Obama vs. the Left
Behind the “dump Biden” movement: what does it all mean?
It’s amazing, really, how much of a pass the left is giving President Obama as he sells out every single major platform plank that got them pumped up to begin with. Aside from his sellout on the domestic policy front, which I’ll leave to others to cavil about, on the civil liberties and foreign policy front he’s certainly taken a hard right turn. The promised reversal of Bush era civil liberties violations has itself been reversed; the pledge to get out of Iraq before 2012 turned out to be a shell game, and with the Justice Department going after antiwar activists in Minneapolis, Chicago, and North Carolina – on charges of providing material aid to terrorists – the sting of the administration’s slap to its former supporters on the left must be smarting something fierce.
Yet none of this has registered anywhere but in the precincts of the far left: “progressives” and their limousine liberal buddies have pretty much remained silent, or at least not made all that much of a fuss while the President rides roughshod over the sweet promise of “change.” Indeed, the only change we’ve seen is in the public persona of the Dear Leader and his minions, who have gone overboard recently in making their rejection of the left quite explicit.
While Robert Gibbs was still White House press secretary, he made a point of denouncing the “professional left,” which supposedly won’t be satisfied until we’ve “eliminated the Pentagon.” Anybody who thinks Obama bears the slightest resemblance to Bush “ought to be drug tested,” Gibbs cranked. The real slap in the face, however, came when the administration publicly floated the idea of replacing Vice President Joe Biden with Hillary Clinton.
Biden is the one major figure in the administration with a high public profile who has consistently questioned our course in Afghanistan: he and Rahm Emanuel, that is, at least according to Bob Woodward’s Obama’s War. The Vice President, you’ll recall, came out with his own Afghan war plan: a minimalist approach that would rely almost entirely on drone attacks and guided missile strikes launched from outside the country (in tandem, of course, with the “secret” CIA-run Afghan assassination squad exposed by WikiLeaks).
Biden lost that fight, and now it looks like he’ll be losing his job, swapping the Vice Presidency for a stint as Secretary of State. Tucked away at Foggy Bottom, and left to deal with the low-visibility problem of Iraq, Biden will be cut out of the loop in the real center of power, which will be concentrated more than ever in the White House.
Hillary, who supported the Iraq war and inhabits the ideological space once inhabited by Henry “Scoop” Jackson and the long absent neoconservatives, is supposed to give the 2012 ticket much-needed heft. The idea is to ameliorate the President’s undeserved reputation as some kind of radical leftist, perhaps even one of the dreaded “Kenyan anti-colonialist” variety.
People like Arianna Huffington and Rachel Maddow, who have made quite lucrative careers out of crusading to push the pragmatist-in-chief leftward, have every interest in pooh-poohing this as mere rumor. However, Woodward’s reputation – as channeler of whatever the current administration wants to put out there – indicates it’s more than that. Replacing Biden with Hillary would put the ostensibly antiwar “progressive” left on notice: if you think “change” applies to the foreign policy realm, then you really ought to be drug tested.
Many on the left accept this. A great deal of the progressive left has already made this bargain with the administration: go left on the home front, and rightward overseas. A domestic “war on poverty” carried out by an administration waging an unpopular shooting war overseas – now where have we seen that before?
The title of the Woodward book, Obama’s Wars, illustrates the new political reality on the foreign policy front. Every military conflict in American history is branded with the imprimatur of the commander-in-chief, and Obama, for all his alleged “anti-colonialism,” is no exception. It’s inevitable that a President will be identified with the wars he fights, and this one shows no signs of backing away from Afghanistan or the site of our most recent incursions – Pakistan.
Indeed, this administration can be expected to ramp up the war effort purely on economic grounds: after all, according to Obama’s Keynesian economic advisers, government spending is the mood elevator that will snap the US economy out of its depression. According to orthodox Keynesian dogma, any kind of government spending will do: building pyramids, occupying foreign countries, dropping freshly-printed bills out of airplanes. Just keep those printing presses rolling!
If the Democrats’ mantra is all about spending, the Republican party line is all about not spending – and there’s no reason why military spending ought to be off the table. As Mark Meckler, a national Tea Party coordinator, put it:
“I have yet to hear anyone say, ‘We can’t touch defense spending,’ or any other issue… Any tea partier who says something else lacks integrity.”
