Gadhafi’s Fate, and Our Own
Lessons of the Libyan despot's undoing
The Libyan war was presented, and is being defended by its authors, as a "humanitarian" intervention. A "massacre" was supposedly in progress, and we had to act immediately – there was no time to step back and ponder the possible consequences. Dennis Ross, the Obama administration’s Middle Eastern plenipotentiary, was certain that 100,000 opponents of the Gadhafi regime would be killed if government forces took Benghazi. There was no time to think: we had to intervene in the name of humanity. A mere few weeks after NATO extended its umbrella over the city, however, and the rebels are already contemptuously rejecting humanitarian aid from at least one NATO member, as The Economist reports:
"Last week, gun-toting youths on Benghazi’s docks chased away a ship carrying ambulances and humanitarian aid from Turkey, on the grounds that its prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, was using the country’s NATO membership to limit the military alliance’s bombardment of the regime’s forces."
So much for the "humanitarian disaster" that was supposed to be taking place in Libya. I guess it wasn’t as much of an "emergency" as the more credulous among us were led to believe.
The latest evidence of the Libyan rebels’ growing cockiness is the reception given to a delegation from the African Union, which is seeking a negotiated settlement. They were met at the dock by a howling mob:
"Other rebellions seeking international legitimacy might have welcomed their first visit by heads of state. Not Libya’s. No sooner had the leaders of Mali, Mauritania and Congo-Brazzaville landed in Benghazi, the de facto rebel capital, than they were set upon by a Libyan mob, demanding their departure."
Fearing for their physical safety, the AU delegation never got off the boat.
In a world of competing nation-states, many armed to the teeth and with a long history of aggressive behavior, diplomacy is all that separates us from the jungle. This is why diplomatic assets, including embassies and diplomatic personnel — as well as personnel with internationally-recognized NGOs such as the Red Cross, Red Crescent, etc. – are generally considered inviolable.
When the Khomeini regime in Iran allowed the "students" to take over the US embassy, in 1979, and hold US diplomats hostage, it separated itself from the ongoing international dialogue that ameliorates the natural hostility of states. The embassy takeover made Iran into an international pariah, a status from which it is only just beginning to emerge.
The way a nation conducts itself on the diplomatic front is a key measure of its legitimacy. It tells us who and what we are dealing with – who’s in charge, and to what degree we can depend on their adherence to contractual agreements, such as international treaties regarding trade. In short, it tells us whether we are dealing with a "real" government, or a semi-organized mob that could change its collective mind the next day.
Not that the dividing line between a "legitimate" government and a gang of ordinary criminals is always crystal clear. As a general proposition, however, respect for the physical security of diplomats is the line that distinguishes the former from the latter.
However, one can deplore the rebels’ breaches of basic diplomatic norms and yet sympathize with their hostility to the AU – a gang of petty despots and kleptocrats – which once named Gadhafi its "president." As The Economist puts it:
"In many Easterners’ minds, their origins alone were sufficient to condemn the AU delegates. Protests erupted as soon as the African leaders landed. For many Libyans, the African Union, which in 2009 named Colonel Gadhafi its president, epitomizes the foreign projects on which the colonel frittered the country’s oil wealth in his search for international adulation, while leaving his people in penury."
What other government leaders do we know who fritter away the nation’s wealth on foreign projects in a search for international adulation – and hegemony – whilst leaving their own people in penury?
Gadhafi’s international pretensions were a major feature of his 40-year reign. He fought a series of wars – including a decade-long conflict with Chad – aimed at the creation of satellite states in the African interior. The idea was to establish the "Green" equivalent of the Warsaw Pact, a pan-African alliance with Libya at its core which would follow the principles laid down in the Gadhafi’s "Green Book" and extend Libyan influence into Central Africa.
