Libertarians Against the Regime
Screw you, Mark Ames! (Oh, and happy Thanksgiving!)
We should all give thanks, this Thanksgiving holiday, for the fact that we are not – yet – living under a dictatorship. Although if you’re going through an airport on your way to celebrate the season, you are indeed living in a dictatorship, subject to search and the seizure of your personal effects, as well as being "porno-scanned" and felt up by some TSA Epsilon-Minus Semi-Moron.
No, we aren’t yet living under a dictatorship, but I can’t say I’m all that optimistic that we won’t be come next Thanksgiving. The odds of another terrorist attack are quite good, and our ineffective means of preventing it are just a way of reassuring the public that all is "normal." But we are so far from normalcy, these days, that I despair of our ever returning to that lost world of innocence into which I was born. The America of my youth is gone forever, together with youth itself, and while this latter cannot be prevented, the loss of the former is a reversible tragedy – although it seems much less reversible than ever, sad to say.
That golden age – we didn’t know it was golden at the time, of course – was an America in which the idea of being searched before getting on a plane was incomprehensible, impossible, the product of someone’s dystopian imagination: today it is a reality. It was an America in which the idea that the government could read our communications, spy on our lawful activities, and declare anyone – even an American citizen – an "enemy combatant," and hold them indefinitely or even kill them, was utterly inconceivable, a paranoid’s fever dream: today it is all too real.
And even though I grew up in the cold war era, when we went through air raid "duck-and-cover" drills at school, the possibility that we might someday be engaged in a perpetual war against a shadowy "enemy" living in a dank cave somewhere, was the stuff of some implausible fiction.
Speaking of implausible fiction, The Nation recently ran a piece by Mark "I spit on libertarians" Ames and Yasha Levine, which determined that the anti-TSA movement — that seems to have sprung up like a last gasp of life from the old America – is really a front for the Koch brothers, two formerly libertarian billionaires who have become the deus ex machina of clueless "progressive" commentators who cannot otherwise explain the explosion of anti-government anti-authoritarian populism currently upending politics. Glenn Greenwald seems to have taken care of the Ames-Levine fantasists, putting them in their proper place as apologists for the Obama regime and all its works, but one more thing needs to be said:
If Ames and Levine are going to become the "go to" team for the dirt on libertarians, such as it is, they ought to learn their subject. Because the very idea of Charles and David Koch leading a national resistance movement involving civil disobedience on a massive scale is laughable: to anyone who knows them, or knows of them in more than a glancing way, this can only provoke gales of unrestrained laughter. It is sheer laziness to believe this. Indeed, if only the Brothers Koch, and the plethora of organizations their money has funded, were that radical! Unfortunately, they are not: a stodgy, boring conservatism marks both their methods and their politics, and always has.
Ames and Levine need to do some real research. It was the anti-Koch wing of the libertarian movement, centered around LewRockwell.com, that first gave John Tyner’s act of defiance the publicity and velocity that made it go viral. And if LRC is a front for the Koch brothers, then we have truly entered Bizarro World. In that case, so
too is Antiwar.com a Koch front – and so why have we been doing this fundraising campaign for the past two weeks, begging our readers to save us from oblivion?
Gee, it seems like that check from the Kochs got lost in the mail! Charles, could you please look into that? Thanks.
Speaking of our fundraising campaign – it’s not over until it’s over! That’s right, we still need $20,000 to make our $100,000 goal.
This has been the roughest fundraiser we’ve ever faced, and that it isn’t yet over fills me with despair – especially when I read articles, like the Ames-Levine piece, claiming that we libertarians are just the pawns of a couple of billionaires in Kansas, who own us and half the country. Well, nobody owns us, and we don’t get money from big donors – at least on the scale of the Kochs – and so we are reduced to begging. Yes, begging – it’s undignified, it’s repetitive, and it’s absolutely necessary to our survival, and, indeed, to the survival of a viable antiwar movement.
Because we are the only people challenging the tired red-blue, left-right politics of the past in an effort to build a genuine, united, and massive movement against the Empire. The Nation may have a vested interest in maintaining the left-right divide, which goes far to explain why they published their apologia for the Warfare State and defended the Bush-founded TSA against us "subversive" libertarians: now, at least, we know where they stand. With the status quo, with the State, with the Obama-led "war on terrorism" that represents a direct threat to all we cherish about America. This is just more confirmation of my many recent jeremiads against the collaboration of the "official" Left with the War Party.
