Liberty and the Tehran Spring
The Iranian people: between Washington and Ahmadinejad, or a rock and a hard place
During the Cold War, foreign policy issues were framed in binary terms: the U.S. versus the Soviet Union. This was the great struggle of the last half of the 20th century, and the question was: Which side are you on? Today, however, the context is quite different. We live, or so we’re told, in an increasingly multipolar world, one in which a lone superpower – the U.S. – confronts a wide range of challenges, the most serious of which are internal.
There has been an attempt, after 9/11, to refit the old Cold War paradigm into a new package, with radical Islamism taking the place of international communism, yet this has never been very convincing. Communism was a universalist creed, while the Islamists appeal only to those who are already devotees to one degree or another.
Yet people hold on to old perspectives even as the basis for them slips away. The Cold War had such a hold on our political consciousness for so long that it left its imprint rather deeply embedded – and not only on the Cold Warriors, but also on their opponents. Just as the old-style anti-Communist conservatives of the past simply drew on their old perspectives to forge a view of radical Islamism as an international conspiracy designed to subjugate the Western world in the chains of "dhimmitude," so their ideological opposite numbers – most but not all on the Left – continued to think in the same old way, long after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the implosion of the Soviet empire.
An example of the latter began to rear its head during the Kosovo war, when some opponents of U.S. intervention defended Slobodan Milosevic, the Serbian strongman, even against the majority of his own people. When the Milosevic crowd falsified election results and the opposition parties mounted mass protests, these anti-interventionists branded the whole anti-Milosevic movement a CIA-inspired plot to bring the former Yugoslavia into the American empire. Some, no doubt, were ideologically sympathetic to Slobo’s thuggish version of state socialism: others, although they didn’t like the thuggery, nonetheless refrained from criticizing Milosevic or siding with the democratic opposition for fear of giving aid and comfort to U.S. imperialism.
On the other hand, this writer took a more nuanced position. Yes, U.S. intervention in the former Yugoslavia was a Bad Thing, and, yes, the U.S. was involved in the movement to bring down the Serbian strongman, but, no, that didn’t mean the sizable constituency of anti-Milosevic Serbians were "tools of U.S. imperialism," as the more strident leftist types characterized them. They had a legitimate beef with the regime, and they wanted their freedom. Leftist and other apologists for Milosevic, however, didn’t see it that way. They took a reflexively anti-U.S. position: if the U.S. government was on one side of the barricades, they were going to be on the other side.
Yet reality evades the neat categories laid out by ideologues of all stripes. The fact was that Milosevic was leading his nation to ruin, and millions of Serbs rose up and demanded his ouster. Were they all "fifth columnists," as one particularly nutty Milosevic supporter put it, siding with those who had bombed their country and ripped Kosovo from Yugoslavia’s bleeding carcass? While there were no doubt a cadre of dedicated U.S. agents, they could wield no real influence unless the great mass of people decided to act on genuine grievances. Yet facts can barely penetrate the ideological armor of such people, and they brushed Milosevic’s repressive actions aside as if they were merely a bothersome fly – easy to do, by the way, if you’re sitting a couple of thousand miles away tapping on your computer keyboard.
I had a number of exchanges with these writers, including one of our own columnists, the brilliant George Szamuely, who, quite aside from opposing U.S. intervention abroad, valorized each and every tinpot dictator who stood up to Washington, especially Milosevic. The mass of demonstrators demanding that Milosevic step down and supporting Vojislav Kostunica were disdained by Szamuely as "traitors," and their American defenders were derided as "parrots." In response, I wrote:
"News reports showed photos of ‘at least 200,000′ people jamming the streets of Belgrade – were they all Madeleine Albright and Robin Cook replicants? That is precisely the line taken by the shrinking circle of neo-communists who make up Milosevic’s Praetorian Guard and their minuscule far-left cheering section around the world: Kostunica and the 52 percent-plus who voted for him are all ‘traitors’ who have lined their pockets with Western dollars and sold out to the CIA-NED-George Soros Conspiracy. This ‘analysis’ involves a kind of self-induced blindness, what Orwell called ‘doublethink,’ a mental technique that involves blanking out whatever facts contradict dogma: in this case, what Szamuely is blanking out is the sight of over 200,000 exuberant Serbs celebrating their rightful victory. He just doesn’t see it. Unfortunately for him, the rest of us do – and this is the thankless task of the propagandist, who is forced to make himself look more than a little foolish, on occasion, in the interests of upholding the party line."