When practiced by a tinpot dictator on such a relatively small scale, Gadhafi’s efforts to export his "Jamahiriya" system to the rest of Africa are clear evidence of the dictator’s megalomania. However, when essentially the same policies are advocated and implemented by the US government – most recently, the abortive attempt to "export democracy" to Iraq at gunpoint – the pathological nature of the project escapes notice.
Gadhafi’s efforts to establish himself as the African Napoleon ended in disaster, just as the American conquest of Iraq and Afghanistan is every day proving itself to have been a colossal waste of human lives and resources. In Libya, before the rebellion, Gadhafi would brook no criticism of his foreign adventurism, just as in today’s Washington any effort to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan and/or cut the military budget is met with cries of "Impossible!" and shortly ruled out of order.
Of course, very little of what America spends under the rubric of "defense" actually goes to defending the continental United States. The great bulk of it – 58 percent of discretionary spending – goes to maintaining what the late Chalmers Johnson called an "empire of bases," a global network of overseas outposts where our centurions stand guard over local satraps and protectorates, from Okinawa to Bahrain. (Don’t be fooled by the "GDP" fraud, which fails to distinguish between debt-financed government spending and private production: attempts to measure military spending as a proportion of the mythical "gross domestic product" only obscure the real impact of this major drain on our productive resources.)
Just maintaining this vast domain requires a regular outlay of resources that easily dwarfs the defense budgets of the top ten military spenders on earth. And the spending doesn’t stop there, because this empire – like any and all bureaucracies – is constantly seeking to expand itself, sending out new tendrils at the first opportunity.
Gadhafi strutted about on the international stage like some comic opera character, proclaiming the superiority of his Jamahiriya ideology and conjuring visions of pan-African, Pan-Arabic grandiosity, engaging in wars of conquest and handing out bags of cash to "revolutionary" grouplets in the West who would parrot his line. This went on for some 40 years. And then, finally, one day he was strutting, and the very next day he was scrambling to stay in power.
Gadhafi’s fatal error was that his ambitions were larger than his resources: he acted out his delusions of grandeur in the international arena, while on the home front his people seethed. As the worldwide recession settles in for the long term, putting the squeeze on projects that were marginal in any event, countries like Libya, Tunisia, and Egypt are the first to explode – but they won’t be the last.
The lesson for us could not be clearer, although I doubt anyone in a position to influence matters is capable of learning it. As our leaders strut their stuff across the international stage, proclaiming this or that "doctrine," and solemnly declaring their willingness –nay, eagerness – to go to war in defense of this or that floating abstraction, the money is running out, and their long-suffering people are falling into penury. Today, they are strutting – but tomorrow will they, too, be scrambling to hold on to power?
The global economic downturn is hitting the nations of North Africa and the Middle East hard: the sclerotic regimes that have ruled the region since the demise of Europe’s colonial empires, too brittle to resist the pressure from below, are shattering. The same pressures have already emigrated to Europe, and here in the good old US of A, the crisis is crystallizing a massive discontent that could turn, at any moment, into a massive populist upsurge replicating – and even intensifying – the furious energy we have seen unleashed on the streets of Cairo. Yet our "leaders" in Washington are still allowing themselves to be diverted by largely invented overseas "crises," when the real crisis is right here at home. As our elites ponder Gadhafi’s fate, and presume to sit in judgement, they would do well to heed the lesson of his undoing – for it may presage their own.
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
My article on gay marriage has been published in The American Conservative: you can read it here – or, better yet, go buy a subscription here.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013
- Boycott Israel? – May 9th, 2013
- Carla del Ponte’s Faux Pas – May 7th, 2013





ronin1776
April 14th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Aux armes, citoyens !
Formez vos bataillons !
Marchons ! marchons !
Vive la Revolution!
MvGuy
April 14th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Vive…!!!
Jan Burton
April 14th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
Contrary to popular belief, there is NO EVIDENCE of large-scale massacres in Libya. None. Nor is there proof that Ghadaffi`s jets targeted civilians.