Now that President Obama has taken the reins of power, this phony "Left" has taken up the cudgels on his behalf, reflexively defending every action by an administration just as devoted to the concept of perpetual war as its predecessor. The dissolution of the "left"-led antiwar movement is the fastest, most ignominious retreat since the Communist-led peace movement of the 1930s turned pro-war on the eve of Hitler’s invasion of the Soviet Union.
The Ames-Levine "article" – really just a hash of half-baked assertions and warmed over atmospherics – underscores the enormous betrayal of the pro-Obama fake-"left." Defend civil liberties? Forget it, if it means criticizing the Messiah! March against war? No way, not if it’s Obama’s war! Protest crony-capitalism and corporate welfare? Not if it means coming out against Obama-care — a "healthcare" program that guarantees profits for the big corporations by forcing everyone to "buy" insurance.
You must buy health insurance! You must allow yourself to be felt up by some government goon! You must allow yourself to be irradiated whenever you go to the airport! You must obey! That’s the America we live in today, the America the Ames-Levine tag team are defending, albeit not very well. And if you don’t obey, and learn to love it, then you just one of those subversive libertarians, who, as Senor Ames wrote elsewhere, deserve to be spat on: "Anytime anyone says anything libertarian," wrote Ames on his web site, "spit on them. Libertarians are by definition enemies of the state: they are against promoting American citizens’ general welfare and against policies that create a perfect union. Like Communists before them, they are actively subverting the Constitution and the American Dream."
To which one can only reply: yes, we are enemies of the State, not only this State but all States. Why, I even wrote an entire book entitled "An Enemy of the State," an admiring biography of the great libertarian philosopherMurray Rothbard, who surely must be smiling down on me at this moment. As he taught, States are mass-murdering machines without souls, without conscience, without any means or motive to interpret the "general welfare" as anything other than the welfare of those who wield power backed up by force. And as for that "perfect union" you long for, Ames, I would suggest you try to achieve it on a one to one basis, with the partner of your choice, and not with the body politic at large. Because I, for one, don’t want any "union," perfect or imperfect, with the sorry likes of you.
The old Republic of my youth is gone, wilted on the vine: in its place stands the Regime, a word Chris Matthews thinks, when used to describe the Obama administration, borders on sedition. He and Mark Ames and Yasha Levine and the editors of The Nation – good "progressives" all, no doubt – have a new and dangerous concept of treason, one that has targeted libertarians as the Enemy Within in a new version of the cold war hysteria that once targeted alleged communists and anarchists an alleged “progressive” — or, indeed, anyone — as the worms in the American apple. And that, my dear readers, is the highest compliment an alleged “progressive” — or, indeed, anyone — has ever paid our movement, one I hope we come to fully deserve.
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
Okay, I’ve vented my Thanksgiving spleen, and now on to the business at hand: yes, you read me right, above – we still haven’t made our fundraising goal of $100,000. And if we don’t make it, I promise you you’ll know about it rather immediately: you’ll notice the cutbacks in our coverage, including right here in this space, right from the get-go.
So please – help put us over the top. No, we aren’t funded by billionaires, or even millionaires, unlike Ames and his crew over at The Nation. Somehow, both George Soros and the Koch brothers seem to have left us off their Christmas list, and they will be no presents from them under the tree. That’s because the average donation to Antiwar.com is around fifty bucks: we depend on lots of little presents from our engaged and committed albeit generally poor-to-middle-class readers, rather than great big gift-wrapped bundles of cash from bored billionaires.
Make sure you ring in the New Year with a reliable source of news and commentary from an unapologetically anti-authoritarian voice for peace and liberty: give to Antiwar.com today!
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Up Against the FBI – May 23rd, 2013
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013





JLS
November 25th, 2010 at 11:00 pm
Wow…Thank you Justin!
Bob
November 25th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Mark Ames is a troll. Many of the things he writes are sarcastic. His contempt for Libertarians arises from his reasonable conclusion that you are all mentally defective.
Bob
November 25th, 2010 at 11:15 pm
It would be nice if you all could all just get along and, y'know, report on the wars. It is the only truly important thing you can accomplish with your platforms. The rest of the games you play will matter to no one when you perish.
Stephen E.
November 25th, 2010 at 11:24 pm
"Indeed, if only the Brothers Koch, and the plethora of organizations their money has funded, were that radical! Unfortunately, they are not: a stodgy, boring conservatism marks their both their methods and their politics, and always has."
Just a quibble–I would object to having them called conservatives at all since they are conservative only in the sense of maintaining the status quo solely for their benefit at the expense of the nation. But if they are to be labeled conservative, it should be made plain that the Koch bros. are statist/imperialist conservatives as opposed to actual conservatives who are paladins of the republic.
