China – A Paper Tiger
Hu Jintao's visit showcases American cluelessness about China
The utter hypocrisy, economic ignorance, and general all around cluelessness of America’s political class – never very far from the surface — was on full display during Chinese President Hu Jintao’s visit to Washington this week.
There was Nancy Pelosi, a longtime Sinophobe, hectoring the Chinese leader over his country’s human rights record – when her own country openly practices torture, spies on its own citizens, and has murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in a series of wars of "liberation."
There was Paul Krugman, economist-in-chief of Bizarro World, explaining to us that Chinese subsidies which keep their exports affordable for US consumers are supposedly hurting us – when actually the opposite is the case.
And there were the neocons over the Weekly Standard, pointing to the "boundless" military ambitions of the People’s Liberation Army and the alleged threat from Beijing – this from a magazine whose editor has proclaimed that the goal of US foreign policy ought to be "global hegemony"!
Are these people deaf to their own absurd utterances? My guess is they just don’t care: after all, to whom are they answerable? Only their financial patrons, the various special interests that fund their careers, so making fools of themselves in sight of the whole world – the world outside the sealed cocoon of official Washington – is no big deal. The shameless – by definition – are immune to embarrassment.
The "Yellow Peril" is a convenient scapegoat for politicians and their partisan followers eager to divert popular anger toward a foreign – and non-white and non-black – scapegoat. Oldsters will recall another yellowish peril, Japan, which supposedly threatened to upend American economic supremacy by flooding the market with cheap goods – and we all know how that turned out.
Japan was supposed to be the wave of the Asiatic future, a future that never came – and the myth of China, the Sleeping Giant Awakened, is but the second act of a fundamentally false fear. That fear is partially rooted in economic misconceptions, and the rest is perhaps accounted for by racial animus and a complete lack of contextual knowledge about China’s past and its future prospects.
It’s true that the free market reforms unleashed by Deng Xiaoping greatly benefited the nation, but a recent report on China’s much-touted economic growth rate puts the issue in perspective:
"In nominal terms, the nation’s GDP is more than 100 times bigger than in 1978, when Communist Party leader Deng Xiaoping began rolling out free-market policies. While China outstripped Germany in 2007 and the UK and France in 2005, the economy remains less than half as big as that of the U.S."
The average annual income of the typical Chinese worker – a farmer – is under $5,000. Urban workers are better off: they make nearly twice as much. In spite of Beijing’s pretensions, the Chinese leadership is acutely aware of the country’s relative poverty, and massive underdevelopment. That was the whole point of Deng’s radical reform program, which sought to modernize an essentially pre-industrial agricultural society. And they aren’t even halfway there: most of China remains mired in poverty, while the coastal regions are booming. A huge displaced lumpen proletariat is forming, displaced by the upheavals of the past few decades, rootless and dangerous to the established order.
A great deal of China’s festering social problems are directly linked to the inflationary policies – the pursuit of a "cheap" currency – implemented by the regime. In order to fuel its export-driven industries, Beijing increases prices on the home front, where inflationary pressures keep prices high, in order to subsidize exports headed to the US, where they will be snapped up by bargain-hunting American consumers. In the meantime, we borrow from them in order to finance our ballooning deficit, while Ben Bernanke speeds up the printing presses at the Federal Reserve – and we pay them back in devalued dollars.
It’s a better deal than the old-style colonialism ever was – and still the Americans complain! I’m beginning to understand what our nationalists mean when they talk about "American exceptionalism" – a condition of being exceptionally whiny.
The myth of Chinese economic prowess is complemented by the myth of China as a rising military power, one that directly threatens the United States and its interests. The reality is that our military budget is more than ten times larger than China’s: they spend $75 billion, we spend nearly $900 billion per year. The main function of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has, historically, been to keep order within the country, rather than project its power beyond China’s borders, and its military posture is doggedly defensive – unlike the US, which has its troops stationed throughout the world.
The internal role of the PLA as a force for political stability underscores the fragility of the Chinese state, which has, after all, only existed as a unified entity for a relatively small slice of China’s long history. Regional, racial, linguistic, and other divisions are centrifugal forces that militate against the kind of lockstep unity considered ideal by the lords of Beijing. The country is so vast, its people so varied, and its history so rife with the seeds of future conflict that the cleverest, most brutally implemented Five Year Plan can only hope to exert the faintest pressure on the real life of the nation.
Rising economic inequality, the physical and social effects of rapid modernization, increasing labor turmoil, and regionalist revolts in the far Western provinces – all of these factors are evidence of the inherent weakness of the central state apparatus, which is as brittle as the Soviet model before its dramatic implosion. Far from being a threat to the US, or to anyone outside their own borders, the Chinese regime is itself threatened by its own internal contradictions.
The heirs of Mao do have one trump card to play, however, thanks to the War Party in the United States – including both Bill Kristol and Nancy Pelosi, strange bedfellows whose fearmongering over China unites them in unholy alliance. Every time the internal problems of the regime reach the crisis point, the lords of Beijing wheel out the foreign devils to divert the Chinese "street" and provide a safe target for their wrath. Every time the US fleet comes within a few miles of China’s shoreline, or a US spy plane is taken out by one of their much-admired pilots, the Americans prolong the life of a failing gerontocracy. Since no one believes in Marxism-Leninism, let alone Mao’s Thoughts, anymore, the only ideology left is Chinese nationalism. The Chinese Communist Party calls it "socialism with Chinese characteristics," but it is nationalism just the same.
