We often hear, from antiwar activists as well as pious politicians and every sort of commentator, that we should all "support the troops." No matter what one thinks of the particular war being fought, this kind of boilerplate is invariably appended: "But of course," we are told, "everyone supports the troops." We honor them for their service. We pat them on the back and say: "Good job!"
In this context, consider the details of the most recent atrocity coming out of Afghanistan, the activities of the "Thrill Kill platoon," which is accused of murdering Afghan civilians and keeping body parts as trophies. The alleged mastermind of the thrill-killers, Staff Sergeant Calvin Gibbs, is also under investigation by military authorities on suspicion of carrying out similar murders in Iraq. The Gibbs "kill team" is suspected of slaughtering at least seven Afghan civilians, and quite possibly more, in the most heinous manner imaginable. Gibbs and four others were arrested in June, and seven others are being held.
These twelve apostles of mayhem — assigned to the 2nd Stryker Brigade, and stationed at Forward Operating Base Ramrod, along the border with Pakistan — randomly chose unarmed Afghan civilians to murder. Then they shot them, or blew them up with grenades, mutilating the victims. Gibbs, the alleged ringleader, made necklaces out of the body parts. They covered up their killing spree by placing weapons near the corpses, and the incidents went down in the records as gun battles with "insurgents."
Gibbs reportedly has a tattoo on his left calf which is a pictorial record of his crime spree: it consists of two crossed pistols encircled by six skulls. According to news reports, the red skulls indicate murders carried out in Iraq, and the blue skulls represent Afghan kills.
Knowledge of the killings was widely shared in the camp, and it’s hard to imagine higher-ups were unaware of what
was going on. But there was indeed one apparently unwilling participant, Adam Winfield, who desperately tried to reach out to his parents, to whom he confessed the murders.
The "honor the troops" brigade will tell us this is just another case of a few bad apples: this latest incident is no reason to condemn the entire US military – is it?
Well, quite frankly, it is, because, as Winfield pointed out to his parents in a February 14 Facebook posting: "Pretty much the whole platoon knows about it. It’s okay with all of them pretty much. Except me…. I want to do something about it [but] the only problem is I don’t feel safe here telling anyone." "I talked to someone," Winfield continued, "and they told me this stuff happens all the time and that when we get back there is always someone that spills the beans so it normally works its way out."
Winfield’s father asked, "No one else thought it was wrong?" Winfield’s reply:
"No, everyone just wants to kill people at any cost, they don’t care, the Army is full of a bunch of scumbags, I realized."
Winfield resigned his position as the platoon’s team leader because "I cannot be a leader in a platoon that allows this to happen." He went on to make a key point:
"There are no more good men left here…. I started to think whether I should quit and just give up because it’s stupid to get smoked in Afghanistan. The Army really let me down when I thought I would come out here to do good, maybe make some change in this country…. I find out that it’s all a lie."
None of this would have come out if not for an investigation into alleged drug use by soldiers. Investigators uncovered widespread and rampant drug use, including hashish, opium, and anti-depressants which are issued by the military: in the course of their investigation, one of the thrill-killers – apparently under the influence at the time – spilled the beans. In addition, Winfield’s parents made repeated calls to military authorities immediately upon learning of this horror, but before I get to any of that I want to underscore Winfield’s words:
"There are no more good men left here."
Of course there aren’t. What kind of person joins the military at this particular point in time – a point when the US is engaged in endless wars of aggression, and stories of atrocities committed by "our" soldiers are coming out all the time? For the most part, precisely the kind of person who would delight in the orgy of bloodlust conducted by the "thrill kill platoon." The military has become an outlet for the sociopaths in our midst.
Yes, I know, with the recession people will be joining for economic reasons: after all, where else can they find a job?
Economic considerations no doubt play a large part in the decision to go into the military, but other factors also play a part in making this choice: alongside economic necessity, in this instance, is the generalized knowledge that atrocities are being committed over there. Winfield says the whole platoon knew about what was going on with the "thrill killers," and the same can be said about the entire country when it comes to atrocities being committed in Iraq and Afghanistan by US troops, and I don’t just mean Abu Ghraib. This grisly record is common knowledge, and, in deciding to join up, the prospective US soldier is consciously choosing to ignore or downplay the moral aspects of being asked to commit atrocities: it’s much more important to him (or her) to make a living.
This is the definition of a moral monster.
There was a time, not so long ago, when the decision to seek a career in the military did not involve becoming such a monster. That time has long since passed. To put on an American uniform today is to become complicit in a criminal enterprise, and this characterization is not by any means limited to the thrill-killer platoon but to the entire killing machine deployed to carry out Washington’s grand design.
When Winfield’s parents contacted US military authorities they were told nothing could be done unless Winfield came forward in Afghanistan – where his life was at risk. The others suspected him of being "soft," and threats had already come in from the thrill-killers that if he squealed his life was worth nothing: the ringleader waved the finger of a dead Afghan in his face to illustrate the point. The day he learned of the situation his son was in – Valentine’s Day, a Sunday — Winfield’s father left message on the Army Inspector General’s hotline, the Army’s criminal investigations division, and the office of Sen. Bill Nelson, Democrat of Florida.
The response was nil. A few days later, Private Winfield was forced by his sergeant to engage in yet another random murder: Winfield says he aimed high and missed, but the military is still charging him in the killing.
The Army knew what was going on. As that officer said to Winfield, this sort of thing goes on all the time. It’s part of our "footprint," even in areas where we aren’t engaged in military operations. Where US military bases exist, murders and rapes committed by US military personnel are common: the bases themselves are ringed with bars, houses of prostitution, and other less-than-savory establishments, catering to the thuggish tastes and habits of our centurions as they guard the perimeters of the American empire. These bases are running sores on the faces of our client states and protectorates, and, as in Japan, immensely resented ambassadors of ill will.
So what can we do about it? Short of getting the US out of Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention the rest of the world, the antiwar movement can engage in an aggressive campaign of counter-recruitment. This latest atrocity, which has been downplayed by the US media, should be publicized extensively, in tandem with a focused effort to persuade young people not to join up. If the media is running "public service announcements" and ads promoting military service, we should run counter-ads – and take full advantage of the controversy when the networks refuse to run them.