To hear Phillip Dennis, founder of the Dallas Tea Party and a member of the Board of Directors of the Leadership Tea Party, tell it, Pentagon spending must be “constrained and reduced.” Rand Paul vows to go after “waste” in the defense budget, and wants to ban all lobbying by firms, including defense firms, that have over $1 million in government contracts. However, Chuck DeVore, a member of the California Assembly, and the tea party favorite in the California’s GOP senatorial primary, says going after fraud and waste isn’t enough, making the trenchant point that it’s just a rhetorical device to avoid specifics. For the hard stuff, we have to go to a recent piece in Politico linking the tea party’s fiscal conservatism to support for proposed defense cuts. The article cites Rep. Paul Broun, a Georgia Republican and “tea party favorite,” going beyond opposition to alleged waste and fraud, and criticizing the underlying foreign policy that calls for massive “defense” spending:
“’Most of these people want to look at all federal spending and put it all on the table. They want to spend on strong defense, they want to support our troops, but they want to get rid of all the fluff, the fraud, the abuse, the waste in the federal government. They want to see the federal government shrink in size.’
“Broun, a bitter critic of Obama — and no fan of Gates or the history of U.S. military intervention since World War II, including NATO — said the country ‘cannot be a protector of the whole world. We cannot do that any longer. We don’t have the money to do it anyway.’”
Who isn’t against waste, fraud, and cronyism? Even the cronies themselves say they’re against it. But running a more tightly-budgeted, efficient empire isn’t going to solve the problem, which is that imperialism is a luxury we just can’t afford anymore.
As the tea partiers move toward anti-interventionism, by the sheer logic of their position on spending, and the Obama cult moves rightward on foreign policy issues, making Obama’s wars the signature events of his presidency, what we are witnessing is the beginning of a fundamental realignment in American politics. A very liberal Democrat sits in the White House, directing two wars and ushering in a third, while conservatives are rediscovering their historical roots as skeptics of American power to shape events overseas.
As true believers in the doctrine that government power can solve almost all social problems, the logic of the “progressive” position leads its adherents ineluctably down the road to war. The progressive economic vision is naturally empowered by the “national unity” imposed in wartime. The conscription of economic and human resources by government is rationalized by the wartime “emergency,” and rarely if ever rescinded: this, combined with the lure of Keynesian militarism – military spending as “stimulus” – progressives can’t help but find fatally attractive. This is the true history of how government power expanded in America: the federal government has systematically expanded the size and scope of its activities in great bursts of wartime expansion, like a bellows heating up a forge. The Obama-ites are following a well-tread path.
This switching of political polarities occurs once every generation or so. Back in the 1930s, being a conservative opposed to the New Deal also meant being one of the dreaded “isolationists.” In those days, the progressives were all plumbing for war, and the further left you went the more belligerent the pro-war rhetoric became, with the Communist party the most vitriolic of all. During the cold war, the two sides switched roles, with the conservatives going interventionist and the left allying with the antiwar movement. After the cold war, the natural inclination of conservatives was to revert to their historical role as penny-pinching opponents of foreign entanglements, and we did see some of that during Clinton’s rampage through the Balkans. This natural development was unfortunately interrupted by the 9/11 terrorist attacks, which gave the War Party a new lease on life.
That lease, however, is just about to expire, what with the Afghan war going into its tenth year – and national bankruptcy staring us in the face.
As economic doctrines, both conservatism and progressivism or liberalism have their own internal logic. The large and powerful governmental apparatus envisioned by the latter is the perfect engine of the war machine, the only sort of vehicle that could possibly carry conquering armies onto the battlefield and give them the sustenance to stay there. On the other hand, the small and not-very-powerful federal government preferred by today’s conservatives cannot possibly carry the heavy burden of empire: it would have neither the resources (i.e. tax dollars) to finance it nor the social and political weight to compel its acceptance by a skeptical populace.
But of course history is not always logical, and rarely moves in a straight-line progression, and yet ideas do have consequences – and we are seeing these ideas play out as “right” becomes left, “left” becomes right, and the game of musical chairs we call politics continues to develop in ways that are interesting and quite unexpected.