Notice how in each town along the highway that has changed hands, we are yet to see evidence that Ghadaffi`s troops have been executing civilians or POWs on the scale that normally justifies cries of “massacre.”
This is a case of two armies more or less targeting one another while civilians lay low or flee. Nothing all that unusual in war.
Atrocities have no doubt taken place (and we don`t yet know the scale of arrests and disappearances in places like Zawiya) but all things considered, it appears as though Gadaffi`s forces are fighting a relatively chivalrous war, at least compared to what most people THINK they`re doing.
There is nothing in Libya to suggest that a Srebrenica, a Mai Lai or a Sabra-Shatila is taking place.
mickperry
April 14th, 2011 at 10:09 pm
Times change, the internet continues to unravel the webs of deceit and illusion spun by the old regimes, and many will have noted the irony of Justin's allusion to diplomacy as practised by 'real' government, versus the 'semi organised mob'. In all fairness to his example of Iran, we should note that the Khomeni regime actually did negotiate the release of the hostages, but rather than deal with the Carter administration, it chose instead to do business with his political opponents. This was the highly organised group of lawless mobsters led by Reagan and Bush. The rest, as they say, is history.
conumishu
April 14th, 2011 at 10:11 pm
After all the obvious evidence and the ridiculous tiny "humanitarian" fig leaf clearly showing the western powers wanted and fueled the Lybian revolt I wonder why you insist depicting it as a natural uprising stemming from genuine popular discontent. Not only it didn't start peacefully and the popular support was debatable (including opinions from such rabid interventionists as the French officials, some accepting that, for instance, in Tripoli it was only one specific neighbourhood where protests were present), but the "revolution" there ended all hope for the vastly more authentic Egyptian one.
Lybian "revolution" was meant as a deliberate counterfire against the Arab awakening, like the one you ignite to stop a forest fire. Gaddafi is for sure a megalomaniac and unpleasant comparisons are justified, but this was a typical staged "revolt". You can't have them both. Either it was triggered by the covert ops guys and their methods or by the people, we all know from many examples there's a complete incompatibility between the purposes, the means and the probable outcomes of one or the other.
sherban
April 14th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
Now i know that Raimondo,an antiwar leader is taking his sources of informations from The Economist which ,in my view is a pro war leader.
Hrebeljanovic
April 14th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
Well, let's see what he has to say:
http://english.pravda.ru//opinion/columnists/13-0…
montaigne
April 15th, 2011 at 12:51 am
I think Raimondo is right on with the arresting, and especially kicking downwards economic implosion in the US. 40 million on foodstamps! That brings enevitably crimes and anything but "patriotism". Who wants to uphold a system of destruction?
Sam
April 15th, 2011 at 3:17 am
Libya at least is debt-free.Free medicine, free education, free housing, huge investments abroad (USA,EU,AU) creating millions of workplaces worldwide, no homeless people or millions prisoners in the grip of a prison industrial complex . The real culprits are those with trillions debts who intend to steal Libya's wealth.
emsnews
April 15th, 2011 at 5:41 am
40 million are on foodstamps because our unions have vanished, our industries have been shipped offshore, our government is no longer supported by tariff fees instead, must tax the middle class or take on boatloads of debt.
This is the problem: jobs are vanishing. The ones remaining are seeing lower and lower pay and fewer benefits and people are increasingly desperate. Fixing this means ending free trade. And the libertarians support free trade! How astonishing is this?
emsnews
April 15th, 2011 at 5:43 am
The libertarians can't march on the government because it supports free trade and not taxing the rich. The people who will 'man the barricades' will be those with NO MONEY, NO JOBS and NO FOOD. As the right wing slashes and destroys what little social services our nation has for the poor, they, not middle class libertarians, will be 'manning the barricades' and willing to die fighting the state.
Terrance&Philip
April 15th, 2011 at 6:23 am
FTA: "What other government leaders do we know who fritter away the nation’s wealth on foreign projects in a search for international adulation – and hegemony – whilst leaving their own people in penury?"