Matthew Stephen Rogers
November 25th, 2010 at 11:26 pm
Guess what "Bob," I am an left Green direct action anti authoritarian, and have many problems with Libertarians naive faith in the "free market," but if Libertarians are going to be the ones organizing the boycots and speaking out against up ratcheting police state like 4th amendment and basic human dignity violating TSA scans and groping, then I will fight beside them shoulder to resist tyranny.
In short fuck any apologetics for police state by either neo-cons or Obamabots, and fuck you too Bob.
Fucking tool!
jack
November 26th, 2010 at 12:30 am
maybe the nation/state is having a fit or momentary lapse of reason,itself a state of being not well,oh well much ado about Miss VanDerHouval,?,thare web scene isn't really werking so well anyway,(its totally retarted) never mind,amazing,watching this slow motion hi-jacking of what progressives (holding steady at 44.4%red line max) and the libertarian branch of the patriotic "fringe" or the red coat wing of the junior scouts of acme post industrial america,huh,whats wrong with this arraingment,what happened to the capitalist duplicity again,i'm confussed,maybe they/them put thare blue coats back on,oh yeah don't forget the independents they oughta be coming along anytime now,if all these partisian hacks allow or just plain ole forget what the h_ll thare talking or movementing about in the first democratically grounded place,fringe hijacking,revote,none of the above,no confideince,write in,oo,I'D like to re-nomanate Ralph Nader outta the fringe and back to the mainstream hall of fame,thank you,i guess we'll all get the beaurocracy we really truly deserve,klepto,pluto,dystopian whatever, they oughta be coming along anytime now,the whole posse of em
thelion
November 26th, 2010 at 12:35 am
Just remember all you Republicans, Libertarians, and Teapartiers it was you who allowed the Neocon Bush Administration because it sure as hell wasnt a Republican one to set the ball rolling in all of those many abuses that have led to the constitution being shredded. Just think if you had have reigned Bush but more so Cheney in, you wouldnt be in the mess you are today.
Financially as well as having your rights eroded to those where it is starting to look as if Cuba is looking to be a good place to live!
Johnny in Wi.
November 26th, 2010 at 1:28 am
The outrage against the scanners has come mostly from the right. Thats because there seems to be more emphasis lately about how our Constitution has been shredded by both parties. The right is finally shedding the Bush Cheney mindset. Janet Napolitano should be impeached and removed for her outrages against the 4th Amendment. Of course Obama has the final authority but it is always easier to atack a lackey than the boss.
bogi666
November 26th, 2010 at 2:37 am
Glenn Greenwald has criticized the Nation lately.I still can't understand how ObomberBush qualifies as a progressive, liberal, or democrat. I'm still a Libertarian Socialist and if anyone has the notion to tell me how to be a libertarian I suggest they take out the "mote in their own eye".
Montaigne
November 26th, 2010 at 4:23 am
To see the state as some holy entity is at best impractical. You dare not change, control, demand the entity itself. It is based on vague historical understandings, but it is a grave error, that humans inside it, should then transform themselves into blind mysticists. Controlling the wjhole world, and indeed the universe too, for all future is NOT a great vision, bu a great and meaningless insanity. Because the little mores and understandings of justice hidden in language and understandings of justice are from concrete human livings in specific circumstances. Starting from the state as a not-to-be-questioned-given REVERSES that order, and as we all can see: destroys the input from living beings. Only spin of authorised masters are then to become binding. Not private convictions.
GradyWilson
November 26th, 2010 at 4:55 am
If libertarians are such "enemies of the state" then why don't anti-war.com offices get raided by the FBI like leftist anti-war groups? And why were anti-state leftists like Howard Zinn followed by the state but not Rothbard (who broke bread with imperialists like Buckley)? I don't think the state views libertarians as the enemies which they pretend to be.
And why do libertarians like Raimondo condone state power like the McCarthy witch hunts? And why of course was Raimondo on a talking tour which pimped the Tea Party (Republican Party) during the campaign season?
There is indeed a phony anti-war left within the Dems just as there is a phony anti-war right within the TeaParty/GOP/Libertarians but you can't (honestly) pretend that anti-war.com is the only sincere anti-war voice out there and you definitely cannot pretend that you Justin are attempting to unite the left and right while attacking the left constantly – maybe its you (pot) who, like the Nation (kettle), has a vested interests in maintaining the left right divide while arrogantly claiming otherwise?
Johnny in Wi.
