A recent gathering of the remnants of the antiwar movement, sponsored by something calling itself the United National Antiwar Conference, underscores the reasons why there is almost no effective organized opposition to the present administration’s occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. One has only to look at the conference program to see why the antiwar movement remains marginal, at best: a keynote address by perennial leftist icon Noam Chomsky, who was paired with Donna Dewitt, a left-wing labor official, and also featuring workshops – reflecting some of their primary concerns – on “Health Care is a Human Right,” “Deepening the Base & Building Bridges between the Climate Change, Peace & Economic Justice Movements,” and – most telling of all – “The Rise of Right Wing Populism & the Tea Party: Do We Need a Right-Left Coalition?”
That this question is in dispute tells us how misguided, and out of it, these people are. It also shows how immoral and narcissistic they are: while Afghans, Iraqis, and Pakistanis are being blown to bits, they are wondering whether we ought to be building a broad-based movement that transcends their petty sectarian concerns, or whether what passes for the antiwar movement should be their own personal sandbox.
The panelists were Medea Benjamin of Code Pink; Kevin Zeese, co-founder of Voters for Peace; Chris Gauvreau of Connecticut United Against the War and the National Assembly to End U.S. Wars and Occupations; and Glen Ford, representing Black Agenda.
Now, I did not attend this conference, and have no idea what the upshot of the discussion was; however, Benjamin and Zeese have expressed their support for such a coalition (the former somewhat tentatively, and the latter with more conviction). On the other hand, one can easily imagine that Ford, who has called the Ron Paul movement and the tea partiers “racists,” and advocates of “white nationalism,” and Gauvreau, a leftist who spent much of this speech mouthing all the expected slogans, see a left-right coalition as a deadly threat to “their” movement. What’s interesting, to me at least, is that the cited Gauvreau speech, made at an antiwar demonstration last year, opens with the speaker bemoaning the fact that “It has been difficult to build this demonstration.” The reason, he averred, is because the media keeps telling us the war in Iraq is winding down or over – but surely this excuse doesn’t hold true for the war in Afghanistan, with casualties increasing daily and the carnage making headlines. Yet he tries to put a brave face on it:
“Without a militant and independent movement in the streets, exposing each and every escalation of this war, we can expect only more and more desperate military acts in the service of corporate America. That is why this demonstration, though smaller than some held in the past, is a victory.”
Earth to Gauvreau: A couple of dozen protesters standing around dispiritedly listening to a speaker declare that the smallness of their demonstration isn’t their fault – and certainly isn’t his fault – is a defeat, and there’s no two ways about it. Any bystander who happened upon this mini-mobilization would have to conclude, regardless of his own opinion of US foreign policy, that opponents of US intervention are an isolated and somewhat eccentric minority, with no chance of actually having an effect on the course of events.
After long and bitter experience in the leftist-dominated “peace movement,” I’m convinced that this is exactly how the left sectarians who invariably dominate such gatherings like it. In a real mass movement against interventionism, their influence would be considerably reduced, and their ability to use it as a recruiting ground to advance their organizational ambitions would be very close to nil.
The sectarians of “Socialist Action,” a minuscule Trotskyist grouplet which has been very visible on the West Coast at “peace actions,” admit as much in a 2000-word polemic published in their plonky little newspaper, and on their equally plonky web site (Marxists don’t do the internet, and when they do, the results are laughable). The piece starts out by averring that the model cited by Zeese is the old America First Committee, which opposed US intervention in World War II, as well as the Anti-Imperialist League, which, earlier, led the opposition to the US occupation of the Philippines. Without going into any detail about the latter example, the author goes into a long disquisition contrasting the Trotskyists’ opposition to US entry into WWII with the AFC’s, hailing the “militant” labor “sit downs” as exemplary, in spite of the fact that they had nothing to do with antiwar activism. As the climax of the Trotskyists’ glorious record, Socialist Action avers:
“During the war, the Socialist Workers Party organized to aid fraternization among working-class soldiers of all nations, and they opposed the attempts of the government to prohibit strikes for better wages and working conditions and to brand actions by the labor movement as aiding the ‘enemy.’ Their militant opposition to the war and wartime assaults on the rights of workers to defend their standard of living led the government to indict leaders of the Socialist Workers Party and the Minneapolis Teamsters under the Alien Registration, or Smith Act.”
So, the Trots wound up in jail, to the cheers of the Stalinists and the pro-war “liberals” – that looks like a defeat to me.
Their account of the America First movement repeats all the old Stalinist canards about the biggest peace movement in American history: it was run by big businessmen, it was “anti-Semitic,” it wasn’t really for peace, just pro-Hitler. The article cites the considered opinion of James P. Cannon, the Trotskyist leader at the time, as saying “the ‘isolationists’ in elite circles merely held a tactical difference with those of their peers who were for sending U.S. armaments to Britain.” Their real goal, he thought, was to consolidate their control over the Western hemisphere in preparation for intervening in Europe.
Cannon’s view is nonsensical, as anyone who has read the writings of America First leader and top activist John T. Flynn would readily understand: Flynn was a principled opponent of US intervention abroad, because he understood what turn of the century liberal Randolph Bourne meant when he said “War is the health of the State.” Flynn and his co-thinkers wanted to limit the power of the American state – a goal not shared by Trotsky’s disciples.
In any case, what the Socialist Actioneers fail to note, in their endless polemic, is that the America First Committee mobilized millions against the war: it had 800,000 members (dues-paying members, I might add), and a Washington lobby that very nearly sunk Roosevelt’s ever-accelerating drive to drag us into war in Europe. Massive rallies conducted on a nationwide scale kept the Roosevelt administration in check, right up until the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. The War Party had to take the “back door to war,” as one historian put it, in order to get us in.
So, faced with these two examples – the isolated (and jailed) Trotskyists, and the massive America First movement – which would any normal person consider a role model?
But we aren’t dealing with normal people here: we’re dealing with sectarian ideologues, who fail to see the implications of their own example. The rest of the article is denunciation of the politics of Ron Paul, and traditional conservatives who oppose imperialism: why, just look, they don’t support nationalized health care! They are against open borders! They oppose Social Security! Horrors! They conclude:
“To involve the great majority of the working people of the United States today, the antiwar movement must be a safe place for the most militant and combative components of the unions and of community struggles. It must seem relevant to those whose first waking thought is how to find a job or keep their house. It must be welcoming to the 200,000 LGBT activists who recently marched on DC.
“A united front with the anti-interventionist far right, on the other hand, would require that our movement drop its demand for “Money for Jobs, Not War!’ … It would naturally draw in the openly racist Tea Party elements. Such a ‘united front’ would make the antiwar movement uninhabitable by those most crucial to its success.”
Translation: a left-right coalition would make the antiwar movement uninhabitable by the inveterate sectarians of the ultra-left, whose only concern is to recruit naïve young people into their dying little sects. Trotskyism, today, is about as relevant as phrenology, and about as useful when it comes to building a mass political movement of any kind – and the sectarians know it. They are essentially parasites who converge on any “peace” movement that arises and suck the juice out of it until they’ve had their fill: then they feast on the bones.
“The unity that we need in the antiwar movement today,” the Trots proclaim at the end of their piece, “is the kind of unity exemplified by the United National Antiwar Conference to be held in Albany, NY, on July 23, 2010.”
No. What is needed is not another leftist-dominated “coalition,” which puts on conferences that address the faithful, reasserts their well-worn dogmas, and sponsors marches of a few thousand (at most). You’ll note that these marches nearly always take place on the coasts – especially San Francisco, that bastion of the left’s past glories – but never penetrate into the American heartland. Until and unless they do, the antiwar movement, as an organized force in American politics, will literally remain a fringe phenomenon.
The irony here is that it was the Trotskyists in the 1960s who really understood how to build a mass antiwar movement: the Socialist Workers Party (SWP) had a really effective strategy and that was to make the antiwar movement during the Vietnam era a single issue movement. The idea was to unite all who could be united around a simple axiomatic principle: Get the US out of Vietnam. Period. The SWPers were among the most energetic and effective antiwar organizers because they knew the difference between building a mass movement around the issue of war and peace and building a political party: the former had to be broad and all-inclusive, as opposed to the latter, which, by definition, has a more comprehensive (and self-limiting) character.
Further irony: the cadres of Socialist Action were once members of the SWP. They were thrown out in the purges of the 1980s, when the SWP ditched Trotskyism for the “wisdom” of Fidel Castro. In trying to recapture their glory days, Socialist Action is ignoring the lessons of their own history.