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
I’ll be speaking at California Lutheran University’s Lundring Events Center with Reason magazine senior editor Brian Doherty, author of Radicals for Capitalism, a delightfully comprehensive history of the modern libertarian movement on October 26 from 5:30p.m.-7:30p.m. The forum, with the topic “Anti-Interventionism: The Left and Right Wing Traditions,” is being hosted by the Steven and Susan Woskow Trust and co-sponsored by Students for Liberty, the World Can’t Wait, Ventura County Libertarian Party, Center for Equality & Justice, and Antiwar.com. The event is free and open to the public, but space is limited so please RSVP to secure your seat: Steven Woskow at 805-306-1860.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- A Note to My Readers – June 16th, 2013
- Datagate and the Death of American Liberalism – June 13th, 2013
- Smear Brigade Goes After Snowden – June 11th, 2013
- Edward Snowden, American Hero – June 9th, 2013
- Police-State ‘Progressivism’ – June 6th, 2013





Johnny in Wi.
October 10th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
Great article Justin: I guess I have been saying the same thing here for quite awhile. The only hope for those of us who want the Empire ended and the troops home defending, only these borders and shores, comes from the rising number of small government conservatives and libertarians. You can't have an empire with a small federal government. The left loves big government and it loves sticking it,s noses all over the world. Obama is just following in the shoes of Wilson, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, and Clinton.
davidgrayling
October 10th, 2010 at 10:09 pm
When is this nightmare going to end? When is the world going to realize that America has become a monster, one that threatens the world.
What does America have to do before nations of the world see it for what it is: a warmongering whore who will do anything to impose its empire on the world? And I mean anything.
Perhaps if it nukes Iran people will wake up. 'Oh, we're just protecting the homeland,' Americans will say!
O.K., what if it nukes Iran and Pakistan? 'We just wanted to stop the nukes falling into terrorist hands,' Americans will say!
Like Israel, America is as slippery as an eel and speaks with a forked tongue. It is run by greedy corporations and the Pentagon. It wants endless war and world control!
We, the little people of the world, must stop this monster using any means. Act before it's too late!
http://www.dangerouscreation.com
guest
October 11th, 2010 at 12:27 am
have we forgotten who started both of these wars? George W Bush preached anti-interventionism long enough to get elected in 2000 – and then turned around and embraced nation-building along with nation-wrecking after 9/11. It isn't the "left" who loves overseas intervention, it's whoever's in power, "left" or "right". These racist tea party nutcases -even if they had the inclination – will not change US foreign policy because the War Party and the Wall Street people will prevent it from happening.
Why oh why
October 11th, 2010 at 2:41 am
"the small and not-very-powerful federal government preferred by today’s conservatives"
Really? It is easy enough to find a few members of the corporate-funded "Tea Party" hostile to defense spending; but if Justin really thinks Republican leaders agree with them, he is severely mistaken.
Just wait until the 2012 presidential elections: what are the odds that the Republican candidate will run on a platform of a "small Pentagon" — instead of better, bigger, more wars? And the "Tea Party" will support whoever the GOP picks, as they are paid to do.
As for the rants about Keynesian/progressive economics: when will Justin accept the fact that the free-market policies of Reagan, Clinton and Bush failed badly and led to the current financial crisis?
Denial and more denial: conservatives want to invade Iran and Venezuela, cut taxes for the rich and explode the deficit. Same as they ever were!
bogi666
October 11th, 2010 at 3:33 am
You're quite correct and to not include Bush/Cheney as being a warmongering empiricists is not credible. As for president ObamayaBush being a progressive liberal is absurd and for liberal progressives to support ObamayaBush carte blanche
Johnny in Wi.
October 11th, 2010 at 4:27 am
Most thinking Tea Party people dispise Bush and Cheney. I said that small government conservatives and libertarians were the only hope. Bush and Cheney were big government people both in foreign and domestic policy. They represent the big government,war monger, section of the right. That is people like Theodore Rossevelt, Charles Evens Hughes, Wendell Wilkie, Nelson Rockefeller, the neocons, and the Bushes.
GradyWilson
October 11th, 2010 at 4:43 am
"A great deal of the progressive left has already made this bargain with the administration: go left on the home front, and rightward overseas………As the tea partiers move toward anti-interventionism…..the lure of Keynesian militarism – military spending as “stimulus” – progressives can’t help but find fatally attractive" -JR
Raimondo is simply making shit up to fit his worldview. There is no 'bargain' the progressive left has made with the administration. The tea partiers are not moving toward anti-interventionism (they are 100% military loving, Islam hating warmongers). There is no lure of "Kenyesian militarism" which the progressives find "fatally attractive". Quit your f'ing lying Raimondo and quit pretending a vote for Republicans (tea party) is a vote against militarism. You are being a shameless fraud on this issue.
