A New York Times op-ed revealing the extent of the Bush administration’s extraordinary indifference to early warnings of 9/11 motivated former administration spokesman Ari Fleischer to tweet:
“Disgusting op-ed in NYT by a truther implying Bush knew of 9-11/let it happen. NYT decries lack of civility, then adds to it.”
An additional tweet reiterated the “truther” epithet and questioned why the Times was lending its pages to such a disreputable sort. Yet the author of the piece, Kurt Eichenwald, is a longtime mainstream journalist, coming from such venues as the Washington Monthly, the New York Times, and Conde Nast: he is a contributing editor to Vanity Fair and the author of several best-selling books on a wide variety of subjects. Eichenwald’s forte is investigative journalism, and his book, The Informant, was made into a major motion picture. This is hardly a portrait of a marginal figure sitting in his parents’ basement spinning out elaborate conspiracy theories: to my knowledge, Eichenwald has never published anything questioning the Official Story — and his article never says the Bush administration “let it happen.”
What it does say is that recently unclassified documents show an administration pushing back hard against CIA and other intelligence assessments warning of the impending attack:
“While those documents are still not public, I have read excerpts from many of them, along with other recently declassified records, and come to an inescapable conclusion: the administration’s reaction to what Mr. Bush was told in the weeks before that infamous briefing reflected significantly more negligence than has been disclosed. In other words, the Aug. 6 document, for all of the controversy it provoked, is not nearly as shocking as the briefs that came before it.”
Eichenwald describes two previously unknown briefs issued to the White House in May and June of 2001. The former described “a group presently in the United States” intent on carrying out a major terrorist attack: the latter forecast the strike as “imminent.” Eichenwald writes:
“But some in the administration considered the warning to be just bluster. An intelligence official and a member of the Bush administration both told me in interviews that the neoconservative leaders who had recently assumed power at the Pentagon were warning the White House that the C.I.A. had been fooled; according to this theory, Bin Laden was merely pretending to be planning an attack to distract the administration from Saddam Hussein, whom the neoconservatives saw as a greater threat. Intelligence officials, these sources said, protested that the idea of Bin Laden, an Islamic fundamentalist, conspiring with Mr. Hussein, an Iraqi secularist, was ridiculous, but the neoconservatives’ suspicions were nevertheless carrying the day.”
The neocon pushback was so relentless the CIA had to counterattack with a memo denying bin Laden was engaged in a “disinformation” campaign — as the neocons claimed. All through the summer of 2001, Eichenwald relates, a series of presidential briefings practically pleaded with Bush to take seriously the threat of an impending strike by al Qaeda — to no avail. The CIA had lost the internal debate, and the neocons nixed any action that might have taken out Mohammed Atta and his boys. Eichenwald has the inside scoop on the reaction from the intelligence community:
“Officials at the Counterterrorism Center of the C.I.A. grew apoplectic. On July 9, at a meeting of the counterterrorism group, one official suggested that the staff put in for a transfer so that somebody else would be responsible when the attack took place, two people who were there told me in interviews. The suggestion was batted down, they said, because there would be no time to train anyone else.”
The real story of 9/11 has yet to be told — this in spite of the 9/11 Commission report, the congressional hearings and court cases, and the endless literature on the subject. That’s because a lot of the background documentation has been missing. As new internal documents become available, the very thin Official Narrative, aside from taking on a bit more heft, is bound to change in potentially significant ways. This isn’t “trutherism” — it’s how history unfolds.
The Fleischers of this world would dismiss as “trutherism” any such rethinking in light of new evidence — but what about the documents Eichenwald cites? Fleischer’s smear is meant to evade precisely this question: is the former Bush spokesman denying the documents exist, or that they say what Eichenwald says they say?
The “truther” epithet is meant to obscure an important distinction. It is one thing to claim the World Trade Center was struck down by an alien space ray commandeered by Dick Cheney (who, by the way, is really a Space Alien!): it is quite another to cite presidential briefings and other documentary evidence showing a concerted effort was made within the administration to effectively block any meaningful action which might have stopped the 9/11 hijackers.
It’s interesting how Fleischer immediately interpreted this to mean the Bush administration “let it happen,” as if it had been planned that way. Getting a bit defensive, now aren’t we?
Yet this idea that some people had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks has been part of the atmospherics attached to the subject from the beginning, and is not confined to “truthers.” In December 2001, Fox News ran a four-part series of reports by Carl Cameron claiming the Israelis were following the trail of the hijackers in the US, and must have had some inkling of what they were up to. “How could they not have known,” says Cameron, citing a US intelligence official.
It is hardly inconceivable some Bush administration officials had access to this intelligence — in all likelihood the very same neocons who did everything they could to divert attention away from bin Laden and focus the government’s attention on Saddam Hussein. While there is no evidence for this, the opportunity to gather it has not exactly been forthcoming: since no one has been held accountable — not a single federal employee was fired as a result of the 9/11 investigations into governmental incompetence — the proper venue has been lacking. Add to this the opacity surrounding the events that led up to that fateful day. As Cameron reported in the first few minutes of his four-part Fox series:
“Since September 11, more than 60 Israelis have been arrested or detained, either under the new patriot anti-terrorism law, or for immigration violations. A handful of active Israeli military were among those detained, according to investigators, who say some of the detainees also failed polygraph questions when asked about alleged surveillance activities against and in the United States.
“There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9-11 attacks, but investigators suspect that the Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are ‘tie-ins.’ But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, ‘evidence linking these Israelis to 9-11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It’s classified information.’”
Slowly but surely, the real story will be declassified, leaked, or otherwise revealed. The truth will come out in time: until then, anyone who dares question the Official Narrative is derided, ironically, as a “truther.” To which the only possible response is to note that the opposite of a “truther” is a liar.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Up Against the FBI – May 23rd, 2013
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013





John
September 11th, 2012 at 9:31 pm
How many steel structures before and since 9/11, have collapsed due to fire? The answer is none. The PNAC and the usual suspects, Wolfawitz, Perle, Cheney, stated that they needed something like a Pearl Harbor to galvanize the American people. It stinks, Justin.
John
September 11th, 2012 at 9:31 pm
How many steel structures before and since 9/11, have collapsed due to fire? The answer is none. The PNAC and the usual suspects, Wolfawitz, Perle, Cheney, stated that they needed something like a Pearl Harbor to galvanize the American people. It stinks, Justin.
John
September 11th, 2012 at 9:31 pm
How many steel structures before and since 9/11, have collapsed due to fire? The answer is none. The PNAC and the usual suspects, Wolfawitz, Perle, Cheney, stated that they needed something like a Pearl Harbor to galvanize the American people. It stinks, Justin.
Qualtrough
September 11th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
The fact that nobody in the intelligence or military community lost their job for this massive intelligence failure is probably because the government didn't want them telling the truth about how they HAD warned everyone and about the interference the author describes.
baz
September 11th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
most of the classified documents relating to israeli involvement with 911, including FBI arrest and interrogation records of so called israeli "art students", have already been destroyed. most were destroyed soon after Michael chertoff took over homeland security and let all the detained israeli spies go back to israel. 200 known and previously detained israeli agents all left for israel within 20 hours of eachother soon after being released….
jrs
September 11th, 2012 at 11:29 pm
The truth will get out there slowly I suppose. With a government ever more committed to secrecy it's going to be slowed down a lot though.
davidgrayling
September 12th, 2012 at 12:15 am
I wonder if Julian Assange will one day get his hands on the secret documents that exist regarding 9/11?
Perhaps that's the reason why the Yanks are so anxious to get hold of him, to disappear him in case he finds them and publishes them and lets the world see what really happened!
As one person on my blog commented, if the Yanks got done by some terrorists then they deserved it. After all, they have killed millions of innocent people!
woodlandsguy
September 12th, 2012 at 12:46 am
Anyone who can find the time should watch the outstanding video documentary entitled "Explosive Evidence." It was made by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a group of about 1700 well-qualified architects and engineers, all with advanced degrees from reputable institutions. It shows that the 3 buildings that went down at the World Trade Center on September 11 were brought down by controlled demolition. This video documentary can be purchased over the Internet at http://www.ae911truth.org.
woodlandsguy
September 12th, 2012 at 12:46 am
Anyone who can find the time should watch the outstanding video documentary entitled "Explosive Evidence." It was made by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a group of about 1700 well-qualified architects and engineers, all with advanced degrees from reputable institutions. It shows that the 3 buildings that went down at the World Trade Center on September 11 were brought down by controlled demolition. This video documentary can be purchased over the Internet at http://www.ae911truth.org.
