Haters Go After the ‘Ground Zero Mosque’
Leonard Peikoff: even crazier after all these years
Nothing illustrates the utter craziness of our society in the post-9/11 era than the controversy over the "Ground Zero mosque." To begin with, the proposed Islamic center – not a mosque, but the Muslim equivalent of the YMCA – a nonprofit foundation wants to build in New York City isn’t at "ground zero," it is four blocks from the site of the World Trade Center. But that doesn’t deter demagogues like Newt Gingrich and various other unsavory opportunists from making it into a political issue.
Never mind the fact that there is already a mosque four blocks away from the site of the World Trade Center (see here), which has been there for many years. If we follow the "logic" of Newt and his fellow crusaders, then this should be torn down – along with all the other hundreds of mosques in New York City. And don’t forget Washington, D.C., the site of the attack on the Pentagon: surely symbols of the "enemy" religion must be banned there, too.
Of course, that would suit the haters, like Pamela "Shrieking Harpy" Geller, fuehrer of the "Stop the Islamization of America" movement, just fine. Geller is a self-proclaimed "Objectivist," a follower of Ayn Rand’s philosophy, whose blog – "Atlas Shrugs" – is named after Rand’s famous novel. It’s a case of intellectual expropriation both obscene and absurd, since Geller’s style of "argumentation" is as emotion-laden and out of control as Rand’s was cool, objective, and rational. Geller’s "argument" is that all Muslims are inherently and irredeemably evil, and out to destroy America: there are no "moderates," and those who pretend to be so are merely biding their time until the day they can reveal their true colors and impose Sharia law on the rest of us. Reading her tracts is kind of like perusing the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, only with Muslims taking the place of Jews as the sinister, all-powerful Forces of Darkness. Geller herself is a nobody, a publicity-seeker with no real arguments to make, so I won’t burden my readers with too much of her incoherent shrieking, but here’s a sample:
"Another stab in the eye of America……….’Muslim Family Day’ on September 12th. Vile. Six Flags hosts the annual Muslim Brotherhood front, I.C.N.A., for Muslim Family Day on September 12. ‘This event offers fun for the entire family and will also offer halal food stalls.’"
Had enough? I thought so.
Geller’s "intellectual" mentor, Leonard Peikoff, the founder of the Ayn Rand Institute, and Rand’s "intellectual heir," however, is a different story. He does make arguments, if you want to call them that.
Asked if he supported the right of the builders of the mosque to their own private property, this alleged advocate of reason and property rights answers with an emphatic no:
"Let’s start with property rights. Property rights are limited and they are contextual. You cannot do anything you want with property even though it is yours, not if its ramifications objectively entail a threat to the rights of others. You can’t build a bomb in your home. You can’t even build a big bonfire in your backyard legitimately because the principle of rights is that property rights are a derivative of life as the standard and there can be no right to threaten anyone’s life nor indeed to threaten anyone’s property."
How does a mosque, or, more accurately, a Muslim community center, "objectively entail a threat to the rights of others"? According to Peikoff, all manifestations of Islam – the very idea of Islam – is "objectively" a threat to the United States. Therefore, by his "logic," it’s okay to violate the property rights of Muslims – any and all Muslims. Indeed, killing them all would be a good thing, according to his sick perversion of Objectivism. Not that he has the intellectual honesty to follow his own murderous "logic" to its "rational" conclusion….
"Second," Peikoff continues,
"Rights are contextual. In any situation where metaphysical survival is at stake all property rights are out. You have no obligation to respect property rights. The obvious, classic example of this is, which I’ve been asked a hundred times, you swim to a desert island — you know, you had a shipwreck — and when you get to the shore, the guy comes to you and says, ‘I’ve got a fence all around this island. I found it. It’s legitimately mine. You can’t step onto the beach.’ Now, in that situation you are in a literal position of being metaphysically helpless. Since life is the standard of rights, if you no longer can survive this way, rights are out. And it becomes dog-eat-dog or force-against-force."
Peikoff’s example has nothing to do with the reality of the issue: indeed, it is so far removed from it that his answer seems completely unhinged. Unless one assumes the premise of his argument, which is that Islam – and, specifically, this Muslim community center four blocks from Ground Zero – represents such a grave threat to the US that our "metaphysical survival" is at stake. Given this demented and demonstrably untrue premise, his diatribe makes a kind of Bizarro World "sense" – but of course it isn’t true, and so what comes out of his mouth is the intellectual equivalent of vomit from a drunk.
"Rights are contextual." "You have no obligation to respect property rights." "Rights are out"! Where have we heard this before? Wesley Mouch – is that you talking?
So much for Peikoff and his misnamed "Ayn Rand Institute" as defenders of capitalism, property rights, and the sanctity of the individual.
If you thought Peikoff couldn’t get any wackier, you didn’t anticipate this:
"Now, let’s apply this to the foreign relations issue. The context today is that we are at war and not a cold one. A real one. We are facing widespread terrorism sponsored by a number of governments with tremendous popular backing in virtually every Mid-East Islamic country. Even Turkey, the one priding itself on its secularism, has now gone Islamic."
(Note how he seems to have gotten the neocon memo that Turkey – once one of Israel’s few allies in the world – is no longer kosher, and must be vilified. Okay, back to Peikoff:)
"Now, the United States’ response, the western response to this is a continuation of the appeasement that was started back in the ’50s with Eisenhower when Iran seized western oil companies. The Americans, the British, and the Israelis, as I remember, launched an attack to try to reclaim it and — or at least the British and the Israelis did and Eisenhower vetoed it."
Say what? When a senile old hater says "as I recall," the result, as in this case, can be unintentionally funny. What Peikoff is "recalling" here isn’t a joint US-British-Israeli assault, or an assault vetoed by Eisenhower, but the CIA-sponsored overthrow of the democratically elected Iranian government of Mohammad Mossadegh, who was making noises about nationalizing British and American oil interests. As anyone who knows anything about the history of the region can tell you, this led to the imposition of the Shah Reza Pahlavi, whose tyrannical regime slaughtered thousands, jailing and torturing many more.
What gets me is that this self-proclaimed "philosopher," and advocate of the "supremacy of reason," doesn’t even bother to get his facts straight: Peikoff’s ignorance of the history of the Middle East, and specifically Iran, is monumental – and he knows it. But history, knowledge, and facts are unimportant to him, as they are to all haters and the vicious demagogues who want to make use of them. If history won’t conform to Peikoff’s ideological delusions, he simply makes it up, to wit:
"Since that point there’s more and more and more craven appeasement by the west and across 50 years the audacity and scope of outrage of the Islamic world — I mean by that, the activists, the militants, the terrorists, and their countless followers — they have continually upped the deaths, the assaults, the horror, while the US has continually upped its appeasement."
Yes, the overthrow of the Iranian government, unconditional political, military, and financial support to the occupiers of the West Bank and Gaza, two invasions of Iraq, support to Arab dictatorships (as long as they’re "pro-American," i.e. Mubarak in Egypt) – this was a policy of "appeasing" the Muslim world. Those Made-in-USA bombs falling on the factories and churches of Lebanon, disgorged by Israeli planes – that was "appeasement," too.
What planet is this "philosopher" living on?
Peikoff then launches into an inchoate rant about how American soldiers are having their hands tied, because they aren’t killing enough civilians: if you think I’m exaggerating, please read this, and this. George W. Bush is denounced by Peikoff for averring that bin Laden represents only Islam’s lunatic fringe, and the result, says Peikoff, is that we have a "non-policy," and "there’s no enemy," while the authorities "excuse" and "downplay" the terrorist threat.
Now to any normal person, the idea that the government is downplaying the danger represented by jihadist terrorism is a joke: indeed, ever since 9/11, our policymakers have been obsessed with this issue, and our politics have been dominated by it. But when one believes the existence of a Muslim community center represents a "metaphysical threat" to our very existence as a nation – well, then, yes, I suppose the expenditure of multi-billions of taxpayer dollars, two major wars, and a continuing war at home on our constitutional liberties is indeed a craven "non-policy" of "appeasement."
So how will it all end? Peikoff warns:
"Now, it should be obvious that there is no end to this, no final result, and not too far from now in time before there will be Islamic devastation or even take over of a paralyzed United States."
