The Bomb-Iran Debate From Hell
For Star Trek fans, the news is grim. Some set of maniacs on planet Earth is ready to take all the pleasure out of that low-budget TV show and its ensuing set of big-budget movies. They are actually planning someday to manufacture phasers, ones large enough to vaporize incoming missiles and others small enough to be hand-held and, if not vaporize, then inflict terrible pain. Sooner or later, they expect to beam them down to this planet and set them to work.
Oh, sorry, those aren’t maniacs; they’re the weaponizers at defense giant Raytheon (in conjunction with the U.S. military). As the National, the English-language newspaper of the United Arab Emirates, reported recently, Raytheon is in an arms race with Boeing to produce such weaponry perhaps for the coming decade.
One of the strangest aspects of these last years when two administrations, the U.S. intelligence community, and the American media have focused on, obsessed about, speculated wildly about, and generally chewed over a single potential proliferation story – Iran’s nuclear program – is how little other weapons proliferation stories even qualify as news. I’m excepting, of course, the usual alarums over possible nuclear weapons developments in North Korea, Syria, and the like. And I’m certainly not referring here to the estimated 200 to 400 nuclear weapons in Israel’s undeclared arsenal that hardly rate a peep in our media.
I’m thinking about us. We are, after all, the numero uno weapons proliferator on the planet. I’m thinking about – to pick a few weapons systems almost at random – the U.S. Air Force’s next generation bomber, an advanced “platform” slated for 2018; or the truly futuristic bomber, “a suborbital semi-spacecraft able to move at hypersonic speed along the edge of the atmosphere,” on the drawing boards for 2035. I’m talking about the coming generations of ever more powerful, ever more independent pilot-less drones which the Air Force is now planning out until 2047.
As with the drones today, the story of those Raytheon “phasers,” large and small, if they ever come on line, will be reasonably predictable. Ever since the Soviet Union disappeared in 1991, the world has been experiencing an arms race of one. A single great power, the United States, continues to develop new weapons technology, often for the distant future, that is staggeringly advanced and strikingly destructive (potentially reaching, in some cases, an almost nuclear level of local devastation). It continues to act, that is, as if it were still in an arms race with another threatening superpower. Once our latest wonder weapon is developed, whatever it may be, it is sooner or later sold to allies – after all, we now control almost 70 percent of what’s still dubbed the “global arms trade” – while other states rush to develop their own versions of the same. (Just last week, for instance, Iran proudly unveiled its first “drone bomber.”) Sooner or later, such weaponry will predictably drop down to the level of non-state groups. Just wait for the first “suicide” drone to hit something American, or the first terrorist to unsheathe a “phaser” on some airplane. Then, of course, a drone or phaser proliferation panic will set in, “rogue states” will be threatened for having the nerve to develop such weapons, and we will redouble our anti-drone or anti-phaser research, while our media discusses appropriately aggressive actions that need to be taken ASAP.
Hence, Iran’s present nuclear adventure (which, by the way, began in 1957, thanks to the Eisenhower administration’s Atoms for Peace program). As you read TomDispatch regular Tony Karon’s deconstruction of the present “debate” over whether to bomb Iran back to the pre-nuclear age, take a second to wonder why there is no media debate over whether to bomb the U.S. After all, we are the planet’s foremost weapons proliferator; we have a reputation for using what we produce and parceling it out as well; and, as it happens, we’re still investing money in improvements to our vast nuclear arsenal. Tom
Two Minutes to Midnight?
Cutting through the media’s bogus bomb-Iran debate
by Tony Karon
America’s march to a disastrous war in Iraq began in the media, where an unprovoked U.S. invasion of an Arab country was introduced as a legitimate policy option, then debated as a prudent and necessary one. Now, a similarly flawed media conversation on Iran is gaining momentum.
Last month, Time‘s Joe Klein warned that Obama administration sources had told him bombing Iran’s nuclear facilities was “back on the table.” In an interview with CNN, former CIA director Adm. Mike Hayden next spoke of an “inexorable” dynamic toward confrontation, claiming that bombing was a more viable option for the Obama administration than it had been for George W. Bush. The pièce de résistance in the most recent drum roll of bomb-Iran alerts, however, came from Jeffrey Goldberg in the Atlantic Monthly. A journalist influential in U.S. pro-Israeli circles, he also has access to Israel’s corridors of power. Because sanctions were unlikely to force Iran to back down on its uranium enrichment project, Goldberg invited readers to believe that there was a more than even chance Israel would launch a military strike on the country by next summer.