But this isn’t about Socialist Action – a group with about 30 members nationwide. It’s about the widespread attitude on the Left – or, rather, what’s left of the Left – that they’d rather reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. And more: it’s about the whole “left-right” paradigm that divides the oppressed and plays into the “mainstream” media narrative that red is red, blue is blue, right is “reactionary” and left is “progressive’ – and never the twain shall meet. We see this on cable news shows: both Rachel Maddow and Rush Limbaugh profit from this, but the rest of us lose big time. We lose because, although we may agree on a vitally important issue – the futility and downright evil of a foreign policy premised [.pdf] on perpetual war – we are prevented from uniting to fight it because of outmoded ways of thinking.
As long as the organized antiwar movement remains a leftist sandbox, where sectarians get to pontificate – and do little else – it will stay a sideshow. Once we get beyond all that nonsense, however, there are no limits to what we can do: just look at the polls. The American people are with us – and they’re ready to join us in our fight. Indeed, they’ve never been readier. The question is: are we ready to receive them, and lead them?
Right now, the answer is no: I’m hoping that – someday soon – the answer will be an emphatic yes.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Edward Snowden vs. the Sovietization of America – June 18th, 2013
- A Note to My Readers – June 16th, 2013
- Datagate and the Death of American Liberalism – June 13th, 2013
- Smear Brigade Goes After Snowden – June 11th, 2013
- Edward Snowden, American Hero – June 9th, 2013





paulBass
July 28th, 2010 at 4:50 am
no offense but an article that is blaming the left for no antiwar movement and then spend the whole thing talking about how stupid these leftist are, does not seem all that productive.
the question i think is more pressing is, why does it seem that any one on the right who has not read Murray Rothbard is a blood thirsty warmonger.
or perhaps why in a country that prides it's self on being free and having liberty, must the adult population depend on college kids and communist cells to oppose their elected leaders most blatantly wrong policies?
although to speak for my own little efforts we have a bunch of left wing older people in my neighborhood and we counter recruit and distribute flyers every week on Palestine iraq and Afghanistan, and im the closest thing to a right winger that has ever showed up,
epppie
July 28th, 2010 at 5:15 am
You, who cannot mention the Left without spittle flying out of your viciously sneering lips, dare to bitch about not getting enough regard from the Left? Pathetic and sickening doesn't even begin to take the measure of this screed.
Tom
July 28th, 2010 at 5:37 am
What I would like to know is where is the Libertarian anti war movement? In about twenty five years of anti war protests and political activity I have rarely seen a Libertarian or independent other than a handful of Ron Paul supporters in the last presidential cycle.The chances of Libertarians leading the US out of the war in Afghanistan are less than zero. Unlike the left the Libertarians have no popular support among the urban masses.
The Obama/Clinton traitors have been revealed. With these treacherous pro capitalist war mongers revealed a new and stronger anti war movement may now emerge.
Good luck
July 28th, 2010 at 5:42 am
Stalled? Did it ever get going?
I also dispute the anti war movement had any influence on US policy during the war in Vietnam.
Basically the war will lose support in Europe and eventually burn it self out.
augustus818
July 27th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
@Epppie Here we fucking go again. Thanks for proving the man's point. "HE SAYING MEAN THINGS ABOUT MEEEEEE!!!" Is not gonna fucking cut it. If you were paying attention, the point was we won't get anything done until we at least temporarily cut out the all the finger pointing, and doom saying about Tea Party closet racists are hiding under our beds. Until we can set aside the relative petty bullshit (I'm not saying it's without merit or meaningless) more people are going to needlessly die. That's far more important to me than stroking people's ego's.
Brodajo
July 28th, 2010 at 6:49 am
I think in order to stop these endless conflicts we are going to have to demonize the ones that volunteer for military duty, causing a draft which would put masses of protestors in the streets.
One of my quotes is "I think volunteering for Military Duty is the dumbest legal thing a human being can do."
mother of necessity
July 28th, 2010 at 12:16 am
the antiwar movement is stalled because, first of all, it's fueled by bullshit… it's fueled by bullshit because nobody, including leaders of the "antiwar movement", is allowed to tell enough of the truth to make any sense to anyone.
for instance: as of this posting, a google text search of "operation enduring turmoil" is returning 38,200 hits, including thumbnails of five maps… what the hell is that about? …and why cant the leaders of the "antiwar movement" tell us what it's about?
second of all, people have come to regard their govenment as weather… to be enjoyed if it's nice, to be endured if it's chickenshit… but either way, there's not much you can do about it.
there's probably a "third of all" and a "fourth of all" and a "fifth of all", but…
Michael Cecil
July 28th, 2010 at 7:18 am
Why is the anti-war movement stalled?
That's easy.
Because the most *lethal* argument against war is the argument based upon Revelation rather than theology, religion, or secular humanism.
And it is the specific *goal* of the mainstream, 'alternative' and Internet media NOT to allow that argument to be presented.
mother of necessity
July 28th, 2010 at 7:24 am
i'm not asking much.
just one thing: what is "operation enduring turmoil" about?
Nergol
July 28th, 2010 at 7:44 am
> What I would like to know is where is the Libertarian anti war movement?
You're reading it, doofus.
mother of necessity
July 28th, 2010 at 7:51 am
if this is the best the libertarian "antiwar movement" can do, we're in a world of hurt, arent we?
RightOn
July 28th, 2010 at 8:45 am
I think this is an interesting analysis, with good history to back it up..
Montaigne
July 28th, 2010 at 9:04 am
Couldn't one reconcile anyone with any sort of conviction by the simple noting of the DISAPPEARANCE of reason and accountability from the rulers, especially now when they are engaged in wars, and the more so, the less meaning the wars have.
It is collective suicide, they are engaged in, and that ought to unite anybody resonably addicted to a life on earth with meaning! A true common enemy of the populations! Yes, also of those abroad!
mother of necessity
July 28th, 2010 at 9:11 am
you need to calm down and buy a lady gaga album.
mother of necessity
July 28th, 2010 at 9:33 am
you gotta get the videos to get the full… whatever it is, i'm not convinced it's "benefit"… of gaga's career.
thoughtbell
July 28th, 2010 at 9:38 am
I don't think the article is off the mark at all in directing some disappointment if not blame in the direction of "the left". Once Obama showed that he wasn't going to close Guantanamo but rather escalate drone attacks in Pakistan and advance death squads, not to mention extending wire tapping, secret detentions, immunity by reason of state secrets, etc., the left should have been furious. This administration speaks about justice, looks to the power structure, turns right around and fuels violence, cuts adrift human rights and liberties, and extends environmental and economic injustice. But while the right kind of rhetoric and shoe polish is in the white house, the left seems to founder in leftness–as if some kind of political name brand could replace outrage and mobilization.
mother of necessity
July 28th, 2010 at 10:02 am
the last thing we need to do is ackowledge the fact that thinking of the government in terms of "left" and "right" is obsolete.
if we acknowledged that, we'd be creeping up on the truth, which is intolerable.
liberal
July 28th, 2010 at 10:04 am
"Once Obama showed that he wasn't going to close Guantanamo but rather escalate drone attacks in Pakistan and advance death squads, not to mention extending wire tapping, secret detentions, immunity by reason of state secrets, etc., the left should have been furious."
I can assure you that as an American liberal/leftist, I _am_ furious. Problem is that large chunks of the Democratic Party aren't that liberal, and there are some chunks who are slightly liberal but for some reason are enthralled by Obama (I call them O-bots). Criticize Obama for anything regarding the wars or the bankster bailout in blog comment sections, and the O-bots go nuts.
mother of necessity
July 28th, 2010 at 10:05 am
meanwhile, nobody wants to explain what "operation enduring turmoil" is.
mother of necessity
July 28th, 2010 at 10:07 am
it's best, for sure, if we buy lady gaga videos, and prepare to be wiped out by other people's grandchildren.
mother of necessity
July 28th, 2010 at 10:12 am
johnny cash: hurt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmVAWKfJ4Go
28,634,452 views
.
gaga: bad romance…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrO4YZeyl0I
252,655,297 views
mother of necessity
July 28th, 2010 at 10:17 am
probably the most operative idea here, is: are the gaga fans gonna throw us off the bus when they cant afford us anymore?
you couldnt kill your own granny and grampa, could you? …bad karma.
so you get shipped off to elsewhere, to kill other people's granny and gramps.
oughta work.
GradyWilson
July 28th, 2010 at 3:55 am
I thought Raimondo and his friends Ann Coulter and Michael Steele were leading the anti-war movement now?