Of course, no one is better at devastation than the United States government, but then, according to Peikoff and his tiny clique of foaming-at-the-mouth followers, the killing of innocents is the only "moral" way to fight a war. Yes, you read that right: that’s what they believe. If the US goes to war, it must never take into account the innocent lives of bystanders, since, according to them, there can be no such category of persons. Rand herselfopined, back in the cold war days, that it would be "moral" for the US to invade and conquer the Soviet Union, since the Soviets were bloody dictators and the US the fountainhead of freedom in the world: furthermore, she "reasoned," the citizens of the Soviet Union allowed their rulers to continue to rule – the gulags, the secret police, and the apparatus of repression notwithstanding – and therefore it would be okay to pulverize them too, if it came to that. A thoroughly nutty conception of a rational foreign policy, but Rand’s epigones, including Peikoff, have taken this insanity a few steps further into complete lunacy by universalizing Rand’s original formulation.
As for the alleged possibility of a Muslim takeover of a "paralyzed" United States: that’s about as likely as Peikoff becoming a rational human being.
What makes Peikoff’s views and those of his "Objectivist" comrades even creepier is their pretense at "objectivity," "reason," and "logic." They worship at the shrine of an author whose early disciples called her "Mrs. Logic" – and yet they are so far from being logical that the distance can only be measured in lightyears. Indeed, there is an emotional ferment obvious in the tone and content of Peikoff’s diatribe, which originated as a podcast: you can hear the hatred bubbling up from the very depths of his being as he chokes out his prescription for mass death and massive rights violations. By his "logic," it would be "rational" to lock up every Muslim in a concentration camp, or – to save money – simply liquidate them, as the Soviets used to say. In the Peikoffian worldview, applied to the realm of military strategy, anything less than genocide is appeasement. His is the foreign policy of the Borg.
Peikoff is honest enough to recognize where all this murderous hatred is going, and to his credit he comes right out and says it, his voice shaking with anger:
"Give notice and bomb Tehran as a beginning — but, we can’t do that. But right now the question is: What should we do in this case?
"Now, my view in this context, any objective sign — not what could be subjectively taken one way or the other, but any objective sign sign of our weakness, it is immoral and catastrophic for Americans to permit it insofar as they could stop or weaken the effort to it. And the mosque is absolutely a textbook example of this. There is only one objective message.
"Now, let me give you an analogy if it’s not self-evident. Japanese strike pearl Harbor. We declare war. Japan, the Japanese, are then given a large spread of land in Pearl Harbor to build a temple celebrating — I don’t care what. The Japanese superiority or Shinto peacefulness or — I don’t care what. Now, if you can even conceive of that as justified because of ‘property rights,’ then I say you haven’t a clue what property rights, or individualism, or Objectivism is saying. Because what permitting that amounts to is ‘Roll over. Kick me. Kill me. I have nothing to say.’"
To begin with, what does Iran have to do with it? During the Iraq war, the Bush administration assiduously cultivated the myth that Saddam Hussein organized the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, although that was a patent lie (Bush later admitted it wasn’t true, but by then the legend had taken root in the public subconscious). Is Peikoff saying Iran was behind 9/11? It’s hard to say, but, as Peikoff would put it, "I don’t care what." His fact-free form of "objectivity" surely allows him not to care.
Secondly, let’s dispense with the pretense of Peikoff’s alleged devotion to "individualism." There are lots of ideological labels one might affix to someone who advocates the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians in wartime, or at any time, but "individualist" isn’t one of them. One who treats the members of an entire religion as an undifferentiated mass, to be treated like vermin, is only an "invidualist" in Bizarro World, where it appears Dr. Peikoff has taken up full-time residence.
Thirdly, it’s interesting that Peikoff should pick up on the example of the Japanese in World War II, because the logic of his position justifies the internment camps set up by Roosevelt – that precursor of Peikoffian "individualism" – into which Japanese-Americans were forced to relocate. It’s clear from his remarks that he would fully endorse a similar fate for Muslims in the US – yes, that‘s how crazy he is.
I have to say that I am appalled – really disgusted to the point that it makes me want to throw up – that a moral monster of Peikoff’s sort is sullying the name of Ayn Rand with his certifiable craziness. I was inspired to become a writer by her example, I loved her novels when I read them as a very young teenager, and I am not one of those tired old Boomer types who "got over her" – I admire Rand, as a novelist and a person, today more than ever, in spite of her flaws. As I have written elsewhere, Atlas Shrugged is not only a work of literary genius, it is a work of almost preternatural prescience: we are living that novel today. I couldn’t have survived my adolescence without The Fountainhead, and my favorite movie of all time is the Italian film adaptation of We the Living, Rand’s first novel. (Buy it here: Alida Valli as Kira, the heroine, is fabulous!)
That said, the takeover of her legacy by her self-proclaimed "intellectual heir," the monstrous Peikoff, is an obscenity, and a truly sinsister development. If you think I’m exaggerating, read what Peikoff is exhorting his followers to do, since "we can’t bomb Iran," and are otherwise constrained by the spinelessness of the "appeasers":
"Now if you ask me, in conclusion, ‘Well, what, then should properly be done?’ Obviously war, but I mean in regard to this issue I would say: Any way possible permission should be refused and if they go ahead and build it, the government should bomb it out of existence, evacuating it first, with no compensation to any of the property owners involved in this monstrosity. You know, a nice little example would be Howard Roark is relevant here.
"I want to just conclude by saying that I’m doing these podcasts for nothing but the enjoyment of talking to young people about important issues. I am not here to have a heart attack, so please don’t send me any more questions like this. I will not answer them."
Readers of The Fountainhead will be familiar with this reference to Howard Roark, the main character, an architect who, in the course of the novel, blows up one of his own buildings because its design has been altered and perverted. In no way is his example "relevant here," except in Peikoff’s senile mind. Roark was defending his own work against the depredations of a contemptible parasite, and, needless to say (except when one is talking to "Objectivists"), The Fountainhead is a work of fiction: Roark’s act was symbolic. Rand certainly did not advocate that admirers of her work should go around blowing things up.
At the end of Peikoff’s podcast, someone other than Peikoff appends a note at the end, averring:
"Dr. Peikoff has asked me to state, in case anyone misinterpreted, that the blowing up of a building mentioned near the end is an action, which like all foreign policy issues, can properly be taken by a government. He in no way suggests or condones private action in this issue."
Peikoff is a liar: having stated that Roark’s blowing up of a building is "a nice little example" of "what, then, properly should be done," he cannot then back away from the implications of his own words. After all, wouldn’t this same principle of letting the government take care of the bombing apply to Roark? And it can hardly be said that the building of the mosque/community center is a "foreign policy issue," since we’re talking about a building in the heart of New York City. The builders aren’t applying to the UN for a building permit: it’s up to the city government. Which is why the leaders of this crazed "stop the mosque" movement are putting pressure on local officials to violate property rights and make bigotry the official policy of the Big Apple.
No, it’s clear from the context what Peikoff is advocating, or, rather, inciting: he is telling his followers – a thoroughly nutty bunch, by any measure – that it’s okay for them to blow up the "ground zero mosque." That’s where hatred of this intensity always winds up: in naked bloody violence. In this sense, Peikoff is an intellectual criminal.
Peikoff has said some pretty nutty things in his career as Rand’s "heir," but this one takes the cake. This latest hate-filled diatribe even has some of his followers shaking their heads (albeit ever so tentatively and politely), which is a sign that the Objectivist "movement" – or that part of it Peikoff hasn’t long ago purged for alleged ideological impurities – is nearing yet another in a seemingly endless series of splits.
It’s interesting that he starts out his tirade by honestly proclaiming the hate and rage roiling inside him:
"Isn’t it private property and therefore protected by individual rights and no one has a right to interfere? Now, I don’t take concrete political issues like this, but in this case it is an issue of such ramifications that I just can’t ignore it. I also am going to lie to or deceive you in this way: not in the content of what I say, but in the manner. left to my own devises, I would be enraged and spout off all the way through my answer on the wickedness of the people who believe this or the non-knowledge of the people who agree with them. But I asked for questions and therefore if I take it, well, nobody forced me, I gotta be calm, just as if it was any other question. So, do not let my manner deceive you as to my opinion, my evaluation."