Yonatan
September 12th, 2012 at 1:06 am
The Israelis were aware that Atta and the others were up to something. They probably thought it was going to be a conventional hijacking. They were as surprised as anyone (and overjoyed as evidenced by the dancing Israeli agents) when the planes struck the building and even more so when the damage caused resulted in the collapse. They then knew that the US could be easily led (as Netanyahu has boasted) in the right direction.
Yonatan
September 12th, 2012 at 1:09 am
How many buildings have been struck by several hundred tons of metal and fuel travelling at hundreds of miles per hour? is a more truthful question.
mickperry
September 12th, 2012 at 1:39 am
If we are to believe Gore Vidal's account, then Cameron is getting it wrong here. Vidal maintains that both Presidents Putin and Mubarak issued warnings in advance of the attacks, and that three members of Mossad also travelled to the US to warn the government that “.. something unpleasant might come out of the sky in our direction”. http://www.democracynow.org/2012/8/3/gore_vidal_r…
mickperry
September 12th, 2012 at 1:39 am
If we are to believe Gore Vidal's account, then Cameron is getting it wrong here. Vidal maintains that both Presidents Putin and Mubarak issued warnings in advance of the attacks, and that three members of Mossad also travelled to the US to warn the government that “.. something unpleasant might come out of the sky in our direction”. http://www.democracynow.org/2012/8/3/gore_vidal_r…
Yonatan
September 12th, 2012 at 1:56 am
One other thing. 911 was an excuse for the US gov to do what had long planned to do. The US Patriot Act was rammed through in a very short time – the document must have been pre-planned. Given that the US gov is now working alongside al Qaeda in Syria, AQ was clearly not important other than as a justification for pre-planned action that 'everyone could agree on'.
Tim
September 12th, 2012 at 3:02 am
It is my undestanding the Twin Towers were designed to sustain just such an impact. Anyway, th jet fuel does burn hot enough to melt steel. Why was the public lied to about the structural design of the Towers? And of course there is Building 7, a 47 story skyscaper that collapsed at virtual free fall speed into its own footprint. A building that has sustained asymmetrical damage and cannot collapsed symmetrically. It had all the hallmarks of a controlled demolition. Neither FEMA nor NIST have been able to explain how the building came down the way it did.
Graham
September 12th, 2012 at 3:04 am
Only two on 9/11 so what brought down World Trade Center Building number 7? Two planes but three buildings collapsed, I would like to know why.
Tim
September 12th, 2012 at 3:06 am
The Maine, Pearl Harbor, Operations Northwoods, does anyone see a pattern here? Gee I wonder why some people suspect the government let it happen. Follow the money and asky Who benefits? That is how one investigates a crime. Anyway, DOJ never accused OBL of taking part in the 9/11 attacks. Their spokesman said they couldn't because they didn't have enough evidence. Hmmm, Funny that
James
September 12th, 2012 at 4:07 am
Yeah because Building 7 was the reason we went to war in Afghanistan. :rolls eyes:. Seriously do you watch the news? It was the act of the planes flying into the WTC that got Americans angry and gave the Bush Administration cover for their wars, not Building 7 collapsing.
James
September 12th, 2012 at 4:10 am
In answer to your question:
"…while building 7 wasn't hit by an airliner, it was hit by the large perimeter columns of the Tower collapse. It was 400 ft away but the towers were more than 1300 ft tall. As the tower peeled open, it easily tilted over to reach building 7."
http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
Toba
September 12th, 2012 at 5:05 am
Enough with this already! Maybe you folks should look up the engineering aspects of the Twin Towers. It wasn't designed to sustain the impact as the poster stated above " several tons of metal and jet fuel travelling a such a rate".
solly
September 12th, 2012 at 7:46 am
Yonatan, you are a Hasbaran.
MvGuy
September 12th, 2012 at 7:50 am
Thank You mickperry for that little pep talk from, the irascible Vidal………… I especially loved his riff on'conspiracy…….. 'And if you say that on TV watch out…….. It means you believe in Martians'
Conspiracy…??? What does it mean…???
Speaking about conspiracy..?? What does it tell us that candidate Rommy has TWO (the two Michaels) "advisers" who were BIG players in the 911 non-conspiracy as Vidal may have put it….
Vidal claims there were lots of warnings…….. But Rommy adviser Michael Hayden (Tortuire aficionado and 911 evidence destruction non-apologist) was head of NSA prior to and on 911…You know NSA, the signet spy shop… the BIG ear of our govmnt… And for hearing NOTHING does he get fired..?? No.. Demoted…??? Sorry, he was PROMOTED to the TOP JOB in intelligence… DIA … AKA the director of the CIA….. Did ANYONE get fired for the "failures" on that day…?? If the "failures weren't really failures….. ?? What then…?? PS.. The other 911Michael (Rommey adviser) is Chertoff, the one that let the NJ 911 connected terrorists walk…. Its here: http://www.opednews.com/duncan_0090304_NJ_terrori… P.S.— Chertoff is the architect of DHS…. the scrotum, strokers… at an airport near you…
MvGuy
September 12th, 2012 at 7:50 am
Thank You mickperry for that little pep talk from, the irascible Vidal………… I especially loved his riff on'conspiracy…….. 'And if you say that on TV watch out…….. It means you believe in Martians'
Conspiracy…??? What does it mean…???
Speaking about conspiracy..?? What does it tell us that candidate Rommy has TWO (the two Michaels) "advisers" who were BIG players in the 911 non-conspiracy as Vidal may have put it….
Vidal claims there were lots of warnings…….. But Rommy adviser Michael Hayden (Tortuire aficionado and 911 evidence destruction non-apologist) was head of NSA prior to and on 911…You know NSA, the signet spy shop… the BIG ear of our govmnt… And for hearing NOTHING does he get fired..?? No.. Demoted…??? Sorry, he was PROMOTED to the TOP JOB in intelligence… DIA … AKA the director of the CIA….. Did ANYONE get fired for the "failures" on that day…?? If the "failures weren't really failures….. ?? What then…?? PS.. The other 911Michael (Rommey adviser) is Chertoff, the one that let the NJ 911 connected terrorists walk…. Its here: http://www.opednews.com/duncan_0090304_NJ_terrori… P.S.— Chertoff is the architect of DHS…. the scrotum, strokers… at an airport near you…
Strider55
September 12th, 2012 at 7:53 am
Justin, comparing Dick Cheney to space aliens is a gross insult . . . to space aliens. Please issue an apology forthwith, lest some green-skinned, pointy-eared creature with Internet access and a bad temper zap you with his ray gun.
MvGuy
September 12th, 2012 at 7:58 am
The 911 commissiuon was NOT allowed to interview the perps…. or those who were questioning them..
Don't worry ……the truth will come out during the CLOSED, censored, time delayed audio….military commissions… HAHAHAHAHAHAHA…
Seeing Chertoff and Hayden as two of the four Rommy advisers tells me we will never know the truth……
When the ones with the most to lose are standing there at the very TOP of American Governance…
We have been bought and sold…. USING money stolen/scammed from, US…….. Done Deal..!!
charles caruso
September 12th, 2012 at 7:59 am
Hold your hat when the truth comes out!
andy
September 12th, 2012 at 8:14 am
The truth, if it was revealed, would be unbelievably horrific and evil. That is why the public eye is blind. Not because we couldn't find the truth if we wanted to, but that the hint of what that truth would be is something we will refuse to believe.
Graham
September 12th, 2012 at 8:45 am
The North Tower collapsed at 1028 hours, Building 7 came down at 1720hrs, eg very nearly 7 hours later, I don't remember the videos showing such a slow motion fall of a major column, it would have been quite something if it had done.
MoT
September 12th, 2012 at 8:50 am
Bingo! You win the prize. This alone tells you everything: that after countless billions spent on "defense" that on the day it should have worked it, and those who have profited for decades, it all FAILED! If defense is purely reactionary, after the fact, then what in the hell is it good for? Also, as stated, all those who should have been tied up and swinging from the lamp posts for their failures were rewarded for their failure! Only in America.
MoT
September 12th, 2012 at 8:52 am
Except it's hard for the public to refuse something that's not being put out for critical investigation in the first place.
