The latest message from Osama bin Laden – an audio recording posted on jihadist Web sites – is truly scary. Not because he threatens us with death and destruction, though he does. Not because he vows that the 9/11 attacks were just the beginning, though this is strongly implied. And not because he’s the kind of guy who gives evil a bad name. Although few would dispute his unique malevolence, the really frightening aspect of his latest message is its clear-headed insight into the way American foreign policy is made – and by whom.
The sinister atmospherics start out right from the beginning, as bin Laden greets his audience:
"Praise be to God, Who created people to worship Him, ordered them to be just, and permitted the wronged to mete out fair punishment to the wrongdoer."
You can almost hear an organ groaning in the background and smell a whiff
of sulfur. Halloween comes early this year. His Satanic Majesty continues:
“American people: This address to you is a reminder of the causes of 11
[September] and the wars and consequences that followed and the way to settle
it once and for all. I mention in particular the families of those who were
hurt in these events and who have recently called for opening an investigation
to know its causes. This is a first and important step in the right direction
among many other steps that have deliberately gone in the wrong direction over
eight barren years that you have experienced."
I have to give bin Laden points for chutzpah: here, after all, is the perpetrator
of the 9/11 terrorist attacks calling for an investigation into the "cause"
of the nefarious deed committed by none
other than his nefarious self!
“The entire American people should follow suit," the Evil One continues,
"as the delay in knowing those reasons has cost you a lot without any
noteworthy benefit." Okay, let’s start translating, because interpretation
is necessary at this point.
To begin with, the "cause" of the 9/11 terrorist attacks was and is none other than al-Qaeda, which conceived, planned, and carried them out. If we translate "reasons" to mean al-Qaeda talking points, however, bin Laden starts to make sense. Indeed, he makes so much sense that one despairs we will ever be rid of his perfidious spawn.
It may be true, as George W. Bush and his supporters claimed,
that bin Laden and his cohorts hate us "for our freedom," that is,
they hate America per se. That, however, is totally irrelevant as far
as their operational strategy and tactics, including their propaganda, are concerned:
they must come up with concrete
accusations, rather than abstract denunciations based on pure theology,
in order to recruit, mobilize, and spur their followers to action. They must,
in short, point to
the record
of the United States government in its relations with the Muslim world, and
there is no
shortage of grievances to be found in this regard. Bin Laden and al-Qaeda
feed on these grievances like vultures on carrion, and in order for his movement
to gain legitimacy in the eyes of the Muslim masses these complaints must have
some basis in fact – otherwise bin Laden would be just another crank living
on the margins, with few followers and no influence. As it is, he presents an
analysis that must seem incisive not only in the Muslim world, but to any thinking
Westerner:
"At the beginning, I say that we have made it clear and stated so many
times for over two decades that the cause of the quarrel with you is your support
for your Israeli allies, who have occupied our land, Palestine. This position
of yours, along with some other grievances, is what prompted us to carry out
the 11 September events. Had you known the magnitude of our suffering as a
result of the injustice of the Jews against us, with the support of your administrations
for them, you would have known that both our nations are victims of the policies
of the White House, which is in fact a hostage in the hands of pressure groups,
especially major corporations and the Israeli lobby."
A government held hostage by pressure groups: who can argue with that? The corporate powers-that-be have long considered the U.S. military their private police force and have acted accordingly, using it to secure their profit margins ever since America’s debut on the world stage as a full-fledged imperial power. As for the decisive influence of the Israel lobby, it is indisputable. After all, what other nation on earth could get away with placing an entire people in subjection, creating a system of legal apartheid, and relentlessly expanding its territory by means of conquest – and still remain the number-one recipient of U.S. foreign aid?
Bin Laden goes on to cite a book by someone who sounds very much like the author of Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, getting the title wrong, as well as Jimmy Carter’s book, remarking on the former president’s latest trip to the Middle East, where he denounced the treatment of Gazans. Bin Laden also cites Obama’s Cairo speech as acknowledging the suffering of the Palestinian people. The plight of the Palestinians, he avers, is "tragic beyond limits," and this tragedy is made possible due to "the influence of the Israeli lobby in America," the details of which "are explained by two of your fellow citizens. They are John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt in their book The Israel Lobby in the United States."