The US military is a criminal enterprise, just as the ruling elite in this country is the equivalent of a crime syndicate: and they are getting away with murder. One day, the people’s justice will be visited on them. Let’s hope that rough justice doesn’t unfairly impact us all.
The US is exporting its sociopaths overseas, in hopes that the havoc such people usually wreak can be put to some "good" use, but such callousness will soon blow back in our faces when Johnnie-the-thug comes marching home. We’ve already seen a spate of vicious murders committed by just-released veterans of the Iraq and Afghan wars: mental illness is rife among these veterans, and a disproportionately large segment is turning violent. More worrisome, gang members are reportedly joining in droves, and being accepted because the military is desperate to make its recruiting quota. They are boasting that when they come back, trained to kill by professionals, they’ll be in good shape to continue their criminal activities on the home front.
It will be a harsh justice indeed as these deranged killers visit the same sort of destruction on us as they inflicted on their innocent victims overseas.
NOTES IN THE MARGIN
I’ll be speaking at California Lutheran University’s Lundring Events Center with Reason magazine senior editor Brian Doherty, author of Radicals for Capitalism, a delightfully comprehensive history of the modern libertarian movement on October 26 from 5:30p.m.-7:30p.m. The forum, with the topic "Anti-Interventionism: The Left and Right Wing Traditions," is being hosted by the Steven and Susan Woskow Trust and co-sponsored by Students for Liberty, the World Can’t Wait, Ventura County Libertarian Party, Center for Equality & Justice, and Antiwar.com. The event is free and open to the public, but space is limited so please RSVP to secure your seat: Steven Woskow at 805-306-1860.
The autumn Antiwar.com speaking tour is still shaping up, on both coasts, and I’ll announce events in this space as they are finalized. There’s still time to book me at your campus or local event: for more information, email wendy@antiwar.com.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013
- Boycott Israel? – May 9th, 2013
- Carla del Ponte’s Faux Pas – May 7th, 2013





liberranter
October 7th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
The US is exporting its sociopaths overseas, in hopes that the havoc such people usually wreak can be put to some "good" use, but such callousness will soon blow back in our faces when Johnnie-the-thug comes marching home. We’ve already seen a spate of vicious murders committed by just-released veterans of the Iraq and Afghan wars: mental illness is rife among these veterans, and a disproportionately large segment is turning violent. More worrisome, gang members are reportedly joining in droves, and being accepted because the military is desperate to make its recruiting quota. They are boasting that when they come back, trained to kill by professionals, they’ll be in good shape to continue their criminal activities on the home front.
And don't forget to mention the growing number of these psychopathic, PTSD-addled thugs who, once discharged from the army or deactivated as reservists, become "law enforcement officers" and wreak the same kind of havoc, death, and destruction at home upon innocent civilians that they do in a foreign war zone.
Let it be repeated again and again: Afghanistan and Iraq are merely training grounds for the Empire's uniformed thugbots, brainwashed and programmed monsters that they intend to unleash upon us here at home!
JLS
October 7th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
"The military has become an outlet for the sociopaths in our midst."
Well, at least the ones who aren't already on our local police forces.
Robert shule
October 7th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
kudos Justin Raimondo for exposing the elephant in the room! I've been trying to say that here in Norfolk Virginia for years, but this being a military town not too many are willing to listen. Hopefully you will get more of an audience.
p.s. check out the "killology" website by Lt.Col Grossman, the one time army psychologist who was in charge of training troops during the Vietnam era.
MoT
October 7th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
I've said it countless times… When will someone do a study and find out just how many of these people end up in police departments across the country and thereafter commit violence on the general public? I venture that the numbers would raise eyebrows.
davidgrayling
October 7th, 2010 at 11:17 pm
Yeah, when Americans try to take their country back from the corporations and the politicians, those who have been trained to kill then sent to Iraq and Afghanistan will be ready to handle any dissent.
It's ironic, really, that the country that has gone around the world wantonly killing since WW2 will eventually have to kill its own citizens to keep them in line.
The American Empire will eat itself!
http://www.dangerouscreation.com
bogi666
October 7th, 2010 at 11:43 pm
You've got it right. It is so obvious that these sociopaths are being trained to kill for use eventually domestically and the gullible, ignorant American population are conditioned into mindlessness by the institutions of government, businesses, and pretend christian churches[towers of babel], and phony preachers[harlots] with false doctrines they don't have a clue. The institutionalization of mindlessness gives it legitimacy and creates peer pressure for mindlessness. These PTSD troops are denied benefits starting with the Pentagon discharging them because of preexisting conditions which prevent them from receiving VA benefits. It's almost as if the USG wants sociopaths available for future uses, in the USA.
Duglarri
October 7th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
Interesting to recall that back in 1992, two members of Canada's elite Airborne Regiment beat a Somali teenager to death, and subsequently, the soldiers went to jail, the government fell, and the regiment itself, an institution with a proud history, was recalled, packed up, and disbanded. That's what civilized countries with civilian control of their military forces do when the psychopaths we employ to kill for us get out of hand.
However, it is also to be noted that around the same time, there were pretty solidly confirmed stories of French Legionnaires gleefully gunning down refugees for target practice, and their regiments exist to this day.
James
October 8th, 2010 at 12:14 am
"And don't forget to mention the growing number of these psychopathic, PTSD-addled thugs who, once discharged from the army or deactivated as reservists, become "law enforcement officers" and wreak the same kind of havoc, death, and destruction at home upon innocent civilians that they do in a foreign war zone"
Sorry Liberranter, no sympathy here. It is almost one and the same. The flag waving morom]ns who elected 2 war criminals to the WH and the enire house in both chambers deserve what they chose.
gerryhiles
October 8th, 2010 at 12:46 am
I used to think that the British and French empires were the worst possible.
I used to think that the Roman Empire was one of the worst things that ever happened to humanity.
I used to think that the insane Alexander the (ungreat) was about the worst in human history.
I was wrong.