November 26th, 2010 at 5:43 am
Grady: I am glad you have finally joined Justin in his call for left right unity on this issue. However: Justin has pointed out that the far left won't allow any deviation at antiwar erallies. It only wants it's usual suspects. The left and right worked together in the prewar WW2 antiwar movement. That is eveyone form Normon Thomas to Gerald Ford. The sane left and the sane right of libertarians and paleo conservatives need to work together to end these wars. Sadly I don't know of many sane leftists. Could you name me some?
camus10
November 26th, 2010 at 5:46 am
libertarians can establish progressive credentials by making clear their position on ecologic restraints on open market capitalism and who leads research and development and basic social safety net
I like reading Justin Raimondo and nearly all other key editors on antiwar. I remain perplexed why the silence on some key issues. Obama must be asked to resign if the Dims have any chance again. So antiwar can certainly count on my loose change
theothercanada
November 26th, 2010 at 7:06 am
Nation is Pravda for one of the duopoly factions of the Ruling Party and is as credible as NYT or FOX which represents the "alternative".
SINOA
November 26th, 2010 at 7:47 am
Katrina vanden Heuval is killing The Nation.
It is little more than a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party, with only a few exceptions like Alexander Cockburn.
I can only hope that the few writers left can stage some sort of rebellion and take it back. In that case they could well be part of a Left/Right alliance against war and Empire and to maintain our liberties.
SINAO
Wolfgang9
November 26th, 2010 at 8:13 am
So, just tell me, how was he able to do that, this Yasha Levine fleeing the the Soviet Union to America?? Did he he go to prison for that? In almost all Communist countries Jews where just permitted to leave for the West, especially Israel. They didn't have to go through prison like others, like me and most of my friends!__I always have to throw up when they are claiming to have been anti communists, when in reality nobody had a better life in those Eastern Block countries than Jews. And just look at that picture of Lenin's first Central Comite of the communist party, almost all were Jews. I know from East Germany, many of the Jews could travel freely to the West and return when other citizens risked their lives to leave the dictatorships.____My suspicion is that this Yasha Levine probably got permission to emigrate to Israel and instead went to the US, with no problems at all. Me and many others had to go through prison to leave.____Wolfgang
Wolfgang9
November 26th, 2010 at 8:16 am
Yes, and I guess, after Gulag he just went through Auschwitz too,
W
Mhstahl
November 26th, 2010 at 8:19 am
You might want to look back a few years on this site and others. Just a thought.
GradyWilson
November 26th, 2010 at 9:28 am
"…. I don't know of many sane leftists. Could you name me some? …" – J in Wi
That's because you prefer wallowing in your ignorant bliss. Do you even read the links provided on this site of which many are very sane anti-war leftists; Robert Parry, Chris Hedges, Tom Englehart, Chris Hayes, Robert Sheer, John Nichols, Kevin Zeese, Juan Cole, etc, – even Gore Vidal, Noam Chomsky, and the late Howard Zinn?
Luther Blissette
November 26th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Watching Antiwar & Exiled fight is like watching your parents fight…
Ames an Obama shill? Christ! Next you'll be telling me that 'War Nerd' is a aging English prof.
Ames has done enough good reporting (and enough Antiwar.com radio interviews) that he gets a chance to redeem himself in my mind. Ames is wrong and if he is truly an Obama shill than *&^* him – but I still see him more as leftist jerky than Obama evil. I might be wrong.
Growing up amongst pro-war 'South Park Libertarians' it easy to see the Lib. goal of 'no state' as a dangerously Utopian corporate wet-dream. It took sites like Antiwar one to show me a principled, moral libertarian philosophy – that I now deeply respect.
Mom! Dad! Don't Fight!
bozh
November 26th, 2010 at 11:17 am
"No, we aren’t yet living under a dictatorship, but I can’t say I’m all that optimistic that we won’t be come next Thanksgiving".
tell it to homeless, soldiers, 'aliens', black slaves, servant class, indigenes, et al and see what they'd say.
soldiers wld not say anything because they know or shld know by now that they are just meat for rich people: the diktators. u say smthing and u may wind up dead or jobless!
in fact, u.s had always been governed by a diktat; aka, constitution, a set of 'laws; that only diktators know what they mean!
if one snuffs a life of a child in faraway lands; representing no danger whatever to a single american, that is a diktatorship. tnx
TrueSeeker
November 26th, 2010 at 11:28 am
This will muddy the waters a little…
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/162/3859/1243.f…
bozh
November 26th, 2010 at 11:38 am
it cld be noted that hedges, scheer, chomsky, et a appear quite supremacistic. in case of chomsky, he's selfdeclared anarchist, against ROR, and not a nonsupremacist.
