New York Declares War on Iran
Why do you think they call it the 'Empire State'?
While speaking truth to power is not the sort of thing one expects the executive of a leading bank to indulge in, we’ll take it where we can find it. Here‘s the Group Director of the Standard Chartered Bank responding to the charges, leveled by New York State bank regulator Ben Lawsky, that SCB was involved in financial dealings with Iran to the tune of $250 billion:
"You f—king Americans. Who are you to tell us, the rest of the world, that we’re not going to deal with the Iranians?"
This, by the way, is cited in the complaint filed by the state of New York: Lawsky apparently thought it was incriminating enough to include. There is plenty of evidence this case has little to do with the sanctions, and more to do with bank protectionism: SCB is a British bank, and the city of New York is now engaged in a strenuous campaign to lure the high finance crowd away from London and back to the Big Rotten Apple. The Group Manager, who goes unnamed in the complaint, is asking the right question, which apparently Senor Lawsky isn’t prepared to answer – so I will.
We think we’re the center of the world: that’s what "American exceptionalism" is all about. Let’s say the Russian government decided that no one was to trade with, say, Italy, and the Duma passed legislation mandating economic sanctions. No one would pay the least amount of attention, except to mock the pretensions of the wounded Russian bear. When we do it, however, everyone is supposed to sit up and take notice. And of course they do: after all, the US is the epicenter of world financial markets, and New York is …well, where Wall Street is located. So the New York Department of Financial Services can act as if it’s the agency of a sovereign government, which in a very real sense it is. Aside from having one of the highest tax rates in the country, and aspiring to regulate the caloric intake of some of its residents, New York officials have lately moved to extend their reach internationally: the NYPD has sounded the alarm over the alleged "terrorist threat" posed by Iranian diplomatic personnel in the US:
"Mitchell Silber, the NYPD’s director of intelligence analysis, told Congress that Iranians may be using ‘diplomatic cover’ to conduct ‘hostile reconnaissance’ on America’s biggest city.
"Silber cycled a string of incidents where law enforcement questioned Iranians, who turned out to be working with the Iranian mission to the United Nations or otherwise tied to the government.
"He said the Iran-backed Hezbollah also has a presence in the New York area. ‘Iran and/or Hezbollah remain deeply committed to striking against Israeli and Western targets and they are willing to deploy a variety of methods in order to do so,’ he said, citing recent attacks ‘plausibly linked to Iran’ in Georgia, India and Thailand.
"’Given the recent alleged Iranian directed plot against a foreign diplomat here in Washington, Iran’s increasingly bellicose rhetoric and its recent as well as long history of sponsoring terrorist attacks abroad, the NYPD must remain vigilant in attempting to detect and disrupt any attack by Iran or its proxies,’ Silber told the House Homeland Security Committee.
"He said authorities have interviewed at least 13 people since 2005 with ties to Tehran who were seen taking pictures of city landmarks."
Almost no one from out of town takes pictures of New York City’s landmarks – like, say, the Statue of Liberty, or at some cultural event. Why, it’s unheard of! This is certainly suspicious behavior on the part of those Eye-ranians, and I’m glad the NYPD is taking time off from their important work of stopping and frisking non-white New Yorkers on the streets, and is on the job. What Officer Silber’s testimony lacks in geographical expertise – alleged Iranian activities in Georgia (no, not that Georgia!), India, and Thailand hardly make the case Tehran is "deeply committed" to blowing up the Empire State Building – is more than made up for in sheer gall.
Here we have a glorified state trooper acting as if he’s Henry Kissinger, making Profound Pronouncements on matters usually reserved for the US Department of State. In reality, Hezbollah – a Lebanese organization – has never targeted the continental US. If Silber is so concerned about suspicious foreigners taking photos in the New York metropolitan area, then what did he and his "intelligence" division do about these guys?
Lawsky exhibits the same sort of pretensions, describing SCB in the complaint as a "rogue institution" – you know, like Iran is a "rogue state" because it defies Washington’s imperial will.
New York state and city government officials seem to hold a grudge against the Iranians, although I can’t imagine why that might be. So determined are they to start a war with Tehran that they’ve even launched their own independent foreign policy. How long before Governor Andrew Cuomo inaugurates his very own State Department?
New York looms large on the national political scene, as Gen. Wesley Clark has pointed out, and New Yorkers are world-famous for their pushiness, and their brazen rudeness, not to mention the delusion that their own city is the center of the known universe. Isn’t it high time we non-New Yorkers pushed back? To paraphrase that SCB official:
You f—king New Yorkers. Who are you to drag us, the rest of the country, into yet another unjustified destructive and costly war in the Middle East?
If Cuomo, Lasky, and Silber want war with Iran, let them send the New York state National Guard over there and leave the rest of us out of it.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Up Against the FBI – May 23rd, 2013
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013





skulz fontaine
August 9th, 2012 at 9:30 pm
But but, Mr. Raimondo, New Yawk is home to the New Yawk Football Giants. You know, those New Yawk Football Giants that play in New Jersey? Oh damn and sorry I forgot, New Jersey is a New Yawk suburb.
Yeah, f*ck New Yawk and their midget mayor.
byrd_bahls22
August 9th, 2012 at 10:04 pm
Well, I'm certainly going to be more vigilant. Eye-ran scares the bejjezus out of me. As did Eye-rack. I couldn't sleep knowing that Zarkawi was still alive, and would be coming after ME ! Freedom was brought to the middle east, and this is how they repay us ? How dare they refuse an imperial boot heel in the forehead. Everyone on earth wants to be like Amurikka ! Hot damn ! Overweight, stupid, aggressive as all get out, friends with Israel. Some people just fail to "get" it ! :)
Debbie(aussie)
August 9th, 2012 at 10:53 pm
Sad to say but I agree with the statement made by that banker "You f—king Americans. Who are you to tell us, the rest of the world, that we’re not going to deal with the Iranians?"" Your govt sucks big time. Even sadder is that ours is racing to follow.