Useful for the regime, this nationalist sentiment is also greatly feared by the leadership because its course is unpredictable – and unpredictability, or, indeed, any hint of instability, is the leadership’s greatest phobia. Any sort of ideological hysteria, whether it be nationalist or ultra-Maoist (the two often met and merged in Mao’s time), makes this generation of Chinese leaders extremely nervous, and with good reason. The years of the Cultural Revolution made an indelible imprint on the consciousness of people like Hu Jintao, whose father was accused of "capitalist transgressions" during that time of ultra-leftist upheaval, and physically tortured in public. The elder Hu never recovered, and died ten years later at the age of 50.
Periodic bouts of hysteria have plagued Chinese history, usually in the form of religious fervor, or, in the case of the Cultural Revolution, pure nihilism. The leadership lives in mortal fear of it, which is one reason why they repress the Falun Gong cult that gets so much uncomprehending sympathy in the West.
Far from a looming giant whose shadow threatens our own delusions of grandeur, China’s ruling elite is beleaguered on all sides, barely able to ride the tiger of popular moods and constantly in fear of some massive upheaval that will undo all the patient work of the post-Mao era. China, in short, is a paper tiger, from which we have little to fear – except insofar as we insist on creating an enemy of our own making.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013
- Boycott Israel? – May 9th, 2013
- Carla del Ponte’s Faux Pas – May 7th, 2013





gary
January 20th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
justin…don't you know that we need new enemies….the muslims are losing the fear factor…times square bomber?..seriously…the russians are old hat….hugo chavez is comic relief…even the french don't bother us too much anymore…who you gonna call….the good old "yellow peril"
davidgrayling
January 21st, 2011 at 12:35 am
The difference in maturity between China and America was on show during Hu's visit. America was full of itself and went on with its normal arrogance and hypocrisy while Hu showed himself to be a statesman, something Americans know nothing about.
Obama, by contrast, showed himself to be an oaf, given his childish lecturing and issuing orders.
The Chinese civilization has been around for 3,000 years and it's easy to see why. They are smart. They read human nature very well. They know the importance of patience, of moving carefully and thoughtfully.
America is full of bluster and impetuosity and immaturity. They want everything yesterday, demand it.
China will depose America and it may well show the world what real leadership means!
http://www.dangerouscreation.com
Erica Brigid
January 21st, 2011 at 1:09 am
Lately the Beltway Conservatives have been exploring the isea of inviting Russia into NATO (this after attempts to surround Russia with nuclear missiles and anti-Russian governments). The US gives the excuse that China, Russia and the US have a common enemy in Islam. China and Russia have insignificant Islamist minorities, and in the case of Russia it is the US who have been supporting the uprisings in Chechnya and Dagestan.
Then there is the Beltway red herring that millions of Chinese will pour over the border into Siberia. This hasn't materialized even though the Russia-China border is virtually unguarded. The notion of Russia and China being enemies, or potential enemies is also purely the US way of thinking. Both countries have been at peace with each other since the end of the Mongol Empire, and are not likely to fall for US intrigue in this day of shared Intelligence.
Duglarri
January 21st, 2011 at 1:30 am
Paper tiger now, I would agree, but it's an open question whether China will stay that way. All you have to do to encounter the incredible sensitivity of Chinese nationals regarding China's international status is browse the comments section on just about any Chinese film; you'll find there the ongoing debate over China's future, and the fury and resentment felt by so many Chinese at the lack of respect for China that has been prevalent in the world for so long. The aircraft carriers and the warplanes they are constructing are an effort to recover that respect.
Paper tiger, now, yes, but they're going to keep at it until the things they build- work.
The only hope of evading a great war is to convince them that they have the world's respect without wasting vast resources on weapons; and that, most important, we in the west are not going to attack them to prevent them from assuming their rightful place in the world.
But unfortunately, of course, there are many, many prominent voices in the American establishment saying that this is precisely what we are going to do.
Unless the insanity on this side of the pond can be contained, can we hope for sanity on the other?
thoughtbell
January 21st, 2011 at 1:53 am
I believe the average wage for a Chinese farmer in the countryside is under 5,000 yuan, not dollars. That's less than 1,000 dollars. I know it sounds extreme, but that's what I understand to be the case.
Wolfgang9
January 21st, 2011 at 2:35 am
I have been living and working for more than 20 years in the US and made the experience that there is an (at least latent) racism against people who moved there. I mean first generation immigrants. Racism against blacks is hardly to practice openly, do to the civil rights movement, but I have seen a lot of racism against immigrants from China and Japan. Sometimes neighbors just build their fences well into the properties of those immigrants and Chinese never shop small mom-and-pop stores owned by white owners, well knowing that they would not get the right deal.__Even me, coming from Europe, encountered a number of times that I was not well accepted. Just one example, there was a store owner who was in the Fifties or Sixtiies with the armed forces in Germany who was trying to rip me off of a few hundred dollars. Ofcourse similar things happen to foreigners here in Germany, but I think Asian's are now well accepted due to their willingness of contributing to the economy (its very different with Muslims, who mostly are not so well educated). __W9
Montaigne
January 21st, 2011 at 3:46 am
I think Justin made a mistake on the salary. The yearly average is below 5K dollars. According to his own link.