This is precisely how a small but vocal number of U.S. anti-interventionists are reacting to the sight of hundreds of thousands of Iranians putting their lives on the line for a greater measure of liberty. If Iran is being threatened by the U.S. government, then the regime must be unconditionally defended, no matter how bloody the repression. It is Szamuely redux, and it is wrong, both factually and morally.
It is wrong factually because U.S. government aid does not necessarily mean U.S. government control: the Americans think they can buy anyone and everyone, from Central Europe to Afghanistan, but these people are taking their money and laughing at the gullible Yankees all the way to the bank.
More importantly, these analysts are assuming a degree of competence on the part of the U.S. government that is simply not realistic: they posit a tight network of Washington-controlled drones programmed to do the CIA’s bidding, but it doesn’t work out that way. Instead, the U.S. throws money and resources at influencing public opinion in far distant lands of which our "national security" bureaucrats know little and care even less. Their efforts, more often than not, do more harm to the U.S. cause than good. Why assume our government is any better at exporting democracy than it is at delivering the mail or running the auto industry? U.S. "democracy promotion" abroad is nothing but a joke, albeit an expensive one.
The reflexive response against the Iranian "spring" on the part of people like Flynt and Hillary Leverett, Paul Craig Roberts, and others is representative of the "old thinking," the Cold War paradigm that forced everyone into one of two camps. Like the two-party system in the U.S., this greatly restricted the range of permissible thought, particularly among the elites, and subjected deviationists from either side to charges of being a "fifth column." All critics of America’s aggressive foreign policy were either "Communists" or else "fellow-travelers." And, on the other side, all critics of Soviet repression were "objectively" on the side of U.S. imperialism, if not bought-and-paid-for CIA agents.
Some on the Left tried to imagine the possibility of what they called a "Third Camp," a hope given expression in the slogan "Neither Washington nor Moscow," but this fell apart under the tremendous pressure of events, and most of the Third Campists ended up as apologists for U.S. aggression. Max Shachtman, the dissident Trotskyist, is the exemplar of this tendency. Shachtman started out by saying that he would grow hair on the palms of his hands sooner than he’d ever support U.S. imperialism, and he wound up supporting the Vietnam War and cheering on the Bay of Pigs invasion. His intellectual legatees are today’s neoconservatives.
Yet now that the pressure to choose sides in a global Great Game is gone – now that the universalist credo of the West has come to represent modernity itself, and has no serious ideological competitor – the old thought patterns refuse to give way. Still, we must take a side: critics of the Americans’ crazed response to 9/11 were accused by, for example, Andrew Sullivan of being sympathetic to Osama bin Laden. George W. Bush gave the most succinct, unforgiving expression of the post-9/11 political orthodoxy: you are "either with us, or with the terrorists." No Third Camp there.
Yet human beings have a way of defying these categorical imperatives and going their own ways – which is precisely what happened in Serbia, where a democratic yet hardly pro-NATO government took power in the wake of Milosevic’s fall. In Iran today something quite similar is happening. Encircled by the U.S. military – in Iraq and further East – Iran is undergoing an internal convulsion that has little if anything to do with the U.S. Rather than a CIA-engineered attempt at regime-change, what is occurring is a split in the Iranian political elite. What’s more, the dissident forces are being led by a man whose anti-U.S. credentials, so to speak, are impeccable. After all, Mir Hossein Mousavi, as CQ’s Jeff Stein points out, "may yet turn out to be the avatar of Iranian democracy, but three decades ago Mir-Hossein Mousavi was waging a terrorist war on the United States that included bloody attacks on the U.S. embassy and Marine Corps barracks in Beirut. Mousavi, prime minister for most of the 1980s, personally selected his point man for the Beirut terror campaign, Ali Akbar Mohtashemi-pur, and dispatched him to Damascus as Iran’s ambassador, according to former CIA and military officials."