JLS
August 9th, 2012 at 11:28 pm
""You f—king Americans. Who are you to tell us, the rest of the world, that we’re not going to deal with the Iranians?""
This is the one guy who has asked the right question, the question that the whole world needs to seriously be asking. I'll answer it as well-we are aspiring to be the one world government and claim jurisdiction over every other nation. America is laying the foundation for a future world without independent sovereign nations and one centralized power that will make Hitler's Germany look like a sunday school picnic.
mark
August 10th, 2012 at 12:28 am
Thanx Justin. This was an important article.
The aggressive political actions by Israel-firsters in the global finance 'community' need to be examined. Like whatever Zionist-friendly regime rules in Washington, these pro-sanction fanatics are determined to bring Iran to its knees. Anyone who resists is a potential target. Israel operatives will stop at nothing.
Obama and Roment realize this, as do their handlers. That's why they are both racing to please their Israeli superiors. Sadly, both candidates show an eagerness to subordinate US interests if it pleases Israel. That's why a war with Iran is looming.
This level of Zionist power is a global danger.
Marcos
August 10th, 2012 at 2:15 am
Another acerbic article, Justin. Thanks.
You are a very talented writer, and public speaker. I just find it sad in the broader picture that your understanding of 'the left' is so slanted that you make no discrimination between left wing people who support Obama willy-nilly and those who do not, or even never have. The left seems to be, en todo – from your ideological position, either 'Democrats' or 'wannabe Democrats'. Except in your obituary for Alexander Cockburn, you have made – for example – not even one reference to the anarchist tradition in the United States, which today, particularly amongst the youth, is perhaps stronger than ever. Anarchists and libertarians might not exactly see eye to eye, but given our differences, we still share a lot of perspectives and analyses. Indeed, like libertarians, we are a very broad church.
There is not much point in trying to reach a consensus with the anti-war left, which is a stated aim of AntiWar.com, if you lump them all together to castigate them. Sure, get stuck into the Obamatrons and fair weather lefties – they deserve it – but acknowledge the people who do not fit that mould and indeed who form a good part of your audience. Sometimes I feel that you almost resent them. There are of course misunderstandings and prejudices about libertarianism amongst the left too, and this battle is difficult enough to fight without further friction been raised in a counter-productive manner.
I also have to say that I'm disappointed that AntiWar has not really covered the Wisconsin murders at the level that I believe it should have. I understand that there are people within the libertarian camp who are very partial to the idea of militias and see them in a romantic light which does not exactly accord with reality. Perhaps a focus on the assassin could have ruffled a few feathers amongst those libertarians who although not neo-nazi or white supremacist hold some sympathy with the assassin's DIY 'anti-government' motives. But in fact the murderer learned his trade in the US army, was doing something not exactly anti-government I'd guess in 'psy-ops', and was part of a deeply authoritarian and hate-filled sub-culture. Now I'm quite sure that if his mates ever got the chance of becoming the government's boot boys in some sort of fascist state of the future, they would quickly forget their 'anti-government' rhetoric and be just as happy to rub out anti-war libertarians as lefties or members of minorities. Sometimes we all have to confront the contradictions in our own beliefs and movements, and I must say I expected more of AntiWar, who do such an excellent job of confronting the truth in so many other areas.
I apologise if I appear to have drifted 'off topic'. I just had to get this off my chest. I want to make it clear that I'm not attacking anyone in the anti-war libertarian camp, least of all you, but just trying to provoke some internal analytic thought. Keep up the good work, Justin.
Justin Raimondo
August 10th, 2012 at 2:24 am
I have always respected old-fashioned Marxists, and have said so. Unfortunately, there aren't many left: Alex Cockburn was the best of the lot, and he's gone, sadly. I am interested in reaching out to left-anarchists, especially the youth, and if you go through my columns I think you'll see some examples. One comes to mind: a column "Go Left Young Man," I believe the title was.
The problem with what passes for the "left" today is that it has given up anti-imperialism, more or less, and replaced it with multi-culti victimology.
On the Wisconsin murders: I don't know where you get the idea that any libertarian would be sympathetic to the murderer. As far as I know, he was a neo-Nazi, not a member of any "militia." We didn't cover it because it is unrelated to our focus, which is on foreign policy matters (and, tangentially, civil liberties issues emanating from that).
johnUK
August 10th, 2012 at 2:36 am
SCB is a British bank, and the city of New York is now engaged in a strenuous campaign to lure the high finance crowd away from London and back to the Big Rotten Apple.
Like there is a difference between the British and American banking systems.
leighjay
August 10th, 2012 at 4:42 am
Is anyone really suprised especially since on August 1st a NYC judge awarded $6 billion to the families of Sept. 11, 2001 terror attack victims in their lawsuit against al-Qaida and parties in Iran. On some level I felt a bit bad since I originally thought that it was Iraq who had helped al-Quida. Oops sorry I'm sure we have it right now, unless of course it was Syria.
Smithboy
August 10th, 2012 at 4:49 am
Oh dear Lord, Iranians are taking pictures in New York!!!
More fear mongering from the same neocons who gave you the war to disarm Iraq of their WMDs. Silber and his questionable policies of targeting Muslims in NYC has lead to his departure, but he could not have existed without NYC's own Benjamin Netanyahu, Michael Bloomberg.
Interesting that NYC is investigating Muslims in NYC in fear of another terrorist attack when there has never been a sufficient investigation of the Israeli Art Students who apparently knew beforehand that planes would be flying into the WTC. Of course, those students (spys) weren't Muslims.
aguest
August 10th, 2012 at 4:50 am
"recent attacks ‘plausibly linked to Iran’ in Georgia, India and Thailand."
Ah yes, those attacks ineptly carried out early 2012, that the "community of nations" loudly proclaimed to be the work of the Iranian secret services.
Curiously enough, even though some of the (supposedly Iranian) perpetrators were arrested, no information, but absolutely no information whatsoever, has ever been released about it since then. The inquest has disappeared in a black hole. The events are not even mentioned any longer in the mainstream media.