The hate-Mearsheimer/Walt brigade – such as Bibi Netanyahu’s American PR director, Jeffrey Goldberg over at The Atlantic, and neocon Peter Wehner at National Review – are over the moon on account of this "endorsement." To the guilt-by-association school of book reviewing, the contents of a book – or an argument – matter little, but as the redoubtable John Derbyshire points out to Wehner:
"The Walt/Mearsheimer book seems, from a reading around it, to argue that lobbies on behalf of Israel are more powerful in Washington than lobbies for a foreign country ought to be, and have an undesirable influence on U.S. foreign policy. Those assertions are either true, or else they’re not. People with an interest in the matter should peruse Walt & Mearsheimer’s arguments, compare them with counter-arguments (which I can’t imagine are hard to find), and tell us their conclusions.
"Osama bin Laden thinks Jews are evil, so it is not very surprising that the thesis of the Walt/Mearsheimer book appeals to him. What I resist is Peter’s implication that his endorsement tells us anything about the quality of the book’s arguments. It doesn’t…. Arguments have to be studied, weighed, and compared with the facts of the world, not laughed out of court because some nutcase has endorsed them."
That this needs to be said at all speaks volumes about the sad state of our public discourse, yet I would take Derbyshire’s point and raise him one: the same objectivity ought to illuminate our view of bin Laden’s arguments. He may be a nutcase, and a murderous one to boot, and yet he is a very smart (and dangerous) nutcase, one whose analysis we would do well to take seriously – or ignore at our peril.
"After reading the suggested books, you will know the truth and you will be severely shocked at the magnitude of deception that has been practiced against you. You will also know that those who make statements from inside the White House today and claim that your wars against us are necessary for your security are in fact working along the same line of Cheney and Bush, and propagating the former policies of intimidation to market the interests of the relevant major corporations, at the expense of your blood and economy. Those in fact are the ones who are imposing wars on you, not the mujahedin. We are just defending our right to liberate our land."
This is what bin Laden has maintained all
along: that he is fighting a defensive war, not a war of aggression, and
there is merit in his argument – as anyone with even a cursory knowledge of
Western meddling in the Middle East can readily tell you. This nonsense
about al-Qaeda establishing a "worldwide Islamic caliphate" is a rather
fanciful invention, created by "clash of civilization" types
who need to rationalize their view of Islam as being somehow intrinsically aggressive.
If bin Laden actually tried to recruit jihadists to the cause of somehow conquering
the West, including the U.S., and subjecting it to sharia law, he would
have far fewer recruits. No, he must
present his jihad as a desperate battle against foreign invaders and occupiers
– a role that we have done much to legitimate in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan,
and throughout the world.
“If you thoroughly consider your situation, you will know that the White
House is occupied by pressure groups. You should have made efforts to liberate
it rather than fight to liberate Iraq, as Bush claimed. The White House leader,
under such circumstances, and regardless of who he is, is like a train driver
who cannot but travel on the railways designed by these pressure groups. Otherwise,
his way would be blocked and he would fear that his destiny would be like that
of former president Kennedy and his brother."
Who writes Osama’s material? I suspect it’s this
guy. In any case, the author of the following words surely has an unusual
grasp on the essentials of our present foreign policy conundrum:
"In a nutshell, it is time to free yourselves from fear and intellectual
terrorism being practiced against you by the neoconservatives and the Israeli
lobby. You should put the file of your alliance with the Israelis on the table
of discussion. You should ask yourselves the following question so that you
can determine your position: Do you like the Israelis’ security, sons, and
economy more than your security, blood, sons, money, jobs, houses, economy,
and reputation? If you choose your security and stopping the wars – and this
has been shown by opinion polls – then this requires that you act to stop those
who are tampering with our security on your end. We are prepared to respond
to this option on sound and fair foundations that have been mentioned before."
If any phrase sums up the strategy and tactics of the neocons during the past eight years or so, then surely "intellectual terrorism" is it. This juxtaposition of Israeli and American interests as increasingly antithetical, with the former being pursued at the expense of the latter, is similarly powerful. What’s interesting here, however, in light of recent reports that al-Qaeda is faltering, both organizationally and ideologically, is this apparent offer of a truce, or even an end to the hostilities. He’s done it before, in previous messages, but this pointed polemic has about it the air of someone who is desperate to get his message across: many of his previous pronouncements have been framed in terms of a message to the American people, yet his real intended audience seemed always to be the Arab/Muslim world. In this missive, however, with its references to American authors and political figures, one has to wonder whom he thinks he’s persuading: the offer of a cease-fire, or even a peaceful resolution of the conflict, displays an odd naiveté.