I've said it once and I'll say it again: With the contempt towards its citizens by the "leaders" of the nation, be they republican or be they democrat, it's clear that they no longer represent us and that the regime in Washington for some time since the middle of the Bush administration has been in reality a hostile force occupying our country.
Terrance&Philip
April 15th, 2011 at 6:27 am
With our nation's "trade" policies, the erstwhile members of the middle class will soon be among the newly pauperized. Who knows? Soon we may see teachers, CPA's and attorney's manning the barricades.
John V. Walsh
April 15th, 2011 at 6:51 am
A good column as usual by JR BUT even Homer nods.
Justin in this case succumbs to the demonization of Libya which is all about us these days.
Specifically he says, referring to both Libya and the US:
"What other government leaders do we know who fritter away the nation’s wealth on foreign projects in a search for international adulation – and hegemony – whilst leaving their own people in penury?"
1. But it is not true that Qaddafi has left his people in penury. In fact Libya scores highest of all the African nations on the UN's Human Development Index (HDI) with a score as high as the two of the Baltic nations! It is also better off than Egypt and ranks on a par with Saudi Arabia. See the info and the very clarifying color-coded map at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_In…
2. Only one country in all of Africa has a literacy rate higher than that of Libya. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by…
3.In terms of poverty Libya is among the countries with the lowest rate in Africa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by…
So while Libya could certainly do better and while Africa is in general a poor neighborhood, Libya's population is not quite so pernurious as some might have us believe.
In general, the problem of demonization of the other is a necessary prelude to war. While it is a mistake for antiwarriors to aggrandize the other, we should not take one word of the demonization for granted and we should force the imperialists to justify every last word of their propaganda and seek to balance it at every turn with the truth. This is a also a large part of the antiwar effort and should not be abandoned.
On balance Justin's column heads in the right direction, but as I said, even Homer nods.
John V. Walsh
GradyWilson
April 15th, 2011 at 7:01 am
Good points. But in regards to Raimondo's quote which you referenced I would argue that it is not "international adulation" which imperialists seek while they fritter away the nation's wealth – they wage war for the same reason wars are always waged – for booty and plunder.
"In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism…. I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested." – US Gen Smedley Butler http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm
Jan Burton
April 15th, 2011 at 7:56 am
I'm sorry, but there is nothing to suggest that the people of Benghazi are not genuine in their desire to be free of Ghadaffi and were not riding the wave of local upheaval when they took to the streets on Feb 17.
Just because the US has taken advantage of the situation doesn't mean the uprising is some kind of "staged" revolt. To suggest as much is an insult to the Libyan people.
andy
April 15th, 2011 at 8:27 am
Always seems to be that curious figure of 100,000 thrown around by Washington's zealots. Much the same nonsense was said about Kosovo. My advice to dictators out there on the wrong side of the empire? Only imaginarily kill 99,000!
freshnotbitter
April 15th, 2011 at 9:02 am
Jan, you do not say if Western intervention had something to do with Qaddafi's kid glove approach to the insurrection.
Qaddafi was one of the few of the old tyrrants that had some democratic vision in mind (on a socialist model) but it is time for him to go. Are we going to sit idly by while the old model stays in place? That old model includes American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and, probably, the Arabian penninsula and it is a model which Qaddafi was warming up to with its permanent strife that would allow his family to continue in power for another 100 years along with the other phony's who railed against Israel and other "fereigners" while cutting side deals with the West that allowed the slaughter to continue in the name of permanent war, permanent rule. How is it antiwar to accomodate that model by preaching non-intervention in Libya?