PEACE EVER AFTER
September 12th, 2012 at 9:06 am
The truth is known in certain circles within the Mossad and the neo- cons in the GWB administration. I doubt it will be revealed to the public in our lifetimes.
kiaskx
September 12th, 2012 at 9:31 am
I would like to believe in your faith that "Slowly but surely, the real story will be declassified, leaked, or otherwise revealed", but I'm skeptical (at a minimum, the "slowly", as in "glacial", needs emphasizing). Most Americans are still waiting for the real story of the Kennedy assassination to be told. It took 80 years for the truth to come out about not only the Lusitania carrying munitions and therefore being a legitiimate target of war but also that President Wilson knew about it. I'm afraid the truth about 9/11 may only come out posthumously, that is, after our collective passing in a 9/11-presaged global conflagration.
Generalissimo X
September 12th, 2012 at 9:36 am
i was there. 22 cortlandt street. google map it. the media's outright distortions of what transpired that day are epic beyond belief. there were HUGE explosions going off before each tower collapsed. you could hear them, the ground was literally shaking. many of these are recorded on audio and video tape. the buildings did not "collapse", they were pulverized into dust. they all (3!) fell at free fall into their own footprint. steel does not melt or lose tensile strength from jet fuel. it is IMPOSSIBLE that all floors pancaked at the exact same time in the exact same way. this doesn't even account for the complete destruction of the buildings support core which all the steel framing was hung. watch the architects for truth video where they use the scientific method to completely destroy the official fairy tale. and any at this point who'd believe the gov't, the same serial liars that brought you the myths of gulf of tonkin, operation northwoods, the pat tillman fable, the jessica lynch fable, the wmd fable, or even the obl fable is a sad pathetic rube. yeh, arabs in cave did that. what a absurd, obscene joke.
George
September 12th, 2012 at 9:38 am
The pieces of the 9/11 jigsaw puzzle are becoming ever clearer. The neocons and the Israelis somehow knew the 9/11 plan in advance and tried to steer it to their advantage. You had Israel (via the "Israeli Art Students" and the "Israeli Movers") running direct interference for al-Qaeda on the ground in the weeks and months leading up to 9/11. Then you had in the halls of power the neocons running interference for al-Qaeda with the CIA's counter-terrorism division. You think maybe some of these guys thought to make a little money off the attacks by investing in put options on airline stocks prior to 9/11? You betcha!
Watson
September 12th, 2012 at 9:44 am
Much as I hate to admit it, I agree, Toba. The buildings were designed to withstand a hit from small planes and helicopters (news, traffic, police, sightseeing). No one expected a big commerical jet liner flying at such a low altitude over NY skyscrapers. I don't think there is any building which could have withstood that impact.
Drizza
September 12th, 2012 at 10:16 am
Even if he did do you think our mainstream media will turn patroitic and report it?
jrs
September 12th, 2012 at 10:21 am
Well Wikileaks has a website …
Andrew Johnson
September 12th, 2012 at 10:21 am
It is one thing to write in an article: "The “truther” epithet is meant to obscure an important distinction. It is one thing to claim the World Trade Center was struck down by an alien space ray commandeered …"
It is quite another to actually check the referenced link and find that "alien space ray" is what the writer injected into the article. It is also another thing to completely omit the actual evidence of what happened and how that evidence was put into a science fraud case in 2007: http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/NIST/Qui_Tam_W…
What a shame the author cannot fairly describe the evidence and facts but has to resort to emotive and inappropriate phraseology. Some of these 'tactics' are discussed in my free e-book: http://tinyurl.com/911ftb
baz
September 12th, 2012 at 10:53 am
1) jet fuel can not melt steel, even at its hottest, otherwise the components of jet engines would melt while in flight
2) those buildings were designed and rated to withstand earthquakes several thousands of times stronger than the force of impact of a jumbojet hitting them.
perhaps you should talk to an engineer
More on the 9/11 Anniversary (and other news…) » Scott Lazarowitz's Blog
September 12th, 2012 at 11:20 am
[...] Justin Raimondo: 9/11: Our Truth, and Theirs [...]
PEACE EVER AFTER
September 12th, 2012 at 11:30 am
The establishment and their controlled MSM will fight the "truthers" tooth and nail . Thus it will be a long time before the truth is revealed.. The U.S.S.Main, Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, Kennedy assination, 9/11 all involved some kind of conspiracy. The later two involved the Mossad and other co conspirators..
jeff_davis
September 12th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
John, Tim, Baz, Truthers all,
It has been said so many times. Stop wasting people's time. You don't know what you're talking about. You are technically clueless. You see that word? No, not "clueless", but "technically". You made your life choices, and it wasn't the study of science. So please, give it up. Leave it to those who know about these things, and stay quiet and listen. Flapping your faces about technical subjects, when you lack even a grain of competence in that field, should embarrass you into silence. Why has it not? Why are you not ashamed to flaunt your world-class over-the-top stupidity. "Stupidity", because, though you start with ignorance, as do we all, but then you "professionalize", joining a cult of utter nonsense where, in the joy of fellowship, you feed, cultivate, grow, and spread like a carrier of some disfiguring disease, a giant pile of crapola. It's the dance of the turd worshippers.
Stop wasting other people's time, stop infecting others with a love of ignorance.
Regarding the over one thousand "Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth": there are a million and a half architects and Engineers in the US. That means that fewer than one in a thousand join in your stupidity.
But not me, a veteran of Physics and Mechanical Engineering at Berkeley.
Put this behind you. Get on with you life, and never mention it again.
jeff_davis
September 12th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
Here's the answer"
http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/11/28/debunking-…
though I don't know why I bother, as you Truthers seem impervious…. to the truth
jeff_davis
September 12th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
Won't matter, we have the internet.
San Fernando Curt
September 12th, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Wow. A fine article left unread by the fanatics out there. Nevertheless, they've certainly popped from the woodwork to comment. I've pointed this out before, but one of the most devastating effects of the bust-out stupid "truther" movement is that it practically moots any doubts about the official line. Question the story? You're a lamebrain truther. As you've spent years pointing out, there ARE questions about who knew what when, and clear indications Israelis were following the hijackers long before that day. In this light, can we suspect the Pentagon and White House neoconservatives of deliberate treason by detouring attention from the plot? Did they do so in order that the disaster take place? Surely, this should be investigated, since so many of these bastards retain considerable power. But, again, such suspicion falls under rubric of "truther" and is dismissed. We need more real investigation, less science fiction.
jeff_davis
September 12th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Well qualified, my arse! There are more than a million and a half architects and engineers in the US. Less than one in a thousand advertise their technical incompetence by joining the Truthers.
I'm an alumnus of UC Berkeley, in physics and Mechanical Engineering, with 40 years of experience since. The Truther fantasy is junk.
The 911 commission report is also junk, but in that case it's not junk because of any "inside job", but rather junk because it was crafted to cover the Bush/Cheney et al willful negligence in ***ignoring*** the threat, despite ample warnings.
jeff_davis
September 12th, 2012 at 1:04 pm
"They were as surprised as anyone.." I think they knew the whole plan, and the "art students" were there to follow the plan as it developed. The "art students" were all over fed and state law enforcement and experts in electronic eavesdropping. My guess is they were monitoring to see if investigative agencies were catching on.
I have zero proof, but I would sure like to see all the docs regarding the art students, particularly those in the Mossad files. Perhaps some time in the future…
musings
September 12th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
If it looks like a duck and quakes like a duck, then calling it a crow is a lie. Buildings are imploded all the time (though none on such a scale until then, I would think). You don't get pulverization without explosives. I think if they could have pinned the explosions on Saddam like they tried to do the anthrax, then it would have been a good old New York Twofer. Instead, time was needed to create the false connections in the mind of the public between "al-Qaeda" and Saddam. They sure did try with that bogus crop-duster story and the contact anthrax on a "hijacker" 's leg. But it was enough merely to float rumors and get the public hot and bothered about its daily mail delivery. That brought it all home, so to speak, and then Colin Powell shaking that magical bottle of white powder – priceless. But I digress. Some will never forget – their first realization that they were under attack in acts of terror and perfidy.
jeff_davis
September 12th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
" What does it tell us that candidate Rommy has TWO (the two Michaels) "advisers" who were BIG players in the 911 non-conspiracy as Vidal may have put it…. "
So far it appears he's a superb tactician, so I hope it means that he understands "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
Romney seems to be employing a masterful strategy. On most things he's not saying where he stands. This allows everyone to project onto him whatever they hope he will be. This is largely what Obama did, promising change and stringing us along on the basis of our hoping he would be what we wanted him to be. 'Course now we know better.
jeff_davis
September 12th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
"You were there", and Sarah Palin could see Russia out her window.
So you're qualified, too?
