Ron Paul and the Libertarian Moment
"Freedom in our time" – is it possible?
The news that a Rasmussen poll has Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) running in a dead heat against President Barack Obama in a hypothetical Paul-Obama face-off for the White House has the pundits fuming. Ben Smith, over at Politico, can hardly contain his annoyance: the poll "is a useful reminder of how totally flaky early polling is," he rants, and "this is the Ron Paul who polled, literally, thousands of votes placing fifth in the Iowa caucuses," and then only breaking ten percent after everyone but McCain had bailed. This evaluation depends on a static model, however: back then, there was no bank bailout, no insurance industry takeover, no tea party movement, and Ron had no real public record to run on – the 2008 campaign, in short, was a way for the country to get to know Rep. Paul, and the Rasmussen poll is a clear indication they liked what they saw. Instead of invoking Paul’s showing in the Iowa caucus, it’s more useful to compare this poll to the results of another similar Rasmussen poll taken in 2008, in which, as the pollster reported, "For Ron Paul, 10% of all voters would definitely vote for him. Fifty-nine percent (59%) say it’s No, no matter what."
Voter sentiment is now completely reversed: today, he’s in a dead heat with a sitting President. No matter how hard you try to minimize that, it’s an astonishing fact.
What Smith has to say about the perils of early polling would normally be accepted as beyond dispute: after all remember when Fred Thompson was the man to beat for the GOP nomination? However, we are not living in normal times, which I define as any period when Americans abandon their traditional attitude toward politics: i.e. indifference bordering on contempt. These days, the indifference has given way to not only awareness but also to active engagement, and the contempt for politicians has turned into a burning hatred, i.e. the very stuff and fuel of politics.
What makes it possible for Paul to ride this untamed mare is that he isn’t a politician at all: he is, in fact, the archetypal anti-politician, a professorial figure who lectures Republicans on the gravity of their fiscal and foreign policy sins, and is about as charismatic as plain oatmeal served without milk and sugar. What’s more, he tells the public what politicians have been loath to tell their constituents, and that is the necessity of deflation and the bearing of economic pain. In Paul’s view, the economic bubble generated by the Federal Reserve‘s inflationary policies has led to the current downturn, and nothing less than gritting our teeth, cutting spending radically, and allowing the market to correct itself from government-induced distortions, is the cure.
His message, in short, is eat your spinach – not something any politician who hopes to keep his job (or get one) would normally say. But then again, as I said above, these are not normal times: far from it. The crisis of the American republic is acute, as we teeter on the brink of bankruptcy and our overseas empire shows every sign of imploding, just like the old Soviet Union – and, what’s more, the American people know it.
As our corporatist masters feast on our tax dollars in Washington, out in the provinces voters faced with economic ruin are looking for some explanation, a conceptual framework that gets at the root of the problem and provides some solution. Paul’s rising popularity is due to the fact that he does indeed have a consistent philosophical approach, one that has propelled him from being a mere marginal figure – a "gadfly," as they said – to a very real contender. Yes, that’s right, I said a contender for the White House: it’s real, it’s possible, and here’s why.
Paul has consistently emphasized two themes that successfully capture the sentiments of the average American voter, and address the top two issues on their minds: 1) Fiscal sanity, and 2) A non-interventionist foreign policy. As regards the first point, Ron is the foremost opponent of government spending in Congress, and has earned the sobriquet "Dr. No" many times over. But of course practically all Republicans at least pay lip service to this ideal, although none that I know of lives up to it like Dr. Paul. However, it’s the second point – opposition to imperialism, and especially opposition to our crazed post-9/11 foreign policy of perpetual war – that is the key.
As Paul explained at the CPAC conference – where he won the presidential preference poll – and on many other occasions, we can’t have our old republic back unless and until we rid ourselves of the empire we’ve acquired along the way to bankruptcy. Lecturing them on the evils of Woodrow Wilson‘s "progressivism," and the virtues of the Old Right’s Robert A. Taft, he received a standing ovation (as well as a few boos from the minuscule-but-loud David Frum Fan Club). A similar reception occurred at the Southern Republican Leadership Conference, where he came within a single vote of winning the presidential poll (losing only because the SRLC officials closed registration early, betting correctly that Paul’s youthful supporters wouldn’t show up until it was time to address the convention).
