Critics of the war in Afghanistan are fond of asking: "What would victory look like? How will we know when we’ve won?" In view of the latest events in that war-torn country, it’s fair to stand that question on its head and ask: What would defeat look like?
It looks like this: as Afghan government officials gather in Kabul’s fanciest hotel, the place where foreign journalists and other high mucka-mucks take up residence when in the capital, a group of Taliban fighters storms the lobby, kills at least 12 civilians and police officers, and sends Afghan officials scurrying for their lives. A five-hour gun battle ensues, which is ended only when NATO forces launch a helicopter attack on the assailants, strafing the hotel from the air. The Telegraph describes the scene:
"Political governors, ministerial advisers and senior police officers described how they hid from the fighting. … The militants passed Maulawi Mohammadullah Orsadi, who heads the provincial council of Takhar, as he chatted with a senior judge in the hotel’s forecourt, forcing him to do a double take as he spotted their guns and grenades.
"’I counted at least eight rocket-propelled grenade rounds strapped to the back of one of them and they were in traditional clothes,’ he said. ‘As soon they passed us they began firing on the guards. The judge ran towards the lobby but we stayed and he was shot dead.’
"Mr Orsadi survived by diving into a ditch and staying there for five hours.
All over the hotel, dignitaries, who had come to the capital to discuss the future of Afghanistan’s security, locked themselves in lavatories or hid under beds as the killing began."
After ten years of fighting, of "nation-building," of telling ourselves that "progress" is being made – and racking up costs calculated in the trillions – we can’t even ensure the security of Afghan government officials in their own "capital city." If that doesn’t constitute a massive defeat, then I don’t know what does.
Even the smooth-talking President Obama, an expert at depicting the unpalatable as perfectly normal, seemed a bit shaken by news of the humiliating attack:
"Despite claiming that the Afghan capital was ‘much safer than it was,’ Mr Obama said he expected attacks such as the one on the Intercontinental Hotel to continue for ‘some time.’ ‘Keep in mind, the drawdown has not begun, so we understand that Afghanistan is a dangerous place, and the Taliban is still active and there will be events like this on occasion,’ Mr Obama said."
"A lot safer than it was" – when?
Like the Russian commissars of yesteryear, the Obama administration has announced a minuscule and essentially meaningless "withdrawal" of some troops — which now, however, seems rather iffy. In spite of all the happy talk about the Afghans making the "transition" to "self-determination," the truth is that, eventually – again, just like their Russian predecessors – the Americans will be forced to acknowledge defeat.
How long will that take? The Russians didn’t hightail it out of there until their own system began to collapse at home: they, too, spent a decade fighting fierce Afghan resistance to their occupation, and in the end, as they snuck away, a Soviet commander told a Western reporter:
"We came here with a very honorable task, and with open hearts. We are leaving with a sense of not having accomplished our mission to the end."
An understatement, to say the least: within a few years, the Soviet-installed Marxist regime of "President" Mohammed Najibullah had collapsed, and Kabul was in rebel hands.
It is worth recalling that, as the Red Army was being beaten on the battlefield, the Intercontinental Hotel – the hub of foreign journalists and Afghan government officials – was considered relatively safe, or at least safe enough for the Russians to have convened there a session of the "Afro-Asian Peoples Solidarity Organization" — whose 41 delegates were sent fleeing by a rebel rocket attack.
That a similar propaganda exercise – an Afghan government conference on making the "transition" from dependence on the US to local control – was being staged by the Americans, some thirty years later, with similar results, underscores our stubborn refusal to learn from history. "We stand not for empire," intoned Obama in his recent Afghanistan speech, "but for self-determination." Somehow, the Afghans don’t see it that way.
Our empire, like that of the Soviets, is on the way out, inevitably receding before the tides of nationalism — and economic decline — on the home front. Yet still we persist in nurturing the illusion that we’re in control, that we can manage the scope of the unfolding disaster and delay indefinitely the day when, like this Soviet official, we’ll be forced to admit defeat:
"’It’s a defeat, no question about it,’ an aide in the Communist Party’s Central Committee told an American friend this week. ‘We had your experience in Vietnam right before our eyes, and we still went in like fools. The only thing we’ve been able to avoid is having to evacuate the last people from our Embassy in Kabul on helicopter skids.’"