His piece, which sparked considerable debate in both the blogosphere and the traditional media, was certainly an odd one. After all, despite the dramatics he deployed, including vivid descriptions of the Israeli battle plan, and his tendency to paint Iran as a new Auschwitz, he also made clear that many of his top Israeli sources simply didn’t believe Iran would launch nuclear weapons against Israel, even if it acquired them.
Nonetheless, Goldberg warned, absent an Iranian white flag soon, Israel would indeed launch that war in summer 2011, and it, in turn, was guaranteed to plunge the region into chaos. The message: the Obama administration better do more to confront Iran or Israel will act crazy.
It’s not lost on many of his progressive critics that, when it came to supporting a prospective invasion of Iraq back in 2002, Goldberg proved effective in lobbying liberal America, especially through his reports of “evidence” linking Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. Then and now, he presents himself as an interlocutor who has no point of view. In his most recent Atlantic piece, he professed a “profound, paralyzing ambivalence” on the question of a military strike on Iran and subsequently, in radio interviews, claimed to be “personally opposed” to military action.
His piece, however, conveniently skipped over the obvious inconsistencies in what his Israeli sources were telling him. In addition, he excluded perspectives from Israeli leaders that might have challenged his narrative in which an embattled Jewish state feels it has no alternative but to launch a quixotic military strike. Such an attack, as he presented it, would have limited hope of doing more than briefly setting back the Iranian nuclear program, perhaps at catastrophic cost, and so Israeli leaders would act only because they believe the “goyim” won’t stop another Auschwitz. Or as my friend Paul Woodward, editor of the War in Context Web site, so brilliantly summed up the Israeli message to America: “You must do what we can’t, because if you don’t, we will.”
Goldberg insists that he is merely initiating a debate about how to tackle Iran and that debate is already underway on his terms – that is, like its Iraq War predecessor, based on a fabricated sense of crisis and arbitrary deadlines.
Last Friday, the New York Times reported that the Obama administration had convinced Israel that there was no need to rush on the issue. Should Iran decide to build a nuclear weapon (which it has not done), it would, administration officials pointed out, quickly make its intentions clear by expelling the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors who routinely monitor its nuclear work, and breaking out of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). After that, it would still need another year or more to assemble its first weapon.
In other words, despite Goldberg’s breathless two-minutes-to-midnight schedule, there’s no urgency whatsoever about debating military action against Iran. And then, of course, there’s the question of the very premises of the to-bomb-or-not-to-bomb “debate.” Perhaps, after all these years of obsessive Iran nuclear mania, it’s too much to request a moment of sanity on the issue of Iran and the bomb. If, however, we really have a couple of years to think this over, what about starting by asking three crucial questions, each of which our debaters would prefer to avoid or ignore?
1. Does the U.S. have a right to launch wars of aggression without provocation, in defiance of international law and an international consensus, simply on the basis of its own suspicions about another country’s future intentions?
Or to put it bluntly, as former National Security Council staffers Flint Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett have: Does the U.S. have the right to attack Iran because it is enriching uranium?
The idea that the U.S. has the right to take such a catastrophic step based on the fevered imaginations of Biblically inspired Israeli extremists – Goldberg has previously suggested that Prime Minister Netanyahu believes Iran to be the reincarnation of the Biblical Amalekites, mortal enemies the ancient Hebrews were to smite – or simply to preserve an Israeli monopoly on nuclear force in the Middle East is as bizarre as it is reckless. Even debating the possibility of launching a military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities as a matter of rational policy, absent any Iranian aggression or even solid evidence that the Iranian leadership intends to wage its own version of aggressive war, gives an undeserved respectability to what would otherwise be considered steps beyond the bounds of rational foreign policy discussion.