Sam
January 21st, 2011 at 4:44 am
The reality is the US are heavily indebted (14 trillions or more) and the China,Japan,the oil states and others are the bank. Who then is the paper tiger?
Jef
January 21st, 2011 at 4:49 am
The avarage rural income (farmer) is no more than around USD 150/month. The typical income of a worker in one of the 1st tier cities Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou is around USD 400/month, in the 30 2nd tier cities this is around USD 300/month while in remaining cities this will be around USD 200/month.
bozh
January 21st, 2011 at 6:21 am
china poses a great threat to u.s. ruling class' dream: obtaining the planet and developing an ideal inegalitarian structure of governance and society.
being at least hundred times stronger militarily, this class of people can afford to lecture other nations.
i call that intentionally stupid behavior. in fact, such behavior amounts to eating own heart. chinese, in secret, reply with derision or even glee that american ruling class is eating its heart out.
when u'r powerful, u can afford to exhibit arrogance. hitler, mussolini, suleiman the great, bismarck, sharon, duvalier, darius, nebuchadnezzar, et al, exemplify such behavior.
if china is developing an egalitarian society [not, of course, in utopian way] and u.s. indeed developing an antipodal structure of society to an inegalitarian one, snobbery just comes naturally to u.s. 'elite'.
the mistake may be in thinking that what onepercenters do in u.s. is a novelty. such behavior is as old as the hills! tnx
kevin michael
January 21st, 2011 at 6:41 am
China as a threat is somewhat overblown. The aircraft carriers they are building are nonexistent, outside of the one they bought from the Ukraine in 1998 and have been refitting, as it was pretty much a hull and an engine, has half the displacement of most of the ones the US has. It has been being repaired for many years, and China claims the interior is done. So over twenty years to fix a broken carrier, then how many years to build a new one? Given reverse engineering this one they have, and making a huge leap in production, and possibly parts are being built now, lets say ten years. By 2021 China may have two aircraft carriers half the size of one of the US'es.
OK, perhaps not a paper tiger, perhaps a cardboard tiger. I agree with Mr. Raimondo.
Pat Buchanan once wrote that the matador uses his/her cape to signal a threat to the bull and eventually the bull is exhausted from the constant attacking of nothing, and the matador can walk up to it and put a sword through its heart.
kevin michael
January 21st, 2011 at 6:47 am
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&rls…
the carrier, via google maps
bozh
January 21st, 2011 at 6:53 am
it is desirable that chinese earn enough money to cover heating costs; buy enough insurance; have adequate transportation, nutrition, healthcare, clothing, dentalcare– in short, only what is needed for good living.
they don't need [and hope they never get--devilgod forbid they do] cars, most elevators, escalators, electric machines, buty parlors, plastic bags, greeting cards, motorcycles, leafblowers, power mowers, yachts, planes, golf courses, casinos, and such biota destroying playthings.
my small head and her serf have a car. everytime it tell her let's get rid of it, she screams at me. and she's only 80 yrs young-old.
wld u believe that she never gets insulted because i don't buy her any card– includes even wedding anniversary and birthday cards?
the cards i get for her i seldom open. i usually lie to her and say, yes,yes, i read them! they r good for my beans, so i bury them!
btw! to get her, i had to lie a lot. that was the only way i cld get her. she believed everything i told her. tnx
jackbootstate
January 21st, 2011 at 7:45 am
Well, we'll we see if Justin's prediction of a collapse of the current regime in Beijing, a la the one in the former Soviet Union, is going to happen. I don't think it will because they have steadfastly refused to institute any kind of shock therapy the same way it was done in Eastern Europe, with the collusion of the Communist Party bosses in most case, and with the military might of the U.S. led West in the former Yugoslavia. Hence, the Chinese government's insistence on maintaining control over its currency. There are limits to how far they are willing to go with so called "liberalization", which in reality means allowing the IMF, World Bank and the rest of the global banksters take over and ruin your economy. They've drawn a line in the sand with this policy and if they hold firm they'll do fine. Albeit, with about 1 billion more mouths to feed than the U.S. It won't be easy, but as long they refuse be destabilized the way Eastern Europe was, they should be able to keep the PRC intact.
I think Justin's analysis is driven by ideological considerations. A strong state in Beijing is engaged in evil "central planning". Quick, libertarians throw up your crosses at this ghastly site and repel this abomination. It must, therefore collapse, the instrumentalist argument from the libertarians goes, much like Marxists of the past insisting that proletarian revolution was inevitable. I hope they succeed and, like Nixon, help more people become born again Keynesians. Even a guy I loath as much Nixon did one really admirable thing in his political career, and that was to piss off Friedman.
MvGuy
January 21st, 2011 at 8:14 am
W0W……….Where is the place boz resides..??
tomofsnj
January 21st, 2011 at 8:20 am
The Federal reserve holds 5 trillion dollars of US Treasuries and an unknown among of indirect US treasuries when the Federal reserve provided interest free loans to banks to purchase US Treasuries. The banks got 3 percent and the Fed got to hide at least another trillion of US debt. Why would it matter if China is a monster. China has 985 billion of our debt and they are looking at any chance of getting ride of it. I suspect that a lot of the 985 billion will be in gold or silver after the banks stop playing games with the metals by driving down the market price of gold and silver.
China does not have the insanity of our Federal reserve so they could defeat us by just selling the debt that we gave them to purchase cheap chinese trinkets. The chinese only needs to purchase the latest military equipment which our friend Israel will always be willing to sell them to be ready if the bullets ever start flying.