Those hundreds of thousands who filled the streets of Tehran would in all likelihood oppose Iran dropping its nuclear energy program and appeasing the West just as vehemently as they oppose the gruesome depredations of their own government.
In the post-Cold War world there is room for a Third Camp, and a Fourth: indeed, they are popping up all over. It’s too bad some people are wearing such thick ideological blinders that they can’t see what is right in front of their noses.
The U.S. government has long ago ceased to represent the forces of freedom in the world, but that doesn’t mean the glorious history of this country as the avatar of freedom is or can be erased. The glow of what was once a light unto the world lingers yet, ironically stronger the further away it is geographically and temporally. To those of us who seek to relight the torch of freedom in the U.S., it is imperative that we balance the legitimate impulse on the part of foreign peoples to gain a greater measure of freedom with the imperatives of opposing U.S. government intervention.
And, yes, I do mean rhetorical as well as military and financial intervention, especially in the case of the Iranian events. Presidential palavering does nothing to concretely aid the Iranians being beaten in the streets, and, as we have seen, it has been just a cover for Obama to back away from his campaign promises to negotiate in a meaningful way with Tehran.
People all over the world are drawn to the U.S. as "a shining city on a hill," as Ronald Reagan so eloquently put it – as a moth to a flame. For that one can hardly blame them. U.S. libertarians, too are drawn to this sort of imagery, even if what we see today are just the ruins of a once magnificent metropolis.
Yet the U.S. government today is the greatest obstacle to the worldwide freedom movement, not its ally: any groups or media outlets it controls are merely extensions of U.S. foreign policy, subject to its machinations and sudden policy reversals, and ultimately fated to betray the cause of human liberty. We do that cause no favors by supporting Washington in its efforts, yet by disdaining the genuine impulse of peoples everywhere to be free, we commit a moral crime.
One wonders what sort of evidence would convince the Iranian regime’s anti-interventionist defenders that the Ahmadinejad camp engaged in massive election fraud. One also wonders why they have failed to take full advantage of the Iranian surge in the context of the debate over U.S. policy options regarding Iran. After all, before we were treated to a portrayal of Iranian society as essentially totalitarian, where fanatic mullahs decreed the death penalty for ordinary crimes and no variety of opinion existed. Yet the Tehran spring, however brief, has proven otherwise: Iran is not an ideological and political monolith, and the government is itself divided into various wings, reformist and hard-line, contending for power. Opponents of diplomatic engagement with Tehran have claimed that there is no one to talk to, but if Mousavi and his followers win out, or even fight the hard-liners to a standstill, what will they say, then?
Read more by Justin Raimondo
- The Orange Revolution, Peeled – February 7th, 2010
- Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell — Don’t Go – February 4th, 2010
- Who Was That Well-Dressed Man? – February 2nd, 2010
- Will the Dragon Awake? – January 31st, 2010
- The State of the Empire – January 28th, 2010





jackbootstate
June 29th, 2009 at 10:12 am
I'm against U.S. aggression against Iran, therefore, I must be a supporter of theocracy in Iran. That's the intellectual level of your argument here Justin.
Whether there was election fraud in Iran or not, it can't be used to justify U.S. aggression against Iran. The organized violence of the state in a war of aggression is the supreme crime against humanity that trumps all others, and that includes all the crimes of the state internal to the country it rules over. Nuremberg, Nuremberg, Nuremberg. That's the issue here, not the internal politics of Iran.
Wolfgang9
June 29th, 2009 at 10:24 am
I must wonder more and more who brain washed you.
Not long ago I was enjoying reading your postings and now I must realize
that something must have happened. Did the CIA pay?
Sorry, Wolfgang
Geo1671
June 29th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Reminder to Justin:
"early June 2008, Justin Raimondo of Antiwar wrote, "Obama, with his peace overtures [to Iran], serves as the smiley-face mask for some pretty loathsome activities. The U.S. government claims to be fighting terrorism, yet is sponsoring groups that plant bombs in mosques, kidnap tourists as well as Iranian policemen, and fund their activities with drug-running in addition to covert subsidies courtesy of the U.S. taxpayers." He continues,
"What’s going on in Iran today – a sustained campaign of terrorism directed against civilians and government installations alike – is proof positive that nothing has really changed much in Washington, as far as U.S. policy toward Iran is concerned. We are on a collision course with Tehran, and both sides know it. Obama’s public "reaching out" to the Iranians is a fraud of epic proportions. While it’s true that our covert terrorist attacks on Iran were initiated under the Bush regime, under Obama we’re seeing no letup in these sorts of incidents; if anything, they’ve increased in frequency and severity."