Don’t let his manner deceive you. That skinny little guy with the comically high voice, and the pencil thin neck, is a potential mass murderer, whose followers are entirely capable of violence incited by his murderous "philosophy" – a philosophy that might be described as Bizarro "individualism," i.e. the complete opposite of everything that Rand – and any other individualist worthy of the name — ever stood for.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013
- Boycott Israel? – May 9th, 2013





sherban
July 23rd, 2010 at 5:12 am
Excellent article,and for the first time (at least for me) is defined a criminal who act free and even receive honors and is subject to adulation:the intellectual criminal.They are cohorts of them:Leonard Peikoff,Geller are not the more representative.Can't be Julius Streicher act of accusation a model to establish what is criminal hate propaganda?It is not clear enough that for the these people the "solution" is only physical annihilation of millions.It is not view the results of their work.Freedom of speech can't be confused with criminal speech.Raimondo called them on their name:criminal intellectuals and more realistic will be only :criminals.
mickperry
July 23rd, 2010 at 6:57 am
Sure, Peikoff is an intellectual criminal, but in my book, so is "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity" Coulter. So why the different treatment Justin?
Montaigne
July 23rd, 2010 at 7:33 am
Nice to note, that Justin Raimondo, who has written approvingly of Ayn Rand and her philosophy, nonetheless withstands the temptation to give followers – especially her intellectual heir Leonard Peikoff – automatically the benefits of doubts.
Still she was not out of the realm of self-delusion herself, as evidenced with her strange affair with Nathaniel Branden, the radicalization of her thoughts into an -ism, heartily applauded by young followers like Leonard Peikoff, which she then seemed to see as some sort of proof for the validity of her ideas. Her badly developed knowledge and taste for classical music, which she thought followed her philosophy when music was at it's best – hence the absurd judgment of Tchaikovsky's first piano concerto as a great triumph of the genre.
She also was deceived by her own conception to gravely misjudge historical developments. The Middle Ages were dark, and had to be so, dominated by christianity.
She completely missed dialectics of culture, that some development might stands as ground for another, and then her own philosophy might be superseded from someone with a greater or more nuanced perspective. So language itself do not change or developessentially? History? Culture? Also missed completely the validity of thinking outside the greek venture into philosophy of essences, culminating with Aristotle's First Philosophy. She formulated one "First Philosophy" herself, and then assumed everybody had to agree, or else were inherently evil or at best of lesser intellectual worth and honesty.
So in a way Peikoff is a nice example from a consequence of her understanding of life, and labelling him as a "bad guy", from Raimondo another example of Rands willfulness in seeking truth of life. I mention this, bcause our war-mongering adversaries precisly uses "bad guys" as their ultimate "proof".
Justin Raimondo
July 23rd, 2010 at 8:02 am
Ann wanted to kill only the leaders: Peikoff wants to kill *everyone*. That's a big difference. And while I'm sure Ann isn't too keen on the "ground zero mosque," I haven't heard her say it ought to be bombed.
egoist_djr
July 23rd, 2010 at 10:29 am
WRT your question on Iran being behind 9/11, yes, Peikoff (and me) say that Iran is the intellectual / spiritual foundation for these and countless other attacks on the West. To disregard, or otherwise ignore that is akin to only noticing satellites of WWII Germany, and not Germany as the head of the snake.
I do wonder if you've considered the enclaves in the Western world of Islam (in Paris, England, Canada, Dearborn…) and what has been happening there. These don't appear to be people integrating into a culture, but rather [expanding] tribes immune to the laws of the country – with their own "justice" system.
Solon
July 23rd, 2010 at 10:49 am
Justin, how come you make such a stark distinction between Peikoff and Ayn Rand since she, as you yourself, mention, said it would have been right to pulverize cities of the Soviet Union? An assertion like that makes her equal to Peikoff, I fail to see the difference.
geo1671
July 23rd, 2010 at 11:27 am
Garbage EGO !
Please and thankyou , look up Tribes of " Ashkenazism " and stop the hatred.
FYI: NO Muslims attacked USA on Sept 11 2001
ScottC
July 23rd, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Egoist, Islam, Sharia is a voluntary, democratic system, with a more venerable set of case law than any other in the world. Many of our Common Law mercies to widows and consumer protections issue directly from Sharia. Sharia varies just as the rule of law varies. Justice may work differently in Texas than Maine.
As to Ayn Rand, she didn't understand here economic arguments. Where did John Galt get his railroads? Well, I won't waste time with her fairy tale rendering of the story, the reality is that the railroads were a gift of Gov't. Yet another collective action that she approves of since it enriches hers. The celebration of John Galt is akin to celebrating the Oligarchs/Cleptocrats in Russia after the fall. This represents a theft of the common for the elite and connected.
There are 3 markets not "free markets" I am in the free market, the customer is always right, there is competition and alternatives. Professions, where expertise is the commodity don't allow customers to be right, or even know if they were well served. Ben Franklin wrote, "a country boy between two lawyers is like a fish between two cats." Finally, we have utility/monopoly markets. Railroads, armies, roads, electricity, water and sewage are prime examples of this. These industries get their scope and scale thanks to gov't commissions, bonding and subsidy. Celebrating these essential utilities, where the market will bear any price is a corruption of economics or business.
Fans of Ayn Rand are economic sophists. Really, think about facts versus her acccount.
"What gets me is that this self-proclaimed "philosopher," and advocate of the "supremacy of reason," doesn’t even bother to get his HER facts straight: Peikoff’s RAND'S ignorance of the history of the THE RAILROAD Middle East, and specifically Iran, is monumental – and he SHE knows it. But history, knowledge, and facts are unimportant to HER him, as they are to all haters and the vicious demagogues who want to make use of them. If history won’t conform to RAND'S Peikoff’s ideological delusions, he simply makes it up,"
I love your work Justin, but Ayn's appeal is adolescent at best. There are 3 markets not simply free markets, conflating rail, electricity or war contracting with a restaurateur is folly and sophistry.
Gov't should stay out of the Free market–remember competition and alternatives give the power to the consumer. Professional markets are subsidized where these services are essential–legal help for indigents, medical, etc. These are self regulating and problematic markets. Where these professions serve gov't we have greater problems–cops are an easy example, their self regulation when they serve gov't and not the people offers little light. In professional markets, the client or principle must be protected and served. When the principal and the agent's roles get confused these markets break down.
In the monopoly utility market the customer is powerless. No price control, no ability to boycott, no competition, no (few) alternatives. Electricity, sewage, roads, police, it doesn't make sense to provide the infrastructure to offer competition, hence these are special markets and should never be used as an example of free markets. Capitalism perhaps, actually an inverted socialism where the elites are given the wealth of the common people to profiteer. Since gov't commissions, orders, bonds and funds these projects, their profits should be limited to 3X the bonds. That has been 10% for some time and for this very reason.
I find it funny that weak professionals are the only ones to argue for this radical libertarianism. Weak in that Journalists and professors' professional duties are weak relative to protecting their clients–students or readers. Rarely do they understand they are in a special (not very in their particular advocation) market.
Here's another twist on this formulation. Our Ag dept has CREATED monopolies where none should exist. After all, alternatives and competition are inherent in a healthy food market. But, our gov't policies foster ADM, ConAgra, Monsanto which have lead to vast monocultures. Food stamps are good policy since the supply and demand is atomized with small end user/consumers. WIC and other large programs destroy market diversity and small players.
FBastiat
July 23rd, 2010 at 1:35 pm
"Leonard Peikoff vs. Philosophy":
Http://ABCDunlimited.com/ideas/philosophy.html
Whitelion
July 23rd, 2010 at 1:54 pm
I think Peikoff was confusing the 1956 English-French-Israeli attack on Egypt in response to nationalizing the Suez Canal with the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran. Just goes to show these so called experts are no such thing but regular ideologues. So much for objectivity when facts and history are there to be shaped and reshaped to advance their twisted notions.
bret
July 23rd, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Lot of words, little sense. I like the bald assertion that some markets are just magical and special, and require monopoly. At least, I think that's your assertion. Hard to tell.
