Dear Ron,
A lot of my readers are big fans of yours: on those rare but pungent occasions when I have criticized you, I’ve gotten lots of "blowback" in the comments section and in emails sent directly to my inbox. Whenever I praised you, I’ve enjoyed a veritable avalanche of favorable feedback. I can’t tell you how many conversations I’ve had with non-libertarians who praise you to the skies. Many people beyond the narrow confines of the libertarian movement are watching your campaign with great interest, and rooting for you — especially those who are concerned about our foreign policy of perpetual war. A lot of these people are not actually registered Republicans – although some have registered just to be able to vote for you – and that appears to be part of the problem.
You’ve captured the youth vote in practically every contest, while losing among the older set and among hardcore Republican voters. In short, the demographic you do best in winning over is the least likely to be able to vote in a closed Republican primary. I would estimate that roughly two thirds to three quarters of your constituency is outside the ranks of the GOP. In view of these realities, I have a question:
What is the endgame?
Yes, yes, I know, the campaign is educating people, building a movement, and it’s necessary to take the long view. Yet I also know I am not the only one wondering what will happen in the short term.
There has been a lot of speculation, not only among your friends and admirers, but also in the media, about the prospect of a "deal." This is not based on anything you have said or done: every public statement coming directly from you has indicated quite the opposite. Listening to what you actually say in interviews, in response to questions about endorsing Mitt Romney, leads one to conclude it’s highly unlikely bordering on downright impossible.
So what now?
Look, we don’t endorse candidates here at Antiwar.com, for a number of reasons, but I can’t ignore the many emails I’ve gotten from my readers, who are wondering about the answer to that question.
It’s been exciting, even for a non-participant like me, to watch as you mobilize thousands at rallies all across the country, cheering your call to dismantle the Empire and bring the troops home. You were the voice of the majority during the debates, calling for getting out of Afghanistan immediately – not in a year or two or three, not conditional on the generals’ diktat, but now, with no conditions or excuses. That’s a major reason why you have inspired many people to get involved who would never have considered supporting a Republican candidate for any office, let alone President of the United States.
Yet, as the primaries wind down, and Romney gets closer to his seemingly inevitable victory, we are hearing, time and again, that certain individuals high up in your campaign are trying to make some sort of dubious deal. Business Insider reports:
"Sources close to the campaign told Business Insider that, behind the scenes, there have been ongoing discussions between the two campaigns that appear to include, or at least be the precursor to, an eventual deal. ‘The courtship has been underway for a long time,’ a source who declined to be named, talking about internal campaign affairs told Business Insider. ‘They are smart enough to know that he [Paul] can’t win the nomination or get a Cabinet position … but Ron Paul has to go somewhere.’"
I don’t believe this "source," Ron, not even for a minute: if there has been a "courtship," it’s been entirely one-sided, with the Romneyites suffering from a bad case of unrequited love. Just seeing the look on your face when asked by Bob Schieffer about an endorsement is enough to convince me of that — not that I needed all that much convincing.
On the other hand, the last sentence in the quote above is completely accurate: after Tampa, you do have to go somewhere. And the movement you inspired wants to know where you are taking them: is it only as far as Tampa, or will you go all the way and launch a third party campaign?
"You don’t have to be a math genius to know that it is going to be very hard for us to get to Tampa with 1,144 delegates," says your campaign manager, Jesse Benton. "Short of Dr. Paul being the nominee, there would be a substantial price for us to throw our support behind someone else."
I don’t know what Benton considers "substantial," in this context, but I can’t imagine what the Romney camp could possibly offer you in exchange for an endorsement, and neither can the Business Insider: their piece lists a number of scenarios – the promise of a cabinet position for Rand Paul, a speaking slot in Tampa, concessions on the party platform – and then dismisses each and every one.
If I were 76 years old, I know I wouldn’t be sprinting around the country making speeches and tirelessly spreading the message of liberty: I’d be sitting on my deck, taking it easy, watching somebody else cut my lawn. But you’re in much better shape than I am, and besides that I can see you’re clearly enjoying yourself – especially the crowds of young people who cheer you wherever you go.
The fun doesn’t have to end in Tampa: if you decide to run an independent campaign for the White House – a strategy some of your supporters are already urging on you – your celebration of liberty and peace can continue right on up until November, and beyond. Because a third party candidacy will leave a legacy, a lasting monument to your campaign and the movement it created: a viable third party alternative to the twin parties of war and Big Government.
Polls show you getting as much as 17 percent of the vote in a three-way race – and those are just the starting numbers. It’s a long way until November, and a lot can happen: another economic crash, another war, another federal power grab so egregious it makes the PATRIOT Act seem like a mild precursor.
Republicans and conservatives argue that a third party campaign on your part would ensure President Obama’s reelection, a scenario I don’t think is all that credible. If Romney loses it will be because most people simply don’t like him, don’t trust him, and don’t want him anywhere near the Oval Office.
Yet even if it’s true your third party run would cost Romney the election, then isn’t it clear the Republicans deserve to lose? In the face of overwhelming public opposition to their warmongering, the other three GOP presidential contenders have relentlessly advocated escalating our overseas commitments: all three have explicitly threatened to go to war with Iran. Far from listening to your warnings about the dangers inherent in such a position, it’s clear they have nothing but contempt for your foreign policy views. Nor have they made any significant concessions on the domestic front: they’re all big spenders, Big Government "conservatives," and if they ever got into office they would continue along the same path.
In short, Republicans need to be taught a lesson, one they will never forget. By disdaining the substantial and growing libertarian wing of the GOP, and ignoring the desire for peace on the part of the larger public, they have earned nothing but defeat. You have said you are trying to save the Republican party, but it’s too late for that: what’s needed now is for someone to save the country from the GOP.
Yes, the Democrats also pose a major threat to liberty and peace, but the Republicans, I would argue, pose a much deadlier menace because their leaders and much of their base are unabashed militarists and dogged opponents of the Constitution. When it comes to foreign policy and civil liberties, the Obama administration is just as bad if not worse, but the difference is rhetorical: the Republicans openly proclaim their intent to continue and escalate our policy of permanent warfare, and take great pride in their willingness to throw the Bill of Rights overboard in the name of an endless "war on terrorism." Obama, on the other hand, is careful to sugar-coat his authoritarianism and belligerent foreign policy in terms of "liberal" bromides and appeals to "pragmatism."
The best thing that could happen would be for the GOP to split, with your supporters hiving off, leaving the GOP remnant to become a primarily southern-based regional party. This is their future, in any event, in spite of your energetic efforts to "save" them. Unfortunately – for them and for us – they don’t want to be saved.
In looking at the Ron Paul web sites, of which there are several, and speaking with a number of activists, I’ve encountered the following argument against taking the third party route: the Paulians, they say, are in this for the very long term. They mean to take over the GOP at the local level, and eventually dominate it at the national level. One blog entry estimated it would take them 20 years or so to accomplish this goal.
Twenty years? By that time, if we aren’t dead we’ll be wishing we were. If this country doesn’t change course soon, in 20 years we’ll be bankrupt and well into our senescence as a nation — a declining empire beset on every front, with the last tattered remnants of our Constitution thrown to the four winds. Indeed, we are almost at that point right now.