Question: Why the turn around?
Mari0s
June 29th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
I'm still wondered, and little bit surprised, just little bit, about the miraculous transformation of Justin Raimondo ! From an respected anti war activist he became mainstream propaganda media apologist .What a contradiction! And first : "siding with those who had bombed their country and ripped Kosovo from Yugoslavia’s bleeding carcass?" Ripped Kosovo from SERBIA Justin, not from Yugoslavia ! Yugoslavia already was ripped, assaulted and violated big time. Now about "a shining city on a hill, read little bit Noam Chomsky about it Justin. It is instructive. And about, again, …hat the Ahmadinejad camp engaged in massive election fraud,Im still waiting, almost three weeks after the vote, some hard facts, some good proofs, not just suppositions, and like "in the margin" and "even and uneven digits" Justin ! If you want to be a macho men Raimondo, just do it. Please.
hjmaiere
June 29th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
People are frighteningly easy to manipulate. Justin understands this. If Justin is wrong about anything, it's in his estimate of the incompetence of those who set government policy. The goal in Iran as in Iraq before it is to eliminate the country as an *economic* threat. The truth is that U.S. government policy in Iraq has been wildly successful.
Those orchestrating the upcoming conflict with Iran are not at all concerned with the specifics of the election. All that matters is that the issue be as emotionally charged as possible. That's why the protests in Iran received far more press coverage than the far bigger anti-war protests around the world got. That's why the oppression of the people of Iran gets attention and not the oppression of the people of e.g. Saudi Arabia.
The true policy makers don't care where the spark comes from. It's the fire they care about.
Colin Patrick Barth
June 29th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
What? It helps to actually read the argument. The point is that reflexive bipolarity doesn't describe the real world.
Colin Patrick Barth
June 29th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
So, are you suggesting terrorists who kill Iranians like the MEK and Jundallah are the same as Mousavi's campaign or the protesters?
If so, the Iranian regime propagandists should be quite pleased, because that's already been their absurd slur against the protesters, and you're helping them to erase distinctions between any and all critics of the state—all supposed "terrorists," you know.
Sean2009
June 29th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Exactly. It doesn't matter whether Mousavi is "pro-US' or not, but simply whether he is willing to allow his personal ambition to create division and upheaval in Iran that could lead to destabilization, a civil war or a pretext for US involvement. The goal of the US and Israel is to destroy Iran so that it will not be able to resist Israeli and American hegemony, and particularly it will not be able to support Hezbollah in its resistance to Israel's attempts to conquer South Lebanon. The last thing the US and Israel want in Iran is a liberal democracy, "pro-Western" or otherwise. A true liberal democracy will reflect the interests and desires of the Iranian people and will likely be anti-US and opposed to Israeli aggression in the Mideast. Even if it is pro-Western in nature, it is only one election away from becoming anti-Western so the safest course from a neocon standpoint is anything that leads to Iran's becoming a failed state torn apart by ethnic, political and religious divisions like Iraq.
And you can bet your ass the CIA and Mossad is involved in that project.
San Fernando Curt
June 29th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Another dissimilarity between Islam and Communism: Muslims are much more faithful and adherent to their beliefs than Communists. The most-fervent Marxists generally are well-born, upper-class, over-educated gentry in the non-Communist West. I have never met anyonewho lived in any Marxist country, anywhere, who had anything but contempt for this silly gibberish. Ideological support in these nations is always a mile wide and an inch deep, always enforced by the boot-heel. The first chance the populace gets to dump such a system, it does – enthusiastically.
Valerianus
June 29th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
This isn't a matter of describing of the world, nor is it a matter of pounding facts into ideological frameworks. All that really matters from a U.S. standpoint is that the FedGov is engaged in all the nasty stuff that gets other countries bombed, invaded and reconstructed. What happens in Iran is the affair of Iranians, but the West most assuredly has chosen to interfere and meddle. What is genuinely amazing is how so many Westerners, of all outlooks, who are incapable of viewing events in Iran without resorting to familiar – and utterly irrelevant – frames of reference. Tehran Spring? Honestly, what's a person supposed to think of that? The only possible answer is to substitute Iranian tanks for Soviet tanks. Now, how's that for bipolar thinking?