it is the world-wide supremacism and about 30mn u.s supremacists– who'd never give up the greatest reality show and thrill of owning people– that is the root of all evil.
none of the columnists i came across dare say this; provided they see this enormous evil.
recall that none of them ever postulate let alone posit a single salient cause for ills that befall us, let alone a solution. tnx
bozh
November 26th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
as always before, minority of people wld continue to count c-notes while others wld count pennies. so long as we do nothing save nagging c-note counters about the fact i just posited. if one thinks mafia wld ever change its mind by just lamenting or forever describing what goes on, one wld count those pennies if any wld be left to save or spend on our already poisoned food.
study the swiss model and u'd see that it is much more timocratic and pantisocratic than any european land and of u.s not even to talk about.
hey, swiss actually -wld u believe it? i am not making this up- actually have a chance to vote against smthing.
my spell check refuses to accept the label "pantisocratic". and what that alone tells u?
can u believe audacity- oops, brazedness– of low life demanding and getting an opportunity to reject some laws? god bless all children and devil bless supremacists and all priests.
also spricht bozhidarevski, but not kant, ghandi, MLK, dostoyevski, hobbes, keynes, chomsky, natanyahu, jesus, pope benedict, thoreau, churchill, jefferson, decartes, dante, linclon danke
Johnny in Wi.
November 26th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
I actually agree with some of those named Grady. I just could not think of any at the time. See isn't that nice of me reaching out to you in a friendly way. However I don't think most of those named would work with us rightwingers. We just have a different world outlook. Everybody is perhaps too set in there ways.
anonymouse
November 26th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Sorry guys. The reason "the regime" has grown out of all proportion and goes around the world bombing and killing is MONEY. The reason it does so is CORPORATE MONEY and the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX (See "War is a Racket"). Liberals can argue against this system on moral and ethical grounds, which is admittedly a weak position in such an ignorant and amoral society. Libertarians, however, are arguing that the best way to tamp down this big money influence is to remove any and all constraints on said money and influence!
That's why "the regime" doesn't consider you guys a threat and leaves you alone while they harass, raid and occasionally murder activists in the left. The role of libertarians, in our society, is to take a certain percentage of intellectuals they might become genuine threats to the status quo and transform them into being politically inert. To the liars, thieves and killers of "the regime", "get the government out of my life!" is music to their ears, because it completely surrenders the liberal notion that government should be bound to some notion of morality in favor of the cynical view of "everything's broke and can't be fixed". Hence, you've removed yourselves from the political discussion.
Anonymouse
November 26th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
"Libertarians" don't "organize" anything other than whinefests on the internet. Look at "national opt-out day", for example. Even if you believe the rumors that the TSA shut down the machines, across the country, to prevent "opting out" and discrediting the protest, it's really hard to have faith in the organization abilities of a "movement" that announces their tactics, in advance, so that "the regime" can easily develop countermeasures.
These Libertarians are the same guys who always mocked the secrecy of leftist groups planning protests, because they are used to being the intellectual pets of "the regime", rather than its enemies. Even if times have changed and "the regime" has decided that Libertarians have "outlived their usefulness", it would be better for you to put your efforts towards leftist groups that have been working the streets for years, rather than taking the hard knocks that would be part of the libertarians "growing up" period.
"The left" might be full of egos and divided into way too many groups, but at least we aren't starting the debate with a false premise, like the Libertarians. Education is a much better tactic regarding Libertarians than cooperation.
Hacklheber
November 26th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Because liberals cannot be arsed to do THAT, now that the Peace Laureate is sitting pretty.
Right?
Anonymouse
November 26th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
Now that somebody has provided you a list of "sane leftists", how about you post the names of some sane right wingers (who aren't dead)? Bonus points if you can find some who do more for their cause of "sanity" than write blogs on the internet.
Hacklheber
November 26th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
"libertarians can establish progressive credentials"
These two positions are hardly compatible, sorry.
Anonymouse
November 26th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Report on the wars? You mean the two illegal wars started by your right-wing President? I guess we missed the part where you libertarians and your then-allies the neocons gave a crap about our opinions. In fact, I remember something along the lines of "You are either with us, or you're with the terrorists".
Anonymouse
November 26th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
"The right is finally shedding the Bush Cheney mindset"
Funny how they only seem to do that when there's a Democrat in the White House.. It's just a wild coincidence, I'm sure!
If you really want to see something funny, check out caches of this site during the Clinton Admin and the Kosovo War. You'll see some of the same principled conservatives who criticize the wars today. Now, check out a cache of the site during the Bush admin. WHERE DID THEY GO? Must be a leftist conspiracy!
james
November 26th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
I suggest that Raimondonium be the name for the next ridiculously thick compound that is discovered by material researchers.