Madrid
January 21st, 2011 at 8:30 am
Good analysis of China and Raimondo, Jack.
Justin is not wrong on much, but when he is wrong, he does kind of go overboard. China's manufacturing base is cleaning our clock. Justin should take a drive through the Midwest– Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, and he will see who the real paper tiger is. American youth have so few options compared to what we had just 20 years ago. If a 22 year old was a wiz at school, they can join the global financial ubermensch on Wall Street or they can make a living as a lawyer or doctor, but baring those things, they can look forward to a job in the military or a lifetime of work in a big box store, Walmart, Costco, TJMAX. Computer programing used to be an option for smart ambitious American youth, but the H1B1 visa program has killed that for most native born sons.
Even 5 years ago, those men who were average students in high school could still find jobs as contractors and in construction, but the construction industry in this country won't recover for probably 20 years, if it ever recovers.
Friends of mine who do business in the middle east say that Chinese contracting is quickly replacing American contracting on big engineering projects.
There is so much missing in Justin's analysis, caused by his devotion to libertarianism. China's state managed economy is the real deal. His analysis of Japan is flawed too– Japan was held back by the limits on Japanese resources and labor. China has none of those limitations.
I am not anti-libertarianism, but it would be foolish to think that one economic-political ideology works in every context, every country throughout the world. It just so happens that state-managed capitalism WORKS in China, and Chinese manufacturing is very much an ECONOMIC (rather than a military) threat to this country.
bogi666
January 21st, 2011 at 8:51 am
Hu has dignity and it was on display to the world while the USG/MIC, Mafia Industrial Complex, embarrassed itself with its usual shamelessness, because the USG only knows unhealthy shame a condition which is the result of the pretend christians[biblical harlots] and its false doctrines[babel] trumpeted from its churches[towers of babel]. The story of Adam and Eve is the story of unhealthy shame. They were naked without shame on moment and the next moment they covered themselves, this is the introduction of unhealthy shame adopted by christians to be preached to induce people into churches to instill guilt with unhealthy shame.
MvGuy
January 21st, 2011 at 8:53 am
China IS a paper tiger………the paper the tiger is made of is money………….. Money talks and debt wastes… It's feckless competitor intangled paying $400.00 a gallon to fuel it's war machine….& It is destroying itself……… tick…tick… tick… tick… crash………………..!!
bogi666
January 21st, 2011 at 9:06 am
Shocking I tell you, that China is unwilling and won't let the IMF, World Bank and the international Corporatocry banking cartel, come into their country to destroy it. Perhaps, the Chinese knows what's better for itself than the international banking criminal cartel which would like to loot China. China's been around the world and know what the international bankers do to countries, drive them into poverty by saddling them with unplayable debts to the criminal banker. Now just why would China the world's largest lender perhaps, want to go to the world's greatest debtor nation and transfer it's wealth to the international banking criminal cartel? That some of these criminals find this offensive is no mystery and it is insulting to China.
mhstahl
January 21st, 2011 at 9:14 am
Absolute values are not very useful in comparison here, buying power is what is important along with availability of goods. Rural China is still quite agricultural, and as such no doubt operates in a barter economy at least in part, for instance. Or in the cities, if the average wage is so low, yet people survive, then rent, food, etc., must be available at that rate. The Chinese are able to capitalize on this in order to offer goods to the US at lower cost. Why shouldn't they?
In a closer example, the average wage in rural Ohio would, I suspect, not be enough to survive on in New York City. Yet while Ohio might be a basket case in a number of ways, it is not poverty stricken.
A salary that seems low in comparison does not necessarily imply poverty, there are too many unknowns to reach that conclusion.
jojo
January 21st, 2011 at 9:32 am
STOP THECRAP! Most workers in USA are luckey to make $8 bucks an hour, take home pay $3..change. What is missed by you oldfarts–NO PROPERTY TAXES, NO INCOME TAXES Hydro/diesel is dirt cheap and so is food and transportation.Get this–FREE MEDICAL CARE.
They ain't starving or losing their homes,or their kids stupid after University or two adults need to stay afloat. Try living a good life in USA at $24Gs?
Wake-up fools-look at yourselves before you start B.S.ing the sheep.
tomofsnj
January 21st, 2011 at 9:35 am
Then again who needs an aircraft carriers if they have land bases. Carpet bombing is very effective but that counts on being able to send the b52 without being shot down. Many of our victories were because we attacked with the other side having no air ability. That will not be the case with China. The thing you have to understand is the USA is broke and we cannot afford a war. Thanks to our congress we do not even product bullets for our precent wars. We sold our bullet factories and now purchase all our bullets from Israel. I mention this because we also purchase a lot of our military equipment from China. When is the last time a military without equipment won?
tomofsnj
January 21st, 2011 at 9:39 am
Actually the only one who is purchasing our debt is the federal reserve. China and I am sure everyone else holding US debt is looking for ways to get rid of what they already hold. The rate of spending is not slowing and the debt is increase by trillions a year. The USA has been broke for a long time and it cannot continue to play this game especially without foreign support. The federal reserve holds 5 trillion dollars of US treasuries along with probably a couple trillion more in a phony zero interest loans to backs to purchase a US Treasuries. The US government cannot afford to pay any interest on the debt so there is no relief from the insanity
jojo
January 21st, 2011 at 9:42 am
Ever been taught in school during history lessons regarding the BOXER revolution?