Dr. Paul, I know I speak for many of my readers when I say you have accomplished what none of us thought was possible: you opened up the political debate in this country, not only in the GOP but more generally. Now you have the chance to take that achievement and build on it: not by telling your supporters they have to wait 20 years or more before they can hope to effect real change, but by forging ahead and taking the next logical step in our long, harrowing, and yet energizing journey to reclaim our country and our old republic.
In this radio interview with WMAL, you come pretty close to saying you will consider going third party "when the votes are counted" – i.e. after the Tampa convention, at the end of August. Unfortunately, the Libertarian party national convention is being held in May. While running on the LP ticket is just one possibility, it seems like the most viable. In spite of there being several declared candidates, the LP nomination would be yours for the asking – but you have to ask for it. LP rules forbid nominating a candidate who hasn’t declared his intention to actively seek the nomination.
The other viable alternative is running for the "Americans Elect" nomination. Yes, I know the whole "Americans Elect" operation seems dubious on the face of it, but they qualified for ballot status in 35 states and counting. The "Ron Paul Draft" is already the top-vote getter in the Americans Elect nomination process, which runs through early May, with more than double the number of votes of the nearest competitor.
In fact, Americans Elect does not require candidates to accept their nomination until after they win their Internet primary (held in late June). Throughout May and June, you can expect your supporters to campaign for your nomination as the Americans Elect candidate, regardless of what you do right now.
There is also the independent option, which means getting on the ballot in all fifty states via petition, like Ross Perot did – but that seems prohibitively expensive.
Ron, I know you’re out there speaking to huge crowds – 10,000 at UCLA, even as I write – and how thrilled you must be by this kind of reception. And I know you’re remembering the time when those crowds amounted to a few dozen, at most – and I imagine how gratified you must feel. Finally, the pro-peace pro-liberty camp is making some progress – but it doesn’t have to end in Tampa. Please consider carrying the banner of peace and liberty all the way to November and beyond – because the future of the country, and the peace of the world, depends on it.
Sincerely,
Justin Raimondo
April 5, 2012
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
In a recent column on the death of Shaima Alawadi, an Iraqi immigrant who lived in San Diego and was found with a note next to her dead body indicating it may have been a hate crime, I attributed her brutual bludgeoning to the general atmosphere of anti-Arab and anti-Muslim sentiment in the area. As it turns out, the note may have been a fake, and the circumstances surrounding her death are increasingly cloudy. Although I had no way of knowing this when I wrote the piece, I should have waited before jumping the gun, so to speak, and rushing into print with accusations against the usual hate-mongers. I specifically mentioned a number of those hate-mongers by name: Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, Councilwoman Debra Pauly, congressmen Ed Royce and Gary Miller, and conservative activist David Horowitz. I owe each and every one of them an apology, and here it is.
While the facts are not yet clear, what is clear is that I need to do what every ideologically-inclined writer must constantly do, and that is guard against confirmation bias. Of course, the Geller-Spencer-Horowitz crowd will crow that this just confirms their contention that all Muslims are evil, deceptive, murderous, you-name-it, but it confirms no such thing. It only tells us that the human heart, no matter what body it rests in, is capable of nearly infinite evil.
Again, my apologies to one and all.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Up Against the FBI – May 23rd, 2013
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013





JLS
April 5th, 2012 at 9:34 pm
" I owe each and every one of them an apology, and here it is."
That, ladies and gentelmen, is what integrity looks like!
skulz fontaine
April 5th, 2012 at 9:38 pm
Well said Mr. Raimondo. What is the good Doctor going to do? I'm voting Ron Paul even if I have to do the write in motif.
Johnny in Wi.
April 5th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
I hope he or someone else runs. I would like to vote for someone. But it is a daunting task for a 76 year old who has been on the road for over a year. I also think that the fact that he ran in the Republican primaries may preclude him from the ballot in some states. One thing seems clear to me is that the Republicans can't win the presidency without us.
MJP
April 5th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
I'm a Ron Paul supporter. But I don't care what deal he makes, or who he endorses. I won't support another candidate for president, not with Paul as VP or anything. This isn't about Ron Paul. It's about peace and freedom. I'm grateful for all Paul has done to promote that, but I'm done compromising. If he's not headlining a ballot, I'll most likely vote for the Libertarian candidate just as a rhetorical move (pending another Bob Barr disaster).
Ashraf
April 5th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
Justin:
I think this article of yours comes closer to articulating a strong argument for running third party (for lack of a meaningful alternative), however, I would not discount the long term approach. Running third party, while sending a strong and much needed message to the decrepit republican base, does not ensure victory or otherwise guarantee that we can fix the problems of the Republic immediately. Patience is a virtue: and if Ron Paul supporters grow and mature in the right way they can still save this country 20 years from now. As a Palestinian I have been waiting for a free Palestine but I am not worried about immediate results as long as I do the right thing that will eventually lead to the goal. Finally, I appreciate your integrity over the Alawadi issue. However, this should not let off the hate-mongers and the deaths their hate speech has already wrought.
Deet
April 5th, 2012 at 10:45 pm
Not a bad idea, however the easiest way to win is to stick to the brokered convention scenario. The problem with third party is that most of his supporters are tapped out, and no major corporations are going to back him, so I doubt he could compete with the others big money!
marty
April 5th, 2012 at 10:49 pm
Good article Justin. We have to go third party. By 2016 there may not be anything left to fight over. He should pick a real antiwar progressive for VP and stick to peace, nonintervention, curtailing the fed, getting rid of the Patriot Act and leave the social programs until next time. I'm also dubious about Americans Elect, but I'm registered there and intend to vote Paul/Kucinich.
A. G. Phillbin
April 5th, 2012 at 10:57 pm
I agree with you wholeheartedly: the best thing Ron Paul can do is run as a third party candidate. If this splits the Republiscum Party, so much the better. If that happens, it won't be long before the Democroaches split as well, since they have had nothing to say as a party except "we're not those s-c-a-r-y Republicans." Neither "party" could exist without the other.
RickR30
April 5th, 2012 at 11:04 pm
Well put. Paul has to run in some fashion. It took bushcheney 8 years to cause some serious damage to this country and the world, obama did worse in only 4 years. I hate to think about what 4 more years of obamaromney would do. I'm sure the establishment is getting antsy to fill those private jails with enemies of the state, supporters of terrorism, antisemites, gun owners, alleged militia people, Ron Paul supporters, Antiwar.com readers. Not to mention they must be having wet dreams over a trial run of killing an American on US soil as well as a domestic drone attack on Americans. I can't wait for the repugnant serial human rights abuser John Pistole to get a promotion for the fine work he's done at the T&A.
This country doesn't have 4 more years to give away to tyrants. The time to put an end to all this is now. There's no chance that in 20 years from now someone with the views of Paul will be allowed anywhere near a candidacy. I don't know about the Libertarian Party. I get the impression it doesn't have a good name with Americans. Perhaps some other party (Constitutional Party?) or an independent run, whichever way will get him on the ballot in every state. Paul himself said it, the peace candidate always wins. Unless he runs, there will be no peace candidate. Obama has proven to be a liar and a war monger. Romney doesn't even bother running for peace. Paul has very good chance if his campaign is run intelligently.
