‘South of the Border’ Reconsidered
Justin Raimondo’s latest column, "South of the Border," has stirred controversy with its apparent advocacy of stricter U.S. border controls as a response to the drug-related violence terrorizing the American Southwest. While Antiwar.com has traditionally stuck to issues of foreign policy, immigration is a more than tangentially related matter, and the severity of the recent gang warfare and its prominence in the press prompted Raimondo to present his analysis of the problem and his favored response.
But there is another view, one more in line with Antiwar.com’s commitment to non-interventionism and opposition to militarism. While Raimondo is correct about the intolerable barbarity and increasing urgency of the border crisis, he appears to have ignored the root cause of this calamity. This has led him to advance a political solution that neglects the underlying, endemic problem of U.S. meddling in Latin America.
Describing the drug cartels’ actions as "terrorism," Raimondo fails to mention that as truly horrific as this violence is, it is a logical, inexorable consequence of U.S. government actions. Like 9/11, the border warfare is blowback – in this case, blowback from U.S. drug policy, particularly Washington’s relentless strong-arming of its southern neighbor to serve as a satellite in America’s War on Drugs.
Mexico’s leaders may be as thoroughly corrupt as Raimondo says, but this has not stopped American politicians from insisting that the Mexican government crack skulls in its own country in a quixotic effort to stop Americans from using substances our federal government declares verboten. As any economist can tell you, the prohibition of drugs creates black-market violence. Alcohol prohibition produced Al Capone, Reagan’s crusade against drugs (crack cocaine, in particular) intensified gang violence on America’s streets, and the internationalization of such policies has led to international crises.
Raimondo praises Vicente Fox for having signaled a possible brake on Mexico’s corruption, but notably, when Fox planned to sign a bill liberalizing drug laws in Mexico, the Bush administration pressured him into vetoing it. This bullying of Mexico’s government to make it exercise even more force against the drug trade than it wants to is nothing new. President Obama has exacerbated the crisis by supplying the Mexican regime with over a billion dollars’ worth of aid designated for the drug war, including five helicopters and other military hardware. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has boasted of the new plan "strengthening institutions, creating a 21st-century border, and building strong, resilient communities." Talk about nation-building!
Of course, the War on Drugs has been a U.S. foreign policy issue for many years, and, as with similar issues, Republicans and Democrats have competed with one another to show how tough they can be. Combining anti-drug hysteria with xenophobia has become a perennial winner in American domestic politics, but the cost in ruined lives has been high, especially for foreigners. In 1988, Democratic presidential candidate Michael Dukakis chided Republican George H.W. Bush for being soft on Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega. In a dress rehearsal for Operation Desert Storm, the Bush administration invaded Panama in 1989 in the name of combating drug trafficking and regime change. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Panamanian civilians were killed in Operation Just Cause. In the 1990s, President Bill Clinton initiated Plan Colombia, which has involved the chemical destruction of peasants’ crops in order to wipe out cocaine. On the other side of the world, the Taliban was getting U.S. aid to stamp out opium. This all continued into the George W. Bush administration, which upped the ante with its enthusiastic support of Thailand’s murderous drug policies. Today, we see the tragic irony of the Taliban, once sponsored by Washington to combat opium, thriving on its production. No one should be surprised when the governments we finance to fight drugs also cozy up to big-time drug dealers: this alliance between drug cop and drug supplier can be seen in American domestic law enforcement, and the more corrupt the regime, the more likely it is to play both sides.
Antiwar and anti-interventionist Americans can disagree on domestic drug policy, but they should agree on its international counterpart. Americans’ thirst for illegal drugs cannot be properly addressed through the U.S. imposing its hard-line "Just Say No" policies on other nations. The consequences have been disastrous for millions of foreigners, and now Americans are starting to see the price of this imperialism at home.
If America were to legalize drugs or even allow Mexico more leeway on the issue, this aspect of the border problem would quickly subside. The atmosphere surrounding the trade is violent precisely because prohibition has created exorbitant profits available only to those willing to flout the law and use brutal methods. The repeal of alcohol prohibition destroyed the monopoly organized crime had on the liquor business; we could expect similar results with the drug cartels following legalization. That is a politically incorrect proposal, but as with the blowback of 9/11, the root cause must be addressed if we are to avoid a worsening spiral of violence and government repression.
Similar dynamics are at work with immigration. Raimondo discusses how inhumanely illegal immigrants are treated by drug cartels, but none of this would be possible if not for the drug laws and the immigration laws. As Ludwig von Mises pointed out with respect to the economy, every government intervention inevitably creates problems that lead to calls for more intervention. Antiwar.com has heroically applied this same insight to foreign policy. But it is also at play in the intersection of the war on illegal immigrants and the War on Drugs. Raimondo correctly points out to progressives that a European social welfare system typically entails a "Your papers, please" immigration policy, and he is properly opposed to both. But a loss of civil liberties is inherent in any comprehensive immigration control policy, as Europe also demonstrates.
Although Raimondo says "securing and protecting our borders" is the federal government’s "one-and-only legitimate function," it is unclear where this authority comes from. The Constitution does empower Congress to regulate naturalization and citizenship, but not immigration per se. If we choose to approach the issue as an "invasion," as some conservatives propose, then we are back to the militaristic siege mentality that breeds all the domestic horrors of war – surveillance of citizens, violations of economic liberty and freedom of association, suspensions of habeas corpus, erosions of due process, and all the rest.
Given the federal government’s bloody record abroad and countless failures at home, as documented daily on this Web site, Antiwar.com’s readers should shudder at the thought of what the federal government would do to "make the border airtight," as Raimondo recommends. It is an impossible feat, of course, and attempting to achieve it could wipe out the last of our domestic liberties and erase any remaining line, however blurry, between the police and the military.
Bringing U.S. troops home from abroad and stationing them throughout the American Southwest is a frightening prospect for Americans living there, many of whom are already harassed regularly, many miles from the border, just for the shade of their skin. Raimondo scoffs at the idea that sealing the border would result in a "police state," but we have already seen one begin to develop in the name of stopping terrorism, immigration, and drugs. Although the threat of terrorists sneaking into the country is real and the atrocities on the border are terrible, further militarization of domestic law enforcement will not solve this government-created crisis any more than an increasingly aggressive foreign policy has solved the government-created crisis of international terrorism. There will always be a way for al-Qaeda or drug lords to circumvent the draconian measures that, in truth, hurt innocent people more than they inconvenience the villains.
By framing the drug and immigration issues as national security problems, we open the door to ever more depredations against life and liberty. There is no reason to encourage the U.S. government to tighten its stranglehold over any aspect of our lives, or to enhance its power in any way, in order to quash a catastrophe of its own making. If Americans are uncomfortable with liberalizing Washington’s drug policies and immigration controls, then they should recognize that the horrors on the Mexican border are the price they have chosen to pay (and make others pay). But giving more power to the U.S. government cannot possibly be the solution. As we see with terrorist blowback, our runaway national debt, and now the border crisis, the "biggest single threat to our national security" is not, as Raimondo writes, the 6 million people who have crossed our unenforceable border without asking the government’s permission. The true threat is Washington, D.C., and giving it another excuse to flex its muscles would be a disaster.
The above article is endorsed by the following Antiwar.com staff members:
Michael Austin
Matt Barganier
Jason Ditz
Michael Ewens
Eric Garris
Malcolm Garris
Alexia Gilmore
Margaret Griffis
David Henderson (columnist)
Scott Horton
Angela Keaton
Thomas Knapp
Jeremy Sapienza
Read more by Anthony Gregory
- Understanding the US Torture State – October 27th, 2011
- How an Empire Defines Victory – September 11th, 2011
- On War, Obama Has Been Worse Than Bush – August 25th, 2011
- Rick Santorum Targets Iran – August 12th, 2011
- Illusions of Security and Danger – July 25th, 2011





john
April 29th, 2010 at 4:40 am
We are having home invasions in Carson City, Nevada. Where does all this shit end? Do we form militias? Do we just sit on our fart box and do nothing. I have a Remington 870 Express "3 inch mag) and double aught ammo. This is complimented by an array of semi-automatic weapons. Am I paranoid? Illegals are bankrupting the United States and if ilegal immigration is not nipped in the bud we are going to take it in the shorts.
My parents had to jump through all the hoops to immigrate to this country. These assholes can do the same. Until that time it is adios amigos and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Tom Mauel, WI
April 29th, 2010 at 5:10 am
I would add the failure of NAFTA. An agreement that was neither free nor fair to impoverished Mexican farmers who lost the economic stability provided by the corn subsidy forcing many no other choice but to go north.
Karl
April 29th, 2010 at 5:14 am
Good piece. Obviously Europeans should drop both the welfare state and the obsession with IDs. One doesn't justify the other. They are both wrong.
Mark W. Stroberg
April 29th, 2010 at 5:24 am
A breath of fresh air! How did you guys get Justin to allow this to be published?
Mark W. Stroberg
April 29th, 2010 at 5:24 am
A breath of fresh air! How did you guys get Justin to allow this to be published?
uberVU - social comments
April 28th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by wendy712: Eric Garris & Anthony Gregory respond to J.Raimondo’s “South of the Border,” receive endorsement of @Antiwarcom staff http://bit.ly/a3odVS...
Justin Raimondo
April 29th, 2010 at 5:52 am
I'm sorry, but I just can't take this article very seriously.
To say that the US government should not be defending America's borders is absurd. This isn't anti-interventionism, or even libertarianism — it's just sheer nonsense.