Now we have the Washington Empire, which wants total world hegemony and total control over its own citizens.
Nothing like this has ever happened before
Septimus
October 8th, 2010 at 12:58 am
"I honestly beliwve there are afew GOOD apples in the troops only"
If someone said, "I honestly believe there only a few GOOD apples among Muslims", it would sound like bigotry to you, as it should, because it is.
So why is YOUR generalization about soldiers more accurate?
We all want our own generalizations to be accurate, don't we? The tendency to stereotype large groups of people, to put them all in a box and slap a label on them, seems to be as universal as it is dangerously unfair.
Even an epidemic of thuggish behavior by soldiers doesn't necessarily mean that the MAJORITY are thugs. I'm guessing that there are many military families out there who are proud of their multiple generations of service, and don't appreciate being lumped in with the sociopaths.
Septimus
October 8th, 2010 at 1:03 am
"I honestly beliwve there are afew GOOD apples in the troops only"
If someone said, "I honestly believe there only a few GOOD apples among Muslims", it would sound like bigotry to you, as it should, because it is.
So why is YOUR generalization about soldiers more accurate?
We all want our own generalizations to be accurate, don't we? The tendency to stereotype large groups of people, to put them all in a box and slap a label on them, seems to be as universal as it is dangerously unfair.
Even an epidemic of thuggish behavior by soldiers doesn't necessarily mean that the MAJORITY are thugs. I'm guessing that there are many military families out there who are proud of their multiple generations of service, and don't appreciate being lumped in with the sociopaths.
GradyWilson
October 8th, 2010 at 2:54 am
Thanks for taking on this topic Justin. I'm with you 100% on this. The 'Support the Troops' propaganda has sadly worked very well and permeated our society. The US military is a criminal enterprise indeed and sociopaths are welcome. Funny that you would would agree with the Weather Underground (which you demean) on this.
Maybe calling them 'baby killers' instead of 'heroes' is the only way to combat the 'Support the Troops' propaganda since its true.The Marines were at my son's HS football game last week seeking fresh meat and selling the military life as fun and adventurous – hopefully I'll have the backbone to call them 'baby killers' if they are there tonight. Because we all know they are. Its time to quit pretending that they are 'fighting for our freedom' like the idiot Tea Baggers do.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 4:44 am
On the subject of how a psychopath can get away with a series of "small" crimes because they go unnoticed in the context of a state's "big" crime, I recommend the only film Peter Lorre has directed, "Der Verlorene ("Lost Man" in English – more info at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044188/ ).
It is highly ironic that those men will be judged by the very institution that enabled them to commit crimes and that they in the end probably risk less than Bradley Manning. Given that they have committed crimes against civilians, they should be prosecuted in a regular, not military court, and why not an Afghan court?
jojo
October 8th, 2010 at 4:52 am
Septimus please explain–why does the military courts always–no matter how bad the crime–not guilty due to not enough evidence. How many troops have been hung for crimes? None!
How many politicians who lied to invade two innocent countries have hung? None!
How many citizens like yourself that supported kook politicians ,have shut-up for good? None :^/
jojo
October 8th, 2010 at 5:47 am
Ever wondered how America acquired Hawaii?
Then it was National Fruit Growers now it's Exxon Boys
if only we low lifers can clean up the media– then few Ugly Americans would hang!
Greg
October 8th, 2010 at 5:58 am
Considering Raimondo's piece was an attempt to dispell the generalization of our troops being good, I find your comment to be deeply ironic.
Don't get me wrong, I am with you here. Everyone attempts to generalize because it is part of our nature. There's nothing wrong with it and, in fact, generalization is something our brain does naturally and without it, we'd be lost in a complex world with no idea how to act. The problem comes when we hold on to our generalizations when applying them to specific cases, and when we hold on to them in the face of evidence to their falsehood.
Montaigne
October 8th, 2010 at 7:36 am
Yes. Already the handling of Tagubas report on torture in Abu Ghraib, one could easily recognize, how scoundrels among leaders tried to get at him instead, and of course he had to resign prematurely too. It was a CLEAR signal to everyone in those circles: SHUT UP AND CLOSE YOUR EYES AND EARS, OR ELSE!!!
San Fernando Curt
October 8th, 2010 at 7:50 am
Maybe most of Winfield's comrades kept silent because they were afraid to speak up. If his life was in danger for reporting these crimes while still in-country, wouldn't their's be, as well? Here's a suggestion: Maybe the military doesn't recruit sociopaths. Maybe everyday young men and women are turned into monsters by the stress of combat, by the horror of war. Maybe they always have been. You've set out a fine case for demonizing out of hand every veteran of these unending wars, just as "Vietnam veteran" became synonym for "baby killer". Septimus is right: Your generalization is indefensible.
Stu Piddy
October 8th, 2010 at 7:58 am
American troops have always been trained Morons. They come from the stock of Morons called "The American People" who are the dumbest living things on the planet Earth.
We would be better off with a Snickers Bar as President. Trading our senators and congressman for a furnace to represent us.
hardtruth
October 8th, 2010 at 8:39 am
"I'm guessing that there are many military families out there who are proud of their multiple generations of service, . "
I see, And which military "operations" are they proud of their participation in, exactly?
Mezenc
October 8th, 2010 at 9:35 am
Half way into reading this I got a call from Emily's List asking for a donation. Boy, did that lady get an earful. I told her the Democrats were useless, including Democratic women. I told her I'd heard Rachel Corrie's aunt get through to a c-span call-in (the only way that family got any media) to say that they had tried to get their home state senators, both women, both Democrats, Cantwell and Murray, say something about Israel killing Rachel with a bulldozer. They got nothing. The 2 Democratic women worms would say nothing.
The lady from Emily's List told me she was a "military mother" and 3 of her children are in the military. Did she think I would praise her and them?
The lady tells me to "think of the average person." ???? What is that supposed to mean? I should care about extending unemployment benefits for people who are probably revelling in the US killing Muslims. To hell with them.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 10:12 am
Maybe everyday young men and women should know prior to enlisting that war is horrible and that only monsters enlist to experience the horrors of war. Nazi soldiers had the excuse of being conscripted. American empire soldiers have no excuse.