RickR30
April 15th, 2011 at 9:23 am
Excellent article pointing out the hypocrisy of the world political class. Unfortunately there is a difference between Libyas imperial ambitions and ours. Libya can be isolated quickly. While the US imperial ambitions are supported, encouraged, and financed by the rest of the world. We've been hearing for decades now that the financial collapse is impending once the world gets tired of financing US fiscal irresponsibility. But it's not coming soon enough. The rest of the world is taking baby steps in undermining the dollar, the US moves forward unimpeded increasing its deficit. One can only conclude that the world wants the US to continue to play the role of the big dumb irresponsible adolescent bully. If it's not us it would have to be them. Even now that sarkoshlitz wants to be the next miniature-Ghaddafi, the US still insists on playing a role in these regime undermining activities. It will take a larger collective effort by the world until the US reaches the point where it can't recover. That's not to say that "our" leaders aren't working us hard as they can to bring financial ruin to our country.
conumishu
April 15th, 2011 at 9:38 am
Indications are clear and time passing doesn't infirm them a bit. Involvement from outside preceded the uprise. "Took advantage" (not thinking necessarily at US or only US) with luggages done and flight tickets already booked. Wish US government (and other big boys) could manifest the same degree of clairvoyance more often, even when they don't need to look into the future but simply around.
GradyWilson
April 15th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
"I'm sorry, but there is nothing to suggest that the people of Benghazi are not genuine in their desire to be free of Ghadaffi" – Jan
Except of course that the CIA helped the 'rebels' from the beginning. That's something isn't it? This was not an organic uprising like in Egypt. On the contrary isn't it rather obvious from the West's militant support that the rebels are counter revolutionary? The rebels and the intervention in Libya are not part of the 'arab spring' its an attempt to smother it.
GradyWilson
April 15th, 2011 at 1:26 pm
"One can only conclude that the world wants the US to continue to play the role of the big dumb irresponsible adolescent bully" – RR
Or maybe the world has correctly concluded that opposition to global US hegemony is not only futile but suicidal.
Sam
April 15th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
About 23% of the US oil-gas imports come from Africa (Nigeria,Angola, Guinea Equatorial,Sao Tome,Cameroun,Gabon, Algeria,Libya,Ivory Coast,Sudan,Tchad ezc…) the poor neighborhood , where people have to live with 1$ the day.And there are gold,diamonds,silver,copper,iron ore,coal ,cobalt, uranium, fishs, cotton etc….
Vojkan Milosavljevic
April 15th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
As we say in Serbia, good morning Christopher Columbus! You have discovered America, before Amerigo Vespucci; well, in your case, quite a long time after.
Now, if you just tried to not call names Qadhaffi and if you just tried to spell out the truth how, for instance, both in Ivory Coast and in Libya, the West supports its own bred CIA/IMF gangsters, maybe you'll get some credibility, but so far, as far as I'm concerned, you have proven to be the offspring of discomfited CIA morons.
So far, you have pumped a lot of energy from, but you have given none to the peace movement. And I thought you were a good guy.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
April 15th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
Btw, for all the resentment I feel against the USSA, I don't like people who spit on their country the way you did in the College des Bernardins.
Jan Burton
April 15th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
What nonsense.
If the west wanted to "smother" the Arab spring they would have let Gadaffi finish off the rebellion in Benghazi. What a great message that would have sent to the rest of the region's dictators: you can keep your job if you use enough force.
If the rebels are nothing more than a CIA operation (and the civilians of Benghazi as well, apparently) then it's the most incompetent operation in history.
You really these rebels, who can't shoot straight or hold a position, are CIA trained?
Do you really think the people of Libya have no valid reason to dislike the regime, and thus need the white man to trick them into taking up arms?
gerryhiles
April 15th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Yes Jan … and look at Justin's loaded header "despot". Qadafi is not a despot. I've been to Libya and have taken a lot of interest for 20 years. Now all these f****** 'pundits' crawl out the woodwork.
I daresay many of them would have been hard-pressed to locate Libya on a map a couple of months ago.
andy
April 15th, 2011 at 8:59 pm
The great bulk of our oil comes from Canada and Mexico.
jackbootstate
April 15th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Comparing Qaddafi to the U.S. is like comparing an elementary school bully to the town mafia don.