Just who does Raimondo think he's kidding with his condesending self righteousness? He builds no bridges to the Left. Just the opposite – he embraces vulgar elements of the right – like MacCarthyism, Coulter, etc.
There are NO bigger hypocrites than "anti-war" free market libertarians. Its the capitalist pigs who are behind US imperialism. They own it, they profit from it, and they depend on the US military to spread their fictitious 'free markets'.
GradyWilson
July 28th, 2010 at 11:00 am
Right on eppie.
Egret
July 28th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Does anybody remember the Hired Hat, er, Hard Hat Riot of 1970? Real men, manly men, showing those commie pinko leftist scum that Real Americans™ didn't protest against the government.
mother of necessity
July 28th, 2010 at 11:24 am
would somebody please explain why there are now 37,800 google hit on "operation enduring turmoil"?
is that too much to ask?
Louise
July 28th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Rather than Anti War we need Pro-peace movements with agendas tackling the roots of conflict directly; their economic and cultural motivations which we as consumers uphold everyday with our transactions. We need strategists lobbying as vigorously as political groups do on an international level, we need economic resources that can equate to the giant companies, who let's face it like perpetual war – it's good for business – Nitrates – fantastic investment…
We need to help struggling countries have more options than conflict. We need to be in the field making peace the only option, and conflict no longer available as a choice. No weapons = less casualties. We need to stop the supply routes. Even the military – especially the military, after 'seeing their mates blown up around them' Dannat (Iraq Inquiry) doesn't want to go to war they would much prefer to keep the peace. If you want to stop the war stop the people who benefit, who profit from it; being able to. I'm sure you would then see conflict end very quickly
jon
July 28th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
The anti- war groups only come out when the republicans are in charge.
Aaron
July 28th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
True libertarians adhere to the non-aggression axiom.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block26.html
So your argument that ""anti-war" free market libertarians" are the biggest hypocrites holds no water if you are referring to true libertarians, which Ann Coulter and Michael Steele so happen not to be.
As far as spreading free markets at the tip of the sword, which is laughably absurd, exactly what is Obama spreading at the tip of his?
Peaceful_Idiot
July 28th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
All they do is alienate folks with their divide and conquer BS. They love and advocate "militancy", puke.
They are authoritarian tribalists. Who needs them anyway?
GradyWilson
July 28th, 2010 at 6:06 am
Free market ideology is the foundation of US imperialism. When any leader of a foreign country refuses to assume a subservient role to the US capitalist interests they are subverted through covert regime change or direct militay intervention. Freidman's support of the murderous Pinochet regime is an excellent example of libertarian ideology justifying US military intervention in the name of 'free markets'. Libertarians side with the US state department and their fascist puppets in Honduras, in Venezeula, and in Colombia. Libertarians are anti-war frauds. Look at who funds the Cato Institute – the same people who profit from US imperialism. Look at Friedman's role like I mentioned or Greenspan's role in supporting the imperial state.
btw – Obama is a servent to capitalist imperialism – not an opponent of it. How naive are you?
john
July 28th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Both Dennis Kuchinich and Ron Paul have crossed the left-right divide to focus on the necessary change of foreign policy, but this gives me little hope as the neo-cons continue to exploit this divide by placating those who are dependent on big government social programs, and leading those who ,while they may give lip service to limiting government spending on social programs, have no problem with massive government spending on foreign intervention, and the iettisoning of the Bill of Rights–except, of course for the Second Amendment. Unfortunately, the tea-baggers fit into this latter category, supporting the wars, but condemning the social programs–the only exception being those older tea-baggers who want war, Social Security and Medicare, yet talk about less government and lower taxes. Furthemore, they see Mexicans who come across the border to do the jobs Americans will not do as a threat to soverignty, but have no problem with a foreign policy that is created in Tel Aviv. In the end I see little hope for an effective anti-war movement as The United States marches toward war with Iran.
Michael Cecil
July 28th, 2010 at 7:06 am
And the LAST thing that we should do is suspect that there is actually a *theological* origin to the conflict between Jews, Christians and Muslims. What an utterly outrageous and nonsensical notion THAT would be: that religious conflicts actually have something to do with RELIGION.
The MOST important thing is to preserve the secular humanist paradigm as the final determiner of Absolute Truth…
Even if preserving that paradigm of 'Absolute Truth' results in the annihilation of human civilization itself.
It's WORTH it…
Just like the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children because of the sanctions on Iraq.
FBastiat
July 28th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
One answer: the inability of too many to overcome the Spite Right mentality. Don't believe me? Just look at all the bashing of Paul, Buchanan, and fellows for "being in bed with the Left."
Greg
July 28th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
What you correctly identify as the problem is that business is manipulating government for its own ends, in this case war.. But why you think government manipulating business will achieve a more desirable outcome, I cannot say.
Where you went wrong was in assuming that the free market libertarians support a system whereby business may influence government in order to profit.
Ask yourself this. As long as we grant the government power to distribute trillions of dollars based on the decisions of a few dozen or a few hundred individuals, will we ever free ourselves of corruption?
Ike Hall
July 28th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
OK, enough with the bickering and name calling and factionalism. We will never, NEVER, get the U.S. out of its endless interventions unless we have a single organization devoted to this cause and no other. And if we don't want to call it the American Anti-Imperialist League, fine. I don't care. Call it whatever, as long as the goal is to end American military intervention, and that's all. So, who's got a good name? Let's get this started.
the Legendary Bill
July 28th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
"demonize" may be too strong a word, right? Some of these kids are economicaly desperate, some are sadistic adventurers and some just didn't have any plans after H.S. The racist, sadists should be demonized, but they already don't care what you or I think…
john v. walsh
July 28th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Justin's arguments are right on the money – and I say that as one on the Left, at least if you define "left" as being for single-payer and other such programs.
The "left" as defined by the conference to which Justin refers and by a "P"DA conference held the same weekend consists of either Democrat Party animals who harbor more loyalty to Dems than opposition to war or doctrinaire and ineffectual socialists such as the ones to which Justin refers. These are both being ever more marginalized on the political scene.
The "left" would do well to look at some of their revolutionary heroes more closely. Mao was willing to make alliances with the devil himself to get China out of the hands of colonial masters. And he got the job done – whatever one may think of the result. (I for one think China has been moving in an ever better direction.)
So to end war and Empire, we on the Left must ally with and RESPECT those on the Right who share our views on this the greatest task before us. If we do not succeed we may all wind up dead. The wars of Empire can spill over into WWIII at any time and right now the Middle East and Central Asia are a tinderbox. They will remain so until the US gets the hell out of there. The lives we save may be our own.
Aaron
July 28th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
"When any leader of a foreign country refuses to assume a subservient role to the US capitalist interests they are subverted through covert regime change or direct militay intervention."
How this in any way pertains to libertarianism or those who subscribe to it I know not?
Friedman may have supported free markets, but in no way was he a libertarian. As for the Cato Institute I believe Mr. Raimondo has taken care of them on a number of occasions.
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2007/04/02/lib…
Anyone who could even mention Alan Greenspan in the same paragraph with free markets or libertarianism is truly off base. The head of the FED a supporter or free markets? A truer oxymoron there is not.
As for Obama, I would say he is a servant to corporatist imperialism, stop dragging capitalism through the mud. After all, "Everything You Love You Owe to Capitalism".
http://mises.org/daily/2982
Jeremiah
July 28th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
Has anyone heard whether the recent "Come Home, America" conference has borne any organizational fruit yet? ( http://comehomeamerica.us )
I understand Mr. Raimondo's frustration with myopic ideologues who are too busy clinging to their status as big fish in dwindling mud puddles to mount an earnest, ecumenical effort against war and empire. But, as he also reminds us, there *are* precedents for substantial inter-ideological antiwar movements—and, what's more important, we now have within reach the raw stuff out of which such movements are made: growing popular disaffection and war-weariness. But how do we harness it? I'm not entirely sure myself—but I *do* know that the process will involve PRINCIPLED pro-peace activists of *all* persuasions, who will, of necessity, side-step the ideological mud-puddles. Might the incipient "Come Home, America" movement—or something like it—be the very unifying force we need?
Good luck
July 28th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
1) An anti war effort in the US is pointless, that has been demonstrated over and over again from 1776 atleast.
2) If you want to support anti war movements try the UK. Respect-Renewal (Which was destroyed by Labor). And The British Nation Party, anti immigrant crazies but who are still standing. If you are an American and the anti immigrant stuff bothers you, consider it a British domestic policy issue you are too far removed to understand. I think there are some Dutch parties, one Socialist on Anti immigrant but pro Zionist, if I read the news report right. Ultimately what might end the wars is if Europe pulls out of NATO. Severely limiting NATO is already a topic of discussion. So if you have some extra cash, investigate European parties. If you want to raise money, raise money for those parties.