Cold Wind
July 23rd, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Peikoff is described everywhere as an 'American Objectivist', what a laugh! But he is the perfect example why nobody outside the neocon network reads philosophy anymore. Doubtless, Peikoff is a great admirer of Jonathan Pollard, the Israeli spy of well deserved notoriety.
generalissimo x
July 23rd, 2010 at 3:32 pm
all one needs to do is look at the names: geller and peikoff. wow, a bunch of freak zionists advocate destruction of islam. there's a whole nation state of them that's bought and paid for our country in case anyone hasn't noticed. i guess the bill of rights and freedom of religion is just too obvious to mention…seriously, why is this even debatable?
and seriously ayn rand? fountain head is great if you're 19 and intellectually juvenile but it's a mediocre novel which has received far too much attention over the years. anyone who'd proclaim themselves her "heir" isn't worth the words written about them.
where is the heir to huxley or orwell???
generalissimo x
July 23rd, 2010 at 3:35 pm
and as an aside, isn't geller and peikoff's arguments based on the assumption that arabs perpetrated the 9-11 attacks? seems the very source of their argument has never even been properly addressed with any realy truth. how long do the facists and liars get to set the terms and framework of the debate?
MichaelM
July 23rd, 2010 at 3:44 pm
"Peikoff’s example has nothing to do with the reality of the issue: indeed, it is so far removed from it that his answer seems completely unhinged. Unless one assumes the premise of his argument, which is that Islam – and, specifically, this Muslim community center four blocks from Ground Zero – represents such a grave threat to the US that our "metaphysical survival" is at stake. "
And this is the only question to debate—whether any groups in this community can be shown to be connected to those who openly advocate the overthrow of this or any other nation by force. Then the permit to build would have to be contingent on them severing all ties to the project and remaining unassociated with it in the future.
Peikoff has shown more than once his ineptness at the concrete application of Objectivism to political issues (it is reported that he voted for Obama). But his philosophical positions are impregnable here, and this entry can be rightfully condemned a) for failing to make the distinction, and b) for populating almost every paragraph with equally over-the-top ad hominems and arguments from intimidation to sub for the explanation of why Peikoff's principles are supposed to be invalid that are conspicuously absent.
Principle #1: Individual political rights are contextual. They are not an inborn human appendage. They are principles that come into meaningful existence solely in a societal context to serve as standards of civilized behavior. They objectify and impose negative obligations on the populace not to violate them and positive obligations on government to guarantee them. Outside a society (that desert island) there are no political rights, there are only the moral rights on which political rights are later based. They are necessary for men to be free to pursue their own life unimpeded by physical force.
That said, situations remain possible in which they are inapplicable. Peikoff named one of those wherein one of a shipwrecked pair says its mine, you go back in the water and die. Another is the starving man lost in a blizzard who breaks into a locked cabin to take enough food to survive. The principle for these and other "emergency" scenarios is that the function of a right is to protect your life, and it would be self-contradictory to define a right in such a way that the act of sustaining that right for someone else would result in your own death.
The operative word here should be "emergency", and the discussion should focus on how impending the danger to America would be from treating groups openly hostile to us as if they were reciprocally intent on preserving the rights of all other men. As long as there is any other way to deal with the danger, the suspension of rights would be premature. Thus Peikoff could be ahead of himself in his application, but his grounds in regard to rights is secure.
Principle #2: Carpet-bombing is not necessarily immoral. Peikoff advocated nuking Tehran the day after 9/11. He spotted the real long-term enemy before a lot of us did. Once again, as even he later realized, that was tactical hyperbole, but not because it would result in the deaths of innocents (children and adults who are opposed to the regime in power are the only innocents), because it is not the one dropping the bombs who is responsible for those deaths. It is those who are and support the regime in power who are the violators of the innocent's right to life. It is their actions that created the necessity for such a bombing as a last resort of defensive action, just as the men on the Enola Gay and the pilots over Dresden did not violate the rights of the innocents below.
This country has a record of doing everything it can to avoid such deaths, from dropping leaflets announcing the bombings ahead of time to spending billions on developing smart bombs. Iran and the overwhelming majority of its citizens have an even longer record of violating individual rights. Those individuals have forfeited any claim to rights.
—————-
From the first time I heard Peikoff speak in Detroit over 40 years ago, through his history of philosophy tape lectures via the Nathaniel Branden Institute and his comprehensive summary of Rand's philosophy in "Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand", he has been the single person most able to accurately and clearly explain the complexities and nuances of Objectivism.
Even as I too see him appear to be going over the top in his applications to politics, I must advise myself and others to err on the side of caution. I already read the accusations you make here back in the 1960's. Only then it was Ayn Rand who was the wacko, unhinged, insane, lunatic self-proclaimed philosopher. I have now lived long enough to have witnessed the metamorphosis of "unhinged" into "prescient".
musings
July 23rd, 2010 at 8:51 am
Just heard an interview on NPR of a Cambodian who spent years interviewing one of the Pol Pot ideologues responsible for murdering his family – who eventually came out of the closet on that fact to his subject. The subdued response of both parties to the issue (and others) shows how different cultures are, and how mysterious the far eastern ones can be to people like me from Abrahamic cultures where revenge, deterrence, victory, appeasement, and concepts like that are our heritage.
Miss Rand became an American while working in Hollywood. She worked to create a philosophical matrix for her creative ideas, but she was primarily a person who designed dramas (professionally and personally). I have no doubt that her fantasies about attacking the Soviet Union derived from her personal experience in youth with the rise of communism. Had the country remained in the hands of the Romanov dynasty and had it continued with many of its repressive and antisemitic features, she probably would have emigrated to Chicago anyway, where there were American cousins, as a young person in search of opportunity. Looking back, in this alternative history, she'd feel she'd escaped something which would have been fatal in other ways to her ambitions. In the end, she was going TO America, from whatever circumstances, because America was THE place to be.
Peikoff clearly has a different agenda than Rand's was. He isn't a creative artist. He is a bit of a megalomaniac, imagining America has the power to destroy backward ideas with the push of a button, by killing Moslems in Iran and (why not?) Turkey. His friends undoubtedly believe as he does and might even be cooking up something which would force the rest of us to follow their lead. That is the thing I fear – not toleration of other cultures, but being forced into war with them by the same "logic" which forced us into war with Iraq.
I understand the the design of the Washington DC Holocaust Museum puts guests in the situation of an ever-narrowing range of possibilities, showing that escape became impossible for those who perished. I worry that the neo-con designers of WWWIV (their phrase) are setting up this kind of logical cattle chute, and I would like their sick plans to be exposed before we find ourselves on the way to slaughter. The truth is that Muslims are being portrayed as just as evil as were the Jews portrayed in the Tsarist Protocols. I personally do not believe Islam is a religion of peace – but neither is Christianity or Judaism.
Our open society without establishment or prohibition of free exercise of religion has worked for centuries, and should not be compromised to deal with the paranoia of those with an ax to grind against one group that they feel is an existential threat, while the rest of us generally feel it can be dealt with on a case by case basis.
bogi666
July 23rd, 2010 at 3:54 pm
The only good book Ayn Rand ever wrote is "We the Living".
Rachel_Corrie
July 23rd, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Have Peikoff and his Zionist Cohorts learned anything from their own history?
It isn’t obvious that they have. The seed of the monstrous Islamophobia they are sowing is not unlike what the Nazis directed at their ancestors, not that long ago.
Is Peikoff’s pretentious defense of America from the “Evil” Muslims really emanating from his super patriotism, or is it his dual loyalty and passionate desire to serve the Israeli agenda? Well, the answer is so obvious, elaboration is not required here.
If you really want to put Peikoff’s love for America to the test, then let’s make the following proposition: Cancel one synagogue building permit for every indicted Israeli spy that passes American national security secrets to Israel. I could hear Peikoff’s deafening squeals of Anti-Semitism, and justifiably, chocking the airwaves. Put the same proposal to our super “patriotic” and Zionist’s Ass-Kisser politicians, the like of Newt Gingrich, and watch how their love for America begins to sap quickly.
Peikoff’s bigotry and his devotion to the Zionist’s cause are not hard to decipher, except by the majority of deceived Americans.
Monart
July 23rd, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Peikoff, Binswanger, Brook, and their blinded (or intimidated) followers don't need to examine the facts about the 9/11 attacks and recognize the lies and contradictions of the official government-media conspiracy theory. They know, a priori, without looking, that the attacks couldn't have been an inside job. See http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/war-peace/sept-…
generalissimo x
July 23rd, 2010 at 5:17 pm
so much for rigourus intellectual and scientific debate. and really, someone tell me how a bunch of fanatics in a cave with box cutters overwhelmed norad, faa, tsa, nsa,cia, and the pentagon among others? you want a conspiracy theory, there you have it. how many times do the sheeple swallow outlandish lies and "magic bullet" explanations?
i challenge anyone to watch the architects for 911 truth video and still buy into the absurd fictional story presented by the gov't/media.