"…here in the good old US of A, the crisis is crystallizing a massive discontent that could turn, at any moment, into a massive populist upsurge replicating – and even intensifying – the furious energy we have seen unleashed on the streets of Cairo."
We saw the extent of how far any rebellion in the U.S. will go in Wisconsin. Out into the streets and right back into the Democratic Party. What Justin won't mention in his columns is that labor organizing rights appear to be headed in opposite directions in the U.S. and Egypt. Egyptian labor appears headed in the direction of finally winning organizing rights, while in the U.S. labor appears on the verge of losing organizing rights.
The reason for the global economic crisis is that the global economy has been destroyed by the expropriation of the global economic surplus by the usurer class by way of extortionate fees, interest and rents. The vulgar libertarian defenders of the "free-to-extort-market" believes these economic policies are wonderful, while pretending to oppose them rhetorically. Whenever their policies are implemented and prove disastrous, like utility deregulation in the U.S., they always publicly disown them, claiming that the policy wasn't really what they had in mind.
Sam
April 16th, 2011 at 2:32 am
US oil import : http://blog.ssis.edu.vn/jyoun/
Sam
April 16th, 2011 at 7:15 am
US oil imports: http://blog.ssis.edu.vn/jyoun/
Canada : 17% Mexico : 15% Venezuela : 19% Europe : 5%
Persian Golf (SA,Emirates,Koweit) : 22% Africa : 22 %
conumishu
April 16th, 2011 at 9:03 am
The people in Egypt who care for their country's destiny surely aren't naive. A Gaddafi repression, in the true sense, not an insurgency or a civil war, would have them more empowered from a moral standpoint and more motivated. Fear is not a factor, especially when you already won a major victory. The hand of western interventionism spoils everything and throws in the typical derisory version of "guided democracy" (not a joke, the ngo pack met in Paris along the interventionists for this purpose).
We must give credit where credit is due. The swift reaction of he threatened western empire, while showing there's no difference between american and european imperialists, also proves the ability of this global reaching empire to take action and combine brute and soft force to defend its interests. It is a defensive response, proof there are troubles and the future doesn't look so bright, but the empire won't go without a fierce fight. Of course, judging from the official discourse, delusions of grandeur and invincibility are very much present so there's hope.
GradyWilson
April 16th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
Raimondo's column in opposition to gay marriage might be his greatest piece of Libertarian Bizzaro World logic ever. He claims that state opposition to homosexuality is erotic and giving gays equal legal status (health care, inheritance, end of life decisions, etc.), would be "de-eroticizing". Wow. Has there ever been a greater self loathing homosexual than Justin Raimondo? He ends up in the same place as Rick Santorum but just takes a different path.
Jan Burton
April 16th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
I've heard this argument a lot – that western intervention somehow "taints" the Arab Spring.
But why should it? How does the war in Libya affect the protesters in Egypt, Syria or Yemen?
Funny thing is, while many people fret over what this means for future revolutions, the Libyans themselves don't seem to give a damn. Who can blame them? As they stood on the brink of losing the war, their Arab brothers next door were as USELESS as they've always been.
MoT
April 17th, 2011 at 7:55 am
I'm puzzled here. "Social Services" is just another euphemism for stolen tax money. I hate having money robbed to pay for bombing brown people half a world away as much as being mugged to pay for strangers on the other side of the nation. It legitimizes and enables the thief responsible. When you quit stealing someones labor then those left unmolested can proceed to freely invest and hire whom they wish and put an end to this sick dysfunctional excuse of a government and its raping collection agencies.
@Worldloverpeace
April 17th, 2011 at 8:01 am
You clearly have no clue of what your talking about.Free medicine ,education and housing?Don't you think a Country that that's income was 150$ million per day should be debt free and could afford free education,healthcare…etc?Well the Free helthcare is running on less the 5% of what it should be, giving Libyans no option but to travel to Tunisia and Egypt to get treatment,The free education system is a mess and with a population of only 6 million the unemployment rate 30%.I could go on and on.The real culprit is Gaddafi who has brutalizing Libyans and stealing their money for 42 years.