3) Think about this: What does Code Pink, Westboro Baptist Church, Cindy Sheehan, the Liberterian party, and the various veterans peace groups have in common? If the answer is nothing forget about it. Go European.
But the reality is the groups above do have some things in common. In addition to being powerless, they have agendas that include issues other than the war. And those issues will always distract them.
As far as the US goes, once again forget it. If you insist on doing something here are my idea: Demand your local community investigate municipal bankruptcy, only an investigation, that's it. This will scare people that are expecting fat pension checks. No anti war, no liberal/right/left anything. Just an municipal chapter 9 bankruptcy exploratory group.
Alternatively a Bradley Manning legal defense fund might be nice. I also think O should pardon the young man. As Bush II illustrated Presidential pardons may be the only think a 'war president' has power over.
Way ItsAlwaysBeen
July 28th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
You will never beat the billionaire war profiteers. They own the military, government, media. Any real threat to them will be called unpatriotic and if need be taken out.
GradyWilson
July 28th, 2010 at 9:54 am
"You will never beat the billionaire war profiteers. They own the military, government, media. Any real threat to them will be called unpatriotic and if need be taken out. "
I concur. But lets define who "they" are who own the military, the government, the media. They are capitalists. They are McDonnell Douglass, they are GE, they are Boeing, they are Monsanto, they are KBR, they are Xe, they are Goldman Sachs, they are Chase, etc, etc. They are the foundation of American capitalism.
The history of America is all about war, empire, and capitalism. They go together. Libertarians are deluding themselves pretending there is no relationship between the US history of militant imperial aggression and free market capitalism.
generalissimo x
July 28th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
i see some points here, but really the 2nd paragraph says it all. what's confusing to me is why there is any debate about the left right paradigm when it is in fact a false paradigm created by the political and media elites to keep us divided. which it is doing with a high level of success judging by this column and many others. it has nothing to do with the left and the right unifying, but rather citizens of our once great republic need to rise up en masse and demand a return to the rule of law and true subservience to the constitution. if this happened, the entire false paradigm BS would disintegrate and we could reclaim true political discourse in this country.
i've said this before, and i apologize for redundancy but no debate on ending the wars is relevant or will be ultimately useful until we truly understand their root cause: 9-11. this is the fulcrum on which the american empire and permanent warfare state swings. 20 arabs in a cave over came at least half a dozen security agencies and not one word on how…just they hate freedom. once 9-11 truth is on the table, the lies and deceptions of the wars themselves will be evident to all.
DavidSpero
July 28th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
The left-led antiwar movement was moribund long before Obama's election, although that threw some dirt on the grave. The movement lost energy because nothing we did made any difference, not because of sectarian differences. I'm afraid that until "antiwar" becomes associated in people's minds with "revolutionary change," Americans will mostly ignore the antiwar movement.
The difficulty for the left-right alliance paradigm is disagreement on what that revolutionary change will be. But Scott Horton recently pointed out to me that secession and nullification, traditionally associated with the right, could be two strategies that bring left and right together.
Maybe.
Nelson_2008
July 28th, 2010 at 6:09 pm
"Why is the antiwar movement stalled?" Coming from a person (Justin Raimondo) at a web site (antiwar.com) that's in a sense helping the "government" cover up the 9/11 inside job, that's rich!
You see, unfortunately, the "government" has made this into an all or nothing survival situation. If you're not willing to go all the way, i.e., wherever the truth leads, and you're obviously not, then you have no business even asking this question.
DavidSpero
July 28th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
MOther of Necessity,
According to pakalert, one of the 32,000 hits you mention, Operation Enduring Turmoil is the Neocons plan to disassemble Pakistan, give northern Pakistan to Afghanistan, Southwest Pakistan to the Balochs… all this in an effort to restrict Chinese access to energy and herd energy resources towards Israel, the Mediterranean and Europe.
charley caruso
July 28th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
The antiwar movement doesnt exist because a certain ethnic group doesnt want it to exist.
The wars in Iraq and Afghan are supported by that ethnic group, which sees the wars in the national interest of a certain Mideast country that has the undying loyalty of that ethnic group.
charley caruso
July 28th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
The antiwar movement doesnt exist because a certain ethnic group in the U.S. doesnt want it to exist.
That ethnic group sees the wars in Irag and Afghan as being in the interest of a certain Mideast country, which has the undying loyalty of that ethnic group.
Sal Paradise
July 28th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
When we focus on the war, on the Empire, left and right can find common ground. The simple way to break the coalition is to spread the message out to include economics.
Scott Horton's interview with the late Howard Zinn reveals the secret to success: keep it light. When Scott spots and opening to push his adjenda, Zinns says smilingly, "Why Scott, you sound like a Libertarian!"
Justin, I'm one of your biggest fans. But this is your annual piss-me off article. You get one. You're done for 2010, OK? (-;
Voice
July 28th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
YOU ALL NEED TO READ "the report from iron mountain "
THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF THE CREATION AND MAINTENANCE OF
"the war system"…
Bianca
July 28th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
While it is true that libertarians have not distinguished themselves in practical matters, and have never been able to capture the imagination of masses — neither did the left. And give Justin some slack, the criticism of the left will not hurt the antiwar cause. The points he raises are real, and some lessons are in order. The Tea Party movement is at present in danger of being coopted by the Sara Palin, the corporate lackey with proven track record and enough of populist swagger to make her the queen of the movement. Libertarians are not getting it. While the movement consists of many who understand the calamity of foreign adventures, whose will be cast aside by the simple Palin mantra: Obama spends too much, and is not militant enough. Hence, we "real" Americans are getting poor because the undeserving are getting free ride under Obama, while the wars could be easily won should we just have sufficient will. Antiwar movement needs to show its patriotism by coming up with a simple mantra of its own, and uniting all patriots — red and blue.
E. A. Costa
July 28th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
Perhaps some more virtue on the part of the American people could save us? Yes sir, I think so.
E. A. Costa
July 28th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
"Virtue is key. Nothing else is of the same necessary essence."
King Dennis of Scotland
Bon appetit mes enfants!
E. A. Costa
July 28th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
I like the new world order.
E. A. Costa
July 28th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
I'm gay!
3402
July 28th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
The article, Why Is the Antiwar Movement Stalled, argues that the antiwar movement has stalled (true) for lack of "leadership" (false). Who gives a hoot about the Left's divided leadership and its squabbles? The "Stall" is caused by the de facto 'buy out' of potential protesters: no more draft. No more pesky students and vets barking about murderous US militarism. It's a volunteer army now. The end of a draft and its replacement with a volunteer army stalled the antiwar movement.
drosera
July 28th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
JR:
Trotskyites? Isn't that like calling political conservatives Hitlerites? The socialism most leftists identify with is that of Debs and Norman Thomas–you know the ones that paid dearly for their idealism during the First World War. How about using neutral terms in your screeds–leftist, perhaps? You do see the irony, don't you?–your writing "Why don't we just get along and pull together for a united antiwar movement while casting leftists as Trotskyites.
GradyWilson
July 28th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
I understand where you are coming from but blindly "supporting the troops" no matter what or pretending that they are all "heroes", "fighting for our freedoms" is certainly not the answer. At minimum criticism of the enlistees for volunteering to go across the world and kill people who have done nothing to them or their family seems warranted. Remember those GI's in the first wikileaks kill videos laughing as they were taking innocent lives? Those were some psychotic SOB's. And the US military has no shortage of them. They deserve demonization not adulation.
drosera
July 28th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
Everything I love? The medical advances that have come about through Federal tax dollars? The cleaning up of the atmosphere and water through Federal legislation? The Pell grants that helped put me through school? My teaching career supported by State tax dollars? Social Security? Medicare? The Public Library? The interstate highway system? Police and fire? The National Park System? Poor John Galt! No doubt he received the largess of the public in so many ways (though he could not admit it).
GradyWilson
July 28th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
What do you expect from someone who, Glen Beck like, equates all leftists with the evils of Stalin, PolPot, and Mao when no such stigma is attached to the long list of right wing evildoers, dictators, and despots and today's rightwinger? Its disappointing how Raimondo can be so intelligent, insightful, and humane at times and such a paranoid of communism, far right caricature others.
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
As a lifelong leftist, I think you've said it well, and got it right (correct, I mean).