Obama, he argues, is a prisoner of his own office, who would surely suffer the same fate as John F. Kennedy if he ever tried to break the pattern of U.S. interventionism worldwide. While that, perhaps, is a bit melodramatic, it speaks to a basic truth: the American elites and the policymaking process they direct is biased in favor of interventionism, as the history of the last 60 or so years makes all too clear. Like many of Obama’s disappointed liberal supporters, bin Laden is asking: Where’s the "change"? With President Obama in office, we have neoconservatism without neoconservatives, or, as bin Laden puts it, "The days will show you that you have changed only faces in the White House. The bitter truth is that the neoconservatives are still a heavy burden on you."
He’s right about that. It’s almost like having Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz in charge, for all the difference it makes in terms of the conduct of American foreign policy. Again and again bin Laden displays his acute political sense, as well as his cruelty:
“This is a losing war, God willing, as it is funded by money that is borrowed based on exorbitant usury and is fought by soldiers whose morale is down and who commit suicide on a daily basis to escape from this war."
It was bin Laden, you’ll recall, who predicted
the impending bankruptcy of the U.S. as a result of its endless wars, and this
fillip stings all the more since it is uttered post-crash, as the U.S. economy
continues its downward slide into what seems like a bottomless abyss.
“This war was prescribed to you by two doctors, Cheney and Bush, as a cure
for the 11 September events. However, the bitterness and losses caused by this
war are worse than the bitterness of the events themselves. The accumulated
debts incurred as a result of this war have almost done away with the U.S.
economy as a whole. It has been said that disease could be less evil than some
medicines."
He ends with poetry:
“Endless war will not tire me
For I am now fully grown and strong,
For this, my mother begot me,
Peace be upon those who follow guidance.”
Endless war will eventually destroy us, not due to bin Laden’s efforts, but
on account of our own. This is what they call "blowback,"
in CIA parlance: the consequences, however unintended, of U.S. actions abroad.
The boomerang effect is already taking a heavy toll, and it will get heavier
still – which is what bin Laden is counting on.
Given the direction our leaders are taking us – more wars, and bigger ones, in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and now Somalia – bin Laden is not wrong to count on our exhaustion and coming defeat. He simply has to wait us out – and time is on his side.
We have, it seems to me, never taken bin Laden and al-Qaeda all that seriously, and that, ultimately, will be our undoing. In him we face an unrelenting and devilishly intelligent enemy, one who knows our weaknesses and leverages them to his advantage.
The only way to defeat bin Laden is to change our foreign policy – not by putting lipstick on a pig and murmuring sweet nothings in the ear of the Muslim world, as Obama did in Cairo, but by doing a complete about-face and abandoning our dreams of empire. Short of that, bin Laden’s satanic self-confidence, I’m sad to say, is fully justified.
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- Two Cheers for ‘Isolationism’ – May 19th, 2013
- Our Civil Liberties, RIP – May 16th, 2013
- Raping the World – May 14th, 2013
- The Price of Peace – May 12th, 2013
- Boycott Israel? – May 9th, 2013





wadosy
September 16th, 2009 at 4:11 am
"Evil Speaks – Are We Listening?"…
… aka, "the tapdance of the libertarian kommissars"…
…posted in reply to a phony tape from a dead boogeyman, who was created by the CIA and its mass media handmaidens to provide the pretext for our continuing military presence in the middle east and central asia.
too bad nobody can come up with any proof that bin laden had anything to do with 9/11.
wadosy
September 16th, 2009 at 4:15 am
…but you do have a point…
it's too damn bad that we are told more truth by a dead boogeyman —who was created by the CIA and its mass media handmaidens to provide the pretext for our continuing military presence in the middle east and central asia— than we are by our supposedly legitimate leaders and media.
…present company unexcluded.
Nelson_2008
September 16th, 2009 at 4:55 am
First of all, Osama bin Laden is obviously dead, and has been for years.
Secondly, if he and al-Qaeda really were responsible for 9/11, he/they would've made a legitimate claim of responsibility. You don't pull off the most daring, most damaging terrorist attack of all time and then try to hide, letting a panel of fatuous government stooges tell the world you did it because you "hate our freedom" or some such puerile, self-serving nonsense. (Another facet of the official story that doesn't make any sense).
If you have any evidence that OBL had anything to do with 9/11, then let's see it; if not, kindly stop shilling for the neocon madmen intent on destroying us.