We had the Russian experience right before our eyes, as well as our own bitter memories of the Vietnam disaster, and yet we still went in — like even bigger fools. Not only did we go in, but we stayed in — long after the last remnants of al-Qaeda had fled — and attempted to set up a puppet government, confident we would succeed where the Soviets failed. Yet "President" Hamid Karzai – or whoever is in office when Kabul falls – will share Najibullah’s fate, of that we can be sure.
As to whether our imperial delusions will implode in the same way the Russians’ did – and with the same rapidity – remains to be seen. However, I suspect – or, rather, fear – we’ll know soon enough.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Antiwar.com vs. the FBI – May 21st, 2013
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013





Steve H.
June 30th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
We are led by arrogant fools. They do not suffer the consequences of their decisions, so they keep making them. We do, and so do the poor Afghans by the thousands.
The only way this insufferable and incompetently run empire will end is with a destruction of the American economy and an implosion of the dollar. Only then will the idiots in Washington be forced to acknowledge reality.
Unfortunately, Americans will suffer greatly for the foolishness of those charged with "protecting" us. It is going to get very, very ugly. Get ready.
skulz fontaine
June 30th, 2011 at 9:42 pm
You've got to know that Taliban is licking their chops in delighted glee. "Death to Amerika" by one thousand cuts. Historically, Afghaniscam is where Empires go to die. And die the Amerikan Empire will. By a rancid arrogance that reeks of self-indulgent hubris.
The Afghan insurgents know full well how Amerikan arrogance can be manipulated. So the dumb-asses in Babylon-On-The-Potomac, only get what is deserved. Call it karma, call it brash stupidity, call it Obama's war, call it whatever one might care to. War on the Afghaniscam was a farce going in and will end worse than the nightmare that was George Bush.
Golly, after almost three years of the Obama, G. Bush seems almost palatable. At least one knew exactly what Cowboy George was going to do.
sherban
June 30th, 2011 at 11:37 pm
I can't see a parallel between the two "empires".They were US which helped the "freedom fighters"to struggle the government supported by USSR.The Russians ,however,had a right to meddle in Afghanistan because they had then a common border and the religious extremism in Afghanistan was a danger for all the neighborhoods where Talibans could influence.So USSR was in a just position of defending herself while US were not in the same position,its were in her imperialistic policy of global domination.
Wolfgang9
June 30th, 2011 at 11:46 pm
I can't believe that he really would say such a trash:
"We stand not for empire," intoned Obama in his recent Afghanistan speech, "but for self-determination."
Of course, its all about empire and occupation, Germany and Japan are still occupied since WWII. The much more decent Russians left Germany in 1990 and the majority of Germans (by a wide margin) wants the US occupiers to leave. Shut off water an power to their "finest", make them move out!
W9
Geo1671
July 1st, 2011 at 5:37 am
You all have to check out Obama's 2012 election fund web site–begging for donations–but that is not the goodie–check out the comments–are the Demoos in trouble–here is a good one
From Arlene McAvoy :I want more goverment control where do I donate? http://www.barackobama.com/news/comment-of-the-da… http://www.barackobama.com/get-involved
NavyVietnamWarVet
July 1st, 2011 at 6:28 am
Mao – after defeating the Nationalists in 1949 – stated: "it is easy to defeat an arrogant enemy".
America, in the White House, in the Congress, in the Pentagon, is filled with arrogant fools and gangsters who do NOT seem to understand that Afghanistan has well earned the reputation as being "the graveyard of soldiers and of empires" – NO invader ever 'wins' a war in Afghanistan – NO one – no matter how arrogant!
As Lisa Simpson said ina recent repeat of 'The Simpsons' – "no invading army can defeat a determined citizenry defending its homeland" – - "didn't we learn that lesson in Vietnam?"
What arrogant stupid fools we have running / ruining America while MURDERING tens of thousands in the countries we invade.
