to excessive foreign meddling. It is time for Justin to stop marginalizing legitimate popular liberation movements just because they articulated through the language of Islam.
As an aside, I think Justin is onto something when he talks about Israel's real fear being that Gentiles in the Holy Land should begin a nonviolent struggle for equality. I've long believed that heading off such a movement was the primary motivation of the various separation walls and barriers that have gone up at U.S. taxpayer expense over the past 10 years–the purpose of them being to prevent large numbers of people from congregating and marching in protest in Israeli cities.
sleepy
February 13th, 2011 at 10:36 pm
"No, what they are really worried about is the prospect of the Palestinians, and their own downtrodden Arab population, taking up the non-violent insurrectionist tactics of the Egyptian pro-democracy movement and shaking the very foundations of the Israeli state."
Actually, the Palestinians have been protesting peacefully against the occupation for years now. The difference with Egypt is that the IDF has been far, far more brutal in its response to demonstrations than the Egyptian authorities were over the past few days. Peaceful demonstrators in Israel are routinely murdered and vast numbers imprisoned.
And of course, it goes without saying that the PA does the same thing anytime popular Palestinian sentiment strays too far from the Israeli-PA program.
Another factor is Al Jazeera. Any chance that Al Jazeera would do live broadcasts from the weekly demonstrations at Bilin in the West Bank?
Any chance that Israel would allow it? Ha!
MoT
February 13th, 2011 at 10:37 pm
Was the Hukster making these comments while on Kibbutz? He's the archetypal "finger in the air" opportunist.
Tweets that mention It’s Always About Israel by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com -- Topsy.com
February 13th, 2011 at 10:49 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Antiwar.com, Monngo Monggo. Monngo Monggo said: It’s Always About Israel: While most of the rest of the world, minus Glenn Beck, was celebrating the overthrow o… http://bit.ly/ebMYRw [...]
Justin Raimondo
February 13th, 2011 at 10:50 pm
The Iranian regime is "radical" because it is radically authoritarian: we're talking about a country where theft is punished by … amputation. Need I go on?
Johnny in Wi.
February 13th, 2011 at 10:52 pm
Huckabee and Hagee ere birds of a feather, They will sell out Christian principles anytime they can. They never heard of the words blessed are the peacemakers, Those who live by the sword will die by the sword, and turn the other cheek. This truely was a revolution fostered by the ideas of Christ and Ghandi. The Soviet and now the American empire may fall to peaceful protest rather than violent revolution.
sleepy
February 13th, 2011 at 10:52 pm
His main deal is that he's a Christian zionist, hoping for the endtimes when all jews are assembled in Israel, so Christ can come and either rapture those who convert or kill those who don't.
Fortunately, I live in a small Iowa town and look forward to Huckster's many campaign stops over the next 11 months.
I intend to distribute leaflets at his appearances questioning his lack of support for Palestinian Christian communities which are being ethnically/religiously cleansed by Israel from their homes. In some cases, those communities are the oldest Christian communities on earth.
Hopefully, some of his Iowa Christian supporters will take note. I doubt if the issue has ever occurred to them.
A grateful reader
February 13th, 2011 at 11:02 pm
This truly was a revolution fostered by the ideas of Christ and Ghandi.
And those of Mohammed. Give credit where credit is due.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5217/5404235670_bf…
sherban
February 14th, 2011 at 12:27 am
Whatsoever will be the government in Egypt after Mubarak ,it be lump with Erdogan government in Turkey ,governments which fall apart from "the free world" because,you know,Muslims ….blah,blah,blah.And this blah,blah,blah will be repeated by all journals,all think tanker,all John Bolts,all "philosophers" a la Henry Bernard Levy .Probably wary of the danger beleaguered state of Israel have to confront now when Turkey,Egypt get closer to Iran ,will be demanded an increase of US assistance and whole the House,whole, how it is normal to happen in a free world ,will approve.
sherban
February 14th, 2011 at 12:36 am
It is regrettable that no one of those who write about Israel don't remind the Saudi peace plan which became the Arab peace plan and got the approval of the "fanatic" government of mullah and this plane exists since 2002.Just Israel have to agree,as usual,and peace in "this complicated"region will be there.