Lastly, even if OBL were still alive and doing real "terrorism", the underlying fact of the matter is that the "jihadists" are fighting a defensive war. The "unique malevolence" I see is the gratuitous genocide being waged against the Arab/Islamic world by the USraeli Empire. Compared to the horrific evil of Bush I, Bush II, Obama, Olmert, Sharon Netanyahu, etc., Osama bin Laden is a piker.
jackbootstate
September 16th, 2009 at 8:25 am
"We have, it seems to me, never taken bin Laden and al-Qaeda all that seriously, and that, ultimately, will be our undoing. In him we face an unrelenting and devilishly intelligent enemy, one who knows our weaknesses and leverages them to his advantage."
Justin, you can't be serious? This little rag tag guerrilla army call al'Qaeda is a "threat" to the military and economic might of the U.S.? Give me a break.
"Otherwise, his way would be blocked and he would fear that his destiny would be like that of former president Kennedy and his brother.""
Oh boy, even the Islamic militants want to make a saint out of JFK.
JFK invaded South Vietnam. JFK assassinated Diem, escalating the conflict beyond the point of no return and guaranteeing that the conflict would be settled militarily. JFK was a committed imperialist and no amount of revisionist myth making about him and his legacy can change his ugly truth about his awful Indochina policies.
Pattonpaws
September 16th, 2009 at 9:40 am
I would wager this latest "bin Laden" tape is a CIA fake…like all the others. Bin Laden is dead, probably since 2001. The FBI still does not have a case against bi Laden. With no incriminating evidence, the FBI does not believe bin Laden had anything to do with 9-11. A growing number of intelligence people and government officials indicate the "al Qaeda" boogeyman is another fiction created by the CIA and the Mossad. This fiction suggest a substantial CIA/Mossad involvement in 9-11. Justine just doesn't get it.
Geo1671
September 16th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Witch Craze: Terror and Fantasy in USA
Justin–I'm scared "The fairy tale is about a stepmother who abandons her children to die because times are hard, and a cannibalistic witch who builds a fantastic house of military hardware"
Please Justin,instead of hiding, as a referral, that actually Ben Ladin is an Kosher american pretending to be him.Stop with the Balony that Osama has a Al Qqedia speech writer—Booooo!
RodW
September 16th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Very interesting. I don't think I've seen Justin call anybody else 'evil' – not Bush, not Blair, not any of the Israelis, not any generals, not the Clintons – all of whom bear responsibility for similar numbers of victims. Why is just bin Laden 'evil'? Justin even skates pretty close to admitting that bin Laden speaks more truthfully than any of the above mentioned parties, and yet he is still 'evil'. Then why the melodrama?
bin Laden initially denied responsibility for 9/11 (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binlade… Of course this may have been a lie, but he is reported to have said;
"The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it. I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons"
Are we listening, and if not, why not? If we assume that all the statements attributed to bin Laden are indeed from him, the change of his tune is interesting. What does it all mean Justin? Do you have a clue?
RodW
September 16th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Very interesting. I don't think I've seen Justin call anybody else 'evil' – not Bush, not Blair, not any of the Israelis, not any generals, not the Clintons – all of whom bear responsibility for similar numbers of victims. Why is just bin Laden 'evil'? Justin even skates pretty close to admitting that bin Laden speaks more truthfully than any of the above mentioned parties, and yet he is still 'evil'. Then why the melodrama?
bin Laden initially denied responsibility for 9/11 (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binlade… Of course this may have been a lie, but he is reported to have said;
"The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it. I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons"
Are we listening, and if not, why not? If we assume that all the statements attributed to bin Laden are indeed from him, the change of his tune is interesting. What does it all mean Justin? Do you have a clue?
DrFix
September 16th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Is it Osama or is it Memorex? Seriously! After Justins 9/11 back flips, and now this, I'm beginning to think that April Fools came early.
DrFix
September 16th, 2009 at 11:29 am
So "who" was responsible for 9-11? Oh, that's right, I'm with the nut jobs who think it isn't the man whose bones more than likely lie buried in some cave in Tora Bora. Crazy me!
wadosy
September 16th, 2009 at 5:22 am
the whole miserable thing —including your miserable career, and walt's career, and the career of any idiot that has media aspirations— hinges on regurgitating the official bin laden story, doesnt it?
and apparently you are unwilling to face the fact that the people who most likely staged 9/11 are the people who said they needed a 9/11 a couple months before they were put into positions from which they could make their 9/11 happen.
these same people have a history of false flags.
they've admittedly abandoned their morals.
they believe strauss's theory of governing elites lying to the governed as a matter of policy.
they believe they can create their own reality.
they're religious and/or racist fanatics.
they've been likened to nazis by einstein.
they had the motive, means, opportunity, character and prior convictions galore.
but we're clinging to the bin laden story, like drowning rats cling to a disintegrating turd.
yes, we are.