E. A. Costa
July 23rd, 2010 at 6:56 pm
Hadn't realized she was literate.
"From P.T. Barnum to Ayn Rand"–great title for the final essay in "Anti-Intellect And The American Techno-Wasteland" series.
Got to give Rand credit though, for finding the right mark in the US.
In Europe she would have been laughed off the stage, left, right, or center.
E. A. Costa
July 23rd, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Ayn Rand–kind of "Gracie Allen does philosophy."
andy
July 23rd, 2010 at 7:04 pm
I still think that muslim immigration to the west is a bad thing. I believe Europe is making the greatest mistake in its history by permitting it. I also think America should end immigration and begin the long overdue process of digesting the many millions of post-1965 arrivals.
E. A. Costa
July 23rd, 2010 at 7:04 pm
" And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride. This god, this one word: I."
Ayn Rand
Hilarious. Obviously where Marvel Comics got their company writing style.
E. A. Costa
July 23rd, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Judy Tenuta does it better, and plays her own accompaniment on the accordion too.
Ekbal Uddin
July 23rd, 2010 at 7:21 pm
In his usually persuasive, logical and compelling manner Justin Raimondo exposes and demolishes the logic-, reason- and morality-defying rant of the Zionist Peikoff and his many cohorts who have established themselves in the media, and the various 'think tanks' (an oxymoron if ever there was one) they established, finance, and/or populate to broadcast their relentless propaganda in the service of Zionism and Israel.
Justin is an unabashed admirer of Ayn Rand with a caveat, so to speak. He is cognizant of Rand's flaws.
Ayn Rand has also made statements which in their breathtaking ignorance, wickedness, blind prejudice, naked hatred, racism, let alone its total illogic and unreasonableness and propaganda-orientation are every bit as vicious, racist and dangerous as those of Peikoff and his cohorts in the media and ‘think tanks’ that Justin rightly and forcefully condemns. An example of that would be the roughly 2½ minute video clip on YouTube of Rand’s 1979 appearance on the Phil Donahue Show, “Ayn Rand on Israel and the Middle East”.
Ekbal Uddin
July 23rd, 2010 at 7:25 pm
Here is an Ayn Rand clip from a 1979 Phil Donahue show (the roughly 2½ minute video could be found on YouTube):
Questioner: I would like to know your opinion on United States’ foreign Policy and what is happening in the Middle East right now?
Ayn Rand: Right now, I am not sure we know what is happening. I think the united states’ foreign policy has been disgraceful for years, for decades, I would say ever since the New Deal and in part even before that but if you mean whose side should one be on, Israel or the Arabs, I would certainly say Israel because…thanks… because it is the advanced, technological civilized advanced country amidst a group of almost totally primitive savages who have not changed for years and who are racists and who resent Israel because it is bringing industry and intelligence, modern technology…..
Ekbal Uddin
July 23rd, 2010 at 12:43 pm
In her irrational and illogical rant during a 1979 appearance on The Phil Donahue Show (the clip could be found on YouTube) Rand claimed that we should side with Israel because it was "civilized and technologically advanced" than "the totally primitive savages", the Arabs:
With this logic we should admire Germany which was, by all accounts, was more technologically advanced than any other country in almost any field yet the Nazis who were in power proved to be monsters and savages. Should we admire the Nazis and dismiss those the Nazis exterminated systematically in the millions because they considered those people 'inferior' like Jews (Rand's and Peikoff's ethnic group), Catholics, Gypsies, etc. (It is said that after a day’s work on mass extermination, members of the Nazi high command would relax listening to classical music – Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc.) So much for the civilizing effect of music….
Aaron
July 23rd, 2010 at 8:03 pm
It's about time Justin started standing up for Muslims.
muggles
July 23rd, 2010 at 8:22 pm
This latest Peikoffian lunacy doesn't surprise me. Though it is straining at gnats to vent and rant over building a religiously based rec center.
About three years ago I heard some nut described as the "director" of the Ayn Rand Institute (which I think is the Peikoffian outfit) interviewed on a local radio talk show. It was based on some essay this bozo had written. The upshot of this Randian's analysis was that we would be morally right (and therefore "should") launch premptive attacks on all Muslim nations in order to "avenge" various Iraqi atrocities (then happening) and various other Islamic terror attacks.
Killing millions of innocents unrelated to the tiny handful of perpertrators was just fine. Genocide based on religion and ethnicity was his "rational" prescription for the issue.
Of course it was impossible to call in. What was even worse than this harebrained nut's ideas was the idiotic concurance with this right wing talk show host. A sad and scary commentary on Life in the Empire.
E. A. Costa
July 23rd, 2010 at 10:04 pm
"I do not recognize anyone's right to one minute of my life. Nor to any part of my energy. Nor to any achievement of mine…. I recognize no obligations toward men except one: to respect their freedom and take no part in a slave society."
Howard Roark
Like Roark, Ran apparently gave birth to herself and created her own private language as well.
E. A. Costa
July 23rd, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Parthenogenetic, self-inseminated–Ayn Rand giving birth to herself:
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-post…
Justin Raimondo
July 23rd, 2010 at 10:26 pm
There is so muchi in your missive that is plain wrong, but I'll confine myself to the last paragraph:
In the 1960s, I was a teenager who had not yet published anything, so your assertion that I was calling Ayn a "wack" is erroneous. I would not have done so then, and I would not do so today, as the above article makes clear.
egoist_djr
July 23rd, 2010 at 10:30 pm
"Egoist, Islam, Sharia is a voluntary, democratic system" Post a picture of Mohamed with your full name & address – let us know how whether you volunteered to have your head removed with a sword or your throat slit with a dagger.
DavidSpero
July 23rd, 2010 at 10:36 pm
Michael M, you are one sick MF. If it would have been right to carpet-bomb Tehran in response to 9/11, as you say, it would be reasonable and righteous to nuke the entire USA now. The USG has demonstrably killed hundreds of times more people in the middle east and central Asia than died on 9/11, an act Iran had nothing to do with anyway. People like you should join this guy Peikoff in prison (or let's say a meditation cell in some monastery) for life, unless you'd rather just die.
Rich
July 23rd, 2010 at 11:34 pm
Religious freedom is a cornerstone of our country{unlike any Muslim country in the world}, so it is difficult to oppose the building of an Islamic center near the scene of a cowardly attack on civilians, but to refer to those opposed to this building as "haters" seems a little over the top. Those killed on 9/11 were killed by Islamists, all the twisted niceties aside and I don't think it's unreasonable for people to oppose a crescent star across from this horrible gravesite. Perhaps it would be reasonable for the muslim builders of this site to recognize the feelings of those whose freinds and relatives were brutally murdered on this site by their co-religionists and build their center somewhere else. Of course, we do have religious freedom here in the USA and I guess they do have their rights, but a show of empathy could only help the muslim standing in this country.
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 12:01 am
One is surprised Bloomberg has been so derelict on this issue–it is also absolutely imperative immediately to ban any establishment selling croissants within sight of ground zero.
The First Amendment and religious freedom aside Islamist street vendors openly selling crescent rolls a stone's throw from the site of this religious shrine where so many Americans suffered martyrdom is unconscionable!
The US Constitution is NOT a suicide pact!
David G
July 24th, 2010 at 12:07 am
Any country that has religion as its cornerstone is a dire threat to world peace. People who believe in fantasies like 'God' and life after death don't think straight. They live in a fantasy world and see other 'believers' as the enemy. This creates division.
In 2010, religion should not exist. It is for primitives and adults who couldn't get over finding out that Santa doesn't exist!
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 12:11 am
Demand also the immediate formation of a Congressional Committee to rename the Crescent Wrench.
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 12:20 am
Turkish Coffee, Turkish Bath, Turkish Delight, Persian carpet, Persian cat, muslin, croissant, lateral arabesque, sultana rolls and crescent wrenches–the upright Calvinist Capitalist vigor and rectitude of God's New Jerusalem is being subverted in a thousand cunning ways every day.
And what discerning American has not long ago seen the hidden crescent of the Marxist-Leninist Islamo-Fascist Narco-Terrorists in the hammer and sickle?