John_Mohammad
February 14th, 2011 at 12:56 am
I would be interested to see the numbers on how many of those now one-handed thieves are repeat offenders, though. I would imagine the recidivism rate would be pretty low.
The point that is missed in such cases is that, while the punishment may be severe by American standards, it is the law of the land in Iran. The thief knew the possible- even probable- punishment for the rime and made a conscious decision to do it anyway. What do we say here? "Don't the crime if you can't do the time"? The same applies there.
james
February 14th, 2011 at 1:02 am
Come on Justin, he was referring to the revolution not the present regime. I do generally agree with the thrust of your article.
The only problem I have with your general line of thinking is your acceptance of the presense of radical islamists everywhere while failing to define the radical part of it. If you are talking about the Binladens and the violent ones, they are much more marginalised than you think in the ME. It would be prudent for any political commentator to trat them as such, a marginalised, weak, ineffective and dying bunch. You can look at them just as you look at the Amish.
George
February 14th, 2011 at 1:11 am
I HATE HUCKSTERBEE!
Bodkin
February 14th, 2011 at 1:14 am
"I would be interested to see the numbers on how many of those now one-handed thieves are repeat offenders"
And there you have it. The stone-hearted barbarian speaks: "The ends justify the means."
I suppose the thief who gets caught stealing food for his starving family can just feed them his amputated hand, right Mr. Mohammad?
Thanks for proving in one single post why Raimondo is wrong when he says it's always about Israel. The medieval mentality of the region can't be ignored.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
February 14th, 2011 at 1:18 am
And what if the thief comes to be proven innocent? He gets a brand new arm?
I don't know about American standards, after all there's still death penalty there. But by European standards, the Iranian regime, just like the Saudi regime, is a barbaric regime.
Bodkin
February 14th, 2011 at 2:13 am
Glad to see you're finally catching on, Raimondo. And I'm sure you of all people would know what that regime does to homosexuals.
pshr
February 14th, 2011 at 2:28 am
Yes, so is the american regime, for the death, destruction and tyranny they have brought to muslim lands.
The europeans (british, french…) are not so saintly either. They all collude to ensure that muslims remain subjugated, under the various tyrants they have installed. Hypocrites.
Roger Lafontaine
February 14th, 2011 at 4:36 am
In the world of American foreign policy there is 'official policy' and there is 'secret policy'. The secret policy has been to build up a 'police state umbrella' (like the Nuclear Umbrella only different) to safeguard Israel and by extension America. That is why even though we proclaim 'Freedom' from the rooftops, we send CIA agents in the basement to dismantle and disrupt any real democracy movements.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
February 14th, 2011 at 4:43 am
The American regime has brought "death, destruction and tyranny" elsewhere too. For instance Latin America. It is also true that Europeans are from innocent. Still, amputating limbs or stoning women are barbaric traditions.
doc_noss
February 14th, 2011 at 4:55 am
If the Palestinians were to rise up en masse like the Egyptian people, Israel would commit the greatest cold-blooded massacre of innocents in the history of mankind. And the US would say nothing, continue to send weapons, and veto any UN resolutions.
felipeb
February 14th, 2011 at 5:19 am
Enter text right here!Why would Hosni Mubarak call Benjamon Ben-Eliezar, a man who could not even visit Egypt three years ago because of the publication of his involvement in a war crime, the massacre of some 250 unarmed Egyptian prisoners of war? It makes no sense. Sounds like disinformation. The pedigree of this phone call does not pass AKC standards.
Also, the snowball analogy is am odd one for an Egyptian to make. One wonders how many snowmen the lad Hosni made in his village by the Nile. BenEliazar grew up in the more Northern clime of Iraq and would be familiar with winter snow and its boyhood games.
If it is true, what does it say about how one gets through to Washington? The most effective way is to recruit an Israeli to carry a message that just happens to correspond to Zionist interests which is the end all and be all of US policy. That says a lot about how America is viewed around the world. It is an accurate assessment. Uncle Sam is Israel's manservant.
jojo
February 14th, 2011 at 5:44 am
Where did you get your info from–Fox News? Using Justin's name–I'd be happy to cut your wee-Wee off :^(
Bodkin
February 14th, 2011 at 5:53 am
Another barbarian speaks, and thereby proves the case against him.