Wootie Berster
July 1st, 2011 at 6:57 am
I was told recently by a German lady that Germany still does not have it's own constitution but is operating under a set of laws imposed by the British, French, and Americans after the war. Clearly the main outpost of the empire is not anywhere near the muslim east but is in the very heart of Europe. However, a more sophisticated analysis suggests that America itself is but an outpost of The City and the bankers therein. How else to explain the bizarro world situation where American tax-slaves pay out billions of dollars per years to support the fourth richest country in the world, providing cradle-to-grave socialism for certain of it's citizens–free medical for all, free university education on demand, etc. etc–while in America itself loyal veterans who fought for the nation are forced to live as animals in cardboard boxes under bridges until despair drives them to suicide.
Generalissimo X
July 1st, 2011 at 8:49 am
yeah, good point. you are probably right there.
Terrance&Philip
July 1st, 2011 at 9:47 am
This will make me sound like a broken record, but if it's the truth I'm speaking, then so what?
Bring back the draft. Bring it back for EVERYONE between the ages of 18-35.
If it were Chelsea Clinton, the Bush twins or any of the sons and daughters of our "elites" being used for cannon fodder, the wars would end in a NY minute, and be assured, no optional wars would again be fought. If the pain of war was as equally felt by the denizens of Wall Street or Pennsylvania Avenue as those of Main Street, all the mindless flag-waving and merde about us being the defenders of freedom throughout the world would cease.
WashingtonDC goddamn
July 1st, 2011 at 10:14 am
I share your cynicism but we had the draft before and it made little difference — besides, the draft is a bad idea in many ways. The senators' sons and daughters get deferments and Michelle Obama knows that her Sasha and Malia would never be forced to serve, while the apathetic and anti-war citizens would be forced to die for the War State. There does need to be a major change in attitude to reverse the war sickness that this country has fallen victim to — who will inspire that change or lead the way, I don't know….
mickperry
July 1st, 2011 at 10:21 am
There can no longer be any doubt that the wars waged upon Iraq and Afghanistan have driven the United States into a deep financial and moral bankruptcy. The nation now finds itself at the end of a spectacular ten year orgy of ignoring reality, of baiting and banishing its own voices of truth and reason, and of rewarding and compensating those who ought rightfully to be serving prison sentences. In short the nation appears to be staring full into the face of the spiritual death that Martin King predicted over forty years ago in his 'Beyond Vietnam' speech.
If there is to be a phoenix that rises from these ashes then it is likely to arrive in the form of a spiritual rebirth; a new age of enlightenment in which the yoke of corporate tyranny is finally cast aside.
“Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness: and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we're being brainwashed to believe.
The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling : their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.
Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them.
Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.“
Arundhati Roy
To conclude this article with a link essentially pre-occupied with the violence from the rebellion in Greece suggests that you are firmly in the camp of the status quo; those who most fear and resist change. Justin you should perhaps not be lamenting the loss of empire, but rather rejoicing.
RickR30
July 1st, 2011 at 11:17 am
Obama: "We stand not for empire" means we stand for empire. When Obama or some other government/neocon buffoon opens his or her dreck-filled mouth one has to mentally understand the contrary. These people are borderline mentally-ill and there is no cure.
RickR30
July 1st, 2011 at 11:49 am
The US establishment has to be a special kind of stupid. The unreal arrogance that drives them to fail where other have failed before is remarkable. The USSR was not just burdened by empire but by a failed system. The US has a slightly better system but the idiocy of its leaders will drive it to an even more spectacular collapse. When all is said an done, thousands of Americans will be dead, millions unemployed, homeless, and starving, and trillions of dollars will have vanished. But…Obama, GWB, wolfoshlitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Petrified, the Repugnant yoo, the Death and Destruction Madia LLC, et al. will be filthy rich! Maybe they do know what they are doing after all…
Ken Ward
July 1st, 2011 at 12:07 pm
Mr Raimondo understates the period that Najibullah survived after the Soviet departure.General Gromov left Afghanistan in February 1989 and Najibullah resigned in April 1992. This makes 38 months, not just 'a few months'.
zapatatio
July 1st, 2011 at 12:22 pm
It IS totally over for the fascist amerikan empire, the nasty details will be determined by the attitudes of its people; looks very dark ! Good news IS the greatest barrier to World Peace, the amerikan killing machine will grind to a shuddering halt !
liberranter
July 1st, 2011 at 12:25 pm
I'd like to think that the good news here is that no one pays the least bit of attention to anything that NBC, or any of the other "[Once] Big Four" broadcast.
liberranter
July 1st, 2011 at 12:30 pm
The USSR was not just burdened by empire but by a failed system.