Valerianus
June 29th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Colin, what exactly is your beef with the Iranian government?
Valerianus
June 29th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
No one is catcalling here but you. No one is denying that there is a split in the Iranian governing elite. But, there most assuredly is a CIA and Mossad effort to move that split along and deepen and widen it as much as possible. It is subversion on a large scale, playing upon the Iranian exile community, Westernized Iranian nouveau riche and the differences between individual Iranian politicians. But, since you bring up the issue of money, you instinctively understand how far people will follow the hand that butters their bread. Keep it up!
Valerianus
June 29th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Excellent exposition. It is ludicrous to believe that all those protesters just came together via a Vulcan mind-meld.
Colin Patrick Barth
June 29th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Once again, it is stunning how many people comment exclusively based on the way they already thought before they even visited the page. Here, without any indication they understand the article they're criticizing. Half the commenters on some of these articles could literally be commenting without seeing more than a few words, judging from their disassociation.
Apparently, a link to Orwell's essay on nationalism should preface every single article.
<a href="http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/e…” target=”_blank”>http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/e…
Justin, this article reminds me again why I contribute, which I suspect the gaggle of catcallers do not. Keep it up!
Mari0s
June 30th, 2009 at 12:50 am
I don't have any problem, my self, to say, high and loud, that I like Ahmadinejad, the same way that I like and support, in my mind and heart, Mossadegh before him, Lumumba, Salvador Allende, Chavez, Ortega, Castro, Hô Chi Minh, and so many others throughout history WHO, at theirs best, at list tried to be independents, with the real significance of that word; to do what they toughed to be the best for theirs peoples, not to follow the ORDERS from the IMPERIAL PLANETARCHS of the moment, to resist submission. To be accountable, just to their people. To do that necessitates conviction and courage, of course, and for that they paid a heavy price, and that is what inspires us and billions around the world. Everybody inspires to be the master in it owns place and nobody likes to be the servant to somebody else. It is almost as good as to say " I had a dream, or what ?" You don’t need for that to be ANTI to somebody else specifically, because, to be independent and free, free from somebody else’s will, it is natural, Period.
Sean2009
June 29th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
It seems that in your postings on the Iranian election, you consistently fall into the same pattern of black and white, "with us or against us" thinking you accuse your leftist strawmen of having.
Firstly, opposition to US aggression against Iran does not equal support for Ahmadinejad. Ditto for Serbia and Milosevic. This is Bushian groupthink and scarcely warrants a response.
The fact is, there was an election is Iran and Ahmadinjead appears to have won it resoundingly. That Mousavi and his supporters and the Western propaganda outlets have claimed otherwise is not in doubt, but so far, they have not offered a shred of reasonably convincing proof that election fraud occurred. Until they do, I have to assume that the election in Iran represents the will of the majority, and that Ahmadinejad is the legitimate president of Iran. I do not believe that a minority should be able to gratuitously claim election fraud, take to the streets in protest and in riots, and then demand that the results of an election be annulled and their candidate be installed by fiat. I would not support such a thing in my own country, so why should I support it in Iran? This has nothing to do with supporting Ahmadinejad, and everything to do with supporting the democratic process.
Now if Mosuavi's people come up with irrefutable proof that the election was stolen, then I will change my mind. You ask what standard of proof is necessary to establish election fraud? The same as in any other criminal matter: proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The proof should also not only establish that election vote rigging occurred, but also the parties responsible, as it is quite possible Mousavi's people or elements within the government opposed to Ahmadinejad would stuff ballots to discredit Ahmadinejad.
As for CIA involvement, the simple fact is hundreds of thousands of Mousavi supporters took to the streets on nothing more than the mere assertion of election fraud. Whether election fraud is a fact or a CIA generated lie is irrelevant, as the end result would have been the same. We have seen in the various color revolutions where US involvement was not in doubt just how easy it is to manipulate people into taking to the streets in support of "democracy" with bullshit accusations of election fraud only to end up with a US-backed stooge in power suppressing their liberties, like Saakashvilli .