Would that not be an interesting line of inquiry — figuring out what happened since those days, what is known, but that the powers that be refuse to advertise, and what could be behind those mysterious attacks? Especially since the whole commotion in Bulgaria (immediately attributed to Iran or Hezbollah), everything seems to have quieted down as well?
What is going on there?
Mark
August 10th, 2012 at 5:25 am
facts are irrelevant when ginning up a war
Mark
August 10th, 2012 at 5:30 am
"You f—king Americans. Who are you to tell us, the rest of the world, that we’re not going to deal with the Iranians?"
I'd like to know who actually said this and send them a thank you note. This whole notion that any law passed in a United States legislative body or Executive Order signed by the U.S. president is some how going to be enforced on every person on the planet is insane. So much for "the consent of the governed" I guess.
We citizens of the U.S. are unfortunately going to feel the wrath of the world for the imperialistic hubris of our "leaders". May God have mercy on our souls.
richard vajs
August 10th, 2012 at 6:02 am
You are not going to display this, but what the hell – New York might be the "Empire State" but Jesse Jackson also refered to NYC as "hymie-town" – of course, they hate Iran.
richard vajs
August 10th, 2012 at 6:02 am
You are not going to display this, but what the hell – New York might be the "Empire State" but Jesse Jackson also refered to NYC as "hymie-town" – of course, they hate Iran.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 6:06 am
You certainly don't need to "Love" Israel kid, and your admiration of Iran and their Iranian ways is well noted. BUT I dare you, I F-ing dare you , do go to Tehran and hold your boyfriends hand in public, and give him a peck on the cheek. Come on braveheart. You can go to Israel and french kiss your boyfriend in front of the knesset and protest whatever you want, they won't shoot.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 6:06 am
You certainly don't need to "Love" Israel kid, and your admiration of Iran and their Iranian ways is well noted. BUT I dare you, I F-ing dare you , do go to Tehran and hold your boyfriends hand in public, and give him a peck on the cheek. Come on braveheart. You can go to Israel and french kiss your boyfriend in front of the knesset and protest whatever you want, they won't shoot.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 6:06 am
You certainly don't need to "Love" Israel kid, and your admiration of Iran and their Iranian ways is well noted. BUT I dare you, I F-ing dare you , do go to Tehran and hold your boyfriends hand in public, and give him a peck on the cheek. Come on braveheart. You can go to Israel and french kiss your boyfriend in front of the knesset and protest whatever you want, they won't shoot.
San Fernando Curt
August 10th, 2012 at 7:24 am
Ah… Homosexual Tolerance Deficiency. Is there no end to Iranian iniquity? 'Course… by that standard, the USSR should've bombed holy hell out of us pre-1969, when American homosexuals routinely were rounded up and tossed in the jug. Countries develop at different stages, and that's understood for all – except Iran. Trying to see the logic. …Um… Nope.
ML3
August 10th, 2012 at 7:51 am
You gotta come up with something better than simply the fact they have a lower tolerance for the almighty homosexual community than the enlightened gov'ts of Israel and Western Europe to justify bombing and killing them by the thousands.
Only an insane idiot would go to war with a country because they persecute homosexuals. After that, I am sure their top priority would not be fighting back or re-building their shattered nation, but giving gay people equal rights.
Yeah, right.
ML3
August 10th, 2012 at 7:51 am
You trolls gotta come up with something better than simply the fact they have a lower tolerance for the homosexual community than the enlightened gov'ts of Israel and Western Europe to justify bombing and killing them by the thousands. Think of the small amount of the pop. that is actually gay. Not just in Iran, but every nation.
Only an insane idiot would go to war with a country because they persecute homosexuals. And surely, after the shock and awe Blitzkrieg, Iran's top priority would not be fighting back or re-building their shattered cities, but giving gay people equal rights.
Yeah, right.
MoT
August 10th, 2012 at 8:32 am
Framing the narrative. They're seeding the fields for further "stories" to plant the ideas into peoples heads that this has been going on for a long time. Curiously you're correct that these events have silently gone down the memory hole. All on purpose I would say.
MoT
August 10th, 2012 at 8:36 am
Ah! I get it. Boy on boy in Israel grants you mystical powers to justify killing anyone who is an "existential threat" while the opposite in Iran is cause for Armageddon. Alles klar.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 8:39 am
troll? So pointing out that JR would be strung from the neck on a crane for being into dudes in the terrorist theocracy is trolling? It isnt the truth? I never said Israel or USA ought to bomb the ayatollahs, you put those "words" in my mouth. You sir, are the troll.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 8:41 am
I didnt say that, I said exactly what I said. You mention bombing the ayatollahs, not me. I pointed out an INCOVENIENT truth about the 13th century theocratic terrorists in Iran. You have no idea whether I support war against those stink-bearded reprobates.
MoT
August 10th, 2012 at 8:42 am
Let me add my voice to the others calling for an award to this unnamed banker for clear headed thinking. There is more truth in those few words than all of Obamas snake oil salesmanship over the years.
ML3
August 10th, 2012 at 9:12 am
Awfully quiet about the 13th century monarchy in Saudi Arabia, though, aren't you? At least Iran has a Parliament and elected officials.
You are a warmonger. Go away.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 9:14 am
I guess the political correctness rules of this community here is you cannot be an anti-war libertarian and still point out that Iran is an ugly anti-libertarian repressive regime. and no, that Does NOT mean I would bomb them or not criticize Israeli policy. Grow up.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 9:17 am
so you can go back to your circle jerk without even a small challenge to your ridiculous position? to your very childish sensitivites? I am more anti-war than you junior.
telavivmarc
August 10th, 2012 at 9:19 am
#pinkwashing:
http://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-pin…
http://electronicintifada.net/comment/683
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/02/how-sarah-schulman-…
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/officially-the-pink…
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 9:24 am
i've posted 3 short comments, and you now know my views on every country in the world? you think you know anything about me? I know something about you now, I have you pegged actually as intolerant, blinded and clueless.