Big fires cause various items to explode. Get a clue.
jeff_davis
September 12th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
Though currently impossible to prove, this is how I see it. Plausible at the very least, but I come down on the side of "probable".
Paul Hart
September 12th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
Jeff Thomas, maybe you ought to take your own advice and not speak…The establishment exists for the sole purpose of furthering itself. I could give a f-ck about your university degree.
woodlandsguy
September 12th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
Have you seen the video documentary?
musings
September 12th, 2012 at 3:22 pm
"Popping out of the woodwork"? I take that as a slur against almost everyone responding at this sight. Since you identify so much with San Fernando and probably LA, and I actually grew up in the White Wing too – the O.C. actually – I will say that when I first saw open big city corruption in Boston it shocked me. New York has been orders of magnitude worse. Officials (and priests for that matter) do bad things, consciously, deliberately and with sociopathy. They did it in So.Cal. too, but suburbanites didn't walk down the street and see it under their noses.
Lots of bad stuff happened as a result of 9/11 including high crimes of officeholders. Whether these crimes were only the tip of a much bigger iceberg is the question in many minds.
There are engineers and scientists who do not buy the collapse theory of the towers. They have more scientific reasons for their disbelief in the hastily-assembled official conclusion. Some of these scientists do not have to get paid by the US government, being Canadian or Swedish. But they know an implosion when they see one.
There were many lies told to get us into Iraq also. The "Second Pearl Harbor" simply opened the door to the oil there. One theory is that Peak Oil, Hubbert's Peak, had long predicted the end of the age of easy oil. This would be a powerful justification for any false flag event – with a "lesser evil" justification. The assertion of American supremacy is another way of hanging on to the resources. Finally, we can see the desperation in the mining of oil shale and the fracking all over the country, in spite of threats to ground water that only the desperate would try. There just isn't enough fossil fuel to promote infinite growth.
But you must have grown up in So.Cal. Where did all those oil wells at the beach go to, huh?
And wasn't Saddam doing something mentioned in Chinatown-II (or maybe Kuwait was), which set off Gulf War I under Daddy Bush – "Whip-stocking"?
Hey, it's – it's ….. Chinatown.
Tim
September 12th, 2012 at 3:27 pm
While the US government's conspiracy theory doesn't hold up to scrutiny, it is more comforting than than other more plausible conspiracy theories. Remember to doubt the official narrative does not obligate one to explain what did happen. The US government provided a narrative which should then be examined. The job of the American people is to interrogate the government and make them produce the evidence for their extraordinary claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. To date, the Feds have not provided any evidence.
WTC 7 is the Achilles Heel of the offiicial narrative. No matter how badly damaged, a buiding that suffers asymmetrical damage cannot collapse symmetrically. WTC 7's collapse was most likely a controlled demolition because IT LOOKED JUST A LIKE A CONTROLLED DEMOLITION.
San Fernando Curt
September 12th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
I know you have a point in there, somewhere, but like truther conspiracy theories in general, you've overcomplicated to point of opacity. Impossibly enormous plots and supernaturally efficient cover-ups are as likely as Milli Vanilli winning a Grammy next year. Occam is mostly right, you know.
Curious
September 12th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Neocons were for a New Pearl Harbor. It makes me wonder if these agents of Israel would be privy to what Israel knew (if it knew about the attacks before hand). They wouldn't want Israel implicated if it did. They didn't let their opportunity for war with Iraq be stopped by facts. They invented facts in the Office of Special Plans. In a few months they may be back in power (shutter). They are modern day sophist.
The full truth will come out someday I hope.
Curious
September 12th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Neocons were for a New Pearl Harbor. It makes me wonder if these agents of Israel would be privy to what Israel knew (if it knew about the attacks before hand). They wouldn't want Israel implicated if it did. They didn't let their opportunity for war with Iraq be stopped by facts. They invented facts in the Office of Special Plans. In a few months they may be back in power (shutter). They are modern day sophist.
The full truth will come out someday I hope.
Generalissimo X
September 12th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
there were explosions before the impact of both planes. the lobbies of both buildings were completely destroyed and gutted. they were on fire and that had nothing to do with the impact. as for "big fires", you''re a joke. i know what i saw, i know what i heard. it wasn't from big fires..
your condescension is appalling and pathetic. you're a know it all and that's shameful. rather than learn from someone who actually was there and a first hand witness your "expertise" at berkeley qualifies you to ridicule what you have no direct experience of. i guess all the fireman who lived my block and heard and felt the same thing while inside are stupid crazies too. i guess they need awesome degrees from berkeley.
Sean
September 12th, 2012 at 7:05 pm
http://www.ae911truth.org/
Generalissimo X
September 12th, 2012 at 7:10 pm
yeh, berkeley. impressive. home of john torture memo yoo…i'm surer you're as good at engineering as he was at constitutional law. 40 years..yeh, you're also relevant and not fixed in your sad, myopia of a deluded old man. the gov't murdered people that day, willfully and knowingly. deal with it gramps.
Generalissimo X
September 12th, 2012 at 7:10 pm
yeh, berkeley. impressive. home of john torture memo yoo…i'm surer you're as good at engineering as he was at constitutional law. 40 years..yeh, you're also relevant and not fixed in your sad, myopia of a deluded old man. the gov't murdered people that day, willfully and knowingly. deal with it gramps.
Oswaldwasalefty
September 12th, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Not true. The Windsor Tower in Madrid in 2005:
Oswaldwasalefty
September 12th, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Not true. The Windsor Tower in Madrid in 2005:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4MjsVnasLA&fe…
Only top steel frame only floors collapsed. The rest of the structure was concrete reinforced and didn't collapse:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TorreWindsor1.J…
It took 20 hours for the steel to weaken enough to finally collapse. The building structure also wasn't weakened by an airplane colliding with it.
Oswaldwasalefty
September 12th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
The Bush administration gives themselves away by their post 9/11 response. They went about attacking Afghanistan in much the same way that Obama led the attack against Libya last year. From the air without an invading army on the ground. Like with Afghanistan, we can already see that boots are most definitely headed for the ground in Libya. It will never be as large the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq, but they'll set up at least a few military bases to coordinating drone attacks and whatever local proxies they can hire,.
One of the urban legends created by the 2003 invasion of Iraq was the propaganda line that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11. I think this was the Bush administration's way of rewriting history and trying to make it look like they were onto something with their obsession with overthrowing Hussein. It was an attempt to cover up the fact that they were caught with their pants down on 9/11 and weren't prepared for it. Even after 9/11 many of the neocons wanted to go after Iraq right away. It took another year and a half for them to finally get around to it. By the time they did they had done a lot to give the false impression that Hussein had something to do with 9/11.
musings
September 12th, 2012 at 7:59 pm
Did I say super complicated? Why does that have to be? You are the one who did. But you know what, all the crap we heard about Saddam and his WMD-that-didn-t-exist took us into a super complicated war with the mythologizing readily done to order by journalists who love to sit close to seats of power, whoever holds them. Now that was a plot – to get into Iraq. I hope you don't think it was anything else. The question is – why do I give a rat's ass about Iran. But soon, it looks like, everyone will be sure they are out to get us and we must strike first (as we did with Iraq). That's the plot. And if it makes me a truther for saying so, make the most of it.
musings
September 12th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
So what you are saying is, that in the interests of propaganda and a justification for a pre-emptive war (for both regional power – i.e. finishing off Gulf War I, which they could not do before, and for achieving the effect of seeming to be very powerful and decisive as politicians), Bush and Company, as well as his neocon advisors, spent a year falsely connecting dots no matter how insecure and frightened the American public might be due to their operant conditioning with the colored threat levels and the WMD nightmare scenarios. The anthrax, which turned out to be a domestic terror attack, was actually embraced by them as proof of a (phony) connection between al-Qaeda and Saddam. Reviewing this time, I can see that the public was treated like dirt, but that is nothing new for people who cheat at every turn. I think we all have to ask ourselves soberly why sociopaths like that hold the reins of power even today, and why we let them push us around. That's the real question, as it would be if they were some other imperial power, from the Habsburgs to the Romanovs to Hitler to Stalin — why put up with it? Aren't we worth more than they are? I mean really.
john
September 12th, 2012 at 9:41 pm
And let's go back in history to remember the Levon Affair and the Attack on the Liberty. They got away with these atrocities, so why did the Israelis not think they could get away with facilitating the attack on the World Trade Center? They could come out tomorrow and admit it and they still would have the politicians genuflect in their presence. It's all about the money, and think of how much of that foreign aid money comes back in the coffers of American politicians.
miyauchi12
September 12th, 2012 at 9:48 pm
Justin has always misunderstood or twisted the facts about 'truthers'.