Demonstrations do not spontaneously coalsece in a particular spot with thousands of people randomly showing up with identical "where's my vote" signs in English or Neda posters. These things have to be organized by someone, and someone has to get the word out as well as print and distribute all those identical signs we were seeing at protests. There is after all a reason the State Dept., Soros, NED and others train foreign students and activists in the techniques of using modern communications and social networking to organize protests and resistance, as these things do not happen by magic and the skills to organize them are not something anyone with a keyboard possesses. All of this takes planning, organization and skill and a lot of it takes money as well. Now this doesn't prove involvement by the CIA, but it does prove that there is an organized effort behind the demonstrations and that organizational effort could as easily be done by the CIA and parties working for it as by Mousavi and his people. It is quite possible that it is the result of both.
jackbootstate
June 30th, 2009 at 3:08 am
"The fact was that Milosevic was leading his nation to ruin…"
Kind of like the way Ignacy Mościcki, President of Poland circa 1939 led his nation to ruin….
….or the way the leaders of the Native America nations, Mexico, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Haiti, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Grenada, Panama, and Iraq all led their nations to ruin while they were being destroyed by Washington.
The U.S. and its European allies, most notably Germany, deliberately destroyed Yugoslavia. Period. We know this and blaming the leader a nation the U.S. destroyed is simply wrong headed. I would like to see the people who take lines like this try to run a government the U.S. is intending to destroy and see if they can do a better job. It's very easy to be a critic of the governments of the countries the U.S. is campaigning to destroy from behind the same military that is campaigning to destroy the government being criticized.
The sub headline for the column reads:
"The Iranian people: between Washington and Ahmadinejad, or a rock and a hard place"
And what about those Iranians who voted for Ahmadinejad? What part of Iran is Justin from and what gives him the right to declare Ahmadinejad supporters non-Iranians? Why don't Iranians have as much right to vote for Ahmadinejad as they do for his opponents, and why is somebody who is purportedly "anti-war" framing a column in such a pro imperialist manner? This is exactly the same kind of pro-imperialists apologetics used by defenders of U.S. aggression in Vietnam. The NLF, which happened to have the support of the majority of the people of South Vietnam, were not Vietnamese in the rhetoric of the apologists for U.S. Vietnam policy. They were outside "invaders", and the Kennedy liberals were merely "defending" this "foreign" aggression. It's similar to Bush administration officials complaining about "foreign" fighters in Iraq, as if American soldier aren't representatives of a foreign occupying power.
sgirl00
June 30th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
You really got this one wrong, Justin.
It is never OK to meddle in another country's business. I'll say few things about Serbia and Milosevic.
As bad as Milosevic was, he was not worse then the today's leadership in Serbia. What caused people to go out on the streets to topple Milosevic was the hope that after ten years of severe economic sanctions, the US and the West will leave Serbia alone. Again, the sanctions, just like in case of Iran, is one way for the US to meddle and overthrow foreign regimes. And Serbia's was one of the color revolutions supported by Soros, which Soros is openly proud of.
The result of the color revolutions is not what people had hoped for. Serbs have now the US and West-supported leadership, they sold out literally everything in Serbia to Western companies and banks. The scenario that probably awaits Iran. So, Justin, it does matter whether the revolution is genuine or CIA-supported. In genuine revolutions people get government that works for the people, while in the CIA-caused revolutions you get a regime loyal to the foreign interests.
There was brief hope in Serbia when Kostunica came to power after Milosevic, but that was just ploy to deceive people (Zoran Djindjic was quoated several times saying that it was better that Kostunica heads the country, because people trust him more). Not before long, Kostunica was made irrelevant (the US ambassador was always very critical of him, called him a nationalist; note that anyone who puts the interests of the country first is always called nationalist).
jackbootstate
June 30th, 2009 at 6:09 am
"One wonders what sort of evidence would convince the Iranian regime’s anti-interventionist defenders that the Ahmadinejad camp engaged in massive election fraud. …"
…states Justin in the fashion of an interventionist demagogue at the end of his column, as if this issue has some moral relevance for an American. Who isn't against election fraud?