Not the truth–Prior to the revolution, England and the west were buying goods from China with Silver.Once England ran out of Silver to pay the debt,they sent in the BIBLE Thumpers, when that did not work to con the chineses to accept english/USA paper money, English started pumping tons and tons of OPIUM. Chinese got hook on it–millions of them. Like USA's tea party revolt–A English ship was riaded and the opium overboard and ship burned. USA/Eng came in with guns blazing and bombs away–killing hundreds of thousands–just not to pay the debt. Are we scums? Yes siree!
andy
January 21st, 2011 at 9:58 am
Why not just end immigration?
Madrid
January 21st, 2011 at 10:00 am
Exactly– Eastern Europe's salaries are by and large lower than the median in the US, and yet Eastern Europeans live a much better life than the average American.
Average income says even less about the power of the country as a whole. A lower average income could be construed as a strength not a weakness.
andy
January 21st, 2011 at 10:06 am
Like Japan in the 1940's, China is not now, and never will be, a threat to America. It is only a threat to the American empire in Asia and the western Pacific. China is no more a threat to America itself then it is to Mexico. If America would simply abandon its drive for global hegemony, there would be little to worry about.
MvGuy
January 21st, 2011 at 10:20 am
Good Bye L.A……. if that were to happen…
"If the Americans are determined to interfere, then we will be determined to respond," he said. "We Chinese will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all the cities east of Xian. Of course the Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds of cities will be destroyed by the Chinese."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/international/a…
Heathcliff_Maw
January 21st, 2011 at 10:27 am
If Krugman is wrong, then why did Japan become an economic superpower in the second half of the 20th century and why is China–"communist" China!–emerging as an economic superpower now? Why did South Korea elevate itself by following the Japanese model? Why has the US's manufacturing base been so badly hollowed out and our economy been shown to be a casino's house of cards that is crumbling? Why is our middle class shrinking along with its purchasing power?
These are long-term trends. Krugman isn't going to Walmart and saying, "Hey, I'm buying my stuff cheap. All is good unless I lose my job."
Centrally directed economies don't follow libertarian economic models. They don't build their economies by serving their domestic markets first and then exporting what they do best. They take advantage of Uncle Sucker by building their protectionist economies around exporting to us and stealing market share. They manufacture the technology that develops in our environment, then loan us the hundreds of billions of dollars we need to keep the military-industrial complex gravy train going. At least Japan gave us a bunch of very nice military bases to keep the American megalomaniacs happy.
RickR30
January 21st, 2011 at 10:37 am
China in an of itself may not be a problem for us. The problem is our relationship of dependence with them that puts them in a position of power vis-a-vis the US. We depend on them for almost all our goods, and we depend on them to finance us. Regardless of the voodoo economics on the surface: we buy their products with dollars, we get them to loan us those dollars back and give them some worthless paper, at bottom there must be some reality, and it's probably not pretty for the US. China plays the globalist game- they are the world's factory, but they play it well and for their benefit. Our economic idiots play it to our detriment.
RickR30
January 21st, 2011 at 10:41 am
The only glaring racism I see in the US is the one perpetrated by Asians against, well, anyone who isn't Asian.
Popsiq
January 21st, 2011 at 10:58 am
Compared to the US economy China still has a way to go. But when one considers that the greater part of the US economy is derived from services, as opposed to the production of goods, that difference becomes unimportant.
What is important now is that the Chinese find themselves in the unenviable position of having to make loans to a debtor so he can pay the interest on what he already owes. When it comes to actual 'substance' by way of debt, the Chinese should have followed the Saudi model and have demanded a 'right' to buy into America. But China has a vested interest in America's continued good health.
But should things get to the point where America fails to service her debt, no big whoop: the obligation remains, for a better, or a worse, time.
What China has that the traditional powers lack, is a massive, and as yet relatively untapped, domestic market. That is China's ace-in-the-hole.
conumishu
January 21st, 2011 at 11:56 am
Nationalism is not an ideology. In fact, all ideologies are internationalist, their natural behaviour is to spread beyond political, ethnic or national boundaries.
The bizarro language infects normal communication, there's no perfect immunity for anyone. Americans (not only them but more than ohters) are thoroughly induced to assimilate nationalism with national socialism and/or aggressive, imperial-like posture in foreign relations. National-socialim or fascism or communism (which are ideologies!)or some kind of authoritarian militarism may try to wrap their agenda inside national idenity, claim to protect or restore national interests, tickle natural pride and sense of belonging. Democracies too play the nationalist card often. Which is easy to understand if one looks at nationalism more as a cultural bedrock, at least in places where there's enough ethnic (and not only) homogenity and long standing traditions.
Forcing a major divide between patriotism and nationalism in terms of political theory means also forcing a semantic divide at the language level which simply doesn't exist.
Excessive nationalism (or patriotism for the matter) is called chauvinism, why not use the proper word then? (Still not qualifying as ideology, btw.)
Bianca
January 21st, 2011 at 12:19 pm
This is the real question. Not only that a good part of US GDP are services, but as I understand, by now 65% of it is in bank assets. Since these assets are at present listed in their paper value, as opposed to market value, the real GDP is far from known. In fact, most banks still hold off balance sheets unknown amount of paper that potentially has no value. The bank bailout wiped out only a portion of bad assets.