The basic premise of "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11" by David Ray Griffin is that either the government was responsible for 9/11 to some extent, or they were criminally irresponsible and yet nobody was made to pay. This latter point is very important.
While consistently portraying 'truthers' as antisocial no-hopers, Justin has essentially adopted the core position of Griffin, who isn't an antisocial no-hoper anyway.
Much as I enjoy the vitriol that Justin rightfully pours on the heads of the unjust, it seems peculiarly unfitting in this case when he appears to be attacking people whose position is little different from his own.
Although Griffin caused a huge distraction with his other questions, his initial question "How come nobody was made to pay?" still requires an answer.
nineoneone
September 12th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
My condolences to the families of the victims of this violent tragedy. I cannot bring your family members back as much as I would like too. I'm sure that we as a nation could never miss them as much as you do. I cannot imagine your pain for your loss, nor can I imagine the suffering for all those who survived. I can only hope that our country, being that we are founded on the rule of law laid out in our Constitution will bring those who aided and abetted this tragedy and injustice to stand for their wrong.
James
September 12th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
You realize that you are saying the Bush administration, the most incompetent in modern American history, is responsible for the most effective terrorist operation in history. And as a false flag operation perhaps the greatest conspriacy in human history, executed perfectly within 9 months of obtaining power. That is what you are suggesting. If the US government were that competent I may sleep easier at night, but it isn't.
James
September 12th, 2012 at 10:14 pm
I doubt you were there. if so produce the audio and video you say recorded it, produce other eyewitnesses. You are just a guy on the Internet, paranoid and delusional.
Oswaldwasalefty
September 12th, 2012 at 11:47 pm
They could have been honest and said we're invading Iraq to show the world that we must be obeyed. Who would have stopped them?
Hitler and Stalin never had military power at their disposal that was unchangeable. Washington does for now and there is no indication its military dominance is coming to an end.
Crazy Horse
September 12th, 2012 at 11:57 pm
Help us understand this conundrum, Jeff Davis. Above you deride the "truthers" because they are not technically qualified to comment. Here you present us a report by Alexander Cockburn, decidedly not a scientist, as the definitive "truth."
Now you may tell me he includes technical references. Sure, as do the AE911Truth.org folks. They have very well documented testimony from scientists, engineers, architects – many of them quite respected from the likes of Yale, Rice, and so on …
Keep on questioning, folks. It is right to do so.
Crazy Horse
September 13th, 2012 at 12:16 am
Ah, you went to Berkeley. Well hell, why didn't you say so? I forgot that those who have attended Berkeley are to be believed in all cases on all matters.
Buddy, professionals in all fields disagree – perhaps especially those with many years of experience. You only reveal your own ignorance by telling us to ignore the testimony of thousands and accept the testimony of one. Yours is an ad hominem attack – no more – under the banner labeled "science." Oh wait … Berkeley. I forgot.
Yes, there are a statistically small number. And? Has every single engineer and architect in the world examined the evidence? And of those who have, do you think some may be afraid to speak up?
Stop brow-beating people. It's ugly. And not helpful.
JonR
September 13th, 2012 at 1:36 am
@jeff
By your logic, if you saw a million people marching on Washington to protest the wars, you would dismiss this as unimportant because, clearly, there are 300 million people who did not march and are, thus, obviously in favor of the wars. That you try to browbeat people with your alleged advanced degrees, while at the same time, pushing such a basic logical fallacy, is truly cringeworthy.
In any case, the fact remains, that the official story (NIST report) is that the buildings collapsed as a result of fires. And there is no previous case in history of steel-framed skyscrapers collapsing this way as a result of fires.
JonR
September 13th, 2012 at 1:41 am
The simplest explanation is that all three buildings were loaded with explosives and were supposed to be blown up after the planes hit. For some reason, a plane failed to hit the third building, but they had to blow it up anyway, since it was not feasible to surreptitiously remove all the explosives fast enough. Then they had to come up with some sort of explanation of how the building came down when it hadn't even been hit by a plane. Of course, it's pretty thin, so basically they rarely mention the third building.
JonR
September 13th, 2012 at 1:48 am
I would venture to bet that more than 1 in a thousand of those people have doubts about the official story. The reason they do not join ae911 truth and sign the petition and so on has nothing to do with not wanting to "advertise their technical incompetence". Most people will avoid something controversial like that. In any case, the basic argument that ae911truth is one in a thousand is utterly fallacious. You obviously think that if a million Americans march against the wars, it is meaningless because "obviously" the other 300+ millions favor the wars. This is a basic logical fallacy, to simply presume that anybody who does not come out openly against something must be in favor of it.
Jacques
September 13th, 2012 at 3:07 am
Excuse me, but since when did "truth" (as in "truthers") become a pejorative? To seek the truth is now somehow a sign of delusion? From now on, perhaps we should call those who buy the government fable about 911 "deluders" – because that's what they invariably are.
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 3:28 am
A simple solution to this so-called debate:
The 24 core columns in the original WTC 7 were W14 X 730s, and the ones in the lower floor levels were either reinforced with heavy steel plates welded across their flanges, or with even heavier steel plates welded between them. A W14 X 730 with none of these continuous reinforcing plates weighs 730#/lineal foot, measures 22.42" in depth, has a 215 sq. in. cross-sectional area, a web thickness of 3.070", and 2 flanges that are 4.91" thick by 17.89" wide. Here's one being cut the way it's typically done in a fabricating shop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c2o8k4n9CY
As the video indicates, it took 7 minutes and 32 seconds with a large band saw and an abundant supply of water. (cont.)
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 3:28 am
A simple solution to this so-called debate:
The 24 core columns in the original WTC 7 were W14 X 730s, and the ones in the lower floor levels were either reinforced with heavy steel plates welded across their flanges, or with even heavier steel plates welded between them. A W14 X 730 with none of these continuous reinforcing plates weighs 730#/lineal foot, measures 22.42" in depth, has a 215 sq. in. cross-sectional area, a web thickness of 3.070", and 2 flanges that are 4.91" thick by 17.89" wide. Here's one being cut the way it's typically done in a fabricating shop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c2o8k4n9CY
As the video indicates, it took 7 minutes and 32 seconds with a large band saw and an abundant supply of water. (cont.)
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 3:28 am
A simple solution to this so-called debate:
The 24 core columns in the original WTC 7 were W14 X 730s, and the ones in the lower floor levels were either reinforced with heavy steel plates welded across their flanges, or with even heavier steel plates welded between them. A W14 X 730 with none of these continuous reinforcing plates weighs 730#/lineal foot, measures 22.42" in depth, has a 215 sq. in. cross-sectional area, a web thickness of 3.070", and 2 flanges that are 4.91" thick by 17.89" wide. Here's one being cut the way it's typically done in a fabricating shop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c2o8k4n9CY
As the video indicates, it took 7 minutes and 32 seconds with a large band saw and an abundant supply of water. (cont.)
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 3:28 am
A simple solution to this so-called debate:
The 24 core columns in the original WTC 7 were W14 X 730s, and the ones in the lower floor levels were either reinforced with heavy steel plates welded across their flanges, or with even heavier steel plates welded between them. A W14 X 730 with none of these continuous reinforcing plates weighs 730#/lineal foot, measures 22.42" in depth, has a 215 sq. in. cross-sectional area, a web thickness of 3.070", and 2 flanges that are 4.91" thick by 17.89" wide. Here's one being cut the way it's typically done in a fabricating shop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c2o8k4n9CY
As the video indicates, it took 7 minutes and 32 seconds with a large band saw and an abundant supply of water. (cont.)
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 3:28 am
(cont. from previous)
Since Richard Gage and his "800 engineers" claim that all 24 of them were secretly cut with explosives in a second or so on 9/11/01 in Manhattan, along with 57 others weighing a mere 500#/lineal foot, please urge them to get some W14 X 730s and W 14 X 500s, the explosives or incendiaries they think were used, and to stand the steel up and sever it with them, documenting the entire process on video with sound.
That would truly be a "new and independent investigation," and the last we heard from them about secret C/Ds in NYC.
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 5:06 am
When have "truthers" ever been truthful, or honestly sought the truth?
ex: http://www.jod911.com/There_Are_No_Missile_Defens… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4&lr… https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/RyanFraud1…
Please feel free to explain how Box Boy, Ryan, and other 9/11 "truth movement" luminaries got 6.5 or 6.6 seconds for the WTC 7 facade collapse.