Namlas
September 16th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Who specifically was likened to Nazis by Einstein?
blogged-in » Blog Archive » Osama bin Laden taler - lytter vi?
September 16th, 2009 at 8:46 am
[...] hans kollektive kald til muslimer verden over har resonans, og han kender USA’s svagheder. Justin Raimondo skriver på AntiWar: Endless war will eventually destroy us, not due to bin Laden’s efforts, but on account of our [...]
RickR30
September 16th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
American Zionists
jackbootstate
September 16th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Here Justin adopts the framing of Bin Laden from the imperialist point of view. Bin Laden is not a resistance movement leader who happens to use immoral resistance tactics, he's just plain "evil".
If one accepts the logic of this kind of framing of Bin Laden, it then follows that all resistance to U.S. imperialism is inherently "evil".
jeff_davis
September 16th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Well, it's looking bad, Justin. Your last column dissed the "truthers". Now, predictably they've come to camp out on your doorstep and endlessly disgorge their delusional blather. And while some are reasonably normal people sucked in by a sort of mass hypnosis, the most pathetic and bothersome are the self-worth-starved true-believers, desperate to find affirmation in the fellowship of the ranting mob. If you don't moderate your column's "Comments" section and cleanse it of the "truther" scourge, they will plague you forever. Good luck.
Yesterday, I chanced to visit Tony Karon's "Rootless Cosmopolitan" blog where I found a truncated version of his September 11th Time Magazine piece "Why Bin Laden Lost".
This seemed to me a bit of September 11th Anniversary delusional suck-up, so I offered a little reality-based pushback. Here it is (polished up a bit):
"Bin Laden Wins! Get over it."
Bleech!!
I suppose Tony’s got to pay his bills, so when Time steps up to provide the paycheck, Tony's gonna do what a man's got to do.
But again, bleech!
Eight years out, Osama is the clear winner, but I'm guessing that Time won’t be paying anyone for that essay.
“Mainstream Muslims” — who are they? — were repulsed by the wanton loss of innocent life? Really? No doubt they’ll say that if you point a tape recorder at them, but what do they think privately? Probably something like “The US got what it deserved. Too bad innocent people had to die, but, hey, payback’s a bitch. Now the Americans know how it feels. Pass the hummus, please.” Again, no Time magazine paycheck for that essay.
So trashTony’s little Kool-Aid piece, and check out the skinny:
Osama attacked the US…
Mission Accomplished. Score: Osama 1, US 0.
…in order to provoke the US into invading Afghanistan, where the US could be bled out like the Soviets and British before them.
Mission Accomplished. Score Osama 2, US 0.
Bush declared he would get Osama; Bush failed.
Mission not Accomplished. Score: Osama 3, US 0.
Bush back-burner’s Afghanistan and, on the basis of a neocon-generated a pack of lies, plunges with breath-taking incompetence headlong into his Iraqi cluster-fuck. Osama smiles and praises Allah.
Bush is a moron. Ten Special “Mission-not-Accomplished” bonus points.
Score: Osama 13, US 0.
Bush spends 5 years “doing” Iraq: 5 points for Osama; and 5 years jerking off in Afghanistan: 5 more points for Osama: 5 + 5 = 10 points for Osama
Score: Osama 23, US 0.
In Iraq, under US protection, the Shia come to dominate, and begin a love fest with Shia Iran.
Mission-so-not-Accomplished! Minus five points for Iran-o-phobic US, minus five points for Sunni Iran-o-phobic Osama.
Score: Osama 18, US -5.
Americans start shooting up Pakistani. Pakistanis, at US behest, start shooting each other. Incomprehensible shitstorm intensifies. Twenty-eight million Pakistani Pashtuns join their twelve million Afghan brothers in the “AfPak” war against the Americans.
Osama earns 25 points.
“Mission? What mission?”-so-not-acomplished. Osama smiles, and gives thanks to Allah.
Score:Osama 43, US -5.
US economy implodes. Five bonus points for Osama.