The legalization of drugs — which, by the way, is not going to happen, at least not in our lifetimes –will not eliminate the criminal organizations preying on the people of Arizona. The Mafia, which profited from alcohol prohibtion, still exists, just as the Mexican version will continue to exist in the unlikely event all drugs are legalized. And to tell Arizonans they must await the legalization of drugs before they are to be given a respite from the crime wave sweeping their state is laughable. If law enforcement in Arizona cannot even question people who are apparently here illegally, and the US government is not permitted to defend its own borders, then what would the authors of this article say to the people of Arizona — roll over and die?
Justin Raimondo
April 29th, 2010 at 5:52 am
Furthermore, the idea that America is responsible for the existence of the Mexican drug cartels is downright nutty. The last time I looked, drugs were illegal in Mexico — and throughout the world.
The drug legalization issue is a red herring: this is a matter of national sovereignty. We have borders: they must be defended. That is a proposition 99.9% of anti-interventionists, and most libertarians, would agree with. My stance is no different from that of Ron Paul. See here:
http://www.ontheissues.org/tx/Ron_Paul_Immigratio…
So my column was "controversial" nowhere except in the minds of the authors of this piece.
Justin Raimondo
April 29th, 2010 at 5:52 am
Furthermore, the idea that America is responsible for the existence of the Mexican drug cartels is downright nutty. The last time I looked, drugs were illegal in Mexico — and throughout the world.
The drug legalization issue is a red herring: this is a matter of national sovereignty. We have borders: they must be defended. That is a proposition 99.9% of anti-interventionists, and most libertarians, would agree with. My stance is no different from that of Ron Paul. See here:
http://www.ontheissues.org/tx/Ron_Paul_Immigratio…
So my column was "controversial" nowhere except in the minds of the authors of this piece.
Tony Abdo
April 29th, 2010 at 6:15 am
'The drug legalization issue is a red herring: this is a matter of national sovereignty. We have borders: they must be defended.'
Calm down, Justin. Nobody is attacking our borders? Thanks for trying to defend them though, though you seem to not find the time to defend the individual rights of those who do need work to feed their families. It seems that you are a USA First sort of guy and to Hell with the kids that depend on their dads going off way far away to the US to get the money to do just that. Hell, let them eat cake! 'Our' Borders are sacrosanct and the human right to have a way to earn a living is secondary!
It really boggles my mind that you, Justin, think that Mexican laborers coming to work the fields, construction sites, and janitorial jobs are akin to the Evil Red menace??? Invaders of the Fatherland that you must defend your Patria from… What gives? Where did you get this high level of paranoia from?
tz1
April 29th, 2010 at 6:28 am
A rash article deserves better than a rash response.
Perhaps we are directly responsible for what is happening on our southern border at the end of april, 2010, but even if everything you listed stopped tomorrow, Mexico would not turn into a shining example of liberty by Cinco de Mayo. We may have created a frankenstein monster south of the border, but the monster will not become less dangerous just because we cease our provocations. It has momentum. And it is easier to create a failed state than to reinstate any form of the rule of law.
After 9/11, at least there were some even here who said that it was a CRIMINAL act and those who committed the crime needed to be apprehended and punished. We failed in even that. The litany of evils done to the muslim and arab world was not seen as an excuse for their actions or to just sit and take it. It was "both-and". Reforms to stop the blow-back, but also seeking justice (not vengance) for the act of terrorism.
Now it would seem that all you above signatories say we must let anyone in who crosses the southern border. A terrorist from Yemen, a mexican drug bandido with his kidnap victims in tow, any robbers and rapists along with anyone who might just be a tourist or job seeker. These people are there, and the problem is they are already crossing the border. You would not have immigration even be selective since you can't figure out who might have the authority to enforce it.
I don't mean to keep defending Justin since his article has some things I disagree with, but I consider bad arguments for something to be arguments against It. He wants to dissolve the entire military, the warfare state, all the bases, all the contractors and defense companies and reduce everything both military and criminal to just what is required to seal the border during the present emergency and you accuse him of wanting a larger and more intrusive government? You've been watching the Neo-cons too long so are starting to think – or fail to think – in the manner they do. Everyone is either a friend or an enemy. The arguments don't matter. The facts don't matter. The points raised are ignore. And truth stays a casualty.
"The true threat to our national security…". You ignore Raimondo's horror stories about what a few of those people are doing.
Washington is a threat to the few remaining shreds of liberty but not security. You should be ashamed of yourselves for getting the two concepts confused. The USSR was secure, but not free. If the economy collapses more – people are losing their homes but not their lives – they will not be subject to barbaric mobs attempting to rob, rape, and murder them, that is unless they live in Phoenix.
Although you ought not give up any liberty for security, you cannot truly be free without being secure. And if your idea of freedom is merely the choice of either becoming a victim or walking around armed and suspicious, ready to shoot anyone like any of our troops, you have lost your soul.
tz1
April 29th, 2010 at 6:29 am
(
Many have talked about the rule of law on other occasions. And how what we are doing constantly violates it. But for there to be law, there has to be a body of rules, and people to judge violations, and people to enforce it. Everyone cannot make up their own rules (Which even hypocritical pro-lifers know when it comes to Dr.continued) Tiller's assassin). Government must obey its own laws, and apply only the law equally and fairly. But what is flooding over the border is lawlessness itself. Perhaps some Cops are corrupt and criminal, but if you were the one in the rape and torture room Raimondo describes? Maybe our solders were turned into monsters to do things at Abu Gharib, but if you can call such people evil and want to stop them, why do you want them overrunning into our country.
Many of you are NOT in Arizona. It is becoming a slower and different version of New Orleans after Katrina. You aren't saying you want to move there although the government seems to be far less effective there, so it should be close to your idea of paradise. So go there and be at the mercy or protect yourself from the drug cartels. (I also mused long ago when Somalia had no government that all the libertarians weren't flocking there – is the internet and running clean water more important than liberty?).
It only takes one side to declare and initiate war or violence. And we have a 4th generation, low level war on our southern border. I would like to stop this war because I, like I hope all here are "anti-war". The same euphemism shell game goes on – when armed people cross a border to do violence and vandalism it is war. We are not "nation building" or merely "occupying" in Iraq, we are at war. Sanctions are an act of war. But what Mexico is doing to us is "war" even though you might want to put a different label on it. It doesn't matter if you don't want it to be happening, or that it is blowback for our stupidity. And I don't see the drug cartels responding to people singing kumbayah.
We should work to end the war and create peace across the border again. Sometimes neighbors are only going to be at peace with a fence. Sometimes with talk. Sometimes when they realize that fighting each other only results in a painful stalemate. Or when one or the other side wins. But then the war is over.
I would think those here would have been the first to identify the de-facto war and to be anti-war in this too in finding the best way to obtain peace. Not to get distracted in quarrels about other situations, historical grievances (Neither the official gevernment nor the cartels are saying they will end the war if we stop with the drug policies), abstract and complex thoughts about utopian libertarian governments.
So how can we end this war with the least number of dead people and least destroyed wealth?
JPA
April 29th, 2010 at 6:39 am
Right on, Justin! Drugs aren't the only reason we are being inundated with illegal aliens!
Ryan
April 29th, 2010 at 6:59 am
"It really boggles my mind that you, Justin, think that Mexican laborers coming to work the fields, construction sites, and janitorial jobs are akin to the Evil Red menace???"
I can't speak for Justin, but I can for myself. Hard experience from formerly having a good job in construction. I have seen my benefits disappear, safety standards decline and my wages held down due to a surplus of illegal alien labor. And there is this. It makes it hard to get something done when you and one other person are the only two who speak English on the job.
Of course I don't blame the illegals for all of this. I blame the people who employ illegals. There is more to a country than simply an economic zone and I have no desire to live in a third world country courtesy of the globalists. I am glad Arizona passed this law.
One day they'll find a way to either replace you or more likely, find a way to remove your livelihoodand you will come to understand this simple fact.
Good column, Justin. You are correct.
Colin Patrick Barth
April 29th, 2010 at 7:02 am
Is the standard now to be the ideal "elimination" of crime, rather than its substantial improvement? If the mafia had continued to have the power of the Al Capones of prohibition afterwards, your response would have factual merit. In actual history, the mob lost a great deal of its power and money from prohibition ending. You might as well claim that the drug war had little to do with enriching the Colombian cartels. Besides, calling for the world's most grandiose "gang" to have more power in order to control the little ones is unworthy of a Rothbardian.
Colin Patrick Barth
April 29th, 2010 at 7:02 am
Is the standard now to be the ideal "elimination" of crime, rather than its substantial improvement? If the mafia had continued to have the power of the Al Capones of prohibition afterwards, your response would have factual merit. In actual history, the mob lost a great deal of its power and money from prohibition ending. You might as well claim that the drug war had little to do with enriching the Colombian cartels. Besides, calling for the world's most grandiose "gang" to have more power in order to control the little ones is unworthy of a Rothbardian.
Colin Patrick Barth
April 29th, 2010 at 7:16 am
Thank you very much, Anthony and Eric, and signatories. Bravo. This is a superb response, which does a great deal to restore my confidence in the antiwar.com staff. As I said in my letter to the editor (fired off before this), regardless of disagreement with Justin on this issue, it's not only divisive but off-topic for the site, and needlessly distracting. I believe in free speech in the radical sense, and profiting from exposure to contrary views. But he should have published this one elsewhere for the sake of the necessarily somewhat single-minded mission of the site, which must endeavor to forge antiwar alliances across the spectrum, not divide supporters by bringing up tangents (rhetorical "invasions" notwithstanding), and push personal opinions which, formerly, Justin usually did a sensible job of presenting as his own brief asides (on, say, fiscal policy) rather than the focus of an article. I recommend antiwar.com constantly, and I exhort others to give during fundraising, and articles like Justin's make it harder for me to do so. Thanks again.