Perhaps someone in our media hothouse could take just a moment to ask why, outside of the United States and Israel, there is no support – nada, zero, zip – for military action against Iran. In Goldberg’s world, this may be nothing more than the eternal beast of anti-Semitism rearing its ugly head in the form of disdain for the rise of yet another Amalek/Haman/Torquemada/Hitler. A more sober reading of the international situation would, however, suggest that most of the international community simply doesn’t share an alarmist view of what Iran’s nuclear program represents.
Indeed, it is notable that, in Goldberg’s world, Arabs and Iranians never get to speak. The Arabs, we are told, secretly want Israel or the U.S. to bomb Iran’s nuclear facilities out of fear that the acquisition of nuclear weapons would embolden their Persian rivals. They are, so the story goes, just not able to say so in public. Of course, when Arab leaders do publicly express their opposition to the idea of another war being launched in the Middle East, they are ignored in the Goldberg-led debate.
Similarly, their rejection of Washington’s long-held premise that Israel’s special security must be exempted from any discussion of the creation of a nuclear-free Middle East remains outside the bounds of the Iran-debate story. And don’t expect to see any mention of the authoritative University of Maryland annual survey of Arab public opinion either. After all, it recently reported that, contrary to claims of an Arab world cowering under the threat of Iranian nukes, 57 percent of the Arab public actually believe a nuclear-armed Iran would be good for the Middle East!
The idea that Iran’s regime might exist for any purpose other than to destroy Israel is largely ignored as well. Bizarrely enough, Iranians don’t actually feature much in the American “debate” at all (beyond citations of Mad-Mullah-like pronouncements by some Iranian leaders who wish Israel would disappear). The long, nuanced relationship between Israel and the Islamic Republic, as explained by Trita Parsi, author of Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Israel, Iran, and the United States, is simply ignored. So, too, is every indication Iran’s leaders have given that they have no intention of attacking Israel or any other country. In fact, in the Goldberg debate, domestic politics in both the U.S. and Israel is understood as an important factor in future decisions; Iran, with the Green Movement presently suppressed, is considered to have no domestic politics at all, just those Mad Mullahs.
2. Even if Iran were to acquire the means to build a nuclear weapon, would that be a legitimate or prudent reason for launching a war?
If Iran is actually pursuing the capability to build nuclear weapons, its leaders would be doing so in response to a strategic environment in which two of its key adversaries, the U.S. and Israel, and two of its sometime friends/sometime adversaries, Russia and Pakistan, have substantial nuclear arsenals. By all sober accounts, Iran’s security posture is primarily focused on the survival of its regime. Some Israeli military and intelligence officials have been quoted in Israel’s media as saying that Iran’s motivation in seeking a nuclear weapon would be primarily to head off a threat of U.S. intervention aimed at regime change.
Most states do not pursue weapons systems as ends in themselves, and most states are hardwired to prioritize their own survival. It is to that end that they acquire weapons systems – to protect, enhance, or advance their own strategic position, or up the odds against more powerful rivals. In other words, the conflicts that fuel the drive for nuclear weapons are more dangerous than the weapons themselves, and the problem of those weapons can’t be addressed separately from those conflicts.
An Iran that had been bombed to destroy its nuclear power program would likely emerge from the experience far more dangerous to the U.S. and its allies over the decades to come than an Iran that had nuclear weapons within reach. The only way to diminish the danger of an escalating confrontation with Iran is to address the conflict between Tehran and its rivals directly, and seek a modus vivendi that would manage their conflicting interests.
Unfortunately, such a dialogue between Washington and Tehran has scarcely begun, even as, amid alarmist warnings, Goldberg and others insist it must be curtailed so as to avoid the Iranians “playing for time.”
3. Is Iran actually developing nuclear weapons?
No, it is not. That’s the conclusion of the CIA, the IAEA, whose inspectors are inside Iran’s nuclear facilities, and most of the world’s intelligence agencies, including the Israelis. U.S. intelligence believes that Iran is using a civilian nuclear energy program to assemble much of the infrastructure that could, in the future, be used to build a bomb, and that Iran may also be continuing theoretical work on designing such a weapon.