You lot aren't too bright, are you?
jojo
February 14th, 2011 at 6:02 am
Mumia Abu-Jamal — Of Savages And Thugs? See it on you tube
Johnny in Wi.
February 14th, 2011 at 6:05 am
Mohammed liked to conquer by the sword. This kind of revolution owes a lot more to Christ and Ghandi. Most changes in the Muslim world have come by the sword not by peaceful mass protest where the people march and don't use violence.
bogi666
February 14th, 2011 at 6:07 am
In the USA the PIC, prison industrial complex, engineers the prison system to ensure a high recidivism rate which they get, repeat business every businesses dream.
james
February 14th, 2011 at 6:10 am
Hey felopeb, let me put is in plain simple english for you:
-Husni is a traitor to his country
-He called a war criminal that killed some of his unarmed soldiers
-So the revolution makes a lot of sense to me,
bogi666
February 14th, 2011 at 6:11 am
The use of phosphorous weapons in Fallujah was humanitarian Pentagon style. This included women and children whom had never even stole anything.
bogi666
February 14th, 2011 at 6:14 am
The USG/MIC, Mafia Industrial Complex, would supply the Israeli's with weapons, including phosphorous bombs.
bogi666
February 14th, 2011 at 6:20 am
It includes domestic policy as well. The official policy is propaganda for PR only. It is the unofficial policies that are the reality.
Terrance&Philip
February 14th, 2011 at 7:01 am
They're also probably afraid of being exposed as the apartheid state that they've always been.
A state based on religious apartheid has no place in the western world at this point in history, and assertions to the contrary will never make it so.
Terrance&Philip
February 14th, 2011 at 7:02 am
"Huckabee and Hagee ere birds of a feather,…"
Well, Jesus did warn against fat wolves in sheep's clothing.
RJk
February 14th, 2011 at 7:42 am
Yes, the Iranian regime is a sure bunch of nutcases when it comes to prosecuting for theft. Why can't they just take 1-3 years for prosecution along with millions from taxpayers for said prosecution and another millions of taxpayer money for jail for the offenders? Bunch of barbarians.
John V. Walsh
February 14th, 2011 at 8:03 am
Great column by Justin.
One thing I would say on Iran. I have a close friend who is an American and whose elderly father fought to keep Mossadegh in power as a member of the youth movement at the time. Mossadegh rejected arming the youth to prevent the CIA coup and installation of the Shah. He left when the Shah took power.
My friend, his son, travels often to Iran and does not like the regime. BUT he points out that things are getting bette in terms of democracy and human rights all the time.
To me it seems that regimes that gain their full independence from the West, like Iran or China, can then evolve toward a society that provides for material well being AND moves graduallly toward the values of the Enlightenment.
Can a state like Egypt which remains in the hands of the West and whichis considered a "vital" asset of the Empire so evolve? It does not appear to be so. Look at India and look at — Egypt.
The Egyptians will have to take a more radical stand toward the US and Israel and severe all ties if they are to win. Among other things they will have to give up all foreign aid from the West. And we can help them by calling for termination of US foreign aid, a favorite instrument of the "humanitarian" imperialists.
John V. Walsh
RickR30
February 14th, 2011 at 8:49 am
Partly barbaric. But it works–for them. And they know why. Crime is relatively low in Muslim countries and there is no guarantee it will stay that way if they did away with their system of justice and imposed a Western "all people are good, mommy and daddy will teach them ethics/the commandment and it will all be great" view.
RickR30
February 14th, 2011 at 8:54 am
We and israel work both sides. We support the status quo and the revolutionaries to weaken both and stay in charge. Divide and conquer. Except that people are becoming more united in places and hopefully won't fall into the trap.
RickR30
February 14th, 2011 at 8:56 am
True, considering the source, one has to be weary. On the other hand it does sound plausible, after all Hosni was a puppet of israel and the US. It's not unheard of that butchers of different countries are good buddies.
Egret
February 14th, 2011 at 9:18 am
The Paris Commune made stealing punishable by death. Subsequently, the thieves, prostitutes and swindlers left the city to join the exiled elite at Versailles. Fitting, I think.