Abbybwood
April 5th, 2012 at 11:52 pm
I can't swear that this is true, but I saw a Youtube video detailing the fact that any Ron Paul delegates who have registered to vote for Ron Paul at America Elect's website would be disqualified from voting for Ron Paul at the convention.
Mitt Romney may or may not have the delegates he needs come time for the convention. Unless it is clear that all the delegates he has are "locked" into voting for him on the first ballot, there is the possibility that any of them could vote for Ron Paul on the second ballot.
The video I saw actually called on any official Ron Paul delegates to go to America Elects website and UNREGISTER.
Perhaps someone can do some research into this?
I registered as a Republican in California so I can vote for Ron Paul in the primary.
I would vote for him if he ran as an Independent. Not sure about the Libertarian Party.
I believe he would have to poll at 15-20% in order to be in the debates, which are under the control of the two major parties.
The involvement of Bruce Fein in Paul's campaign does trouble me. Google Fein and his lobbying organization and see who his clients are. Pretty disgusting stuff.
spider
April 6th, 2012 at 2:30 am
Ron Paul asked for the support and he received it; now it is time for a third party run as he has no obligation to The Republican Party, but only to his suppporters who have nowhere to go if they are against an imperial presidency and perpetual war. If Paul believes as much in his ideas as we, his supportgers, do, then he will go the third party route; if not let him say so and just go home. In fact with The Republican Party fielding such a weak candidate, one who will be the second or third choice, of a process that represnets less than twenty-percent of the voting public, I firmly believe Paul has a great chance of becoming president if he runs as a third party candidate.
camus10
April 6th, 2012 at 3:18 am
let me second your enthusiasm, Paul as 3party may be the only hope since no other credible candidate is stepping fwd
however bear in mind Paul is 75, and the task ahead will require facing down some vigorous opposition, and prosecuting war crimes and outing the 911 psyops. No small task. Whether elected or not Pauls words can really shake up the ruling imperium and many hope he does have the courage to take a stance against the useless duoply
To add to justins timely piece, libertarians would do us all a favor by expanding their interest into how your model ideology will deal with nuclear and climate change calamities. The news from Fukushima will go down as the largest ever coverup. And yet no serious world statesman has taken this on. Are we entitled to hear about what measures are being taken to regulate this industry and expose the ongoing nuclear fallout.
greedrulesin dc
April 6th, 2012 at 4:04 am
I don't know that most of his supporters are tapped out. In fact, I think he'll bring in a whole new group of supporters if he runs as an independent. These would be independents who haven't contributed yet. People will be so psyched to have a viable third party candidate with national name recognition, they'll contribute, make phone calls, and knock on doors.
Ron Paul will bring in people from the left once he leaves the Republican Party. Those people know how to organize and work toward achieving a political goal.
My question is, why is Ron Paul continuing to attach himself to a failing husk of a party that offers no solutions, has no intellectual heft, and no longer represents his beliefs? When he breaks free from that party is when he can really speak his mind. I said this long ago, and I think it's still true: the people surrounding Ron Paul aren't doing him any favors. I wonder now what their personal agendas are, if they're urging him to remain in the Republican Party.
MvGuy
April 6th, 2012 at 6:21 am
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "and outing the 911 psyops". ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!!!
Nice phrase camus…
The country entirely betrayed and bogus event used to insert the fraudulent virus of hate as the American political reflex……….
Nelson_2008
April 6th, 2012 at 6:34 am
You don't understand. There won't be anything left to save 20 years from now. This country needs emergency medicine, like right now. Ron Paul, if he were President, could fix a lot of things simply by doing NOTHING; i.e., by not going along with the Zionist agenda.
Nelson_2008
April 6th, 2012 at 6:44 am
Excellent piece. My feelings exactly. I hope Ron Paul listens.
The madmen do not have time on their side. They can't afford to have anyone in any high office, especially that of President, who's not under their control and thus not vigorously pursuing their agenda.
Ron Paul could be elected and then simply go golfing for 4 years, and that would be enough to trash their plans.
greedrulesin dc
April 6th, 2012 at 7:12 am
I so agree with your comment. I also think Ron Paul should say what he's going to do, so that his supporters can decide whether or not to get behind someone else. Rocky Anderson has been working to secure ballot access in every state. Ron Paul supporters may not like all his views, and they may have to decide if their commitment to ending war is strong enough, but I personally would rather vote for him than spend time, energy, and money so that Ron Paul can get a speaking slot in Tampa. As for this "wait twenty years" establishment b.s., I've heard it time and time again from both sides of the aisle. They're really saying: "Get elected as dogcatcher and work your way up!" People who give that advice really mean: "Give up, die, or go away."
Down So Long
April 6th, 2012 at 7:59 am
Forget Presidential politics. The federal government is not fixable. We need to start secede-from-the-union movements in all 50 states. Here there is the potential for broad-based appeal: groups as diverse as "Occupy" and fundamentalist Christians would have reasons to support these movements.
Murray Polner
April 6th, 2012 at 8:05 am
Bravo, Marty!!
AngelaKeaton
April 6th, 2012 at 8:08 am
J–
Not moderating this week so I can comment: The stark difference between Justin's integrity and the lack of such in his detractors reminded me why I'm at Antiwar.com.
John V. Walsh
April 6th, 2012 at 8:19 am
Rocky Anderson is a hard-bitten "humanitarian" interventionist. And he will tell you so if you ask as I did – but he does not make a big deal of that crucial fact.
And unfortunately Gary Johnson feels that the U.S. is responsible for Israel and must continue with its commitment to the Apartheid Jewish State.
These are non-starters.
Jill Stein who probably will get the Green Party nomination is solidly anti-interventionist as far as I can tell. She also will be on the ballot in virtually every state, I believe. I do not care for the Malthusian views of some in her camp, and I do not think she is feisty enough. But she is serious and has been at work on building the Green Party (rebuilding, actually since it was destroyed by so-called DemoGreens whose true loyalty was to the Dems and by a PC aura that was crippling.) But barring a Ron Paul run, she will be the only unequivocal, solid antiwar, anti-Empire candidate out there.
But for a candidate who will bring a big slice of the public around to an antiwar view, there is no one better than RP right now and it is time for him to decide.
John V. Walsh
April 6th, 2012 at 8:22 am
Why cannot Ron Paul get the endorsement of the Libertarian Party and still try to win the Republican nomination. And he can use the Republican convention to get more publicity for his cause.
That allows him to say that he did not leave the Republican Party; the Republican Party left him. ;-)
What is wrong with appearing on two ballot lines? It is done in NY all the time.
Gera Rosy
April 6th, 2012 at 8:26 am
Down So Long- You are absolutely…………………………………………………………………….correct!
WhichWaldenPond
April 6th, 2012 at 8:33 am
Please, everyone, vote for Ron Paul in November. As the Republican Party candidate, as the Libertarian Party candidate, or as the Constitutional Party candidate. If Ron Paul is not on the ballot, then write in his name. Tell the our government and our media what kind of government we want.