Score: Osama 48, US -5
George Bush leaves White house, Osama loses his single greatest ally: Minus 25 points for Osama. Obama enters White House, continues Bush's “weasel” strategy in Iraq: 10 points for Osama. Finally, with the Bushwar team still in place, Obama commits US to Afghanistan per Osama’s original plan: 50 points for Osama.
Over the cliff and waiting for the end.
Score: Osama 83, US -5.
Going into the forth quarter (or is it the second half?), the US record is one of utter failure on every front: no progress, no plan, no prospects but defeat, humiliation, and penury. It’s not looking good for the Golden City on the Hill.
Consequently, this writer feels confident in “calling” the outcome of the contest.
Osama wins. No paycheck from Time.
Nelson_2008
September 16th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
Well said, jackbootstate.
Yes, I must say I too am deeply disappointed with the "reasoning" Justin displays here.
Moreover, I'm sorry to say that I've now come to generally suspect antiwar.com's motives. For example, regardless of antiwar.com's views on exactly what happened on 09/11/2001, when a peer-reviewed journal paper was published showing the presence of significant quantities of explosive/incendiary nanothermite material in the WTC dust, clearly implying "controlled-demolition" and "inside job", well that wasn't even considered newsworthy at antiwar.com (or lewrockwell.com either I might add)? Gimme a break!
Antiwar.com have clearly become gatekeepers, and we don't need any more gatekeepers; if we are to save ourselves, we need the truth, as awful as it apparently is.
RodW
September 16th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
"and smell a whiff of sulfur"
Borrowing from Hugo Chávez? It was quite funny when Chávez used it against Bush. Here, it just comes across as pathetic.
Once all this silly posturing is removed from the article, it becomes clear that bin Laden is just saying what Antiwar has been saying all along, 'cruelty' included. This camouflage job looks like nothing more than cowardice to me.
jackbootstate
September 16th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Wait a second, I never said anything about supporting the "controlled demolition" claim, or the missile hit the Pentagon claim, or anything of the other claims being put forward by the 9/11 truthers. 9/11 was a product of resistance to U.S. imperialism, rooted in Arab resentment at the behavior of the U.S. government in the Middle East.
And I'm tired of every prominent writer who disagrees with the 9/11 truthers being cast as a "Gate Keepers". One would think that 911truth.org and all the other pro-U.S. government conspiracy websites were being shut down on orders from Chomsky and Justin.
Evil Speaks – Are We Listening? Of course not « L’s Word
September 16th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
[...] How to Bring Peace to Afghanistan – http://tinyurl.com/lfcg56 3 weeks ago Evil Speaks – Are We Listening? Of course not September 17, 2009, 1:21 am Filed under: 911, Afghanistan, George Bush, Israel, Jews, Muslim, Osama bin Laden, Pakistan, Palistine by Justin Raimondo, September 16, 2009 [...]
jtgw
September 17th, 2009 at 1:40 am
I imagine Justin and Nebojsa have heated discussions about just how intrinsically violent Islam is. The anti-war arguments operate on very different assumptions whether we are speaking about our ventures in the Balkans or the Middle East.
ProJustice
September 17th, 2009 at 3:59 am
Until I see a convincing video of a living, breathing, moving Osama, I'll stick with the conclusion that he's been dead for a while. At the very least he's still on the CIA payroll, because for the life of me I can't understand how men living in caves in a 3rd world country occupied by the US for 8 years can slip through our fingers while traveling by donkey, and manage to produce videos and issue statements while they're at it.
His recordings always surface at the most advantageous time for the White House, and usually ring of truth. This could serve two purposes: 1) It might still appeal to any Muslims who are either pissed off or stupid enough to look to him as a leader, and 2) Osama's message echos and applauds the antiwar and 9/11 truth movements, thereby making it uncomfortable enough for Americans to not want to be associated with something OBL endorses.
You don't really want to agree with Osama bin Laden on anything, do you? I didn't think so.
Evil Speaks – Are We Listening? « Patrick J. Buchanan – Official Website
September 16th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
[...] SOURCE: AntiWar.com [...]
Nelson_2008
September 16th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
"[D]elusional blather"? LOL! Well, look who's talkin'! You're supposed to be looking at your monitor, not your mirror, "Jeff", as you type your hapless statist drivel.
And "moderation", you suggest? Being that you have nothing of substance to contribute, I can see why that would appeal to you. (Plus you're probably overworked, too, right "Jeff"? How many forums are ya workin' now?)