What’s interesting about this, from the perspective of my readers – a majority of whom are not libertarians, I dare say, and are not generally sympathetic to my "anti-government" views – is that the more Ron talks about the one subject that is supposed to rile Republicans – his foreign policy views – the more popular he gets. It was the leitmotif of his CPAC speech, and a main theme of his SRLC speech: his opposition to what he calls "the Empire" inveigles its way into most of his public utterances: even if he’s asked a specific question about, say, the economy, he emphasizes the impossibility of ever getting out of the economic slough we’re in unless we throw off the burden of empire.
Paul’s candidacy is interesting to the antiwar movement, because he has managed to mainstream ideas that were long considered too radical for the ordinary American to even bear hearing about. To even raise the idea that the 9/11 attacks were "blowback" – in CIA parlance, an unintended consequence of US policies – was once considered a cardinal, self-marginalizing sin. Yet Paul took this view from the beginning: that the attacks were the boomeranging after-effects of playing "king of the hill" in the Middle Eastern sandbox and succoring the Afghan "freedom fighters" (as Ronald Reagan called them) who later morphed into al-Qaeda.
When Paul bravely brought this up at a Republican primary debate, the thuggish Rudy Giuliani said he’d "never heard" such an analysis, and demanded that Paul withdraw his statements. Paul refused, and cited the 9/11 Commission’s own words to back up his point, and yet the pundits in the peanut gallery crowed that Dr. No was finished, a "gadfly" who had been swatted by the thuggish Giuliani.
After spending millions in the GOP primaries, Giuliani was rewarded with exactly one delegate. Paul went to the GOP convention with a small but respectable platoon of elected delegates, and in spite of being thoroughly locked out the Paulians stayed in the party and worked at the precinct level, educating activists and recruiting lots of independents and conservatives previously disdainful of the GOP. The Paul movement was really the GOP’s lifeline to the emerging "tea party" movement, of which it was always an essential – and certainly a founding – element.
Again, what’s distinctive about the Paul movement within the tea party phenomenon is that they always bring their entire politics with them wherever they go: they raise the issue of the costs of war, and, as such, are currently the most active – and certainly the most successful – antiwar formation in this country. Here we have Code Pink leader Medea Benjamin offering to join in common cause with the tea partiers, and I think they should take her up on it. the Paulians are the logical mediators between what would, on the surface, appear to be oil and water.
As I said in a recent issue of The American Conservative, however, I don’t think the prospects for a left-right alliance on the issue of war and peace are all that bright, to begin with because what used to be the left has essentially been absorbed into the Obama cult, and co-opted by power. In the end, all liberals really care about is getting their "fair share" of the spoils, for themselves and their supposed constituencies. So what if the price they have to pay is going along with mass murder in Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Pakistan? We all have to die sometime.
I harp on Ron Paul for all sorts of reasons, but the one of most interest to my readers is the fact that he is by far the most successful antiwar politician in recent American history. Derided as being one of those dreaded "isolationists," and attacked even by some alleged "libertarians" precisely for that – and because he appeals to the common man – he not only insists on raising this issue, for him it is central to his analysis of what he calls the "Welfare-Warfare State," a phrase coined by the late Murray Rothbard. Dr. Paul’s diagnosis of a nation fast exhausting itself in an orgy of spending and militaristic adventurism has the stark ring of truth about it – an alarm bell ringing in the night.
When Paul and others first sounded that alarm, back in the early formative years of the libertarian movement, very few were heeding the call. We were looked on as eccentrics, and, for example, the libertarian enthusiasm for gold was viewed as indicative of our archaic perspective, put down as an ideological curiosity and nothing more than a "crackpot" notion and a bad investment. Today, of course, those libertarian doomsayers who said the crisis was coming have been vindicated – and all that gold they bought way back in the 1970s, and kept buying in spite of the disdain of more worldly investors, today adds up to quite a bundle. Which is one way to get around to saying that a great deal of Paul’s newfound political authority and credibility comes out of his having predicted the current economic downturn. Virtually every speech made in Congress, and wherever he appeared, was dotted with references to the coming collapse if we didn’t mend our ways. Well, we didn’t, and it’s here.