Colin Patrick Barth
April 29th, 2010 at 7:34 am
"The legalization of drugs — which, by the way, is not going to happen, at least not in our lifetimes"
Certainly, it's looking a great deal more likely than retracting American imperialism. Yet you write your potentially-quixotic articles, calling for just that, on a regular basis—as you should. Some things are easy, others must be done. You have attacked imperial policy year after year, though it shows fewer signs of vulnerability than the drug war, as though you might just conceivably break through, and because the cause is just. Given that, don't you think that your sudden pragmatistic dismissal of a principle here seems a bizarre turn?
epppie
April 29th, 2010 at 7:35 am
We destroyed the economy of Mexico. Drug trade is one of the major industries left. Justin is dead wrong on this one. Also, the drug war in mexico was started by Calderone to try to establish his right to rule after the election against Obrador, which Calderone probably stole. It was much like Bush's war on terror. You would see these connections, Justin, if it weren't for your blind hate for Lefties.
epppie
April 29th, 2010 at 7:36 am
You should also blame Nafta and other US policies of economic imperialism
Druthers
April 29th, 2010 at 8:51 am
After stuffing us with corn sirup and driving the Mexican farmers into extreme poverty, we can hardly present ourselves as the shining knight while stabbing in the back anyone who resists our economic and military control.
I had a friend who was overjoyed to move to San Antonio because there was all that cheap labor and so devasted there would be all those brown children in the schools.
Put the employers who hire illegal labor in jail. It is cheaper that building fences and would be far more effective.
No one who has not experienced it knows what it is to be really hungry!
abiman
April 29th, 2010 at 11:46 am
Mexico has been dealt with same remedies as was done with Peurto Rico. Both lost their rural support system under the American corportae rules and militarism.Peurto Rico gets their food stamp in Peorto Ricco ( or they work in the military ) while Mexicans have to earn the 'Food Stamp" in USA.
john
April 29th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Of course the borders must be sealed against illegal immigration; the United States simply cannot aborb the forty million Mexicans who live in poverty, and of course we cannot have completely open borders that wil bring half the world into the United states to take advantage of social services. While I agree that the United States should legalize drugs and subject them to regulations, the problem of open borders must be separated from the drug problem. And while we all cherish freedom, it is a contradiction for a nation to be so free that it permits behavior that threatens the very existence of that nation which gurantees freedom.
john
April 29th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Of course the borders must be sealed against illegal immigration; the United States simply cannot aborb the forty million Mexicans who live in poverty, and of course we cannot have completely open borders that wil bring half the world into the United states to take advantage of social services. While I agree that the United States should legalize drugs and subject them to regulations, the problem of open borders must be separated from the drug problem. And while we all cherish freedom, it is a contradiction for a nation to be so free that it permits behavior that threatens the very existence of that nation which gurantees freedom.
John
April 29th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Immigration, drugs and military brought to police the US border. Now there is a mix that no two people will agree on entirely – and a mix that has plagued this country and many others.
I think, however, it is a good topic to leave to other venues. AW.C is precious indeed for its focus on the antiwar/anti-Empire issue. The US border is not at the heart of this issue although it does border on it.
I think it is great for Justin and staff to disagree and to be willing to say so. I do not think it would serve the movement against war and Empire if this were to threaten AW.C in any way.
Keep up the good work.
jw
Chris Mallory
April 29th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
The US is underpopulated? Funny all the people out of work probably wouldn't think so. Flooding the nation with third world peasants isn't a recipe for wealth.
Chris Mallory
April 29th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
The US is underpopulated? Funny all the people out of work probably wouldn't think so. Flooding the nation with third world peasants isn't a recipe for wealth.
Justin Raimondo
April 29th, 2010 at 5:52 am
I'm sorry, but I just can't take this article very seriously.
To say that the US government should not be defending America's borders is absurd. This isn't anti-interventionism, or even libertarianism — it's just sheer nonsense.
The legalization of drugs — which, by the way, is not going to happen, at least not in our lifetimes –will not eliminate the criminal organizations preying on the people of Arizona. The Mafia, which profited from alcohol prohibtion, still exists, just as the Mexican version will continue to exist in the unlikely event all drugs are legalized. And to tell Arizonans they must await the legalization of drugs before they are to be given a respite from the crime wave sweeping their state is laughable. If law enforcement in Arizona cannot even question people who are apparently here illegally, and the US government is not permitted to defend its own borders, then what would the authors of this article say to the people of Arizona — roll over and die?
Justin Raimondo
April 29th, 2010 at 5:52 am
I'm sorry, but I just can't take this article very seriously.
To say that the US government should not be defending America's borders is absurd. This isn't anti-interventionism, or even libertarianism — it's just sheer nonsense.
The legalization of drugs — which, by the way, is not going to happen, at least not in our lifetimes –will not eliminate the criminal organizations preying on the people of Arizona. The Mafia, which profited from alcohol prohibtion, still exists, just as the Mexican version will continue to exist in the unlikely event all drugs are legalized. And to tell Arizonans they must await the legalization of drugs before they are to be given a respite from the crime wave sweeping their state is laughable. If law enforcement in Arizona cannot even question people who are apparently here illegally, and the US government is not permitted to defend its own borders, then what would the authors of this article say to the people of Arizona — roll over and die?
Hugo
April 29th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
No country is perfect. Foreign drug production is imported to USA by US drug organizations, and sold to inhabitants of USA by US persons. The consequences of drug abuse are terrible. Legalization of drugs production/transportation/possesion/consumption internationally might help to combat the criminal trade but it will not end the nasty consequences of drug use/abuse.
Immigration is just that, movement of people for many reasons economic/fear of prosecution, etc., I am in favor of fair regulation of immigration so the needs/rights of the immigrants are respected and the laws of the receiving country are respected.
I am a Mexican citizen working in USA at the time with a valid work visa.
liberal
April 29th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
"Of course I don't blame the illegals for all of this. I blame the people who employ illegals. There is more to a country than simply an economic zone and I have no desire to live in a third world country courtesy of the globalists. I am glad Arizona passed this law."
You _almost_ got it when you wrote, "I blame the people who employ illegals."
Arizona's law won't really do anything to stem the flow of illegal immigration. The solution is rather simple, actually: draconian laws against employment of illegal immigrants.
Advocacy of laws and regulations cracking down on the immigrants themselves show that the person isn't well informed, or isn't serious about the problem.
Harsh employer sanctions—in the form of large fines and hefty jail time—would solve the problem very quickly. We wouldn't even have to arrange deportations; the immigrants would return to their home countries on their own accord.
liberal
April 29th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
"The nation that gains immigrants will, therefore, be richer."
Maybe the total GDP would be higher, but most of the gains would flow to holders of land, who are in economic terms rent collecting parasites and not true deployers of productive capital.
Of course, von Mises is a <a ref="http://geolib.com/essays/sullivan.dan/royallib.html">royal libertarian like most other libertarians, and didn't understand that.
Tony Abdo
April 29th, 2010 at 6:15 am
'The drug legalization issue is a red herring: this is a matter of national sovereignty. We have borders: they must be defended.'
Calm down, Justin. Nobody is attacking our borders? Thanks for trying to defend them though, though you seem to not find the time to defend the individual rights of those who do need work to feed their families. It seems that you are a USA First sort of guy and to Hell with the kids that depend on their dads going off way far away to the US to get the money to do just that. Hell, let them eat cake! 'Our' Borders are sacrosanct and the human right to have a way to earn a living is secondary!
It really boggles my mind that you, Justin, think that Mexican laborers coming to work the fields, construction sites, and janitorial jobs are akin to the Evil Red menace??? Invaders of the Fatherland that you must defend your Patria from… What gives? Where did you get this high level of paranoia from?
Marian
April 29th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
If drugs are ever legalized, it will be done for tax purposes. Throw in liability cost, and guess what there will still be robust black market.
As for illegal immigrants and work, they are just be exploited with long hours and poor working conditions. Can't complain since their illegal. Let's face it their employers do not want them ever to be legal. Minute they become legal, fire them and onto the next desperate illegal.
Bottom line we've got to deal with the problem. The seeds for war and conflict start in simple little ways. Are we watching the seeds beings sowed? Don't know for sure, but I suspect they have sprouted.
protobone
April 29th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
It seemed the point of Raimondo's article was his typewriter getting ganked by Mexican Federales. Left a lasting scar on Raimondo's soul. Migrants want something better for their families and themselves. The "border" issue is a 'smoke and mirrors' distraction. Migrants face impossible odds and immigration policy that rapes the migrants daily. Migrants are forced to pay through the nose for the "privilege" of becoming a U.S. citizen. Costs about 15 to 20 thousand dollars and that is U.S.D. and depending on "whom" is handling a case down at "Immigration Central" that cost can be even more. The immigration process is inherently corrupt. So, the migrants deal with their plight as best they can and still are treated as worse than slaves. Fix the damn immigration system and don't worry about a "fence" that the U.S. can't afford anyway.
jcp
April 29th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
very glad to see this piece – Raimondo went far off the deep end. Immigrants, even if 'illegal,' are "the biggest single threat to our national security"? Can he really believe this? People are human beings first, not 'citizens,' and our sisters and brothers trying to live and support their families are not a 'threat.'
Now how about a similar column on Philip Giraldi's support of the US-backed coup in Honduras?