If I wanted to hear a pro-war talking points memo, then I can just call up one of my pro-war relatives, or attend a pro war rally when the time for Washington's assault on Iran comes.
Americans have no business lecturing other countries about free and fair elections given what a rigged farce our national elections have become. To be a candidate for president you have to be a member of one of two parties and then bend over while accepting what is rapidly approaching the neighborhood of $1 billion in bribe money, "campaign contributions". Meanwhile, virtually every election for the Congress is an uncompetitive jerrymandered affair, with obscene amounts of campaign bribe money being taken in every election cycle.
Look at your own faults, rather than pointing out the faults of others. Especially when you are a citizen of the nation with the most powerful and aggressive military in world history, which happens to be threatening the country you are criticizing with aggression.
juneconsley
June 30th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Justin should address these anonalies — (1) why were all these Farsi speaking Iranians carrying English language signs? (2) Do only Mousavi or opposition supporters have the use of twittter instruments and Ahmadinejad supporters do not have access to them? From US media reports, only Mousavi supporters were twittering — nothing heard from Ahmadinejad supporters? (3) Did all the thousands of Mousavi supporters just spontaneously go into the same area to claim their vote had been stolen? AND — (4) To whom and how were the $400 million US tax dollars appropriated for regime change in Iran used? All US citizens should have answers to the inquiries.
Djosha
June 30th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Justin got it right, down to the details. I am from Serbia, and I second his take on fall of Milosevic 100%.
Truth is that Serbian people were mad with Milosevic at the time: why getting bombed, if at the end we sign capitulation? If we go to war, it is to win, to fight or at least draw; we could have signed capitulation without bombing, as it is? (Milosevic signed agreement when Serbs were more united and ready to resist more than ever before).
Milosevic was answering that we managed to sign the document (UN resolution —-) that is granting Serbian territorial integrity – except all of us knew that resolutions are nothing to US and NATO, we knew that they don´t respect their word and promise,(they attacked us in violation of their own charter, what to say more) ,and that the fact of letting them into Kosovo was final separation of this part of Serbian territory from Serbia.
Only for that, Milosevic was doomed. Not to mention his other sins (inflation, many scandals that you don´t know, etc..)
So, uprising against Milosevic was really genuine; it was supported by CIA & etc., but this doesn´t mean it was totally made and controlled from outside. They were riding on the wave, so to say.
People, take down your spectacles, look at the world as it is, nothing is black-white.
Kudos to you, Justin, for understanding and for your incredibly good style of writing: concise, forceful, clear. They should ask you to write books on writing English, we strangers should learn from the best .
Please, Justin, go on and continue. You are read not only in US.
Colin Patrick Barth
June 30th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
I didn't rig any elections. I have no control over them. Nor have I ever had any influence with the US military. How are the US government's faults mine, again? Because I was born in America? What an absurdly brainwashed collectivist point of view.
Listen, I will feel free to lecture anyone, anytime who suppresses the free exercise of human life anywhere on this earth, which certainly includes Iran; I can see the suppression of protests on tapes, and hear eyewitness accounts. It certainly is useful to the status quo if people stay mentally confined within state borders, but I refuse to play into that.
Colin Patrick Barth
June 30th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Suppressing individual freedom in many ways. Same "beef" I have with the rulers of every nation-state. The problem is more considerable there than in many other places, though.
Colin Patrick Barth
June 30th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
People who are "accountable" to people don't murder and terrorize their critics or imprison dissidents, like some of those you mention. They give them a free choice between their idea and someone else's, and if it goes against them they accept that.
Colin Patrick Barth
June 30th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Welcome to the internet, an international self-organizing complex system. Do you think some plot induces people to circulate LOL cats too?
1) Americans aren't the only people who know English, and furthermore people often try to get noticed abroad by using English.
2) Ahmadinejad supporters will hardly be smuggling information about crackdowns out, or need to organize via twitter. Their side has official organs to communicate with. If the press wants to hear their version, they can watch Iranian state TV.
3) They self-organized by responding to circulated messages. Same way Ron Paul supporters decided to show up at rallies, and collect many millions of dollars. What's they mystery here?