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
Valid observations. The only thing I can offer by way of perspective on what you said, is that many of us don't regard Obama and his mindless supporters as being "left." He's simply the kind of triangulating self-seeker you find in politics all over the supposed spectrum. I'll spare you the disquisition on what this means, in my view…but your essential point is well made and taken. The Mad Obomber has never been any kind of "peace candidate."
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Grady, I understand your view, but the point is *to stop the f**king wars*, NOT to establish who is "objectively counterrevolutionary," or whatever the current vanguard label du jour might be. Let's unite wherever we can, to stop the carnage…and then go our separate, even opposed, ways. Justin is knowledgeable when he speaks about the SWP and its successes, though there were others with different approaches who also achieved good things, as well. Do we care about the people who are being murdered every day by the American empire? If so, then let's lay down our ideological swords and shields…in order to get the *real* swords and shields laid down. Works for me.
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
Well, actually we *do* need each other. Tribalism cuts in a number of directions, and we have to get used to the idea of temporarily uniting on a compelling issue like these nonstop wars, rather than assuring our failure by adopting "touch" postures towards those we disdain. Really.
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
John, all you've done here is to give a reprise of the very point Mr. Raimondo was making. Yes, you're right–there are differences. Imagine! And unless and until people–who are unique as individuals–can reach across their differences to act in a cooperative and determined way…we will likely get little to no results. That's the challenge. We musn't fall in a heap and give in to despair because we have different views on important issues. Adopt the old slogan of the Left about the United Front: "March separately, strike jointly." In this case, the "strike" means to march and do other things together, so the slogan is not exactly useful, but you see the point, I hope. If we are sincere about stopping these wars, we have to give up some of our precious personal ideological baggage…at least long enough to wring some definite victories from those who would like to suppress us all.
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 8:54 pm
Very "right on" indeed. Well said.
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Thank you for that, Jeremiah. I put myself on their mailing list. It is an encouraging development. I want to add that, in response to the gentleman who posted earlier by suggesting we start creating an organization–I don't believe that's what is needed, at least centrally. It strikes me as fine that there are various organizations, if we will only cooperate with each other.
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
Counsels of surrender and acceptance of injustice are part of the problem–not the solution.
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
I see a problem here. I do *not* agree that everyone must "understand X" so that we can then act to stop these wars. Precisely Mr. Raimondo's point is that we do *not* have to share the same construct in order to *act*; all we have to understand is that these wars are killing the soldiers, our freedoms, and serve to increasingly plunge all societies towards a state of barbarism. Leave the Illuminati in whatever cave they may occupy; let the rest of us act together, because anything less ensures our failure and fate.
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
I'm perplexed; do you actually believe that if all Americans were polled on whether they favor "revolutionary change," that most would reply in the affirmative? While there is no way to know this, I'm dubious. The word 'revolutionary' is not a friendly one to most people in our society, I believe.
But what if I were wrong? In any case, we are once again back to focusing on "the correct words," as though that's what we need. Rather, it's the insistence on some kind of catechism to which all must subscribe, that is part of the problem. A big part–not all, but a big one.
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Even repeated three times, this is still rubbish. Jews do not have the capacity to decide whether there will be an antiwar movement or not. This is paranoid nonsense.
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 9:13 pm
Considerable truth in this. It makes it harder for people to see that the permanent war(s) still are a threat to them, even if not in the direct and obvious sense of a military draft. That's part of the work we need to do–to point out that the war is costing us plenty.
Dan Raphael
July 28th, 2010 at 9:17 pm
I think he chose it as an example to illustrate some valid points. He could have focused on a different group and used a different label, and made the same point. It's good not to be caught in the specifics of the example. Having been around and in the left for all my political life (before I could vote), I have to say that while my politics are very different than his, I have considerable respect for Mr. Raimondo's realistic and no-BS way of grasping human reality. I don't for a fact know which label or variety of socialism most leftists favor–maybe most self-labeled "leftists" don't regard themselves as "socialists" at all! It's possible. Once again, we need to get beyond these *petty* concerns, to the one that matters most–the present, ongoing juggernaut of the growing National Security State (variously called) that is both causing and is the effect of the permanent wars. We must stop these wars!
D. Miller
July 28th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
Part of the problem is the method by which the peace movement unsubtly excludes the diverse white American men who have a decent sense of self respect. I've never been to a peace event that doesn't feature a slam at white men. Who wants to join up with that hateful attitude?
In San Jose, we have a peace effort that makes its own lapel pins, and operates on several levels very well if on a small scale. The urban-coastal class doesn't like us around in any capacity and makes this very clear.
Rynn
July 28th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
Kiddo you know you are boring but the least you could do is at least search for some half decent quotations.
p.s. @ EAC impostor.
sean
July 28th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
I am not a great fan of Friedman but this constant lie about him supporting Pinochet is just stupid. He gave economic advice to numerous other governments, including China. So are libertarians now Maoists because of that. Friedman believed that a free society required democratic elections, a free market, and general tolerance. Would people living in Chile be better off living under a dictatorship without free markets or with free markets, from the perspective of a supporter of a free market?
Greg
July 28th, 2010 at 10:45 pm
Hitler was a conservative? I did not realize the leader of a party calling itself the "National Socialist German Workers' Party" could be considered conservative.
sean
July 28th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
I have a further question If free markets require imperialism why is Switzerland not an imperialist nation? (And no, the Swiss Guards at the Vatican don't count).
GradyWilson
July 28th, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Hitler, of course, was a right wing fascist acting in concert with his fellow fascists Mussolini and Franco in Italy and Spain. Hitler and the Nazis also received great financial support from right wing fascists in America.
GradyWilson
July 29th, 2010 at 12:18 am
Milton Friedman did indeed give support to the violent, bloody, fascist Pinochet regime in Chile – in the name of "free markets" of course.
Guess Who
July 29th, 2010 at 12:31 am
You do not understand what a "free-market" is and do not have a clue what "libertarianism" is.
Libertarians/Anarchists adher to the non-aggression principle and apply it consistently (at least those who deserve to be called such). Leftists do not understand this principle either.
Lefties fail to understand the fundamental nature of govt: FORCE.
It is FORCE at the core of socialist economic planning/intervention just as it is FORCE at the core of imposing military might on foreign peoples.
Leftists welcome force on the one hand, but oppose it on the other…very hypocritical. They fail to understand that POLITICAL POWER is the problem.
Leftists LOVE political power and are happy as long as what they perceive to be "one of their own" is in control of it. Hence, the disappearance of the leftist antiwar movement: Obama and Democrats are in power so–as long as some 'free' goodies are handed out to the proletariat–they're fine w/war.
Shane
July 29th, 2010 at 12:49 am
This is the funny thing about leftists: they think a fundamental difference exists between socialism and fascism, supposing that socialism is on the "left" and fascism on the "right" side of the political spectrum when, in reality, they are very similar.
I mean, really, would you have rather lived in "fascist" Germany under Hitler or the "socialist" Soviet Union under Stalin? Both examples demonstrate what happens when massive political power is combined w/a disregard for the individual.
BOTH of these systems advocate for massive govt interventions in the economy and, by extension, the lives of individuals. They are both forms of COLLECTIVISM.
Shane
July 29th, 2010 at 12:50 am
A more accurate spectrum would have "collectivism" on one side and "individualism" on the other. You, Grady, would fall on the collectivist side–where fascism and socialism both reside.
This is why I wouldn't be caught dead around leftist 'antiwar' elements: while their ideology ("damned capitalist war-profiteer pigs!") demands them to oppose foreign wars, they are happy to wage domestic war in the form of using govt FORCE to impose their failed economic ideas on all of us. If your demented minds, 'free-markets' and war are inextricably linked…which is ludicrous considering it is ALWAYS GOVTS WITH TOO MUCH POWER (the kind of awesome power the govt MUST have to impose leftist economic policy) that wag destructive wars.
I don't know of a single modern war that was funded by the free-market, do you? No, its ALWAYS govt-funded, isn't it?
Rich
July 29th, 2010 at 1:05 am
There never was a real anti-war left. The left opposes wars by republicans, they happily roll over for obama and rahm. I can just se them slobbering over Petreus when he gets back. The only real opposition to the US empire comes from Libertarians, not lefty wannabe stalinists who'd gladly invade Finland if they got the chance.
Dan Raphael
July 29th, 2010 at 1:06 am
I believe there's a name for this kind of view…
Dan Raphael
July 29th, 2010 at 1:08 am
"…I wouldn't be caught dead around leftist 'antiwar' elements…"
The entire point of Mr. Raimondo's article is that attitude. Many people *will* be caught dead, if we do not give up such petty egoism and unite to be effective.