GradyWilson
October 11th, 2010 at 4:51 am
"Most thinking Tea Party people dispise Bush and Cheney" – lying Johnny in Wi
Well then where the hell were they during those 8 years? Why did it take a black warmonger to bring them into the streets?
The Tea Party Republicans loved the Bush/Cheney regime. And they want similar big gov warmongers elected. You realize that most tea baggers voted for Bush twice and McCain. How can you pretend they are anti-war?
liberal
October 11th, 2010 at 5:04 am
"I said that small government conservatives and libertarians were the only hope."
In addition to GradyWilson's comment, I recently saw a poll result claiming that 59% of libertarians voted for Bush in 2004.
The majority of so-called libertarians only care about one thing: cutting federal income taxes.
RED DAVE
October 11th, 2010 at 5:40 am
He has been lying about this for decades.
John V. Walsh
October 11th, 2010 at 6:13 am
Great column but:
It is by no means clear to me that the US cannot afford an Empire. The world's GDP is about $60 trillion, and that of the US is about $15 trillion, or one fourth of the total. That means that the US can readily spend $1 trillion a year without too much difficulty on Empire. (The per capita GDP of the US is about 1.5 times that of the EU, so in theory it can still spend all this on Empire and still provide a decent standard of living to its people. That it is failing to do so has more to do with domestic priorities shared by BOTH parties, principally their loyalty to the "financial" sector.)
That means that hope of the "collapse" of Empire anytime soon is a dream. It will not collapse; it will have to be toppled by those who care. So the antiwar laptop fatalists better abandon their keyboards soon and do something if they want to see change.
By comparison, China and Japan, number two and three in GDP (neglecting the EU for a moment which is not a single country), each has a GDP or $5 trillion. For either of them to spend $1 trillion on the military is simply not possible.
The problem here is what will happen about 12 years down the road. By then China's GDP, if it continues to grow at the present rate, not impossible for 12 years or more, will be equal to that of the US now, although the US will have grown further – unless we stay stuck in the Great Recession for most of that time. But in 25 years China will have a GDP greater than that of the US,barring some unforeseen circumstance.
This analysis means that as other nations see the rise of China they will be less cowed by the US. Iran is an example, perhaps Turkey and Russia and Brazil also. The US realizes this of course and so it will have to try to stop China or live in peace. (Horrors.) The lords of Empire have no intention of doing the latter so they will try to break China up and set India against it. Failing that they may even try all-out war. So the world is fraught with danger as China rises. Given this, it is quite amazing that the antiwar forces have almost nothing to say about China!! The "left" hates China for many, many reasons and the Right does also because it is "communist."
BUT I would submit that for the US antiwar movement the internal politics of China are not only nearly impenetrable for a foreign observer, they are really irrelevant. For a firm anti-interventionist, China can do what it wants so long as it does not attack the US. And I would further submit that China's foreign policy, which is of concern to the US, is libertarian (Yes!). That is China wants to trade with other nations, but it historically it shows no interest in how those nations operate internally and no interest in changing that. That is good solid Anti-interventionism and good solid Libertarianism. Our job is to curb the Empire and to encourage China's peaceful rise – which will certainly not be done without curbing our own militarism. (Sorry if this is not entirely to the point, but it is where my thoughts took me and take me often.)
John V. Walsh
Mezenc
October 11th, 2010 at 6:16 am
Good point. I've heard phrases like "the more patriotic voters on the right" so many times that it has to be deliberate. "Antiwar" is not "left" or "right."
There was a poll showing a sharp drop in Israel's favorability but the drop was almost entirely among self-described "liberals." That is a sign of things to come. Democrats will not win elections without those liberals, even if they are only 10% of the electorate. Other pieces of the Democratic "base" that they count on to get out and vote are black and Latino voters who are demoralized by being ignored by Obama (except when he goes somewhere and puts on that incredibly fake black accent). They are also not Israel supporters and perhaps hostile as they see that their needs take low priority while Israel gets everything it wants. Jewish voters choose Democrats by a wide margin but many are not Israel fanatics and they are less than 2% of the total population anyway.
Mezenc
October 11th, 2010 at 6:18 am
Justin Raimondo may think Rachel Maddow and Arianna Huffington speak for the people who voted for Obama and the Democrats in 2006 and 2008 but they really don't. There is an iceberg coming at the Democrats; they ignore the people who voted for them in favor of appeasing, placating, kowtowing to a tiny class of Zionist elite campaign contributors. Its hard not to see it.
emsnews
October 11th, 2010 at 6:25 am
For some very odd reason, instead of building bridges to the left, Raimondo is burning them with blow torches! Is this how we build a movement? Not only that, due to being involved as I was with the beginning of the Tea Party, he thinks it is still 'libertarian'! This is pathetic. No real libertarian would pay Palin to give a keynote speech at their 'convention'!