RickR30
February 14th, 2011 at 9:19 am
Is there no limit to the level of treason of the "US" political/military class? I bet Benjamin Biden and or Baruch Obama soon will have to fly over to israel to give bubu tranquilizers and sedatives and assure him that we will destroy any potential and future Egyptian government that won't terrorize its people for the sake of israel. In the processes they'll have to endure the rage of bubu and get raped and sodomized just so they know who's boss. Do we have to remind that jerk of Mullen who the hell he works for? A bigger question, who ordered that he rush to israel to baby bubu? It's one thing for professional catamites like huckabee to do what he does best- be a sockpuppet for israel. An entirely different thing is for the US government and military apparatus to rush over there. In the past those cheap bastards would have to pay their own trip over here to beg for stuff.
If nothing else these revolutions are good to give israel a taste of their own medicine for a few weeks. Now they have to live in terror not knowing what others will do. Just like the Palestinians and Lebanese who never know when the israelis are going to continue their genocidal campaign next.
smithy
February 14th, 2011 at 10:22 am
israel is not a democracy. it is , by its own declaration, a Jewish state. There is a difference.
smithy
February 14th, 2011 at 10:27 am
One of the reasons that I have stopped financial contributions to your website is because you are exerting some unreasonable censorship on these posts.
I have been trying to make a comment about the nature of the so called israeli democracy. However to make that I comment I have to use a word that you have used several times in this article. Why cannot I use that same word?
felipeb
February 14th, 2011 at 10:43 am
James, you do not know how to construct a syllogism. Your risible effort leaves my suspicions about Ben-Eleazer's veracity intact.re!
bozh
February 14th, 2011 at 10:51 am
justin:
"It’s Always About Israel"
i see it as always pro supremacism: personal, ethnic, religious-etc. 'jewish' supremacism i see as part of world supremacism.
personal supremacism– whether in saudi arabia or jordan, japan, russia, u.k., or egypt, and elsewhere strives to obtain what supremacists [fascists, if u prefer] call "end of history"; i.e., utter destruction of all vestiges of a caring-sharing society on all of the tiny planet we live on.
u.s. supremacists cannot do this alone. they need even egypt onside let alone much of afrika, asia, europe, and s.america.
there r still strong pockets of egalitarianism [communism, if u like-- perhaps which jesus had in mind?] in the balkans, russia and elsewhere.
as far as i am able to find out, chinese, venezuelans, vietnamese, bolivians, koreans [i do not split korea in two], cubans r building an egalitarian [socialist] society.
to stop all further reeducation of people from accepting supremacism as the only or best way to live on this planet and begin to love equal pay for equal needs, world supremacists r uniting like never before.
in u.s, supremacism is just about completed. army-cia-fbi-police-judiciary-teaching positions-congress ranks-echelons is filled solely by supremacists.
add to that all columnists, priests, et al and one begins to take a glimpse or enormity of our problems and dangers of extinction for at least 4 bn 'aliens'. tnx
Watson
February 14th, 2011 at 10:56 am
Why does the US and Israel always seem to use Iran as the prime bogeyman example of an Islamic state?
Why don't they use our good friend and great ally, Saudi Arabia as the example? After all, Saudi Arabia is as much if not more of an Islamic state as Iran?
MoT
February 14th, 2011 at 10:59 am
The man has no shame. I used to belong to a home schooling organization up until the day they mysteriously advocated for his presidential run. Curiously I ventured to his campaign web site and my jaw dropped! The man is a flaming statist to the core with a thin Christian veneer. Talking out of both sides of his mouth comes as second nature. With further examination I found he was such an artful liar, a-la Obama, it'd make a sane mans head spin. Trying to find that old campaign platform is like hunting for unicorns. I haven't been able to locate it. Seems, like journalists in Egypt, those facts have been "disappeared".
emsnews
February 14th, 2011 at 11:02 am
Iran is Texas???? :)
bozh
February 14th, 2011 at 11:13 am
3 comments in a row held back? or is there some plot there by the rightists on this site? tnx
RJk
February 14th, 2011 at 11:14 am
Reply to the post cowardly libertarians!!