Dan Raphael
July 29th, 2010 at 1:10 am
"The only real opposition to the US empire comes from Libertarians, not lefty wannabe stalinists who'd gladly invade Finland if they got the chance. "
If you really see things in such a distorted and polemical way, perhaps you can't be helpful. The antiwar movements in American history were not predominantly libertarian–in fact, there was very little libertarian presence during the Vietnam-era protests.
Shane
July 29th, 2010 at 1:24 am
Leftists do not understand what a "free-market" is and do not have a clue what "libertarianism" is.
Libertarians/Anarchists adher to the non-aggression principle and apply it consistently (at least those who deserve to be called such). Leftists do not understand this principle either.
Lefties fail to understand the fundamental nature of govt: FORCE.
It is FORCE at the core of socialist economic planning/intervention just as it is FORCE at the core of imposing military might on foreign peoples.
Leftists welcome force on the one hand, but oppose it on the other…very hypocritical. They fail to understand that POLITICAL POWER is the problem.
Leftists LOVE political power and are happy as long as what they perceive to be "one of their own" is in control of it. Hence, the disappearance of the leftist antiwar movement: Obama and Democrats are in power so–as long as some 'free' goodies are handed out to the proletariat–they're fine w/war.
Shane
July 29th, 2010 at 1:28 am
This is the funny thing about leftists: they think a fundamental difference exists between socialism and fascism, supposing that socialism is on the "left" and fascism on the "right" side of the political spectrum when, in reality, they are very similar.
I mean, really, would you have rather lived in "fascist" Germany under Hitler or the "socialist" Soviet Union under Stalin? Both examples demonstrate what happens when massive political power is combined w/a disregard for the individual.
BOTH of these systems advocate for massive govt interventions in the economy and, by extension, the lives of individuals. They are both forms of COLLECTIVISM. Report Reply 0 Vote up Vote down
Shane
July 29th, 2010 at 1:28 am
A more accurate spectrum would have "collectivism" on one side and "individualism" on the other. You, Grady, would fall on the collectivist side–where fascism and socialism both reside.
This is why I wouldn't be caught dead around leftist 'antiwar' elements: while their ideology ("damned capitalist war-profiteer pigs!") demands them to oppose foreign wars, they are happy to wage domestic war in the form of using govt FORCE to impose their failed economic ideas on all of us. If your demented minds, 'free-markets' and war are inextricably linked…which is ludicrous considering it is ALWAYS GOVTS WITH TOO MUCH POWER (the kind of awesome power the govt MUST have to impose leftist economic policy) that wag destructive wars.
I don't know of a single modern war that was funded by the free-market, do you? No, its ALWAYS govt-funded, isn't it?
Shane
July 29th, 2010 at 1:37 am
I'm sorry, but I don't see any "petty egoism" about refusing to associate w/people who have ZERO problem w/employing the EXACT SAME kind of govt force/violence against domestic 'enemies' (i.e., those who just want to be left alone) that is currently being employed against foreign 'enemies' who also just want to be left alone.
Leftists only oppose foreign wars because their ideology ("warmongering capitalist pigs!", free-markets = war, etc.) demands it, not out of any kind of sense of morality or opposition to violence/force in principle.
Its called "principle" not egoism.
Tyler Darling
July 29th, 2010 at 1:38 am
I've been waiting for this article for about a year. I'm a Left-Wing Libertarian and I'm sick of the countless hours being wasted bickering. I have my beliefs but I'm open-minded and wouldn't hesitant joining a broader based Anti-War Movement with the Right. In fact, I've been interested in starting such a movement. I'm not sure what to call it, but I want to get it started.
I live the Bay Area and if this any individual who wishes to assist me in this task by all means contact me. If you want to reach me on Facebook (enter Tyler C. Darling in the search box). My email is onlyamortal.darling37@gmail.com
Peace, Love +Respect
DavidSpero
July 29th, 2010 at 1:52 am
Hi Dan, I don't think most Americans would say they were for 'revolutionary change." They would say "I want my job back," or "I want to bring the troops home," or "I want the federal gov't to stop taking over so much of my life," or "I want health care." But in the State we're in, any of those things would require revolutionary change.
So I guess I don't mean to use the language of revolution, but certainly the language of radical change. Because bringing left and right and everyone else together against the occupations means nothing if we're just going to go on peaceful marches. The Left put a million people in the street in one place (the NYC Republican convention) in 2004, and hardly even got mentioned in the media, even though they were all there. That's why the movement faded.
I think we need to work out some kind of language that isn't a "catechism," but in general terms spells out that we are taking the power from the MIC, the bankers, and the Zionists. And that's just a start to the series of miracles that will have to happen to undo the empire. More likely, it will collapse by itself, but then the same issues will come up in trying to recreate a decent society, IMO.
DavidSpero
July 29th, 2010 at 1:56 am
Shane, that is nearly complete BS. There are still far more antiwar leftists than conservatives or libertarians. Also, if you can seriously claim to be against relationships based on force, but approve of the economic power of large scale capitalists and, especially, corporations, you are just playing with words. There is no force like economic force.
voice
July 29th, 2010 at 1:57 am
read the report from iron mountain, then act
DavidSpero
July 29th, 2010 at 1:59 am
You imagine this rigid separation between "free markets" and "government." In reality, the corporations and the government are just different departments in the same company. You are right, perhaps, that no government can ever be the answer. But large concentrations of wealth are always part of the problem, too.
Lloyd
July 29th, 2010 at 2:03 am
Too many on the left have made the calculation that war is just something they're going to have to accept, in order to get single payer, gay marriage, climate legislation, etc. Bush was Hitler to them. Obama, well, they're 'disappointed' in him — when they're not in love with him.
drosera
July 29th, 2010 at 2:11 am
Shane,
Do you really think there is any difference between the government and big business? Tax money goes to private contractors. The oligarchs at the top take most of the money while distributing a small amount to the workers under them. Government is just one way of funneling money upwards towards the managers and owners. To a greater and greater degree there is no independent structure you can call government–it is all corporate/government–forever intermixed through lobbyists making law and bribes being slipped to legislators.
And how do democratic socialists FORCE their failed ideology on all of us? Hmmm…by encouraging elections that aren't bought by corporate candidates? That's ridiculous–democratic socialists don't force anyone to do anything.
A war funded by the free market? That doesn't even make sense. The 'free market' is a concept, not an entity that could declare war. Let's pay attention to what words mean.
Ike Hall
July 29th, 2010 at 2:25 am
I think it might, but it's very slow-growing right now, and I do not know the outlines of the collaboration. It may not be an actual organization per se.
Ike Hall
July 29th, 2010 at 2:35 am
Yes, we read it. But most people won't bother. Should we risk alienating them?
Shane
July 29th, 2010 at 2:37 am
What is a "left-wing libertarian"?
I've heard this term a few times and it sounds like a contradiction in terms to me…
Ike Hall
July 29th, 2010 at 2:40 am
I see where you're coming from, but I'm not about to advocate the sacrifice of innocents just to make their parents wake up and take notice. The relatively low casualty rates (for the armed forces, anyway) in both Iraq and Afghanistan is a function of (among other things) technology and the volunteer nature of the troops. The generals can only go so far, sacrifice so many troops until their recruiting pool dries up.
Shane
July 29th, 2010 at 2:41 am
Nah…leftists are only antiwar when Republicans are in charge.
Your points are very vague, please give me an example if you'd like a reply.
BTW, corporations are legally-created fictions of govt.
Its really quite simple: either interactions are voluntary or involuntary.
Govt = involuntary
Free-market = voluntary
Ike Hall
July 29th, 2010 at 2:44 am
Hmmm. "White Guys Against War". I like it. Maybe something a little more inclusive: "Fathers Against War." There's a group you don't hear from every day.
Shane
July 29th, 2010 at 2:45 am
I agree, there is a very entrenched govt-big business 'partnership'. However no one recognizes force as a legitimate tool when it comes to business, but most DO see it as legitimate when govt uses it.
"Democratic socialism"…that would indicate to me that you are fine w/using govt to FORCE laws onto the whole of society. Am I wrong?
What doesn't make sense about me saying the free-market doesn't fund wars? Is it so hard to understand that war is only engaged in by GOVTS? By "free-market" I mean VOLUNTARY…how often do people VOLUNTARILY fund and fight in wars?