It is also very, very true that the massive domestic market in China has not been tapped yet. And that was deliberate, of course. For as long as the export money generating schema worked well, domestic market can wait. Also, foreign companies manufacturing in China operate there on a joint venture basis, generating profits for their Chinese counterparts. Often, those are state or local government entities, but also various authorities, such as railroad, ports, universities, or private sector. These complexities that provide for the huge profits in China are poorly understood here. And for a good reason. The fear is, it will give ideas to US beleagered taxpayer, tired of subsidizing the make-believe US corporations that are really foreign in every sense of the word.
andy
January 21st, 2011 at 12:43 pm
The Han Chinese are one of the most ethnocentric, racially conscious people in the world, for good or bad.
andy
January 21st, 2011 at 12:46 pm
If America is crazy enough to have a military-industrial complex, that can hardly be blamed on Japan or China.
muggles
January 21st, 2011 at 2:38 pm
Not only are real US wages far higher than jojo claims, but there is little or no free medical care in China. A few village clinics in remote areas. But anything resembling modern medical care, or use of other than primitive diagnostic technology or a real hospital requires full payment up front, in cash. This is one reason why their savings rates are so high. No insurance and cash on the barrel before the docs will see you. This is common knowledge and is easily verified.
liberranter
January 21st, 2011 at 4:39 pm
That's definitely an intriguing possibility. OTOH, one might also wonder whether the Chinese leadership has carefully observed the USA in the post-Cold War era and learned lessons from our self-inflicted decline. While it's true that certain historical trends do tend to inexplicably repeat themselves (one would think that every nation-state would have learned by now that empires are losing propositions), one wonders if China will avoid the temptation to reinvent some form of Rome, Britain, the USSR, or Pax Americana.
liberranter
January 21st, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Koreans and Japanese aren't far behind.
ampjack1
January 21st, 2011 at 4:45 pm
how many middles can ya get in a single "mouthpiece, #1-Atlantic,aka N.A.T.O.O, #-2,zionistic Salem 4 "gurus or # 3 the imperial middle kingdom as made famous or ?, popular in the Anglo Saxon/Arrian fantasy blockbuster,ta duh " Lord of the Rings,,,now in rackatation,kinda like the galaxy ,supposidly,centaur,proxima,"oomega,take yer pick one size fits all,in the underworld/niether,,,sic fqrsz all the way around
Boston Joe
January 21st, 2011 at 5:03 pm
There is no free medical care in China's countryside and free care has been drastically reduced in the cities. The average lifestyle of a rural resident in China is well below that of 3./hr US worker. It is a lot rougher.
MvGuy
January 21st, 2011 at 5:13 pm
I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying…however I find it a fascinating line of inquiry,,,,,, Thank You Bianca
Boston Joe
January 21st, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Good analysis of China except this:
"Periodic bouts of hysteria have plagued Chinese history, usually in the form of religious fervor, or, in the case of the Cultural Revolution, pure nihilism. The leadership lives in mortal fear of it, which is one reason why they repress the Falun Gong cult that gets so much uncomprehending sympathy in the West. "
The Cultural Revolution was not nihilims but a true revolt against the established order of Chinese stratified society- intellectuals (so called but really bureacrats), workers and peasants. Similar events are indeed feared by the government.These social divisons, a calcified reality, still exist today and whether or not the government can actually break them will help detemine if China can avoid conflict. Just as the Brahmins in India despise the untouchables Chinese intellectuals fully scorn their peasants.
Boston Joe
January 21st, 2011 at 5:26 pm
Another thought is that yes, it's true, that China currently poses no military threat to the US but thre is no doubt that it would like to fully regain Siberia. I say fully because economically it is already a dominant presence. Once it has control of its 'near abroad' it is an open question as to whether it will use military power (assuming it can develop to that level) further afield.
Heathcliff_Maw
January 21st, 2011 at 5:42 pm
I'm not blaming them.
andy
January 21st, 2011 at 9:07 pm
The last time I checked Siberia belonged to Russia, not America.
RockyRococo
January 22nd, 2011 at 12:09 am
China has a history of over 3000 years, and has never in all that time sought large imperial dominions beyond its borders, while often being the richest and most powerful nation on earth,
jack
January 22nd, 2011 at 2:57 am
have ya ever noticed in the pile of media that is so much yesterdays trash and re-cyclables , that empires only mention thare selves(BBC)when it just doesn't matter to the home crowds diet on friday or saturday "night"when really it rolls on,simaliar the mid-nite special or KC Jones,does your opinion change belt drive,or the "popular pre-concieved notion in vogue or in operational manufacture as pulp(waste)fiction,,,science may be up 4 "it,as something besides a menacing weapon of interventions neo pre mis adventure masquaraids or exspedition with nothing to show,including co-ercion or herd stampede aka 1 mass phenomanii in motion or perdictable pattern readable to a droned mentality,,,,welcome to the Notre Dame way of doin things and reading "between the lines , as directly as possibly ,per/ferred
jack
January 22nd, 2011 at 3:01 am
strategeereeia,nice 1,is that that german sh_t colinial pre way be fore manchuckadaa oo a
jack
January 22nd, 2011 at 3:05 am
actually if ya red yer happy horse sh_t before tyme ya woulda rea lised that then lizard people from within the heart and home of the milky way,need a techno cracy to maintain the lifestyle of wich the flesh is accustomed,,,,and technocracy in wich to enslave the horrors of ,???whatever???
jack
January 22nd, 2011 at 3:21 am
meanwhile back at the ranch
Dan
January 22nd, 2011 at 4:49 am
Why not H1B1 military visas for PLA? It costs a million a year to keep an American soldier road raging around Afganistan killing civilians and engendering hatred and resentment. If we subcontracted to the Chinese they could fully occupy the country at a fraction of that cost and to a far fuller extent.