The military are morons. Latin America juntas, the Chinese with tanks on Heavenly Peace Square, Budapest, Prague, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki… Only morons obey immoral orders because, hey, it is their duty. The military are morons everywhere in the world. American morons kill more people than others, just because they can.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 10:22 am
And, young men and women enlist because they are immature. Mature people not doing everything they can to dissuade youngsters from enlisting are simply criminals.
Septimus
October 8th, 2010 at 10:25 am
You're not making a fair comparison. Corruption among politicians and cover-ups by military decision-makers don't add up to "all the troops are sociopaths". This article is about the lowly troops, not the bigwigs in positions of power.
Septimus
October 8th, 2010 at 10:43 am
I can't answer for them. I can only speculate.
Perhaps many of them don't evaluate the specific combat operations as much as they should, and serve simply because they believe it's their duty. Maybe their patriotism renders them insufficiently critical of the decision-makers. But that's very, very different than saying they're all violent, amoral sociopaths.
andy
October 8th, 2010 at 10:54 am
The Roman empire was the worst thing that happened to humanity? What kind of government would you have expected 2,000 years ago? Rome built roads, bridges, aqueducts etc..
San Fernando Curt
October 8th, 2010 at 10:54 am
Ooo… what a broad brush of condemnation you wield.
San Fernando Curt
October 8th, 2010 at 10:58 am
Blah, blah, blah. So dumb we put men on the moon and got them back alive. Makes you wonder why the rest of the world is kicking in the gates to transfer themselves here – legally or not.
Septimus
October 8th, 2010 at 10:59 am
"The problem comes when we hold on to our generalizations when applying them to specific cases, and when we hold on to them in the face of evidence to their falsehood"
Problems can arise long before we see actual evidence of the inaccuracy of our generalizations. Multitudes have been harmed long before any such evidence emerged. People can be made to believe dangerous propaganda, which then facilitates a process of generalization on a mass scale, with tragic results. In such cases, terrible wrongs are committed BEFORE there's a chance to question the generalizations that led to the atrocities. The point is, people should question their kneejerk generalizations; having "no idea how to act" is still better than committing wrongful acts.
Septimus
October 8th, 2010 at 11:07 am
It would be interesting to know if, historically, there has been a similar amount of shameful behavior among conscripts as among volunteers.
If it's roughly the same, then you're right: It's the hell of combat that makes the sociopath.
If the percentage is much higher among volunteers, then Raimondo has unwittingly made a convincing argument for conscription.
James
October 8th, 2010 at 11:21 am
Learn statistics moron.
James
October 8th, 2010 at 11:31 am
BULLSHIT. They create the terrible atrocities of war. And even if waht you say has any truth to it, are you still "proud of the troops"? Get real man.
If this was done to the Americans you would not hear the end of it, look at 9-11 for starters.
Dr.Khan
October 8th, 2010 at 11:31 am
A true soldier fight in the battle against a competent enemy.After Taliban can anyone explain who the Enemy is.Obviously it is the whole AFGHANS.
Now I fairly ask one question.After reading such article,should I not take up weapon and not become a Taliban.
The only reason the war in Afghanistan will go on and will be lost one day by the invaders is just because of such crimes committed against innocent people.
So go on make more ornaments of the human remains and let see where it ends.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
A former military?
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
I've already suggested it as a reading to a member of Antiwar, http://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Child-Valerio-Mas…. I've done my time in military service as a conscript, I have military in my family, people who feel good only in a society organised as a hierarchy have a problem not only with their brethren but with God himself. It is a negation of the free will we were supposed to be granted with by our Creator.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
And yes, "Raimondo has unwittingly made a convincing argument for conscription". Agree 100%.
Septimus
October 8th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
So what are the stats, professor?
Let me guess: You'll tell me to "google" it, because you haven't got a clue yourself.
San Fernando Curt
October 8th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Sweet potato pie?
San Fernando Curt
October 8th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Deploring our wars doesn't mean demonizing our troops. There are 2.1 million who've been through the mill of our 21st century empire-building. Let's pray they're not all lunatic killers; if they are, their next targets may be us.
Phil Giraldi
October 8th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
I have to confess to being really conflicted about this post. I was a draftee GI during Vietnam (though I did not fight in Vietnam). We were all about twenty years old and, when it came to the world, dumber than fence posts. Do I think that my former Army buddies would have done some of the stuff that has been surfacing in Iraq and Afghanistan (and at My Lai)? No. But then again I have no idea what would happen if someone were shooting at me and them and some stupid crap started to take place with civilians in the middle. I believe today's soldiers are pretty much like my generation of soldiers except that they, as professionals, probably have a much stronger us vs. them identification than we had. I find it hard to call either them or my former comrades baby killers or sociopaths because in my gut I just do not feel that it is so. Back then most of us were poor bastards caught up in something regarding which they had little or no understanding and I suspect it's pretty much also true today.
Phil Giraldi
October 8th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
(continuation): I know I am not expressing this very well, but I think the whole situation of being a soldier in wartime is a lot more complex that some of the comments appearing above suggest. If you have some problem with Wall Street and imperialism okay, but I have a tough time relating that to some poor grunt from Kansas who is humping a rifle because he was unemployed.
Ike Hall
October 8th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
It's a fair question. Only you can decide what to do, but there are no good choices in war. I believe resistance to invasion is just, but that doesn't make it easy. It might be best to try to leave.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
I wanted to reply "uhhh, doh" to "sweet potato pie" but I think your illness is more serious than I thought. Anyone volunteering in the US military is like anyone volunteering in the Wehrmacht, A LUNATIC KILLER. You get the idea? James, I second you.
Jamal
October 8th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
I don't support the troops. Anybody who joins at this point is part of the problem. Not against military as a national defense force in general, just what it is today in America.
fedupandsick
October 8th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Fighting an unjust war because you're poor doesn't change the fact that it's an unjust war. If you know and you still join, you're exactly what Justin says you are.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
OK, maybe I should explain differently. Back in 1990, I was listed in the Yugoslav reserve. I got a convocation for "training". I learnt that I would have to defend Tito, the revolution and socialist self-management. A dead dictator, a bloody orgy and a failed system definitely weren't things I was willing to sacrifice my life for though I'd be willing to sacrifice my life in order to protect the ones I love. Now tell me, what values do American soldiers defend?