Per Dio! Avanti! For the children!
Hrebeljanovic
July 24th, 2010 at 2:10 am
"Peikoff wants to kill *everyone*." It reminded me of a prominent Croatian journalist, Tanya Torbarina, who, on the onset of the civil war in ex Yugoslavia, publicly declared that she would drop a nuclear bomb on Belgrade.
Sorry for this little digression.
solon
July 24th, 2010 at 7:49 am
It seems you live in some fantasy world of your own.
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 10:29 am
You shouldn't give away the precious items in your private language free. Bad form.
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 10:34 am
Some of your potential anti-war allies, no?
It is a Kulturkampf all right, and a fight to the death.
Ike Hall
July 24th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
I'm as much an individualist as the next guy (and on this board, that's probably saying something), but I have to agree with your comments about Rand's literary style. I put down Atlas Shrugged about halfway through because I just couldn't take it anymore. Rand was a brilliant polemicist; it's a different skillset entirely from a novelist.
bogi666
July 24th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Attila, thank you for your inspirational self congradulatory bio, as well as your tax monies. My bio is somewhat shorter, Genius at Birth, Slacker by Design, for which I thank you and hope that your inspiration will encourage others to follow in you footstep, because the entitlements for the CORPORATE WELFARE KINGS like the money. Keep writing.
Ike Hall
July 24th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
I respectfully disagree, and I'm an atheist. The human condition is that we have to have stories to help make sense of this world. The stories can be as simple as fables or as complex as religions, but they are essential for human understanding. The real question is whether a given religion (or at least a sect within that religion, or even a given church) promotes peace and empathy, or war and hatred. The problem is, most if not all religions combine all of these elements in varying degrees.
victor
July 24th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Underneath it all it's about Zionism and Israel and THEIR dominance of the world. A "Fourth Reich."
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
OMMMMMMMMMMMMM…..
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
"It is to you, the bad workers, that I send this pamphlet, which if it does not fulfill the obligations I have towards you, is, however, the greatest gift I can send you at the present time: for I have sought here to express in words the same total, resounding and beneficient insubordination that you express in your actions and struggles against work, only better and always with more radicality than me. And since neither you nor others are able at this hour to expect more from me, yet still not satisfied with less, you should not complain that I did not give you more. You should perhaps criticize me for not knowing how to describe here the entire misery against which you revolt today, a misery which is indeed great, or for not knowing how to speak of the richness of your revolt, which is not slight. But in this case, I do not know which of us should be more obliged to the other: I towards you, because you have encouraged me to write what I would never have written on my own, or you towards me, because I would not have satisfied you by merely writing it…."
Gianfranco Sanguinetti
ericsiverson
July 24th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
And I can say the same thing , any country or people that believes their is no God , is a bigger threat to world peace . becuase those people still have beliefs like global warming or climate change . the only difference is they think they are God .
Seeker
July 24th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
I would call the demonization over putting an Islamic center four blocks from where the WTC stood further evidence of the Israelization of America.
Seeker
July 24th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
So, in other words, Ayn Rand practiced intellectual onanism habitually? Why does this not surprise me?
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
Ah, as when the Fascist Giuliani very publicly, very indignantly refused the generous and immediate millions in relief the Saudis offered?
A very impolite and crude New Yorker there, along with the rest of the Right Wing jingos, lunatics, and barbarians, Republican or Democrat.
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
One is still working on how quickly all the rubble was sent off to mainland China.
ericsiverson
July 24th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
Justin I like writers like you that force me to question what I think I already know . You seem to think that we should not be afraid of muslims or shariah law . You say Shariah law is voluntary and in fact good law . I agree some of it maybe ok , but I dont think it is voluntary in all muslim countries . I wonder how many Baptist churches or any other religion facilities are in Suadi Arabia . Justin are you a muslim
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
"God" and/or "not-God"–whatever are you folks talking about? Is this some sort of Anglo-Saxon Masonic initiation routine or just overweening arrogance?
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
So them Baptists still slurping it up in their private drinking clubs?
Baptists–meet the Lutheran Brotherhood.
Lutheran Brotherhood–meet the Baptists.
May the best earthworm win.
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
Has anyone noticed how Neo-Con the Christian Science Monitor has become?
And where IS Mary Baker Eddy buried–anyone know?
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
Ever run into Amish in a train station?
Boy, some of them wimmens is sexy.
You Baptists and Lutherans and the rest should really read up on the cruel martyrdoms you inflicted on genuine Christian pacifists during World War II.
A real eye opener for hypocrites.
Geller Fan
July 24th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Raimondo, you sneering prick, you're as malicious and mean-spirited as they come. Do you dismiss Geller as a "nobody" to make your petty, spiteful little self feel like a "somebody"? Far more people are familiar with Geller than with you. She has more influence and recognition than you'll ever have. You're a largely ignored, drooling fringe character, while Geller receives more and more media attention. You envy her! How you must resent it when the folks you disdain as untermenschen garner more support and acclaim than you do. Stop pretending you matter, you condescending, self-righteous little snot. Between the two of you, it's clear who the nobody is.
E. A. Costa
July 24th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Geller–is she the one bends spoons?
eve
July 24th, 2010 at 11:51 pm
how many times do the sheeple swallow outlandish lies and "magic bullet" explanations
How many times can you say Arlen Specter?
E. A. Costa
July 25th, 2010 at 2:10 am
"the magic of science", jeje.
THOMAS W ADAMS
July 25th, 2010 at 5:27 am
Yes, some well written prose. However, it is not born out of real World "experience and understanding" of Islam. The writings of others in the spotlight above, do have legitimate fears and concerns regarding Islam, all of which are daily realised around the world. Show me a Nation possessed of a significant Muslim community and I will show you a Nation in conflict. The beliefs and cultures of Islam and "The West" are like oil and water. There is only one God, the God of Islam. "Islam" means total submission to Gods Word; Gods word is and will always be what the Imams and other "clerics" say it is.One cannot write or speak about Islam, except in the most praiseworthy of sentiment, without being under immediate sentence of death;One cannot give up the practice of Islam without being under immediate sentence of death. In both these illustrations it becomes the duty of all Muslims to carry out the sentence; under Islamic law, the murderers are immediately forgiven and exonerated from all blame. There are many other instances that illustrate the incompatibility of Islam to the Western notion of justice and democracy; Islam does not allow Democracy.I am not a Muslim, but I have "friends" who are, these are people I turn to for knowledge and explanation of Islam. Over recent years in Nigeria, it has been reported in the "News", the circumstances of minority groups of Christians being persecuted by the dominant Muslim group. The Christians were not allowed to repair or build new huts for accommodation; they were not allowed to plant crops or send their children to school;But they were encouraged to convert to Islam. In the UK many Muslim websites shout the message "British must convert to Islam in the very near future or suffer the consequences". These are all illustrations that "inform" the opinions of those who write the prose being criticised above, the list of illustrations is endless. My own view is that Muslims should not export themselves to other Countries and then coerce/persuade the Host Nation to change; they should either accept the Host culture ( impossible under Islam) or go to/stay in a Nation ruled by Islam. Many people are opposed to Islam precisely because it is so singularly narrow in it's demands of individual character and personality. Muslims are not permitted the luxury of independent thought or action, and must always do the bidding of their Imam, no if's no but's. Nothing exemplifies this statement more than seeing women dressed head to foot in a black tent with only eyes showing; it offends all community and cultural expectations creates fear and suspicion in hearts and minds of some observers.Total Submission. Muslims are entitled to their beliefs, they are not entitled to create community unrest or disturbance against the Public will and General Welfare. They should "practice" where most welcome. Regards and Blessings to all, THOMAS.