Washington’s spooks and its defense establishment do not, however, believe Iran is currently developing nuclear weapons, nor that its leadership has made the ultimate decision to do so. In fact, the consensus appears to be that Iran will not weaponize nuclear material, but will stop short at “breakout capacity” – the ability, also available, for instance, to Japan, to move relatively quickly to build such a weapon. Currently, as the New York Times reported, the time frame for “breakout,” if all went well (and it might not), would be about a year, after which Iran would have enough fissile material for one bomb. (The Israelis, by comparison, are believed to have 200 to 400 nuclear weapons in their undeclared program, the Pakistanis between 70 and 90, and the United States more than 5,000.) In addition, a credible nuclear deterrent would require the production of not one or two bombs, but a number of them, which would allow for testing.
For ex-CIA Director Hayden, such a breakout capacity would be “as destabilizing as their actually having a weapon.” His is a logical leap that’s hard to sustain, unless you believe that it’s worth launching a war to prevent Iran from, at worst, acquiring a defensive trump card that might prevent it from being attacked.
Iran’s enrichment activities are, of course, a violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions backed by sanctions. Those were imposed to demand that Iran suspend its enrichment program until it satisfied concerns raised by IAEA inspectors over its compliance with the disclosure and transparency requirements of the NPT – especially when it came to aspects of its program which have been developed in secret, raising suspicions over their future use.
Three years before North Korea was in a position to test a nuclear weapon, it had to withdraw from the NPT and kick out IAEA inspectors. Iran remains within the treaty. Even as the standoff over its nuclear program continues, renewed efforts are underway to broker a confidence-building deal to exchange Iranian enriched uranium for fuel rods produced outside the country to power a Tehran reactor that produces medical isotopes.
None of this will be easy, of course. The two main parties are trying to impose their own, mutually exclusive terms on any deal: Washington wants Iran to forgo its treaty-guaranteed right to enrich its own uranium because that also gives it the potential means to produce bomb materiel; Iran has no intention of foregoing that right. Such longstanding pillars of foreign policy sobriety as Senator John Kerry and Colin Powell, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and secretary of state, have publicly deemed the U.S. position untenable.
To suggest that Iran’s present nuclear program represents the security equivalent of a clock ticking down to midnight is calculated hysteria that bears no relation to reality. Ah, says Goldberg, but the point is that the Israelis believe it to be so. Yes, replies former National Security Council Iran analyst Gary Sick, now at Columbia University, but the Israelis and some Americans have been claiming Iran is just a few years away from a nuclear weapon since 1992.
The premises of the debate just initiated by Goldberg’s piece are palpably false. More important, they are remarkably dangerous, since they leap-frog over the three basic questions laid out above and move straight on to arguing the case for war amid visions of annihilation. This campaign of panic is not Goldberg’s invention. It’s been with us for a long time now. Goldberg is just the present vehicle for an American conversation initiated by others, among them those known in the Bush years as neocons, who have long been dreaming of war with Iran and are already, as Juan Cole recently indicated, planning for such a war under a future Republican administration, if not sooner.
Similarly, among Israelis, Prime Minister Netanyahu, in particular, believes that Americans are politically feeble-minded; he said as much to a group of Israeli settlers in a video that surfaced recently: “I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction. They won’t get in [our] way.”
Through Goldberg, the Israeli leader and his aides are seeking to “move America in the right direction” with dark tales of Auschwitz and Amalekites, and of Netanyahu himself as a hostage, in the Freudian sense, to a fierce and unforgiving father who won’t tolerate any show of weakness in the face of perceived threats to the Jews. Goldberg’s sources, including Netanyahu, make it perfectly clear that they don’t believe Iran would attack Israel. Instead, they warn that an Iranian nuclear weapon would embolden Hamas and Hezbollah, although the logic there is flimsy indeed. After all, if Iran would not attack Israel on its own with a nuclear weapon, why would it do so to defend its insurgent allies?
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak has suggested that a nuclear-armed Iran would prompt the best and brightest Israelis to emigrate, because they are clever people who can make a good life for themselves anywhere in the world. Indeed, and they have been doing exactly that for many years now. Some 750,000 Israeli Jews now live abroad – one in every six Israelis – precisely because anti-Semitism is no longer a threat to Jewish life in most of the industrialized world. None of this has anything to do with an Iranian bomb. It has to do with the frustration of Israel’s leadership that 63 percent of the world’s Jews have chosen to live elsewhere.