San Fernando Curt
October 8th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Are they ever lucky you're not their judge and jury! And, still, whether or not I'm an ex-serviceman is much your business as it is relevant to this issue. Doh!
Septimus
October 8th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
(sorry for the double posting)
Henry_Clemens
October 8th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Support the troops? SUPPORT THE TROOPS?!!! Hell, I'm much more worried about the tens of millions who have been thrown out of their homes, the tens of millions who have permanently lost their jobs and the tens of millions who would starve to death if they weren't getting food stamps. WHO WILL SUPPORT THEM? Eliminating one trillion dollars worth of wasteful military/intelligence/security spending each year and diverting that money to rebuilding the American economy would certainly go a long way toward helping long-suffering Americans get back on their feet. This November, vote ALL encumbents out of office. If they weren't part of the solution then they must have been the cause of all of America's disastrous economic problems. Get rid of all of the encumbent fearmongering, warmongering, Wall Street bribe-taking liars, thieves and murderers! I'm sick to death of the whole damned lot of them. If you feel the same way, then give this comment a thumbs-up.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
You watch too much TV. I don't care a bit about judicial US series. I don't judge. I leave that to our Lord. You'd be surprised of how much clemency I am willing to accord to even the gravest sinners. Contrary to Americans, I'm willing to talk grievances through the night, the next day, the next night… I'm not anybody's judge or jury. I don't give lectures about morality. Whatever people do in their bedrooms is none of my business as long as it's done between consenting adults. But coming in the line of fire of some moron who imagines he's playing a video game is my business.
Child murderers are everybody's business and everybody's problem.
Septimus
October 8th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
"If you know"
That's the key phrase.
Some people aren't intellectually curious. Some people believe what they're told or what they want to hear. Still others may have considered the same arguments for America's wars that you have, both pro and con, and drew a different conclusion than you about the merits of those wars.
You and Raimondo are assuming that all prospective soldiers have come to the same conclusions about the virtues, or lack thereof, of these wars. No wonder you believe soldiers are evil, rather than misguided.
Are all volunteer soldiers sociopaths? A better analysis might be that many are simply brainwashed. There are more brainwashed people in society at any given time than there are murderous sociopaths (one would hope).
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
Thou shalt not kill.
That merits reflection before you do it. Level of literacy notwithstanding.
San Fernando Curt
October 8th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
" I don't give lectures about morality,,,"
(!)
San Fernando Curt
October 8th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
At least occasionally – themselves.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
I've grown up in a Paris suburb ghetto. So my question is, where would they be more at risk to defend themselves, at home or half globe away from home? Brass knuckles and folding blades were usual accessories where I grew up. I never owned either and I'm still alive and kickin'. Defendin' themselves in Iraq or Afghanistan, you're pathetic.
San Fernando Curt
October 8th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
Do you oppose the war? Or just deny reality?
Septimus
October 8th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
The war in Afghanistan is often sold by depicting the brutal, barbaric acts of the Taliban and using 9-11 to demonstrate the need to prevent al-Quaida from re-establishing sanctuary there.
I think it's safe to assume that some soldiers sign up because they truly believe they should be "fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here", and because they see themselves as the only ones who can protect innocent Afghans from savages. Raimondo asserts it's the soldiers who are the savages, but I still cling to the notion that many feel righteous about what they signed up for.
fedupandsick
October 8th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Wow dude, you are a tool. Yeah, the less "intelletually curious" may have indeed come to different conclusions about the war than I have. I stand corrected. What's your opinion on america's wars by the way? You never seem to have one. How convinient.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
"Thou shalt not kill" women and children who have done you no harm is a lecture about morality? Oh' sorry, they're just collateral damage, you regret it but you had to do it in order to protect yourself. So you just had to blow them to smithereens to save your miserbale filthy mercenary life..
Jamal
October 8th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
If you joined on 9/12/2001, I'll give you a pass. If you join today, you deserve to be stigmatized. The era of 9/11 victimization is over. It's up to the antiwar movement to let society know that military enablers are part of the problem. I say increase the antiwar discussion to include accurate portrayals of people who are voluntarily joining the aggression.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Did you read what I wrote? You know about William Blake? In essence, he wrote that he preferred Lucifer to Christ because Lucifer had the courage to fulfil his fantasies. You are denying reality, not me. And yes, I oppose the war. I oppose wars. Opposing wars is denying reality?
Jamal
October 8th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
You were drafted. These people are volunteering. There's a big difference in culpability. It was wrong to attack Vietnam vets for what the US was doing in the Vietnam because those soldiers had no choice about it. Modern day soldiers have a choice.
People make bad decisions for all sorts of reasons. People who are raised in violent homes and commit violent crimes are not given a pass. Why should people who volunteer for this war?
hardtruth
October 8th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
"Perhaps many of them don't evaluate the specific combat operations as much as they should, and serve simply because they believe it's their duty."
"Maybe their patriotism renders them insufficiently critical of the decision-makers."
Hitler wasn't a monster, he was a man. The monster was the collective obedience of Hitler's commands.
"But that's very, very different than saying they're all violent, amoral sociopaths. "
Are you suggesting adopting violent socipathic behaviours as an act of uncritical obedience rather than for perverse selfgratification to be moral?
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 4:35 pm
I agree. Two of my friends, including the one whose sons shall hate me if they don't like their fist names, became eager for military after watching "Officer and Gentleman". Young people want right. Old j*rks manipulate them. So talk to them, talk, talk, talk, talk… and talk. Young people require patience. Patience is the mother of virtue. Youngsters have no patience. I'll repeat myself again "Mature people not doing everything they can to dissuade youngsters from enlisting are simply criminals". Explain them it's not right.
thoughtbell
October 8th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Howard Zinn said that the problem with war is that it corrupts. It's not that all these young men are psychopaths, though some are, it's that there's a psychological tipping point. I don't think directing rage at them is quite the answer, though "support our troops" is a piece of manipulative propaganda. While it's obvious to us that "the news" is stacked-up lies, I know experienced adults who haven't been able to see into those boxes. Plenty of young men just haven't got a clue, and they've never been told they should have. It's tragic that they find out so late.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 8th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Well Phil, it makes us two with the exact same reasoning. A Serb and a Muslim… Thank you Jamal.