She is a total warmonger! She is a classic 'no tax/wild spending' neo-liberal conservative who has displaced true conservation with wild borrowing fiscally while peddling sexual fear mongering to the masses to scare them into voting for right wing imperial militarism. The Tea Party is the personification of schizophrenic thinking taken to the extreme.
The other problem here is how Antiwar.com can't connect the dots of international banking, free trade and the floating currency and how this is driving us into wars all over the planet. Raimondo does recognize the military/industrial state but not the banking/free trade machine that moves all our (and increasingly, also) non-military work to cheaper labor venues while telling us, the ONLY jobs we can get is in military areas! This herds the US public which has to pay for this via taxes and debt into supporting only military things while passively accepting the loss of civilian production jobs.
Burning bridges isn't going to stop the wars. Fighting the left instead of fighting with the left simply means the militarists will easily sweep both aside.
Greg
October 11th, 2010 at 6:58 am
"The tea partiers are not moving toward anti-interventionism (they are 100% military loving, Islam hating warmongers)."
GradyWilson is simply making shit up to fit his worldview. In any group of people greater than size of 1, there will be differing views. Blanket statements like this make you look ignorant, not that that the rest of your post would lead one to question this notion.
Bob D
October 11th, 2010 at 7:11 am
I have too much respect for Justin even with this newfound unwarranted optimism to lambast him like some of you folks have done. I would just like to direct his attention to the Wisconsin senate race and their debates. Has he been paying attention to them? The news is horrifying. The warmonger branch of the teaparty has its candidate running against an avowed liberal but proven anti-war candidate Russ Feingold. And Russ, a sitting senator fixure in the senate since 1993 appears to be getting shellacked. But what is even much worse, in the debates Russ has felt it necessary to backtrack on his antiwar credentials (votes) and sound like a neocon himself. So you have the disgusting spectical of a hero of the antiwar movement caving in to pressure from the teaparty perpetual war right to moderate a proud and brave antiwar record. This is scary. And if Russ loses as now seems likely, it will serve as a lesson to all liberals who are thinking of opening their mouth to follow the Biden formula, to instead stick with warmonger Hillary, our next president in 2016, after Obama's second term! And it will teach the republicans nothing.
Alan MacDonald
October 11th, 2010 at 7:13 am
Justin, with all the "This switching of political polarities" you note of both the conservative and progressive sides on war and economics, I guess YOU would agree that the only constant is the ineluctable certainty of being either for Empire or democracy? All the rest is quicksand and propagandist guile to trap or fool the rubes, eh?
To rephrase Y. A. Tittle's famous quote regarding "there are old quarterbacks and bold quarterbacks, but no old-bold quarterbacks" — there are Empire-thinkers and democracy-thinkers, but there are no Empirist democracy-thinkers.
Given an honest (and the only true binary) choice, between Empire and democracy, the American people NOW need to make the last decision on earth.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
Bud
October 11th, 2010 at 7:14 am
Question for the Marxist trolls: If the talking heads on MSNBC, the hacks at HuffPo, DailyKos, MoveOn, the PDA, the gaggle of 'socialist' and labor groups that showed up for the Democrat's pep rally in DC a week ago, etc. don't represent The Left in America, who does?
Mezenc
October 11th, 2010 at 7:33 am
How many people were there at that rally? A lot more people vote than go to rallies; I've been to 2 in my entire life and they were many years ago. Personally, I don't think a rally represents anything and nowadays, the purpose is to get on the news so people are bused in. All the groups you mention actively tamp down criticism of Israel like everything is just fine but the polls of the people they are supposed to "represent" say otherwise.
Mezenc
October 11th, 2010 at 7:40 am
Is Russ Feingold really "antiwar?" I look at someone like that and see that he made sure that he made no difference.
I can give you a strong example: In 2006, Joe Lieberman spent over $380,000 in "undocumented expenses" (petty cash) in 2 weeks before the Democratic primary which he lost to Ned Lamont. Thats illegal and Lieberman's campaign was later fined for it, but it took about 3 years. Now, Feingold is supposed to be the champion of campaign finance reform, right? Well, he did not say one word about Lieberman's outrageous abuse of petty cash. Not one word. And Lieberman was not the nominee of Feingold's party and Feingold could have helped Lamont by speaking out. So, what to make of Feingold not taking the opportunity to attack the premier warmonger in the US Senate?