Despite Goldberg’s panic-inducing prediction, there are plenty of reasons to believe that, for all its bluster and threat, Israel won’t, in fact, bomb Iran next year – or any time soon. But would the Israelis like to see the United States take on their prime regional enemy? You bet they would. Indeed, Netanyahu continually insists that the U.S. has an obligation to take the lead in confronting Iran.
It’s patently clear in Goldberg’s piece that the Israelis are trying to create a climate in which the U.S. is pressed onto the path of escalation, adding more and more sanctions, and keeping “all options on the table” in case those don’t work.
In an excellent commentary that dismantles the logic of Goldberg’s argument, David Kay – the American who served as an UNSCOM arms inspector in search of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after the U.S. invasion – suggests that:
“Israel is engaged in psychological warfare with the Obama administration – and it only partly concerns Iran. … [B]eyond Iran, of probably greater importance to the current Israeli government is avoiding the Obama administration pushing it into a choice between settlements and territorial arrangements with the Palestinians that it is unwilling to make and permanent damage to its relationship with the U.S. Hyping the Iranian nuclear program and the need for early military action is a nice bargaining counter … if the U.S. wants to avoid an imminent Israeli strike, it must make concessions to Israel on the Palestinian issues.”
Creating a sense of crisis on the Iran front, narrowing U.S. options in the public mind, and precluding a real discussion of U.S. policy towards Iran may serve multiple purposes for various interested groups. Taken together, however, they reduce all discussion to one issue: when to exercise that military option kept “on the table,” given the unlikeliness of an Iranian surrender. The debate’s ultimate purpose is to plant in the public mind the idea that a march to war with Iran, as Adm. Hayden put it on CNN, “seems inexorable, doesn’t it?”
Inexorable – only if the media allows itself to be fooled twice.
Tony Karon is a senior editor at Time.com, where he analyzes Middle Eastern and other conflicts. He also blogs on his own Web site, Rootless Cosmopolitan.
Copyright 2010 Tony Karon
Read more by Tom Engelhardt
- Who’s Profitting From America’s Empire of Bases? – May 15th, 2013
- Israel, Iran, and the Nuclear Freight Train – May 12th, 2013
- If the Government Does It, It’s Legal – May 9th, 2013
- Filling the Empty Battlefield – April 23rd, 2013
- Shell Shock Lite – April 16th, 2013





epppie
August 24th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Yet another vomitous outpouring from the pseudo-antiwar Alternapundit Empire. You could not have had a more decisive moment than the one Obama had in May, three short months ago, in which – after a year of relentless Obamian warmongering against Iran that was breezily labeled "engagement" – Turkey and Brazil came to Obama and said "hey, guess what? We went and did some 'engagement' with Iran, and it really wasn't that hard after all! All we had to do was actually listen to their concerns, do some workouts, and VOILA, we had a deal!" Obama's response to that Peace Moment was to spit in the faces of Iran, Brazil and Turkey, while moving quickly to ratchet up his economic war against Iran (and yes, children, as we learned from Bill Clinton vs. Iraq, economic war really is war).
Ever since then, the Alternapunditocracy has gone into overdrive to portray Obama as the Great Peacemaker, suggesting that if only it weren't for the hardliners in Israel and in the US Warparty, roses would be falling from the sky and every toilet would have its own rainbow. That's a lie and they know it.
Obama is the one who has set the table for war. It's true that the neocons, etc., are the ones putting the cake on the plate, at this point, which is so nice for Obama, because he gets to turn around, and, acting all surprised, he gets to coyly say 'well, gee, I shouldn't … after all, I AM trying to diet (wiping crumbs of his lips as he says this) … but gee, it DOES look sooooo good … well, maybe just a small piece wouldn't be so bad ….. OOOOPSS!!! well goodness, that turned into half the cake!, but it DOES look good… and one can't waste it, after all…"
epppie
August 24th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
And so Obama gets to run backwards into war, ushered all the way by his dutiful alternapundits, all singing the praise of the Secret Peacemaker. I found this paragraph from Karon to be fairly typical of his approach, so sweetly sychophantic towards the Great Secret Peacemaker …
"Unfortunately, such a dialogue between Washington and Tehran has scarcely begun, even as, amid alarmist warnings, Goldberg and others insist it must be curtailed so as to avoid the Iranians “playing for time.”"