Phil Giraldi
April 29th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Justin has got this right. It is not interventionism to defend your own borders. When someone goes looking for a "root cause" it is a way of shifting the narrative. Control over a nation's borders is an absolutely vital national interest for reasons both of security and national identity. Both Bush and Obama have failed to understand that. Whatever the "cause" of the turmoil along the border with Mexico might be the reality is that the United States currently has no control over who enters the country and for what reason. That must change if we are to remain a functioning nation. You have to fix the immediate problem before considering what longer term remedies might be – that means doing whatever it takes to secure the border.
T-John
April 29th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
From a limited perspective of a laborer in Texas I can tell you that a part of the reason (which almost no one ever mentions) we have almost nothing but Mexican nationals working construction is that contractors aren't allowed to hire young people anymore. When I was a kid almost all the laborer jobs on a construction site in Texas were teenagers working for the summer or during school it was teenagers who had quit school and were entering the workforce. You can't hire teenagers anymore because the state will come out and fine you.
Bob Van den Broeck
April 29th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
My Mom and Dad are in their 70's and they have to put up with 4 mexican drug Cartels, human trafficers, extreme violence, murder Car wrecks, and kidnappings, because a bunch of LIBERALS at ANTIWAR.com say so. Our family are immigrants that moved to AZ in 1961. My Dad was not allowed to reside and practice medicine in states like Virginia and Indiana. We were denied residency there. Arizona is at War with foreign entities and you write this crap. Where is Raimando and sanity? You need to experience a shootout on the beltway in the lane next to you with automatic weapons being fired during the home commute. Or a neighbor two streets down being tortured and killed while you slept. You will then understand then maybe. The Movie Star State next door is a big part of the problem. Some REALITY PLEASE!!!!
salvador
April 29th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
America is responsible for the drug cartels, as is the corrupt mexican government for allowing them to grow , but if it wasn't for american's love for drugs who would they sell them too? Europe? I live in central México and I don't know a single person who uses them. There isn't a big market for them here, they want to sell them to the U.S.
You have every right to close the border and kick all the illegals out….maybe you could bring your soldiers from the middle east, stop killing all those arabs and bring them to the american southwest to protect you. ….do that and shut up!
Tim
April 29th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
An excellent article regarding the intersection of illegal immigration, the drug war, and terrorism. Rarely do I find such a concise treatment of a complex issue. When I read something like this, I am glad I am able to give Anti War a few bucks every year. The main point is stop thinking like statists. Every government program, whether its foreign or domestic, has unintended and baleful consequences. Be not afraid! Freedom works!
Justin Raimondo
April 29th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Just wait until it starts happening in San Francisco.
Justin Raimondo
April 29th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
If criminals involved in murder, kidnapping, theft, and other illegal activities are just wanting to "feed their families," then we should legalize murder, kidnapping, and theft, along with instituting a policy of open borders. This isn't about immigration — it's about protecting American citizens from coercion by criminal elements. You can evade the crime wave in Arizona, because you don't live there — but what about the people who do live there?
Connestee
April 29th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Great piece by the authors and credit to their fellow editors for signing on to the article. I immediately noticed that Phil Giraldi didn't sign on but, oh well, just have to disagree with one of my favorite contributors to the site in this one.
So, some faith restored in Antiwar.com for someone who has just about run out of places to have faith in.
Justin Raimondo
April 29th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Salvador, I agree with you completely — but here in America, putting our own troops on our own border is "raaaaaaaacist," as the editorial staff of Antiwar.com, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, and Rachel Maddow will gladly tell you.
Justin Raimondo
April 29th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Don't you find it odd, Phil, that one has to make an argument in favor of preserving our national sovereignty? Gee, I wonder what is the "root cause" of this kind of ideological blindness?
Justin Raimondo
April 29th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
I don't think Mises would classify the Mexican Mafia's penetration of the US-Mexican border as "the free flow of labor." And we aren't talking about "immigrants" in the ordinary sense of the word: we're talking about someone who comes across the border and takes up a life of violent crime. But nice try, anyway.
Justin Raimondo
April 29th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
I see the campaign is going full-bore. When are you going to ask the San Francisco Board of Supervisors to sign on? I'm sure you could get Nancy Pelosi, too, if only you'd give her a call. Oh, the possibilities are endless ….
Bianca
April 29th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Mixing apples, oranges and all kinds of fruit and vegetables in this debate. Make up your mind. While I fully understand and support the communities that are feeling the brunt of the menace — and can see how in their neighborhoods immigrants, drugs and violence come in the same package — the issues are very, very different. For those who need defence, nobody can lecture them; they will do what they need to do. But it will not solve problems, because the root causes are not addressed.
Immigration and the destruction of agriculture, fishing and other native self-sustaining economies are throwing hundreds of millions world-wide adrift. Their politicians accept the agro-business money to destroy their indigenous economies — what else is new? But the ill gotten gains have us believe that money can grow on trees, and our financial monsters now want their share of our blood. Empires always implode from inside.
Bianca
April 29th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
Drug Wars were not Wars ON Drugs, but Wars FOR Drugs. In Colombia there was a mayhem until drug lords (that survived) became the funding cash cows for politicians. Now, there is "peace", and the "respectable" government of Colombia is our dearest partner. Same in Kosovo. Albanian heroin mafia is the largest in Europe, and Kosovo is their playground. Afghanistan is still the work in progress. Its 65 billion in drug trade will have to be channeled by obedient drug kings into appropriate coffers. The problem is, whose? Those that would accept Afghanistan to remain NATO's remote dusty imperial outpost will get the jackpot. Mexico is in the early stages of this process. The little, disobedient dealers will be wiped out, and the remaining big will fund our dearly beloved conservative goverment in Mexico City from now till eternity.
Bianca
April 29th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Drugs are business — period. It is getting regulated by politicians who increasingly control the top drug producers and dealers. In Afghanistan, US prohibited destruction of poppy fields. In Marja surge, months were given to druglords to remove and hide hundreds of labs for heroin production. All fields are spared. And to move hundreds of tons of heroin, in a country of few, and difficult roads, under NATO's watchfull eye? Please, everybody knows what is going on.
Drugs from Afghanistan are killing millions of people in Asia. It is a new version of opium war, and it is no less then a biological weapon, just as antrax or small pox. As it spreads, it also spreads AIDS. Nobody cares if feebleminded populace dies off. Less population, less health care costs, fewer mouths to feed. Money is much better spent on trust funds for the brats of the rich and famous. They are born with the retirement system, while they begrudge small people from collecting a pittance after a life long pay into the Social Security "trust" funds. We are all feeble minded, come to think of it.
uka
April 29th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
I am sick and tired of hearing these people want a better life. I would have a better life if they were not here. I am in construction and I could work 7 days a week if I wanted. Now I work 7 days a month. I was born here so I guess I do not count
Ron Johnson
April 29th, 2010 at 11:04 am
Ludwig von Mises made the case in "Omnipotent Government" that, in the pursuit of economic nationalism, the free flow of labor across national borders would be restricted. The immediate result would be higher wages in the "under populated" country, and lower wages in the "over populated country (under and over defined as having excess productive workers). The longer term result is the unseen relative impoverishment of everybody on both sides of the border due to poor allocation of productive resources. The upshot: open the borders and some people will end up with lower monetary wages, but productivity will improve making goods and services cheaper for everybody.
The nation that gains immigrants will, therefore, be richer.
Gary Chartier
April 29th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
I love Justin and his work, and I think the commenter who described him as a warmonger couldn't be farther off base. But I think the notion of defending borders—much less “national identity”—just isn't consistent with any sort of defensible anti-statist politics. The basic problem with border controls is that they interfere with consensual, peaceful relationships between people. If there are violent people, deal with them. But don't impose legal penalties on peaceful cooperation.
Muggles
April 29th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
"Drug legalization a red herring"? What has Justin been smoking?
It is just like alcohol during Prohibition, only far worse. The mafia continued to exist when official prohibition ended by moving to other black market businesses, gambling (now mostly legalized) and of course the drug business (and some tax evasion schemes). It is nearly defunct today Justin.
In truth the illegal aliens in our midst are harmless. Yes there are a few criminals, just like citizens. What organized violence there is stems again from drug black market activities.
Unfortunately the "paleo" instincts rear their ugly nativist heads in Justin's unfortunate piece.
Instead of advocating reciprocity of travel and residence with our neighbors, Justin seems to merely parrot fascist/nationalist slogans of opportunist AZ politicans.
As for me, I live in a community with tens of thousands of peaceful hispanics without govt papers. I fear them far less than the jackbooted thugs allegedly protecting borders.
Justin should be advocating benign neglect on the immigration front, instead of dancing the racist polka with the "your papers please" crowd.
Shame, Justin. You know better.
bogi666
April 29th, 2010 at 11:12 am
II agree that Justin's article was driveling nonsense and it showed his so called libertarianism for the war mongering that libertarianism really is all about. It fails to address the root causes of empire which is the withholding tax and deficit spending which became obscene with Reagoon. In 1981 there were 400 lobbyists in Wash., D.C. Since then the lobbyists have increased to 45,000 and it can be attributed to deficit spending. It is the CORPORATE WELFARE KINGS which want deficit spending because they get the proceeds from the Treasury bond sales with the principle and interest paid by individual taxpayers. Reagoon also reduced the taxes of THE CORPORATE WELFARE KINGS, simultaneously. It's not the entitlements which benefit the public, it's the WELFARE KINGS ENTITLEMENTS which the WELFARE KINGS WANT and lobby for, that's the problem.