Serious question Justin, did you even read the Ames article? It was about the co-opting of legitimate public anger for use by the Oligarchs for their own personal ends. You act like this hasn't happened recently, or maybe you feel that the Teabagger/guttersnipe movement was simply a "groundswell" of elderly racists on medicare financed scooters?
Anonymouse
November 26th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
"These two positions are hardly compatible, sorry. "
I know, it's silly. The only way corporations in America could be more "deregulated" is if they had legal ownership of the offspring of their employees. Only a few Supreme Court rulings away, I'm sure..
Fact is, they've left just enough "government" to prevent the people from bucking the system. All those nasty "entitlements" have been stripped away, leaving police and military. If the people ever sought to reclaim said "entitlements", well, you know what happens next.
If you guys are "libertarian" because you believe that a libertarian government would be so weak that it'd be susceptible to a leftist takeover, then your position is even more retarded than I'd imagined! Fact is nobody is going to take to the streets for "corporate rights", and without "the regime" to protect their property, it would be taken back by the people it was stolen from. What a gross violation of "property rights". Ayn Rand would not approve!
james
November 26th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
Holy shit, you drank the kool-aid!
Libertards will abandon you the second they get a loving pat on the head from the missing masculine figure in their life, or when their stock portfolio gets to 8% year-over-year.
Anonymouse
November 26th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Here's a response posted by Mark Ames on his site:
http://exiledonline.com/mark-ames-and-yasha-levin…
TL;DR — Greenwald jumped the gun in a blog post again. Justin ripped off Greenwald in a blog post again. For pet intellectuals like Justin and Glenn to go after someone like Ames who literally lived on the front lines of the war for liberty over tyranny is sad, and expected. Afterall, all true libertarians know that it is best to attack first when faced with superior competition in the marketplace!
Johnny in Wi.
November 26th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Pat Buchanan, Paul Craig Roberts, Justin Raimondo, John Duncan, Thomas Woods, Lew Rockwell, and all the people who write for him. That is most of his writers come from the free market libertarian mindset. The sane leftists on foreign policy are usually insane on economics and big government. Thats the problem, you just can't have wars without big, intrusive government. There are plenty of Tea Party people elected this November who can be brought along as well. We will see if the revolt in the Republican Party moves in the right direction.
Johnny in Wi.
November 26th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
I put up alist but someone removed it. So I must have offend someone here. Thats it for me for a this weekend
camus10
November 26th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
we need minimum wage, a livable wage. Only laxity of environmental law could allow mountaintop coal and deep sea oil drilling disasters. Who preserves liberty against the onsluaght of human trafficking.
The state is vital to preserve public assets. Why this compulsive absolutism, what is wrong with the diktat of the People. The foreign genocides are abuses of the People's will after mindless propaganda
Lloyd
November 26th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Ames plays the anti-semite card. The first refuge of scoundrels. Ames "lived on the front lines of the war for liberty over tyranny"? Because he ran a rag in Moscow that specialized in running ads for prostitutes? You are funny.
Mhstahl
November 26th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
Strictly speaking, "libertarian government" is an oxymoron. Corporations are government entities-as you noticed, and as such indeed do benefit from theft in some ways, and are repugnant, apparently you are a libertarian, congrats.
Ayn Rand was not, never claimed to be, and viciously denounced, "libertarians"-why so many people who describe themselves as such adore that…person has always puzzled me-masochism I suppose.
You really don't know what the hell your writing about. You should learn a little more before you spout off, you might be surprised-or continue making an ass of yourself, your choice.
Anonymouse
November 26th, 2010 at 11:07 pm
Ineffectual internet bloggers and intellectual featherweights. Furthermore, not a one of them with any presence in the media or on the street where real America could ever hear what they have to say. While I certainly see that allying with the left would benefit you guys — an intellectually bankrupt movement now being betrayed by their one-time benefactors — I fail to see how the political left could benefit from associating with such a gang of self-important patsys.
Of course, I'm not counting the Pauls or Buchanan, because you just added them to make your list not look so pathetic. Everyone left or right, knows that those 3 people are just GOP hypocrites with no substance, whatsoever.
As to your little jab at "leftism", you'll find that these wars aren't being done for the purpose of sustaining "big government", but are being done to "open markets" for the capitalist bloodsuckers that you libertards worship. Because without "big government" to protect them, the workers that big business exploit to line their bloody pockets would surely gut them like trout and take back their "self-made profits".