It'll be a good thing to get rid of Feingold. Ineffective antiwar politicians would have gotten out of the way themselves if they were sincere.
Montaigne
October 11th, 2010 at 8:05 am
I noted the mention of handling social problems by the government. That is certainly a dead end street! Need, and especially social need, is a subjective area. So the mnore the government gives, the grater the need becomes. It is that simple, really, and anyone having followed tha European developments would have known that. But of course Americans are always better and different and exceptions.
However, also in the "need" for social engineering in international relations, this problem prevails! It is even more abstract and apt to grow ever more than expenses! For ever and ever RISING. Getting MORE important with more money chasing problems.
Some brutal effects are showing themselves already: you have not enough means to deal with problems legally, but HAVE TO attack them militarily. Notwithstanding civilian causalties, like the 1 million extra dead Iraqians who all had to go to keep some sorts of economic judgments.
Get OUT, go HOME, and FORGET about saving the world, not to mention saving the rides to Disneyland for the incredibly dumb families of the USA.
Alan McDonald
October 11th, 2010 at 8:21 am
This Bud's for you,
How do you feel about democracy? not Democrats.
Do you favor democracy or Empire?
Just asking, Bud
Best,
Alan
MvGuy
October 11th, 2010 at 8:58 am
Speaking of icebergs Mezenc:
“Instead of steering Titanic safely round to the left of the iceberg, once it had been spotted dead ahead, the steersman, Robert Hitchins, had panicked and turned it the wrong way,” Ms. Patten said.
She added that her grandfather, who went on to become a war hero, “was lying” when he told investigators looking into the cause of the wreck that he had no idea what had happened. Ms. Patten said that the ship’s captain and first officer told Mr. Lightoller, the second officer, about the steering error after the crash but he had concealed the truth to protect the reputation of his employer.
Do ya think we are seeing another tragic case of history repeating itself…..?????
Bob D
October 11th, 2010 at 9:22 am
Aren't you confusing Antiwar with political cronyism? Nobody said Feingold was right on the domestic issues. But he was one of few who voted against funding for the war from the very beginning. And unlike Obama and Pelosi who voted against the war until in power, then voted in supported of it, Feingold was cosistent. The neocons are out to defeat him not the His opponent is an unabashed supporter of perpetual war. And supported by the teaparty. Is that who you are for?
In thinking it is good to get rid of him in favor of a perpetual war teapartier you are playing into the hands of the neocons. It convinces me that the Zionist tactics of blacklisting anyone who does not support US intervention in the middle east are still very effective especially on individuals like yourself who tend to ake their eye off the ball.
Joe
October 11th, 2010 at 9:35 am
Mezenc,
Please give us an example of someone in either party or either house of congress, other than the possible exception of Ron Paul, who, unlike Russ Feingold is "effectual" and has "made a difference". I'm all ears.
MvGuy
October 11th, 2010 at 9:40 am
I guess what this all comes down to is family values… Appealing to peoples better angles does not fill the stadium… It's blood an gore what draws them out!! Shows like cops….animals being tortured "funny videos" and "kick their ass and steal their gas" THINKING!! Check out Connecticut…it's WWF country! The guy who saw the collapse coming….Peter Schiff losses to wrestling promoter with 'fake blood' routine… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate…
1 more thing, 911 was a MILITARY coup in a velvet [anthrax] glove… & this.. http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-bl…
Heathcliff_Maw
October 11th, 2010 at 10:10 am
It should be noted that Obama's approval numbers have plummeted since he was sworn in–especially among voters under the age of 30. The discontent among his former supporters is the reason why Republicans are expected to regain control of the House and possibly the Senate.
Calling Obama a liberal is delusional, unless you define Dick Cheney as a liberal. From my experience, most liberals (distinguished from hardcore, partisan Democrats) range from disappointed to disgusted with Obama.
JLS
October 11th, 2010 at 11:33 am
"For a firm anti-interventionist, China can do what it wants so long as it does not attack the US. And I would further submit that China's foreign policy, which is of concern to the US, is libertarian (Yes!). That is China wants to trade with other nations, but it historically it shows no interest in how those nations operate internally and no interest in changing that. That is good solid Anti-interventionism and good solid Libertarianism."