A failed system that Amerika has imitated over the past half century with its zealous imposition of socialistic controls, laws, and burdens upon productive industry that has effectively destroyed the once vibrant private-sector economy that was the source of the nation's strength. Whether it is stupidity, perfidy, or some combination of both, the Reigning Establishment is cutting its own legs out from underneath itself.
zapatatio
July 1st, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Totally true, and ever so, right on, thank you. There are so many forces, spiritual as well, now aligned against the terrorist nations, of course fascist amerika is # 1. The collapse of the empire Is a DONE DEAL !
Tom Mauel
July 1st, 2011 at 12:47 pm
A better argument is the fact that 16 US soldiers died in Helmand in June. The Pentagon has claimed repeatedly that progress has been made in Helmand since the surge. Also 46 more dead US soldiers in June.
Luther B
July 1st, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Not only did Najibullah hang on but the US keep arming the mujhadeen until was he defeated (i.e hung from a lamp post). The US wanted to rub the Soviet's nose in their lose and killing Najibullah was a central goal. After his death there was chaos, then there was the Taliban…
The grave of every US soldier in Afghanistan was dug by the hubris of US govt. officials two decades ago. Obama is more than happy to fill them.
John_Muhammad
July 1st, 2011 at 1:50 pm
If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
(The last two stanzas of 'The Young British Soldier', by Rudyard Kipling)
Kipling knew what defeat in Afghanistan looked like over a century ago- and yet we're still waist deep in the Big Muddy and the big fool still says to push on.
A. G. Phillbin
July 1st, 2011 at 2:23 pm
Then make student deferments, or any other non-emergency deferments, illegal. If the middle class college kids were forced to serve, people would march in the streets about the war. Same goes for raising taxes to pay for the war. Fuck the children of the elite — it's Joe Sixpack that needs a real kick in the ass. DON'T JUST VOTE — DO SOMETHING!
masmanz
July 1st, 2011 at 2:53 pm
The Russians had no right to meddle in Afghanistan affairs. If the flimsy argument of 'fight against religious extremism' is accepted as a valid reason then every country would have the right to fight every other country. The US can attack Mexico to fight the extremism of Mexican drug mafia.
Terrance&Philip
July 2nd, 2011 at 6:07 am
I guess you missed it when I wrote: "Bring it back for EVERYONE between the ages of 18-35."
NO college deferments. NO deferments for conscience or even physical disability. (Wouldn't it be fun to see Charlie Krauthammer wheeled into combat in support of the wars he so dearly loves?)
If every cowardly neocon's son or daughter's life, or even his own were on the line, it might not end the wars as quickly as we'd like but I doubt any of them would continue panting with excitement at the prospect of yet another military engagement.
musings
July 2nd, 2011 at 9:33 am
Assuming the raid was a copycat of the one against the Soviets, then indeed it is a ditto mark in the history of Afghanistan. Or as John_Muhammad's quote from Kipling indicates, the story is older. Throw in the fate of the writer of a rare book I acquired in 2000 on eBay, called Kabool, Alexander Burnes: he was among a wipe-out of British near that city in the early 19th century – where a doctor was the only man left, purposely, so that he would go back and tell the British that you don't mess with these guys. Fortuitous purchase on my part — I just knew that with the fall of the Soviet Union, power would be tempted into areas Russia could no longer afford to control or try to control. And, soon after, with the convenient rallying cries of 9/11, a Pandora's box was re-opened with arrogant disregard for all the warning lights flickering down through history. "History is on our side" said the neocons. Our power is unassailable.
One wishes for a reckoning to occur, for realism to sink in, for people to admit their mistakes. But it does not happen. The sure cure for addiction, when all others have failed, is nature's way: Death.
All the time spent in the press on international concerns, all the puffery around political figures who are writing checks on the future, all the mock heroics — here we are at the Fourth of July, in a country whose Revolution had a lot to do with stopping its role in surrogate European wars for Imperial Britain, wars which stirred up Indian tribes against settlers on the frontier. Whatever you think of America for taking over the continent eventually, you have to admit that it would have been a far more horrible place were the kings of Europe to continue to use it for their battles.