We could also outsource aircraft carrier manufacture to China if they lent us the money
Boston Joe
January 22nd, 2011 at 5:35 am
Many Chinese believe Siberia was stolen from them and they want it back..
sleepy
January 22nd, 2011 at 6:07 am
It's certainly not coincidence that recent talk of a resurgent Chinese military threat arises at exactly the same time as talk about our bloated deficit and yes, horrors, some talk about cutting our military expenditures–the prime cause of the bloated deficit.
jackbootstate
January 22nd, 2011 at 6:57 am
"His analysis of Japan is flawed too– Japan was held back by the limits on Japanese resources and labor. China has none of those limitations…."
Yes, an apples to oranges comparison. China is so much much bigger than Japan that it is difficult to imagine China running out of steam as fast as Japan did after the 80's. People had better get used to a robust Chinese economy for the foreseeable future. They're not going to allow themselves to get bullied into destabilization. Whether Justin wants to face reality or not, China is the workshop of the world today.
The states of Eastern Europe didn't "fail" so much as they were murdered out of existence by the economic shock therapists in the U.S., with the collusion of the people who led those states. The one exception, Yugoslavia, resisted and was destroyed by economic and military warfare. Characterizing these states as "failed" is like observing the body of a murder victim and concluding that he "failed" to live. This idea that the U.S. led West beat the Soviet Block by going to the market in downtown and showing the world what a bunch of solid entrepreneurs we are is total nonsense. The Pentagon was the weapon that eventually did in the former Soviet Block nations. Absolutely nothing to do with market capitalism.
Generalissimo X
January 22nd, 2011 at 8:01 am
china a threat? well that depends on what you consider a threat…as far as them invading and/or making war on the usa i seriously doubt it. that said, it was disgusting to see barry obama again bow before a foreign leader like a toady. ditto the red flags lining washington..china is a totalitarian nightmare state that crushes dissent and allows for no freedom of expression. their internet is totally policed and many sites are blocked…they don't have information or an exchange of free ideas and ideals. the majority of their population is poor, and illiterate making them perfect pawns for gov't control and obedience. the culture is one that does not appreciate or really value individual liberty and autonomy. china is a threat as our corporate fascist leaders would do anything to have this model implemented in america. the tsa, patriot act, fisa, illegal wars, destruction of our republic and civil liberties are all part and parcel of this process. anyone who thinks the global elite are licking their chops over a similar fate for americans is blind and deluded.
Heathcliff_Maw
January 22nd, 2011 at 9:06 am
In Krugman's latest column ("Is China Veering into it's Own Crisis"), he says China's weak-currency policy is a lose-lose proposition. It raises unemployment here while fueling inflation there. He then discusses the detrimental effects of inflation on the Chinese economy and society. He says the solution would be to let the value of the currency rise in response to the market.
drosera
January 22nd, 2011 at 9:49 am
If China sold all its treasuries, the Fed would simply buy them. By selling them, China would lose out on whatever interest rate they were guaranteed. China would not be shortchanged, nor would the US dollar inflate (the total money supply does not change–it is like switching mortgages from one bank to another). I recommend Ellen Brown's book, "The Web of Debt" to understand the dynamics of money and credit.
drosera
January 22nd, 2011 at 9:57 am
Had to laugh about Justin's referring to Krugman as the "chief economist of bizarro world." Nobody in the administration listens to Krugman. Not to Stiglitz either. The economic successors of Friedman are in power as they have been over the last thirty years. Their decisions–low taxes, NAFTA, reduced public expenditures, the encouragement of outsourcing, ignoring debt–have shaped the trajectory of the US economy, not Krugman's. Raimondo resorts to throwing stones at people who have no influence over governmental policies.
Guest
January 22nd, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Can you provide a citation to substantiate your assertion the the U.S. has sold its bullet factories and now purchases its bullets from Israel?
Guest
January 22nd, 2011 at 2:23 pm
China has existed as a unified state for 90% of its history. It has been united in dynasties for stretches lasting hundreds of years, while periods of lawlessness have started out as decades and getting shorter since; the last period of lawlessness was 1919-1924.
The comment about gerontocracy was funny. China has mandatory retirement of politicians at 70; what's Reagan? 73 when he took power? Hu Jintao is 65, how old is Harry Reid? Ted Kennedy?
China is no threat to the US because China does not want to be a threat to the US, not because of lack of ability. If the US keeps pushing, China will hit back, just like the fat bloated bully that keeps pushing the athlete will get his ass kicked if he keeps doing it. Think your 65% services stock market paper money is worth anything in the face of 6 trillion worth of heavy industry?