How delicately Karon implies that even though Obama's track record (it HAS been a year and a half after all) doesn't look good, in terms of peace, that's all about to change! Yes the Secret Peacemaker is unveiling himself as we speak, magically producing doves and sequined scarves from underneath his menacing war armor! And who comes along at this delicate moment of bashful lovemaking? Why it's those nasty neocons! And those Israeli hardliners! Why, they just ruin every party, don't they?
Yeah, the neocons and Israeli hardliners do stink up the place, for sure, but they are banging at the same drum that Obama has been banging at. But sure, why not continue to hope that Obama changes his tune. That's easier than recognizing our obligation to oppose his warmongering, isn't it? Let him finally show his Secret Peacey-Changiness. After all, he could have peace in two weeks if he did that. All Iran wants is for the US and Israel to stop threatening it and stop making demands the US and Israel have no right to make. There's a peace deal there just waiting to be made. As for the Palestinians, all they want is for Israel to stop trying to steal chunks of the West Bank. There too a peace deal is just waiting to be made.
And that's what this is really all about, isn't it? No matter what party is in power, the way to peace must be depicted as horribly complicated and difficult, because in fact, it's all quite straightforward, as most people would quickly realize if the constant shouting would stop. As Juan Cole neatly seems to point out, though he doesn't seem to mean it this way, the conflict carries on whichever party is in power, with the help of all the Good Cop Bad Cop theatrics both wings of the War Party and its attendant pundits (of the neocon and alternapundit variety, and some other strains too) can muster. In the end, the Empire lurches forward.
Claus Eric Hamle
August 24th, 2010 at 11:20 pm
Fidel Castro warned that come September the US has the right to inspect Iranian ships according to the recent UN sanctions resolution. How on earth did the war party get that into the text. And Russia and China accepted because they want the US to go hang themselves and go bankrupt. Castro predicted that the Iranian response to inspection will be war, they will sink the entire US fleet in the Persian Gulf and close the Strait of Hormuz. Then the US will go mad, said Castro, and use nuclear weapons. Obama is an insane war criminal already, killing lots of kids and old people with drones. They are right: The US IS The Great Satan – Fallujah worse than Hiroshima because of depleted uranium. The Nazis were nice people compared to The Great Satan.
epppie
August 24th, 2010 at 11:28 pm
Here are a couple more special moments from our subtle alternapundit. Note how this passage …
"Iran’s enrichment activities are, of course, a violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions backed by sanctions. Those were imposed to demand that Iran suspend its enrichment program until it satisfied concerns raised by IAEA inspectors over its compliance with the disclosure and transparency requirements of the NPT – especially when it came to aspects of its program which have been developed in secret, raising suspicions over their future use."
… gently glides over some key issues. One is that concerns over Iran's nuclear program were not raised by IAEA inspectors, and they had to do with issues themselves very much in dispute, at best. What's more, such issues were raised by parties to the dispute (in particular, the US, of course). Reading the UN charter shows plainly that the UN Security Council is called upon to address disputes between parties with BOTH parties' involvement, NOT onesidedly, and what's more, that an involved party (such as the US) SHOULD NOT VOTE. What's more, any attempt at resolution, it is strongly implied in the UN charter, should seek to use all forms of resolution short of force, should not aggravate the situation, and should "be without prejudice to the rights, claims, or position of the parties concerned. "
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter7.s…
In these and in other ways, the sanctions drive against Iran has flagrantly and repeatedly broken both the letter and the spirit of the UN Charter, yet hardly anyone seems to think this monstrous attack on international law and on hopes for human peace. led by the US, are worthy of any note. Basically, the UN Security Council is being used, by Obama, as by his predecessors, not to prevent war, but to MAKE WAR.
But no, the alternapundit suggests, it is Iran that is the scofflaw here. All that is in question, he implies, is how mean we ought to be to that scofflaw. Obama wants to be a gentle taskmaster to Iran, we are to believe. No doubt, Iran is in the wrong, but what they need is a good hard spanking. For now. The bombs can wait. Maybe.