Nelson_2008
September 16th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Firstly, sorry but 9/11 was an inside job. It had to be, since it's physically impossible for WTC7, for example, to "collapse" at free-fall acceleration while maintaining a perfect or near perfect profile. It's simply impossible for "fire" to have caused the precision, simultaneous removal of all vertical support basically throughout the whole volume of the building. A collapse from "fire" would be so qualitatively different that you likely couldn't even define any kind of downward acceleration.
But that wasn't my point and I didn't ascribe any of that to you.
What Justin is doing with regard to Osama bin Laden is a form of "gatekeeping", and what antiwar.com is doing with 9/11 is a form of "gatekeeping" as well. Regardless of what you personally believe happened on 9/11, the paper I mentioned should be legitimate news to a real "antiwar" site, and it wasn't. Thus I now question their motives in general.
It's not a matter of "disagreeing", it's a matter of outright censorship of important 9/11 related news.
DrFix
September 17th, 2009 at 6:52 am
LOL!!! Regardless, this was funny. I'll grant Osama infinity plus 1.
DrFix
September 17th, 2009 at 6:55 am
How apropos! You're right. Funny how these tapes "surface" like toilet floaters at the most opportune times. I keep imagining the people who produce this "sh*t" laughing their asses off.
dumdum666
September 17th, 2009 at 8:15 am
haven't u heard eminem – bin laden didn't blow up the projects! cmon dude its too early to sell out
Henry_Clemens
September 17th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Yes, Justin is correct, OBL is evil. However, America's ruling establishment is even more evil. End the Federal Reserve System (the FED). It is the means by which the ruling establishment finances its perpetual wars. End the Council on Foreign Relation's (CFR) stranglehold on foreign policy. It is the means by which the establishment constantly manipulates every presidential administration into initiating immoral, unjustifed and brutal wars of aggression for profit. Stop hacking at the branches of evil; strike at the establishment roots of evil instead.
jackbootstate
September 18th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Yes, I'm familiar with this line of argument. "It couldn't have happened that way", and, therefore, a massive conspiracy internal to the Bush administration has to be the explanation for it all. The individual Arabs who took part in it are conveniently erased from history in this kind of narrative, because it is convenient to the imaginations of people who want to see it all being managed by Cheney from his office. Why do so many people have to insist that it was all the work of the U.S. government despite credible evidence of a U.S. government conspiracy to do the deed?
9/11 was the product of a conspiracy all right, but it was a conspiracy of Arabs, mostly Saudi Arabs, fueled by their resent of the U.S.-Israeli occupations of Arabs lands, and U.S. Afghanistan and Iraq policies.
Evil Speaks – Are We Listening? « Locust blog
September 19th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
[...] By Justin Raimondo – AntiWar.com [...]
Nelson_2008
September 21st, 2009 at 3:51 am
That's pure nonsense. I'll bet you even believe that the Zionist attack on the USS Liberty was an "accident"?
First, why do you keep studiously ignoring the obvious controlled demolition of the buildings, especially WTC7?
Second, if 9/11 was a "legitimate" act of terrorism, there would have been a legitimate claim of responsibility…a verifiably authentic statement of some kind would've been made. And there wasn't.
Moreover, there's no actual proof that "Arabs" were the "masterminds" behind 9/11; nor is there even any proof that "Arabs" were at the controls of the planes for that matter.
If "Arabs" were involved at all (and I don't think they were) , they were patsies.
Nelson_2008
September 21st, 2009 at 4:08 am
BTW, I don't know of anyone who insists it was "all the work of the U.S. government".
The facts point to the attack being just another Zionist false-flag operation, just like e.g., the USS Liberty, albeit a high-tech one, of course aided and abetted by some high level traitors in the U.S. government, e.g., Cheney; no doubt with the participation of some hapless, lower level "patriotic" people who were duped into helping out.
Maybe you're not aware that 5 Mossad operatives were openly celebrating the event in Liberty Park? Maybe you're not aware that the head Mossad guy at the front company "Urban Moving Systems" fled the U.S. to Israel in a rush?
Maybe you're not aware of the obvious, ham-fisted coverup psyop involving Israeli agents: http://colorado911visibility.org/2009/05/26/%e2%8…
Sorry to bother you with facts, but your theory simply has no basis in reality.
jackbootstate
September 21st, 2009 at 4:10 am
There was no "controlled demolition" of anything on September 11. The idea of a "controlled demolition" is an expression of religious faith by the conspiracy mythmakers. Instead of the the Hand of God being used to "explain" the world, the many Hands of the Illuminati are responsible for everything that happens. (When you write, "If "Arabs" were involved at all (and I don't think they were) , they were patsies.")