JTaylor48
April 29th, 2010 at 11:29 am
Libertarianism is not about warmongering – quite the opposite. And Raimondo's article was not a libertarian perspective. The drug issue is not a red herring, but it is not the only issue. People come to this country to make a better life. Some come to work, some come to take advantage of 'progressive' social benefits. The ones who come to work are not a problem. The others are. Let's eliminate the war on drugs, eliminate a 'free ride' for anybody, open the borders to all who would become citizens (read property holders and productive wage earners) and see what happens.
Dimitry
April 29th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
Justin,
How does one really "defend" the US/Mexican border? The US has never shown any appetite to spend the kind of money and resources to make it really hard to cross. It is VERY espensive and logistically daunting to do, and, apparently there are VERY powerful US business interests, which are against significantly restricting the relatively free flow of labor accross the border.
Your column focuses on the apparent "danger" to the US population from the drug wars over US markets that is raging mostly on the Mexican side. While the reporting from the "scene" may seem alarming, statistics (from what I understand) really don't support the view that illegal immigrants are involved in criminal activity (aside from their illegal or undocumented status) in any greater numbers than the American population (proportionally). This, by the way, makes good sense – if you are in the country illegally, you are likely to keep your head down.
Dimitry
April 29th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Continued from last post…
So, at the end of the day, what we have from you is a factually flawed, rather hysterical column, that attackes a whole group of people quite unfairly, paints them as a terrorist conduit with no evidence whatsoever, calls on the government to "stop them" (I guess) by stationing large numbers of military troops in a line accross the border and harassing Mexian looking people on the US side by demanding "papers" from anyone the police chooses to single out on a whim.
Suprisingly, when your own editorial staff points out the many logical inconsistencies in your article, and highlights the ideological contradictions of having ostensible libertarian calling for sealing of borders and population control through random searches and harassment, you respond with snide dismisiveness and flippant arrogance.
It's a sad day for Antiwar.com.
guest
April 29th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
"If law enforcement in Arizona cannot even question people who are apparently here illegally.."
Or if we cannot emulate the Great Wall of China, then we're going to have to live with the choices we make, like every other nation. Americans choose to hire undocumented servants. The IRS knowingly garners billions in income taxes from the same. Documented Americans have others to do much menial labor, and enjoy a significant social security subsidy from their servants who pay into our system but can't collect.
Tranquilo, Raimundo. Americans (of the Southern variety) are being exploited, but they still come and go without presenting a threat worthy of transforming our society into a closed and prickly place.
If you truly prefer living in a police state, Jason- Please consider just moving to one that is already all set up that way. With the journalistic portfolio you're building, you could easily get all your paperwork in order, and even a government-paid job cheerleading crackdowns and isolation. ¡Buen Viaje!
Lilly Steinberg
April 29th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Good column, Justin. Stick to your guns. This is about national sovereignty more than anything else.
SWeiss
April 29th, 2010 at 7:11 pm
What a bizarre response to Justin's article. I've never seen Antiwar.com writers before have to cobble together an army of other writers to "endorse" their article. There's something coercive about it.
SWeiss
April 29th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
T-John,
Are you sure the reason is that the Mexican illegals are willing to work for less? They simply offer cheaper labor than the American youth?
Jean
April 29th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
Great column Justin.
ziggy
April 29th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
SWeiss: "What a bizarre response"
If we ever stand up against xenophobic impulses in the USA, it's going to require those who do to put their names behind it. I salute Antiwar.com
Frank
April 29th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
And how is that mafia (organized crime in general) making their money now? Not selling alcohol. They're making their $ thanks to other government nonsense. They're in drugs. They're in gambling. They're in state-connected unions. You see where I'm going. They make money off things the gov't bans or monopolizes. Lock down the border and organized crime will probably find a way to make mega-bucks smuggling people into the country.
You're right that immigration restrictions are not interventionism. But they're also not libertarian since they violate property rights.
TonyJoseph
April 29th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
A primary responsibility of the Federal Government is to secure our borders and thus protect our citizens – that responsibility is NOT being fulfilled by the Federal Government by having our borders completely open.
We have ONE MILLION violent drug dealing murdering gang members in this country terrorizing every state and every city / town – not only our border towns but EVERY town.
To refer to the 20,000,000 who have INVADED our country as "illegal immigrants" is a LIE! By having broken the law to enter the U.S. they are 'CRIMINAL invaders" – YES – 'criminals'!
The reality – and this is NOT racist but it is the truth – that these 'invaders' have brought with them their culture of drug dealing; of disrespect for any laws; of violence, murder, and drive by shootings; of a gang culture; of all of the criminal elements that are destroying America.
Our cultural diversity and political correctness are destroying US! Ever see an American flag flown by our invaders from Mexico?
Frank
April 29th, 2010 at 7:37 pm
First, I don't think you're article was controversial at all. What I don't understand is how surprised you seem to be at the libertarian view on property rights and non-aggression. I find it hard to believe that, with the crowd you keep, you have not heard this same objection to your opinion on many previous occassions Dr. Paul isn't surprised when he hears them and, while he doesn't agree, he admits he understands the principles from which the objection is based. For the record, it's one of the few areas where I disagree with him.
Anyone calling you a racist should go work for AIPAC but I find it disingenous that you're ignoring libertarian objections. Rachel Maddow also doesn't believe in property rights or non-aggression so you have as much in common with her as do the ad hominem commenters.
David Landau
April 29th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
What a pathetic article. These writers brandish their "commitment to non-interventionism and opposition to militarism." What about a commitment to the United States? Do they have one? How far down the list of their priorities is it? A nation cannot exist without real borders.
Frank
April 29th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
I am having a hard time believing this is really Justin.
Johnny in Wi.
April 29th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
There was a post of mine not allowed. I don't know why. it was civil and to the point.
Frank
April 29th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
In other words, you support aggression against people exercising their property rights.
Ian
April 29th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
I'm with Justin on this one. Although I'd love to throw my support behind this article it's just flat out unrealistic. That being said antiwar is still hands down the best website on foreign policy issues on the interwebz and I think it's great that not all contributors march lock-step and see eye-to-eye on every single thing. Keep up the great work, all of you.
Frank
April 29th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Don't criticize something if you don't understand what you're criticizing. Libertarians don't believe there are acceptable reasons to violate property rights.
Bene_Tleilax
April 29th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Wow. Talk about a "knee-jerk" Liberal reaction to a self-evident statement of Fact! Antiwar is apparently not Anti-neo-liberal economics!
Here is a pretty obvious and clearly Demonstrable statement of fact: everywhere the US "empire" goes, drug trafficking is sure to follow.
Why? Because the TRILLION dollar a year drug trade MUST be laundered Somehow – i.e. via Wall Street…Goldman, Citi, JPMorgan, etc.
There is a REASON why drugs are Illegal: profits for bankers that would otherwise Not Exist.
I would venture so far as to say that the SOLE reason for the CIA's existence is to launder Drug Money through Wall Street.
Why else would EVERY SINGLE director of the CIA since it's founding be a a WALL STREET BANKER or "business man"???
These truths are self-evident, mofos.
Paul Stokes
April 29th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Ideological solutions, whether emanating from Libertarians, Liberals, Conservatives, Democrats, or Republicans, is not a good way to solve practical problems. I happen to agree that our drug laws are responsible for the border violence. But making that case by resorting to ideological arguments such as the purported effects on our liberties is equivalent to having a solution in search of a problem. The problem of border violence should be addressed by looking for logical solutions, not ideological ones – including changes in the drug laws – but also considering such things as the strengthening of border security mechanisms, and methods to eliminate the benefits of illegal immigration to US businesses.
Frank
April 29th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
I can put you in touch with people who have the same exact story except they reside in areas of the country that have almost zero immigrants (legal or not). You should probably be a lot more pissed at Bush, Obama, Greenspan and Bernake that you are at immigrants. In fact, if you don't want immigrants, maybe you should thank them. Since the bubble burst, data from the border patrol, mexican gov't and census all show that immigration from mexico dropped off a cliff.
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/consumer/the-…
Frank
April 29th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
More of less unrealistic as an end to American empire?
Frank
April 29th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
It's your last point that bothers me the most. I'm kind of hoping Justin comes out and says someone was impersonating him in these comments.
Phil Giraldi
April 29th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Sorry Bene, without even thinking too hard about it I can come up with three CIA directors who were military men, one who was a congressional staffer, one who was former director of the FBI, one who was a congressman, one came from the Pentagon, and two who were promoted internally from the ranks. Panetta is currently director and he is no ex-banker either.
Phil Giraldi
April 29th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
Connestee, thank you for enjoying my pieces, but I agree completely with Justin. Securing a country's borders is a vital national interest, much more important that grievance politics and searching for "root causes."
Jim
April 29th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Drug dealing is definitely a huge problem, and nobody can disagree with that. What is even more dangerous is the fact that these mafias are like cancer nodes. Here is South America their tentacles have reached high political office. The problem is what to do about that. A state must address the problem; otherwise, it gives up sovereignty and jurisdiction, two essential elements of any viable state. Justin, although I cannot agree with your opinions about the Mexicans being a menace to US security, in the final analysis, the onus is on the American government. I really don't know what you should do, but you must act fast. Or, you may wake up one day with AIPAC having been replaced by some drug cartels.
Jim
April 29th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Drug dealing is definitely a huge problem, and nobody can disagree with that. What is even more dangerous is the fact that these mafias are like cancer nodes. Here is South America their tentacles have reached high political office. The problem is what to do about that. A state must address the problem; otherwise, it gives up sovereignty and jurisdiction, two essential elements of any viable state. Justin, although I cannot agree with your opinions about the Mexicans being a menace to US security, in the final analysis, the onus is on the American government. I really don't know what you should do, but you must act fast. Or, you may wake up one day with AIPAC having been replaced by some drug cartels.