Mike
April 6th, 2012 at 8:59 am
When in the hell are people going to realize that it is NOT possible to get elected as a third party candidate? You can't get in debates and spend most of your money and time just trying to get on the ballot. Get that through your heads!
andy
April 6th, 2012 at 9:19 am
America needs new parties. The republicrats are rotten to the cores.
Generalissimo X
April 6th, 2012 at 9:30 am
first of all funk the republicans. i have no idea why paul chooses to stick with a bunch of war mongering maniacs who's only position is "beat the democrats". oh that and perpetual war and death to all muslims and enemies of the state, which is essentially everyone but them. moreover the ridicule, ignore and roundly denounce and despise paul's platform. like their sad liberal counterparts before them all you hear rino's say "is anyone but obama" as opposed to "anyone but bush" a few years back. how long does "anyone but.." actually qualify as a political choice/option?? it doesn't and is precisely the attitude which has lead to the two party duopoly destroying our great republic. i said long before justin's column a few weeks back that the republicans have no interest in winning the election. they best they can do is trot out a triumverate of three creepy trolls, all of whom are amazingly out of touch insiders who have NO HOPE of beating the great deceiver barry o. it's pretty obvious to even the most obtuse observer that ron paul is different which is why he is ignored…that's what they do to ideas they fear.
Generalissimo X
April 6th, 2012 at 9:31 am
in addition… this country doesn't have a lifespan of 20 months, let alone 20 years. and if you're taking such a long view, then by god, there is no way you should hang with the republican party. it is a corporate monstrosity that can't be saved, shouldn't be saved, and like hitler in the bunker, has no intention of willfully "surrendering" to outside ideas. go start a 3rd party, the paul party, and take it from there.
greedrulesin dc
April 6th, 2012 at 10:00 am
Sure you can. Besides, there is no alternative. If ever there was a time for a third party candidate, it is now. If enough people support a third party candidate (and support for both Obama and Romney is very low), they'll be outraged when their candidate isn't included in debates. I honestly don't think Paul will have to exert much effort to get on the ballot, do you?
People can rally around a third party candidate and show their outrage when these other two corporate scumbags try to squeeze him out. Make no mistake: the traditional party "leaders" are scared stiff that Paul will make a third party run.
My question is, why would you discourage this?
jeff_davis
April 6th, 2012 at 10:06 am
I watched the YouTube video. While the concept of Republican Paul delegates being compromised by their participation in AE, may have some merit, the idea that AE is a conspiracy aimed at Ron Paul is,…well,… classic conspiracy theory overreach.
More likely in my view is that the pundits who have publicized the conflict of interest "problem", have an anti-Paul agenda of their own. Or it could be that they are trying to sabotage Paul's chances in both the AE and the Repub Primary processes, kiss up to the Establishment by pissing on Paul, and earn themselves a promotion from D-list punditry and a corresponding raise in pay.
How many Repub Paul delegates are AE delegates? Are Repub Paul delegates likely to be AE members? I think not. Tempest in a teapot. Distraction. Clever angle for some aspiring pundit/commercial word monger. Otherwise, pile of baloney.
Consider this:
If the AE nominating convention in May chooses Paul, any delegate who voted for him, and wanted to stay legal with the Repubs for their convention in August, could then simply resign AE. End of conflict.
I'm an AE delegate for Paul, voter for Paul, and nowhere near any possibility of being a Repub delegate for Paul. Which I suspect is generally the case.
Completely reasonable for you to be concerned, but,… a total non-issue. Yet another interesting detail in a very interesting election season.
Tony DiGerolamo
April 6th, 2012 at 10:18 am
The only thing that worries me, is that Ron said in the debate that anyone GOP candidate would be better than Obama. Is that a real distinction? Was he just placating the crowd? Seems to me the logical end of that statement would be he would begrudging support someone or at least not get in their way. I hope he runs third party though.
Treg4RonPaul
April 6th, 2012 at 10:19 am
Justin, Please read this… "Re-branding Liberty inside the 2-Party Duopoly" and then you will understand WHY going 3rd Party KILLS the very thing what you want. It all has to do with human US vs THEM psychology. In short, liberty must be Inside Both Parties for Freedom to win. Taking it outside, kills it dead. This is why we old time AZ libertarians re-branded libertarianism as the R3VOLution and now have "Ron Paul Republicans" inside the GOP and we are re-branding liberty as "Jefferson Democrats" inside the DNC … Please read. http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or…
Curious
April 6th, 2012 at 10:39 am
How about Russ Feingold (maybe?), Dennis Kucinich (insert popular leftist here that does not suck) for President and Ron Paul for vice president on the Libertarian ticket? They are younger men. This would take out the "he is too old" vote. Also it wouldn't only be the minority wing of the Republican party throwing a temper tantrum while struggling to change the trajectory of the country away from death's door while losing to money (the true voters in the major parties).
or
Get out if you can. Prepare for the worst. Uncle Sam knows there will be money in keeping the savages (citizens) away from the pearly gates of the wealthy.
dink
April 6th, 2012 at 11:04 am
"…Because he is so transparently an honest man" as Lew Rockwell's describes Ron Paul. ( http://www.lewrockwell.com/lewrockwell-show/wp-content/u... ). R. Paul is in California. ( http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/mitt%20romney%… )
Mr Raimondo's piece is about strategy. I think we need another Senator or two. I don't know how it comes about or where. That seems like a logical next step. Rand Paul "won headlines for halting a new round of sanctions against Iran coming out of the Senate, by objecting to a call for unanimous consent. He insisted that the sanctions bill include a sentence saying that nothing in the bill should be construed as declaring war or authorizing the use of force against Iran (or Syria, also targeted by part of the bill)."
(http://reason.com/archives/2012/03/29/why-rand-paul-associated-sanctions-with )
Prinzowhales
April 6th, 2012 at 11:23 am
I contributed to the last Ron Paul campaign…I refuse to contribute to this one. I didn't support the 'education' president…I'm not supporting a candidate for the presidency who thinks that the process is just some kind of Chatauqua and leaves us in the lurch when he loses the nomination to the lying, scum-sucking dogs who own the Republican Party…Mr. Romney and Mr. Santorum and Mr. Gingrich… lock, stock and barrel…(and, just what kind of dumb animal supports Newt?)
Steven Berson
April 6th, 2012 at 11:42 am
regarding a potential third party run by Ron Paul here are some basics of election logistics which effects what you propose.
Regarding being on the Libertarian Party ticket:
the Libertarian Party National Convention where the Presidential and Vice Presidential nominations for the LP will be made is the first weekend of May in Las Vegas. In order for RP to run with on the Libertarian ticket he would have to actually be physically present at the Convention, and announce his candidacy for either the Libertarian nomination for President or Vice President, and have the delegates there (of which I am one) give him majority vote (the Vice Presidential candidate is not picked
by the Presidential nominee but also voted on by Convention delegates), and he would have to accept this nomination. Ron Paul can NOT wait until after the GOP Convention in August to decide to do this!!! – it will already have been decided by then.
A precedent to be aware of: In 2008 the Libertarian National Committee made (a controversial within the Libertarian Party) direct invitation to Ron Paul to enter the race for Libertarian nomination for President. Ron Paul declined this invitation.