jack
February 14th, 2011 at 11:15 am
whare ooh were did tyhe Palestinean s' sign this scrap of parchment,,sheep skin,goat,whatever,lets ask Tibet whats up with proxy thirds and then whin LOUDLY about the great central core,whatever what a joke,with no punchline i might ?,oo,probably add
Mark
February 14th, 2011 at 11:49 am
Justin writes: "…what they are really worried about is the prospect of the Palestinians, and their own downtrodden Arab population, taking up the non-violent insurrectionist tactics of the Egyptian pro-democracy movement …"
The Palestinians have in fact tried nonviolent resistance, as have many supporters on their behalf (just ask Rachel Corrie – no wait, you can't – she's dead!). Nonviolence only works if the oppressors are capable of feeling ashamed at responding to nonviolence with deadly force. The Egyptian army, which is broadly drawn from all sectors of Egyptian society, made a decision that it couldn't stomach mowing down its own people protesting peacefully in the streets. Israel has shown time and again that it will cheerfully murder in broad daylight anyone who resists, however peaceably, the authority of the Holy Nation – especially if the resisting person is of an ethnicity other than the one to which the Israeli state is fanatically devoted.
RickR30
February 14th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
How do you know it's any one word? Just wondering.
Jaime
February 14th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
Much more barbaric than amputating limbs, which I definitely do not subscribe to, is the use of atomic weapons to vaporize whole cities, women and children included.
bruce
February 14th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Important to note that Benjamin Ben-Eliezer as IDF commander of shaked recon group has been accused of war crimes in 1967 war.The execution of 300 unarmed Egyptian POW's in newly captured northern town of El Arish.Israel would follow the El Arish massacre with an attack on The American communication vessel,USS Liberty steaming 13 miles offshore.
The death toll ther 34 American seamen slaghtered and another 171 wounded.
What a patriot that Mubarak!
smithy
February 14th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
The word begins with a "J" and ends with a "ish". Justin uses it several times in his above article, when he is describing the type of state that israel is. Israel is that type of state it is not a democracy and there is a difference. Any comment that contains that word is not published.
smithy
February 14th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Sun Tsu says you have to know your adversary.
Ghandi and the doctrine of non-violence worked against the british because of the british! The british respected non-violence. It appears that the egyptians do as well.
However if your adversary does not reward non-violence and instead capitializes on non-violence then that non-violence becomes a weakness. For non-violence to work it must be rewarded!
Sun Tsu says you have to know your advesary.
Will
February 14th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
The premise is fine, but I take exception to quotes like this "because they are potentially a much more formidable adversary than the thugs who have taken over the Gaza strip." Not of special love for Hamas but for the truth. Hamas won elections and became the elected government in the Palestinian territories (WB and Gaza). Immediately after they were put under economic sanctions and a slow civil war started to brew. And then Fatah rep Dahlan tried to stage a coup to overthrow the elected government but failed. Many seem to reverse this fact as to say that Hamas to Gaza by force, but rather they defended their elected government from an coup. They were pushed out of the WB.
Peacegeek
February 14th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Thank you, Justin, for pointing out the radical Islamophobia of Mike Huckabee – a Republican presidential candidate who will predicate his campaign on hatred of all Muslims. Huckabee is not alone. Tim Pawlenty and Newt Gingrich are both already appearing on major Sunday talk shows to warn the American public about the Muslim Brotherhood and the threats of "radical Islam." This is not dog whistle politics – it is ugly, filthy anti-Semitic xenophobia. Sensing victory in 2012, the Republicans will hammer away at the issue of Israel – which is their metaphor for Islamophobia. In 1939, America was riven by America First, a pro-Nazi organization that was populated by leading Republicans who had absolutely no argument with Hitler. Sadly, history seems to be repeating itself by substituting Muslims for Jews in the tortured paranoia of the American right.
smithy
February 14th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
I will try wraping it in quotes, lets see if that work.
Israel is not a democracy it is a ‘jewish’ state and there is a difference.