Guest
January 22nd, 2011 at 2:38 pm
Too late, China is already the top automobile producer and market in the world. Transport? How do you transport without cars, planes and railroads? Elevators? The US has far less skyscrapers than China does, do you have an elevator in your home? If not then China has more elevators. Electric machinery? On the other hand, dental care and insurance are some of the most worthless things to consider for national power. I can go years without brushing my teeth, it won't be good but I'll survive. I can't go for a day without electricity or a computer. China is the top producer of electronics and industrial boilers. What are you, from 1940?
bozh
January 22nd, 2011 at 2:46 pm
bozh resides where no cia agent cld find him: in an igloo made of sand. it holds together if u let camels, donkeys [me also] piss on it first and let it harden. it keeps the house quite cool! tnx
bozh
January 22nd, 2011 at 3:28 pm
when god stops torturing u because s/he stops being amused by it or tires out, the devil takes over the job. and that cld go on forever.
in duopolic systems of rule, id est, as in u.s, where both god and the devil rule equally, surely wld go on forever.
however, if we wld kill every cleric, psychiatrist, socio-economo-political 'scientists', the duopoly wld end.
note, please, that the clerics r the last people to believe in god[s]. however, if we don't kill them or send the all to gaza, don't, please, just yet commit suicide.
wait, please, till i tell u.
a duopolic governance builds churches for godfull people and jails for godless.
china, on the other hand, builds only jails, but only for duopolic thinkers; i.e., who believe in god and the devil [and practice it, also] or in supremacism of some people and serfdom-inferiority for others- – and sing praises to that as well.
recall, they praise god and practice devilry on many people; particularly on 'aliens' or other cultists. such as? well, gazans, iraqis, et al!
i and china think monopolicly. we believe in goddevil or devilgod. it is one entity and not two separate events.
thus we allow only one party! btw, so does u.s. ruling class; unfortunately, it also builds churches for well-to-do and jails for poor people. tnx
Cytotoxic
January 22nd, 2011 at 3:29 pm
Equating America's human rights record to that of totalitarian China showcases the author's moral bankruptcy. It's actually sick. America is basically a free nation and has not killed hundreds of thousands of civilians (the vast majority are victims of terrorist bombings and sectarian militias) and even if it did it's not our moral burden but rather the moral burden of America's aggressors, such as the Taliban/AQ and Sadaam.
Boston Joe
January 22nd, 2011 at 4:41 pm
"… rather the moral burden of America's aggressors, such as the Taliban/AQ and Sadaam. "
We have tens of thousands of troops in someone else's country. Reason enough for every American to rise up if it were done to us. Smell the coffee. We are the aggressor.
Hacklheber
January 22nd, 2011 at 5:08 pm
That sounds like good advice, though it's unclear to me why cheap imports should raise unemployment locally. Don't people have anything to do all of a sudden if cheap toaster come in by the container? No so. What raises unemployment is uncertain business climate, state hoovering up all the resources, no savings thus no investment and loose monetary policies at home. Also, government intervention: http://mises.org/daily/4969 – jobless increase in manufacturing!
I always hear Krugman propelling Keynesian inflationary policies for the homeland, the guy must be sweating if the money press is standing still. So how come it's bad for China but not for the US?
Hacklheber
January 22nd, 2011 at 5:54 pm
I'm sure the descendants of Borjigin Temüjin would put in a veto on that kind of imperialism.
tomofsnj
January 22nd, 2011 at 8:58 pm
I did a quick look tonight without finding the web pages. I will look a little tomorrow. They did in the congressional study they recommend to stop funding the mothball ammunition factories. The failure to fund eliminated the ability to reopen the factories. I will admit that it was the wrong word to say sell since I do not remember them being sold but just presumed. They were clearly not funded so not available to provide ammunition. In the story they stated that the military is using some 250,000 rounds for every one that ends up killed.
rybo1
January 22nd, 2011 at 11:53 pm
Well said, Justin!
ML3
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:50 pm
I thought Bush holding hands with Saudi monarch was funnier
Olrik
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:43 pm
You americans are fat-azzed lard butts, your country is broke but most of you are too dumb to know it yet, and you can't beat a bunch of rag-wearing cavemen in a war let alone the Chinese; hollywood hasn't produced a decent movie in decades and SNL sucks; you've voted in an enemy agent provocateur as your leader; you are all lazy and don't produce/export anything of value anymore except airplanes and that will soon change; your army is now of the US of Gay and will be paralyzed from butt-lock just like in "Bruno" when they get out of their tents. You are all rural red-neck crackers in trailor parks or urban welfare retards with HIV. Your cities are old dumps with crumbling factories on the outskirts. Did I miss anything?
Heathcliff_Maw
January 24th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
I don't understand how an uncertain business climate increases unemployment. Businesses layoff and hire based on their experiences, not on speculation. Uncertainty might delay investment and new hiring (opting to give current employees overtime instead), but won't lead to layoffs.
Cheap imports increase unemployment by eroding market share for domestic competitors. China has also been luring manufacturing away from the US with cheap labor–made artificially cheaper with an undervalued yuan–though workers there have started striking for increased wages.
USAma Bin Laden
February 5th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
This is the nature of America's Global Manifest Destiny ambitions.
And it is a core issue that American patriots in general rarely question: America is the TRUE THREAT.
The millions of people that America has genocided from Vietnam to Iraq and Afghanistan clearly evidence the bloodthirsty nature of America and its propaganda lies about being a Beacon of Liberty–which in fact is nothing more than a Beacon of Lies.
But as we have seen in Egypt, where the American-backed dictator Muburak is under seige, rebellion is afoot around the world.
All empires fall. The 230-year old American Empire will surely meet the same fate some day.
Prepping Minds for War Against China http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va…