Lowry
October 8th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
You guys are scum. I did 27 months in Iraq and risked my life, as well as other members of my platoon to flush out insurgents in battle stricken bloody neighborhoods of Baghdad, Baqouba and Mosul so residents could return to their homes. With no help to you pussies, they eventually returned home. You can generalize an entire group of people who want to serve a cause greater than themselves and risk their lives for it, whether you agree to it or not, over some bad apples but I bet you wouldn't dare make a generalization about an entire racial group or ethnicity based off of their drug dealers, pimps and terrorists.
So it goes both ways. A few american soldiers committ war crimes, all american soldiers are sociopath criminals. A few islamic terrorists committ terrorist acts against civilians, all of islam is terrorist. Prison population has a high count of blacks, all black people are criminals. It can go both ways you liberal pussies. Practice what you preach.
Dr.Khan
October 8th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
People has taken us all wrong for all worng reasons.Indeed we are a nation of our own like yours in the west we have culture,faith and social norms which may seem rediculous to you but thats how the world is so colorful.I wish leaving was the best in my interest but what about the whole nation should they all leave.
The only genera to leave Afghanistan is the intruders,and if not volunteerily you know how they will leave.
andy
October 8th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
You make some good points in your commentaries. I do think Americans TEND to be more gullible then people in other countries. I cite the historical record. Look how the yellow jouralism about Sspain was swallowed. Or the Wellington house baloney about the Kaiser-Reich. The Tonkin-gulf "attack" (which someone failed to kill, wound or injure one single service member). The bogus story about babies being taken out of incubators in the lead up to the gulf war. Not to mention the WMD nonsense.
andy
October 8th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
I can't agree. There is no draft now. That alters EVERYTHING.
Strider55
October 8th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Justin makes a passing reference to counter-recruiting, but that movement has been a colossal flop — IMHO, because it attempts to counter the government's emotional appeals to patriotism, the flag, adventure, etc. with cold facts & logic. That approach might work on Vulcan, but it won't work here. The antiwar crowd needs to attack the enemy on its own PR turf, and an excellent method would be satirical humor. Any ad agent will tell you that humor sells almost as well as sex does, and make no mistake, we are talking about selling something here — in this case, the anti-military message.
Here's the type of counter-recruiting campaign I suggest: Adapt the auto ads featuring the congenital liar Joe Isuzu to the message. Those commercials were hilarious, and they succeeded — Isuzu sales went way up. If possible, hire the actor who played Joe to reprise the role, this time in an Army uniform. Then produce spots such as the following (feel free to submit your own ideas here):
1. "GI Joe Recruiter" spouting lies about bonuses, tuition assistance, job opportunities and the like, preferably documented lies told by actual recruiters.
2. "General Joe" telling whoppers about the wars strikingly similar to the actual words of Petraeus, McChrystal and other high-ranking officers.
3. "Doctor Joe" exaggerating about the quality of military medical care, especially as regards PTSD.
4. "Sergeant Joe" spouting off about how great life is on the front lines while he shoots innocent civilians, and severely wounded or dead GIs are carried off around him.
5. Joe as a traumatized, severely disabled veteran claiming how happy he is to have served, surrounded by VA assistance request forms stamped "CLAIM DENIED".
As in the original ads the truth is shown in subtitles and Joe ends each spiel with the tagline "You have my word on it."
At the same time, a Web site is created that puts all the counter-recruiting facts in writing, and each spot ends with "Get the facts at militarylies.org" (I just checked — that URL is available).
It's unlikely any MSM outlet would air these spots. In that case, post them on YouTube, this site, LewRockwell.com and similar places.
If this campaign works, generals, recruiters and other military spokesmen will become objects of ridicule and sarcastic laughter. The instant one of them or a recruiting ad appears on TV the viewer's instinctive reaction will be to shout "LIAR!" at the screen. I'm sure there are many antiwar types who are experts in advertising, PR, cinematography and the other essential skills; let's turn their talents & imaginations loose!
MikeC
October 8th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
I can concur with this. A year ago my nephew, a normal, average kid was given the fun and adventure talk by some old high school friends home on leave from Iraq. He was out of work and to my chagrin joined the Army. Before he left he was saying to me and my brothers, all very anti-military and of course VERY anti-war that it was for the money and this and that. He came back a few months later talking some of the most racist crap about subhuman enemies and fantasy land scenarios that always ended with Taliban fighters coming down Main Street.
I don't think the Miliary knows it's ass from a post, they're feared and sometimes effective because of overkill and because we can outspend anybody, but one thing they are is world class brainwashers.
liberranter
October 8th, 2010 at 11:33 pm
Leave it to a uniformed agent of the state to spew forth the "few bad apples" line of BS. How perfectly predictable.
Go bark that nonsense up some other tree, loser.
liberranter
October 8th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Rome built roads, bridges, aqueducts etc.
And even today, many of those same roads, bridges, and aqueducts built over two millennia ago are actually still at least partially functional. That's more than we can say for many of the same equivalent structures built with the Amerikan Empire only within the last sixty years or so.
liberranter
October 8th, 2010 at 11:43 pm
Makes you wonder why the rest of the world is kicking in the gates to transfer themselves here – legally or not.
That's easy – because we've evolved a welfare system that's becoming second to none on earth, one's that's ineptly administered, rife with corruption and fraud, and easy to take advantage of.
mickperry
October 9th, 2010 at 12:50 am
Phil, I thought of your remarks as I was watching this interview with the soldier who pulled the two children out of the van as shown in the Wikileaks Appache attack video, so here it is in case you missed it: http://www.democracynow.org/2010/10/7/iraq_war_ve…
I think Chomsky makes a good point when he says 'Support The Troops' is a meaningless slogan. Like saying 'I support the people of Iowa', it doesn't mean anything, but rather serves to distract us from focusing on actual issues and policies; in this instance the conscious process of brutalisation and indoctrination which the military puts these young men through.