ML3
August 10th, 2012 at 9:27 am
And those Christians in Uganda and other African countries do the same thing to gay people. Where is your outrage for them? Wait, I get it, it only applies selectively. The offending nation has to be Muslim and only then if it isn't an "ally".
ML3
August 10th, 2012 at 9:29 am
Somehow with your childish name calling I doubt that. Stop projecting and being a hypocrite.
ML3
August 10th, 2012 at 9:31 am
Yeah you know something about me. LOL. Obviously from your -59 comment post rating, no one else really likes what you have to say either.
AngelaKeaton
August 10th, 2012 at 9:36 am
Islam: Helping Protestants nationalists, right wing Kahane Chai militants and Rick Santorum discover their deep seated need to protect the rights of homosexuals occasionally or whenever it intersects with their political interests since 2001.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 10:09 am
i called you a name? please quote.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 10:11 am
right and the ratings by the handful of people who have read what I wrote makes a major consensus. Wow you have tunnel vision man.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 10:16 am
I see your point, so it is fine then, let the mullahs string them up because hey, in Africa they do that too. You are UNABLE in your mouth – frothing Israel hatred, to even COMMENT on the oppression in Iran, They are UNASSAILABLE to you. All you do is attempt a diversion. Yes I condemn the killing of civilians and innocent people (gay or not) and in particular I condemn the oppression by religious leaders and governments. Clearly you do not. And yes the Israeli repression of people, particularly of Palestinians too
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 10:26 am
For clarity, I am a fan of JR. I do not agree with him on a few matters, but so what. I am not blindly pro Israel by any means, though I am of the zionist persuasion. I'd personally like to see a return to the 67 borders and a lot less US involvement/money in Israel, and vice versa. But bottom line, here is a simple thought-experiment type of question – would JR, if he had to do so, choose to live in Iran or Israel?
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 10:32 am
you say a God damned word about the dirty ayatollahs and their 13th century mentality here, wow the attacks come fast and hard. This is libertarian? Love a government that shoots its own people and represses any dissent? Oh and their "democracy" is even touted – right, and maybe Jong Un or whatever that scum bags name is, maybe the imams trade scrap book photos with him. I'm only for bombing them with the truth though. Peace.
Jaime
August 10th, 2012 at 10:37 am
The important thing for the criminals is the incremental gains. All of these psy ops are aimed at the sheeple; that is, before people can find out that one of these "attacks" is fake, they are taken out of the radar. But the effect has been accomplished; in other words, the imprinting in the minds of the gullible that Iran is evil and is plotting to destroy the world with their "nukes".
Jaime
August 10th, 2012 at 10:49 am
Why should Iran's society, or for that matter any other society, have the same customs than the US? That they have a lower degree of tolerance toward homosexuality? Probably and that's because it's a different culture. I may not like it but they are Iranians, and noone should tell them how to manage thier affairs. On the other hand, is US society perfect? Iran, for one thing, doesn't go around telling others what to do, and when it doesn't get its way, beats the hell out of the country. So for the rest of the world, which do you think we consider worse?
Strider55
August 10th, 2012 at 10:55 am
Ha-ha. And the New Yawk Football Jets play in New Joisey too!
But all is not lost in New Yawk sports. The New Joisey Nets have moved over to Flatbush. And the DamnYankees are back at the top of the baseball heap.
Strider55
August 10th, 2012 at 11:02 am
"Friends with Israel"? Nah, more like "on bended knee to Israel."
Given the substantial Jewish population in NYC, I suspect Lawsky, Silber & Co. are simply pandering to that voting bloc.
Strider55
August 10th, 2012 at 11:20 am
If you'd like to show your solidarity with SCB and its Group Director, buy a Liverpool FC jersey. SCB is the club's primary sponsor.
Just make sure not to wear it around any Everton fans. :-o
Strider55
August 10th, 2012 at 11:20 am
If you'd like to show your solidarity with SCB and its Group Director, buy a Liverpool FC jersey. SCB is the club's primary sponsor.
Just make sure not to wear it around any Everton fans. :-o
liberranter
August 10th, 2012 at 11:37 am
Even sadder is that ours is racing to follow.
I've never understood that either, whether it's the Australian or any other "allied" government. I can only surmise that there is some form of (CIA-wielded) "loaded shotgun to the back of the head" driving that trend.
liberranter
August 10th, 2012 at 11:44 am
a NYC judge awarded $6 billion to the families of Sept. 11, 2001 terror attack victims in their lawsuit against al-Qaida and parties in Iran
Another gem for the “You Can’t Make This Sh-t Up, Folks” file.
A purely –and laughably– symbolic gesture, given the utter idiocy in pretending that “Al Qaeda” is an actual organization with actual “assets.”
liberranter
August 10th, 2012 at 11:49 am
You have no idea whether I support war against those stink-bearded reprobates.
Given the wording of this response, it doesn't take a mind reader to figure out where you stand.
liberranter
August 10th, 2012 at 11:52 am
But bottom line, here is a simple thought-experiment type of question – would JR, if he had to do so, choose to live in Iran or Israel?
Just what the hell does this have to do with the topic of discussion, and why the hell would Justin –or anyone else– have to make a choice to live in Iran, Israel, or anywhere else on the planet to justify their opinion?
Watson
August 10th, 2012 at 11:57 am
The suicide-bombing of the Israeli tourists in Bulgaria a few weeks ago is also slipping down the memory hole. After a big headline where Israel claimed Iran and Hezbollah did it, not a peep further, not a shred of evidence shown, not even an identity for the perp.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
you simply won't answer the question. You kick and scream about the horrible question, horrors! but won't answer a simple question. Telling.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
and just to be sure you understand, because it seems you don't or won't, of course JR doesn't NEED to do anything. Its a "hypothetical" question, and it isn't to "justify" anything. sometimes a simple answer is possible to make without getting your knickers in a knot and all aggressive.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Hopefully where I stand with respect to the mullah-crats is clear, yes indeed.