[moderator's note: It's not a problem with your comment -- it's just a simple matter of the fact that Antiwar.com's moderators don't sit on the edges of their seats 24 hours a day waiting to instantly hit "approve" when a comment trips our moderation filters. Rest assured, if your comment is not racist BS, etc., it will get published WHEN I GET TO IT - TLK]
bozh
February 14th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
sun tsu appears only partially right; i.e., if that's all he had said. i say know their spies, judges, columnists, priests also. how many tanks, generals, artillery pieces, warships, allies our enemies have is very useful to know.
and if u have none of that u better get going and get it! tnx
thedissenter
February 14th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
This piece on the subject from Ha'aretz was particularly nauseating:
Israel needs to help the U.S. to stabilize the region
Neither U.S. nor Israeli intelligence predicted the recent events in Egypt. In fact, when the protests began Egypt's chief of staff was in the midst of an official visit to the Pentagon.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/isra…
smithy
February 14th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
But above all else , know your adversary!
thedissenter
February 14th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
Don't kid yourself. They don't respect ethnicity. Just give 'em a chance to finish off the Palestinians and you'll see 'em turn on their own. They're only using the settlers and the other jews to get what they want for now but they too will become disposable in due time.
bozh
February 14th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
avoid protests and violence; organize, vote is the only possible solution. employ violence against greatest insanely-sane people like obama, bush, clinton, mubarak, netanyahu, only if u have the same or greater means for exercising violence as the greatest criminals we r now facing.
if anyone thinks that the supremacists wld ever change their hearts-minds just because we lament, urge, plead, etc., one is wasting time or even secretly working for no change.
and there r hordes of such people on almost all sites i know of! tnx
Generalissimo X
February 14th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
the only parallels between iran '79 and egypt '11 is that the population of both coutries rose up to oust a murderous brutal oppressive dicatator who was supported (i.e. puppet of) by the usa and israel. the reason theocracy and muslim fundamentalism gained traction in iran was in direct response (blowback if you will) to the failure of secular gov't with total corruption and subserviance to the west and its zionist proxies. the shah was a corrupt murdering pig and deserved far worse than the fate he received…further if we hadn't murdered mossadegh in the 50's we'd probably have a stable entity and possible ally in the reigion. but no, we're content to pump 3 billion a year into the israel apartheid state and then sit back in a reactive posture wondering why the entire rest of the middle east hates us. takes a real foreign policy expert to figure that out. and if it all g oes to shit for america, well that's our comeuppance at this point. ditto israel..60 years of acting like aggressive war mongering assholes and now their "bitch" mubarek is running for the hills. good luck surviving another 60 years..3 million against 500 million….you reap what you sow babies.
MvGuy
February 14th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Maybe the "midieval mentality" of the region can't be ignored… but their strict punishments should NOT be used as a way to demonize or disenfranchise them…. America has the death penalty and in California a citizen can get life imprisonment for pocketing a ham sandwich… Those "Arab peoples waking up" will not want all their resources squandered on killing and maiming……Not by the military……and not by the sharia court. There is no putting them back to sleep.. Better to organize society in a manner which feeds the families who find themselves without food or money….than to cut the hand that took to save his family from starvation… The Muslims are no more bloodthirsty than other religions…. and don't forget that it was the Christians Bush and Chaney that attacked Iraq and killed a million children, women and men…based on lies and forgeries….. Is that medieval or just bloodthirsty….. It is what they DO, not what they say …………That we need to consider
Advocate4LIberty
February 14th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
One of yours is published right here. I've had many published with the word "Jewish". Something doesn't compute here, Smithy.
RickR30
February 14th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
True. Everyone likes to present Islam as barbaric, fanatic, extremist, etc. What about governments that claim to adhere to Christianity, judaism, secularism, even atheism? Have those been kinder to opponents or the weak?
james
February 14th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
No Felipeb, I cannot construct a syllogism, But I smell bullshit from a mile away.
I will however give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe it went way over your head. Let me say it differently:
Hosni is a traitor to his country, so why doesn't it make sense to you that he talked to a war criminal?
james
February 14th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
Your words are an echo of my thoughts John. My only comment is that in this day and age it is difficult to break away completely from the west in general. What they can do is draw a line in the sand regarding their independence and the level of influence acceptable from the west generally.
Watson
February 14th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Today's news made a very interesting point in support of both MvGuy and RickR30. Muslim Iraq has decided to cancel its order for $900 millon worth of F-16 fighter jets and instead spend the money for food and services that poor Iraqis desperately need.