Mark W. Stroberg
April 29th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
"Defending" our borders? Against whom? These people are mostly coming here peacefully to find a better life for themselves. You have no more right to "defend" America against the peaceful movement of labor from Mexico that you have to "defend" California against the peaceful movement of labor from Nevada.
Justin, I know your job is stressful but I think you've finally lost it. Whatever happened to that anti-government radical I knew over thirty years ago who would never, never worship government violence?
Tom Mauel, WI
April 29th, 2010 at 9:40 pm
First it is great to see a Libertarian site confront the economic issues that lurk behind every war.
Raimondo is inconsistent because he has no real political background or no politics as they say. His anti socialism often borders on hysteria but he offers no alternative program other than a free market law of the jungle. His economic political beliefs are very close to the basic economic argument of the Republican party, no government regulation, free markets, low taxes. Thus he offers no alternative to the existing system.
You can rail about the obvious evils of foreign wars all day long but unless you get to the root causes from the existing repressive capitalist system and the owners who profit from those wars
there can be no solution.
paulBass
April 29th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
why don't we use b52 stealth bombers and conventional icbm to handle drug trafficking, this way we can not solve any of the problems but keep all the people making the problems as rich and powerful as possible
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
Some people don't consider living amongst a lot more Mexicans akin to dying, Justin.
No more than New York died when wave after wave of immigrant came without the foggiest imaginings of the bureaucracy you clowns now think somehow absolutely necessary to defend you from immediate, super-scary…… "terrorism"!! What else?
I actually wondered if you wrote this as an intellectual exercise to bait people because it is preposterous to allow 20,000,000 Latinos to cause you any fear or insecurity or any need to "defend" anything…
and how this utterly irrational fear literal lead to the immediate "terrorism" paranoia and cries for sacrificing freedom for government provided safety would be farcical if not for the very real violations of freedom against AMERICAN CITIZEN (since they are the only ones who count with rights, apparently) Latinos all over the place. It has already started. It will only spiral out of control.
All militarization efforts at the border are doomed to mostly brutalize and violate the rights largely of peaceful economic migrants and legal US American Citizens of Latino heritage.
For shame, Justin.
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
Frank,
I really don't think he can wiggle out of this one so easily. Why else, honestly, would a man whose life is committed to the very principles you admit he seems all of a sudden blind to in this one instance ??
Because the thought of too many Latinos "invading" America with their "terrorism" causes him such irrational fear.
It is clear. It is obvious, even if it is uncomfortable, as it is for me as a long time supporter of the site to see it.
It is based in racism.
Just because Rachel and liberals and the SF Board are wrong about many, even most, things in no way means they are wrong on this one.
The definition and conception of mass Latino immigration as a huge and pressing problem is itself a child of the racism that contradicts the very central individualist principles of libertarianism.
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
Frank,
I really don't think he can wiggle out of this one so easily. Why else, honestly, would a man whose life is committed to the very principles you admit he seems all of a sudden blind to in this one instance ??
Because the thought of too many Latinos "invading" America with their "terrorism" causes him such irrational fear.
It is clear. It is obvious, even if it is uncomfortable, as it is for me as a long time supporter of the site to see it.
It is based in racism.
Just because Rachel and liberals and the SF Board are wrong about many, even most, things in no way means they are wrong on this one.
The definition and conception of mass Latino immigration as a huge and pressing problem is itself a child of the racism that contradicts the very central individualist principles of libertarianism.
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
And what are your New Libertarian Policies to keep us all Safe From Crime ??
Are they like the Democratic congressmen who want to militarize the South Side of Chicago because of the "crime wave" there?
Do you support this, since it is their number one duty, obviously, to Keep Us Safe From Crime ??
Dimitry
April 29th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
Are they forcing you to take their drugs at gunpoint?
Or is your insatiable desire for drugs, combined with our government criminalization of your fix, bringing this violence to you?
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
Uhhh, sorry Lou Dobbs…
What percentage of people interdicted, harassed, detained, tortured or killed at your militarized border will this description apply to?
How do you know ??
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Though I do think your inability to balance the harm from unintended consequences to peaceful economic migrants and innocent American Citizens (disproportionately Latinos, guaranteed) with whatever benefit you see in harassing whatever minuscule percentage of people are so engaged of those who would fall under suspicion in the border regions (of course, and "rationally" in that statist way, mostly Latinos, again) really gives away the game as to what this is all about.
These breaks in apparent ideology can really reveal true ideology (like the bailouts and our "free market" capitalism)
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
We can easily absorb them!
The only reason you claim not is because you don't want them around, but that is very different !!
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Oh yes! This is what Latinos bring.
There have never been any such shootouts with whites or legal Latino citizens involved.
The reality is cowards like you are why we have things like the PATRIOT ACT.
Buck up and don't sell out your freedom and that of others like peaceful economic migrants and legal Latino US Citizens who are bound to be hurt by these policies physically, legally, financially etc. and have just as many rights as your parents !!
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
I wonder if Justin will cover the freedom killing violations of US Citizens and their rights that have already started with the new anti "illegal immigration" crackdown he so supports!!
It has already started! When are you going to write about what these US Citizens have to put up with, Justin, because of your War On Illegal Immigration!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knv6nDZX1mc&fe…
He just doesn't care about Statist harmful unintended consequences in this one case because the vast majority of those so affected will be Latinos and those calling for government intervention are mostly white.
What else could it be ??
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
I wonder if Justin will cover the freedom killing violations of US Citizens and their rights that have already started with the new anti "illegal immigration" crackdown he so supports!!
It has already started! When are you going to write about what these US Citizens have to put up with, Justin, because of your War On Illegal Immigration!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knv6nDZX1mc&fe…
He just doesn't care about Statist harmful unintended consequences in this one case because the vast majority of those so affected will be Latinos and those calling for government intervention are mostly white.
What else could it be ??
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
Yea, wait till they start detaining and God knows what else to legal Latino citizens in San Fran. Wonder what side you'll be on then, Mr. Liberty.
Of course, there could never be any harmful unintended consequences of Justins' War On Illegal Immigration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knv6nDZX1mc&fe…
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:45 pm
Gosh! I sure wish Justin would write a column about all the legal Latino citizens who are already harassed in the border region and around the country because of the immigration hysteria he promotes with his War on Illegal Immigration.
What could possibly go wrong for any American Citizen with this plan?
Well, at least those that count…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knv6nDZX1mc&fe…
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
There is no way stopping 20,000,000 million Latinos from working or living here is in the national security interest.
It would be a benefit to the nation, not a risk, by far. The risk to the nation is a militarized border that will inevitably harass, torture and kill innocent peaceful Latino economic migrants and even Latino US Citizens.
This is much more important than white grievance politics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knv6nDZX1mc&fe…
generalissimo x
April 29th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
despite being banned from commenting on your articles i think your last piece was valid and raised a lot of very good points. i don't see where your article called for the "militarization" of anything, but rather suggested that we enforce our borders. not sure what's so crazy about that? i mean why have them? why do i need a passport to leave and enter the US? why do i have a SS#? and as you also state, "illegal" is exactly what you are..a law breaker and you don't belong here. i don't care if you're mexican, german, indian, whatever. you're a legal us citizen or you're not.
as for the drug war BS, legalizing is the only way to go. the CIA brings in the vast majority anyway so who are we kidding.
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
What do you think a militarized border is really gonna look like??
This is deadly serious for the Latinos of all legal statuses who reside in the border area when the inevitable harmful unintended consequences come home to roost!
Justin IS advocating a War on Illegal Immigration !
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
The confusion about the crime statistics and the conflation of criminals with peaceful economic migration and the invocation of invasion and terrorism are all quite telling.
But, because we all love antiwar.com we can't call a spade a spade that this is as obvious racism as the Birthers. Why else would all the principles go out the door on this one?
But it can't be the truth if it would agree with Politically Correct San Francisco people!!
I mean, come on, he doesn't even address the inevitable abuses in enforcement nor anti-immigration hysterias key historical role in building authoritarian state power.
What a joke.
liberranter
April 29th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
Perfectly stated, Frank!
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
Sorry, just kidding, none of this is about racism.
I hope all libertarian & antiwar forums are this welcoming to Latinos !
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
Sorry, just kidding, none of this is about racism.
I hope all libertarian & antiwar forums are this welcoming to Latinos !
Jerome
April 29th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Tom,
Your statement is mostly incorrect. NAFTA is not to blame, at least insofar as its regulation of the agricultural trade is concerned. The "impoverished Mexican farmers" you refer to did not sell into the commercial market anyway. The illegal aliens in the United States were subsistence farmers, migrant farmhands, and day laborers. The are not affected by corn prices.
The immigrant invasion was a problem long before NAFTA took effect in 1994.
The immigrant invasion since NAFTA has been powered by the severe economic crisis in Mexico from 1994-1998, the everexisting disparity in standard of living between the two countries, and America's extremely lax attitude toward enforcement.
Jerome
April 29th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Tom,
Your statement is mostly incorrect. NAFTA is not to blame, at least insofar as its regulation of the agricultural trade is concerned. The "impoverished Mexican farmers" you refer to did not sell into the commercial market anyway. The illegal aliens in the United States were subsistence farmers, migrant farmhands, and day laborers. The are not affected by corn prices.
The immigrant invasion was a problem long before NAFTA took effect in 1994.
The immigrant invasion since NAFTA has been powered by the severe economic crisis in Mexico from 1994-1998, the everexisting disparity in standard of living between the two countries, and America's extremely lax attitude toward enforcement.