Ike Hall
July 29th, 2010 at 2:47 am
Let's face it, there was very little libertarian presence anywhere in those days! Today it's a little better, but until libertarians are willing to join forces with those of different ideologies, we're going to be wandering in the wilderness for a few years yet.
emsnews
July 29th, 2010 at 2:49 am
Correct. Justin is a guy on the sidewalk yelling at the work crew cleaning the streets. The left is really screwed up but so is the right. The focus for both should be on sheer survival: we cannot spend infinite money on wars. Nor can we have open borders to the entire planet for either aliens coming here to take jobs or free trade to suck away jobs and leave us with immense trade deficits.
Both of these monsters must be dealt with but Justin and his friends are pro-free trade while screaming about 'imperialism' whereas the leftist at the Albany meeting wanted to let in millions of illegal aliens! Talk about between a rock and a hard place!
We have to stop free trade and our endless wars not for moral reasons but because the USA is going rapidly bankrupt. Period.
emsnews
July 29th, 2010 at 2:57 am
We must emulate Ron Paul and Kucinich! I admire both men. They are very different in many ways but have the wisdom to join forces when tackling the same problems!
Aaron
July 29th, 2010 at 3:04 am
And where did all those tax dollars come from? Did they just grow on trees. No, they were taken from the productive class i.e. the capitalists. Federal tax dollars don't advance medical science or clean up the atmosphere or build interstate highways, but entrepreneurs (capitalists) sure do make those things possible.
MoT
July 29th, 2010 at 3:21 am
Right on! Seems that for many on the left or right that unless you pass their ideological "purity" test you're only worthy of having a shiv thrust between the ribs. I look at it this way… If you can't set that aside for the sake of putting an end to the endless wars then all the rest of that bullshit you say you stand up for is really just mental masturbation.
MoT
July 29th, 2010 at 3:24 am
I agree that there seems to be ample supply of racist sadists in the American camp. And they come in a rainbow of flavors, too.
MoT
July 28th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
Thumbs up for your idea about bankruptcy exploratory groups. That's novel and I like anything that makes the parasites nervous. As far as the mighty O pardoning young Manning? Fuggedaboudit. He is truly screwed because the imperial O has already shown us he is a dyed in the wool warmongering swine. He's the sneaky lying kid who got his chance to pull the trigger during his presidential "drive by" and he ain't letting anyone take the gun from his hands!
MoT
July 29th, 2010 at 3:53 am
We mustn't forget that without the Palin media "image" being massaged from both the left and right she wouldn't be getting as much traction as she does. It's all too convenient. All too slick to be either spontaneous or independent.
Chas
July 29th, 2010 at 4:03 am
well Justin is an example of ideological dogmatism — the same as the current crop of American Leftists/Socialists which are a pretty depressing bunch I'll admit — its just that he's conveniently aligned with an orientation that can honestly say that its agenda has never been tried, so who's to say it wouldn't work? But the Left has brought down governments in the past and the only reason the 60's Anti-War movement did not, is, like it or not, because they were not Leftist enough. Let's not forget it was the Left that launched the revolutions of the 1800's and it was the Left that brought down the Czar and took Russia out of the Great War in 1917, hardly the doing of a bunch of warmongers. Of course those revolutions are anathema to Justin. But, you gotta face it, they're the only ones that ever worked.
RockyRococo
July 29th, 2010 at 4:04 am
OT, but in response to a digression of Justin's, "Marxists don’t do the internet, and when they do, the results are laughable", but http://www.marxists.org/ is one of the most astonishing resources created on the web, precisely because there is no on e that would profit financially from this massive undertaking, yet there it is, almost incomprehensibly huge and comprehensive.
camus10
July 29th, 2010 at 4:39 am
the problem with progressives
agree with Justin not linking with other related movements to gather in the shade of a looming Oak tree. Just one example to cite. Healthcare Reform. The WH passed its diluted version. Since then the opposition has gone astray. All credits to Kevin Zeese and Code Pink for their public opposition. What they dont want to see why their dissent was ignored by the corporate dems. Thats a crucial lesson to re-visit.
My take is the lefty groups are not open to self reflection but a whole lotta self righteousness, yes. There are some intolerant elements. The single payer movement was asking too much and unprepared to expand on other issues such as Canadian style price controls coops, Tort reform and the unacceptable cost of defensive medicine. Before you can win big battles you have to practice winning smaller skirmishes.
About the antiwar movement, I cant understand what is so hard about reaching out to grieving military families and bring their stories out in the open on youtube and rolling shows of solidarity blocking national hiways. It seems Cindy Sheehans group and the rest are at odds.
GradyWilson
July 29th, 2010 at 4:12 am
Why do you deny the obvious historic reality that the underwriters, owners, and profiteers of militant US imperialism are capitalists spouting 'no limits on property rights', 'no regulation', 'no checks on capital' libertarian dogma? Why do you not see the obvious relationship between US capitalism and US imperialism.
Libertarians like Shane give aid and comfort to the oppressive imperialist capitalists rather than those who oppose them. Do you support the US backed military coup in Honduras or the freely elected leader? Did you support the freely elected Chavez or the US back coup attempt? Do you support the US backed fascist regime in Colombia or their resistance? Far right libertarians side with the fascists in the name of property rights. Far right libertarianism is the current home of neofascism. That's why guys like Shane (and Raimondo, and Thomas DiLorenzo, and William Anderson, etc, etc) are so filled with hate towards the Left, just like their like minded militant imperialist right wing brothers in government.
voice
July 29th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Let them decide for themselves.
And if we, whom have decided after years, to have finally read it, then they will too.
Only truth can unite and then free us!
Shane
July 29th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
We have uber-regulation of corporations (remember, corps are GOVT-CREATED) and have had it for decades upon decades…hasn't prevented wars.
Again, you're confused about the right/left, fascist/socialist spectrum.
I don't support GOVT INTERVENTION, period. In fact, I don't even think govt, itself, is a legitimate institution.
So, no, I don't support any of the things you list above.
It is YOU, my misguided friend, who is denying history: GOVTS declare, fund, and FORCE people to fight in wars, not any private entity.
And I don't hate "the left", per se, but I DO hate violence, coercion, and theft–don't you?
Shane
July 29th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Once again it is YOU who is relying on socialist/fascist/communist dogma while I'm relying on logic and reason.
Anyone who hasn't figured out by now that giving politicians power over society is a bad thing probably will never get it…
richard vajs
July 29th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Pretty apparent to me why the left is not protesting these wars (Afghanistan / Iraq / soon Iran). These are wars on Muslims, fueled and ignited by America's collective nose being firmly lodged in Israel's collective rump. A lot of the Left is conflicted. They may hate fascism and the slaughter of innocents, but then their hearts are in Jerusalem.
GradyWilson
July 29th, 2010 at 8:36 am
You are not relying on logic and reason at all. You stated in a previous screed: "I don't know of a single modern war that was funded by the free-market, do you? No, its ALWAYS govt-funded, isn't it?"
Well of course "the free market" doesn't do any f'ing thing because it does not exist. Its an ideological concept not to be found in reality. What you do find, especially in American history, is capitalists who spout free market ideology directly funding wars and backing politicians who advocate imperial aggression . American capitalists banks were heavily invested in both World Wars and used their power and influence get the US involved. They obviously made a killing. Are you familiar with US capitalists role in Latin America today? Does it have to be even mentioned that the US imperial pursuits in the Mideast are on behalf of capitalist oil interests? The history of America is all about capitalist imperial plunder. You can't claim the capitalism is pure and the imperialism is evil. Without the militant imperialism there is no capitalism.
Dan Raphael
July 29th, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Well, Mr. Raimondo, there are 125 postings now…any more clear about why the "peace movement" is so ineffective?
camus10
July 29th, 2010 at 9:19 pm
what is equally perplexing is why the evangelical right has absolutely no sympathy – maybe no contacts either – for the plight of Palestinian christians
Bob Bogus
July 29th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Watching the Lamestream media you'd never know their was an anti-war movement or any opposition to these wars at all.
I watched little Brian Williams this week and last, and even with the Wikileaks revelations the only thing little Brian had to say regarding public opinion was that the majority of AmeroCons still supported the war in Afghanistan.
conumishu
July 29th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Or we just could leave the world, and all of us in it, in peace.
NewandExciting
July 30th, 2010 at 12:17 am
I agree with Dan. How we arrive at the conclusion is really besides the point. Honestly, wanting to stop this insanity crosses a lot of political and ideological divides. The trick is getting people to co-operate ins spite of these differences.
NewandExciting
July 30th, 2010 at 12:35 am
Yeah Dan, it's a lot like herding cats or pushing on a string or ice skating uphill…
You have both Shane and Grady calling each other out on ideological grounds which is kind of a nice spontaneous example of the barriers to co-operation.