That’s one factor the learned Ben Smith, and the rest of the "experts" and media know-it-alls fail to take into consideration. What fuels the tea party phenomenon and the vast anger animating the American public at the moment is the series of bailouts: the banks, the auto industry, the government workers, the Afghan government of our erstwhile ally, Hamid Karzai, not to mention the Israelis, the nation of Iceland, and maybe even the Greeks, for all we know.
As ordinary people see their homes foreclosed, their jobs evaporate, and their savings disappear, the rich get richer – not because of capitalism, or even "socialism," as the tea partiers describe the Obama administration’s philosophy, but due to corporatism, as Ron Paul recently explained. Corporatism is, in essence, socialism for the rich, that is, for the benefit of certain big corporations over other big corporations, and a raft of would-be smaller competitors. That would seem to be a precise definition of what’s going on in the country today, one that fits nicely in with the left-right synthesis the Paul movement represents, and for which the country yearns. Paul sweeps the independents in the Rasmussen poll, with an astonishing 47-28. Add to this Paul’s appeal to what a recent Pew poll characterized as rising "isolationist" sentiment, and what you have is a new American majority based on the proposition that the US government should start minding its own business, both at home and abroad.
So much, by the way, for those "libertarian" academics and ivory tower Deep Thinkers who pointedly snubbed Ron, and his supporters, just as they had been doing
for years, constantly denigrating his chances of making a significant difference and echoing the orchestrated smear campaign launched by neoconservatives against Paul’s personal character and that of his supporters. Accurately tracing the Paulian strategy to a series of articles by Murray Rothbard written in the 1990s in favor of cultivating "right-wing populism" as a vehicle for the introduction of libertarian ideas into the national discourse, these self-styled ultra-sophisticates sneered at the "rednecks" and rubes the Rothbardian strategy would attract: and they specifically turned up their noses at Ron Paul.
Instead of following the Paulian star, as most other libertarians were doing outside of Washington, D.C., they sought to recruit their liberal friends and fellow cocktail party goers – or at least make themselves less unacceptable in the Washington social circuit, where the Obama cult reigns supreme. In a self-conscious rebuff to libertarians outside the Imperial City, these worthies – mostly subsidized by a certain eccentric billionaire, owner of the largest family-owned corporation in the United States – launched their own "liberal-tarian" movement, as they dubbed it, which, so far, consists of either three, or perhaps four, stalwart cadre, all of them employed by the same eccentric billionaire or one of his satellites.
To even compare the respective achievements of Ron Paul and these
sub-political pygmies is to diminish Ron’s astonishing success: the
latter don’t want to create a real movement. Their goal is to suck up
to whoever’s in power, and somehow convince them to let us have a
little more liberty, and a little less warfare, all the while ensuring
their own career prospects and social status in the Washington pecking
order.
They said it couldn’t be done: that the Paul movement would go nowhere, and that it would hurt the libertarian cause to have the Good Doctor become known as the fountainhead and symbol of the freedom movement in America. They gave money to his worst critics – and to his son’s opponent running in the GOP Senatorial primary in Kentucky – and used their mouthpieces to defame him. They did everything they could to destroy him – and now he’s running even with Obama in the polls.
These bare facts should tell libertarians everything they need to know about what kind of leadership they need, and who is going to provide it. At this crucial juncture – the libertarian moment – these losers will pardon our dust as the rest of us move confidently into a future when we can truly raise that old libertarian slogan, "Freedom in our time," and really believe it as if for the first time.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Up Against the FBI – May 23rd, 2013
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013





mark green
April 16th, 2010 at 6:45 am
Me thinks it's time for YOU to simply not talk about Ron Paul on this site. Riamondo's remarks in no way turn people away from Dr. Paul, spinach and all.
Back to the Huffington Post where you belong you philistine fool!
lifelonglib
April 16th, 2010 at 7:08 am
As you wish.
Bye!!! (and no the door did not hit me on the way out)
augustus818
April 16th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Yes it did, you're just too brain dead to realize it.
iceblue
April 16th, 2010 at 8:43 am
I liked the piece, Justin.