Mark
August 10th, 2012 at 1:04 pm
Would you say that NYC had a "13th century mentality" when the Stonewall incident occured? As any good libertarian will tell you, Utopia is not an option. Targeting a country, regardless of its internal politics, with false accusations is quite un-libertarian. In fact, it seems as though NYC wants to get in on initiating force via fraud against Iran.
The good Ol' U.S. of A needs to tend to its own affairs, which at the current moment seems to have problems aplenty, and stop trying to run the planet. I have no desire to see elected officials in this country run MY life, let alone the lives of people in other countries.
goldhoarder
August 10th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy7FVXERKFE&fe…
just a matter of time
goldhoarder
August 10th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy7FVXERKFE&fe…
just a matter of time
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
wasn't the stonewall incident the beginning of a major gay rights movement? was anyone killed? Of course gays were oppressed and repressed in the good ole usa, but is a comparison with what goes on in Iran really fair?
Yes the USA should tend to its own affairs, I agree.
I hope the Iranians do not build a bomb, but I am not pro war by any means.
But here on this forum it is interesting how you get "bombed' for just mentioning the brutality of the Iranians against their own people. Like its totally irrelevant.
WashingtonDC Goddamn
August 10th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
War on Drugs, War on Terror, War on Cameras, War on Anyone.
WashingtonDC Goddamn
August 10th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Well I dare you to try to snap a photo of the Statue of Liberty in front of a New York cop.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
hey I am not defending USA government action either, its been a bad road the country has been on. but i never read a comment from an anti-israel "libertarian" here calling out the mullahs for violating human rights. seems to not matter here.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
yes, so you excuse the iranian stoning to death of teenager, of hanging homosexuals and of all manner of human rights abuses on the pretext that they are still "in development", they are a young zit faced teenager finding their way in the world. Funny you have a lot to say about my comment and get all your back hairs up and you say not a WORD about the savagery there RIGHT NOW. You talk about pre 1969 USA. Really.
truewest
August 10th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
To the guy who likes to refer to people's "13th century mentality" and identifies himself as of "zionist persuasian" might you please consider that Israel is really just a Disney theme-park based on a 3 thousand year old fantasy, propped up only by virtue of weapons of mass destruction and the theft of realestate. Tallk about living in the past!!!!
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Disney theme park, maybe. They've done a hell of a lot with place though, and sure a lot of folks hold your world view, which is why I hope they hang on to those weapons with a tight grip. You seem to think Iran is a great place you should go watch a stoning or two, I hear it draws a great big crowd. Maybe you'd pitch in ?
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
and yes, sorry to disagree with you, iranian justice is "13th century" and it is an oppressive regime. Defend them all you want, though all I hear is attacks on Israel here. Where's the flotilla to Syria, did you sign up for it?
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
I love the negative ratings here. The lower it goes the more I think I want to donate the next time Justin has a fund raiser. Clearly you people here need more of my inputs and challenges to your views, I wouldn't want this to go away and leave you to your own devices.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
I love the negative ratings here. The lower it goes the more I think I want to donate the next time Justin has a fund raiser. Clearly you people here need more of my inputs and challenges to your views, I wouldn't want this to go away and leave you to your own devices.
Jaime
August 10th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Silly question. I live in Peru and I wouldn't like to live in either place because I find both completely foreign to my customs and traditions. Surely, some wouldn't even dream of living in my country either and I can accept that. So your question proves nothing. However, from what I read, Iran may be less tolerant to homosexualism, but they seem to be more tolerant of religious differences than Israel (there is a thriving Jewish community there), something that the Jewish nation as they call themselves is not. Now my question: how do you prefer to be bombed: nuclear or biological? It's only a "hypothetical" question by the way.
San Fernando Curt
August 10th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
And it's job of the U.S. and all its militant might to make sure Iran lives up to our standards? No, it's not. But that's a false dilemma, anyway, isn't it? New York City, the Israel Lobby and much of our Congress don't give a damn about gays, teens or rights of women bound in chadors – any more than they do sacrificial Syrians pulped in that conflict's crossfire. We want to remove Iran as potent foe of Israel and impediment to our full subjugation of the Mideast. I'm not enough a hypocrite to gas-bag about victim rescue on the other side of the world. Terrible me.
truewest
August 10th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
To Mikeharry"done a hell of a lot" or would "alot of hell was done" be more accurate perhaps? And what is exactly my "world view", you're obviously a mind-reader, maybe you should serve in the IDF where you can predict the attack which is obviously goinf to come from Iran or is it Mars? An d if you had you're reading glasses on you would see that nowhere in my statement did I defend anyone…..I merely characterized the great Israel, where homosexuals can dance and french kiss outside of prisons that contain thousands of political prisoners including many many children…..I bet there have been a few stonings in those dugeons over the last 60 years!! (if you like I can critisize Iran, or Mars if you like…..but perhaps another day….)
Sam
August 10th, 2012 at 3:29 pm
A war with Iran would be insane.
Jaime
August 10th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
If the Iranians build a bomb, it's their affair. Or else everybody should disarm, no exceptions. When you mention Iran's butality, which exists if we are to believe the FCM, what is your point? To join the chorus of those who want to whack Iran? Why at this point? Isn't the NYPD brutal as well? Or the USG? Has Iran invaded anybody? I hope Iran eventually becomes more accepting of certain differences, but if they don't, will this endanger world peace? Has Iran's behaviour produced untold deaths, suffering and destruction all over the world? We can, if you want, discuss and even condemn Iran's domestic policies but to what effect?
james
August 10th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Hey Mike, Texas executed a mentally retarded guy last week. When will you as for regime change in Texas? Their vile culture is worse than persecuting gays.
truewest
August 10th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
Dear mikeharry, I too am a new contributor (I assume you are?)….so please keep those challenging inputs coming, by all means…..this is fun (but war isn't)….it's wonderful to see you defend the"right" of 6 million zionist zealots to own 300 nuclear weapons (the number thrown around these days…) without any accountability to anyone (except the thugocracy representing the israeli people at this time….)!!
truewest
August 10th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
Dear mikeharry, I too am a new contributor (I assume you are?)….so please keep those challenging inputs coming, by all means…..this is fun (but war isn't)….it's wonderful to see you defend the"right" of 6 million zionist zealots to own 300 nuclear weapons (the number thrown around these days…) without any accountability to anyone (except the thugocracy representing the israeli people at this time….)!!