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 5:06 am
When have "truthers" ever been truthful, or honestly sought the truth?
ex: http://www.jod911.com/There_Are_No_Missile_Defens… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4&lr… https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/RyanFraud1…
Please feel free to explain how Box Boy, Ryan, and other 9/11 "truth movement" luminaries got 6.5 or 6.6 seconds for the WTC 7 facade collapse.
Nelson_2008
September 13th, 2012 at 5:18 am
Anyone, such as yourself, who supports the official theory that "fire" brought down the WTC towers, has a threshold duty to explain how it happened that imposter Hymie Brown somehow got himself on National TV on 9/11, got himself falsely introduced as the "architect" and the "Project engineer" of the towers, and then went on to make a series of demonstrably false statements in support of the "kosher" version of events. Then, when people started asking questions, Hymie Brown fled to Israel. Do you want to be taken seriously? Then let's hear your compelling exculpatory explanation as to what happened here.
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 5:40 am
If you ever bothered to read NCSTAR 1A, you'd know that the damage to the SW corner columns in WTC 7 was not a factor in the ~5:21 PM collapse. It's simply common sense that a global collapse of a hi-rise, regardless of what caused it, will "Look Just Like a Controlled Demolition": http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/911NutPhysics…
What else would it look like?
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 5:40 am
If you ever bothered to read NCSTAR 1A, you'd know that the damage to the SW corner columns in WTC 7 was not a factor in the ~5:21 PM collapse. It's simply common sense that a global collapse of a hi-rise, regardless of what caused it, will "Look Just Like a Controlled Demolition": http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/911NutPhysics…
What else would it look like?
Nelson_2008
September 13th, 2012 at 5:41 am
Let's do a different experiment. Let's have you buy an expensive house somewhere. Then let's have you call the local TV station and tell them your house is burning down, an hour before you torch it. Then, let's have you burn the house down. Then lets have you and your family get caught laughing and cheering and celebrating and taking pictures as the house burns down. Then let's have you go on TV and tell obvious lies about it. Then let's have you hire an imposter to go on TV and tell lies about what happened to your house. Then let's have you hinder and obstruct an investigation and haul the debris away before the state police fire marshall can properly examine it. Then lets have you try to collect the insurance money on the house. Then lets see what happens to you.
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 6:05 am
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 6:11 am
Let's see how quietly you can explosively sever 24 of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c2o8k4n9CY
They supported the core of WTC 7, and weigh 730#/lineal foot, measure 22.42" in depth, have a 215 sq. in. cross-sectional area, a web thickness of 3.070", and 2 flanges that are 4.91" thick by 17.89" wide. The 57 perimeter columns weighed a mere 500#/foot, and "truth" industry legend has it that all 81 of these columns were secretly cut in a second or so.
musings
September 13th, 2012 at 6:11 am
With all due respect for your position, I think the magnitude of 9/11 and its effect on our political system puts it well beyond the initial crime that it was. Yes, one of the purposes of applying punishment is to take revenge in favor of the victims, and I agree this has yet to happen fully. But being a survivor or a family member of a victim is only one way of being affected by the event and its aftermath, as we all know. Damaged people strike out in revenge – like the man with the 9/11 tattoo who took out his anger for it on worshippers at a Sikh temple. We did things on a grander scale – we took it out on Iraq. The fact that we were led to do such a thing, and filled with righteous indignation (as Americans still are at a Moslem world they understand little about, but are willing to hurt and destroy), shows the far-ranging impact and use of propaganda to get us to "take it to the enemy." We are not the people we once were. We are poorer, with less economic hope, with less expectation of where we are going, and more than willing to serve our masters even as they threaten more 9/11's if we don't submit to TSA and don't allow them more money to spend on wars. We are a very injured people, well beyond the specific victims of that day. It isn't a matter of one party or the other being the solution – although obviously we don't have the same hysteria as we did under Bush. It's a matter of learning to function with a very skeptical cast of mind towards all the people at the top who can send American troops into harm's way or into the way of harm.
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 6:12 am
Read this: http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=8…
Generalissimo X
September 13th, 2012 at 6:15 am
first of all, just start googling explosions on 9-11. you doubt i was there? yeh, sure, if that makes you feel better. i worked at a place called blackwell's information services located at 22 cortlandt st. i took the R train to work everyday from steinway st. in queens to the corltandt. st. station. sorry, i was not videoing that day, what with no camera and literally trying to survive. i lived in nyc for 18 years, and moved out last year for a new job. there are hundreds and hundreds of people downtown who know this…the firemen know this, but i have to sit here and type to a loser like you who calls me delusional. you're are the one who is delusional. you disregard an eyewitness, call me a liar and insane because what i'm saying doesn't fit into your sad pathetic cnn experience. dick cheney used a line a few years ago that comes to mind right now.
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 6:16 am
Let's not change the subject to the "Dancing Israelis" myth. Simply blow up some W14 X 730s and we'll see whether it's possible that ~40,000 people working at GZ for nearly 8 months just might have noticed a suspicious-looking column end.
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 6:18 am
No pulverization without explosives? Almost all of it in real C/Ds is caused by gravity: http://science.howstuffworks.com/engineering/stru…
Strider55
September 13th, 2012 at 6:35 am
It doesn't require incompetence to stand aside and let something happen. The 9/11 hijackers were here for at least a year or two, meaning the plot was hatched during the Clinton regime. Also recall that Clinton refused multiple offers from Mideast governments to take custody of OBL. One can easily imagine the briefing Bush received from Clinton a few weeks before the inaugural:
"Sometime later this year — either late summer or early fall — there will be a shocking terrorist attack on US soil, resulting in thousands of deaths. All you need to do is ignore the warnings the CIA, FBI and others give you and let events run their course. Then you can assume dictatorial powers call your opponents traitors and launch that Iraq war your neocon buddies have been wanting for years — all with the sheeple waving flags and cheering you on. Play your cards right and you can ride the hysteria to a second term, the way I did with the Oklahoma City bombing!"
If 9/11 was a false-flag op, it transcended parties and administrations.
Strider55
September 13th, 2012 at 6:35 am
It doesn't require incompetence to stand aside and let something happen. The 9/11 hijackers were here for at least a year or two, meaning the plot was hatched during the Clinton regime. Also recall that Clinton refused multiple offers from Mideast governments to take custody of OBL. One can easily imagine the briefing Bush received from Clinton a few weeks before the inaugural:
"Sometime this year — either late summer or early fall — there will be a shocking terrorist attack on US soil, resulting in thousands of deaths. All you need to do is ignore the warnings the CIA, FBI and others give you and let events run their course. Then you can assume dictatorial powers, call your opponents traitors and launch that Iraq war your neocon buddies have been wanting for years — all with the sheeple waving flags and cheering you on. Play your cards right and you can ride the hysteria to a second term, the way I did with the Oklahoma City bombing!"
If 9/11 was a false-flag op, it transcended parties and administrations.
Generalissimo X
September 13th, 2012 at 6:36 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6alf9_xswA
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 7:32 am
Examine this: http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessa…
http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/accountsofw…
http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessa…
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 7:32 am
Examine this: http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessa…
http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/accountsofw…
http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessa…
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 7:34 am
Do you like the new security at airports? How would it have gone over before 9/11, and who besides al Qaeda knew that suicide hijackers would crash planes into buildings?
musings
September 13th, 2012 at 10:02 am
I would imagine that some floors are no-go in a building that size. You don't go "noticing" things when it isn't the environment you work in and to floors to which you have no key.
albury
September 13th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
The debris pile wasn't a "no-go," and explosively-cut columns would have been impossible to miss.
Generalissimo X
September 13th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
you are aware that most of the steel was carted away and melted down, much of it sold to china and india right? true forensic analysis of the steel was made virtually impossible. the crime scene was quickly scrubbed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XwVP0cMH7E http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanu…
Generalissimo X
September 13th, 2012 at 2:36 pm
here's one for all you engineers and geniuses. please tell me how not even large bone fragments survived the crash but within minutes of investigation they found mohammed atta's passport in the rubble? no, they couldn't find anything as big as a telephone key pad in the wreckage but this passport made it through the inferno. i'm sure any who would swallow this also believe in magic bullets.
Nelson_2008
September 13th, 2012 at 6:10 pm
LOL! Did you conduct a personal survey of everyone who might've seen anything suspicious? Did you send questionnaires out? Let's say someone saw something. What then, Junior? For comparison, millions of people noticed that "Obama" has a fraudulent birth certicicate, who should they notify? Someone found out that Hymie Brown is an imposter. Who should they notify? Someone pointed out that Silverstein lied about talking to someone from the Fire dept. about pulling the bldg. Who should they report to? (BTW, are ya' still workin all the forums e.g. opednews?