PainfullyAware
April 16th, 2010 at 9:09 am
Ron Paul is a "Liberty Lifeline".
The more this man is allowed to speak the better off all will be when "Eventualities" arrive.
Anyone advocating a return to Constitutional Rule is an ally.
Education is the only "Weapon" that can turn the tide against "Mentally Minuscule" thinking.
Consider The "Spirit" Of America's Founding Documents; As Well As Their Interpretation.
Do Not Give Up Hope In American Humanity. (they are a rowdy bunch) Mythos Is Powerful; Keep The Good And Remember The Transgressions As They Are. (Mistakes and Injustices Are The Best Teachers) Focus must be placed upon Wisdom over Detriment if we are to navigate times of uncertainty.
Money Drives Power. Evil always seeks power; Decentralization is key to limiting its resources.
For Those Who Wish To Brave The Dangers Of Expanding The "Set" They Consider:
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org
http://www.house.gov/paul/
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/
Complexity Favors The Sinister.
Kindness Is Never Wasted.
Lloyd G.
April 16th, 2010 at 9:17 am
The media smear machine already mentions "Ron Paul supporters", extremist militias, and the KKK in the same breath. They'll go completely spastic if Ron's the GOP nominee in 2012. 2012 might be a fun campaign year.
pwi
April 16th, 2010 at 10:03 am
Ron Paul will not be the nominee of the GOP, Kucinich will never be the nominee of the Dems. The apparatus of death (the status quo machine) for such politicians has yet to begin to chug smoke and turn its wheels, when it does that will be that.
Now is not 2012 and polls now mean little. Also Dr. Paul's age will be a problem unless his "movement" is solid with an apparent heir, (this leadership you refer too) if not that to could very well be that.
And frankly anybody should be running even with Obama at this time.
Now could he run as a third party canidate? Sure but when a third party canidate wins anything other than a little state election, you let me know.
The death grip of the two party system is not going to be easily removed from around the neck of the voter. I guess it would be worth a try and currently Ron Paul is the only vessel in which to put the eggs. Kuchinich caved on health care, if you can cave once on a core belief…?
RED_DAVE
April 16th, 2010 at 10:51 am
I believe that libertarians have as many fantasies about Paul as liberals have about Obama. Paul is a thoroughly compromised capitalist politician. His complaint about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is at root that they are damaging capitalism. He is a racist, anti-abortion, and has spent his life helping the Establishment run its game. The big boys are a little peaked right now, so Doc Paul will make a home visit if requested.
When he quits the Tweedledee (or is it Tweedledum) capitalist party, starts supporting strikes, calls for the nationalization of the banks and resistance to and roll-back of foreclosures, he might be worth llistening to.
RED DAVE
Ground_Control
April 16th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Don't go away mad……..
doc noss
April 16th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
"about as charismatic as plain oatmeal served without milk and sugar."
I have always disagreed with this characterization that Dr. Paul is uncharismatic. The words that come out of his mouth alone make him the most charismatic politician I have ever had the pleasure to listen to.
lifelonglib
April 16th, 2010 at 6:12 am
This article is a good way to keep liberals voting for Democrats.
OK I get it you think that, as a liberal, all I really care about is 'getting their "fair share" of the spoils, for themselves and their supposed constituencies. So what if the price they have to pay is going along with mass murder in Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Pakistan? We all have to die sometime'
If Ron Paul DOES win the Republican nomination, do him a favor and just don't talk about it on this site. You'll turn more people away from Paul then you attract to him.
Peaceful_Idiot
April 16th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Kucinich also caved wrt Kerry and the war. Kucinich is a caver. So what? Kucinich is NOT Ron Paul.
Former Democrat
April 16th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
I'm a registered Democrat (although I voted for Ron Paul in the caucuses), because I want to vote in the closed primaries. However, I no longer have any use for either of the two parties, and I've completely walked away from the Democratic Party, after first Harkin, then Feingold, and lastly, Kucinich willingly walked into the Obama veal pen and became absorbed.