Justin Raimondo
August 10th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
I've often thought about traveling to Israel, but I fear I wouldn't be welcome. Or even safe, albeit for a different reason than i would feel unsafe in Iran. I think we need to make a distinction between the character of a regime targeted by the West for regime change, and the issue of whether we ought to be going around regime-changing. There are many places in the world where the circumstances faced by homosexuals is precarious, and often fatal: are we supposed to "liberate" all these people? Perhaps we should start with Colorado. Send in the troops! Right?
WashingtonDC Goddamn
August 10th, 2012 at 4:30 pm
Condemning the actions of the US Govt and taking a non-interventionist stance are not the same as condoning the actions of murderous mullahs or oppressive regimes. When will the neo-con-pro-aggressives get that?
John V. Walsh
August 10th, 2012 at 4:50 pm
Having read your response and Justin's reply, I feel that as a card carrying Leftie and sometime contributor to CounterPunch since 2004 while Alex was at the helm, I should reply to you. Like Alex, I guess in some respects I am an old-fashioned Marxist.
Justin has been quite open to allying with lefties and Antiwar.com was a principle force behind http://www.ComeHomeAmerica.US which is an effort to forge such an alliance. I am a cofounder of that group. Sometime back I wrote to Alex that the problems of getting the two viewpoints together were enormous with reluctance on both sides. He replied that he had not noticed reluctance among libertarians and pales. And he was right. I find most pwogwessives (as Alex loved to call them) are quite reluctant to enter into such an alliance and more often than not respond with a real hostility to it That is certainly not true of all lefties but it is true of the watered down leftism of those who call themselves "progressives" and the doctrinaire sectarian grouplets. That constitutes the vast majority on the left; but I suspect you are not among them. I have not found that reluctance among the libertarians. In fact I find it possible to discuss any and all things with them without the arrogance and smugness so often found among the pwogs.
In developing the Left/Right alliance against war and the U.S. global military Empire, the work that you and I have cut out for us is enormous indeed. We should be quite please that we have allies like those at Antiwar.com and The American Conservative.
redwood
August 10th, 2012 at 4:58 pm
The Empire State used to be one of the thirteen colonies. Now, it's part of the United States of Aggression. Now the United Kingdom is a United States puppet. The United States is an Israeli puppet. They want war with Iran because they think sanctions aren't good enough. Same as in Iraq. They tell lies to justify war and kiss Israel's ass by giving them a never ending Marshall Plan.
gal
August 10th, 2012 at 5:51 pm
I don't hate Israel, I think Israel is a foreign country, thousands of miles away and should be treated as such. I do feel bad for the Palestinians and it would be nice if the two sides could reach their own agreement and be able to live together that stops the violence. America has too many bound alliances with foreign countries and I think this hurts us when trying to be diplomatic with so called "belligerent" countries. I don't care for Iran's government either, but then I don't care much for any government.
AngelaKeaton
August 10th, 2012 at 5:56 pm
Thanks for bringing up pinkwashing. Didn't realize how persuasive or pervasive it was until I signed up for EI and Mondoweiss. It comes in both the "pretend to care about LGBT people" and "pretending to be feminist" (e.g. Everyone from Laura Bush to sadly, Amnesty International) varieties.
It has devastating consequences. Please read: "Pictures at an Execution: Iran's hanging of two teenagers for sodomy sparked gay outrage and a yawn from the mainstream. Do Iran & America actually see eye-to-eye?" by gay publisher Bill Andriette. http://archive.guidemag.com/content/index.cfm?ID=…
gal
August 10th, 2012 at 6:23 pm
@mikeharry,
"You can go to Israel and french kiss your boyfriend in front of the knesset and protest whatever you want, they won't shoot."
What's funny about this statement is you would think the "deeply christian right"( those that don't like gays but love Israel) would find this behavior by their beloved to be degenerate? Why wouldn't those people like Iran better? I'm always so confused, must a matter of priorities.
gal
August 10th, 2012 at 6:27 pm
The Holy Land, even, hmmm, gotta ponder that for awhile. :)
harrmtl@gmail.com
August 10th, 2012 at 6:27 pm
the state of texas shouldnt be executing anyone, no matter their IQ, nor should any government. But worse than the ayatollahs? dont think so.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 6:38 pm
maybe read about the Bahai in Iran. Yes and by "less tolerant", a nice euphemism, you mean of course, they KILL them. Yes I agree, that is "LESS TOLERANT". which religious faith is persecuted in Israel again?
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 6:52 pm
No troops. I am not suggesting that really, as I've tried to say here, I agree with so many of the positions you take. There is however seemingly ceaseless Israel bashing and an implicit deference to Iran which is dissonant to me. You have admirers here who seethe with anti-Israelism already and they seem to get stoked by it. I merely am pointing out that there is dissent and opposition in Israel, and the government isn't shooting on its citizens or hanging them from cranes. I suspect even if Palestinians and Israelis returned to their 67 borders and Jerusalem was shared, that for many here that is not enough – they want Israel gone. Finished. That is the undertone.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 6:57 pm
they (the christian right) have their own religious-based convicitons about Israel, right? I think they believe Jews are going to hell either way, unless they "find" Jesus, gay or not.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 7:03 pm
I agree. But if 99.99% of the time Israel gets bashed here, then maybe .01% of the time people could be reminded of what a horror show Iran is on human rights and dignity. That DOES NOT mean I am calling for American intervention to overthrow them. F them. One day, maybe, Iranians will manage to see the light on their own.