MoT
April 17th, 2011 at 8:07 am
I have to agree with you about the off shoring or gutting of industries. I see it as a two edged sword where government AND industry work together (fascism) to make it so odious to do business within our borders that these companies are then "forced" overseas. It's a scam that only the biggest with the deepest pockets play against their smaller competitors who are without the greased connections. All the poo-poo'ing the talking heads and government poohbahs ramble on about is merely a smoke screen to cover their trail. If the Feds were to actually go back to taxing or putting duties on imported goods as their only legitimate source of income, as they should, they'd be forced back into their fiscal cage and that is something these rats don't want to do.
conumishu
April 17th, 2011 at 9:16 am
You just heard it, you didn't pay much attention.
Funny you should mention the Arab brothers, I doubt the west would feel comfortable with one Arab state or federation, confederation, whatever, acting as one.
I don't fret for others revolts, it's their right to try what they think is best for them as long as they don't harm others outside. But no one is going to sell me as a popular uprising the events in Lybia. Neither the spreading nor the methods are consistent with it. It was staged, with several points of turmoil which turned into armed confrontation. Units switching allegiance and opening arms supplies, former high ranked Gaddafi's people taking the lead, (never!?) worn out "massacres" perpetrated or about to(!?) happen, aerial bombings which never existed. Civil war maybe, secessionist movement maybe, attempted coup maybe, peaceful massive protest nope.
Btw, if it didn't switch to (I believe it never was peaceful but I stick to the common narative) armed confrontation with lightning speed we'd had a chance to evaluate (wishful thinking, I know, with the usual media coverage) if the anti-Gaddafi sentiment was so extensive as claimed by… the west and the rebels.
Arming and intervening along one side in an internal conflict is criminal by international law. Not that it matters, if the Arab brethrens sat on their hands, someone had to get dirty in their place.
If the same happened in Egypt westerners were bound to supply military equipment, paid from frozen Mubarak funds, to Egyptian rebels fighting against the Egyptian military, right?
Hacklheber
April 17th, 2011 at 10:59 am
Qadafi is not a despot?
WTF. No really, man, are you making stuff up while you go along or something?
Hacklheber
April 17th, 2011 at 11:08 am
"Fixing this means ending free trade."
Whenever I hear this coming over the Internet through a cheap ADSL made in China working at 256Kbps instead of a 5000 USD one at 12Kbps made in cartelland, I laugh.
Anyway, a similar-sounding program had already been implemented in the 30's in a certain European country. Didn't work out too well. Or even during the "Great Depression", which made it Greater.
>>The ones remaining are seeing lower and lower pay and fewer benefits and people are increasingly desperate. Fixing this means ending free trade.
No, fixing this means ending cheap credit pushed for politicial benefit, which destroys savings and shifts investment to useless financial instruments which are the only ones to throw off return in a consistent manner. If you jump off the wagon before the next bubble pops.
Hacklheber
April 17th, 2011 at 11:12 am
"My country right or wrong", and imposed on others, too?
Ugly.
Hacklheber
April 17th, 2011 at 11:15 am
"The reason for the global economic crisis is that the global economy has been destroyed by the expropriation of the global economic surplus by the usurer class by way of extortionate fees,"
LOLNO.
http://mises.org/daily/672
Vojkan Milosavljevic
April 17th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
You weren't there, I was. There was a parterre of pretentious speakers, and actually, the only one inspiring sympathy was the American.
But, he just went a little bit too far in his effort to explain that not all Americans are morons.