David
April 29th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
Thank you, thank you, Phil and Justin. I can't thank you enough for having the courage to write about this problem.
David
April 29th, 2010 at 11:17 pm
Did anyone else find it odd that the writers of the piece solicited a bunch of other antiwar.com writers to "endorse" their viewpoint? Since when do writers on this website go around seeking explicit endorsements for the opinions they publish. It really seems like they are attempting to intimidate Justin and others who share his viewpoint.
liberranter
April 29th, 2010 at 11:19 pm
What if your hardworking Italian ancestors who came to America seeking a better life for themselves and their family had been summarily deported from the country just because the "native" element at the time suspected that there JUST MIGHT BE criminal Mafiosi among them and that thus the entire Italian immigration population posed a "national security threat" and thus closed the borders to any more of them?
Plus ca change, plus ca doesn't…
Jamie
April 29th, 2010 at 11:38 pm
I find this group "endorsement" and the groupthink censure of Raimondo very troubling. Antiwar.com staff is frickin' thought police, it turns out. Very weird.
liberranter
April 29th, 2010 at 11:39 pm
And a nation with borders that abandons its founding principles –the protection of life, liberty, and property– is not a nation worth "committing to."
See this recent William Norman Grigg contribution in which he addresses the concept of preservation of America's borders or state and national sovereignty as "goods of second intent." Simply stated, without adherence to the nation's founding principles and the preservation and enforcement of these principles by the governments of the several states, neither the nation nor its several states are worthy of preservation.
Jamie
April 29th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
Jason Ditz:
You got a problem with Americans enforcing their own borders?
Jamie
April 29th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
Bravo Justin.
T-John
April 30th, 2010 at 12:00 am
In some cases yes but not most. Especially for skilled like bricklayers and cabinetmakers.
The biggest problem is that they enforce labor laws against kids working. Like it's so much better for a kid to sit in front of a video game instead of learning to work and gaining the self esteem and independence of having your own money.
Justin
April 30th, 2010 at 12:02 am
James Gerardo Lamb:
Maybe Justin is . . . Heaven forbid . . . committed to the principle of the common good for the American people. You got a problem with that, you azz?
AngelaKeaton
April 29th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
Connestee,
This was a project of the staff's. Columnists were not asked. Professor Henderson asked to be added this morning.
AngelaKeaton
April 29th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
Connestee,
This was a project of the staff's. Columnists were not asked. Professor Henderson asked to be added this morning.
Colin Patrick Barth
April 30th, 2010 at 12:08 am
This not-so-subtly implies "grievances" are empty, PC posturing. Walled police states tend to generate real grievances. Why do such different sympathies apply to walled-out Palestinians and Mexicans, hmm? Ah, yes… when people are far away, convictions are conveniently theoretical, are they not.
In all this, it's thoroughly amazing how reflexive "secure-our-borders" parroting completely ignores the histories of borders before the statist 20th century (of war). The world didn't end because individuals could travel and immigrate where they could, and ignore jealous "nations"—quite the opposite. Get rid of the modern welfare lures, and any incentive for freeloaders added since then would be gone.
Colin Patrick Barth
April 30th, 2010 at 12:14 am
Yes, I'm afraid it's all too obvious, he's not taking the points of debate seriously or responding seriously, because he's got his reflexive point of view, which is (apparently, sadly) one bigoted against Mexicans and/or xenophobic towards immigrants. He's looking for agreement, not debate, and he peevishly resents being called to defend his point of view, like—oh, I don't know—any sort of intellectual might be _expected_ to do!
Colin Patrick Barth
April 30th, 2010 at 12:16 am
Just two writers; other signatories who didn't want to be associated with Justin's point of view. I wouldn't either!
Colin Patrick Barth
April 30th, 2010 at 12:31 am
So, let me get this straight: millions of dastardly Mexicans came into the US—sorry, "invaded," in order to 1) take "our" jobs (they belonged to you?!?), 2) take over the southwest (again), 3) bring drug gang violence (which was, of course, totally unknown in the USA before), and/or 4) threaten the national security of the United States (!) using their gang weapons, or possibly an al Qaeda dirty bomb (LOL!). Did I miss anything? No mention of raping white women while you're at it?
We'd get as much of a reconsideration from a parrot taught to shriek, "protect our borders!" as we do from the rote chauvinist xenophobes around here.
Colin Patrick Barth
April 30th, 2010 at 12:31 am
So, let me get this straight: millions of dastardly Mexicans came into the US—sorry, "invaded," in order to 1) take "our" jobs (they belonged to you?!?), 2) take over the southwest (again), 3) bring drug gang violence (which was, of course, totally unknown in the USA before), and/or 4) threaten the national security of the United States (!) using their gang weapons, or possibly an al Qaeda dirty bomb (LOL!). Did I miss anything? No mention of raping white women while you're at it?
We'd get as much of a reconsideration from a parrot taught to shriek, "protect our borders!" as we do from the rote chauvinist xenophobes around here.
Colin Patrick Barth
April 30th, 2010 at 12:35 am
Exactly. Same old xenophobic drivel. And yet, everyone here is an immigrant.
egarris
April 29th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Phil was not approached to sign. We only asked the staff to sign (David Henderson asked to be added).
Colin Patrick Barth
April 30th, 2010 at 2:14 am
I love how people pretend that millions of Mexicans are "illegals" out of pernicious choice. Do you have any clue whatsoever how tough it is to get a visa, and a green card? Especially as a manual laborer? Immigration officials make opportunities for academics, et al., not people who work with their hands. No doubt Mexican laborers would love to be legal. The US government makes them illegal, nothing else. I for one don't care what the US govt. says! They're welcome to live and work near me. Maybe some more Mexican shops and restaurants will "invade" with them (and other restaurants will get better, to judge from half the staff in NYC fine-dining kitchens).
MvGuy
April 30th, 2010 at 2:18 am
Do, Michael Austin, Matt Barganier, Jason Ditz, Michael Ewens, Eric Garris, Malcolm Garris,
Alexia Gilmore, Margaret Griffis, David Henderson (columnist), Scott Horton [Et tu Scotty..??], Angela Keaton, Thomas Knapp, Jeremy Sapienza, the "endorsers" of "Revisited" endorse it 100%..??
And if so it seems it could imply that they thereby endorse "South of the Border"……O%..?? What is with these endorsements ANYWAY..?? At best they are suspicious, at worst they are divisive and combative. How does one spell COUP…… Is being Garris-ed like being garrotted..??
Jill Gluck
April 30th, 2010 at 2:36 am
Easy Dimitry. Station U.S. troops there. That way they will have something useful to do when they get back from Iraq, Afghanistan, Krygystan, Iran, Syria, Beirut, Somalia, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Arab Emirates, West Bank, Gaza. You know the drill. There are even some in Germany, North Korea, and Japan we could redploy to safeguard our national sovereignty.
David Landau
April 29th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
What a pathetic article. These writers brandish their "commitment to non-interventionism and opposition to militarism." What about a commitment to the United States? Do they have one? How far down the list of their priorities is it? A nation cannot exist without real borders.
Dimitry
April 30th, 2010 at 3:20 am
Would you mind if the all the returning troops quarter in your part of the country?
Looking for internal "conflicts" to use returning imperial troops in is generally not a good idea.
Most native-born Americans, having enjoyed a blissfully peaceful personal history, can't imagine why it might be a problem to have lots of armed troops roaming about, looking for "enemies" foreign and domestic.
Troops returning from foreign occupations, generally make very poor "safeguarders of national sovereignty". In addition, our Constitution doesn't envision a role of an Army for such a purpose. There might be even a law with a Latin name about it….
RobertBrager
April 30th, 2010 at 3:31 am
"His economic political beliefs are very close to the basic economic argument of the Republican party, no government regulation, free markets, low taxes. Thus he offers no alternative to the existing system."
Right. Because the existing system is typified by no government regulation, free markets, and low taxation. What parallel universe are you reaching out to us from? The existing system is crippling, regimental regulation designed to protect the largest players from competition and the consequences of poor business decision. Such a regulatory apparatus by definition contradict the existence of any genuine free market. Taxation, hidden or direct, is high, punitive, and crippling for all but the largest, politically-connected players. It's easy to discount the alternative if you come out and call the alternative the status quo when, in fact, it is no such thing.
RobertBrager
April 30th, 2010 at 3:36 am
What censure?
Here's how I see it. Raimondo's position flatly contradicts the libertarian position and engenders a variation on the War on (Insert government manufactured crisis); in this case a war on the free movement of people and labor and the right of people to associate freely, secure in their property. The editorial staff, presumably alarmed that the signal being sent to readers of Antiwar.com is that Raimondo is steering in a new direction in contravention of the site's stated purpose and guiding philosophy, has signed on to Anthony's editorial to in effect state that Antiwar.com is not abandoning its anti-interventionist principles.
Mark W. Stroberg
April 29th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
"Defending" our borders? Against whom? These people are mostly coming here peacefully to find a better life for themselves. You have no more right to "defend" America against the peaceful movement of labor from Mexico that you have to "defend" California against the peaceful movement of labor from Nevada.
Justin, I know your job is stressful but I think you've finally lost it. Whatever happened to that anti-government radical I knew over thirty years ago who would never, never worship government violence?
James Gerardo Lamb
April 29th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
You got any evidence this crime wave is somehow distinct from others committed by legal citizens of every ethnic group in this country?
What does it have to do with the border, then, Justin??
What does it have to do with immigration?
Surely you don't think all those fine upstanding elderly Arizona white people are just concerned about some non-ethnically related statistical "crime wave"….?