James
October 9th, 2010 at 3:29 am
Hi Vojkan, having an argument with 2 types of people is an exercise in futility. 1)American ool aid "they hate us for our freedumb" drinkers and 2)Mossad megaphonies. The first frusatrates you out of sheer ignorance and stupidity and the second to deflect and Obfuscate. No hope.
Best is to learn how to ignore them after exposing thier motives.
Jeremiah
October 9th, 2010 at 7:53 am
Not all of them are sociopaths; a goodly number are well-meaning fools and dupes. But I wonder just how many of these fall into the easy path of banal evil when faced with atrocities regarded by their fellow soldiers as normative. A few ultimately don't: witness, for instance, Bradley Manning and Adam Winfield. But such persons are undoubtedly rare in the ranks.
And you ought to pause and ask yourself precisely *who* and *what* shattered those Iraqi neighborhoods—what caused them to be riddled with "insurgents"—before you make claims of having nobly risked your life for the sake of their residents. One more apposite question to ask yourself: what *precisely* is this *cause greater than yourselves* that you and certain other soldiers claim to be serving? Is it Empire? A foreign lobby? The continued well-being of the military-industry complex? Do you really believe that you serve American Liberty or perhaps even God by invading lands that offer little or no danger to your countrymen at home, even as innocents die needlessly and the last embers of our freedom are doused in the name of "homeland security"? Or is making blood libations at the altar of Ares, without reason or apology or end, the greatest and most glorious of all causes?
And while you're doling out epithets like "scum" and "pussy," please don't forget the libertarian and conservative anti-interventionists. There's more to the antiwar movement—and the world, for that matter—than left and right, black and white.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 9th, 2010 at 8:32 am
Thank you James. You'll notice that at first I didn't answer "sweet potato pie". To be honest, that reply really made my day.
And I know that it looks like an exercise in futility, but if you get 1) to expose themselves, then sometimes it's worth it because most of the time, unfortunately, people judge the book by the cover.
As for 2), I fully agree with you, but sometimes I don't think enough before getting trapped. As someone from this site told me, we all have "overly honest moments on blogs".
Chris Mallory
October 9th, 2010 at 9:30 am
So, why exactly were there "insurgents in battle stricken bloody neighborhoods"? It couldn't have been because we invaded the place in the first place? We had no business in Iraq. We should have left Afghanistan in Jan 2002.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 9th, 2010 at 11:28 am
To all "freedumbs". Nobody loves America for its "freeudumb". Nobody hates America for its "freedumb". Morons love America because of the golden veal. I despise America because of Las Vegas. Get it?
james
October 9th, 2010 at 11:38 am
I feel your pain, as Clinton put it, but it is still incumbent on us to expose them and their motives. I work tirelessly for this. But they will never trap me or drag me into futility.
MoT
October 9th, 2010 at 11:52 am
I would hasten to say that Americans get unfairly lumped together due to their idiotic "leaders" and propagandist "media". It's no more accurate than labeling all Muslims as terrorist loving jihadists.
MoT
October 9th, 2010 at 11:52 am
Stockholm Syndrome indeed! Spot on.
Septimus
October 9th, 2010 at 11:56 am
You completely distorted what I wrote, then called me a "tool" for writing it. You're either shamelessly dishonest, or a brainless "tool" yourself.
This is what I wrote:
"Some people aren't intellectually curious. Some people believe what they're told or what they want to hear. STILL OTHERS may have considered the same arguments … and drew a different conclusion than you…"
I clearly distinguished between people who "aren't intellectually curious" and people who reasoned on their own but "drew a different conclusion". It's absolutely pathetic that the only way you can counter my post is to distort the meaning of it first.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 9th, 2010 at 11:58 am
Quoting Clinton is like pinching my nose. Tell me my friend, what did I say that you think was futile? I promise you I accept every critic that helps me improve even if I have to swallow a lump when I'm treated with it.
MoT
October 9th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Excellent suggestions. You could call this a sort of counter-propaganda insurgency. You can't win with a direct assault on the themes so deeply embedded in the American psyche because they're using monies robbed from you in the first place! How sadly ironic.
Septimus
October 9th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
"What's your opinion on america's wars by the way?"
They're causing a lot of misery and tragedy, as all wars do. Their protracted nature makes them too expensive to afford. They're further polarizing a nation already bitterly divided and highly partisan. They're likely to generate violent blowback, thereby generating more misery and sharper domestic divisions.
For those who believe 9-11 was the work of Islamic terrorists (which is most people), it makes sense to deprive terrorists of a base where they can train and launch homicidal operations. It's not a misuse of the military to keep terrorists on the run.
But using the military to transform primitive societies into constitutional republics favorable to the west where no such aspiration or tradition exists, as a way of securing the safety of the west, and attempting to do so in a short span of time, is turning out to be a very costly enterprise in terms of blood and treasure. Democratizing barbaric societies seems to bring barbaric leaders to power, by vote rather than by coup d'etat.
Dormammu
October 9th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
EF the Troops and EF War
zee
October 9th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
"If the percentage is much higher among volunteers, then Raimondo has unwittingly made a convincing argument for conscription. "
I don't think so. He has unwittingly made an argument for abolishing the military.
gerryhiles
October 9th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Cannot deny that, e.g. roads, etc
But how would you have felt on the receiving end of why those roads and military bases were built?
No different from the US Empire building military bases in Iraq and elsewhere.
Not as durable as the Roman ones, but they served the same purpose.
Lowry
October 9th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
You talk all this trash about us and what we do and thats fine. You got that right. When it comes down to it tho, would you pickup a rifle and use it to back it up? No you wouldn't because you're all a bunch of scared whiney liberal pussies.
Lets put it this way, I know alll muslims aren't terrorists, however, all terrorists seem to be muslims.
How about we place a monument and statue in tribute of the atomic bombs in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, same concept as the ground zero mosque. You whiney bitches are so full of yourselves your double standards stand out like a sore thumb. Lots of smug on this website.