I never said there was anything "legitimate" about the September 11 attacks, just that they were acts of anti-imperialist resistance that happened to be criminal in character.
I like the way how you put "Arabs" in quotes. Arab people don't exist in the fantasy world of the 9/11 truthers. They don't resent being attacked by and occupied by Americans and Israelis. They don't get together and talk among themselves in Arabic about resisting U.S.-Israeli imperialism. If they happen to show up anywhere in the world, they must be patsies of an all powerful conspiracy being directed in Washington and Jerusalem.
Nelson_2008
September 21st, 2009 at 12:13 pm
LOL! What nonsense! You're simply ignoring all the facts that don't fit with your theory!
When 9/11 first happened, I thought the same thing you're saying now. But it simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
And you're going to pretend you don't understand the sense in which I used the term "legitimate", for example?
And you're not going to explain how or why "Arabs" paraded an Israeli agent, Hyman Brown, around the country pretending to be the "go to" guy on the WTC towers? And you're not going to explain where the nanothermite came from? And you're not going to explain how "fire" caused the simultaneous removal of all vertical support throughout the whole volume of WTC7?
Since you're obviously not interested in honest discussion, I guess I won't waste anymore time on you.
jackbootstate
September 21st, 2009 at 7:11 pm
I've tortured myself by reading Ruppert's pile of nonsense "Crossing The Rubicon" and Griffin's "The New Pearl Harbor". Books like this do what you're doing here. Pose a bunch of questions to the people who don't buy into the nonsense of the conspiracy theory revisionists. But the onus is on those who want to put forward such extraordinary claims to actually provide some real evidence that September 11 attacks were organized somewhere else. It's simply not there, and I find it fascinating that so many people refuse to accept this.
What I am interested in is an anti-war movement that can be taken seriously, and the religion of the conspiracy theorists of the left can't be taken seriously. Nobody is going to take you seriously if you're going to argue that conspiracies of inconceivable complexity worked at 100 percent efficiency, Murphy's Law has been permanently suspended and and that 10,000 co-conspirators are all going to keep their mouths shut.
You conspiracy theorists believe you are opposing imperial power, but what you are doing represents the most profound expression of subordination to imperial power. One is hard pressed to find in any of 9/11 conspiracy theory literature any acceptance of the reality of any independent resistance to U.S. imperialism in the Middle East. They always get turned into puppet patsies of Washington and Jerusalem.
Nelson_2008
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:03 am
You wrote: "What I am interested in is an anti-war movement that can be taken seriously, and the religion of the conspiracy theorists of the left can't be taken seriously."
By simply ignoring any and all facts which do not comport with your narrow minded belief system, you're the one who can't be taken seriously.
You wrote: "Nobody is going to take you seriously if you're going to argue that conspiracies of inconceivable complexity worked at 100 percent efficiency."
I'm not going to argue your strawmen…I suppose you can do what you want with it…knock your socks off.
You wrote: "Murphy's Law has been permanently suspended and and that 10,000 co-conspirators are all going to keep their mouths shut."
That line of "reasoning" has already been thoroughly debunked. (And, BTW, in the sense that millions of people now realize it was an inside job, supported by overwhelming, indisputable public domain evidence, the only thing they got away with (so far) is using sheer political power and treason at the highest levels of government to prevent accountability.
Nelson_2008
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:06 am
You wrote: "You conspiracy theorists believe you are opposing imperial power, but what you are doing represents the most profound expression of subordination to imperial power. One is hard pressed to find in any of 9/11 conspiracy theory literature any acceptance of the reality of any independent resistance to U.S. imperialism in the Middle East. They always get turned into puppet patsies of Washington and Jerusalem. "
LOL! As if you were not a "conspiracy theorist" yourself! Sorry, but reality is what it is whether you personally like it or not.
At issue here are two competing conspiracy theories: the official kosher version of what happened, which you support, and the theory that it was an inside job. The question is: Which conspiracy theory is best supported by the known facts?
The difference between us is that, unlike the conspiracy theory you blindly advocate, the conspiracy theory I advocate is overwhelmingly supported by facts, and reasonable inferences made therefrom.