Dimitry
April 30th, 2010 at 5:40 am
Careful with all those guns. Lots of guns, lots of anger and lots of fear is a bad combination.
Colin Patrick Barth
April 30th, 2010 at 12:31 am
So, let me get this straight: millions of dastardly Mexicans came into the US—sorry, "invaded," in order to 1) take "our" jobs (they belonged to you?!?), 2) take over the southwest (again), 3) bring drug gang violence (which was, of course, totally unknown in the USA before), and/or 4) threaten the national security of the United States (!) using their gang weapons, or possibly an al Qaeda dirty bomb (LOL!). Did I miss anything? No mention of raping white women while you're at it?
We'd get as much of a reconsideration from a parrot taught to shriek, "protect our borders!" as we do from the rote chauvinist xenophobes around here.
Bara
April 30th, 2010 at 1:45 am
I used to live near the Mexico border, and these sorts of questions came up all of the time. But what it always came down to is: why is it another person's right to move to the US illegally? I just don't get that.
Mexico has its problems, no doubt, but it's not that bad of a place to live (for the most part) and not beyond repair. But the immigrants get conned into believing that America is the place to be, and they get exploited over and over again, year after year, by the con men in Mexico then the con men in the US. Some get lucky and establish a good life here, but so many live a life no better than what they had in Mexico, and they go bankrupt, several times, just for the opportunity to die here. Just so we can have cheap labor and pat ourselves on the back pretending we are helping the poor people of Mexico. It's patronizing and selfish to lure people here–at their expense–just to fulfill our need to be charitable.
And then we get them to vote for our favorite politician, who supposedly supports the immigrants' cause and sympathizes with their plight, but won't demand equal wages for equal work, because that sounds socialist and "those people" aren't citizens anyway.
Jessica
April 30th, 2010 at 2:02 am
It's a sad day when an American can't call for his government to enforce his country's borders without being called out as a racist.
HammerFan
April 30th, 2010 at 2:59 am
Hell, yeah, Justin! You told it like it is and those who are appalled that we dare to defend our borders are sticking their heads into the sand. Damn, I ended up getting to an argument over all of this at a rock concert here last Saturday night against someone who was basically an open borders fan. We are going to end up like Europe if we are not careful. Justin, Pat Buchanan, and Steve Sailer have it all right on this issue.
StanLey
April 30th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
The author of this article believes that legalizing drugs would end these problems of border violence and that all the Mexicans that want to should be able to come to the US and live. That the borders should have no restrictions.
I agree but one more thing has to be changed in order for the borders to be open and free, the welfare entitlement programs have to end first. We cant afford the influx of new citizens under our current system.
So yes lets open the borders let everyone in I am for that, legalize drugs and the welfare state has to end.
If you care about immigrants and want them to join our country and make a life for themselves, which I do, then welfare has to end so that we can afford to give them a home.
MvGuy
April 30th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Yaa, Yaa…….YAA..!!! I agree 93%, more than I agree with "reconsidered" 21% But this new chimera of endorsements without percentile disclosures is a troubling at best and is mutiny at worst… It is not the content of "South of the Border" or "South of the Border Reconsidered", it is the sleazy way "reconsidered " has been presented……"Endorsed"…. What does "Endorsed" mean..?? It has the ring of disorganization… Who is "the" editor of antiwar.com, or are there many editors..?? Democracy is good to be sure, but when "endorsed" articles appear, we all will wonder is all those UN-endorsed articles were less valuable than these new endorsed ones…. But I want numbers!!! If the manager writes an article and asks me to endorse it, I think of my job as I consider the content. It has the tone of intimidation or rebellion… Not the sort of thing we want to see going on at antiwar.com.. Let me be clear, I am in favor of ALL opinion being expressed outside of time machine delusion.. The management of consensus within closed parameters as practiced by MSM is the REASON I am here. However there is something…well…unprofessional about doing a nose count on the merits of each and every piece of opinion.. Think where this will lead..?? The ship needs a captain, not a vote on every tact!!! It is NOT the end of the world here, but a very alarming danger signal… I don't wanna put on my conspiracy theory hat on this one… Doesn't antiwar.com endorse ALL it's content..??
MvGuy
April 30th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Yaa, Yaa…….YAA..!!! I agree 93%, more than I agree with "reconsidered" 21% But this new chimera of endorsements without percentile disclosures is a troubling at best and is mutiny at worst… It is not the content of "South of the Border" or "South of the Border Reconsidered", it is the sleazy way "reconsidered " has been presented……"Endorsed"…. What does "Endorsed" mean..?? It has the ring of disorganization… Who is "the" editor of antiwar.com, or are there many editors..?? Democracy is good to be sure, but when "endorsed" articles appear, we all will wonder is all those UN-endorsed articles were less valuable than these new endorsed ones…. But I want numbers!!! If the manager writes an article and asks me to endorse it, I think of my job as I consider the content. It has the tone of intimidation or rebellion… Not the sort of thing we want to see going on at antiwar.com.. Let me be clear, I am in favor of ALL opinion being expressed outside of time machine delusion.. The management of consensus within closed parameters as practiced by MSM is the REASON I am here. However there is something…well…unprofessional about doing a nose count on the merits of each and every piece of opinion.. Think where this will lead..?? The ship needs a captain, not a vote on every tact!!! It is NOT the end of the world here, but a very alarming danger signal… I don't wanna put on my conspiracy theory hat on this one… Doesn't antiwar.com endorse ALL it's content..??
MvGuy
April 30th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
The border being attacked is the unity at antiwar.com
MvGuy
April 30th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
The border being attacked is the unity at antiwar.com
jasonditz
April 30th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
The idea that somewhere around the 32nd parallel there's this imaginary line in the sand, and if you're born south of it you're an insidious infiltrator and if you're born north of it you're "one of us" is silly.
If Arizona's southern ranchers are to be protected from trespass the best way of doing so would be to allow the people traveling north across this line in the sand to use already available roads instead of having to sneak across the desert and, by the same token, sneak across private property.
Bob
April 30th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
Protobone I am friends with dozens of mexicans that have become citizens the proper way and what you wrote here is total and utter BS. Why is it necessary to exagerate and lie? Are you that desperate to make a point?
Mhstahl
May 1st, 2010 at 3:03 am
So, you believe in slavery. Great, so does Justin these days it seems, mores the pity. Look at all of these lovely calls for unprovoked violence, Justin, well done. Rothbard is standing up in his grave.
Mhstahl
May 1st, 2010 at 3:18 am
Work cheaper, or find another trade-using the state's guns to insure your wage is nothing better than theft, legalized but still immoral. Personally, I plan today to start a boycott of businesses who do NOT use 'illegal' labor.
I was born here too, W#^hole, stay out of my wallet.
Mhstahl
May 1st, 2010 at 3:25 am
Don't know about him, but I do. This is because I ought to have the ability to spend my money on labor, or rent my property, as I flipping well see fit-this is called freedom. Pretending you have a right to decide I can't hire someone from Guadalajara is a vicious affront to that. That makes you an enemy of freedom.
Mhstahl
May 1st, 2010 at 3:03 am
So, you believe in slavery. Great, so does Justin these days it seems, mores the pity. Look at all of these lovely calls for unprovoked violence, Justin, well done. Rothbard is standing up in his grave.
bogi666
May 1st, 2010 at 4:33 pm
uh huh
Bene_Tleilax
May 1st, 2010 at 3:49 pm
You are right, I should not have said "every single one". But most…
Walter Bedell Smith, co-founder Bilderberg Group
Allen Welsh Dulles, director Shroeder Bank
John A. McCone, VP Consolidated Steel
Richard Helms, advertising
James R. Schlesinger, Rand Corp. – probably the one who GAVE Israel nukes
William Colby, Wall Street lawyer
George H. W. Bush, I think everyone knows his background
Stansfield Turner, banker
William J. Casey, Wall Street lawyer and banker
William H. Webster, lawyer and Chairman of ABA Banking and Business Law
Robert M. Gates, Fidelity Funds
James Woolsey, lawyer, Booze-Allen
John M. Deutch, Citi Group, Raytheon, Tri-lateral, etc
George J. Tenet, investment banker
Porter J. Goss, CFR
…and they all have extensive connections with Skull and Bones or other ivy league old boys networks like Rhodes, directorships at various corporations (mostly banking), CFR, Tri-lateral, Bilderburg, Chatham House, etc and so on.
I won't even bother with the Deputy Directors…almost all of them are Wall Street butt boys of one sort or another. Not to mention the DNI's, the NSA rats, NSC scum, and so forth.
It's a freaking sordid list of dyed-in-the-wool plutocrats and empire loyalists that I wouldn't trust with a spud gun, never mind "intelligence".
Moco
May 1st, 2010 at 4:18 pm
"South of The Border Reconsidered" is strident refutation of the facts on the ground, simply because REALITY offends the delicate sensibilities of the political class, coctail-party-social-democrats, and effete theorists who don't actually have to reside or work for a living in the war zone. Must be nice, you freaking pussies!!!
Moco
May 1st, 2010 at 4:18 pm
"South of The Border Reconsidered" is strident refutation of the facts on the ground, simply because REALITY offends the delicate sensibilities of the political class, coctail-party-social-democrats, and effete theorists who don't actually have to reside or work for a living in the war zone. Must be nice, you freaking pussies!!!
Non-Interventionism
May 29th, 2010 at 7:39 am
Wow. "National Sovereignty"
What happened to being against the idea of the United States Government.
Do you think this will be the one government program to work?
I thought you were a principled libertarian but this seems like collectivism by even granting the legitimacy of the murderer-state of the U.S. but by advocating that it actually do more!
I am seriously disappointed to read all this.