THOMAS W ADAMS
July 25th, 2010 at 5:38 am
Yes, some well written prose. However, it is not born out of real world"experience and understanding" of Islam. The writings of others in the spotlight above, do have legitimate fears and concerns regarding Islam, all of which are daily realised around the world. Show me a Nation possessed of a significant Muslim community and I will show you a Nation in conflict. The beliefs and cultures of Islam and "The West" are like oil and water. There is only one God, the God of Islam. "Islam" means total submission to Gods Word; Gods word is and will always be what the Imams and other "clerics" say it is.One cannot write or speak about Islam, except in the most praiseworthy of sentiment, without being under immediate sentence of death;One cannot give up the practice of Islam without being under immediate sentence of death. In both these illustrations it becomes the duty of all Muslims to carry out the sentence; under Islamic law, the murderers are immediately forgiven and exonerated from all blame. There are many other instances that illustrate the incompatibility of Islam to the Western notion of justice and democracy; Islam does not allow Democracy.I am not a Muslim, but I have "friends who are, these are people I turn to for knowledge and explanation of Islam. Over recent years in Nigeria, it has been reported in the "News", the circumstances of minority groups of Christians being persecuted by the dominant Muslim group. The Christians were not allowed to repair or build new huts for accommodation; they were not allowed to plant crops or send their children to school;But they were encouraged to convert to Islam. In the UK many Muslim websites shout the message "British must convert to Islam in the very near future or suffer the consequences". These are all illustrations that "inform" the opinions of those who write the prose being criticised above, the list of illustrations is endless. My own view is that Muslims should not export themselves to other Countries and then coerce/persuade the Host Nation to change; they should either accept the Host culture ( impossible under Islam) or go to/stay in a Nation ruled by Islam. Many people are opposed to Islam precisely because it is so singularly narrow in it's demands of individual character and personality. Muslims are not permitted the luxury of independent thought or action, and must always do the bidding of their Imam, no if's no but's. Nothing exemplifies this statement more than seeing women dressed head to foot in a black tent with only eyes showing; it offends all community and cultural expectations creates fear and suspicion in hearts and minds of some observers.Total Submission. Muslims are entitled to their beliefs, they are not entitled to create community unrest or disturbance against the Public will and General Welfare. They should "practice" where most welcome. Regards and Blessings to all, THOMAS.
yah
July 25th, 2010 at 5:54 am
well, in my opinion, justin's been pretty fair to all religions, and opposed the anti muslim bigots since the beginning. this isn't a blog about religion, after all.
camus10
July 25th, 2010 at 9:34 am
Justins exposea a coupla strange characters makes for good journalism
But there is a larger issue. The haters you expose are now the mainstream press (NYTimes, Washington Times, Fox, the leadership of our mil-industrial-congress-complex -think one far out fake-nut McCain and Lieberman may have taken the last election). We have major university think tanks populated with Peikoff Geller MidgeDekter Daniel Pipes type hacks; these mainstream folks are hitting campuses and crushing youthful dissent everyday.
Where is the outrage the FBI does NOTHING when these elements persist with their public hate speech everyday. Why isnt there a single AM-radio station committed to unhindered exposure of these UN-american wackos.
E. A. Costa
July 26th, 2010 at 1:30 am
Felix Guattari pioneered "free radio" in Italy as one recalls.
Ron
July 26th, 2010 at 2:11 am
I agree. If we are to have any immigration at all we should first establish the need for more people. Population pressures are being felt around the world, and I can think of no good reason for mass immigration.
If we are to do it anyway—and we will—then we should choose those peoples who have the most to offer and who share the most commonality with us. I am an unabashed white European who prefers the company of people most like myself, and I make no apologies for that. Diversity for the sake of difference is mindless piffle and contains within it the seeds for internal division if not absolute anarchy as we see throughout the MIddle East today.
Admitting a practicing Muslim is insanity. Islam has no respect for democracy and wants a theocratic state. There is no bill of rights in Islam such as freedom of speech, freedom of religion. Try them and see how long it takes for some violent adherent of this savage religion to plant a knife in your back or burn down your church.
Wake up, America. Islam is not a beneficient force in the world. It is evil.
E. A. Costa
July 26th, 2010 at 3:51 am
"Radio Alice was an Italian free radio broadcasting from Bologna at the end of the 1970s. It started transmitting on February 9, 1976 using an ex-military transmitter on a frequency of 100.6 MHz. The station was closed by the carabinieri on March 12, 1977. Radio Alice then re-opened again for two years and became politically aligned with the autonomism movement. After closure, the frequency was then given by the state to Radio Radicale. Radio Alice's output covered a myriad of subjects: labor protests, poetry, yoga lessons, political analysis, love declarations, cooking recipes, Jefferson Airplane, Area or Beethoven music. Participants in the station included Franco "Bifo" Berardi, Maurizio Torrealta, Filippo Scozzari and Paolo Ricci. In 2002 some former staff members participated in the founding of Orfeo TV, the first Telestreet pirate TV."
Wiki
Ready to get off that schoolbus?
camus10
July 26th, 2010 at 4:16 am
Tx for the precise media details, Costa. Then why does berlosconis media empire keep getting away with the mindless NATO french kissing. Did anyone ridicule Berlo balling tears at the Kennest
I havent forgotten the rogue brutality of the state against dissent at the G8 and NATO meetings
camus10
July 26th, 2010 at 10:09 am
Adams, dont you think you may be painting some really broad strokes here. Intolerance is not just limited to moslems. Unassimilated theocrats remain cloistered in their secluded ghettos in all faiths. I know several other traditional faiths who prefer to remain among their own.
The logic youre missing is the moslem cultural misfits in the west account for a tiny fraction (5% at best). The rest are just as well assimilated as any other group. Further building useful links with these cloistered groups is absolutely necessary to maintain biz links for the global economy to advance
NewandExciting
July 26th, 2010 at 11:52 am
"Principle #2: Carpet-bombing is not necessarily immoral."
Curtis Lemay, is that you???
NewandExciting
July 26th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Guess you missed the part where it was mentioned the mosque/cultural centre is 4 blocks away and not actually at ground zero.
And to use your logic Hiroshima or Nagasaki should be devoid of Christian churches because their people were brutally murdered by Christians wielding atomic bombs, right?
NewandExciting
July 26th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
I vote 'overweening arrogance.'
"My God can beat up your God! Nyanyanyanya!"
That pretty much summarizes the argument, yes?
NewandExciting
July 26th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
No, he's obviously referring to the actress. Didn't you ever watch "Buffy the Vampire Slayer?"
What cave have you been living in?
Wait. Don't answer that. :P
NewandExciting
July 26th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Who cares whether or not Saudi Arabia has religious freedom? We're talking about the USA. You know, the Bill of Rights and all that jazz? Maybe the more pertinent question is why people think that becoming more authoritarian and restrictive is an appropriate response?
"They hate us for our freedoms!" So we jettison those freedoms and 'voila' no more hate? Genius! lol
NewandExciting
July 26th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
I suspect it has something to do with the "Golden Rule."
He who has the gold makes the rules.
eve
July 26th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
The haters you expose are now the mainstream press (NYTimes, Washington Times, Fox, the leadership of our mil-industrial-congress-complex -think one far out fake-nut McCain and Lieberman may have taken the last election). We have major university think tanks populated with Peikoff Geller MidgeDekter Daniel Pipes type hacks; these mainstream folks are hitting campuses and crushing youthful dissent everyday.
Why isnt there a single AM-radio station committed to unhindered exposure of these UN-American wackos?
>>
"They" own the radio stations, movie companies, publishing houses (books, magazines) news stations AND report the so-called news. Can you say Wolf Blitzer?
Do you believe HE is an American? A "real" American?
Can you say Israeli-shill?
Most every opinion Americans get via TV or radio (Micheal Savage aka Michael Weiner =)ewish)
is formed by the same "tribe" of people. Pointing this out (and it consequently being absolutely true and easily proven) does not make one hateful any more than looking at a red car and saying it is red. It's merely a truthful observation of what exists.
The religious argument/angle has to go. It is a distraction.
That being said, those inciting Muslim hatred happen to be of the same "tribe" and "they" have a dog in the fight. Their bias is evident to anyone who pays attention.
As it stands today the people you have described (the ones dragging the US into war after war), fomenting hatred for other races/religions on television/radio and drumming up US populace approval of war in the Middle East happen to be members of a particular "tribe."
It's time to "name names" and point fingers at those who are instigating this mentality.
Their last names aren't Smith, Jones or even O'Malley and they happen to hold "dual-citizenship" to a foreign country who has been spying on the US for quite some time.
The enemy is within, right here, right now.
Hugh
July 26th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
Magnificent article, though I don't share JR's enthusiasm for Rand.