We see a similar perspective applied elsewhere in the article, where Karon appears to argue against the neocons and hardline Israelies …
"Goldberg’s sources, including Netanyahu, make it perfectly clear that they don’t believe Iran would attack Israel. Instead, they warn that an Iranian nuclear weapon would embolden Hamas and Hezbollah, although the logic there is flimsy indeed. After all, if Iran would not attack Israel on its own with a nuclear weapon, why would it do so to defend its insurgent allies?"
But did you catch that word? "Insurgent"? That's the key word, because if Hamas and Hezbollah are insurgents …
" a person who revolts against civil authority or an established government; especially : a rebel not recognized as a belligerent" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insurge…
… then Israel's case against Iran (as a supporter of Hezbollah and Hamas) is fundamentally right in important ways, and here again the only real difference that matters, between hardliners and Secret Peacemakers, is about how hard to lean on Iran. But Israel is NOT the legitimate government in either Lebanon or Palestine. One can argue whether Hezbollah and Hamas are more properly termed terrorists or freedom fighters, but one CANNOT call them insurgents. In fact, they have far more claim to legitimacy in their areas, having been elected, than Israel has.
So, basically, the fundamental issues that Karon claims to raise are not so fundamental. It would be more accurate to say that he avoids more fundamental issues of the US-Iran conflict, such as whether there needs to be any conflict at all, in order to focus on the question of whether we ought to select War Lite, or War Heavy in response to the seemingly inevitable conflict. This seems exemplify what looks more and more like a replay of the mindgames played by the political elite as Clinton fought War Lite against Iraq, paving the way for Bush's War Heavy. Karon seems to play his part in the march towards 'inexorable' war, while pretending not to.
ghouri
August 25th, 2010 at 4:10 am
Iran can,t be bomed and if will have very bad effects as the Iranians are working with US and israel and rest is drama. These dramas need americans as well as Iran to continue their policies against mankind. For me dead is dead who dies is not interesting for me.
For me interesting is that ppp has committed war crimes to allow drone attacks in Pakistan. Americans are habitual to kill this is their history.
vito
August 25th, 2010 at 5:49 am
There must be an ominous prophesy that has gone unnoticed that tells of Netanyahu.
UNF
August 25th, 2010 at 9:17 am
The outstanding 3-part analysis by epppie in comments above is worth re-reading and 100% accurate in ripping the veil of collusion from antiwar fakers such as T.Karon. This type of warmonger is quite subtle and aims to subvert the antiwar market segment with deep-seated political propaganda which tends to gradually justify the past and future warcrimes of his paymasters. Functionally, he is fully aligned with Fox News in pushing U$-Imperial agitprop, but the method is refined and thus more dangerous.
Epppie, please make exemplary public dissection of T.Karon a regular feature!
MoT
August 25th, 2010 at 10:09 am
The Turkish/Brazilian engagement with Iran was a master stroke and the dumb look followed by the elephant roars of Uncle Sam were simply priceless. It also proved what a bunch of duplicitous lying bastards inhabit the White House and its other tentacles…. i.e. the "Media".
MoT
August 25th, 2010 at 10:14 am
eppie, you only have to look at some of the last words written.
"…..only if the media allows itself to be fooled twice."
What the hell?! Fooled twice? What planet is this guy from? My god…. they practically dance to DC's tune each and every time. And Goldberg is a lying swine so anything that vomits out of his pie hole should be taken for what it is.
Augustus
August 25th, 2010 at 10:32 am
"All Iran wants is for the US and Israel to stop threatening it and stop making demands the US and Israel have no right to make. There's a peace deal there just waiting to be made."
So that's "all Iran wants", is it? Funny how just one completely self-serving, idiotic assumption like that can torpedo your entire "analysis". But wait, I think I found another one:
"As for the Palestinians, all they want is for Israel to stop trying to steal chunks of the West Bank. There too a peace deal is just waiting to be made."
Really? So Hamas and their Iranian sponsors would simply lay down their arms if Israel retreats to whatever borders they demand? Once again, a totally ridiculous assumption on your part. You completely ignore the existence of hardcore enemies of Israel (Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc) who will never tolerate the existence of an Israeli state in any form, with any borders. Your "analysis" is therefore a laughable flight of fancy, an utterly self-serving rant. Lay off the drugs.