Sam
August 10th, 2012 at 7:05 pm
Take it easy
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
no. the USA should not be involved in all these foreign wars nor should it start new ones, I agree. If Israel is able, on its own, to disable the Iranian nuke project, let them do so. clearly Iran is not an existential threat to the USA. Agree fully.
mikeharry
August 10th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
I guess the whole population of Israel are "zionist zealots" if that's what an Israeli citizen is automatically in your world. But like you point out, in the depths of your sarcasm and insight, the thugocracy represents Israel at "this time", and might just get their asses kicked in the next election. Because there are elections in Israel, and a meaningful opposition. yes they have nukes. That's just how it is.
gal
August 10th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
Did it ever occur to you that it would seem there are more people in this country, in Congress and elsewhere who seem more concerned with the safety of Israel, a foreign country, than they do about America? I don't owe anything to Israel, nor should I be bound to defend that country, or any other.
Jaime
August 10th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
And you read about the Palestinians.Yes, more tolerant. It happens that's the dynamics of societies and human beings; there are no absolutes. Doesn't the US kill or drone just because one disagrees with the policies of the Empire? Who is persecuted? No, the questions should be who is discriminated, who is blown to pieces, whose land is stolen every day.
Rodmo
August 10th, 2012 at 9:23 pm
I agree mikeharry, and you are getting some crazy thumbs-down for some fairly common sense responses. This is plain revealing of the posters on this thread. Any halfway objective stranger could spend a day on antiwar.com, and draw the conclusion that Iran is considered a benevolent nation in these parts. This is an unfortunate side-effect of the staunch outrage (justifiably) on this site of the war buildup against Iran. Some of the truth must suffer I guess.
truewest
August 10th, 2012 at 10:04 pm
yes, almost automatic…..sadly, since they appear to invariably continue in inhumane treatment of the Palestinians and show no restraint in bulldozing their homes, stealing their land etc. etc. Why can't you see that…or maybe you do, but want to simply obfuscate the reality hoping to confuse. And as for the mythology of Israeli "democracy" – I guess ,the right, the far right, and the extreme-loony-ultra right represent a really wide range of political options for the Israeli populace. And if/when Iran gets nukes will your response also be 'that's just how it is"…..(and yes, I don't think all Israeli people are zealots and I would dare say a good many are ashamed of their country and it's policies….I salute them and hope some hope shines in their life – Israel is at the crossroads and needs to become a responsible member of the family of nations, it has that potential, still sadly unrealized "at this time").
Marcia
August 10th, 2012 at 11:29 pm
If a country or a culture, for religious or conservative reasons, deplores homosexuality, it is entirely their right. It is not about being "enightened", it is about a view of human sexuality. And to go to war over the hurt feelings of people in such matters is ridiculous in the extreme. Minorities are becoming a huge bore.
james
August 11th, 2012 at 1:00 am
Read: THey executed a guy with an IQ of 60, only 10 less than yours. There is no worse in the history of mankind, not even the witch hunters.
The last country to lecture people about human rights is the US, until less than 60 years ago blacks were still legally segregated. Stop with the bullshit already.
james
August 11th, 2012 at 1:07 am
Do you always reply to yourself? Try to organize your thoughts before typing instead of foaming at the mouth.
aguest
August 11th, 2012 at 4:48 am
And this reminds me that the case of that deranged used car salesman accused of plotting the assassination of the Saudi Arabian ambassador in the USA has undergone a complete blackout as well. Despite the fact that gory details had been published then (including the name of the Iranian official that supposedly was the handler of that hapless guy, and the fact that the pasdarans were in cahoots with Mexican drug cartels to provide the arms). Since then, nobody has been talking about the case — we do not even know what happened to the arrested person.
The pattern of agitprop is very coherent.
mikeharry
August 11th, 2012 at 6:50 am
let's see, you are the guy who thinks texans would be better off under the rule of the ayatollahs and under shariah law? Is that the well-thought out opinion you sweat to come up with?
Justin Raimondo
August 11th, 2012 at 8:07 am
No troops, but that isn't the way it's done anymore. Send in proxies, finance subversion, and ship weapons via our Sunni allies. On the Israel Question: I think the reason you see so much hostility to Israel isn't anything that's going on in Israel, but right here in the US. Israel's zealous partisans in America insist on lobbying for more wars, more military spending, and more meddling in the affairs of other nations: for example, Dennis Ross is now calling for US intervention (a "no fly zone") and WINEP is always cited in news articles as calling for a harder line. So that's the reason, in part, why Zionism is not particularly popular in these precincts.
Rodmo
August 11th, 2012 at 8:29 am
As part of the justification for the buildup to an Iranian war, the war party has said that Iran's nuclear program is aimed at developing nuclear weapons. I am not saying that this is justification for a preemptive strike. Many of my favorite anti-interventionist writers have opined that this is false, and towed the mullah line that the Iran nuclear program's goal is peaceful energy. Just saying that hate for Israel often twists the judgement and words of otherwise honest writers, and discredits their message.
Let's be honest: Iran wants the bomb so that we back off of our middle-eastern adventures. Makes sense to me.
Personally, I believe that Iran with a bomb will result in more stability in the region.
mikeharry
August 11th, 2012 at 8:34 am
I agree the Israel lobby pushing for war disturbs me a great deal, and I do wish this would stop. I am no fan of the Israel neo con lobby. zionism in my view is the jewish homeland in the territory granted in 48, or the equivalent through agreed upon land swaps. I'd vote for the Palestinian state in their land . There are zionists and other israelis who agree with this sentiment. But – the Israel haters here, or most of them, I'd guess would side with the Ahmadinejad position of wiping the country off the map.
mikeharry
August 11th, 2012 at 8:34 am
I agree the Israel lobby pushing for war disturbs me a great deal, and I do wish this would stop. I am no fan of the Israel neo con lobby. zionism in my view is the jewish homeland in the territory granted in 48, or the equivalent through agreed upon land swaps. I'd vote for the Palestinian state in their land . There are zionists and other israelis who agree with this sentiment. But – the Israel haters here, or most of them, I'd guess would side with the Ahmadinejad position of wiping the country off the map.
mikeharry
August 11th, 2012 at 8:39 am
so I get censored – because i raised the temperature here a degree or two? Who's sensitivities are so fragile?