If the Presidential election were between Ron Paul and Obama, I'd vote for Ron Paul without batting an eye. For me, it's Ron Paul's adherence to the Constitution and his non-intervention policies that bring me back into the fold. Especially now that Obama has turned out to be worse than Bush as far as civil liberties and indefinite detention and spying on citizens goes.
I have been following FDL and some of those commenting are leaning toward Paul. Not many, but some. Things are truly changing (I didn't know about Medea Benjamin seeking common cause with the Tea Party–that's refreshing to hear).
Thank you for this column, Justin Raimondo. Some of us "liberals" are coming around (or, in my case, coming back) into the fold.
omop
April 16th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Congressman Paul has already made the "insiders" gossip in Tel Aviv as , well lets just say part of the word, "anti…….
The one potential Democratic candidate that has the "insiders" on her side is Congresswoman Deborah Wasserman-Schultz from Florida who is already committed to;- "meet and participate with any organization that supports Israel and supports peace and is working to foster an advanced peace process. I want to be able to maximize my ability to advance the interests of Israel, and there are different organizations doing that. AIPAC is one of them, and I’m committed to them. J Street has worthy goals as well. The more advocates for Israel in America, the better.”
Any bets on who would win in 2012?
Connestee
April 16th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
I think Justin needs to get over his obsession with the Tea Party. Nearly every TP'er I know is a Republican who is now pi$$ed off because Obummer was elected. They shouldn't be mentioned in the same paragraph as Ron Paul because they are pro war of any kind and only complain about excess government spending when it is being spent on something that is not pro military/empire.
M.R.Lazare
April 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
A few things–
The sort of capitalism Dr. Paul espouses entails the divorce of the state and the market place. In light of that, what, precisely, does it mean for him to be a "thoroughly compromised capitalist politician?" If he had it his way, the federal government would be so comparatively impotent that billions and billions that corporations and other advocacy groups funnel to politicians in order that legislation beneficial to them might be advanced would be a thing of the past. Dr. Paul is beholden to capitalism — but capitalism, rightly understood, simply means freedom. If your charge is that he is beholden to freedom then he is, indeed, guilty as charged.
Dr. Paul's critiques of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are a hell of a lot more multifaceted than that they are damaging capitalism. As a principled opponent of the warfare state — the man's been criticizing both of these wars since before they were waged and has been criticizing the empire for his whole career — his arguments run the gamut from the economic (war and empire are bankrupting our country), to the strategic (our wars compromise American security), to the Constitutional (it is the Congress' prerogative to declare war), and, by no means the least important, the moral (if it is wrong for individuals to murder it is just as wrong for governments to murder).
You say, "He is a racist, anti-abortion, and has spent his life helping the Establishment run its game." He's not a racist. Indeed, his worldview — the individualist worldview — is completely incompatible with racism. Decades ago documents were released in his name that cast him in a bad light. He has apologized a hundred times over and a hundred times more for a failure of oversight. What's the statute of limitations on this?
He is anti-abortion, true. But he has said on many occasions that he wants to see the states decide the issue. No doubt some will make abortion illegal and some will not. I personally am 'pro-choice', but I can respect that it is a tough, divisive issue and that the solution Dr. Paul puts forward is both pragmatic and, more importantly, Constitutional.
As to your claim that he "has spent his life helping the establishment run its game," all I have to say is: you are as off-base as it is humanly-possible to be. Here's a man who has devoted his entire life to promoting the philosophy of freedom; who has stood alone, on principle, throughout his many decades in office; and who who repeatedly passed up the opportunity to capitalize upon his position of power to advance his personal station in life. He is an absolute hero. You, on the other hand, are a slanderer and a caviler. But keep on doing what you do, champ.