Would the mostly-Christian US govt do the same; stop buying billions of dollars of military weaponry and instead use the money to help desperate Americans? If the government is going to extort tax money from us, I would certainly prefer they used it to feed and provide what services they can to our poor rather than to our bloated defense contractors.
andy
February 14th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
In a sense your right Justin. But what Iranians in Iran do is not for us to decide.
keith
February 14th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
I think that when something atrocious happens somewhere else in the world, the US has no moral authority to say anything. They need to be quiet or risk dying of hypocrisy. Don't say Iran oppresses women when you have women sweat for money in the US when they should be at home raising kids and supporting the household. Don't say Saudi Arabia oppresses women when we degrade women in pornos. We treat women pretty bad over here in America. Womens lib was a fraud. Women should be domestic workers. I hate to see women in the workplace. They have no place there.
smithy
February 14th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
Its very simple. Just type the word and see what happens.
I think we have come full circle from the 1930's. We are 180 degree away from that time. Now we cannot even say the word without it having to pass through some sort of filters! This is not right.
bozh
February 14th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
amirs, kings, princes, princesses, sultans, imams, mullahs steal legally— poor people steal illegally. of course, stealing legally is ok by islam and also by far more profitable.
so do rich people everywhere; for one cannot get richer than another– except by stealing. tnx
MvGuy
February 14th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Thank you for your positive input Watson…. I really don't post to be deemed right, only to draw attention to the scams and propaganda used to manipulate our government to squander our precious resources on killing and displacement of our victims….. to attempt for us to be better citizens
MvGuy
February 14th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
GOOD POST bozh……….. You tellit like it is……97.2 % of the time Go bozh…. You R d'man…!!!!
emsnews
February 14th, 2011 at 7:28 pm
The same sort of stability the Iron Curtain gave Europe, I bet.
Sam
February 14th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
America behaves as Israel's colony.How is it possible? The lobby's stranglehold must be broken. Ron, Rand Paul, others conservatives and the real progressives could help in that matter. The war party must be stopped. World war III would be a catastrophe for everybody on earth.
abiman
February 14th, 2011 at 7:51 pm
In Israel one does have to be a victim of theft to get arms and legs amputated ( blown off) if not getting organs removed as well sometimes from the morgue. That is the difference between Iran and Israel. There are old and new victims in Israel. More is made evreyday.
abiman
February 14th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
I agree with you. I hope though sometimes the robber barons of banking ,not his drivers or cook, gets this kind of treatmnet from the judges. Iran is corrupt just like US and hides behind religion just like US does behind ideas of justice and democracy.
abiman
February 14th, 2011 at 8:00 pm
Amputation is barbaric and would disappear in Egypt or Yemen or Tunisia if democracy ( even Islamic one ) take root
Jaime
February 14th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
Yours is much worse for while this lot may sometimes go over the edge in the way they express themselves, your lot does carry its crimes with gusto.
Nigel
February 14th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
"The medieval mentality of the region can't be ignored. "
Except Israel of course….. ….. Right
Bodkin
February 15th, 2011 at 2:16 am
What nonsense! Your accusation is baseless. You have things precisely backwards, like so many of your cohorts here.
Jihadists are triumphalists. They GLORY in subjugating others. They spread their barbarism by the sword and it now stretches over several continents. Israel's enemies launched every war proudly declaring that it would be a "glorious war of annihilation".
"Sometimes go over the edge"?? Atrocities are committed in the name of Islam EVERY SINGLE DAY!!
Israelis don't rejoice when innocent Arabs get killed. But when Arab terrorists murder pregnant women, or blow up a restaurant or a bus, or shoot a baby in the head, or when planes fly into American skyscrapers, the jihadists are dancing in the street, passing out candy. This gang LITERALLY celebrates "its crimes with gusto".
emsnews
February 15th, 2011 at 6:49 am
I often talk about that on my own blog. The one state on earth where women have the fewest legal civil rights is Saudi Arabia. They are ten times freer in Iran and I know that many want more freedoms there thus the demonstrations, etc.
emsnews
February 15th, 2011 at 6:52 am
And we can thank Ron Paul for demanding this be investigated. AIPAC won't let Congress and owners of our media won't let reporters talk about or do anything about this crime.
emsnews
February 15th, 2011 at 6:54 am
Wrong on all counts. The America First people gleefully jumped onto the Imperial War machine and happily keep it going. Outside of a few libertarians, most right wing Republicans are 100% pro-military spending and killing people all over the planet. They revel in it.
thedissenter
February 15th, 2011 at 7:18 am
The extreme opposite of that would be the US where sex offenders are given jobs as TSA "Agents" groping people at airports.
thedissenter
February 15th, 2011 at 7:25 am
The article was about anything but stability. It's worth the read as it shows who they are in their true light. They didn't hold anything back on this one.