You can take the corruption out of government, but you cannot take the money out of capitalism. That's why you libertarians are deluded fools and why the only leftists you'll ever get to "ally" with you will be other deluded fools. Enjoy the cold knife of your friends at your back — you deserve it for throwing your lot in with Bush and the neocons.
camus10
November 26th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
unfair W9
please check Mark Ames and Y Levines explanation here
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/mark-ames/327…
Wolfgang9
November 27th, 2010 at 1:04 am
You may be right, Camus, when I read it in the morning. And maybe I owe an excuse.
But, I know more than onehundred former political prisoners in Germany, and none is Jewish. And, from the very few members of "Politbureau" (the ruling, very small group of communist party leaders) in east germany, three were Jewish: K. Hager, Axen, and Norden. None of the 120 people shot dead on the Berlin Wall was Jewish!
But on the other hand Communists also killed their own people, at least under Lenin and Stalin. And reading Solschenizym I have to agree there were also some Jewish people in the Gulag. And anybody there was one too many!
Sorry, Wolfgang
thoughtbell
November 27th, 2010 at 2:20 am
OK, it's bad that somebody's granny gets patted on the bum in the airport. It is infinitely worse that a drone blasts a couple about to be married along with half both their families. (Osama Bin Laden raged that the US treats people in other countries as if their blood were water). I'll allow that domestic affronts are components of the imperial project. But there's something unbalanced, even unjust, about really putting one's back into stoking this fire when such indignations amount to so many pinpricks when balanced against rendition, torture, secret prisons, death squads, collateral damage, invading other peoples' lands, etc.
Hacklheber
November 27th, 2010 at 6:29 am
Dude! Before you motormouth off, you should learn the basics:
1) Libertarians are not Republicans, and certainly not neocon hardcore troskyiites. As for being "allied"? [citation needed], eh?
2) The "right-wing President" is not "the libertarian president". The libertarian president would sit in a office in DC, sometimes answer the phone and sometimes sign papers related to organising festivities in the capital. Basically no-one would actually know who the guy currently occupying that minor position is. Not like the repubocrat king figure one can see now.
But hey, maybe you are just posting from your high-school PC, in which case you still gotta chance to learn better.
Hacklheber
November 27th, 2010 at 6:34 am
You really are pretty full of it.
"You can take the corruption out of government", eh? Probably under a socialist regime with well-meaning bureaucrats undersigning friendly death notes. Dream on, loser.
Hacklheber
November 27th, 2010 at 6:37 am
Nope, it's a few posts up.
I still wonder why people have to see the world in left/right as if it was in any way relevant how notables were sitting in parliament after the french revolution…
emsnews
November 27th, 2010 at 9:36 am
All over Europe, students are rising up as they have learned, the state is abandoning them. Yes, the withdrawal of socialism is what motivates people to endanger themselves, defying the powers of the State and of course, the dictates of the bankers and the very rich.
As the billions of people of the world turn their attention to fighting their own governments, the one last refuge of the cowards at the top is the WWI solution: mobilize the young so they can't riot anymore and then pay them with paper money (WWI nearly killed the gold standard in Europe) and then go merrily to war based on patriotism.
The wars we are engaged in right now are tribal/ethnic/religious warfare with nations that aren't nations or have no real military. But the dangerous confrontation between nuclear North Korea and nuclear umbrella South Korea can instantly metastasize into WWIII. This is a true flash point and one that we must fear greatly as the US is shoving a huge part of our Pacific naval fleet into China's face and a regular road to war is…to have a ship suddenly sink. Doesn't matter why or who is responsible. This is a truly dangerous hair trigger situation which could instantly drag in Russia, China, North Korea into nuclear war with the US continent as well as wiping out South Korea and Japan in less than 6 hours.
Watson
November 27th, 2010 at 11:56 am
America just did naval maneuvers with S. Korea in the Yellow Sea back in June. So here we are, barely a half a year later, doing it again. It this isn't provocation, then what is? http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/u-s-military-…
Jeremiah
November 27th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
Ooze back to your chan board, cretin.
Jeremiah
November 27th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Let's see: absurd equations of "libertarianism" (itself a rather diverse collection of ideologies) with the Ayn Rand cult and the GOP (altogether, a pitiably crude effort at deploying the association fallacy); the use of such distinctive "witticisms" as "libertard" and similar jejune invective; a curious obtuseness (feigned or otherwise) to the fact that the MIC, predatory corporations and other Big Money vampires live in SYMBIOSIS with the state (this despite your correct claim above that Big Government [though at one point you seem to contradict yourself by suggesting that a sort of corporation-friendly MINARCHY---"just enough government . . . "---is the order of the day] protects Big Money with its monopoly on force); and a seeming endorsement (no doubt unintentional) of a sort of "left-LIBERTARIANISM": i.e., the apparent belief that, freed from the state apparatus, the exploited workers will take back their labor and its fruits from their corporate (government-chartered and -protected) exploiters.