Auntie_Spinster
July 30th, 2010 at 12:52 am
I can't help but think that the BIG LIE (the official story of what happened on 911) is at the root of all this confusion and back-biting. If we could all just push for a new proper investigation of the events of 911, the rest of it would get sorted out somehow.
lukeweyland
July 30th, 2010 at 12:59 am
Calling all Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, Christians, Muslims, Hindus etc who want peace
Peace must be an issue for everyone – The left Included
The left only dominate theAnti-war debate because they are fully committed to ending the war – while too many of the others go about wishing, praying and hoping.
If it were not for communists, left wing pastors, and their collegues, there would have been no 60's peace movement, and the Vietnam War would have dragged on even longer, homosexual practices would still be a crime, blacks would still be denied their votes, & Washington would still turn a blind eye to regular KKK lynchings.
What about having some right wing think tank calling out : Exploitation yes! Extermination No!
or defend America but dont bomb the planet?
The Left welcomes liberals, conservatives and reactionaries alike ( from whatever creed they follow) in their campaign against the endless slaughter engaged by the USA and others.
Dan Raphael
July 30th, 2010 at 2:14 am
Well, *this* leftist appreciates your thinking. Until and unless we have speakers and organizers who say–and mean–"You don't have to share the opinions of others about why we need to end these wars. We are all united in the simple fact of *wanting them to stop–now!* and that is enough. Let's keep it focused there, and if we can achieve that, we should all feel that we have truly moved a mountain."
Bob Morris
July 30th, 2010 at 6:13 am
"Marxists don’t do the internet, and when they do, the results are laughable."
That's because Marxists *can't* do the internet. Building a presence on the web is about two-way communication. You build relationships, you link back and forth, exchange sometimes opposing views. things like that. But your typical Marxist zealot has no interest in that. For them, the web is about we tell you what the truth is and you listen. And that's why their websites tend to be laughable, dogmatic – and irrelevant.
Montaigne
July 30th, 2010 at 7:05 am
Don't you agree then, that NON-ACCOUNTABILITY is at the root of the problem? If one allows the government to be the one power with an inborn right to define right and wrong, truth and false, you already at that point have an intolerable kind of regime.
It was not presented like that, but I think on reflection, that was the crack taking place – this offer silently being made part of social observance as necessary.
The president got away with defending goint to Disneyland as the great expression of "freedom", and going after "bad guys", using all means of still unaccounted for criminal acts and lies. Could only happen, I think, BECAUSE the cultural degradation ALREADY must have taken place in the general poulation. And that is a process which with alarmingly speed will transform the USA to at best a meaningless, low-grade civilization. Which to me seems no better than total annihilation anyway.
guest
July 30th, 2010 at 11:02 am
justin – you had it right way back when you were churning out "the israeli files".
J. Clifton
July 30th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
What's so complicated?
1) The antiwar movement is stalled because the youth is not personally invested in it (unlike the Vietnam era, where the draft forced them into mobilizing mass protests).
2) The movement is also stalled becuse of the mainstream-currying editorial decision of AWC to reject acknowledging the role of false flags (i.e., that 9/11 was an inside job) in creating mass emotional support for recent US interventionism. So long as the backdrop sentiment of most voters is "those towelheads started it, they had it coming," all our pretty arguments against blowback will be ignored. "…For pleasure and revenge have ears more deaf than adders to the voice of any true decision."
3) The movement also needs to look at the long view of how the corporate military industrial complex has longed to get the US back onboard the endless war conveyor belt we got off after Vietnam. We need to understand had it not been for the Watergate scandal weakening the Presidency, the US military machine would doubtlessly still be in Southeast Asia in a manner following the Korean model. The MIC want ALL our interventions to be long-war engagements, and a large fragment of the 'failure' to stabilize Iraq and Afghanistan is actually deliberate, as it justifies a longer term occupation.The longer we fail to address and expose the planned failure and how these 'winless' wars fuel their very continuation, the longer it will take to shut down the war machine.
thoughtbell
August 2nd, 2010 at 10:14 pm
You are simply mistaken. The government today is in the pocket of corporations, with the military industrial complex being one segment of the corporate reason for going to war. The reason we go to war is not about "isms". We go to because growth must be maintained, the Open-Door Policy must be maintained in which cheap labor and resources of far-away places continues to be fodder for the growing corporate superstructure; it must have access to oil, tin, tungsten, coffee, palm oil, lumber, etc., etc. In my view, you are treading a risky path–stating political ideology because it rings true to you–without checking you ideas by reading up on the history of war or about how the global system functions today.
The_Cshot_Cpot
August 3rd, 2010 at 1:28 am
"Support", huh? *sigh*
You've been reading that one bimbo's diatribe again, haven't you GradyWilson.
Klein may well be a pretty good author but she certainly does not know how to research evidence to back her opinions. Milton Friedman never lent his "support" to the Pinochet regime. Ever. Anyone with a decent work ethic can research Dr. Friedman's writings on Chile and see that he never supported the Chilean dictator's policies in any way, shape, or form. He even refused two honorary doctorates from Chilean universities because the said universities had accepted public (i.e. stolen) money.
Silly leftist. Here is something that I will leave your puny little brain to think about for while: economic policies of left-wing ideologues demand that AMERICAN JOBS, AMERICAN WORKERS, and AMERICAN INDUSTRY come first in an age of globalization, correct?
If so, how do such isolationist/nationalist policies promote world cooperation and peace? Seems to me like such hyperbole would contribute rather heavily to global misunderstandings, don't you think?
International, free markets are a much better alternative to national, "protected" markets in promoting world peace and prosperity.
P.S. you should get a job!
The_Cshot_Cpot
August 4th, 2010 at 7:05 am
I'm not so sure that war is good for business. Just look at the mess the world economy is in right now.
How is war caused by "consumerism"?
And I know that you are NOT going to advocate economic nationalism (tariffs," national resource protection", "job protection", etc., etc.) because that is the quickest and surest way to start hostilities throughout the globe.
mike butler
August 5th, 2010 at 4:27 am
well as a libertarian socialist, I would definitely recommend sticking to the left but to the bottom. I do not agree that the most important issue is "ending the wars" or that building a single issue "left right" coalition should be a priority. I would advocate a lot of listening, not to glenn, paul, maddow, but to those who are at the bottom, whether left or right, that have been marginalized because of unemployment, poverty, coal or uranium mining, or other oppressions. I would advocate meeting these folks personally and building mutual sustainable relationships and working together in empowering ways.
phillyworkersvoice
August 10th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Chris Gauvreau answers Raimondo's red-baiting attack
"The antiwar movement is not stalled, as Raimondo alleges, but steadily reawakening. It is obvious that illusions in Obama and a Democratic Party Congress are on the wane and that confidence in the antiwar movement’s independent power is growing. Had Raimondo bothered to attend the conference—and had he bothered with the ABCs of journalism in order to get his facts straight—he might have picked up on the vitality and momentum that characterized the proceedings." http://phillyworkersvoice.wordpress.com/2010/08/1…
Robert Brager
December 30th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
"http://www.marxists.org/ is one of the most astonishing resources created on the web, precisely because there is no on e that would profit financially from this massive undertaking…"
For lack of a better qualifier that wouldn't require several paragraphs worth of digression, I'm a libertarian, of the Rothbardian variety. Thought it may surprise you, I indeed find Marxists.org to be a website of great merit and would urge all students of political economy to pass through its gates. Among other impressive features is that the site doesn't shield its readers from scholarly critiques of Marxian concepts. That the site features, unabridged, Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk's wonderful "Karl Marx and the Close of His System" speaks well of the genuine intellectual curiosity one often finds there. Beyond that, there's also the disconcerting-to-many reality that, whatever else their faults, the Marxists made meaningful contributions to economics or, at the least, posed questions that needed asking. It makes one certainly long for the days of the 19th century Methodenstreit, where – free of the baggage of 20th and 21st century conflicts – the thinkers in the various schools of thought could argue the merits and demerits of one another's inquiries.
Marxists.org has its corollary on the libertarian side of the discussion in Mises.org. There one may find thousands of books, magazines, and scholarly papers,all available free of charge. I think it would behoove us both to recommend the other to our comrades in either camp to explore our traditions and establish common ground. I'd certainly direct the Grady Wilsons of antiwar.com to pay an earnest visit to the Mises Institute's site, as they're woefully misinformed as to what libertarians actually believe, how their arguments are structured, and how libertarian policy would work in an applied setting. Just as I'd direct the Johnnies in Wisconsin over to Marxists.