Advocate4LIberty
February 15th, 2011 at 7:52 am
Look up at the comment THAT YOU REPLIED TO. See Jewish. Look at this comment. See Jewish.
You're making no sense. Is that your intention?
mark
February 15th, 2011 at 10:14 am
Yep, that's a big part of the problem, no doubt. Israeli's vicious treatment of peaceful demonstrators has no effect on American public opinion, since the American public never hears of it, thanks to our Zionist-muzzled "news" media. Thus, supposedly liberal American journalists can lament, without fear of being laughed at, that the Palestinians seem to have no comprehension of peaceful resistance, and might be able to liberate themselves if only could produce a "Palestinian Gandhi," who could appeal to the high moral standards of the Israelis.
MoT
February 15th, 2011 at 11:05 am
No. But there is an Iraan, Texas. LOL.
MoT
February 15th, 2011 at 11:11 am
I was under the impression that the America First movement advocated non-interventionism, regardless of what other people in other lands did to each other. That we mind our own damn business for once. Guess I need to read up again just to refresh my memory.
MoT
February 15th, 2011 at 11:14 am
People like Beck always love to parrot about Sharia law but for decades were silent when people were being killed or tortured by their "friends". It's a very selective indignation.
Peacegeek
February 15th, 2011 at 11:28 am
Here is an excerpt from The Nazi Hydra in America by Yeadon and Hawkins:
"The America First Committee was not founded to help the Nazis, but under Gen. Wood's direction, the group soon let pro-Nazis join, including Dudley Silver Shirts and Klan members . . . Even Laura Engalls, the Nazi agent, was a member. Ralph Townsend, who held a leadership role in San Francisco, also was a paid agent of the Japanese government. . . . The America First Committee was successful in bringing many of the pro-fascist groups under one umbrella."
America First was very popular with mainstream Republicans like the Dulleses, the Bushes and their boy, Thomas Dewey. It is little wonder that Prescott Bush, father of George, Sr. and grandfather of George W. Bush, was deeply involved in financing the rearmament of Nazi Germany via his banking connections. Hitler and Goebbels praised the America First Committee.
MoT
February 15th, 2011 at 11:43 am
Very interesting. It would appear the movement was co-opted, much like the current Tea Party, by entrenched interests. So what you had was a hijacked organization were National Socialists/Fascists in struggle against National Socialists/Fascists/Communists ensconced in the FDR administration. Much like trying to cast out Beelzebub in the name of Beelzebub. All for show.
Bodkin
February 16th, 2011 at 3:42 am
"Selective indignation"
That should be the motto of all the Israel-bashers who flock to this site.
MoT
February 19th, 2011 at 12:16 am
The same could be said for Israel-firsters who defend that nation even when it kills innocents on my stolen money.
jack
February 19th, 2011 at 1:53 am
or slavery aka community service,till of course the loaf of bread is forgiven,in open court,where even the baliff can judge by the demeanor of said 1 bread,across the globe via top secret gags and gossipy inuendo to all concerned a reguler wiki spectacular,really though isn't community service"OO" kinda like indentured servatude,not guilty yer "?hhonouree" court jester,till forgiven,and not by third person proxy represenative corepriete carrerrist in league with foreign adventures of the capitalist commercial exspedition aka "energy "security"or either,never mind,sorry,not guilty about 20 or 30 times a day,ha,all my friends deserve thair levies and fines,penalties and damages inhereint in the pain and punishment "JUSTICE" system,ka-ching its a privlidge not a right ,gifts to the worlds largest protection and appreceation society,overblown and half baked at the same time, thank alcohal,freedom to lite firewerks and the foodbank for that one,such are the damages of living in the US of A the El Supremo of military industrial sykeatric complex super global police state syndrome,a country without a real name;oo;` yet,,,uh ps try not to give the interior security forces to much graft,it just encourages them/they
Mitch
February 20th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
How about wiping out thousands of mens and boys in concentration camps ?
I am impressed with your selective indignation.