And believe me, when my country, or rather my countries, I happen to have been blessed with two of them, are wrong, they're wrong. For France, as in Libya, as in Ivory Coast or before that, as in former Yugoslavia. About Serbia, I won't delve with historical errors, but I promise you that when they want to send soldiers into Afghanistan, I really wish them to never return. And there are a lot of Serb mercenaries, for instance in Congo, and Serbia not doing anything about it just gives me nausea.
Mr Raimondo is right to criticise the US government's policies, he just should be careful not to do it before the wrong people.
And if you consider that Washington DC is your country, I don't consider Paris to be France or Belgrade to be Serbia. I consider those three cities to have been turned into gigantic open air garbage dumps by people who have shit instead of a heart or a brain.
emsnews
April 17th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Ending cheap credit won't fix free trade sucking out almost all US manufacturing and an awful lot of office jobs. Far from it.
When one is not taxed for exporting labor, one will export labor in order to get greater profits. A country which allows this to passively happen until it explodes in fury (unemployed youth revolting, for example) is called 'revolutionary'.
The libertarians are mainly 'reactionaries' which is why you will never, ever see Justin R. leading a mass demonstration of any sort. That is, he can be against wars but since he supports the economic system that demands wars, he is at best a distraction for antiwar organizers. I will note he spends much of his free time attacking anyone who does organize demonstrations.
These endless attacks on 'progressives' is useless in so far as creating a united front. Instead, it all goes back to the ultimate problem: economics. The hatred of social systems by various people who are protected (either, have no families or are cared by mom and dad) against those of us who understand the need for social systems is a key division between antiwar people on the left and right.
The internal war that will ravage our nation once our empire goes bankrupt…do not forget that massive trade rival, China, plans to bankrupt the government eventually around 2020…we will fight over the scraps and many Americans will probably die.
This is beyond ridiculous since we have a country with many resources including human labor. Removing all our jobs to say, rival China, is pure insanity. The right has ZERO TOOLS for stopping this madness. Not one thing. Not even the old conservative tool, tariffs and barriers.
@morleyevans
April 17th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
What? "When the Khomeini regime in Iran allowed the "students" to take over the US embassy, in 1979, and hold US diplomats hostage, it separated itself from the ongoing international dialogue that ameliorates the natural hostility of states. The embassy takeover made Iran into an international pariah, a status from which it is only just beginning to emerge." What? The Khomeini regime was a pariah because it dared to take over the U.S. Embassy which was, in fact, a nest of spies and had been a nest of spies since the United States and its allies reasserted control of Iran in 1953 by reinstalling Pahlavi as the Shah. The British Empire controlled Iran before the United States controlled Iran. You know this, Justin, don't be sloppy. Please try to be more accurate.
@morleyevans
April 17th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
True! "The lesson for us could not be clearer, although I doubt anyone in a position to influence matters is capable of learning it. As our leaders strut their stuff across the international stage, proclaiming this or that "doctrine," and solemnly declaring their willingness –nay, eagerness – to go to war in defense of this or that floating abstraction, the money is running out, and their long-suffering people are falling into penury. Today, they are strutting – but tomorrow will they, too, be scrambling to hold on to power? " True! We are the long suffering people who live under the thumb of our "leaders" who are no different from Muammar Gaddafi. The money that gave them power is not running out. The money ran out long ago. They are all living on borrowed money and borrowed time.
mhstahl
April 17th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
Well, just yesterday I saw footage of him riding down a street, his head out of a sunroof waving to the crowds ling the streets.
This in a country that is both well-armed(as is much of the Middle East), and where there is at present an active insurrection.
That does not make him un-despoty, but one might ask just how often a political leader makes such a trip in the "free" west…..in largely disarmed societies where there are not at the moment any violent resistance.
Something to think about.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
April 17th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
Besides, "my country", well "my countries", "right or wrong", may all the UN and the EU officials go to hell. Does that answer your question?
Sam
April 19th, 2011 at 4:23 am
Memos: Oil Corps Pushed UK Over Iraq War in 2002.
Sam
April 19th, 2011 at 4:24 am
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sec…