Jaime
August 11th, 2012 at 8:57 am
Probably Iran wants the bomb -if they want it at all- as an insurance. Israel doesn't want the Persians to have it because once they have it, Israel can say good bye to the impunity with which they treat the Palestinians and invade and kill Arabs.
mikeharry
August 11th, 2012 at 9:47 am
I am no fan of the "neo con" Israel lobby, and the USA should stop fighting Israel's wars unless there is obvious US interest at stake. There are plenty of zionists in Israel who would agree to go back to the 67 borders and have a Palestinian state along side it. Maybe better sense will prevail and this will occur, who knows when. But my spidey senses are that people here don't really hope it ends there, they support the Iranians dream of wiping out the country out completely. And that is why they are silent on human rights abuses in Iran.
james
August 11th, 2012 at 9:50 am
Not discussing further with you, you are either a megaphonei or a 12 year old kid. Your comprehension is seriously challenged.
mikeharry
August 11th, 2012 at 9:55 am
JAMES "…. When will you as for regime change in Texas? Their vile culture is worse than persecuting gays." You attack my thought-organizing and call me a 12 year old, but won't assume responsibility for or discuss your comments which, I guess, you don't stand by. When can I grow up and be like you?
mikeharry
August 11th, 2012 at 10:02 am
maybe muslims and arabs ought to stop fighting, oppressing and terrorizing each other before finger – pointing at Israel. There is full religious tolerance in Israel. And yes I agree that Palestinians are being mis-treated and ought to have their nation state along side Israel. I am not proud of Israeli repression of Palestinians. Though plenty of Arabs-muslims have had and continue to have a huge "helping hand" in perpetuating this situation.
mikeharry
August 11th, 2012 at 10:10 am
actually James, your comments really aren't that hard to comprehend, even to a 12 year old. You fling insults at people who post things you disagree with and make absurd analogies and try to pass it off as "insight".
mikeharry
August 11th, 2012 at 10:36 am
because you figure the iranians will use the bomb? Is it ever, under any circumstances, ok for Israel to fight back against border aggression by anti-Israel forces? It's a tough neighborhood there, and would be even without Israel. I'm pro Palestinian at the same time, and support the 2 state solution and all that.
Rodmo
August 11th, 2012 at 11:53 am
Come on mike. Only a fool thinks that detonating a nuclear device promotes stability. Neither Israel nor Iran would use a nuke unless they thought that the very existence of their country was threatened. Same with the US/Russia (I would like to think).
While Israel has to deal with rockets, border incursions, etc, they are far from honestly feeling that the very existence of their country is threatened these days, imo. They may give it lip service in the media to continue US engagement in the region, but honestly in peril of losing their country? No.
For Iran on the other hand, this is a very real threat, worse every day. If they already had the bomb, the US wouldn't be pushing for regime change, so all of this drama that we are discussing wouldn't even be happening. If they had the bomb, they would still be way outgunned by Israel and the US, and know that the retaliation would be final in the true sense of the word.
Plus, the Persian influence in the ME (Syria, Lebanon, etc) is diminishing as we speak, so the question must be asked: What is threatened if Iran has the bomb? Only aggressive US policy in the region.
mikeharry
August 11th, 2012 at 1:30 pm
I don't think it would make that big a difference really, already Pakistan is nuke power and that isnt the most stable country in the world, and are said to be al-qaeda friendly by the US. So if it is ok for Pakistan to have nukes why is Iran that big a deal. I agree. But geographically speaking, size of territory speaking, have you looked at Israel compared to Iran? Sometimes, size DOES matter. Israelis are naturally a bit "claustrophobic" in their mentality, and maybe a bit uppity when people say they will wipe them off the map. There is no where to run, but into the sea. Literally.
gal
August 11th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Move to New York. You'll have plenty of representation in this country and no one will be able to wipe you off the map. :)
arianna huffingblow
August 11th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
Since you can't change any of these cretins by voting, I wish the the antiwar movement would stop paying taxes altogether. A nationwide tax revolt citing these reasons would be difficult to put down, although I am afraid it would get co-opted by Tea Partier weirdness.
Debbie(aussie)
August 11th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
and every thing
Larry
August 12th, 2012 at 12:31 am
JR – Armchair blowhard..
pshr
August 12th, 2012 at 2:50 am
americans shoot babies point blank in the head. israelis shoot pregnant women in the stomach.
Maybe you would like to pitch in?
Jaime
August 12th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
I am not and I don¡t think anybody here is putting forward the destruction of Israel despite the extremely unjust way in which it was born. Iranian are not crazy as the western press wants us to believe, so if they eventually get it it will be not to be bullied as it is now. The US and Israel threaten Iran almost on a daily basis despite this being illegal under international law. If you want to discuss probabilities, there are more probabilities that Israel may use their nukes. This was proven when Egypt broke the Bar-Lev line in 1973 and Golda Meier ordered their nukes armed. How rational eh?
Jaime
August 12th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
I believe this could be the most effective pacific revolution. Not paying the taxes cuts the bloodline to the state. What could the government do? Jail millions? It has to start with s few thousand and this will be the spark that will set the prairie on fire,
JLS
August 12th, 2012 at 1:27 pm
I'm not sure. Since Bernanke and the FED can and do just add money to the existing supply at the push of a button (QE1, QE2, etc.) in effect printing money out of thin air, I don't think most people have caught on yet but the US government doesn't actually NEED to take any tax money from real people at all.
gal
August 12th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Moses couldn't get just the Jews to live by ten simple commandments, what makes you think anyone could get the rest of the people to live by it? Ah, what difference does it make? Empires rise and fall along with States and rulers, kings and queens. I never seen a homeless or poor person somewhere on the earth jump off a tall building because of a stock market crash. I guess maybe that's why the meek inherit the earth and why we have a war on poverty; gotta have a stake in the game to want it to keep going.
mikeharry
August 12th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
Well said
Jaime
August 13th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
Yes, but printing money without anything to support it cannot go on endlessly.