Nelson_2008
September 13th, 2012 at 6:37 pm
LOL! Firstly, why would it need to be "quiet"? Second, if "fire" can destroy the structure, why can't "concentrated fire", i.e., thermite?
heath
September 13th, 2012 at 7:04 pm
the buildings were designed to take a hit from a 707.
heath
September 13th, 2012 at 7:19 pm
so how come buildings 4, 5 and 6, directly under buildings one and two didn't collapse like building 7? they are battered and bashed but the their frames are intact. There are lots of things like that which poke holes in the Official story.
James
September 13th, 2012 at 9:30 pm
Again, you are just a guy on the Internet, I could say I was there as well…so what. Even if you were, eyewintess accounts are usually inaccurate, especially in emergency situations. You still remember everything from that day clearly, with the chaos and confusion at the time, 11 years later? Maybe, but you don't have any other evidence so yeah I take what you say with a heavy grain of salt.
I use logic, not delusions, ever heard of Occam's Razor? The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. What you suggest (your conspiracy) would require hundreds, if not thousands of people to pull off. I'm not buying it because someone would have talked by now.
guest
September 13th, 2012 at 9:37 pm
I don't know who did 9/11. I don't think anyone does who wasn't in on it, or at least in on the coverup. I DO know something about who DIDN'T do 9/11 (which category most emphatically includes Osama and his nineteen boxcutter dudes, and everyone anything like them). And that's enough.
James
September 13th, 2012 at 10:08 pm
It was not Atta's passport but Satam al-Suqami's, and it was not found minutes later but months later and several blocks from the rubble. 0 for 3. Most likely the passport was caught in a vacuum when the plane crashed and blown away by the wind.
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 2:47 am
Perhaps you should read NCSTAR 1 and 1A (gee; what a concept…). The melting of steel is not a factor in any NIST WTC collapse hypothesis.
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 2:50 am
They weren't built like WTC 7. (duh)
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 2:53 am
Try listening to answers once in a while. http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=9… http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=8… http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=8…
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 2:59 am
You obviously are unaware of the fact that cleanup at the WTC site took nearly 8 months, during which an estimated 40,000 different people handled or looked at the debris. What "true forensic analysis" is required to notice hundreds of columns cut with explosives or melted with incendiaries?
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 3:07 am
Progressive-Tough-Liberal Rob banned me at OpEdNews for not drinking 9/11 "truth movement" Kool-Aid, as do most "forums" run by you true believers. Many FDNY were among the ~40,000 people who worked at GZ, so why do you think I'd need to send them questionnaires if they found out that more than 300 of their colleagues were killed by secret explosives? A blind man would have seen a column severed by explosives, and your "researchers" claim that hundreds or even thousands of them were.
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 5:10 am
None except for these and many others, John: https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/firesafety…
Claiming that the PNAC document stated a need for another Pearl Harbor's just one more outright lie.
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 5:10 am
None except for these and many others, John: https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/firesafety…
Claiming that the PNAC document stated a need for another Pearl Harbor's just one more outright lie.
Jackearly
September 14th, 2012 at 5:20 am
New, previously classified documents are now revealing the truth about 911? Who are they trying to fool? The truth has been sitting out in front of them in plain sight for a decade while they ignored it/buried it and lied to the people. Now seeing the inevitable, they slowing start leaking NEW info in order to hedge against the gallows. Much too little and certainly much too late.
Our Truth, and Theirs « ACGR's "News with Attitude"
September 14th, 2012 at 6:55 am
[...] And now… the rest of the story. ….. Share this:FacebookTwitterDiggStumbleUponRedditEmailPrintLike this:LikeBe the first to like this. from → Corruption, Criminal Activity, DHS, Executive, FBI, FISA Act, Government, History, Legislative, Media, NeoConservatives, NSA, PATRIOT Act, Patriotism, Police State, Privacy Rights, Progressives, Propaganda, Sovereignty, States Rights, U.S. Constitution ← The Obamas: Take an Organizer Into Your Home No comments yet [...]
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 7:09 am
It was Satam al-Suqami's passport, not Atta's, and it was among the many thousands of combustible items ejected clear of the disintegrated aircraft and scattered for blocks around the North Tower after AA 11 crashed there at ~440 mph. Much of it was sheets of paper from the plane or the office areas that were hit, and since passports are not only very distinctive but also tough to ignite in a split second, it survived the fires and was picked up by a passer-by who gave it to the police. This all occurred before either tower collapsed, and the passport itself was of very limited evidentiary value, so please feel free to explain why you think it was magical.
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 7:17 am
The collapses you posted were obviously sped up by the troofer who made that compilation video, and none of the eyewitnesses being quote-mined for the word "explosive" ever said anything about demolition charges, or associated the sounds with any of the WTC collapses. Try being honest for a change.
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 7:19 am
There's no mention of wanting a New Pearl Harbor in the paper you referenced. Try reading it.
Lou
September 14th, 2012 at 8:14 am
What of the molten steel that stayed that way for over a week after the collapse? What of the steel that had a distinct cut of 45 degrees or so that remained? Also, the similarities of this and the Oklahoma City bombing are rather striking, such as the impossibility that one bomb could have done the damage and that all of the debris was carted away as quickly as possible, before being examined.
Dutch
September 14th, 2012 at 8:19 am
Nice, Jeff. Your misdirection almost worked. Digress the discussion into "qualifications" of the dissenters, which of course is a factless discussion. And one you can perpetuate forever without discussing the facts of the case.
Should you choose to deal in facts, you'd be forced to address 2000+F molten metal on the BASEMENT structural beams. And independently verified nanothermite residue. And the impossible collapse of the inner core structure in the context of the progressive collapse explanation. And the freefall speeds both towers collapsed at. And the multiple, independent reports of multiple explosions in the basement and sub-basement by VERY qualified first responders. And the removal and destruction of all evidence without forensic examination. And the intact 'terrorist passport' found in the rubble of a disintegrated 118 story building. And the failure of jet fuel to burn hot enough to melt steel. And the black smoke that indicated that clearly temperatures were nowhere near this.
So tell us with all your qualifications, what are the explanations for these unanswered, and widely verified facts. I promise we won't even question your qualifications. Just address them. I dare you…
Dutch
September 14th, 2012 at 8:31 am
Every 9/11 discussion comes back to what the CIA knew or didn't. What the CIA said or didn't. This is where the lies and misdirection live. Do you forget that the Bush family are 50 year CIA insiders? The CIA often doesn't even know what the CIA is doing. Do you think it would be hard for the Bushes to fabricate any type of CIA warnings, true or otherwise?
We need to move backwards from any scenarios where the CIA had any information about anything, and start looking at other pre-9/11 evidence. The CIA's primary tool is disinformation, and nobody is more versed in it's tactics than the Bushes. The alleged 'unheeded CIA warnings' are the red herring in all of this. There is a 50% chance that they were false, and thus a 50% chance that al-Quaeda, Bin Laden etc were not involved in any way, but merely as a diversionary story. These claims could have easily been 'planted' and given that the CIA, by design, doesn't put much in writing, never verified as true or false. Which they haven't been.
We need to widen the lens and consider all realities and possibilities, given that all of these official stories add up to a bunch of nothing…
Deuce
September 14th, 2012 at 8:36 am
Well said. The fact is, we all owe the world more than condolences. We need to repent for our complcity-by-willful-ignorance, and the damage it has caused worldwide, and take whateve action we can to right the wrongs that the fallout of 9/11 has caused worldwide.
"Condolences for obediently believing an obvious lie that led to the invasion of your country, theft of resources, and killing your innocent family".
Not gonna cut it…
alburysmom
September 14th, 2012 at 9:09 am
To be sure. There are many pictures of them and rampant suspicion. You need only Google them to find many pictures of columns with molten cuts. You can even find thermographs that show them still smoldering hot weeks later. Unfortunately independent testing of this debris was not allowed. The debris was moved to a secure location then shipped overseas. The people working on clearing the debris were not forensic chemists. Forensic chemists were not allowed access to the debris. I don't recall the cleanup crews carrying around analytical instruments.