JLS
April 16th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
I like Paulistas better than Paulians but great article anyway!
kev
April 16th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
wonderful article.
i had never heard of ron before the debate you mentioned, and then when he gave a press conference to give rudy a "reading list" i knew i would follow this guy.
i always said that dr paul was the one republican that had a chance against obama in 08. he actually represents change, not just a slogan.
what makes me laugh about the tea party and the GOP's whole "hell no" talking points is that its all a pale imitation of dr paul. remember the money bomb? wasn't that on the anniversary of the boston tea party? and of course, dr paul is also dr No as you said.
john
April 16th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
I'm sorry, but as an early and continuing supporter of Ron Paul I cannot see the tea party movement , the birthers, or the rest of those lunatics as paulianas Paulian. The tea-baggers are just a bunch of disgruntled white folk who, like The Republicans that back them ,condemn the increase in central power only when they are not in office. These are the same people who supported the Bush/Cheney assault on The Constitution and The Bill of rights supporting the Patriot Act, domestic spying, kidnapping, torture, and the lies that brought us into an illegal and immoral war. These are the same people who bang their Bibles as they fight abortion but thrill at the spectacle of Middle Eastern women and children being consumed by cluster bombs and white phosophorus. The same people who support Israel's expansion as a prelude to The Rapture and the end times. In fact with Obama's Middle East policy and his embrace of The Patriot Act the tea-baggers should be falling all over themselves in support of him. That they do not support him only leads me to the conclusion that it is not his policies with which they disagree; it is the fact that he is a Black man.
Lloyd G.
April 16th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
Obama's got charisma. Look where worshipping charisma got us.
RobertBrager
April 17th, 2010 at 12:28 am
Six months ago, I would have vehemently disagreed with you. By this point, however, the Tea Parties are almost completely compromised by and absorbed into the Republican Party machine. Here in Olympia, the mood was decidedly pro-state and anti-administration at the Tax Day protests. The slate of speakers were all pro-war: Kirby Wilbur (from whom I learned that a plane had hit the first tower on 9/11, before the second plane struck he was already going on about "acts of war"), David Boze, and others. In Florida, Tea Partiers gathered at the Kennedy Space Center and instead of excoriating the visiting Obama for perpetuating a wasteful government program that effectively militarizes outer space they excoriated him for not spending enough on the space program.
Since the libertarian element within the Tea Parties still exists, however hampered, and the origins of the movement are decidedly anti-war and anti-state, I don't think that proselytizing the anti-war/anti-imperial position among the Tea Partiers is a lost cause or a bad idea and with that in mind I'm only happy to see Justin continue reaching out to those people. But that being said, at this stage in the game – what with the mainstream media having thoroughly disparaged the Tea Parties among people for whom the idea of even remotely objectively examining the Tea Parties would be anathema – I agree with you that it may be wise to not conflate Ron Paul and the Tea Parties as being on the same wavelength.
Paul
April 16th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
Ron Paul is one of the greatest men ever to have lived. I heard him described as a modern day Thomas Jefferson. I think this is not enough as Ron Paul would make a much better president.
jack
April 17th, 2010 at 2:41 am
and the determing factor was/is vegtables and power pigs , oo ,over thair in vIEt NAM,etc,etyc,,,and tha news rolls on
jack
April 17th, 2010 at 2:43 am
dcidn't read it yetr whats' that HEAD/LINE all about
RED_DAVE
April 17th, 2010 at 5:07 am
For people who don't think Ron Paul is a shill for the Establishment, just remember that he was an elector from the State of Texas in 2000 when the Supreme Court handed the Presidency to George Bush. He could have very easily protested at that time. But remember what he did: he voted to seat George Bush.
Muggles
April 17th, 2010 at 12:32 am
Great analysis Justin!
While Ron Paul isn't perfect (his immigration views today are much worse than in 1988 when he ran on the LP ticket) he is head and shoulders above everyone else.
While the corrupt GOP establishment hates him, he is the only person who attracts younger voters and who is about ideas, not some manufactured personality cult.
Yes, kick the Beltwaytarians in the groin while they are down. Never forget and never forgive them. They are ideologically corrupt and deserve to be reviled for what they are: statist dinosaurs in libertarian dress.
They can be safely ignored while the important work of the Paulian movement continues.
DWCarkuff
April 17th, 2010 at 10:55 am
Good response M.R. It is clear from many of the responses that many just can not bring themselves to consider they may be wrong about anything and Dr. Paul is a threat to that conceit because actually listening to him and hearing what he has to say creates an intolerable amount of cognitive dissonance in their minds. Frankly, I view Ron Paul – admittedly an American hero to me – as sort of a rorschach test for many in whom they see reflected their own fear of actual liberty. We will never, never reach those people because, contrary to what they may claim, they actually fear and hate liberty and view it as dangerous and subversive. This applies to both those on the left and on the right.