So how about other third party options?
The Constitution Party's convention is in late April – and unless he jumps into this race immediately I'd say former Congressman Virgil Goode is getting this at this point. There's no way he receives the Green Party nomination – because they are for big stimulus spending and stricter environmental regulations – and at this point I'd say Dr. Jill Stein gets this. Americans Elect's online nominating process is in June – but they are headed by a board that has final approval over the choice – and most backing for it comes from Council of Foreign Relations board member Peter Ackerman – so I'd say there's no way they go with Ron Paul. That covers it for 3rd party's with actual ballot access large enough to actually win the election. The Reform Party has limited ballot access but their Convention is in June where they will likely nominate Buddy Roemer. SO – no 3rd party has its nominating process after the GOP Convention in August. And since it seems RP is determined to go all the way to the GOP Convention it definitely looks like he will not do 3rd party.
OK – so RP most likely can't do a 3rd party run – so how about an independent one? After all John Anderson quickly mobilised an independent campaign in 1980 that had full ballot access. The thing is that there are now "sore loser" laws that apply to Presidential candidates in place in Texas, Ohio, South Dakota and Mississippi – so in order to get on the ballot of these States as an independent RP would have to successfully win a court case against these laws (which I'd say he would have a very good chance of doing since they have flimsy legality – the question is whether they would get decided in time for a realistic run in these though). The other stumbling block is that gaining ballot access as an independent requires a big chunk of cash and effort towards securing that would put resources away from simply campaigning. But it is doable. However – we can look towards two things: the precedent of 2008 – where RP declined to run independently in the General election – and also RP's very own words – where he's stated over and over he has no intentions to do so. So again – I'd say most likely this won't happen.
Crazy Horse
April 6th, 2012 at 11:52 am
I won't name the website as I don't want to give them any publicity at all, but the way they attacked Justin personally (from the very first word they said about him) says all we need to know about their character.
Justin, you're a hero. Don't let someone like that get you down. Your ideological bias is clear, but you don't pretend otherwise. And your tireless efforts in educating the public about what's really going on around the world far outweigh a momentary lapse in due diligence.
Shadeclan
April 6th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Ron Paul is a great and honest man but a man nonetheless. The movement is the important thing. The general populace must wake up, get educated and get involved. I will be among those trying to take over the Republican party at the Vermont state and possibly the national convention. If successful, we will gain control over the machinery and all those who vote blindly for any candidate with an "R" next to their name – then Dr. Paul will have a real shot at gaining the presidency. If unsuccessful, I will vote for whatever 3rd party Dr. Paul goes with. If he decides not to run 3rd party, I will write him in during this election and every subsequent election (assuming that there are subsequent elections) until he dies or someone else with his impressive credentials becomes available.
People must comprehend not only what Government is but why it is. Government is an artifact of the market, providing demanded services to the vast majority. One service is the protection of established money interests by stifling industry, inventiveness and competition. Government also facilitates those who, for whatever reason, wish to impose their will on others. Another service is that of providing the means for people to get "something for nothing" through wealth redistribution. Government also removes culpability from people for personal problems and takes care of all the nasty and mundane things that the average person doesn't want to deal with. The first service was partly addressed by the Occupy Wall Street crowd but the real problem is the demand for these other services. Since every law carries with it the possibility of resistance, every law is permission given to the government to shoot someone. Until people realize this and stop multiplying laws ad-infinitum for every perceived injustice and every instance of inequality, laziness and stupidity, there can be no peace and no real liberty.
Bob D
April 6th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Justin has been there, both for and against Ron Paul. As a believer in redemption and the story of the prodigal son, in a sense that makes him a more cherished supporter of Ron Paul than me, who has always supported Ron Paul.
Bob D
April 6th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
I know in local elections candidates can run on several tickets, typically on the republican and conservative party ticket. Why can't Ron Paul declare himself to be running on the Republican AND the libertarian ticket? Oh I'm sure the Republicans would dump him but haven't they already? Why does that mean he must dump the republicans? And its not like there are any more debates he wants in on.
San Fernando Curt
April 6th, 2012 at 2:05 pm
Most Americans respond to Ron Paul's foreign policy honesty while utterly disbelieving a Libertarian president would be capable of dismantling the Federal Reserve, ending income-tax collection and limiting government to streetcorner watchdog, international grade. Most of us, since we're soaked for a third of our income every year, want to see some of that back in form of unemployment when we're jobless, social security when we're toothless and can't work, and some help with medical expenses when our body's falter keeping rich some superior, up-by-the-bootstraps heir to disgustingly vast fortune. So… Paul won't make it into the White House. I wish Libertarians would either drop the dream of returning the Republic to a past that never existed, to a pure capitalism relying on honest but savage law of an economic jungle, or find some way of integrating in other political platforms its very sane, practical design for America's approach to the world.
Mike
April 6th, 2012 at 2:18 pm
Heh, good luck, You're going to need it.
"My question is, why would you discourage this? "
It's called reality.
mijj
April 6th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
just a detail ..
I know it's traditional to call the Dems and Repubs "parties" .. but really. They're factions of the same party. They just present different styles.
A Ron Paul party would actually be the dawn of actual democracy (rather than democracy theatre). Ie, he would present an alternative to the one party (with two factions) world view.
CassandraSpeaks
April 6th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
It's assumed that third parties are doomed to failure, and might create unintended consequence by taking votes disproportionately from one of the duopoly factions. In relatively normal times that is true, but these times are anything but normal. As Justin points out, we're going downhill fast.
Support for the two major parties is quite broad, but not at all deep. Most Americans are fed up, and anyone with any semblance of moral principle, as opposed to mindless partisanship or fanatical personality cultism, is disgusted and worried. Contrary to what most people believe, revolutions are often sparked at opportune times and accelerate rapidly.
We have a Hobson's choice in Obama and Romney. Their current rhetoric reflects differences in their party bases, not in substance. Both are crony capitalist, 1%-serving, warmongering, constitution-trashing, environmentally irresponsible liars. Most Americans are tired of endless wars, wary of living in a police state, want a fairer deal than they're getting, and worried about their and their children's future.
A third party would have an uphill struggle, but with grassroots and net activism, I believe it could win a plurality and thus the White House. The same thing could be done in congressional races against wisely chosen incumbents.
If not now, when?
marty
April 6th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
I agree with you on Anderson and Johnson. Support for humanitarian interventionism and support for Israel are non-starters.
Otherwise, I'm willing to consider anyone opposed to the wars and our mideast policy.
marty
April 6th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
You're right. It has to be now. I wouldn't count on a next time.