Augustus
August 25th, 2010 at 10:49 am
"The outstanding 3-part analysis by epppie"
It would be more "outstanding" if it weren't riddled with laughable, self-serving assumptions suggesting that the caliphate-seeking Hamas fanatics and the 8th century nutjob mullahs who back them (not to mention other rabid extremists like Hezbollah) are just itching to sign a peace deal with Israel, if only the latter were slightly more denuded.
Eddie
August 25th, 2010 at 11:43 am
Very good article.
Re the last quote by David Kay….. “Israel is engaged in psychological warfare with the Obama administration – and it only partly concerns Iran. … [B]eyond Iran, of probably greater importance to the current Israeli government is avoiding the Obama administration pushing it into a choice between settlements and territorial arrangements with the Palestinians that it is unwilling to make and permanent damage to its relationship with the U.S. Hyping the Iranian nuclear program and the need for early military action is a nice bargaining counter … if the U.S. wants to avoid an imminent Israeli strike, it must make concessions to Israel on the Palestinian issues.”
How come you don't get comments like that on the BBC…?
greg
August 25th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
As far as I'm concerned the US is an insane asylum and Israel is a land of rabid wolverines. All else is euphamism.
UNF
August 25th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
apparently it is a doctrine of your ignorant belief-system that there can never be peace with Israel's chosen enemies — how convenient is that for an amateur warmonger? Tell me, what happens to the Zionist system of military and political parasitism as the U$-Empire implodes into bankruptcy? Which other nation could possibly be stupid enough to bleed out the ass to maintain the impunity of Israel? FYI, there is none. Who's laughing now, hasbarazi goon? ";0))
Augustus
August 25th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
"there can never be peace with Israel's chosen enemies"
"Chosen" enemies? Never heard THAT one before. Israel didn't consciously "choose" its enemies. Israel didn't invent radical Islam. Israel didn't write the Koran. Israel's enemies came up with the caliphate idea all by their lonesome. The Israelis don't want to go gentle into that good night, as you wish them to, and that's why they have implacable enemies. The ignoramus here is YOU, who apparently is the last to know about how UNCOMPROMISING the hardline Islamist position truly is.
Nasrallah, Meshal, Ahmadinejad, Khamenei. Which of these sweethearts can Israel make peace with, genius? Are you on the same planet as everyone else?
drewhause
August 26th, 2010 at 1:37 am
Why don't we just bomb the hell out of them?
Charles
UNF
August 26th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
… because your fat head is in the way. Should we bomb it first?
UNF
August 26th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
With which of these can Israel make peace? All of them, obviously. Where there's a will, there's a way.
The major problem of zionism is, of course, that there is no will to seek justice or peace, just theft, domination, aggression and war. In this, it is a true reflection of its U$-Imperial sponsor, for whom the 'enemies-list' is longer than the number of nations on planet Earth, plus all the inhabitants. However, this morally, fiscally and intellectually bankrupt system is on the way down and out, which process can only be accelerated by further criminal military outrages (e.g. attack on Iran).
The more intelligent U$an analysts see the futility of this path to self-assured-destruction and urge reform before the final implosion, but their feeble efforts, if any, to translate this into an economic model still capable to satiate the voracious greedy lusts of the deranged vested interests atop the current system, are invariably a patent failure. These 'radical' poseurs lack the guts to admit the practical impossibility of meaningful reform (pretending lipstick on a pig is not still a boar) or suggest the only logical alternative — replacement of the political model, i.e. Revolution — and thus remain relatively unsupported by both the rulers and the ruled. Generally, they presume the impossibility of Revolution and act as subtle foils to check its intellectual advancement.
However, as socioeconomic conditions on the HomeLander Front continue to deteriorate, the working class will face the stark choice between a whole-hearted struggle for political independence or capitulation and sinking with the imperial ship.
I work for and encourage the former choice.
The problem of Israel will naturally resolve itself once U$-Empire is broke and out of the way. Zionist leaders will sue for reasonable peace terms, which are essentially already available. All the propaganda blah-blah sprayed is irrelevant to this process.