DWCarkuff
April 17th, 2010 at 11:01 am
It is clear you do not have a real understanding of the meaning of the word "rights" and why the notion of so called "positive rights" distorts the meaning of the idea of rights or where this distortion ultimately leads.
Lloyd G.
April 17th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Here the establishment fear mongers at the SPLC put Dr. Paul on their enemies list:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publication…
Connestee
April 17th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
You just described the Tea Baggers to a T. Good job.
ifreemantoo
April 17th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
"Real Liberals" (those that have, but legislate to make others pay for their dreams, schemes, wants, desires, cash4bailouts, pleasures etc.) will always be real liberals. Those liberal followers that now or soon will have less or nothing and can see the future will know that whatever government assistance, if any, will not do much or anything at all for them. They will not be so liberal anymore. These liberal followers will also have a hard time justifying legalized murder any longer and their champion has outright lied to them regarding exodus of Iraq and war.
In real simple terms the hard liners of the left and the right wing bird of prey will keep flying as they do. They can KMA. It seems that real people are abandoning this bird of prey politics; seeing the mischief for what it is and getting on board with the politics of truth.
RED_DAVE
April 17th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
It's clear that you and Ron Paul have a notion of rights that let's Paul off the hook for his backwards and disgraceful political positions.
Paul was also against the 1964 Civil Rights Act and was against a woman's right to control her own body with regard to abortion.
Justin Arman
April 17th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
Way to write a paragraph that is completely nonsensical. Can anyone translate?
Mike
April 18th, 2010 at 3:27 am
The thing is that it won't even matter if he's the nominee at all. The more people hear the more people like, it's that simple. The fact is the wars have to stop. The sooner the better. If we can get some support from the anti-war left inside the REAL "tea-party", we can really start to make a difference. We've convinced the idiots of the benefits of fiscal restraint. Now we have to show them the only thing that they can cut that will matter, and that's the "defense" budget.
I have said many times I would rather we shut down the empire and spend all that money on health care for our citizens before another PENNY was spent by a tax payer on health care. Can we agree?
Mike
April 18th, 2010 at 3:31 am
Welcome to the fun :) I was a Democrat my whole life until 2008. Still won't vote for the Republicans in office, though. The economic issues were what first drew me to Dr. Paul, but after hearing him talk about ending the wars I knew I had finally found somebody who agreed with me on both issues, and also things like ending the drug war! Freedom always works!
Mike
April 18th, 2010 at 3:33 am
As I said to somebody above, we've convinced the idiots that fiscal restraint is good. Now we have to show them the ONLY way that fiscal restraint is possible, and that's overseas.
Justin Arman
April 17th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
If the American people's vote actually determined the presidential outcome, maybe Ron Paul would have a chance. Ron Paul, however, would stop the Elite's many centuries plan of World Domination dead in its tracks. Unless Paul sold his soul to the devil, he could never be President.
However, Paul's presidential race is a wonderful tool to disseminate truth to the masses.
Best Regards.
monkeyfat
April 18th, 2010 at 5:07 am
You people are smoking crack if you think Ron Paul has a chance. In New hampshire, they faked votes on the machine cards then stole them. But that doesn't explain all the hysterical people screaming McCain McCain MCCAIN in Ohio. McCain mr. SongBird who gave away secrets, most corrupt evil politician in the country? Mr. Belligerent Act – the president is allowed to put a bag over your head and just make you dissapear? He submitted that bill with a straight face. McCain Mr. WAR WAR WAR? If they can get the monkeys to vote Mccain .. they can do anything. In Ohio they had hand count votes. there was no fakery. the masses really did come out for McCain over ron paul. That should tell you that MOST americans ARE brainwashed and WASHINGTON KNOWS IT.
RED_DAVE
April 18th, 2010 at 11:32 am
I'd still like to know why people think that Ron Paul is some kind of apostle of whatever.