What you present as assertions are simply denial and ignorance to verifiable facts. Are you this dumb, or purposely and willfully ignorant. Either way you are irrelevant…
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 9:53 am
It would need to be quiet because this is what C/Ds usually sound like: http://www.break.com/index/landmark_tower_demolit… http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demol…
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 9:53 am
It would need to be quiet because this is what C/Ds usually sound like: http://www.break.com/index/landmark_tower_demolit… http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demol…
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 9:55 am
Both towers actually did; it was the massive fires on sides away from the impact areas that finally brought them down: http://www.debunking911.com/Fire.jpg
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 9:58 am
We had no defense against hijacked planes being used as missiles that could possibly have done anything in the time given: http://cleartheskies.com/timeline.html
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 10:05 am
Tomahawk missiles after the 2 suicide bombings of US embassies in 1998 didn't work, and nothing was done in response to the suicide attack on the USS Cole in 2000, so if no WTC collapses had occurred because of the 9/11 suicide attacks, would the evil US just have sent al Qaeda a warning letter?
MvGuy
September 14th, 2012 at 11:50 am
"they were caught with their pants down on 9/11 and weren't prepared for it."
YEAH, That's why they had the Patriot act ready to go all 476 pages of it…
and when some KEY Senators objected, they got anthrax letters…… and it passed 98 to 1
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
I'm pretty sure it was found on 9/11, but I agree with you otherwise. It was pretty superfluous considering all of the other evidence identifying the hijackers. For some reason, aspiring martyrs don't want to be anonymous after the fact.
Our Truth, and Theirs - James Street - Further Right than You
September 14th, 2012 at 1:30 pm
[...] Read the rest of the article at AntiWar.com Category: Tyranny, US Politics, Warfare State | Tags: 9/11, Afghanistan, CIA, Iran, Iraq, Justin Raimondo, Military-Industrial Complex, NDAA, Obama, Pakistan, Pentagon, Romney, World Trade Center, WTC /* [...]
L_Tecolote
September 14th, 2012 at 3:39 pm
It's easy to understand why PNACers and others involved in planning, executing, or covering up the operation would stick to the party line and denounce anyone who threatens to reveal too much. Less obvious is why so many otherwise uninvolved people would denigrate efforts to go beyond the Official Story, to uncover the facts.
I believe it has less to do with sincere belief in the government's competence and truthfullness, and more to do with the nagging fear that if they were inescapably confronted with the fact that they'd been lied to, they'd be obligated to do something about it — and they're both lazy and scared — and they know it.
When somebody gripes about "truthers," they already suspect (or know) the truth, and they don't want to deal with it.
jeff_davis
September 14th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
Only the trailer. I'm not about to pay good money — or waste my time — to listen to a load of tortured logic. But lest you think I've missed the details, I remind you it's been 11 years now, plenty of time to get the facts straight.
jeff_davis
September 14th, 2012 at 4:05 pm
John Yoo wasn't even born when I went there, early 70's. Another impressive display of logic.
nineoneone
September 14th, 2012 at 5:19 pm
No where in our Constitution does it say you can take revenge out on the rest of the world. We have 365 days a year to be victims, we can at least let the dead and their families along with the survivors have one.
albury
September 14th, 2012 at 6:15 pm
What facts have you uncovered?
libertarian jerry
September 14th, 2012 at 9:30 pm
So whats new? The Maine blowing up in Havana harbor and being blamed on the Spanish,when it came out 75 years later that the Maine explosion was caused by a bunker fire and decomposing powder. The Lusitania sinking in 12 minutes during a torpedo attack in WW1., when it was proven later that the ship was carrying 200 tons of illegal munitions that blew out its bottom. The Japanese Pearl Harbor "sneak" attack that Roosevelt knew was coming,but allowed it to proceed because he wanted to get the U.S. into the 2nd World War. The Gulf of Tonkin incident which gave LBJ the excuse to attack North Vietnam that cost the lives of 58 thousand Americans. Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction,which never existed,but gave Bush the excuse to attack a country that was no threat to America and thus caused the deaths of thousands,many of them innocent women and children. How many false flag events has America staged over the years that has cost the lives of thousands and contributed to the bankrupting of the nation? Will we never learn.
albury
September 15th, 2012 at 4:20 am
Here are some you forgot:
http://articles.cnn.com/1998-01-08/us/9801_08_you…
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2011/12/sh…
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9511/saudi_blast/11am/
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/internation…
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/internation…
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/osama-bin-laden-…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/…
http://www.al-bab.com/yemen/cole1.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qloshSGAJ1s
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/af…
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/21/us-indo…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/oct/31/spain…
http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2012/07/lo…
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/samantha-lew…
The US is obviously so beloved in the world that it has to invent its own enemies. For what reason no one knows.
albury
September 15th, 2012 at 4:20 am
Here are some you forgot:
http://articles.cnn.com/1998-01-08/us/9801_08_you…
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2011/12/sh…
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9511/saudi_blast/11am/
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/internation…
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/internation…
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/osama-bin-laden-…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/…
http://www.al-bab.com/yemen/cole1.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qloshSGAJ1s
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/af…
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/21/us-indo…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/oct/31/spain…
http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2012/07/lo…
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/samantha-lew…
The US is obviously so beloved in the world that it has to invent its own enemies. For what reason no one knows.
albury
September 15th, 2012 at 4:28 am
Advanced degrees in what, and who's verified them? What papers have they released for peer review? Are any of them or their "research" even mentioned on the ASCE web site? The NIST WTC investigations resulted in 40 revisions to the 2009 and 2012 I-codes. How many building code revisions have been prompted by Richard Gage and his AE911"truth"?
albury
September 15th, 2012 at 4:33 am
Here's the petition for Erik Lawyer's "firefighters" for 9/11 "truth": http://firefightersfor911truth.org/?page_id=469
"Ctrl-f" search for the signatories to it who even CLAIM to be FDNY.
albury
September 15th, 2012 at 7:41 am
Do you geniuses really think that explosively-cut steel would not have been seen at GZ without chemical testing? Good grief…
albury
September 15th, 2012 at 7:41 am
Do you geniuses really think that explosively-cut steel would not have been seen at GZ without chemical testing? Good grief…
albury
September 15th, 2012 at 7:46 am
That's pretty simple, Lou. Just list all of the known C/Ds that have left molten steel in the debris pile, and all of the explosives or incendiaries that are capable of generating heat for that long (actually months).
The "distinct cut of 45 degrees" also had gray slag under it after it ran down and solidified. Oxyacetylene torches do that, but explosives don't, nor do incendiaries.
albury
September 15th, 2012 at 7:52 am
Here's another outstanding video on the topic: http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demol…
Unlike Gage's, it actually makes sense.
albury
September 15th, 2012 at 7:52 am
Here's another outstanding video on the topic: http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demol…
Unlike Gage's, it actually makes sense.
albury
September 15th, 2012 at 7:52 am
Here's another outstanding video on the topic: http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demol…
Unlike Gage's, it actually makes sense.
truther
September 15th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmeri…
Page 51
"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."
truther
September 15th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmeri…
Page 51
"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."
truther
September 15th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmeri…
Page 51
"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."
truther
September 15th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmeri…
Page 51
"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."
Chris Condon
September 16th, 2012 at 6:19 pm
I got around to watching your recommended video documentary. It made some good points, but didn't begin to deal with the totality of the evidence against the official version. It tried to deal with some of the truthers objections and did make at least one good point, but 90% of what the truthers have said was not dealt with at all. The documentary also made the grave mistake of dismissing Morgan Reynolds and James Fetzer as ignorant charlatans. I have never met either man, but I am told by friends who know both men well that both men are highly competent and of the highest moral stature. Neither man is infallible, of course, but It is absurd to dismiss these men as evildoers out to get publicity. I hope this helps. I still think we need a new investigation into 9/11. The official government investigation spent a measly $3 million, compared with, for example, the Iran Contra Investigation, which spent $50 million. $3 million on an issue of this magnitude is peanuts.
The Biased News Media » Scott Lazarowitz's Blog
October 8th, 2012 at 10:30 am
[...] policy analyst Justin Raimondo responds to the label of “9/11 truther” here. And if you are interested in the possible Israeli government involvement in 9/11, see this, this, [...]
Getting People to Question Long-Held Beliefs Is a Difficult Task » Scott Lazarowitz's Blog
January 4th, 2013 at 1:07 pm
[...] I believe that the truth is important. As Justin Raimondo noted, “the opposite of a truther is a liar.” And the government is full of pathological [...]
March of the Truthers | Independent News Hub
February 22nd, 2013 at 1:09 pm
[...] response is to note that the opposite of a “truther” is a liar.” - Justin Raimondo, “Our Truth, and Theirs,” September 12, [...]