Except for the ongoing claims that China makes on Taiwan and also the claim it makes on some uninhabited islands in the East China sea:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-02/china-te…
donna
October 11th, 2010 at 11:38 am
I would not conflate liberal and progressive–that's just lazy. And I don't consider Maddow or any of the other talking heads to be progressive. They are traditonal liberals who have a long history of turning on the left/progressives when it was convenient for them. They are full of compromises, concessions and give-aways. They support Israel, "humanitarian" intervention and the Democratic Party. Progressives are antiwar—period. They are critical of Israel and would do not always vote democratic. They are a small group whose voices do not always get heard. If we had a third party, a progressive party, the differences would be glaring.
Johnny in Wi.
October 11th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Russ Feingold is my senator. He has always been in the pocket of the Israeli Lobby. He gets massive amounts of money every election from them. He always votes for aid to Israel. The Tea Party Republican Ron Johnson is the kind of small government person that Justin and I are talking about. He is an accountant and a businessman. He can and and subtract. These wars are bankrupting us. The small governmant people will have to face it. You big government liberals all love power and the uses of it. Russ Feingold has done nothing good for this state or the country. He just runs his mouth when it doesn't matter.
Greg
October 11th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
How are democracy and empire mutually exclusive? I think you may have a different definition of democracy (or empire, or both) than what I do. From what I've seen, democracy and empire are certainly compatible. In fact, "unbridled democracy" has a tendency towards empire. Eventually the mob wants to graze on the greener grass on the other side of the fence.
Joe
October 11th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
Donna,
Give us an example of a "progressive" politician , besides yourself that is, who is "anti-war—period." Again, I'm all ears. I love the way you folks distort reality to fit your own definition. Although I, too, would like to live in the world of your distorted reality.
Joe
October 11th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
OK there is Dennis Kucinich and that black congresswoman from North Carolina or somewhere that AIPAC keeps running their hand-picked black woman Zionists against, I stand corrected. But I don't think you can fill an outhouse with many other other left/progressive politicians.
Mezenc
October 11th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
I don't object to getting rid of all of them. Could things be much worse if we had a Congress full of Sarah Palins and Christine O'Donnells? You know, I think it would make it harder for politicians in other countries to back us in our mistakes if we had Sarah Palin-Christine O'Donnell types in the presidency. Some of them actually were able to stand up to Bush because he had an air of jackass about him but imagine if we went all the way to Palin.
Mezenc
October 11th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Bob, are you giving Feingold a pass because Lieberman is his personal friend (if thats the case)? I cannot do that. Lieberman is a vicious warmonger and Feingold stood by and did nothing when he had a trump card against Lieberman. Other campaigns spend nominal amounts in petty cash, under $1,000 or even none. If politicians can spend $380,000+ in 2 weeks without documenting where they spent it, they can hire the Mafia. It was an egregious abuse and it tells you exactly what how much of a phony Feingold is.
If Feingold really cared about civil liberties or opposing these wars, he'd have gotten out of the way himself and supported an effective leader. He's all show.
Mezenc
October 11th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
On foreign policy, Obama is telling the people who supported him, "I fooled you." Not a voting motivator.
On domestic policy, he's making mountains out of molehills. My state, New Jersey, and several others have already done health insurance reform that dealt with pre-existing conditions and keeping people on their parents insurance longer. I was puzzled by the sturm und drang over Obama's bill. The stimulus kept paychecks coming for highly paid union workers, especially state and local government employees. A lot of those people will vote Republican. Couldn't the money have been better used for work opportunities for young people, including minorities? Some of it, anyway? My brother is in local government and he had an idea of hiring young people to clean out old, decrepit infrastructure thats all around the country. Its work experience and physical and we do need to get rid of that stuff.
Mezenc
October 11th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Joe, you expect things to move very quickly, right? Like, presto! overnight.
greendaworld
October 11th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Exactly. Justin spends his afternoons watching MSNBC getting upset at Rachel, Keith, Ed, and the rest. He is confused in thinking, that though they may call themselves "progressive", (and so in reaction Justin gets upset at "progressives") they are in reality neo-liberals. The softer cuddlier version of their other half – the neo-cons. Progressive Democrat is an oxymoron. Real progressives are Green.