John Howard
April 6th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
I don't remember the details or name, but there is a website where people can pledge money using PayPal which will only be charged to their account if a certain event takes place. The event could be a decision by Ron Paul and everyone (especially Ron) could watch the pledged money totals climb as a sign of the support he would get if he made that decision. Once the decision was made, he would receive the pledged amount (minus a small %fee for that website).
camus10
April 6th, 2012 at 7:40 pm
that bogus event led to the gutting of the 4th Amendment, NDAA , now strip searches and Citizens United mocking the People
just the fantasy of Andrew Napolitano or Glenn Greenwald or Jonathan Turley or the NSA whislblower Drake starring down at the Supreme SCOTUS farce Sotamayor/Kagan/Scalia/Thomas/Allito makes one wish you all a happy easter
akaGaGa
April 6th, 2012 at 8:20 pm
I agree. I believe this election is the last chance to save this country. We learned that Obama is no better than Bush, democrats no better than republicans. Without the about-face of a Ron Paul presidency, the debt, war, and corruption will be so ingrained it will be impossible to repair.
Timmy Ramone
April 6th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
I have many problems with Ron Paul's politics, especially economic issues. But if he runs for President as an independent, I will vote for him!
countficula
April 6th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
BEWARE!!! All readers of this post. Before you even post, research who is backing Americans Elect!!!!
If you are a delegate for a candidate you can be disqualified for being affiliated! Americans elect sounds like a great idea but is in fact backed by M$M. Obviously the writer of this article is aware of this.
I smell a wolf in sheeps clothing.
The American people have been asleep at the switch for far too long. We have sent incompetents, con men, charlatans, warmongers, whoremongers, crooks and liars to Washington DC for decades.
End that trend in 2012, vote for Ron Paul.
dink
April 6th, 2012 at 11:22 pm
I found this article interesting.
Daniel Webster
April 7th, 2012 at 1:21 am
On the contrary, Mike, there have been several times when one of the two major parties have been replaced with a third party. While this is rare enough, these times are desperate enough to make it a real possibility.
sakeofsense
April 7th, 2012 at 4:53 am
Someone once said "I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if elected." This is not what Dr. Paul has said. We need to do a Nation wide write in of Ron Paul we have the time and the energy to do this. Believe. I will do the paper work for Georgia and promote the conversation.
greedrulesin dc
April 7th, 2012 at 5:21 am
Yes, I did read that Anderson supported "humanitarian" interventionism. It bothers me a lot. I was just making the point that are others who are working to gain ballot access in all states. I'll concede that Jill Stein is a more solid anti-war candidate than Rocky, but the Green Party has some major problems, as you wrote. Still, I think you're convincing me that she'd be more viable.
And you're so right: Ron Paul would bring a big a bigger slice of the public around, and it's time for him to decide. I hope more and more of his supporters put the pressure on him very, very soon.
richard vajs
April 7th, 2012 at 5:23 am
The sad truth is that it is too late to "vote in" salvation for America. The country is too corrupt, too broke, too controlled by special interests to be that easily saved. The time to have voted for Ron Paul was back in 1988; then it would have made a difference (only about a half a million voters made that choice back then, the rest of you are too late). Can you imagine President Paul informing the Zionists that we would no longer be a partner in their apartheid occupation of Palestine? How long before Vice President Santorum has to be sworn in, because of "incapacitation of President Paul"? The only option left for patriotic Americans is for a hard grind operation like Occupy Everywhere. The easy option of just showing up at a voting booth every two years in November is gone, my friends!
George
April 7th, 2012 at 5:43 am
If Dr Paul is truly interested in a third party run, I think he needs to do it under the LP banner. The LP is his natural home and his running in the general election under its banner would be bring it attention and support that could make it a serious threat to the two party duopoly. Time is short though for this 1st week in May is the convention.
yoikes
April 7th, 2012 at 5:51 am
If Ron Paul is not the GOP candidate then I would advise against him running third party again.
Raimondo admits that a third party run will merely hand victory to Obama at great harm to the Paulites attempting to take over the GOP.
Instead, Paul should become Governor of Texas, sign into law the prohibition against TSA frisking, and secede rather than back down from the feds.
JSD
April 7th, 2012 at 6:06 am
I would vote for Paul in a heart beat but I also just can't see him getting elected. I think the best thing that people who really care about liberty as opposed to special interest and government handouts and "privilege" would be to split the parties. I could see Paul in a third party splitting the people who want a Republic away from the Neocons, and Republican open border crony Capitalist. And as another poster said the Democrats not being able to run on a "we aren't Republicans" platform could also very well splinter into nothing more then a bunch of ethnic, gay transgender, socialist, etc lobbies once their anti war voters and people who just vote anti Republican on principle jump ship.
But I just think to many Americans are apathetic or indoctrinated by the MSM that Im cynical. Today it seems Americans just vote based on "who will give my group the most hand out's" or "who will take care of me" as opposed to just who will give us our freedom to lead our lives with out big brother watching us and taking the fruits of our labor. Thats not even getting to the fact that big business's as they exist today seem mostly to support whatever party they can happily destroy the economy alongside and ensure's they stay to big to fail. So over all I don't see much hope at all.
zioctopus
April 7th, 2012 at 6:16 am
Do not support or participate in Americans Elect ! They are a deceptive tool of the
New World Order machine controlled by the tribe and they ask for YOUR SOCIAL
SECURITY NUMBER'S last 4 digits in order to place a vote. I know, I signed up but
did not vote because there is no way I would ever do that. If we let them become a force
in elections, vote fraud will get even WORSE than it is now. The internet is NO PLACE
for an election !! Justin I am surprised you even mentioned them. They must be stopped.
Concerning what RP should do, he should have dropped out of the Repub. primary in
February. Once he got on TV with the debates, that's enough, mission accomplished.
People need to realize that the Parties are OWNED by the Establishment. There is absolutely
nothing wrong with Party Bosses choosing their candidates. It is legal. It is NOT AN ELECTION.
The Primary procedure is akin to World Wrestling Entertainment, and that's all it is.
At this late point in the game, Ron Paul is losing my support. I will not even bother to vote
for him in my state's upcoming primary. I did in 2008, but this is different. He looks totally
ridiculous and I cannot support what I now believe to be a hindrance to FREEDOM in this
country. It's an embarrasment !! GET REAL DR. PAUL or lose some of your credibility !!!!!
The Libertarian Party nomination looks easiest, looks tempting, but it's not the way to go
either. The Libertarian Party still has the connotation of being a bunch of anarchist kooks,
and there is endemic friction in the party over moral issues.
The Libertarian Party cannot be the long-term solution.
It is far from wasted effort to get a new party on the ballot in all states, that is a
LEGACY. One which will be in place for years after Ron's era. We need a new party
to be IN PLACE if we ever have a chance.
Taking the current format and level of the Constitution Party and ELEVATING IT
is our best chance to win this and keep a lasting legacy. I am sure Mr. Goode
would let Ron Paul take it. He would have no choice.
RON PAUL CONSTITUTION PARTY 2012
A. G. Phillbin
April 7th, 2012 at 8:50 am
Who cares if he gets elected or not, if his running does the following:
1) damages the two party system, &/or
2) forces the issues of endless war, civil liberties, & empire vs. republic onto the front burner.
Winning is GARBAGE if you can't exercise the power of the office you win. In Paul's case, he may be able to exercise more real power simply by running than by actually getting elected. Forget the 20-year plan nonsense — by the time his people are in position to take over the Republiscum Party, the party apparatus will have neutered most of them.
A. G. Phillbin
April 7th, 2012 at 8:58 am
Find out — it would be useful for many things.