4) MEK and Jundallah, in part. Are we supposed to think Iranian reformers are especially disloyal and easily bought off in large numbers to do something they wouldn't do otherwise? Iranians have one of the proudest traditions of national feeling on earth.
Colin Patrick Barth
June 30th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
"Firstly, opposition to US aggression against Iran does not equal support for Ahmadinejad. Ditto for Serbia and Milosevic. This is Bushian groupthink and scarcely warrants a response."
Justin is talking about the people who do equate these things. I think his column was perfectly clear. And perfectly relevant, given the number of people (commenting on this very website) who make excuses for tyranny because it's not American tyranny.
"they have not offered a shred of reasonably convincing proof that election fraud occurred"
The fact that many millions of ballots were supposedly accounted in a few hours doesn't count? Magical. Now that was a "divinely inspired result" without an electronic vote-counting system.
"the simple fact is hundreds of thousands of Mousavi supporters took to the streets on nothing more than the mere assertion of election fraud"
And a history of anger against a tyrannical government, which hasn't gone away just because there are fewer political killings than there were in the late 80s. That anger includes suspicion of prior vote-tampering a few years back. As well as reform candidates being barred from running in a previous election. All polls agree the majority of Iranians want significant reforms, and the regime has been blocking this from happening for many years in several different ways. They elected M. Khatami in a landslide, twice, to see reform happen and the hardline clerics just vetoed what they didn't like.
Serbia » Liberty and the Tehran Spring by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com
June 30th, 2009 at 10:55 am
[...] Liberty and the Tehran Spring by Justin Raimondo — Antiwar.comYet human beings have a way of defying these categorical imperatives and going their own ways – which is precisely what happened in Serbia, where a democratic yet hardly pro-NATO government took power in the wake of Milosevic’s fall. … [...]
Mari0s
June 30th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Some of those I mention, dear Colin Patrick Barth, conducted revolutions and real revolutions are , by definition and nature, violent, like the Glorious American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the Great Iranian Revolution and so on. Said that, to terrorize their critics or imprison dissidents or even kill opponents is part of the game, like the Americans did so well and cruel during the American Revolution. The real answer to a revolution is a contra- revolution but, in the case, the counter- revolution HAS to succeed imperatively. Otherwise, the Execution squad, the firing squad has to work overtime, around the clock. That is the way things work in real live sir.
Mari0s
June 30th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Some of those I mention, dear Colin Patrick Barth, conducted revolutions and real revolutions are , by definition and nature, violent, like the Glorious American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the Great Iranian Revolution and so on. Said that, to terrorize their critics or imprison dissidents or even kill opponents is part of the game, like the Americans did so well and cruel during the American Revolution and during the American Civil War The real answer to a revolution is a contra- revolution but, in the case, the counter- revolution HAS to succeed imperatively. Otherwise, the Execution squad, the firing squad has to work overtime, around the clock. That is the way things work in real live sir.
jackbootstate
June 30th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
"What an absurdly brainwashed collectivist point of view."
Blah, blah, blah. Don't avoid the issue with boiler plate libertarian rhetoric.
How would you be able to have more influence over events in Iran, than, say, at your local city council? You don't live there. You don't speak the language. All right, it's a repressive Islam theocracy. It takes no moral courage for an American to denounce a repressive government somewhere else, especially when it is an official enemy of Washington. It can often take a lot of courage to try to confront injustice that is happening right in front of you face in your own community. You can do something about it. And can do it while enjoying a level of security that Iranians don't have right now. It's their cities and communities that are being targeted for military destruction by Washington, not ours.
Daily Briefing — 29th-30th June 2009 « Little Alex in Wonderland
June 30th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
[...] Justin Raimondo displays the anarchic reality of the current world order well, within the framework of the Iran election. Whether that was his intention with this article or not (AntiWar.com) [...]
Johan_
July 1st, 2009 at 1:48 am
One of the worst articles ever published on antiwar.com .
Justin Raimondo Misrepresents Me on U.S. Interference in Iran | Between the Lines
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:50 am
[...] Raimondo at Antiwar.com criticizes me</a> along with Flynt"; Justin Raimondo at Antiwar.com criticizes me along with Flynt Leverett, Hillary Mann Leverett, and Paul Craig Roberts for suggesting the [...]