By the way, vote tea party.
gerryhiles
October 9th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
BTW. If you ever lived in Britain, or had been to other parts of the fomer Roman Empire – which I have – then you would know how little of value remains.
All that really remains is the late conversion to 'christianism', represented by the Vatican and Protestant off-shoots.
FYI it was the Ancient Greeks who are really important, e.g. Plato and Pythagorus.
The Romans just overwhelmed and produced nothing comparable – just like the US Empire has overwhelmed Europe and has never produced anyone like Newton and Descartes.
Lowry
October 9th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Say what you want about me and what we do. Bottom line is you only know what you see on your screen. Think about it, all these issues you base your opinions on that you SO STRONGLY believe in, have you ever once set foot in these places you think you assholes know so much about? Have you seen all of this with your own eyes? That is why I laugh at you people who think you're subject matter experts on this stuff. Really to be honest, you know nothing. Not a damn thing.
Lowry
October 9th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
Spend a week or two in these places you feel so strongly about and so opinionated on. We in the infantry laugh at assholes like you. You're pretty much jokes to us. You guys need to put your money where your mouth is and bring. Watch how fast you get curb stomped.
Violence is what makes the world goes around. It's what changes governments and people. It's what frees a nation and also inprisons a nation. You don't really value what you have to be honest. In most places on earth, the feds would come to your house and silence you. It's what your friend saddam did to the kurds, you know, gassed them and all. I know alot of kurds and theyre hard asses. When they were kids they saw their families being executed and gassed by a man whom you feel should still be in power. How does it feel to support a dictator while at the same time expressing your rights to free speech on this website? You all sound spoiled to me. Need to be taught a lesson in live and death.
Lowry
October 9th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
How does it feel to step outside your house and not worry about being sniped or blown up? You probably don't feel anything because its normal to you, like I said, SPOILED.
You need to realize, all this, what you have can be gone in an instant and who will you be running to and asking for help? Just like when you call the cops or 911. Ungrateful, liberal, whiney BITCHES.
I'm not even exagerating. LOL
Lowry
October 9th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
Regarding the comments about american soldiers being sociopaths, to me, is a compliment. I mean, are you really that stuck up in your own little safe shell to think this about anyone in uniform? I take it as a compliment because it just simply means one thing. We intimidate you. You fear us. We know many different ways to hurt you. We're also not afraid to kill or be killed for what we believe in. You don't know anyone like this personally. You're afraid, which is understandable.
Now, bow down, bitches :-)
Lowry
October 9th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
If you want to know what I look like. type in scott lowry on facebook and add me. I would love to know what you all look like……
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 9th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
Facebook yields 133 results for a "Scott Lowry" request. Mothaf*cka, I don't feel intimidated by an idiot like you. I'm on Facebook too, you can see my photo, send me yours so I can send you to hell if we ever meet. The only weapons allowed will be our bare hands, a**h*le.
Lowry
October 9th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
koponkof@yahoo.com type that one in
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 9th, 2010 at 8:57 pm
Oh, and bare feet.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 9th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Your email? I wondered if you were a troll or a true moron. Thank you for dissipating my doubts. You are actually both.
Dormammu
October 9th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
Lowry, when has a US Troop actually fought for Freedom® and Democracy®, and not for Big OIl, The Military-Industrial-Complex, or the crazed Zionists? Maybe you should read "War Is A Racket", by Smedley Butler. You believe in crazy conspiracy theories like 19 Saudi Arabians hijacked 3 or 4 planes, directed by a man in a cave from Afghanistan that changes appearance in each of his "Emmanuel Goldstein" videos, while simultaneously de-activating a trillion dollar defense system.
You're Nuts!!!!!
Dormammu
October 9th, 2010 at 9:34 pm
Lowry is a plant most likely from Israel or has too much depleted uranium on his brain.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 9th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
A plant from Israel? Nah, on another site maybe, here people are too smart. My bet is on DU.
Vojkan Milosavljevic
October 9th, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Actually, I think he was just trolling. The contradictions in his stance are a clue.
Septimus
October 10th, 2010 at 12:53 am
The behaviors a perverted sociopath adopts wouldn't be the same as someone who fights because he thinks the cause is just and because he wants to be a hero. "Obedient" and "sociopathic" aren't synonymous. The "obedient" soldier who sees himself on a righteous mission wouldn't obey orders to carve innocent people into little pieces and display their body parts as trophies. A sociopath does that. A sociopath is at the bottom of the morality ladder, not the average journeyman soldier.
James
October 10th, 2010 at 1:19 am
Sorry for not stating my point more clearly, you were never futile. What I meant was I stop arguing with them when I am convinced my point got through.
James
October 10th, 2010 at 1:28 am
I am replying to this comment t oshow Vojkan Milosavljevic an example of people not to arue with for a long time, this Lowry character fits my A type, a cool aid "they hate us for our freedumb" drinker.
Now this is directed to Lowry, you state that all terrorists are Muslims, but are you smart enough to define terrorism or a terrorist? Or you only parrot what they say on FLOX. My advice to you is to either read more and stop watching too much TV or to stop posting on forums to parade your ignorance in public.
Septimus Redux
October 13th, 2010 at 10:47 am
I checked your website. You need some writing lessons.
davidgrayling
October 13th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
And you need a brain, Septimus!
sagarian517
October 17th, 2010 at 8:37 am
Atrocities occur in all wars that's why they are called "wars." As a Vietnam, USMC & USAF, I can understand how someone who is a civilian might not "get it" that like Civil War general Sherman intoned: "War is Hell!" Because it really is if you have ever been in one. Support the troops, to me, means, letting them know that 'back here in the world' there are people who still care about them and love them no matter what their personal feelings are about the war. What's wrong with that?
josh
November 14th, 2010 at 6:30 am
It funny, cause i look 10-15 years down the road and people like Justin Raimondo and his so called followers will still be voices in the shadow. Spineless people, with no morals or values. People who have never felt pride or belonging. Social misfits!
I sympathise with all of you, its got to be hard being pissed on every day of your life!