Mike
April 7th, 2012 at 9:25 am
Name them please.
Watson
April 7th, 2012 at 11:58 am
As just one, the Republican Party founded in 1854.
richard vajs
April 7th, 2012 at 12:23 pm
At the risk of being a nag about this, let me re-emphasize something – it is too late to reform our country by just voting. We are too corrupt, too broke and too controlled by special interests for any easy reform. You can "vote" all you want, no-one is actually going to count your vote. And Ron Paul doesn't HAVE to do anything – he's done his share; its our turn. As Thom Hartmann says, "Tag, You're it!" And taking back America is not going to be easy. No-one, like Ron Paul is going to do it for us while we go about our normal routines of making money or watching 20 football games a weekend. It is going to cost money and skin – who do you think all of those new fascist legalisms like NDAA or approval of strip searches is for – foreign terrorists from Venus? They are for you the first time you step out of line. Why do you think they peppersprayed all those students at Davis for? Because they were a threat to the public? Or because they were a threat to the Establishment? Wake up, people! Some nice person like Ron Paul is not going to win this country back for you. Quit dreaming – and put your own money and your own skin on the line.
Disgusted
April 7th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
Apology accepted. Furthermore, the suggestion that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson should have held a rally for this Iranian murder victim was unnecessary, deliberately inflammatory and obvious pandering to the "blacks just want handouts" crowd. Do better next time.
Treg4RonPaul
April 7th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
I do like and admire Justin's writing. I read his writing all the time. But today he wrote a piece that says its decision time for the Paul campaign. No it is not "decision time". http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/03/13/ron…. We do owe Justin a big tip of the hat. His relentless pointing out the SUCCESS of the warmongers inside of both parties. As Justin point out, they are inside both, and back when Clinton and Madeline Halfbright were in charge, the warmongers won. When Bush was Pres, the warmongers won. The Neocons are inside BOTH parties, yet they are a small ideological group. Well guess what Justin, SO ARE LIBERTARIANS a small ideological group. We now have "Ron Paul Republicans" and we have "Jefferson Democrats" who are anti-war. That is how we grow, inside. That is how Freedom wins, from the inside. (until a full frontal revolution is the final option).
We in the R3VOLution have made the decision. There is NO TURNING BACK. We are going inside the 2 party duopoly to gain access to the voter database and access to the national stage. Moreover, the long term gain is none other than taking over all the key positions inside the GOP and hopefully soon, the DNC. Perhaps Justin, you did not get the memo, here it is: http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or…
As far as the election in 2012, if it goes "badly" then lets look at what we gain. Another Convention of our own! Yea! Further we will have thousand and thousands of republicans moving up the real GOP elected official ranks, inside the party apparatchik. Come Napolitano2016, we are Ready. Come Rand 2016 we are Ready. We are learning more than our opponents will ever know. We are growing and we are not taking the R (or D) label off.
No Justin, we have learned from what I wrote above and learned from watching other 3rd party also runs flounder, for the very reasons you know so well. So CATCH the vision of the insider take over. History is repeat with THAT Success.
Treg
Treg4RonPaul
April 7th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Just because we detract from Justin's opinion over STRATEGY means to you that WE have no integrity? So agree with Justin or WE have no integrity? I love reading Justin as I wrote down below. Indeed, its Justin's own arguments explaining the SUCCESS of the neocons inside both parties, despite their small numbers, that points the way for us in the R3VOLution to follow the path of an insider take over of the 2 party duopoly … Perhaps you did not get the memo on why we must re-brand liberty, with 'Jefferson Democrats' in the DNC and 'Ron Paul Republicans" in the GOP, here it is: http://www.dailypaul.com/217383/go-libertarian-or…
R.Parker
April 7th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Agree 100%, Richard–as much as I like the good Dr. Paul, he is not a knight on a white horse coming to our rescue. The USA is dead and buried at this point, and needs to be officially consigned to the garbage heap of history–it's time to move on and create a new homeland and future if people of European descent are going to survive on this continent, and quite possibly the planet.
HHLongview
April 7th, 2012 at 4:47 pm
As usual, Justin Raimondo nails it, spot on.
"While running on the LP ticket is just one possibility, it seems like the most viable. In spite of there being several declared candidates, the LP nomination would be yours for the asking – but you have to ask for it."
I hope he listens.
j_in_mesa
April 7th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
You might be thinking of Intrade.com.
From their website:
—
Market Settlement – always $0.00 or $10.00
When the outcome of an event is known, the market is settled. The market will always be settled at either $0.00 or $10.00 according to the actual real-life outcome:
* YES, the market event has happened – the market will be settled at $10.00.
* NO, the market event has not happened – the market will be settled at $0.00.
For example, we currently have a market for Barack Obama to be re-elected President in 2012. If Obama is re-elected then the market will settle at $10.00. If he is not re-elected the market will settle at $0.00.
Let's say you predict Obama will win re-election, so you buy shares. If Obama is re-elected the market will settle at $10.00 and you will have a profit. How much of a profit will depend on the price you paid for the shares. But if Obama loses the election the market will settle at $0.00 and you will lose.
The opposite applies if you sold shares because you predict Obama will not be re-elected. If he is re-elected then the market will settle at $10.00 and you will lose. But if he fails to be re-elected the market will settle at $0.00 and you will have a profit.
—
James K
April 7th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
i think the Libertarian Party and the Constitution Party should both wait until the Tampa Bay convention, and afterward both combine resources to support Ron Paul in a third party run. Gary Johnson and whoever the CP come up with are both doomed to certain failure.
and i honestly believe Ron Paul should consider forming a new party just for his election bid. i was thinking he should call it the "Democratic-Republican Party." he could then brand it as "the party of Jefferson and Madison", which it was. in that regard, he can bleed both Obama and Romney/Santorum/Gringrich of their supporters, and challenge the entrenched two-party paradigm. too many Americans have the tribalism characteristic of identifying personally with their political party. asking them to vote for a different party altogether is just not viable. the most they will do to protest their party is just not vote. however, voting for the Democratic-Republican Party would not be a betrayal of their beliefs, as both parties can claim roots in that political entity. a vote for Ron Paul would not be a vote for the "enemy", unlike now.
the name of the party means nothing, and yet in a third party run, it means everything. and i also think that even the Green Party would want to throw themselves behind Ron Paul, as he is anti-war, pro-civil liberty candidate, and has opposed the War on Drugs for decades, and that is what they claim to be a vital part of their platform. they would also want to be part of history as the three major third-parties (Constitution, Green, and Libertarian) join together to fight the establishment and put Ron Paul in the White House.
i wholeheartedly believe that Ron Paul could be branded as the "last true statesman" and give the political elites a real fight for the soul of the country.
A. G. Phillbin
April 8th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
I tend to agree with this, in the long run, but I still believe that a third party run by Ron Paul could be useful, if only because of the potential damage it could do to the two party system. Paul could even run with an anti-war, pro-civil liberties, anti-empire progressive, such as Kucinich, or better still, Russ Feingold, as VP. The ticket crosses "party" lines, and highlights the real reason why so many non-libertarians are interested in the RP campaign in the first place.
But you are right — in the long term, there's no "voting in" salvation.