It would also be good if it were understood that, until the US overthrew Mossadegh, he and Iranians were friends of the US. This overthrow was one of those giving birth to the expression " the only thing worse than being an enemy of the US is being a friend" ( ask the survivors and friemds of the DIem family. )
As to Mossy's desire to nationalize the oil companies in Iran, this hope was universally held there. INCLUDING by His Imperial Majesty Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, Shanhanshah of Iran, who, when it was clear Mossadegh would be PM, called Mossy to the palace and said that he, Pahlavi, would support Mossy if the new PM would promise to carry out said nationalization. Of course. Who wants foreigners plundering their wealth?
You can verify this by reading "Countercoup" (if you can find a copy) the story of the overthrow, and the end of good relations with Iran, and the start of the current misery.
See who wrote Countercoup. You may be astonished
NewandExciting
July 26th, 2010 at 10:39 pm
"Show me a Nation possessed of a significant Muslim community and I will show you a Nation in conflict. " I can show you plenty of non-Muslim countries that have more than their fair share of conflict, no Islam required. FARC? ETA? LRA? Tamil Tigers? Face it, conflict is part of human history and predates Islam by thousands of years, if not longer.
R/T
July 27th, 2010 at 1:40 am
As the great Frank Zappa said : "Everbody's clapping , for all the wrong reasons " .
Regardless of trufers , everyone knows it was 19 muslims , claiming religious ideology as their reason , who perpetrated the attack on 9/11 . And whether or not some may think "we had it coming " 3000 innocents were murdered on that location. And given the FACT that no religious churches , temples or otherwise are permited to be built in most of the muslim dominated countries , nor are repairs permitted where they do exist , and even many of those have and are being burnt to the ground , muslims out of respect should let this one go .
R/T
July 27th, 2010 at 1:54 am
There are more mosques in the US than in some muslim countries , and no "special permits " or "religious rulings " are required to build one here . There is a symbolism here that rubs raw emotions , and defies conmmon sense , for even the name of the "center " , Cordoba , is pregnant with symbolism , for when the muslims conquered Spain , that City was the first to recieve the ultimate sign of muslim dominance and conquest …a mosque .The Cordoba Mosque .
And yes , it IS like building a Shinto Shrine in Pear lHarbor , although Shginto Shrines can be built anywhere else in this country , it's simply in bad taste and a sign of direspect to do so at Pearl Harbor , REGARDLESS of anyones politics .
R/T
July 27th, 2010 at 2:02 am
AND BTW SCOTTC , you said :
Egoist, Islam, Sharia is a voluntary, democratic system, with a more venerable set of case law than any other in the world. Many of our Common Law mercies to widows and consumer protections issue directly from Sharia. Sharia varies just as the rule of law varies.
You are seriously misinformed , there is no place on the globe where Sharia Law is practiced , that is voluntary , or democratic .Nor is it any kind of "model " for any western law . The very premiswe of Sharia Law is that it will be forced and resistance crushed . Who are you kidding guy ?
R/T
July 27th, 2010 at 2:06 am
And in case you hadn't noticed ScottC , the penalty for leaving islam under Sharia Law is DEATH . And that is universal .
camus10
July 27th, 2010 at 6:01 am
<< no religious churches , temples or otherwise are permited to be built in most of the muslim dominated countries >>
that may be true but it has absolutely nothing to do with the logic of denying freedom of expression at a time the US badly needs to adhere to its core values.
You are on the wrong side of history, R/T. WW3 against islam, the restriction on islam in the west is certain to backfire and will not make the west any safer. The future belongs to those who shun the paranoid tyranny of the security state and embrace bridge building and understanding. It does take a leap of faith to continue the traditions for which patriotic sacrifices were made by many worthy revolutionaries far more realistic than the Zappa you think you are channeling
Mike V.
July 27th, 2010 at 6:42 am
This article is disgracefully dishonest.
It is dishonest in the very first paragraph, where Raimondo writes, "To begin with, the proposed Islamic center – not a mosque, but the Muslim equivalent of the YMCA – a nonprofit foundation wants to build in New York City isn’t at "ground zero," it is four blocks from the site of the World Trade Center."
The first lie in this paragraph is that the Islamic center is "not a mosque, the the Muslim equivalent of the YMCA". Yet according to the very NY Daily News article to which Raimondo links, "The proposed 13-story Cordoba House will be opened in a former Burlington Coat Factory on Park Place – two blocks from Ground Zero. It would include classrooms, a fitness center and a mosque." Okay so it's not ONLY a mosque, it is also a madrassa with a fitness center. (Can't say I recall ever seeing a 13-story YMCA)
The second lie in this paragraph is that the proposed location of the mega-mosque "Cordoba House" is four blocks from Ground Zero. Yet, if you simply Google the location, you will find that Cordoba House is to be located at Park Place, in between Church Street and West Broadway, TWO blocks, NOT four blocks as Raimondo writes.
A third "half-truth" in the second paragraph of this article is where Raimondo writes "…there is already a mosque four blocks away from the site of the World Trade Center (see here), which has been there for many years."
There is simply no comparison, as Raimondo implies, between the small, unassuming, 30+ year old Masjid Manhattan (previously at 384 Broadway, now at 20 Warren Street) and the proposed multi-story mega-mosque / Islamic cultural center.
Raimondo's delirious ranting and ad hominem attacks against Leonard Peikoff and the Ayn Rand Institute are clearly signs that he is hiding behind the fact that has no idea of what he is writing about.
Andrewp111
July 30th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
I don't care about pro-islamic, religious freedon, and property rights arguments, for they miss the point entirely. The "mosque" (or whatever it is) must be stopped. When the muslims build the largest mosque in the US just 2 blocks from ground zero, they (and their Saudi backers) are doing it for one and only one reason. They are rubbing our faces in 9-11, and declaring "we won". They are saying "Ha Ha Ha Ha – the WTC hasn't been rebuilt and never will be, but we are building the largest mosque in North America right here. So F. U." I can almost hear them laughing like Woody Woodpecker. No group of enemy vermin should be allowed to make such a statement in the USA.
Joel-Alexis Bialkiewicz
August 14th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
I mostly agree. Although building something Muslim near Ground Zero is morally disgusting, as would be a Synagogue in Hebron or a Maronite church in Shatila, it is fully legitimate and preventing it would be an aggression against property rights. This does not mean that the President of the United States of American should give his moral sanction to it, which is, in my opinion, a very bad message to send. Regular Muslims will probably not want to go to a place that is a provocation in itself, so it is probably going to attract fanatics. Still, people are allowed to dig their own grave on their private property if they want to.
However, as many people of the anti-war movement forget, the attacks on Iran are not unprovoked. Indeed, Iran is sowing the seeds of war very far from its borders. In the case of the Israel/Palestine conflict, and I confess to being mostly pro-Israel, Iran has proven they are at least as much imperialists as the USA. And last time I checked, the USA was still an ally of Israel. Iran does not just want to be left alone. It is going to seek confrontation until it finds it, probably because as many Western leaders in the past, its leaders need an external enemy to unite its people behind them. And indeed, unlike many other Muslim countries, a large part of the Iranian population is mostly pro-West. Of course, if some idiot bombs them, this will cease very fast.
I do not share the views of Ayn Rand on Russia, but there is something infuriating in watching fellow human beings be oppressed and not being able to do anything at all. Like many criminals, dictators are experts at taking hostages. And unfortunately, even if the next Iranian revolution is fully internal, many people are going to die.
If you have a solution, please share. I don't.
Bob Johnson
August 23rd, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Michael M, you are spot on. I was looking for a rational response to the article, finally found it. To quote:
"The operative word here should be "emergency", and the discussion should focus on how impending the danger to America would be from treating groups openly hostile to us as if they were reciprocally intent on preserving the rights of all other men…Thus Peikoff could be ahead of himself in his application, but his grounds in regard to rights is secure."
We may both be a bit uncomfortable with Peikoff, but not for the reasons Justin is, he is merely relying on instinct, not principle. I agree with your Principle #2. Justin talks about killing innocents as some sort of desirable goal for Objectivists. What Justin needs to understand, is those who act in self defense have a moral obligation to put their own safety before their enemies, whether in whole or in part. The operating question is – "Can I end this threat without jeopardizing the people around my enemy, and without jeopardizing my own soldiers?" If the answer is "no" your next obligation in the hierarchy of values is your own soldiers, no ifs, ands, or buts.
Bob Johnson
August 23rd, 2010 at 2:53 pm
And you are of course free from such bias, "Rachel_Corrie." Can you tell me where Peikoff shows his "Zionism"? Other than your mind reading, of course.