(1) RP opposes a woman's right to abortion;
(2) RP opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act renewal;
(3) RP failed to oppose the repeal of the Glass-Stiegel Act, which led to the current economic crisis;
(4) RP as an elector in 2000, voted for the bogus presidency for George Bush;
(5) RP wants to abolish social security.
Connestee
April 18th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
If you care to add anything useful to this thread, please do.
Connestee
April 18th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. My one experience at a Tea Party rally was a local event in WNC where about 30 people were present. I had reservations about whether it was worth my time to attend because the person who persuaded me to go was a loyal Bush supporter who never complained about spending while he was POTUS. While a few I met were what you could call Libertarian types, most were obviously Republicans with an axe to grind against Obama. I certainly could agree with what they were saying about Obama, but when I pressed the conversations further about the rampant spending under Bush it was like I had raised a taboo subject. It was then that I saw the huge lack of consistency in their ideology and decided no Tea Party for me.
As you pointed out, there are, or at least were, some in the Tea Party movement who made it's existence legitimate, and to those I apologize because in my original post I failed to recognize them.
Justin Raimondo
April 18th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
1) Wrong — RP wants to leave abortion to the states
2) Right — All ibertarians oppose all "civil rights" bills as a violation of the right of free association.
3) Wrong — Glass-Steagal did not lead to the current economic crisis, expanding the money supply did. Boom, then bust. See Mises, Rothbard, et al.
4) Who should he have voted for instead? Just askin' ….
5) Absolutely correct — you got a problem with that?
ScuzzaMan
April 18th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
I'd like to second the notion that "Freedom Always Works" … but this presents a problem for a Ron Paul presidency as a GOP candidate, since the GOP apparently thinks the word freedom means that scary brown superhuman Muslims will murder them all in their beds.
I'd also like to offer a comment/observation on the character of both major political parties in the USA: the Democrats are the party of organic homegrown socialism, while the Republicans are the party of rampant reflexive nationalism. Together they typically command 80% of votes cast.
Nationalism + Socialism: you do the math.
xtrabiggg
April 19th, 2010 at 12:08 am
I worked as a precinct delegate for Ron Paul in 2008. Going door-to-door in my precinct (to registered voters), I found out two things:
1) About 80% of the people had never even HEARD of Ron Paul, or if they had, it was the 'Fringe' and 'nutball' smear being perpetuated in the MSM.
2) when I talked with those people, and gave them literature, about 3/4 of the people found that Ron Paul was actually espousing ideas that they themselves held dear!
I was amazed when, during the primary election, Dr. Paul polled at about 30% in my district, based solely on hs ideas and what limited exposure he managed to sneak through the Media Gauntlet! So it is not surprising (except to insular party hacks and their minions in the MSM) that when Ron Paul's ideas and ideals get more exposure, he himself and his classic American ideals gain further support that only keeps growing and getting stronger. That is evident in the increasingly shrill and personal attacks that are levied at him as his popularity grows. When your opponents have no facts or logic with which to argue, look for the propaganda tactics to start flying!
RED_DAVE
April 19th, 2010 at 2:57 am
(1) Leaving abortion to the states means that in reactionary states women would be deprived of this right, which in turn undermines this right for all women. He's hiding behind states rights, which is a typical right-wing dodge.
(2) Sigh. I've heard this "right of association" BS since the 50s. It's a fig leaf to cover racism. It's a question of values. For the Right, property rights trump civil rights.
(3) The current crisis has its roots in massive speculation based on the removal of curbs on this kind of activity and a genuine loss of oversight. I don't read much Rothbard or Mises. I put them in the same category as Howard Scott and Alfred Lawson as guides to economics.
(4) As an elector, he could have stood up against the stolen election by doing anything other than what he did.
(5) Yeah. As a recipient of social security, small though the amount is, and medicare, weak though it is, I appreciate the defense they give me against the rapaciousness of this country's economic system. You got a problem with that?
RED_DAVE
April 20th, 2010 at 12:00 am
Socialism is a society run democratically (not Democratically) by the working class.
How then can you define the Democratic party as a party of any kind of socialism? Where are you getting your definition?
xtrabiggg
April 20th, 2010 at 12:08 am
Seriously… Wikipedia?!?!?! LOL