Capn Mike
April 8th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
Impossible to get on the ballot in just about ANY state by this time. Truth :(
Capn Mike
April 8th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
It's that site that Bob Murphy uses to challenge Krugman I bet.
Shoot, I can't remember the name.
It's still a GREAT IDEA!!!!!
Organize it. I'll chip in fer shure!!!!!
Capn Mike
April 8th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
Justin!
You're absolutely on target.
As far as the "long view", recall your Rothbard (I believe you're acquainted with the fellow's work :) )
Ol' Murray wouldn't wait around. He'd be pokin' our butts with a STICK by now!
BTW, I was contemplating a successor to Ron if he DOESN'T get elected. The movement needs a champion.
You're on my short list, but may I suggest Tom Woods???
Reasons are obvious.
Bianca
April 8th, 2012 at 5:27 pm
Well, I thought that Ron Paul has attached himself to a failing husk of Republican Party in order to have an opportunity to be heard. He participated in debates, travelled the country through primary process. Media has been forced to mention him — and the mere fact that he was so grossly ignored by the "mainstream" has been noted by citizens. He, in short, got a larger exposure and following. But time has come for a decision. What he will be tapping into is a very powerful force — all the utterly disillusioned young Obama voters.
To work within the system is a falacy. The system is by now so ossified and controlled by a powerfull but narrow elite, that it cannot be reformed. Dr. Paul has one unifying message, and that is to save the country from financial ruin by dismantling the empire. His detractors are trying to portray him as fuddy-duddy, stuck in 19th century notions of education and health. It is up to Dr. Paul's supporters to focus on what matters the most in this election.
Bianca
April 8th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Thank you! This is exactly how many feel. Leave social issues for another time, as both Republicans and Democrats are very crafty — along with their media poodles, in twisting Dr. Paul's message. That would be my ticket as well!
Curious
April 9th, 2012 at 11:24 am
I agree the insider approach seems the most reasonable because there isn't a vehicle for a third party which can bring in the noninterventionist left and right. I haven't heard the argument why the Libertarian party will attract leftist over the Democrat party. We don't have a free market. They are afraid of the unknown. They've grown up with fascism and social democracy. They think Libertarianism equates fascism mixed with calvinism/social darwinism. They believe fascism is useful tool in our modern world because it keeps people working. I'll be surprised if the left goes cold turkey off social democracy and fascism like Libertarians want. Maybe the party system is the wrong way to go about it, and instead create local celebrities of worthwhile people. Then they run as independents.
Treg4RonPaul, how about the circumstances that surround the Neocons? The Neocons are piggybacking 30 million doomsday Christians and western guilt for all the violence the Jewish people have received by western hands. They are cheerleaders for fascism. They give the rationale for the 1 trillion dollar annual welfare check to the military industrial complex. It would be a miracle to replace them. It probably would be an act of god if this is done against the military industrial complex's moneyed influence. Their products destroy themselves and the money taken from the public is used to create more demand through the news franchises that they own. They will probably try and gain complete control of information again if the people keep on waking up to the fraud. They will continue to rig the elections and buy politicians. Perhaps the military industrial complex needs a lucrative offer that it can't pass up which channels fascism into a less destructive form like health care, green energy, and extracting resources on Mars. The left would take the bait.
wayne
April 9th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
I think we just need to start over. We can start with the best economic engine the world has ever seen, free it up and let er run!
Generalissimo X
April 9th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
not gonna argue your point. that said, sitting in a park with a bunch of over tatooed smelly hipsters with signs ain't my idea of revolution. we have a second amendment, it's time to put it to use. i'm sure you've spent long hours looking across the barricades. those pigs have guns, tasers, pepper spray, batons, body armor, armored vehicles, and all manner of surveillance apparatus. moreover they have the will and the legal authority to employ them anytime they like. the ndaa already says you're going to a gulag forever to die. there was nothing non violent about 1776 and history shows no standing army has ever defeated a determined guerrilla force. you want to talk revolution, i'm all for it. but let's not delude ourselves, the elite in control will never relinquish or concede one iota of their acquired power. that is what tyrants do. you want to take em down, well your gonna need to do more than sitting in park. just sayin man…
traeh
April 10th, 2012 at 10:00 am
Justin says:
"Of course, the Geller-Spencer-Horowitz crowd will crow that this just confirms their contention that all Muslims are evil, deceptive, murderous, you-name-it…"
Their contention that "all Muslims are evil?" What a slanderous lie. Nowhere do they contend that all Muslims are evil. I'm not well-acquainted with Geller's or Horowitz's work on this issue, but I know enough to be sure they do not say or even hint that all Muslims are evil, and they explicitly say the opposite. I am well-acquainted with Spencer's work, and he repeatedly distinguishes between the ideology of Islam on the one hand, and Muslims on the other, for a slew of reasons,and emphasizes that many (sometimes he uses the word "most") Muslims have no interest in jihad or Sharia. Jihad and Sharia are what Spencer is concerned to oppose. So Justin owes an apology also for the disgusting and outright lie that Spencer or the others say that all Muslims are evil.
As for comments, don't tar Spencer with some of the disgusting comments left at his website, any more than Spencer would tar Justin for ugly comments left under his work.
traeh
April 10th, 2012 at 10:04 am
Addendum: the same goes for the slanderous lie that Spencer says all Muslims are "deceptive, murderous, you-name-it." Spencer does not say that. He repeatedly emphasizes the contrary.
Outsider
April 10th, 2012 at 12:02 pm
I think the only hope for us antiwar people is for Ron Paul to drop out of the Repub race and declare for the Libertatian nomination. If he waits until after the convention it will be too late to get on enough state ballots. It sure appears that the rest of the Repub candidates are wholly owned by the neocons & the Israeli lobby. If Romney is elected, how long will it be before the bombs start falling on Iran? In this scenario, the best hope for peace may be for Obama to be reelected. In a second term, it is at least possible that he will refuse to give in to the Israeli's & stand up to the War complex. The question is, can Obama hold off the war hawks until after the election? However, Obama stinks on the economy and domestic issues. A Ron Paul – Gary Johnson libertarian ticket would at least shake up the status quo and give us anti-interventionists a real choice.
Felsen Stark
April 10th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
How is it possible Justin that you could have been so far off on your assessment regarding the murder of Shaima Alawadi? You have instead should apologize to your readers.
daj
April 10th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
nice backhanded apology!
daj
April 10th, 2012 at 7:54 pm
your hate mongers……have the courage to talk about issues that people like you are to afraid to talk about.
Jame K
April 12th, 2012 at 12:36 am
ah, that shows my ignorance of the process. the only thing i guess Ron Paul can do to really shake things up is to nominate Kucinich to be his running mate. prove theyre the real anti-establishment choice. i wonder if both the Libertarian and Constitution party can pick Paul as their candidate?
Mike
April 12th, 2012 at 7:56 am
Just one is not several times. And 1854 was before it became so corrupt so that doesn't count. I'm talking about since the so-called "good war".
I see my first post got voted down several times. Fine. Wallow in wishful thinking. To them I say, go ahead and try it. It is NOT going to happen. Sorry if the truth hurts. Good luck.