Speaking of Which: We do have a progressive third party – the Green Party.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 11th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
I hope you're right Justin and the Tea Party really moves where you think it does but remember, Bush Jr too promised a more humble foreign policy. Don't underestimate the War Party. If they feel the need for another 9/11, it will happen, and the American public will swallow it again. I fear for you that the only possible end the American Empire can meet is implosion. And I fear that a lot more blood will be shed before that happens. Keep up the good work though.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 11th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
I'd just add that I think that American philosophy of life is too much based on utilitarianism for a change of course. For better understanding, I suggest you google on the subject of Honey Bee Colony Collapse Disorder.
BusyBee
October 11th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Good argument, but GDP does not equal wealth. GDP is the sum of all products and services produced within a nation. GDP does not difference between goods. As such, financial services are equally worth as manufacturing when calculating GDP.
According to figures i saw just the other day, manufacturing counts for only 9% of current US GDP. Most factories have been moved abroad, to countries such as China. US is falling behind in real wealth, can't afford empire no more.
KSB29
October 11th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
"Appealing to peoples better angles does not fill the stadium… It's blood an gore what draws them out!!"
Agreed. Ron Paul once said that Freedom is popular. He couldn't be more wrong. Power is popular. Americans love telling other people what to do and how to think. Themselves included.
Oh, and of course Peter Shiff lost. Americans don't want to here that they can't instantly gratify every one of their desires instantly. Save? Produce? Outdated concepts in modern America. We're going to borrow and spend our way to paradise.
thoughtbell
October 11th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
I would add that the cost of the war is also reflected in a rise in GDP.
thoughtbell
October 11th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Dennis Kucinich
bogi666
October 11th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
With all due respect, thinking Tea Party people is an oxymoron in my experience. Having gone to a site all the discussion was by men talking about their "guns" and how bad asses they, legends in their own mind. If guns are considered to be a synonym for penis size, that's what,s was going on at this site.
Montaigne
October 12th, 2010 at 4:47 am
I'm afraid you got something there! Overstretching the ressources then endangers the very USA coherence. And thus all of a sudden it is necessary to keep on wars abroad to remove problems at home from that famous virtual table (which seems to become a religious kind of political argumentation – and itself an ominous sign of the whole emptiness of this empire posturing).
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 12th, 2010 at 7:59 am
And another one about utilitarianism: http://www.google.fr/search?num=50&hl=fr&….
There's a documentary explaining how the Colorado river is being dried up by Las Vegas and Los Angeles, but couldn't find it on the net.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 12th, 2010 at 8:45 am
And a last one on the negative impact on environment and on its own health America has: http://www.whatsonmyfood.org/index.jsp.
What is wrong with the US is the American way of life. The rape of the environment, wars, moral duplicity are inherent to it. Until Americans realise that, nothing will change.
Bob D
October 12th, 2010 at 9:23 am
Ron Johnson, yes I know the type. We had 8 years of a warmongering hypocrite like him in George W Bush. Its true that most Jews won't support either Ron or W. They recognize a neocon zealot when they see one and even they are too sane to support that kind of trash. Kinda like another Jew, Feingold. Believe it or not, there are good Jews. Who are not warmongers or zealot type Zionists. I look where the votes are not what they say. Feingold voted against funding the wars. Where were your tea party neocons?
Bob D
October 12th, 2010 at 9:32 am
Warmonger neocon christian-Zionist Sarah Palin? When did she stand up to Bush? Suck up you mean don't you?
Mezenc, the perpetual war issue must be about 10th on your list of important issues judging by who you support so I don't even understand why you are here. You belong with the neocons. Bill Krystol, no doubt one of your heros is for small government. Just ask him. I'm sure he'll welcome you back, If you can get over the fact that he's a Zionist of a slightly different stripe than Sarah .
Alan MacDonald
October 12th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Greg,
Empire is the disease of Republics as Rome and Ben Franklin knew.
But even a democratic Republic must morph to Empire and through the loss of all functioning democracy.
It could be argued, and has been argued, that the British Empire turned away from Empire with what remained of its functioning democracy when the people (after WWII) realized the truth of what Hannah Arendt had presciently warned of following the path of Empire from her experience with the Nazi Empire, "Empire abroad entails tyranny at home."
Robert
October 12th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
I had need to revisit Rove's famous empire quote today and was linked to JR's Delusions of Empire article of 10/21/04
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2004/10/20/del…
It might be time to revisit this in light of Obama. For every conceivable institutional power extant has only increased their wealth and power under Obama. Everyone thought Rove was speaking in partisan terms but I think his idea of partisan is a bit broader and more subtle.
By my scorecard it is Empire 10, opponents 0.