Either you haven't a clue what you're sputtering about; or you haven't a clue what you're sputtering about AND one of those "How to Troll Libertards" guides that so delight the chan set.
Jeremiah
November 27th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Oh, yeah: let us know when you get that whole "take-corruption-out-of-government" angle figured out. Deluded fools everywhere are dying—heck, *have been dying* for *centuries*—to know.
camus10
November 27th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
thanx W9, the irony that makes your post important is those who escaped the gulag are now running a new criminal enterprise in zionist pariah Israel and they remain impervious to the vast inequities in Russia
camus10
November 27th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
its the age of enhanced interrogation, enhanced body scanning and now enhanced marketing
the rapid onset of so many flashpoints maybe a clever scheme to market more weapons. Deluded leaders stimulating the global economy with weapon sales and creating dominant hierarchies before resource plunder.
the best grass roots would do well to push for insanity laws declaring many world leaders a public menace.
emsnews
November 28th, 2010 at 5:29 am
Yes, it very much is a provocation. One thing is absolutely certain: if China were to choose to sink any of our ships, they would sink ALL of our ships simultaneously. They can do this. So if one tug boat is sunk and we use this as an excuse to attack, it will be obvious who is really starting this war.
The Israelis sank the USS Liberty in an attempt to kill everyone on board and then blame the Muslims. This failed so they settled for McCain's dad covering up their crime while the US didn't merrily join in attacking Egypt. But the US ships posted outside of North Vietnam didn't even have one ship sink, just the report of a possible NV attack to give LBJ the excuse to invade and attack.
About Justin's history: it is very colored by the fact that he wasn't in any perceived danger during the 50's to imagine there was something good going on back then. I grew up inside of the CIA/secret military bases where the scientists were working day and night to produce WWIII and its many horrors. We were ALWAYS on the brink of total annihilation since 1950 when Russia exploded their first hydrogen bomb.
China became a nuclear power 12 years later. During the 1950's, one of my dad's fellow scientists was a Chinese rocket expert who was accused of being a communist by McCarthy. He wasn't (his wife babysat us kids, we knew them well) and my dad convinced the President to not put him in prison but he had to flee the US and eventually did end up working for Mao. So by 1966, China had nuclear missiles like the US and Russia and from that point onwards, we had this triangulated power base with the three big countries (you have to be huge to survive nuclear war, all other nations can be wiped out with just a few bombs landing on the major cities) and this triangle of terror held the world under some control until the Soviet Union collapsed.
Well, Russia still has nuclear missiles and now, just this last 2 years, has formed a tighter and tighter alliance with China. If the US is joining Japan and South Korea in unilaterally claiming sovereignty over various islands held by Russia and China (note the word UNILATERALLY, ie, no negotiations at all) this move was a tad too late since Russia and China now have mutual interests and between the two of them, hold over $3 trillion in US dollars they can dump on the world markets.
I really think our leaders are infused with a subconscious 'end of times' thinking and certainly the GOP right wing Christians and nuts like Palin are very infused by this thinking and alas, many of these idiots believe that if Jesus comes, we will rule the earth and be happy little piggies feasting on the planet while all other people will magically vanish in the hot dust of nuclear annihilation. Amen.
DocAmazing
November 28th, 2010 at 11:32 am
Libertarians are not Republicans–except for Bob Barr, R. Paul pere et fils, and pretty much any of them in elective office. You might also try reading the comments section over at Reason–lots of Teabagger talking points, but very little civil libertarianism.
DocAmazing
November 28th, 2010 at 11:43 am
Yeah, because Justin is regularly visited by law enforcement, shutting him down for what he's written.
Classic Libertarian: Call Amnesty International: EBay just charged me sales tax!
DocAmazing
November 28th, 2010 at 11:47 am
Funny–back in the mid-'80s, I remember a very influential book among Libertarians (bought mine from Loompanics Unlimited, in fact) was called It Usually Starts with Ayn Rand.
Down the memory hole…
By the way, corporations are not government entities; the are registered with governments, but not arms or creatures of governments. You'd think propertarians would be up on that stuff!
Max
November 29th, 2010 at 4:01 am
EMS,
Is this the rocket scientist (center) you're talking about?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Left-right_Ludw…