I have a lot of sympathy for Afghans drawn into the Great Game. I would like us to leave that board to other fools. The Afghans themselves are non-discriminatory in who they will kill: be they Chinese, Russians or NATO. Let them target practice on someone else unwise enough to take them on. We must be smart enough to get out of this dumb war and not get into another one.
musings
July 2nd, 2011 at 9:56 am
No, memories of Bush jr. do not improve with this subsequent administration in power. But go ahead – make the points for the Republicans as it is indeed election season coming upon us. Are you so wavering in your principles, that absence makes the heart grow fonder?
I on the other hand expected little from Obama but better articulation of what the issues are. But that is past. He decided to smudge and obfuscate at last. I enjoyed the bloom while it lasted, and now feel disgust is in order. I had a breather, but the same power structure is in place, and all the wrong decisions continue with the Democrat's imprimatur. Lies too.
It's all bad and no Republican can fix it either.
musings
July 2nd, 2011 at 1:14 pm
erratum: Alexander Burnes died in Afghanistan shortly before the massacre of Brits fleeing from Kabul to Jalalabad, by assassination. Only a few were held for ransom and one escaped to tell the tale. Lord Elphinstone, a hero of Waterloo, died in captivity. Servants, soldiers, anyone who worked for the Brits and moved: the massacre took 16,500 of them. In the 1920's some old white women came forward who had been taken as children. It was all the Native American revenge massacres rolled into one, complete with captured children. The difference is: there are more Afghans than there ever were Native Americans, and nowadays, there is absolutely none of that false sense of security Brits had when they had lived in their compounds. After the event, the British feared for their people in India. They didn't have to wait long for some pretty big revolts, which did not spare civilians of either sex. Eventually, too, they had to leave India/Pakistan.
musings
July 2nd, 2011 at 1:34 pm
Rudyard Kipling's novel "Kim" described the Great Game, in which Russians pressed on India's flank in what is today Pakistan. They also, in that era, may have meddled in Afghanistan. The Soviets, even under Lenin, cared about the Islamic territories to their south. Why? Why did they want an in in India (something they later developed in Soviet times)… why do empires want what they want? Is it just resources? Or is it that they want others to learn by their conquests that you don't mess with them? Do they want propaganda victories? Isn't that what the Global War on Terror is about? Not the Communist International brotherhood of man, but this new entity, Judaeo-Christendom, triumphing over that funky old-time Islam (who loans money without interest and tithes for charity, and makes worship a simple matter for simple men)….maybe that's part of the story — the idea of being top dog with the top god.
musings
July 2nd, 2011 at 1:41 pm
It's like those tricks at the carnival midway. You watch a defeated sucker walk away with his pockets turned out. But you cannot resist: Take three circles and cover the big square. Follow the nut under the cups. They see you coming and they laugh. But in this case, we are both the carny and the sucker. The carny got rich already. They'll pull up stakes in Afghanistan – maybe offer their services protecting our borders (Xe) or build lots of low cost housing with showers that electrocute. Maybe they'll get into building prisons – coming to a town near you. Whatever – the profiteers have a million ideas for keeping on keeping on.
Sam
July 2nd, 2011 at 3:28 pm
The clash of civilzations theory has not worked.Time to switch.
Sam
July 2nd, 2011 at 3:31 pm
The clash of civilizations theory has not worked.Time to switch.
mark
July 3rd, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Justin's a treasure.
But excuse me: why is antiwar.com running a spin-heavy, neocon article on the top of Page One? I'm amazed and shocked. So what if Iran is sending arms to Iraq and Afghanistan? Good for them!
Readers of this site are here because we know that it is Zio-America that is the aggressor throughout that region. Our nation has the blood of hundreds of thousands of people on its hands. Our nation's political deeds are a crime. An enormous crime. Our policies under Bush I, Clinton, W, and Obama amount to systematic MASS MURDER. If you don't believe me, just count the bodies of civilian men, women and children in those nations.
We realize that it is the people of Afghanistan and Iraq–not our soldiers–who have suffered most in our wars of 'liberation'. Those who resist Zio-American aggression deserve protection and support.
Violence in self-defense is not a crime. I applaud all countries that supply arms to nations who try to defend themselves against aggressive, more powerful foes. Don't you?